[WRC] Rallye Monte Carlo 2024

[Rallyper]

Working here atm (11.09)

[EstWRC]

Tanak wrenching as usual

What you mean by that?

[Kras]

Works now

[seb_sh]

works here too

I liked how they showed the pre stage preparation, good way to get into the atmosphere.

[Kras]

What you mean by that?

He spends more time fixing/adjusting his car than other drivers

[meh]

He spends more time fixing/adjusting his car than other drivers

Do you have ANY argumentation to say this kind of stuff? Just stop throwing some *** out as a fact, if it is just your opinion or assumption of something.

[deephouse]

He spends more time fixing/adjusting his car than other drivers

maybe he is doing that by team orders, to test different setups for other two drivers.

Meanwhile, that RallyTV service is awful. They need to step up and fix all major issues, otherwise we will stop paying for that. Cast doesn't even work, I mean app does crash all the time, not working at all. Slow and difficult to find, sometimes it just jump on old content automaticaly. I don't know why is this still the issue in 2024, since introduction of AllLive thing.

[Kras]

Do you have ANY argumentation to say this kind of stuff? Just stop throwing some *** out as a fact, if it is just your opinion or assumption of something.

Its anecdotal. Just from what i've seen on broadcasts. It's not like it's a bad thing

[RS]

Seems Toyota Rally2 car hasn´t got the power... does anyone have data of engine?


This was my impression from the testing videos, it doesn't have the 'violence' of the Skoda engine. They claimed the torque is good, but maybe it doesn't come as low or as wide spread as the other cars.

Sweden could be better with fewer slow corners, and they certainly have the right drivers for there.

TGR did have a Fabia RS in their workshop and did benchmark testing so i can't imagine it's too far off.

[jonkka]

Its anecdotal. Just from what i've seen on broadcasts. It's not like it's a bad thing

Don't pay attention - some fans are very touchy if you comment their favourite driver in anything but ideal way.

[Kras]

This was my impression from the testing videos, it doesn't have the 'violence' of the Skoda engine. They claimed the torque is good, but maybe it doesn't come as low or as wide spread as the other cars.

Sweden could be better with fewer slow corners, and they certainly have the right drivers for there.

TGR did have a Fabia RS in their workshop and did benchmark testing so i can't imagine it's too far off.

I'm assuming they have same restrictor and same displacement as other. With a 1 cylinder deficit i doubt it revs as quickly. Maybe someone more knowlegable could expand on this

[meh]

Don't pay attention - some fans are very touchy if you comment their favourite driver in anything but ideal way.

No, it's not about who was the driver or the situation to comment, it's just throwing out opinions and assumptions as facts with the tone "I know it".

But yes, I'm aware that there is the close button in the browser.

[CeskyOndra]

Guys you are finnish and estonian, aren't you? :D

[Tauri_J]

maybe he is doing that by team orders, to test different setups for other two drivers.

Meanwhile, that RallyTV service is awful. They need to step up and fix all major issues, otherwise we will stop paying for that. Cast doesn't even work, I mean app does crash all the time, not working at all. Slow and difficult to find, sometimes it just jump on old content automaticaly. I don't know why is this still the issue in 2024, since introduction of AllLive thing.

Well I decided not to pay anymore. They just cant fix their product

[Sulland]

Impressed with Matteo Chatillion in a Renailt rally3, going straight from a Rally5 and leading on Cerny. Well done of the youngster!
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/223309-matteo-chatillon/

[RS]

Meanwhile, that RallyTV service is awful. They need to step up and fix all major issues, otherwise we will stop paying for that. Cast doesn't even work, I mean app does crash all the time, not working at all. Slow and difficult to find, sometimes it just jump on old content automaticaly. I don't know why is this still the issue in 2024, since introduction of AllLive thing.

I dropped it for this year and took TNT Sport instead, partly for this reason. Reading your comments i'm glad i did.

[satnav]

I dropped it for this year and took TNT Sport instead, partly for this reason. Reading your comments i'm glad i did.

Same here

[Negaiss]

I'm kinda impressed with munster so far. Especially compared to mikkelsen. Let's hope he can keep it on the road.

Same for me. I was thinking Munster will be nowhere near other Rally1 drivers.

[EstWRC]

Great time for Tänak with the issues still

[CeskyOndra]

Great time for Tänak with the issues still

I dont think he has some issues, he is doing well

[meh]

Munster, and also Taka are driving well, but you should not forget the road position advantage. It's also can be reason why Evans losing more and more compared to Neuville and Ogier.

[Rallyper]

Solberg retires for today...

[Rallyper]

Solberg retires for today...

Edit: Two punctures and one spare...

[EstWRC]

I dont think he has some issues, he is doing well

So you’re saying he is lying?

A stage win for Tänak over two years in Monte Carlo shared with Neuville

[meh]

Evans did not have hybrid in the last stage.

[seb_sh]

Evans with no hyrid this morning, managed the situation quite well in my opionion.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Neuville in typical fight-back mode this afternoon.


If it continues tomorrow, then we have 3-way battle for the win.

Neuville has more than joined the battle. A great run of times by him and now properly in the lead.

[EstWRC]

Evans with no hyrid this morning, managed the situation quite well in my opionion.

Some would say here he is lying

But very nicely managed indeed. We will have a great battle afternoon for the win

[meh]

Some would say here he is lying

Relax :) Tänak just says out everything as issues when things are not ideal. If there was some big issue, he could not fight for a stage win.

[Lead]

Nice battles both in rally1 and rally2

[dimviii]

Solberg retires for today...

Edit: Two punctures and one spare...

The only one with one spare....

[denkimi]

So you’re saying he is lying?

A stage win for Tänak over two years in Monte Carlo shared with Neuville
I would say it's messing with the competition. Maybe he's not telling the truth, but i wouldn't call that lying.

[RS]

Pajari quick on splits finally.

[Morte66]

From watching the onboards, I think Neuville has been pushing a little harder and taking a bit more risk than Evans. He had the little half-spin, but no big off.

At the start this morning Neuville was a little behind, but he'd saved his tyres more. So that seemed very evenly matched, hard to say who would finish first.

So far today Evans has dropped off a bit, probably partly from the running order change and partly from his technical problems.

[EstWRC]

Relax :) Tänak just says out everything as issues when things are not ideal. If there was some big issue, he could not fight for a stage win.

The issue mustn’t be big, it can cost also 2-5 seconds to you which can decide a lot.

Doesn’t mean he can’t drive fast still

[meh]

Pajari quick on splits finally.

a phone ringing...
"... hello?"
"moi Sami, Jari here... you know... we have clients canceling their orders for new car... can you please show some faster times".

[EstWRC]

Finally a decent time from Pajari!

Great to see

[Morte66]

Finally a decent time from Pajari!

Great to see

I wonder if he'll decide to go for it on that stage this afternoon.

[Integrale]

I would say it's messing with the competition. Maybe he's not telling the truth, but i wouldn't call that lying.
Did you guys ever had a mic shoved into your face? Most people start talking. The thing that's on their mind will come out first. It doesn't matter if it results in big time loss or not.

It's actually a journalism trick to leave the mic there after the interviewee 'finished'. People have the tendancy to keep talking if the mic is there, they feel obliged.

Neuville does this as well. The pronunciation issues in the last stage between him and Martijn are something that is best left between them, I would've thought. But we know Neuville starts blabbering at stage ends and it's also nice to know what's on his mind. 😁

[meh]

Did you guys ever had a mic shoved into your face?

Put a lot of adrenaline into the context, just drive over the finish line and those are the first seconds to think about the finished stage. It's not some calm, calculated and PR-department validated text that comes out there.

I'm glad we have those interviews.

[Jarek Z]

It's good to see Seb Loeb enjoying the rally at 1:41 :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6zEwBKVQsE&t=101s

[focus206]

Great morning by Neuville, he has to keep it on the road now though. Yesterday he was saying he would like to swap back to the old differential (that was changed because of gearbox leak) in service today... I'm not sure it's a risk worth taking.

[Integrale]

So if Neuville wins 'the rally' this evening with 0.1 seconds ahead of Ogier. Then we got robbed from an epic fight, because why would Neuville risk it all tomorrow? Or am I missing something?

Following rallysport for 30 years now and couldn't explain the tactics to someone who's new to the sport.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So Evans Toyota with no hybrid... Hyundai had their diff and mapping faults.

M-Sport absolutely perfect. :D

[Mirek]

I have resigned on the scoring system. I simply ignore it and just plan to follow the events as singular ones. For me the scoring system is complete BS.

[Mirek]

Munster stuck in a wooden barrier. I fear the staeg will be canceled because there are no spectators to help him getting away...

[TypeR]

Munster stuck to armco

[EstWRC]

Please don’t cancel the stage

[jonkka]

So if Neuville wins 'the rally' this evening with 0.1 seconds ahead of Ogier. Then we got robbed from an epic fight, because why would Neuville risk it all tomorrow? Or am I missing something?

If one is only coldly logical and just considers that part-time Ogier isn't a threat in championship race then yes - one wouldn't risk finishing and certain championship points.

But then again - they are competitive animals and the overall Monte Carlo Rally win is very appealing, being the most prestigious rally of the series.

[Eli]

I’m guessing the rest of the crews will get nominal times?

[Mirek]

Please don’t cancel the stage

Yes. This is the best stage of today.

[PLuto]

They normally continue with starting. For me there is no reason for stopping or cancellation the stage.

[EstWRC]

I get terrified when looking Mikkelsen onboards

[TypeR]

Pretty dangerous thing to get the car out of there.. one bad movement, armco breaks and car falls down..
(No seatbelt makes it worse also..)

[KKS]

Munster can attach a tow rope, abd tell the team that Fourmaux stop near him and try to kick of with prepare rope. This was 10-20sec lost and I think m-sport can afford that.

[EstWRC]

Great stage from Mikkelsen at last. On par with Tänak

[er88]

Ogier flying

[Eli]

I’m guessing the rest of the crews will get nominal times?

Thought he was obstructing the road more, my bad.

[er88]

Evans going backwards

[EstWRC]

I have to say the Hyundai livery looks really nice this year

I was torn between Msport and Hyundai but Msport looks kinda “basic” with the white

[CeskyOndra]

It is again Ogier-Neuville Monte battle.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Here comes the Daddy of RMC...

[er88]

Ogier had a mega 2nd split, took 3.2s out of Thierry

[Lead]

Where Evans lost his pace?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hybrid working so strange big time loss for Evans.

[Mirek]

Hybrid working so strange big time loss for Evans.

He said it was working now.

[Kras]

Collosal choke by Evans

[Morte66]

I don't think Evans is coming back from that today. And he hasn't particularly saved tyres for tomorrow.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

He said it was working now.

I know I said it was, as shown by the graphic.

He's no idea why he's lost so much.

[Mirek]

Lopez ten seconds faster than Gryazin now!

[EstWRC]

Evans has gone backwards since Thursday night for some reason.

I think he didn’t win any stage yesterday?

[wyler]

i guess tomorrow nobody will cruise that much. they ll not risk it all, but the target will still be top3 for all. they ll not pass on 12/10 points imho.

[CeskyOndra]

Andrea Adamo said in DirtFish preview that Evans is not that consistent as Neuville and Tanak. He really knows something more.

[CeskyOndra]

Btw, points system seems quite nice to me at the moment. No one is really cruising and we have interesting Sunday ahead.

[Tauri_J]

Where Evans lost his pace?

I Think he got exposed by road position

[CeskyOndra]

I Think he got exposed by road position

He had time to adapt yesterday afternoon for these conditions

[Kras]

I Think he got exposed by road position

I suspect the same. Taka also suddenly finding pace points even more to that conclusion

[EstWRC]

i guess tomorrow nobody will cruise that much. they ll not risk it all, but the target will still be top3 for all. they ll not pass on 12/10 points imho.

Of course nobody won’t. Especially the three title contenders, this year you have to be super consistent and score as many points as possible

[wyler]

Of course nobody won’t. Especially the three title contenders, this year you have to be super consistent and score as many points as possible

agreed. i just don't get this idea that the race will end tonight!!!

[KKS]

agreed. i just don't get this idea that the race will end tonight!!!
It will not.
If you drove linearly both fri&sat and sun - you didn't lose anything.
But if you think u done job in 2 of 3 days and 3rd drove lazy - u got less points. Not be lazy and things are same. Except difference from full 1st place and full 2nd. 8pts at prev.sys and 5pts now

[seb_sh]

Btw, points system seems quite nice to me at the moment. No one is really cruising and we have interesting Sunday ahead.

Nothing to do with the points system, just 3 drivers on similar pace having a good old fashioned fight.

[Tauri_J]

I suspect the same. Taka also suddenly finding pace points even more to that conclusion

Think something else too, he’s really slow

[dupanton]

Such a shame for Munster. Seems like he didn't really listen to his notes, he had it as very dirty ("chantier").

[manthey]

Pepe Lopez special engine ?

Rossel seems disappointed

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good article on the importance of the gravel crews for the rally...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/the-unseen-factor-thats-deciding-wrc-monte/

[Rallyper]

I don't think Evans is coming back from that today. And he hasn't particularly saved tyres for tomorrow.

What´s the upper side of doing that? New points system? Tell me.

[Rallyper]

About RallyTV: They still cover the backfield as I now watch car #70 live from SS12. Isn´t that better compared to last year?

[Myrvold]

Pepe Lopez special engine ?

Rossel seems disappointed

Skoda v Citroën?

[Morte66]

What´s the upper side of doing that? New points system? Tell me.

No upside that I can see, it's bad news for Elfyn.

I don't think he can catch Ogier/Neuville on pace today, given that they have road position and they're fighting each other so they'll push. I think his only hope today is they make a mistake.

And since he doesn't seem to have saved tyres so much, he'll have a harder time tomorrow.

So, I don't think there's an upside. Possibly he had some strategy like winning on Saturday by using the good tyres, but between the road position swap and his hybrid problems, he'll near miss.

[jonkka]

About RallyTV: They still cover the backfield as I now watch car #70 live from SS12. Isn´t that better compared to last year?

Yes - if one is interested in the backfield. My interest is geared only towards top two teams of Toyota and Hyundai, I even struggle having interest for M-Sport.

[PLuto]

Yes - if one is interested in the backfield. My interest is geared only towards top two teams of Toyota and Hyundai, I even struggle having interest for M-Sport.

I am exactly opposite. I always prefer to follow WRC2 and others than top ;)

[deephouse]

What a battle. This is all we all want.

[Rallyper]

Yes - if one is interested in the backfield. My interest is geared only towards top two teams of Toyota and Hyundai, I even struggle having interest for M-Sport.

If I remember correctly many members on this forum wanted broader coverage.

[CeskyOndra]

Now comes the stage where Thierry was quicker in the morning

[Integrale]

Yeah loving this.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Evans can do nothing to get back in the fight. Disappointing.

[EstWRC]

This is super exciting. The next stage suited Hyundais very well in the morning

[PLuto]

Evans can do nothing to get back in the fight. Disappointing.

He is cruising now :D

[TypeR]

700th STAGE WIN for Ogier!


So so sad, this guy doesn't do full season.. :/

[jonkka]

If I remember correctly many members on this forum wanted broader coverage.

Can't comment on that, WRC is dropping rapidly out of my radar and thus I don't frequent here between rallies either nowadays. But if that's true, then situation is an improvement for you that still have the spark.

[deephouse]

nice save from Pepe. almost slid off the road

[AndyRAC]

700th STAGE WIN for Ogier!


So so sad, this guy doesn't do full season.. :/

He's like a bad smell that won't go away........Had his ar5e handed to him when he tried to drive a LMP2 car.......

[deephouse]

He's like a bad smell that won't go away........Had his ar5e handed to him when he tried to drive a LMP2 car.......

He should do a 2025 Dakar in Toyota. They don't have a decent drivers right now there.

[PLuto]

Pepe Lopez special engine ?

Rossel seems disappointed

It has nothing to do about cars, both are good. It is about approach and how much risk you want to take.

[Morte66]

Is that rain on Pajari's windscreen?

[flykas]

700th STAGE WIN for Ogier!

So so sad, this guy doesn't do full season.. :/
While taking the lead with clearly superior drive. Love it! Would be nice to have Ogier back for full seasson, but also would be nice to have more competition overall

[Mirek]

Can't comment on that, WRC is dropping rapidly out of my radar and thus I don't frequent here between rallies either nowadays. But if that's true, then situation is an improvement for you that still have the spark.

It's mainly an important improvement for the competitors and their sponsors.

[deephouse]

Here we go. Last stage. And winner on paper.. #beingsarcastic

[EstWRC]

Mikkelsen onboards look much better this afternoon and it also tells in stage times.

The driving doesn’t seem so forced anymore

[PLuto]

Mikkelsen onboards look much better this afternoon and it also tells in stage times.

The driving doesn’t seem so forced anymore

For me it looked like he was so much aggressive in the first stages.

[er88]

While taking the lead with clearly superior drive. Love it! Would be nice to have Ogier back for full seasson, but also would be nice to have more competition overall

The outcome would be another title

[Eli]

Shame we’re not seeing more of the 4-7 minute mark of this stage, looks really pretty with the mountain beside them. A really beautiful stage imho.

[PLuto]

Shame we’re not seeing more of the 4-7 minute mark of this stage, looks really pretty with the mountain beside them. A really beautiful stage imho.

With snow and ice it should be more beautiful ;)

[manthey]

It has nothing to do about cars, both are good. It is about approach and how much risk you want to take.

Rossel had some doubts...

[trykmann]

The outcome would be another title

I wouldn't mind. If he is better than anyone else, then he would deserve it.

[Integrale]

What's the point in showing anything else now than Neuville or Ogier on Rally tv? They should be able to switch from their format in these situations.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nice to hear the hybrid being discussed given it's the point of these Rally1 cars.

[CeskyOndra]

Neuville -2,7s on first split to Seb!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great job by Fourmaux so far.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Superb run Thierry !

[Dontcut]

Even as an estonian, I feel great for Neuville. Good to see such emotions.

[becher]

Proclaimed dead a thousand times, yet this sport still delivers.

[Rallyest]

I dont get it, by listening to commentators, thierry isnt the winner? but we will see it tomorrow? i understood that who is first on saturday night is winner

[EstWRC]

Waiting for dirtfish articles now, at least five of them how Neuville is the man to beat to the title

I’m not taking anything away from Neuville, this was just superb and maybe even one of his best drives today but that’s what dirtfish usually does.

[jonkka]

i understood that who is first on saturday night is winner

Only championship points are divided differently, overall winner is decided still same as before, after final stage with smallest total time.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont get it, by listening to commentators, thierry isnt the winner? but we will see it tomorrow? i understood that who is first on saturday night is winner

To take ANY points you have to finish the rally on Sunday.

[Dontcut]

I dont get it, by listening to commentators, thierry isnt the winner? but we will see it tomorrow? i understood that who is first on saturday night is winner
Commentators are right. Those 18p havent got anything to do with overall finishing position.

[Lead]

So if Neuville bins it tomorrow, he doesnt get 18 points?

[Mirek]

What's the point in showing anything else now than Neuville or Ogier on Rally tv? They should be able to switch from their format in these situations.

All competitors pay for the promoter's service.

[Mirek]

Gryazin back in the lead by 0,2 seconds.

[focus206]

I dont get it, by listening to commentators, thierry isnt the winner? but we will see it tomorrow? i understood that who is first on saturday night is winner

He gets the maximum amount of points from the Saturday classification only IF he finishes the rally.
So if Neuville finishes tomorrow, he gets 18 points + whatever he collects tomorrow. If he doesn't finish tomorrow, he gets 0.

[CeskyOndra]

So if Neuville bins it tomorrow, he doesnt get 18 points?

He can drop a positions, but he CAN'T retire

[wyler]

So if Neuville bins it tomorrow, he doesnt get 18 points?

exactly. the rally goes as always, you need to fiish to win. then, after the finish, they just count points differently, awarding some for Saturday night standings and others for Sunday. winner is still the best overall, but it is possible that he will not be the one with more points, with some particular combination of results.

[TypeR]

Only championship points are divided differently, overall winner is decided still same as before, after final stage with smallest total time.
If so, then for it changes my opinion about the system a bit..

And this sentence should have been written and repeated everywhere when talked about new system.

I also understood that rally winner is decided today*.

[CeskyOndra]

I thought that it is obvious

[wyler]

If so, then for it changes my opinion about the system a bit..

And this sentence should have been written and repeated everywhere when talked about new system.

I also understood that rally winner is decided today*.

honestly it was quite clear on the reg. it just sparked a huge confusing argument on the fans media

[TypeR]

Would have been more clear to say and explain from WRC side that Thr-Sat is leg1 and Sun leg2..
Leg1 18 points (put on hold till finishing)
Leg2 7+5p
Overall winner is still with least overall time. And there wouldn't have been such a confusion.

[CeskyOndra]

Im so hyped for tomorrow. It is going to be a huge battle

[240RS]

Looks like the position changes might work in Ogier's favour inadvertently. Theoretically a better road position. "Less" dirt, if today's form guide is to be believed.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GE3SLgnWoAAR7ad?format=jpg&name=large

[Tauri_J]

I dont get it, by listening to commentators, thierry isnt the winner? but we will see it tomorrow? i understood that who is first on saturday night is winner

Where on earth have you heard that lol?

[Morte66]

So that's 28 constructor points each for Hyundai and Toyota, if they bank them?

Nothing showing for Munster. Could he restart tomorrow and get 12, by being the fastest on the day and winning the PS? Or is scoring over for him?

I think we should call Saturday points "Schrödinger's points", like the cat of uncertain fate.

[focus206]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GE3SLgnWoAAR7ad?format=jpg&name=large

it would have been enough just giving some (fewer) points after today, isntead of this "what if" classification.
Question is: if Neuville retires tomorrow, will Ogier get 18 from today because he will be retroactively moved into 1st place? Or will he get 15, and nobody gets 18?

[Morte66]

Question is: if Neuville retires tomorrow, will Ogier get 18 from today because he will be retroactively moved into 1st place? Or will he get 15, and nobody gets 18?

18, according to rally tv a moment ago.

[focus206]

18, according to rally tv a moment ago.

Wow... they managed to get even this decision wrong

[WRCStan]

So that's 28 constructor points each for Hyundai and Toyota, if they bank them?

Nothing showing for Munster. Could he restart tomorrow and get 12, by being the fastest on the day and winning the PS?

Yes.

Yes.

[seb_sh]

Everyone gets confused initially because everywhere else you get points directly for achieving something, so usually winner = most points. I think someone thought they were very clever when they came up with it but from my experience the truly clever people make simple elegant solutions.

Anyway, so far in this rally I don't think it mattered how the points are given because the top 3 have given us a good show.

[WRCStan]

Everyone gets confused initially because everywhere else you get points directly for achieving something, so usually winner = most points. I think someone thought they were very clever when they came up with it but from my experience the truly clever people make simple elegant solutions.

Anyway, so far in this rally I don't think it mattered how the points are given because the top 3 have given us a good show.

But there is a reset now as far as points are concerned. Munster and Neuville have an equal shot tomorrow.

The confusion stems from the regs being published late on a Friday and before anybody official could get an explainer out, this forum and other socials had already read them and begun to spread false information, including from influential and trusted voices.

[seb_sh]

But there is a reset now as far as points are concerned. Munster and Neuville have an equal shot tomorrow.

The confusion stems from the regs being published late on a Friday and before anybody official could get an explainer out, this forum and other socials had already read them and begun to spread false information, including from influential and trusted voices.

Even now, when people first hear about it they get it wrong. It's unintuitive and obtuse. Explaining it doesn't make it better, it just helps people get it.

Also if these points were handed tomorrow and everything else kept the same Munster and Neuville would have the same shot tomorrow.

[Rallyper]

This talk about Saturdays points having 0 (zero) if retiring tomorrow, is that anything new?

If you retired on Sundays anyway during the years, did you score anything back then? No

[becher]

It's the same with manufacturer points yes?

If Ogier where to retire tomorrow, Katsuta would score manufacturer points for fifth right?

[WRCStan]

Also if these points were handed tomorrow and everything else kept the same Munster and Neuville would have the same shot tomorrow.

Tha's what I said, unless you meant with the old points in which case, hardly, Munster restarts and is half an hour behind.

[meh]

The promoter must be really thankful for both classes' top 3 - they have delivered epic and intense battles so far and it's still all to be decided tomorrow.

[er88]

So if Ogier overhauls Thierry tomorrow and Neuville finishes 2nd, is he really 2nd? Or did he win the "main" rally ;)

[seb_sh]

Tha's what I said, unless you meant with the old points in which case, hardly, Munster restarts and is half an hour behind.

No, instead of giving out part points for end of saturday, give these points to overall standings at the end of sunday. Keep the rest as it is, so also points for Sunday only + PS.

[WRCStan]

It's the same with manufacturer points yes?

If Ogier where to retire tomorrow, Katsuta would score manufacturer points for fifth right?

Yes.

[WRCStan]

so if ogier overhauls thierry tomorrow and neuville finishes 2nd, is he really 2nd? Or did he win the "main" rally ;)

get out!

[becher]

So if Ogier overhauls Thierry tomorrow and Neuville finishes 2nd, is he really 2nd? Or did he win the "main" rally ;)

Depends on the winning margin.

[Eli]

So if Neuville bins it tomorrow, he doesnt get 18 points?

Exactly.

[Kras]

This talk about Saturdays points having 0 (zero) if retiring tomorrow, is that anything new?

If you retired on Sundays anyway during the years, did you score anything back then? No

But you we're also not even ground for winning sunday points if you retired on Saturday, unlike now

[Morte66]

Hmm, ignoring points for a moment, can Munster restart tomorrow? Or is the old RMC "max 60 cars on Sunday" thing going to kick in?

[seb_sh]

Hmm, ignoring points for a moment, can Munster restart tomorrow? Or is the old RMC "max 60 cars on Sunday" thing going to kick in?

I think prio1 are exempt from that, and he is not that far down anyway.

[Tom206wrc]

Fantastic fight in the Rally2 class, only 6"9 gap between Gryazin, Lopez and Rossel with three stages left to go :up: :cool:

[Myrvold]

Wow... they managed to get even this decision wrong

Oh. I was also under the impression that people who retires on Sunday, will be removed from Saturday, and the rest will just move up.


This talk about Saturdays points having 0 (zero) if retiring tomorrow, is that anything new?

If you retired on Sundays anyway during the years, did you score anything back then? No

However, if you led the rally after Saturday before, you didn't score any points either. It's not exactly like it was in either situation.

[PLuto]

Hmm, ignoring points for a moment, can Munster restart tomorrow? Or is the old RMC "max 60 cars on Sunday" thing going to kick in?

No limit for final leg.

[Tauri_J]

Wow... they managed to get even this decision wrong

Wrong? You just want those points to disappear from standings? Makes No sense

[Tauri_J]

So if Ogier overhauls Thierry tomorrow and Neuville finishes 2nd, is he really 2nd? Or did he win the "main" rally ;)

Whats the main rally in your opinion? I only know one and it ends sunday afternoon.

[er88]

Whats the main rally in your opinion? I only know one and it ends sunday afternoon.

Ofcourse, I was just joking after all the comments and confusion :)

[Morte66]

I guess we'll have a better idea about the new points system tomorrow.

OK, let's see how big a fool I can make of myself...

Ogier probably isn't super worried about points, he'll be wanting another win at Monte Carlo. He'll be pushing, and pushing hard unless he's somehow 10 seconds clear.

Neuville, Tanak and Evans all have something to protect as they would have in previous years, but also more to play for on Sunday morning.

I don't think Neuville is in the mood for going easy right now.

Tanak, especially, would previously have cruised until the power stage tomorrow. Now he has every reason to try to get 12 points out of the day, and if he's been smart with his tyres he has a decent chance. [Edit: he has road position too.]

Evans probably has weaker tyres. It would be reasonable for him to be conservative.

Fourmaux... any points would be welcome. Munster needs to finish, and listen to the warnings in his notes.

And watch out for Taka, everybody. He's on good rubber and ready to rock. Fear him.


On Thursday, at work, the old saying about "a camel is a horse designed by a committee" came up. I said that a camel might be ugly, but it's good at what it does. The new rules are certainly inelegant, so let's hope they're fully like a camel.

[seb_sh]

I guess we'll have a better idea about the new points system tomorrow.


I'd wait for a more "normal" gravel rally before drawing any conclusion.

[CeskyOndra]

What do you think about tomorrow's stages? Especially first one is really early in the morning, last time there was some ice.

[Morte66]

I'd wait for a more "normal" gravel rally before drawing any conclusion.

Yes, that's fair.

[PLuto]

Gregoire will be starting first tomorrow - https://rally-base.com/2024/rallye-monte-carlo-2024/start-list/?startTimeTypeId=1535

[focus206]

Wrong? You just want those points to disappear from standings? Makes No sense

No, I just want a normal scoring system. But yes, I'd rather those points to disappear than being retroactively reallocated, especially when you consider that those are supposed to be "Leg 1 / Saturday" points but their allocation depends on the result after "Leg 2 / Sunday"... Ogier finished 2nd in Leg 1, why would he deserve anything more than 15 points from that leg? He didn't win it.

[RS]

Shame we’re not seeing more of the 4-7 minute mark of this stage, looks really pretty with the mountain beside them. A really beautiful stage imho.

That's something i miss from the old Eurosport/IRC Monte days.. instead of 'here is car 1-2-3 going through the same section of the stage' they used to jump around a lot more so one would see more of the stage and it was better for the drama too as they would focus on the tighest battles. At least that's how i remember it.

The current setup has it's advantages too of course; equal coverage for all competitors and you can directely compare cars/drivers over the same stretch of road.

[er88]

Lets face it, we are all rally nerds and love the sport, hence why we follow this forum. Yet we have been debating this new pts scoring system, and the confusion it has brought to some since it was announced. And we have drivers who hate it.

So how the fuck does some casual rally fan, or a potential new fan, follow and understand?

The fact it's not straight away easy to understand is an instant red flag, especially when their aim is to attract new fans!

Rallying is actually huge, look at youtube. Look at turnouts at events at every level of the sport. Maybe the promoters and FIA should focus more on providing the actual rally fans with what we want, and re-engage the fans who have drifted away from the sport. We will never be F1, but rallying is unique and can still be huge

[Kenneth]

The point system would be easily fixed by giving few points for overall standings, even if it was for top3.

[satnav]

This looks good for the Hybrid units ;
https://dirtfish.com/rally/toyota-crosses-its-fingers-for-evans-hybrid-system/

The rules were changed this year;

There have also been changes made to the number of hybrid units available in 2024, as teams can no longer use more than three new units as opposed to nine in previous years as another way of reducing costs.

This is from the 2024 Sporting regs, that other was from Autosport !!

- Each Manufacturer Team: Maximum 3 new units per season
are allowed. The total number of hybrids units per season is
not limited.
For 2025 and 2026, maximum 3 new hybrid units per season
are allowed.
A refurbished hybrid unit is not considered as a new
hybrid unit when at least one of the following components
is unchanged: inverter, MGU or battery pack. If these three
elements are changed simultaneously, the decision will be at
the discretion of the FIA and the hybrid system supplier.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Suppose Neuville has a puncture or an off tomorrow and loses some minutes... before he'd have lost places and points, but now he'd still keep his 18 pts from Thur-Sat.

Good or bad?

[Morte66]

What do you think about tomorrow's stages? Especially first one is really early in the morning, last time there was some ice.

I don't know, but looking at the map the first stage is twisty so there will be areas in deep shadow. And it's a clear night on the forecast for Gap. So some sort of ice, or frost, or slippery slush, seems likely for the morning. Well, that's how it's been so far.

[becher]

Suppose Neuville has a puncture or an off tomorrow and loses some minutes... before he'd have lost places and points, but now he'd still keep his 18 pts from Thur-Sat.

Good or bad?
.
For an artificially close championship good, otherwise total shite

[Eli]

This looks good for the Hybrid units ;
https://dirtfish.com/rally/toyota-crosses-its-fingers-for-evans-hybrid-system/

The rules were changed this year;

There have also been changes made to the number of hybrid units available in 2024, as teams can no longer use more than three new units as opposed to nine in previous years as another way of reducing costs.

I think that rule only applies for the 2025-2026 season, this year if I remember correctly, they are still allowed 9.

[TypeR]

I think that this reduced HY system regulation from x to 3 is pointless..
It is a 3rd party piece of (sh!7) weight in the car that just has to be there..
It fails so often and teams can't do anything about it, because it isn't their product.

In conclusion.. if HY works it works and nobody gains anything when using new system ,,just in case''.

It isn't like using new engine, clutch, gearboz etc..
That really make a difference.

[dimviii]

https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2024/photos/rallye-automobile-monte-carlo_2024/hfr_dsc_7926.jpg

[EstWRC]

Tänak:

A solid day, altogether not too bad. I have been struggling with my engine again but we will see tonight what can be done, but I would say it’s definitely holding us back. When we are faster and the stage is flowing, it doesn’t have as great an effect, and we have been improving step-by-step.

We have a lot of options available for our tyres, so we can adapt to the situation in the morning.

In some ways, the rally starts again tomorrow; we want to score points, but you really need to follow what the others are doing – something to keep an eye on.

[EstWRC]

Flat out

https://youtu.be/Wex1hLeP8YI?si=YWVPZ3fpzfgBUBoH

[Eli]

I think that this reduced HY system regulation from x to 3 is pointless..
It is a 3rd party piece of (sh!7) weight in the car that just has to be there..
It fails so often and teams can't do anything about it, because it isn't their product.

In conclusion.. if HY works it works and nobody gains anything when using new system ,,just in case''.

It isn't like using new engine, clutch, gearboz etc..
That really make a difference.

They instead should’ve focused on the fact they’re running synthetic fuels or fossil-free fuels (whatever the case may be) and promote that instead of the fact the cars are now plug-in hybrids; Which if we’re being honest, none of the fans care about, it only adds weight, some additional cost to the cars (which as we said before are already mighty expensive) and a massive headache to the teams.
If it’s such a good solution for the sport, why didn’t they implement it to the rally2 cars? Hell why didn’t they even bother with giving them mild-hybrid systems?

[TypeR]

Wasn't it some time ago that these fia smartheads thought about r5 cars' need to adapt to 48v or whatever mild hybrid systems.. Luckily this shit didn't happen.

And about the fuel...
I don't know about today, but in the beginning years it was do harmful for the engined that r5/rally2/wrc2 drivers had to change the oil on every service and also some of Mikkelsen's dnf were due engine failuers bc of this ,,fossil free fuel''

[Eli]

Wasn't it some time ago that these fia smartheads thought about r5 cars' need to adapt to 48v or whatever mild hybrid systems.. Luckily this shit didn't happen.

And about the fuel...
I don't know about today, but in the beginning years it was do harmful for the engined that r5/rally2/wrc2 drivers had to change the oil on every service and also some of Mikkelsen's dnf were due engine failuers bc of this ,,fossil free fuel''

Yeah I think there was a dirtfish article (or a few) regarding this back in ‘21 or was it ‘20? (Covid made it all scrambled), asking if rally2 should go the rally1 way, I think they even asked Yves Matton about this but ultimately they agreed it would add too much complexity to the car and wouldn’t be worth it.

[er88]

That's something i miss from the old Eurosport/IRC Monte days.. instead of 'here is car 1-2-3 going through the same section of the stage' they used to jump around a lot more so one would see more of the stage and it was better for the drama too as they would focus on the tighest battles. At least that's how i remember it.

The current setup has it's advantages too of course; equal coverage for all competitors and you can directely compare cars/drivers over the same stretch of road.

The current live coverage is good, and they have listened to complaints a little. Post stage interviews now in a small screen at the corner, so we can still watch the action. Becs sometimes shuts up and says "lets listen to Scott Martin or whatever co driver" for 30secs etc.
But my biggest gripe is maybe following Fourmaux today, while Neuville and Ogier are absolutely on it in an intense battle.

Presume their must be an agreement all P1 drivers or teams get equal-ish coverage? Suppose that would be an attraction for sponsors when you can guarantee screen time no matter what position you are

[Eli]

The current live coverage is good, and they have listened to complaints a little. Post stage interviews now in a small screen at the corner, so we can still watch the action. Becs sometimes shuts up and says "lets listen to Scott Martin or whatever co driver" for 30secs etc.
But my biggest gripe is maybe following Fourmaux today, while Neuville and Ogier are absolutely on it in an intense battle.

Presume their must be an agreement all P1 drivers or teams get equal-ish coverage? Suppose that would be an attraction for sponsors when you can guarantee screen time no matter what position you are

I think since it’s Mike Chen along side her and not Julien Porter she tends to actually let him speak so we hear less of her which is good (imho). Like you said, it was a shame we couldn’t get both onboards displayed at the same time, I’m sure it’s technically possible but again like you said probably an agreement between the sponsors and the promoter. On that note however, TV’s are large enough these days to have side by sides, they honestly should at least give us the viewers the option to view multiple onboards/camera angles. Also would be nice to have some more stage side cameras, I know it’s expensive but for the love of god this is one of the prettiest rallies on the calendar, they’re doing it no justice by showing (relatively) so little of it. But yeah sorry, that’s a rant I should've posted on WRC+ thread.

As for the rally, so far I’d say it’s easily the best since Sweden last year (in my eyes anyhow) and as an added bonus, the WRC2 category is on fire, loving every second of it, shame we only have 3 stages and 52kms tomorrow, makes me wish we had a bit more.

[dimviii]

https://youtu.be/RlXBv0vEDpA

[fiscorpun]

What an excellent fight we are seeing in Monte, jeeezzzz... both on WRC and WRC2

[typhoon]

I'm having so much fun seeing the whole event, especially since I can follow everything out (thankfully I got 2 days off this weekend!).

Without Rovanpera and with Ogier not pushing as years before in WRC, Rally 1 drivers looks more on a level and thus we can enjoy a great battle up there! So exciting! WRC 2 is totally on fire with such great fights.

Hopefully tomorrow will get even better with the Sunday and WPS points! If that's how the whole season will be, we're gonna have fun, even though with so few Rally 1 cars!

[lmmjvss]

IF Tierry crashes tomorrow but Seb doesnt.... Tierry's saturday 18 points goes to Ogier or it just disapears from the points table?

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240128/b3e673b98cdff0869e9fce5cfa360b76.jpg

[PLuto]

IF Tierry crashes tomorrow but Seb doesnt.... Tierry's saturday 18 points goes to Ogier or it just disapears from the points table?

Goes to Ogier

[Eli]

I’ve been too generous with wrc all live, no feed from Ott…you would think 6 years of them doing it would solve these kind of issues, they want new fans? Start by having basic things work.

[EstWRC]

Oh man. The gaps are so tight. Good to see

And Tänak actually has good speed when pushing now

[meh]

Another masterpiece from Neuville

[EstWRC]

Thierry wants 30 points

Another mega stage

[CeskyOndra]

I never wasn't that scared like 5 minutes ago

[TypeR]

Neuville on attack mode.. gap 8.4 to Ogier already

[Eli]

Thierry wants 30 points

Another mega stage

Damn he’s messing with my pickems.

[philippebugalski]

Thierry on a mission again. What a drive through the whole week.
Still 2 stages to go but Monte delivered over any of my expectations

[meh]

Lopez and Rossel with equal time are faster than Katsuta and Mikkelsen at the stage end.

[EstWRC]

I don’t get this now. Why Tänak has 4 points when he is ahead of Evans at the moment in Sunday standings?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240128/d171dd25debdfaa58814b1b49856f365.jpg

[EstWRC]

This should be correct like Antti has posted

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240128/06093dfe37cf29ad0c72d6fce20a8604.jpg

[Eli]

I don’t get this now. Why Tänak has 4 points when he is ahead of Evans at the moment in Sunday standings?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240128/d171dd25debdfaa58814b1b49856f365.jpg

Because they get the points based on their position, if it were 5 seconds between Evans & Ott in the overall time and Ott would’ve been 6 seconds faster and therefore passed Evans he would receive the 5 points for third but because he’s still 4th, he gets 4 points. That’s how I understood the system anyhow.

[EstWRC]

No that’s not how I get but okay.

As I understand Sunday has separate classification time wise and atm Tänak is faster than Evans in that regard. That’s also how Antti in Twitter understands

[Dontcut]

Because they get the points based on their position, if it were 5 seconds between Evans & Ott in the overall time and Ott would’ve been 6 seconds faster and therefore passed Evans he would receive the 5 points for third but because he’s still 4th, he gets 4 points. That’s how I understood the system anyhow.

No

[CeskyOndra]

No that’s not how I get but okay.

As I understand Sunday has separate classification time wise and atm Tänak is faster than Evans in that regard. That’s also how Antti in Twitter understands

Same here. Maybe it is just a mistake from them

[denkimi]

I wonder if Hyundai already starts thinking that signing mikkelsen was a mistake.

[Eli]

Same here. Maybe it is just a mistake from them

If it’s like you guys say then it’s even more stupid & complicated…jesus why of all things did they have to change it like that?

[Eli]

I wonder if Hyundai already starts thinking that signing mikkelsen was a mistake.

They’re probably thinking, ‘we should’ve used Sordo here”, sometimes their strategy is baffling.

[seb_sh]

Seems Thierry hit the groove, if he doesn't make a mistake it'll be hard to beat him even for Ogier. The WRC2 fight is more unpredictable.

[EstWRC]

If it’s like you guys say then it’s even more stupid & complicated…jesus why of all things did they have to change it like that?

But this is what makes Sunday now interesting. If they would give Sunday points according to their positions at the moment then They wouldn’t push like they do

[Eli]

But this is what makes Sunday now interesting. If they would give Sunday points according to their positions at the moment then They wouldn’t push like they do

I guess but the guys in front still enjoy their road position, will be especially true on gravel.

[Kras]

All this talk about Katsutas strategy... What exactly is his strategy, scoring least points possible?

[meh]

With PowerStage you have now like 3 different rallies to keep in mind:
1. rally overall position and get points earned at the end of Saturday
2. Sunday leg position
3. PowerStage position

[PLuto]

But this is what makes Sunday now interesting. If they would give Sunday points according to their positions at the moment then They wouldn’t push like they do

About who you are talking? Ogier and Neuville are pushing no matter of this stupid rule. And who else is pushing much more than in previous days?

[Rallyest]

All this talk about Katsutas strategy... What exactly is his strategy, scoring least points possible?

Was thinking the same, and then the commentator talk like " He is saving the tires for powerstage to get 5 points" in what world do they live in, at this pace Neuville could beat him at PS even if he was going backwards

[meh]

All this talk about Katsutas strategy... What exactly is his strategy, scoring least points possible?

He said at the end of the previous stage that his approach had changed and just going through the stages. Maybe some team order for the case Evans and Ogier slip.

Now he needs to "push" a bit to be faster than Rally2 cars to earn some more points :)

[Rallyest]

About who you are talking? Ogier and Neuville are pushing no matter of this stupid rule. And who else is pushing much more than in previous days?

Tänak certainly was pushing more than yesterday

[rallyfiend]

About who you are talking? Ogier and Neuville are pushing no matter of this stupid rule. And who else is pushing much more than in previous days?

Tanak is definitely trying for his maximum share of the 12 points - as I'm sure is Evans. Lets see how they do in this stage...

[PLuto]

Tänak certainly was pushing more than yesterday

I think he is the only one... But still it nothing change, this new points system is really stupid.

[Kras]

With PowerStage you have now like 3 different rallies to keep in mind:
1. rally overall position and get points earned at the end of Saturday
2. Sunday leg position
3. PowerStage position

Also theres nowhere to see overall sunday points clasification, you have to add up stagetimes on paper I suppose 🤣

[CeskyOndra]

Fourmaux said he is pushing too. I like this Sunday.

[Rallyest]

Anyway, really dissapointed in Mikkelsen, i know he is getting used to the car, but getting his ass handed to him by Munster, who shouldnt even be near him yet. embarassing. Sad they didnt have trust in Teemu

[Kras]

Was thinking the same, and then the commentator talk like " He is saving the tires for powerstage to get 5 points" in what world do they live in, at this pace Neuville could beat him at PS even if he was going backwards

I'd be srprised if gets more than 1 PS point

[EstWRC]

I think he is the only one... But still it nothing change, this new points system is really stupid.

Tänak, Evans and Fourmaux

Yes this time we are lucky that we have this fight for the win but Neuville would still push if he would lead by over a minute. not so much as now but still would to get points also from today

[Eli]

Anyway, really dissapointed in Mikkelsen, i know he is getting used to the car, but getting his ass handed to him by Munster, who shouldnt even be near him yet. embarassing

He should’ve started with Lappi (yes I know a fourth car) in Sweden, there he’d have a better road position and at least a surface he’s comfortable with, I seriously don’t know what Hyundai were thinking nominating him for tarmac events, since when was he fast on the black stuff or competitive in monte for that matter? (Post Polo R WRC days)

[Eli]

And why are we seeing a rotating map again? Is Ott’s onboard camera down? Why don’t they have some stage side cameras here or where is the helicopter?

[Rallyest]

And why are we seeing a rotating map again? Is Ott’s onboard camera down? Why don’t they have some stage side cameras here or where is the helicopter?

sad yeah about the coverage, have loved Ott's inside cam angle, really gives you the true feeling of the speed.

[Kras]

Back to radio broadcast

[EstWRC]

Great broadcasting today

[jonkka]

Also theres nowhere to see overall sunday points clasification, you have to add up stagetimes on paper I suppose 🤣

Indeed, that is a bit of pain.

[Tauri_J]

Quality is amazing!

[PLuto]

Also theres nowhere to see overall sunday points clasification, you have to add up stagetimes on paper I suppose 🤣

Here is Sunday classification - https://rally-base.com/2024/rallye-monte-carlo-2024/?ssGroupId=7

[Corcaíoch]

4th leg standings on EWRC a useful way of working out Sunday points I think. 0.7s between Evans and Tanak on Sunday standings heading to the power stage. All-live need to up their game regarding Sunday points and standings though, not helping clear anything up at the moment.

[seb_sh]

Commentary and graphics are focusing on the overall standings (which at this moment only matter for the stats and glory), but some drivers are pushing to get sunday points, some are driving just to get to the end, seems everyone is looking at some different standings which is convenient for them. For me just because a driver says at the end that he is pushing to get sunday points is a bit meaningless if I don't get the context, is he succeeding, is he fighting anybody? Or do I just look stupidly at everything and then at the end points and standings magically appear from nowhere? This only cheapens the show, every time this points system is mentioned I realise it's stupider than I thought before.

[Rallyest]

Here is Sunday classification - https://rally-base.com/2024/rallye-monte-carlo-2024/?ssGroupId=7

0.7s between Tänak and Evans, gonna be interesting for powerstage. I think Neuville and Ogier battle is done. Gives something to see

[Kras]

Here is Sunday classification - https://rally-base.com/2024/rallye-monte-carlo-2024/?ssGroupId=7

Thx. 3rd party site saves again from promoter incomptetence

[EstWRC]

Sunday so far

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240128/2467691b72b8b81441dd031948e47a73.jpg

[CeskyOndra]

I think they will show it after this stage. Or I hope*

[meh]

Neuville is clearly "in the zone".

A bit surprised that Evans was able to find speed and Ogier was not.

[PLuto]

Neuville is clearly "in the zone".

A bit surprised that Evans was able to find speed and Ogier was not.

For me it looks like Ogier "resigned"...

[Kras]

Neuvile putting a wrench in Ogiers record padding is gonna be the highlight of this rally for me

[denkimi]

Neuville is clearly "in the zone".

A bit surprised that Evans was able to find speed and Ogier was not.
I think ogier has kinda given up. He is not going to beat neuville on speed anymore, and he doesn't care about points.

[Morte66]

All this talk about Katsutas strategy... What exactly is his strategy, scoring least points possible?

Very fair question.