2023 - Race 3 Australia

[F1nKS]

I have enjoyed the first 2 Jeddah races, but this year Jeddah was not as interesting (midfield was the most interesting part). Meanwhile, I have never found Australia to be that exciting. So maybe this year will be different.

Questions I see are:

1. Is there a potential Red Bull reliability issue?

2. Can Perez, coming of this victory really challenge Max? Rosberg/Hamilton battle was set by Hamilton having bad luck with reliability issues.

3. Feel like there is Perez/Verstappen conflict brewing - it could get spicy if Perez can challenge.

4. Can Ferrari bounce back? Or are they only capable of battling for 2nd or 3rd?

5. Russell says "We know we’ve got some more performance in the locker, in some races to come" - will Australia be one of those races?

[Tazio]

Space 'heco, what's up with him?

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[F1nKS]

Perez makes a mistake in Q1 - out.

Alonso continues to look good.
Hulkenburg pulls out a good lap to get to Q3

[Tazio]

Hulk is on fire

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[F1nKS]

Qualifying battle has emerged. Hamilton only 0.009 behind Verstappen.

[Tazio]

Well played by Merc

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[Tazio]

Qualifying battle has emerged. Hamilton only 0.009 behind Verstappen.Ended up almost .4

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[F1nKS]

Final Q3

1. Verstappen
2. Russell
3. Hamilton
4. Alonso

[truefan72]

Something is going on with RBR and Checo. This seems very dubious in terms if the car setup. Typical Horner/red bull shenanigans. Perez complained in Q3 and they did nothing. Perez was great in Jeddah and suddenly he cant find the brakepoints???


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[Tazio]

Something is going on with RBR and Checo. This seems very dubious in terms if the car setup. Typical Horner/red bull shenanigans. Perez complained in Q3 and they did nothing. Perez was great in Jeddah and suddenly he cant find the brakepoints???


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYeah........weird........checo.....

https://youtu.be/tkcHItczjGM

:dork:

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[Nitrodaze]

Mercedes looking good. Russell also looking very good. I wonder, did Redbull give Perez the car he wanted, he looked awful with braking at the corners. That did not look like the same Redbull that won Jeddah

[Tazio]

I wouldn't get too excited about McMerc mate. Here is how I saw it.
The issue was that for the final runs in Q3, there was no time for a prep lap. For the rest of qualifying, everyone was just pounding in laps on the same set. For final q3 runs when the fastest times were set, it was done with just an outlap

They all fueled for the first run to end as the rain was forecast to come. So everyone boxed with 4min left.

Then when coming out again there was time only for the outlap into push lap,which didn't fit the AM narrative, but took things towards Merc who could fire the tyres up quicker.
I think this characteristic of the Mercedes will punish them in the booty tomorrow

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[Bagwan]

I wouldn't get too excited about McMerc mate. Here is how I saw it.
The issue was that for the final runs in Q3, there was no time for a prep lap. For the rest of qualifying, everyone was just pounding in laps on the same set. For final q3 runs when the fastest times were set, it was done with just an outlap

They all fueled for the first run to end as the rain was forecast to come. So everyone boxed with 4min left.

Then when coming out again there was time only for the outlap into push lap,which didn't fit the AM narrative, but took things towards Merc who could fire the tyres up quicker.
I think this characteristic of the Mercedes will punish them in the booty tomorrow

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I think you've got it spot on , McTazzy .
Long game for Zo and his hero tomorrow .

I want to see Checo coming through the field , if they can find the gremlin in his buggy .

[Nitrodaze]

I wouldn't get too excited about McMerc mate. Here is how I saw it.
The issue was that for the final runs in Q3, there was no time for a prep lap. For the rest of qualifying, everyone was just pounding in laps on the same set. For final q3 runs when the fastest times were set, it was done with just an outlap

They all fueled for the first run to end as the rain was forecast to come. So everyone boxed with 4min left.

Then when coming out again there was time only for the outlap into push lap,which didn't fit the AM narrative, but took things towards Merc who could fire the tyres up quicker.
I think this characteristic of the Mercedes will punish them in the booty tomorrow

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That was my impression as well But this result would give Mercedes a moral boost. I expect them, to drop back a few places as the Aston comes through tomorrow. The interesting question is can Checo carve his way to the podium tomorrow? If he could do that,. he would keep his championship fight with Verstappen alive.


Redbull is not looking bulletproof at the moment, but l think they are way too strong to be properly punished when they have issues. Also, could it be Alonso return to the podium tomorrow? A Mercedes on the poduim would also be great. Go George!

[Firstgear]

Something is going on with RBR and Checo. This seems very dubious in terms if the car setup. Typical Horner/red bull shenanigans. Perez complained in Q3 and they did nothing. Perez was great in Jeddah and suddenly he cant find the brakepoints???


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt sounded suspicious to me as well.

Redbull are way faster than the rest of the field and it looks at this time that they will run away with both championships. If you were Horner, would you want team dynamics like Hamilton/Rosberg or more like Hamilton/Bottas? When you're way ahead of the field like Redbull is right now, it may be in their best interest to manipulate results a bit to keep a certain harmony in the team. Keeping Checo down just a notch is the way to do that. If he actually starts to challenge and feel he has a real chance at the title...things could get really ugly really quickly (like Hamilton/Rosberg). The longer he thinks he has a chance, the uglier it could get.

[airshifter]

I don't buy any of the conspiracy theories myself. Though a number 1 driver might get the best personnel in the garage, I seriously doubt any team is going to intentionally sabotage a car for the sake of keeping #1 and #2 status. There is simply too much financial risk to start, not to mention potential huge liability if a person is seriously injured or killed. There would probably also be big liability if the #2 status wasn't contract specified. And in that case it would simply be easier to order one driver to yield to another.

I don't think Checo is fast enough to challenge Max in a straight up fight. He was hired to be a good #2 and does well at that role so far. If he was faster, I think RB would give him a chance to race. After all, there is often a lot of money to be saved in contracts if a lesser paid driver beats a higher paid driver.



Like others, I think track temps are going to play a big part in who has race pace. RB look light on their tires, but some others are as well. If they all preserve tires as well as practice and qually suggested they might, we could see a quicker race pace over what we usually expect.

[Tazio]

Well Lec's race is over

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[Tazio]

Whoa......space.......Why for the red flag?

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[F1nKS]

Crazy race so far. The whole Russell pit is seemed wrong from the start.

[Tazio]

Russ on fire........ eek!


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[Tazio]

Def not Russ' day

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[Tazio]

Red flag, red flag

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[airshifter]

And another red flag. Looks like a two lap shootout from a standing start!

[F1nKS]

Just about ready to check it in and go to bed --- RED FLAG!

It could be an exciting finish.

[Nitrodaze]

Who';s ya money on for the win?

[airshifter]

Pure chaos....

[Nitrodaze]

Too late for a restart, son how are they to sort this one out?

[Nitrodaze]

If they end it here, it would be great for Mclaren and Alpha Romeo, both with two cars each in the top ten. Sainz will also be smiling at the end of this. What about the incredible Hulk in 4th for Haas.

[airshifter]

Sainz to Alpine. You heard it here first. :laugh:

[truefan72]

Sainz is the pure donkey of the race


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[Nitrodaze]

How is a five-seconds penalty fair on a rolling last lap? Ferrari would not be impressed. A five seconds penalty only makes sense under active competitive conditions. In a controlled situation where all cars are bunched up, such a penalty translates to almost 30 seconds penalty compared to in-race situation.

[Tazio]

Lost in all the bs, a very good race by the boss. The Merc was a good car here

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[Tazio]

Fred.......The wily old Fox ....


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[Nitrodaze]

Sainz is the pure donkey of the race


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It was not intentional, Alonso sort of moved into his path. Yes, he could have taken avoiding action but how would he know what is going on behind him that may also take him out? It was a racing incident. The stewards are being heavy-handed here. A blame mentality going on l think.

[Nitrodaze]

Lost in all the bs, a very good race by the boss. The Merc was a good car here

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That really surprised me to see they had real pace at this track. There is inherent untapped performance in the W14. Not a crappy car after all.

[Tazio]

Classic podium, congrats to all the Boyz
Feel bad for Gas', and Oc'. Sucks to be Alpine
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[airshifter]

Strange race start to finish really.

The early safety car to red flag situation leaves some cars out to dry for pitting early, then essentially everyone end up on hards. I'm not really sure that first red flag was warranted, but Albon did kick up a lot of gravel. Sucks for a Williams to be placed that high on merit and go out like that. Sucked for George having the engine let go as well, and not something common for the Mercs.

Some good racing to be had after the restart, but a lot of people are somewhat in tire preservation mode, waiting to see who blinks first. And every time someone blinks, the cars up front pick up pace and for the most part keep the order, at least towards the front of the field. I think the only person likely to make any spot up before that last red flag was Perez, and then just maybe. The cars towards the front seemed able to respond to any real challenge, and they all seemed to have some tire life left to fight if need be.


As for the ending chaos, just that. Even the incident was strange. I think KMag must have just lost the track in the sun, as he didn't seem to correct at all and just kind of drove into the wall. From there it all went sideways with yet another standing start, and as is not uncommon with standing starts contact through the first corner. When all the dust settles, Alpine looses out big time with both cars out. Sainz and Ferrari lose out big time with the penalty given but no chance to defend against everyone stacking behind him.

As for the penalty itself, I think Ferrari should push the issue. No doubt Carlos made the contact that started the chaos. But had it been the first lap it would have been considered a racing incident. Or probably even the second restart. But in any case its' known that standing starts often create contact at the first turn or two. Ferrari could easily provide evidence that equal or greater contact on the first turn is often considered a racing incident. If the FIA doesn't want to risk those incidents, don't force a standing start. It will be interesting to see how they deal with it, as I think Fred is a different kind of animal and wise enough to push the issue.


Three world champs on the podium again for the first time in a while. All in all an interesting race, but some strange spins tossed into the mix. And up until that last red flag and the chaos at the end, 5 different manufacturers in the top 5 positions of the race, and not in orders we would really expect.

[truefan72]

Tbh I think the penalty to Sainz was fair. He caused the chaos that affected 6 cars. I’m not sure what he was complaining about. Simply drove into Alonso and the carnage ensued. Even if it was the first lap he still would have gotten a penalty. Tbf Gasly should also have received a penalty as well for essentially taking out Ocon in the aftermath. If they Max and Hamilton had gone past the first sector before the red flag then Hulk would have gotten his first podium.
The only certainty at the end was that the first 2 were going to maintain their positions and that sainz was going to get a penalty


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[Nitrodaze]

Tbh I think the penalty to Sainz was fair. He caused the chaos that affected 6 cars. I’m not sure what he was complaining about. Simply drove into Alonso and the carnage ensued. Even if it was the first lap he still would have gotten a penalty. Tbf Gasly should also have received a penalty as well for essentially taking out Ocon in the aftermath. If they Max and Hamilton had gone past the first sector before the red flag then Hulk would have gotten his first podium.
The only certainty at the end was that the first 2 were going to maintain their positions and that sainz was going to get a penalty


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Alonso thinks it was a racing incident and the penalty was unfair. He would know.

[Tazio]

"Suicidal" restart......Ocon :rolleyes: :laugh:

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[Tazio]

Alonso thinks it was a racing incident and the penalty was unfair. He would know.Yes.......The penalty was harsh. 'los had every right to be pissed off

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[Bagwan]

Alonso thinks it was a racing incident and the penalty was unfair. He would know.

Carlos is his buddy , and Spanish as well , so Fred was playing it a little cooler than if it were another rival .
Remember , he was pretty hot under the collar a couple of races ago when he got tagged early on , but calmed down when he realized it was Lance .

This is the newer , friendlier Fred we are seeing .
He was happy to get the podium back , and it would not have served his agenda to toss Carlos farther under the bus .

[Bagwan]

Yes.......The penalty was harsh. 'los had every right to be pissed off

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Well , he did spin Fred , so deserves something for what he did , doesn't he ?

[Tazio]

Well , he did spin Fred , so deserves something for what he did , doesn't he ?Perhaps you are correct baggy. However I endorse ' los' god given right to get pissed off

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[F1nKS]

I do think even if RBR seem invincible at this point, these races are showing that RBR is not bullet proof. Max seems to have some issue with his transmission. Checo had problems with his brake settings. There are even hints of undercurrent of problems in the team.

Mercedes seems on the edge of being competitive. With some continual improvement they may be in the mix in this long season. Mercedes also were aggressive with Max and it paid off for them early. I didn't agree with their choosing to pit Russell, but the red flag ruined what every strategy they were trying to work.

I don't count out Leclerc either if Ferrari can get things sorted out.

[airshifter]

Well , he did spin Fred , so deserves something for what he did , doesn't he ?

I really don't have a problem with penalties, but the lack of consistency. Gasly created some of that mess as well. Sergeant tapped into the back of Nyck and ruined his chances. Yet neither of the two got any penalties. In the case of Gasly, he took himself out. But that doesn't correct the fact that he screwed up other peoples races. If they are going to punish poor driving, they should do it at the front and the back, and everywhere in between, with consistency and on every occasion. Otherwise the middle of the pack drivers get away with things the front of the pack drivers don't get away with.

And placing the penalty time on any driver with no racing laps left just hangs them out to dry. They might as well have just said Carlos goes to the back of the pack. In this case he would have been better off if he took himself out of the race. Bottas got 5 grid places for taking out cars.... much less harsh as compared to what they did to Carlos.

[Bagwan]

I really don't have a problem with penalties, but the lack of consistency. Gasly created some of that mess as well. Sergeant tapped into the back of Nyck and ruined his chances. Yet neither of the two got any penalties. In the case of Gasly, he took himself out. But that doesn't correct the fact that he screwed up other peoples races. If they are going to punish poor driving, they should do it at the front and the back, and everywhere in between, with consistency and on every occasion. Otherwise the middle of the pack drivers get away with things the front of the pack drivers don't get away with.

And placing the penalty time on any driver with no racing laps left just hangs them out to dry. They might as well have just said Carlos goes to the back of the pack. In this case he would have been better off if he took himself out of the race. Bottas got 5 grid places for taking out cars.... much less harsh as compared to what they did to Carlos.

It all gets a bit complicated if there are degrees of guilt in the melee , but those at the front generally are more responsible for the pace of the pack when it squeezes into the corners .
You're right about others who may have their own culpabilities in episodes like this , though .

Giving him 5 places instead of 5 seconds makes a lot of sense that close to the end . That sounds like a great addition to the rules at perhaps the 5 laps to the end of the race point .