Melbourne - Night race or else!

[ArrowsFA1]

Bernie Ecclestone has warned the Melbourne authorities that the city's Formula One race is under threat unless the event becomes a night race.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58982

It's funny how F1 is going to ever more countries outside Europe because that's where the money is, and yet it seems Bernie expects countries to hold their races at a time that suits European TV viewers :rolleyes:

[janneppi]

Silly idea, i like when races are too early for me to bother waking up for them.

[Ranger]

Yes, night races would be interesting. But this complaining of "Oh sorry we have to get up too early to watch the race, so therefore you're losing us money and hence you're going to change it" is really getting to me, especially when they are putting pressure on the Victorian government about it.

If I was in the same room as Bernie and he said that to me, I would be inclined to slap him and say "Tough titties!" because we in Oz have to wait until at least 11:00 at night to see most of the races of the year.

Seems pretty egocentric and Eurocentric to me. Sad thing is, some dickheads in Queensland are willing to pay $600 million towards sorting out Bernie's problems by building an entire new facility. Talk about feeding the troll! :rolleyes:

[ShiftingGears]

Immensely hypocritical, and its all part of Bernies bullying tactics. Irritatingly, he always seems to get his way. Thats why hes such a good businessman.

[millencolin]

As for someone that has to get up early/stay up late to watch next to every race, i too say TOUGH TITTIES!!! Boohoo you have to get up early for about 3 races! how about the other 14 or so races!!!

No Night Race Please!!!

[ArrowsFA1]

Seems pretty egocentric and Eurocentric to me.
Eurocentric is right. This is supposed to be the world championship, and the world runs in different time zones.

[Flat.tyres]

i dont really care too much about a few aussies having to get out of bed to watch races but im not too keen on loads of night races. one or two possibly but that should be it.

[Ari]

In short, if its night race or else..... then we'll take else thanks!!

Im not sure how many people here have been to Albert Park but its a SUBURB. There are houses metres away from the track basically. There is no way they would allow F1 cars running around at 9-10pm on a Sunday night. It stupid to even consider it.

To think the nerve of the man to even ask Melbourne to pay the 20m for the lights!!!!!!!!!!!

There are 3 years left on the contract, we'll just have to make them good years.

Up yours Bernie!!!!!

[Valve Bounce]

In short, if its night race or else..... then we'll take else thanks!!

Im not sure how many people here have been to Albert Park but its a SUBURB. There are houses metres away from the track basically. There is no way they would allow F1 cars running around at 9-10pm on a Sunday night. It stupid to even consider it.

To think the nerve of the man to even ask Melbourne to pay the 20m for the lights!!!!!!!!!!!

There are 3 years left on the contract, we'll just have to make them good years.

Up yours Bernie!!!!!

I just cycled around Albert Park this morning, and these were my exact thoughts.

[rah]

All you ever read about the Melb GP is how well run it is. And then he goes and does this to it. Silly little man. I say give him the finger, its not as if it makes much money anyway. I will just have to make sure I go a few times before it is lost.

[Valve Bounce]

All you ever read about the Melb GP is how well run it is. And then he goes and does this to it. Silly little man. I say give him the finger, its not as if it makes much money anyway. I will just have to make sure I go a few times before it is lost.

Actually, it costs Melbourne a reported 30 million loss to run the even each year.

[Ari]

Actually, it costs Melbourne a reported 30 million loss to run the even each year.

True that.... but what about the income derived through local traders for the event? Also the income from Tourism? I know Billy Bell does very, very well out of it. It's all something which cant be easily added up.

Funny thing is though, if it's a night race Tourism Australia would likely do a lot better from the event than if it's a day race! Why? Because at present it's on at 5am in Europe and the only folk awake to see it then are the F1 tragics and unemployed! The lunchtime market in Europe (ie: night race) would be more likely to consider Aussie land their next tourism destination.

Btw, cheers for the nod on my previous post VB.

[AJP]

A Melbourne night race would look pretty good.
If there is a city in Australia that has the right night life, it would be Melbourne..
I don't think it would be amazing, I think I would prefer a day race, but I'm certainly not going to say no...I want a race in Australia.

[Cozzie]

Unbelievable! What about us Aussies who have to stay up until 2:00AM to watch the GPs in Europe!

[Hawkmoon]

For all the good Bernie may have done for Formula 1 over the years, he is rapidly screwing it up now.

He charges exorbidant fees for races that make it all but impossible to make money from holding a race and if he doesn't like the way you part your hair he goes out of his way to make life very difficult for you, ah la Silverstone.

I think it's about time the vertically challenged little gnome retired and counted is millions because at the moment he only seems to care about growing his own bank account and not growing F1.

[Flat.tyres]

Unbelievable! What about us Aussies who have to stay up until 2:00AM to watch the GPs in Europe!

well, if you cant do the time.... :D

[Valve Bounce]

A Melbourne night race would look pretty good.
If there is a city in Australia that has the right night life, it would be Melbourne..
I don't think it would be amazing, I think I would prefer a day race, but I'm certainly not going to say no...I want a race in Australia.
Please read what Ari said above - Albrt Park is in the middle of a very densly populated area in Melbourne, and the high decibels of an F1 car would not be appreciated by many who live in the area and want peace and quiet (that's what the area is about) in the middle of the night. Apart from anything else, there is a retirement home for the aged at the intersection of Richardson and Bridport, which is 1 kilometre from the south western side of the track.

I would predict that if Bernie holds to that ultimatum, then the F1 race at Albert Park would lapse at the end of the current contract.

[waitey]

i think melbourne will still get the race for more years to come. I think they will negotiate something with bernie. Melbourne is a FANTASTIC race on the calendar and has won the best grand prix of the year on numerous times so for bernie to treat the melbourne grand prix like crap is a disgrace.

Either they will agree to a night race or i think Melbourne will just lose its spot as the opening race and maybe drop back to 2nd or 3rd race of the year and another race will open the season as a night race.

[N. Jones]

Unbelievable! What about us Aussies who have to stay up until 2:00AM to watch the GPs in Europe!

Aussies? What about everyone who lives in Asia-Pacific? I guess in Bernie's mind only Euro money counts unless he is squeezing it out of race organizers...

[ArrowsFA1]

There seems to be an unhealthy obsession in F1 at the moment with night races :rolleyes: This story (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59058) in Autosport is about the costs of making Malaysia a night race.

As it says:
Ecclestone is keen on moving races in the Asian region to evening time so that television audiences in Europe can watch them in the afternoon, instead of the early morning.
Bernie, I'm not bothered when I see the races. I don't see why Europe should have the races at "convenient" times, while the rest of the world has to lump it.

F1 is a World Championship, and I'm happy watching races at the local time where the event is happening, not my local time. That means I'm happy to be sitting in the dark while watching a race, but I have no interest sitting watching a race that's taking place in the dark.

That's part of the appeal of a World Championship.

[AJP]

Please read what Ari said above - Albrt Park is in the middle of a very densly populated area in Melbourne, and the high decibels of an F1 car would not be appreciated by many who live in the area and want peace and quiet (that's what the area is about) in the middle of the night. Apart from anything else, there is a retirement home for the aged at the intersection of Richardson and Bridport, which is 1 kilometre from the south western side of the track.

I would predict that if Bernie holds to that ultimatum, then the F1 race at Albert Park would lapse at the end of the current contract.I understand that Valve...these issues would be raised at any venue, any where in the world.

My worry is that if it is not held at night once the current contract is finished, Australia will lose the GP all together, which is certainly not cool..

[Valve Bounce]

I understand that Valve...these issues would be raised at any venue, any where in the world.

My worry is that if it is not held at night once the current contract is finished, Australia will lose the GP all together, which is certainly not cool..

I don't think that these issues would be raised anywhere in the world. For example, it would not be raised at Silverstone, nor at Le Mans, nor at the Nurburgring, Philip Island, and probably many of the other circuits that are some distance from densely populated areas. Even Spa is not like Albert park, which is surrounded by densely populated areas.

And since Melbourne is losing 30 million each time that the race is held, I wouldn't mind betting that they would hedge at the additional headache of a night race.

[waitey]

I think Thursday must be scrapped from our event, no one goes any more and it still must be costing them millions to put the day on the event.

Melbourne is losing money like basically every grand prix does each year, but the costs it really makes are hidden, the cost thing is not the issue because the government knows how good it is to have the event in terms of the hidden benefits.

If they got rid of thursday it would free up a lot of money that they were already spending for lighting. Anyways why isn't an option there for melbourne to keep a day race but not be the first race. Surely Bernie is not thinking of making the malaysian, china, japanese, and australian races all night races. So quite simple, if melbourne doesn't want the night gp, we say we still want a day grand prix and we will lose our opening spot on the calendar. Melbourne is too good a grand prix to lose. Bernie is really treating us like crap.

[ClarkFan]

There seems to be an unhealthy obsession in F1 at the moment with night races :rolleyes: This story (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59058) in Autosport is about the costs of making Malaysia a night race.

As it says:
Bernie, I'm not bothered when I see the races. I don't see why Europe should have the races at "convenient" times, while the rest of the world has to lump it.

F1 is a World Championship, and I'm happy watching races at the local time where the event is happening, not my local time. That means I'm happy to be sitting in the dark while watching a race, but I have no interest sitting watching a race that's taking place in the dark.

That's part of the appeal of a World Championship.

I wonder if BE's noise isn't indicative of a real economic problem. Who outside of Europe watches the races on TV? The Speed broadcasts in the US get a pretty paltry viewership share - with ratings well under 2%. (The 8AM Sunday starts don't help - perhaps you Euros could have few night races.....? :s ) What is viewship like in Asia, South America, Africa, and Oceania? (I'm sure it's 100% in the Antarctic - little else to do.)

Maybe Bernie wants to move telecast hours because viewership outside Europe is weak. :\

ClarkFan

[AJP]

I don't think that these issues would be raised anywhere in the world. For example, it would not be raised at Silverstone, nor at Le Mans, nor at the Nurburgring, Philip Island, and probably many of the other circuits that are some distance from densely populated areas. Even Spa is not like Albert park, which is surrounded by densely populated areas.

And since Melbourne is losing 30 million each time that the race is held, I wouldn't mind betting that they would hedge at the additional headache of a night race.
OK...so I should have mentioned anywhere in the Southern Hemisphere that is holding a race near a residential area...which is bugger all. Australia is the only race that would have real troubles with night racing as Albert Park is the only place in Australia with the decent circuit that can hold an F1 race. So, if this was to happen, then we should accept it. otherwise we lose the race...

which would be a real shame as the tourist dollars that come in far exceed the 30 million dollar losses that happen over the race weekend.

I'd love the race to be at Phillip Island, but the track is too short.

[aryan]

I don't think that these issues would be raised anywhere in the world. For example, it would not be raised at Silverstone, nor at Le Mans, nor at the Nurburgring, Philip Island, and probably many of the other circuits


You are wrong on this Valve. This same issue is present nearly everywhere where the circuit is within the residential area. They have had the same arguments in Darlington airfield, at Monzta, etc.

My understanding is that Albert Park has been hosting this race since the mid 90s, so everyone moving to this suburb after that (Certainly more than 80% of the population) had known that there would be a F1 GrandPrix with lots of noise taking place once a year, and moved to Albert Park DESPITE knowing this fact. If they don't like it now and think they made the wrong choice, tough luck, they can move out now. Melbourne certainly has lots of nice VERY QUIET suburbs.

And is it just one retirement home we are talking about? How defficult is it to relocate one retirement home again?

It's losing 30 millions a year? So what? Did you just hear that Tiger Airlines has decided to base its Australian HQ in Melbourne simply because of the number of events Melbourne hosts? Do you know that that airline alone is going to create 1500 jobs in Australia, 90% of which will be in Melbourne? Do you know that there are people (like me) who have decided to come to Melbourne and live here specifically because of the number of events it hosts (When I was choosing where to live, knowing that Melbourne hosts the Australian Open and the GP weighed heavily on my mind, and I alone spend more than $70k annualy in the Victorian economy). When you say it loses 30 millions, do you (or can you) take into account all these indirect contributions it provides to the economy?

I know that we will lose our GP to QLD one the current contract is up. :( People are so short-sighted.

[ShiftingGears]

Interesting point about Monza there aryan. I'm not sure why it would be a legitimate reason for residents near Monza though, considering that noise is expected at an 85 year old Motor Racing Venue. It isn't like they bought a nice, peaceful house completely unaware that grands prix would be hosted next door, unless, of course, they are at least over 105 years old.

Also, I hope that the Queensland Tilke track doesn't suck.

[Valve Bounce]

You are wrong on this Valve. This same issue is present nearly everywhere where the circuit is within the residential area. They have had the same arguments in Darlington airfield, at Monzta, etc.

My understanding is that Albert Park has been hosting this race since the mid 90s, so everyone moving to this suburb after that (Certainly more than 80% of the population) had known that there would be a F1 GrandPrix with lots of noise taking place once a year, and moved to Albert Park DESPITE knowing this fact. If they don't like it now and think they made the wrong choice, tough luck, they can move out now. Melbourne certainly has lots of nice VERY QUIET suburbs.

And is it just one retirement home we are talking about? How defficult is it to relocate one retirement home again?

.

Are you sure? :confused:

[aryan]

Yepp, I am quite sure that I would rather relocate not just one, but many retirements homes and hospitals out of Albert Park rather than face Victoria lose its GP.

Putting aside arguments about prestige and worldwide fame, the GP brings a significant net profit to the Victorian economy (as argued in my previous post). I am sure those retirement homes need to get their funding from somewhere.

[Daika]

What is the point off having nights races? beside that it opens a new market with broadcasting rights (everybody can watch it). There has to be enough light/visibility, basically you will see the same as day races.

[waitey]

the melbourne race is not losing money!!!! they had a thing on the news before which said it is costing them 5 million dollars more to put the event on than what it pays back. BUT they are not taking into account all the extra costs, they are basically the costs spent on tickets, food at the track and merchandise at the track etc. What about all the money spent on hotels for people from overseas, interstate, the money they spend on every day activities like restaurants, public transport etc whilst on their visit, the publicity the event shows overseas and people think "oh, australia looks nice let's go there" and as ayran said, he is contributing 70k to the melbourne economy and largely moved here for events such as the melbourne gp being an attraction. Those costs are NOT MEASURED. there is way more hidden costs.

This event is producing millions that cannot be seen so im sick to death of everyone sayings it losing money and bad for taxpayers etc. It's so annoying because if the government cannot negotiate with Bernie to keep the race at daytime even if its the 2nd or 3rd race of the year, they will have to negotiate a night race. But the media shows the public incorrect facts like the gp is losing money and bad for us, and then the people will come to that conclusion, and the government will feel they need to represent the people's views and could axe it. I don't care if people have to listen to the cars at nightime for ONCE a year, it won't even be that late. The amount of parties that go on etc is way worse than some formula 1 cars for once a year. So if they have to negotiate a night race they should do at all costs, and axe thursday. The stupid media and some residents of melbourne are so gullable and stupid and don't realise how lucky we are to have a grand prix, we should be doing everything we can to keep it, and bernie should also be treating us much better!

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe the cars can be fitted with mufflers.

[waitey]

Maybe the cars can be fitted with mufflers.

haha no thankyou!!

[ArrowsFA1]

Maybe Bernie wants to move telecast hours because viewership outside Europe is weak.
He seems to want to go where the money is (e.g. Asia) away from F1's 'roots' in Europe, while beaming TV pictures back to Europe at a 'convenient' time.

I guess all this shows is that money & TV is what F1 is all about :dozey:

[Valve Bounce]

Enjoy: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_item.php

[Valve Bounce]

There's more on the costs and benefits to Melbourne and to Victoria. Here's a good article in pitpass: http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=31507

[aryan]

Oh, a pitpass reporting of a Herald Sun article...

How reliable is that?

[Ari]

the melbourne race is not losing money!!!! they had a thing on the news before which said it is costing them 5 million dollars more to put the event on than what it pays back. BUT they are not taking into account all the extra costs, they are basically the costs spent on tickets, food at the track and merchandise at the track etc. What about all the money spent on hotels for people from overseas, interstate, the money they spend on every day activities like restaurants, public transport etc whilst on their visit, the publicity the event shows overseas and people think "oh, australia looks nice let's go there" and as ayran said, he is contributing 70k to the melbourne economy and largely moved here for events such as the melbourne gp being an attraction. Those costs are NOT MEASURED. there is way more hidden costs.

This event is producing millions that cannot be seen so im sick to death of everyone sayings it losing money and bad for taxpayers etc. It's so annoying because if the government cannot negotiate with Bernie to keep the race at daytime even if its the 2nd or 3rd race of the year, they will have to negotiate a night race. But the media shows the public incorrect facts like the gp is losing money and bad for us, and then the people will come to that conclusion, and the government will feel they need to represent the people's views and could axe it. I don't care if people have to listen to the cars at nightime for ONCE a year, it won't even be that late. The amount of parties that go on etc is way worse than some formula 1 cars for once a year. So if they have to negotiate a night race they should do at all costs, and axe thursday. The stupid media and some residents of melbourne are so gullable and stupid and don't realise how lucky we are to have a grand prix, we should be doing everything we can to keep it, and bernie should also be treating us much better!


Actually, they do take into account all of the external purchases when doing their assessment of the Melbourne GP. Melbourne have bought some snazzy world-renowned software which does it all. Apparently other world-class events like Wimbleson tennis run the same stuff. It takes into account all local-traders and tourism etc.

That said, the model can never be perfect..... but they do take into account the whole bigger picture. Im preety sure the GP is losing money these days. Mainly because it's been in Melbourne so long now and it's mostly the F1 tragics who go since most people will tell you "oh I went a couple years ago, yeah it was preety good". Just like me with a few other sports, I like to go to check it out... but probably wouldnt do it again. Happy to have had a look none the less.

[Dazz9908]

Bernie should be careful,
Threaten people and Organisations and they may take up or else,
Hearin Oz the only time when we take notice of open wheelers is when the big circuses come (sure we our one lower classes but with little following/support)
to our shore (F1, Champ).
But give us the an ultimatum and we will replace it with V8 Supercars, which do have a very big following hear and NZ, and cost much less to hold and just as big crowds if not bigger.

And keep placing unreasonable demands on cities and countries that hold F1, outlaying high costs so a non demographic countries can watch it in their own time, at no real cost to them will drop F1, and more many couldn't be bothered taking up the slack.

May be Bernie with his billions should put his money where his mouth is and out lay the costs for this additional setup himself.

[Ari]

This one's for your Bernie!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://k53.pbase.com/u34/costi/upload/22637440.Candlelight.gif

[Valve Bounce]

Oh, a pitpass reporting of a Herald Sun article...

How reliable is that?

I don't really know mate, but to tell you the truth, I have absolutely no source of inside information here.

But I can tell you that during the Commonwealth games, Vic Market was deserted, but that's because I went there with my sister, the place looked like a ghost town, and the traders said they could use the aisles for bowling and not hit anyone.

[aryan]

I don't really know mate, but to tell you the truth, I have absolutely no source of inside information here.

But I can tell you that during the Commonwealth games, Vic Market was deserted, but that's because I went there with my sister, the place looked like a ghost town, and the traders said they could use the aisles for bowling and not hit anyone.

Pity I missed the commonwealth games, they should have been great!

My point is, all the analysis that the GP (and other major events in Melbourne) are losing big time, is based on the number of tourists which come into the city, the average amount they spend, the ticket prices and the cost of organising the event. They do not (and unless my economics is very wrong, cannot) measure intangible benefits these events bring to the city, like fame and prestige, which lead to both, people and companies
expanding their operations here.

[Schultz]

What about the non-financial benefits such as increasing the well-being and happiness of its citizens? Is that no longer important?

And as far as I'm concerned, when foreigners think of Australia they think of the Harbour Bridge the Opera House and Darling harbour. We need events like this to remind people that Australia also has a bloody good city down south. The benefits of this kind of exposure cannot be accurately measured.

[aryan]

What about the non-financial benefits such as increasing the well-being and happiness of its citizens? Is that no longer important?

Unfortunately no these days. I think it was the King of Bhutan who coined the term "Gross National Happiness" to counter the GNP and GDP which has obsessed all western countries.


And as far as I'm concerned, when foreigners think of Australia they think of the Harbour Bridge the Opera House and Darling harbour. We need events like this to remind people that Australia also has a bloody good city down south. The benefits of this kind of exposure cannot be accurately measured. :up:

[XR8]

Hey Shultz! If you havn't noticed,the OPERA HOUSE, HARBOUR BRIDGE and DARLING HARBOUR are all in the capital of AUSTRALIA "SYDNEY".So were should the AGP be held?

[ShiftingGears]

Ideally, where the best racetrack is.

[aryan]

Hey Shultz! If you havn't noticed,the OPERA HOUSE, HARBOUR BRIDGE and DARLING HARBOUR are all in the capital of AUSTRALIA "SYDNEY".So were should the AGP be held?


:laugh: :laugh: I see that Keating's recent comments are already having some effect.

I am sorry to disappoint you, but the Victorian government is the one currently paying Bernie for the privilege of hosting the GP, and the Victorian tax payers are the ones funding the bill (and supposedly losing money over this). It is only natural that this discussion is Victorian-centric.

Last time I checked, NSW didn't have a circuit capable of holding an F1 race.

[call_me_andrew]

And as far as I'm concerned, when foreigners think of Australia they think of the Harbour Bridge the Opera House and Darling harbour.

Here's what we actually think of: Paul Hogan, Steve Irwin, Fosters, and dingos that eat babies.

[XR8]

Andrew! You know why we import Fosters into the USA? Because we can't stand it over here! No self respecting AUSSIE would touch the stuff!

[Valve Bounce]

Andrew! You know why we import Fosters into the USA? Because we can't stand it over here! No self respecting AUSSIE would touch the stuff!


Bloody hell!! and to think I've been drinking the stuff for years. :(
I think I'll switch to Red Bull. :p :

[aryan]

Here's what we actually think of: Paul Hogan, Steve Irwin, Fosters, and dingos that eat babies.


Fosters..... :dozey: :rolleyes:

The stuff which is sold in US and Europe called Fosters, is definitely not Aussie beer. It's local junk wrapped in marketing traps.

Back in Europe, I was particularly fond of Central European beers (including Bavaria). Now in Australia, I can say that Aussies make some damn good beers, some of their premium stuff is even better than many of thte world's most famous beers.

Fosters...my friend, is now among those.

[call_me_andrew]

Andrew! You know why we import Fosters into the USA? Because we can't stand it over here! No self respecting AUSSIE would touch the stuff!

Technically, you EXPORT Fosters. I don't know of anyone, in any country, that drinks Fosters, nor do I drink it myself. However, the "Australian for Beer" slogan has always been popular in the U.S.

I also considered including Outback Steakhouse, but since that's not an Australian company I was afraid I would have crossed a line.

[Somebody]

Hey Shultz! If you havn't noticed,the OPERA HOUSE, HARBOUR BRIDGE and DARLING HARBOUR are all in the capital of AUSTRALIA "SYDNEY".So were should the AGP be held?

Funny... everything on Google seems to suggest Canberra's the capital... http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Australia+canberra

[aryan]

Funny... everything on Google seems to suggest Canberra's the capital... http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Australia+canberra


Everyone knows Canberra is the capital. For the record, when the Commonwealth of Australia became independent, Melbourne and Sydney couldn't decide on which one should become the capital, so instead they built a city in between themselves called Canberra, and made it the capital.

What he was reffering to is that Sydney is the economical capital of Australia, to which any Victorian will answer that Melbourne is the Art capital, as well as the "Events" capital, of not just Australia, but the southern hemisphere :)

We are probably getting off topic now, maybe it's time for me to leave this thread.

[V12]

Speaking as a European, I'd actually hate to see Melbourne go to a night race. From staying up as a young kid with a few snacks to watch the Adelaide races to the beer-fuelled all-nighters of today, the Australian GP late nighters have become a bit of a ritual for me, if any race should go to a night race it should be the Asian races (not including Japan) - since they are usually on at like 6am or 8 or 9am, now THAT is an awkward time to have a race, waking up early on a Sunday morning? No way lol!



But to be honest that is besides the point, I'm anti-globalization and against the de-Europeanisation (I know that isn't a word but..) of F1, but if you ARE going to hold events in different parts of the world, it's only fair that it should be held at a sociable hour for the actual country where the race is taking place, IMHO.

[call_me_andrew]

But to be honest that is besides the point, I'm anti-globalization and against the de-Europeanisation (I know that isn't a word but..) of F1, but if you ARE going to hold events in different parts of the world, it's only fair that it should be held at a sociable hour for the actual country where the race is taking place, IMHO.


How is 8pm not a sociable hour?

While I agree with you on the anti-globalization note, I wouldn't mind having a few more races in my time zone.

[rah]

Ideally, where the best racetrack is.

So back to Adelaide?

[rah]

Everyone knows Canberra is the capital. For the record, when the Commonwealth of Australia became independent, Melbourne and Sydney couldn't decide on which one should become the capital, so instead they built a city in between themselves called Canberra, and made it the capital.

What he was reffering to is that Sydney is the economical capital of Australia, to which any Victorian will answer that Melbourne is the Art capital, as well as the "Events" capital, of not just Australia, but the southern hemisphere :)

We are probably getting off topic now, maybe it's time for me to leave this thread.

Meh, Sydney Vs Melbourne. I know where I would rather live. Byron Bay.

[Valve Bounce]

Meh, Sydney Vs Melbourne. I know where I would rather live. Byron Bay.


Sorry, but Byron Bay is too pretentious, too involved in self indulgent internal politics by various factions to the detriment of the town, too full of visitors clogging up the entire town, and let's face it: too neglected as one can see if you just walk down the street outside the Supermarket. UGH!!

As I understand from relatives resident there, much of the money is thrown away in legal fees from defending the various actions by the factions.

Give me a place in Coopers Shoot anytime. :)