Mercedes AMG Petronas W14

[Nitrodaze]

https://car-images.bauersecure.com/wp-images/160676/1040x0/w14_022.jpg?scale=down
The profile from the side looks very much like the infamous W13.

https://car-images.bauersecure.com/wp-images/160676/1040x0/w14_023.jpg?scale=down
Courtesy Car Magazine (https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/mercedes-benz/w14/)

From this angle, you can see the engine cover is wider and less floor is exposed compared to the W13. I would guess that they have changed the floor. The endplates of the front wing seem to have been tweaked. Just under the endplates are three little winglets which are completely detached from the endplate. It clearly looks like an evolution from last year's car. It is interesting that Toto was saying that the W13 was overweight. So we can guess that they have found a few tenths there. But is that enough? They sorted the porpoising issue last year, hence, l expect they focused on other areas under the skin.

The tip of the monocoque just ahead of the front wing has a pair of little nostrils. You would almost miss them if you are not looking intently.

[airshifter]

I think being mostly black now hides many of the changes made. The upper bathtub is fairly pronounced, has a couple vents per side in the inside rail, and runs all the ay to the back of the car. The sidepods have changed shape quite a bit as well. Taller, not quite as wide at the widest point, but they run much farther back on the car. Much less visible floor, especially at the rear of the car.

Merc is one of a couple of teams that has worked a great deal on the front wing to comply with the newer regs, but still induce outwash. Hard to say how much difference it will make, but it seems in line with their concept of the narrower sidepods.

Toto has said to expect changes to hit the track in testing, so hard to say which design ideas are legit and long term, and if any might just be distractions to keep everyone guessing.

[Nitrodaze]

Usually, they make several cycles of changes to the design. Hence it is expected that the first cycle shall be in testing and from testing the next cycle shall most likely be at the first race as they learn new things about the new design. Taking a closer look at Ferrari, they are looking quite menacing. Of course, we have not seen Redbull yet. I am expecting Redbull to evolve further and maintain the status of being the car to beat. It would be interesting to see how Redbull has coped with the changes in the regulation which they heavily criticised. And how they are affected by the reduced wind tunnel time imposed on them. I really wonder if wind tunnel time has any effect on capable teams like Redbull given the engineering software that they bring to bear on their design efforts.

It is interesting to see the air intake vents on the Mercedes pods have been dropped lower it seems. Almost like it is hoovering air from under the front suspensions. The air intake design for the engine is revolutionary. Unlike any other teams. I hope the car doesn't suffer heating problems at slow speeds, like when driving behind safety cars etc.

[Mia 01]

My judgement will come after the upcoming test. I don´t understand all the technical development.

[airshifter]

My judgement will come after the upcoming test. I don´t understand all the technical development.

I think sometimes that is a good thing. People that think they understand all the functions and how all the little aero changes will work spend weeks having arguments about how it will make the cars faster or slower, most often quickly proven wrong when they hit the track and the sometimes simple looking cars are just as fast.

From my basic understanding the reason Merc and to some extent Williams are considered the odd man out is that they are using very narrow sidepods. Most teams are using sidepods much larger to control the flow of air to the rear tires, which are one of the least aerodynamic surfaces on the car.

[Nitrodaze]

I think sometimes that is a good thing. People that think they understand all the functions and how all the little aero changes will work spend weeks having arguments about how it will make the cars faster or slower, most often quickly proven wrong when they hit the track and the sometimes simple looking cars are just as fast.

From my basic understanding the reason Merc and to some extent Williams are considered the odd man out is that they are using very narrow sidepods. Most teams are using sidepods much larger to control the flow of air to the rear tires, which are one of the least aerodynamic surfaces on the car.

I doubt that is the case. The side pods are bigger than those on the W13. They seem to have instability at the front of the car. The front suspension may be the culprit. Even at the Silverstone shakedown, the car already showed signs of instability at the corners. Whatever the case, the gamble to evolve the W13 is not looking promising for Mercedes. They are clearly behind and losing valuable testing track time. They may start the season like they did last season; deep in the midfield where the cars have got better and may be troublesome for them. Disappointing!

[Nitrodaze]

According to seven times world champion Sir Lewis Hamilton, the Mercedes is one second and a half off the pace of the Redbull. That is much further back than they were to RedBull last season. It would take some kind of miracle for Mercedes and any of its drivers to win any of the titles this season it would appear. My money is on Alonso to win the 2023 driver's title this season. Alonso versus Verstappen would be something to behold don't you think?

But wait a minute!

Let us review the situation for a minute. With all the data gathered from what was a terrible season for them, Mercedes turns up with a relatively slower car than the horrid W13. It makes you wonder, doesn't it? If the situation is really this, any conspiracy theorist would draw one of two conclusions and one of them is very likely to be right. And they as follows:-

1. The new Mercedes design office lacks objectivity. They have stubbornly put forward the dud of last season into this 2023 season refusing to accept that the W13 was fundamentally flawed.

2. The other, is that the last three seasons, including this one, are choreographed to produce a desired outcome and Mercedes is in on it. They have won too many times, it is someone else's turn.

By the way, this is speculation. But then again, we know if Mercedes has really tried to push forward, they would at least be within half a second off the pace of Redbull. As this is where everyone was quietly thinking they would most likely start the season. But a second and a half off the pace is quite unbelievable. There is a whiff of something stinky going on.

[airshifter]

I personally don't buy any of the conspiracy theories. Merc got barely beat in '21, then got it wrong in '22. They aren't going to give up titles for the show, and it would be too hard to "hide the money" at that level for any fixing to be going on. And if you see the Netflix clip of Toto trying to push the safety factor last year when they had it all wrong, you can see how desperate he was to claw back any advantage and get back in the hunt.


Though Q3, not looking as doom and gloom as some think. I don't know that I buy Lewis's claim of 1.5 seconds slower, but I expect RB and a few others might uncork true performance in qually and then we will finally see.

[Nitrodaze]

I personally don't buy any of the conspiracy theories. Merc got barely beat in '21, then got it wrong in '22. They aren't going to give up titles for the show, and it would be too hard to "hide the money" at that level for any fixing to be going on. And if you see the Netflix clip of Toto trying to push the safety factor last year when they had it all wrong, you can see how desperate he was to claw back any advantage and get back in the hunt.


Though Q3, not looking as doom and gloom as some think. I don't know that I buy Lewis's claim of 1.5 seconds slower, but I expect RB and a few others might uncork true performance in qually and then we will finally see.

I agree with that. Russell finished 0.635 from Verstappen. Which is more respectable. But still woeful by their standards. The bottom line is they made changes to produce what they call the W14, but it has not made any relative step forward from where they were last season. One could argue that this is evidence of brain drain from the Mercedes design office. Whoever penned this car should be shown the door in my opinion.

The Aston has real pace it seems but does it have race pace?

[Zico]

According to seven times world champion Sir Lewis Hamilton, the Mercedes is one second and a half off the pace of the Redbull... There is a whiff of something stinky going on.

The time sheets are more truthful. Yeah, 6 tenths off Red Bull isn't exactly great news but at least they are still up there.

[Nitrodaze]

The time sheets are more truthful. Yeah, 6 tenths off Red Bull isn't exactly great news but at least they are still up there.

Up there in 6th and 7th you mean. On other faster tracks, the one-and-a-half gap would materialise l think. They have stuffed it again but would claw back their performance as the season goes on. But, l fear they would most likely to miss the boat again this season. It is a great surprise to see they turned up with the W13 in black and called it W14. I suspect they overspent last season carrying on with the W13 when they should have put that time and money on a revamped W14.

They are behaving and looking very much like a midfield team at the moment

[Zico]

Up there in 6th and 7th you mean. On other faster tracks, the one-and-a-half gap would materialise l think. They have stuffed it again but would claw back their performance as the season goes on. But, l fear they would most likely to miss the boat again this season. It is a great surprise to see they turned up with the W13 in black and called it W14. I suspect they overspent last season carrying on with the W13 when they should have put that time and money on a revamped W14.

They are behaving and looking very much like a midfield team at the moment

Last year they had a car with an inherant flaw which they also struggled to understand and so they couldn't really pull very much good data that was going to get their 23 car competitive from the get go.They are about where I expected them to be.

They are probably about 5-6 months behind everyone else in terms of development because of the fresh start... while their competitors have evolutions of the 22 cars, when you consider that, to still be 3rd/4th best car, that's really not that bad IMO.

If they fall further back I'll be more inclined to agree with you but its only Q3 of the first race of the season so don't be too hasty in judging them. I think they will develop fast and close that current gap right down to be competitive before the seasons halfway point.

[Nitrodaze]

Last year they had a car with an inherant flaw which they also struggled to understand and so they couldn't really pull very much good data that was going to get their 23 car competitive from the get go.They are about where I expected them to be.

They are probably about 5-6 months behind everyone else in terms of development because of the fresh start... while their competitors have evolutions of the 22 cars, when you consider that, to still be 3rd/4th best car, that's really not that bad IMO.

If they fall further back I'll be more inclined to agree with you but its only Q3 of the first race of the season so don't be too hasty in judging them. I think they will develop fast and close that current gap right down to be competitive before the seasons halfway point.

I really hope they can get competitive by halfway point, but that could be way too late to be in the fight for the championship if Ferrari gets their act together and Aston Martin improve further as they understand their car.

[Tazio]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-aston-martin-two-seconds-in-six-months/

:sailor: Sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry!

Just kidding. Toto seems to be very humble about this, even to the point of being happy for AM.
However, I wonder what he thinks off the record.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[Nitrodaze]

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-aston-martin-two-seconds-in-six-months/

:sailor: Sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry!

Just kidding. Toto seems to be very humble about this, even to the point of being happy for AM.
However, I wonder what he thinks off the record.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

That is the point though. If Aston Martin can make such a step forward, this is a yardstick for Mercedes. It indicates that they have been underprepared for this season. Or they lack the personnel capable of producing a championship-winning car. The W14 looks good but it is a disgrace for the Mercedes brand. I find it quite unbelievable that they are not irked by the way the car has turned out. Eventually does not cut it.

[Nitrodaze]

What are the factors that have led to the slump at Mercedes besides the regulations that they do not seem to ber able to get right after two goes at it?

Two key factors come to mind:-

1. The loss of Nikki Lauda
2. Possible key personnel leaving or defecting to competitors of Mercedes.

For the second point, l wonder if that alone is enough to account for their clear loss of intellectual edge that has seen them lead the grid for many years. They still have the essential core personnel in place. So what else is the issue with Mercedes?

[Zico]

What are the factors that have led to the slump at Mercedes besides the regulations that they do not seem to ber able to get right after two goes at it?

Two key factors come to mind:-

1. The loss of Nikki Lauda
2. Possible key personnel leaving or defecting to competitors of Mercedes.

For the second point, l wonder if that alone is enough to account for their clear loss of intellectual edge that has seen them lead the grid for many years. They still have the essential core personnel in place. So what else is the issue with Mercedes?

They have lost a few key staff, Fallows to AM for one.. who co-incidently are now doing pretty nicely.

For me a fair chunk of it is also because the RB/Honda and Ferrari PU's have now been up to Mercedes PU performance for the last 2 years..
Throw in the new ground effect regs which they seem to have gone in the wrong direction with... and they can no longer just turn up the wick on the PU's to overcome any aero deficit like they used to be able to do at will, with so much in reserve.

Unfortunately they have stuck to their 'zero' pods concept believing their wind tunnel data and perhaps the Aero Engineers beliefs that they could make it work ... whether that is solely the CFD/aerodynamicists fault or not, cannot be known by us... but as team principle the buck ultimately stops with Toto.

Lewis has also been very vocal that he was not listened to on what was required and direction to go in for the 23 car. All is not rosy for them right now but if it was up to me I'd write off this season if they don't become competitive by Monaco. If they cant make a breakthrough it might make more sense to start running a B car with the whole RB concept at the front developing it early for 24 over the remainder of the season.

[Nitrodaze]

They have lost a few key staff, Fallows to AM for one.. who co-incidently are now doing pretty nicely.

For me a fair chunk of it is also because the RB/Honda and Ferrari PU's have now been up to Mercedes PU performance for the last 2 years..
Throw in the new ground effect regs which they seem to have gone in the wrong direction with... and they can no longer just turn up the wick on the PU's to overcome any aero deficit like they used to be able to do at will, with so much in reserve.

Unfortunately they have stuck to their 'zero' pods concept believing their wind tunnel data and perhaps the Aero Engineers beliefs that they could make it work ... whether that is solely the CFD/aerodynamicists fault or not, cannot be known by us... but as team principle the buck ultimately stops with Toto.

Lewis has also been very vocal that he was not listened to on what was required and direction to go in for the 23 car. All is not rosy for them right now but if it was up to me I'd write off this season if they don't become competitive by Monaco. If they cant make a breakthrough it might make more sense to start running a B car with the whole RB concept at the front developing it early for 24 over the remainder of the season.

It is disturbing to hear that their design office is not aligned with their most successful driver. It is sort of looking like a " we know best " mentality which usually very subjective.

[airshifter]

It is disturbing to hear that their design office is not aligned with their most successful driver. It is sort of looking like a " we know best " mentality which usually very subjective.

I doubt there are any drivers around that know more about engineering a F1 car than the engineers know. I'm sure Lewis had the drawings on a napkin of how to make the best car?


No doubt every driver wants a great car and gives input. From that point it gets complex fairly quickly in the current day and age. There are limits everywhere, and the aero alone is more complex than most of us would even understand unless broken down. It's not as if any team intentionally gives the drivers a car that they won't like.

[Nitrodaze]

I doubt there are any drivers around that know more about engineering a F1 car than the engineers know. I'm sure Lewis had the drawings on a napkin of how to make the best car?


No doubt every driver wants a great car and gives input. From that point it gets complex fairly quickly in the current day and age. There are limits everywhere, and the aero alone is more complex than most of us would even understand unless broken down. It's not as if any team intentionally gives the drivers a car that they won't like.

If any engineer designs anything without the feedback of those who shall use the product, it is very unlikely to meet the expectation of those that will use it. Most products fail in the market for this very reason. The engineers are also not f1 racing drivers themselves. The feedback of the driver is crucial to producing a successful car. The inputs of Schumacher helped turn the Brawn back into a championship-winning car, and the continued input of Hamilton and Rosberg helped to sustain the edge the car to continue to have to be the car to beat for many years after.

I suppose the W13 and W14 cars are crap {crap is a strong word but it is compared to their pre-2022 reg cars} maybe for the absence of this very crucial component of the design process. But then again, l understand where your motivation to write your comment is originating from.

[janneppi]

If you can give drivers credit for making the car fast can you then assign blame for drivers for when the car is crap?

Sent from my Takapalk.

[Nitrodaze]

If you can give drivers credit for making the car fast can you then assign blame for drivers for when the car is crap?

Sent from my Takapalk.

I know we have heavily criticized the Mercedes W14. And l doubt all those who are saying Mercedes would be faster if they adopt the Redbull sidepod concept. I think Mercedes is developing a new concept that may be the next-generation platform to beat. New concepts take time to mature. And they are honing it and tweaking it. But developing a new concept is usually done at the expense of competitiveness at the outset. Drivers and fans not used to Mercedes being slower than the competition are frustrated and occasionally strong words are used.

I kind of get it now, and l think this no-sidepod concept will come good in time. But l think their CFD and wind tunnel work missed something. And that surprised them when they finally witnessed how far off they were from where they hoped to be. It is not about blame. It had to be said openly what was not working so that it can be fixed. Not saying anything would not help them recognize the pain points of the car.

[Nitrodaze]

Finally, Mercedes reshuffles their technical team. Aliison is back and l say hurry!!! But it was claimed he was promoted to Chief Technical Officer but Elliot is now moving into that position in what looks like a swap. It would seem Elliot is being promoted by the look of things. Only in F1 would you see people promoted for doing a bad job.

I bet Masi would be back to wreak havoc on the sport soon as well.

Anyway, Allison back in charge is music to my ears.

[Nitrodaze]

What upgrades would Mercedes bring to Imola?

Whatever it is, speculations suggest there may be changes to the side pod and front suspensions. Those alone suggest the enormity of how they got the design wrong in the first place. Suffice to say, Elliot has become somewhat infamous to Mercedes fans.

[airshifter]

Well the zero pod and slim pod are dead. The suspension changes are easy to spot as well. Hopefully this will be a step forward for the team.

With Monaco being so aero limited, I'm surprised they didn't test the suspension only here. Besides not getting much higher speed data, now they risk destruction of the new sidepods. Having data on just the suspension changes would seem to be a good thing moving forward as well. Then again if they want to catch AMR they might have chosen to just roll the dice and hope it all comes together.

[Nitrodaze]

Well the zero pod and slim pod are dead. The suspension changes are easy to spot as well. Hopefully this will be a step forward for the team.

With Monaco being so aero limited, I'm surprised they didn't test the suspension only here. Besides not getting much higher speed data, now they risk destruction of the new sidepods. Having data on just the suspension changes would seem to be a good thing moving forward as well. Then again if they want to catch AMR they might have chosen to just roll the dice and hope it all comes together.

I can see why they would want to hang on till Barcelona, to roll out all the goodies. Due to the nature of the short narrow track of Monaco, they are very unlikely to learn anything from putting the upgrades on the cars. Besides, Monaco requires a very specific and different car setup relative to other tracks, so it makes sense to go forward with known quantities that would be easier to tweak for this race.

I think the changes to the front suspension may have prompted the redesign of the side pods and maybe other things at the rear of the car. To be fair nobody would be realistically expecting the Mercedes to be faster than their usual pace at this race. But this race is not about downforce or engine grunt but more about good balance and excellent slow and fast corners speed. If Olivier Panis can win here with a midfield car, an upset may well happen this weekend. All eyes are on Alonso and Leclerc. But Russell is a dark horse that may well spring a surprise as well.

[Nitrodaze]

I really hope they have not thrown the zero-side-pod concept out of the window for good. I think it was not fully developed by the time they chose to use it. There may well be untapped potential in the concept, hence may require further development, hopefully for a future return after all its kinks have been eradicated.

[Nitrodaze]

So what's new on the European version of the Mercedes W14 you might ask. Well loads and nobody explains it better than Sam Collins of the F1 media team. See his highly rated and detailed explanation here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irXb77WSzzs). As suspected, Mercedes has changed the front suspension array to improve front stability during changes in speed dynamics of the front end. The side pods have flared out, much like the Ferrari/Alpine concept with a guttering running above the sidepod and tapering towards the rear. The floor has changed with interesting underfloor channels replacing the corrugated elements of the previous car. The exposed floor area is now narrower. And the sidepod air orifice is now very much the traditional rectangular square, reminiscent of the W12. The shape of the sidepod covering is vastly different from the no-sidepod composition which had elements sticking out, but are now better integrated into the aerodynamic program of the design. Every component behind the front wheel, now take on some form of aerodynamic duty. And this design language carries through to the rear of the car where interesting winglets can be found.

There are obvious elements on the skin of the car that indicates that this was a hurried job and may suggest that the upgrade work is not complete; there is more to come, l suspect. At a minimum, we would expect the profile to return to the flawless smoothness of typical Mercedes F1 racecars.

I would be remiss to not pay tribute to Sam Collins. He has filled a gap that none of the conventional media has filled convincingly. An objective thorough and detailed technical analysis of the modern-day F1 car. He has carved a niche for himself without negating all existing concepts like the Kravitz Notebook or the famous grid-walk. Real petrolheads really care more about what Collins has to say than all others. But that is not to say we do not care about taking in the show and glamour of it. Sam Collins is the Councillor for Hitchin Highbury in the UK and he has hereby put Hitchin Highbury on the F1 map. If you are new to Sam Collins, head to the F1.com website and check out his many works.

[Nitrodaze]

This new form Mercedes is showing may well put to bed all the talk of Hamilton to Ferrari. But Sainz is showing that the Ferrari proposition is still very much an attractive one. What do you think?

[airshifter]

This new form Mercedes is showing may well put to bed all the talk of Hamilton to Ferrari. But Sainz is showing that the Ferrari proposition is still very much an attractive one. What do you think?

I would have thought that when Ferrari management made it clear no offer was made to Hamilton would put all the rumors to bed. Sure anything can happen in F1, but it's not as if every team wants him on the team for the price he commands, nor does he probably want to race for just any team that offers the right price.

It takes two to tango, and I doubt Lewis is looking to move to any struggling team.



As for the new car, I'm waiting to see how the upgrades work. Time will tell, but Merc themselves have admitted that the Barcelona track would favor the car more than most tracks, and is almost the polar opposite of Canada in terms of setup.

As for Sam Colins, I think he does much better on the tech segments vs anything live or racing related. I know Palmer often has to correct his thinking on race strategy and such. But most of his car related segments seem fairly good. At the same time, I don't take what he says as any more valid than some of the others... he's just reporting what is thought and known about the cars.

[Nitrodaze]

I would have thought that when Ferrari management made it clear no offer was made to Hamilton would put all the rumors to bed. Sure anything can happen in F1, but it's not as if every team wants him on the team for the price he commands, nor does he probably want to race for just any team that offers the right price.

It takes two to tango, and I doubt Lewis is looking to move to any struggling team.



As for the new car, I'm waiting to see how the upgrades work. Time will tell, but Merc themselves have admitted that the Barcelona track would favor the car more than most tracks, and is almost the polar opposite of Canada in terms of setup.

As for Sam Colins, I think he does much better on the tech segments vs anything live or racing related. I know Palmer often has to correct his thinking on race strategy and such. But most of his car related segments seem fairly good. At the same time, I don't take what he says as any more valid than some of the others... he's just reporting what is thought and known about the cars.

As usual, what's new?

Firstly, l would not call Ferrari a struggling team. Like Mercedes, they are trying to understand their car. The upgrades they brought for Barcelona are yet to be analyzed and understood. Sainz's pace in Q3 at Barcelona shows there is untapped performance in that Ferrari, that is not what a struggling team looks like. You may argue, so did Norris, but Mclaren is not struggling either.

I agree Hamilton may well stay with Mercedes but the delay in agreeing terms could suggest that anything is possible in the short term while the contract has not been nailed down.

The Aston Martin upgrade looks interesting. It certainly suggests that they are likely to have a hike in performance if they have their high-speed corning and speed on the straights sorted. If we have a dry running on Sunday, we shall know the relative performance delta between the teams in the lower sharp end of the grid.

On Sam Colins, he does the engineering and technical analysis of the racing; cars etc and Palmer does the racing analysis; strategy, race craft etc. They complement each other perfectly and l really enjoy watching their stuff.

[airshifter]

Well I consider Merc to have had a hard time coming to grips with the car this year, and they are at 150% of the WCC points of Ferrari. If you look at the top of the field, they are the ones with the real issues at this point. They have been better in qualification for sure, but one lap pace does help much if race pace isn't there.

At this point I don't think Lewis is talking to anyone other than Merc personally, and they seem to always push contracts until late in the game.



ETA: If F1 TV would get rid of Buxton entirely it would be a better experience! Most of the others do well in their respective roles, even those that have less intensive roles. Buxton comes across like a know it all trying to add drama even when it doesn't exist.

[Nitrodaze]

Well I consider Merc to have had a hard time coming to grips with the car this year, and they are at 150% of the WCC points of Ferrari. If you look at the top of the field, they are the ones with the real issues at this point. They have been better in qualification for sure, but one lap pace does help much if race pace isn't there.

At this point I don't think Lewis is talking to anyone other than Merc personally, and they seem to always push contracts until late in the game.



ETA: If F1 TV would get rid of Buxton entirely it would be a better experience! Most of the others do well in their respective roles, even those that have less intensive roles. Buxton comes across like a know it all trying to add drama even when it doesn't exist.

His body language does not gell well with the rest of the team. He talks the talk but he does not come across as a team player. I agree, l thought he would be the anchorman to pull the team together much like Simon Lazenby does for Sky. They are a new team though, so it may improve with time. Unfortunately, the rest of the team are impressing better and outshining him.

That said, Buxton is one of those original and disruptive F1 media thinkers, going by his previous blogs and podcasts before joining F1 Media. He is considerably more experienced than the two that flank him. His previous team collaborations have not been a lasting affair, it seems but l might be very wrong here. This gig seems like a great opportunity for Buxton to shine as a presenter and leader. For whatever reason, he just does not seem very comfortable in the team. I think he is very capable of so much more under the right circumstances. I just hope that such circumstances does not dampen the refreshing delivery from the other two.

[Nitrodaze]

I look at the last three races and wonder if Mercedes can hang on to second in the championship. By their form in those last three races they should be comfortably ahead. But they have thrown away points due to on-track antics. We have seen two near-misses that could have taken both Mercedes cars out of the race. Both involve Russell blocking Hamilton.

There seems to be a pointless rivalry brewing between the drivers at this point where there is nothing to gain in the driver's championship but plenty to lose in the constructor's championship. Mercedes's philosophy of letting their drivers race each other is looking like the very reason they may lose second place in the constructors to Ferrari.

At this point of the season, most teams would place their lot behind the driver with the most points. Yet we have seen the prospects of their driver with the most points compromised by not affording him the most opportunity on track to maximize his chance in the races. There have been occasions when one driver with the faster newer tires have been left running behind the other with older slower tire and Mercedes has failed to make the switch and when they do, it is usually after a delayed decision.

Looking into Mercedes, l feel they are not respecting their seven-time world champion properly. And Russell appears to be overcompensating to try to beat Hamilton and making costly mistakes in the process.

Mercedes seems to be their own enemy as they fight themselves and give away points in the process. This is obviously a sign of things to come.

If Mercedes can produce a championship-winning car, the rivalry between the two Brits is going to be huge, possibly ugly, and polarizing in a team with predominantly British employees. It would be a re-enactment of the Hamilton-Rosburg battles with a twist.

Bring on 2024!

[Used to be Starter]

I realize it is best for the team overall to not have their drivers contest with each other, but if you want to attract the best drivers to your team letting them duke it out on track is good for the sport.

[Nitrodaze]

I realize it is best for the team overall to not have their drivers contest with each other, but if you want to attract the best drivers to your team letting them duke it out on track is good for the sport.

Well, Redbull did not think so. As they compromised Perez to build a car for Verstappen to win the championship with ease.

With Mercedes, the team is fighting for second in the championship and Hamilton is fighting to snatch second place from Perez. The Russell situation is only compromising both of these aspirations, l think. This is not the sort of season to let their drivers race themselves.

[The Black Knight]

I would rather less money and more wind tunnell time than 2nd in the championship if I were Mercedes.

[Nitrodaze]

I would rather less money and more wind tunnel time than 2nd in the championship if I were Mercedes.

I think that is just what Aston Martin is doing. Giving up top position in the championship for more wind tunnel time in 2024 where they expect to be even closer to Redbull than they were this year.

It would not surprise me if Ferrari suddenly backed off to let Merccedes take 2nd place.

[Nitrodaze]

Check this out https://medium.com/motor-racing/bugging-rivary-of-mercedes-ba4c682d3c95