WRC2 news & rumors 2023

[Sulland]

What teams and drivers will be competing for 2. layer victory in 2023.

Manu supported teams

- Toksport/Skoda x 2
- MSport
- Hyundai
- Citroen
- ?


Privat teams

- Katjo/ Lotto Skoda
- Ingram/ Skoda UK
- Solberg/ VAG (Polo or new Fabia, depending on test)
- Printsport?
- ?

[Bartolbia84]

Cachon (Esp) start in 7 event with Citroën C3 rally2 by Sport & You

Start program in Rallye Montecarlo

[mousti]

Toksport 1 and 2 probably again with Mikkelsen, Pajari, Lindholm+ maybe Fourmaux, Gryazin, Solberg, Bulacia etc.. Lots of possibilities there..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[manthey]

Toksport 1 and 2 probably again with Mikkelsen, Pajari, Lindholm+ maybe Fourmaux, Gryazin, Solberg, Bulacia etc.. Lots of possibilities there..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met TapatalkNice lineup this year

[AnttiL]

I would guess Mikkelsen, Pajari and Lindholm are at Toksport, maybe someone else as well.

Suninen with Hyundai? Huttunen with M-Sport?

I think Rossel's program was already confirmed.

[M5]

I am guessing you will see 3 Polos are moving to sweden soon.
Chassisnummers 105 and 106 + a used one - so they will have 2 for each surface.

[rallyfiend]

Not sure that Mikkelsen will be with Skoda next year...

[Galev62]

Huttunen wrc2 career is probably over because of no funding. Skoda cut toksport funding and Mikkelsen doesnt want to pay to drive so maybe he wont be with them. Fourmaux will probably drive with the fiesta rally 2 if he gets funding.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FiuXmiFXoAIcVJ8?format=jpg&name=large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Meeke would be an amazing addition to WRC2 !

Maybe Mikkelsen will try to get some drives in a Rally1 (part-time or renting), with nothing else to prove in a Rally2...

[RS]

If Meeke is testing on snowy tarmac in France then he’s in for Monte at least. Hard to imagine them running Mikkelsen and Meeke all season alongside the youngsters, so maybe Andreas has found work elsewhere.

[Lead]

I also agree that there is no point for Mikkelsen to continue in WRC2. Everyone knows his speed there and more wins will do exactly nothing for him to improve his position. To see Meeke there would be great.

[RS]

Meeke test:

https://youtu.be/gS8Bxsq3_gU

[rallyfiend]

Wonder who he used as co-driver. Seemed to be wearing a Red Bull helmet.

[becher]

Wonder who he used as co-driver. Seemed to be wearing a Red Bull helmet.

Seb Marshall?

[RS]

Other videos confirm Seb Marshall.

[atsiotras79]

Ola Floene…

[RS]

PlanetMarcus reports Toksport will start with two crews at Rally Duvuloy to prepare for 2023: https://planetemarcus.com/meeke-en-essais-avec-la-nouvelle-skoda-fabia-rally2/

[seb_sh]

Leo Rossel will have a Citroen Rally2 Programme. https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing/status/1597910247590354944?t=a41BnbnapzZpbYGNrr2LlQ&s=19

[jcevc]

Leo Rossel will have a Citroen Rally2 Programme. https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing/status/1597910247590354944?t=a41BnbnapzZpbYGNrr2LlQ&s=19

Probably in French national championship on few events - such is the description of prize for winner of Stellantis cup.

[Jarek Z]

Grégoire Munster is planning a full WRC2 campaign in 2023:
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc2/munster-eyes-full-wrc2-campaign/

[RS]

Today Lindholm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTNl1dTeUvI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W3qNjbrwsQ

Looks like he is running the car softer than Meeke.

[RS]

And another including recovery from a small off:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H3ASCUSsI4

[fiscorpun]

Where is Lukyanuk?
:(

[Negaiss]

Where is Lukyanuk?
:(

Lukyanuk is a very good and supertalanted driver. He was born Russia and is russian citizen. Lukyanuk is one of those Loeb type talents with no money. All this time Lukyanuks sponsors was Russian companies. And then the World changed. It is hard to say it, bet think it is over for Lukyanuk. We have to thank him for his mega sideways jumps in Estonia.

[mknight]

Totally nothing to do with his constant crashing. Pre-event tests, shakedowns, 2-3 times during same rally.

[RS]

Lukyanuk said he would not drive whilst the war is ongoing.

Curious to see who is in the Skoda today, i guess Pajari, but?..

[PLuto]

Lukyanuk is a very good and supertalanted driver. He was born Russia and is russian citizen. Lukyanuk is one of those Loeb type talents with no money. All this time Lukyanuks sponsors was Russian companies. And then the World changed. It is hard to say it, bet think it is over for Lukyanuk. We have to thank him for his mega sideways jumps in Estonia.

You forgot also one more factor - change of promoter in ERC.

[dimviii]

You mean that older promoter was sponsoring him?

[PLuto]

You mean that older promoter was sponsoring him?

I have never told this. But there can be other ways of support... Basically, also before start of war at Ukraine it was almost sure he will not continue...

[RS]

Seajets, who were a sponsor of ERC under Eurosport's tenure also stepped in and supported certain drivers when they needed help (Lukyanuk, Ingram)

[AndersX]

Wrc and Erc need guys like Lukyanuk - he is 100% McRae style driver - crazy attractive style, accepts only win or crash on way to win. Spectators loved him, while he would need some crazy energy drink sponsor behind - some brave marketing guys who would knew how to pack this type of driver - he is not material for glancy corporate marketing budget. Aftet ther war world will be different; russian national athlets will have challanges. I think we must forget about him, unfortunately.

[RS]

Pajari was in the new Skoda today so we can assume he is getting one for Monte.

Will there be a day 4 of the test 🤔

[er88]

Pajari was in the new Skoda today so we can assume he is getting one for Monte.

Will there be a day 4 of the test So who's all in the new Skoda for Monte?

[Bartolbia84]

Marquito Bulacia

MCO + 6 events

🚗 Skoda Fabia RS rally2 by Toksport

[er88]

Wrc and Erc need guys like Lukyanuk - he is 100% McRae style driver - crazy attractive style, accepts only win or crash on way to win. Spectators loved him, while he would need some crazy energy drink sponsor behind - some brave marketing guys who would knew how to pack this type of driver - he is not material for glancy corporate marketing budget. Aftet ther war world will be different; russian national athlets will have challanges. I think we must forget about him, unfortunately.Nail on head. I know a few mates of mine who are half hearted rally fans at best (they'd barely watch the WRC and just keep an eye on results, and only go to a local rally once a year), and even they had heard through social media of what Lukyanuk was doing and started keeping up to date with him in the ERC.

Colin McRae is still a much more famous name than Loeb or Ogier, and even from his own era he was much more famous and loved worldwide than Makinen and Sainz etc who obviously won more championships.

They're different ways to build legacies. Loeb, Ogier etc have done so by breaking records and gobbling up championship after championship, but particularly our sport also needs mavericks and folk who will pique the interest of maybe casual motorsport fans or even non motorsport fans. Whether that's through flat out, risk it all driving like McRae, and Lukyanuk. Or even huge personalities like Solberg (who was a worthy champion too), or to a lesser extent a mediocre driver like Ken Block who can attract a new audience to the sport.

Despite the amazing championship battles and close finishes we have had since 2017, the most inconic moment that transcended the usual rally following was Meeke in Mexico on the final stage. Now with 2 and half manufacturers and considering his age, should Meeke be in a team? No. But the championship would be more entertaining if he was, as would the ERC with Lukyanuk.

[Jarek Z]

It's a question of personality.

[seb_sh]

No Meeke in WRC2 https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/meeke-wont-do-monte-carlo-with-skoda/

[RS]

No Meeke in WRC2 https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/meeke-wont-do-monte-carlo-with-skoda/

Oh, surprising and disappointing. If Mikkelsen is not with Skoda anymore i suppose Lindholm will be the main man then.

I don't think Skoda are being entirely truthful when they say it is all up to Toksport though.

[RS]

Just one Fabia on Devoluy (Gryazin)

[Walach]

Oh, surprising and disappointing. If Mikkelsen is not with Skoda anymore i suppose Lindholm will be the main man then.

I don't think Skoda are being entirely truthful when they say it is all up to Toksport though.

How is that surprising?
Meeke has been testing with Skoda since summer of 2020 and since then he made two competitive starts in Qatar and both of them via private teams. One development test that for a single day happened to be in snowy conditions, almost two months before Rally Monte Carlo and plenty of forum folks somehow managed to convince themselves that Meeke will be starting there.

[mknight]

Lindholm has never done Monte in his career. He was on mixed Monza 2020 with mediocre result.

Pajari has done it once...in Rally3 and has very few Rally2 starts.

Bulacia has had a nightmare season and he is mediocre on tarmac and previously at Monte.

Surely for a WRC debut Skoda needs someone better. Which is why they say they will have 4 cars and that they will announce later. Likely negotiations ongoing.
Edit: Negotiations with multiple different drivers. Not sure Meeke is among them.

[RS]

How is that surprising?
Meeke has been testing with Skoda since summer of 2020 and since then he made two competitive starts in Qatar and both of them via private teams. One development test that for a single day happened to be in snowy conditions, almost two months before Rally Monte Carlo and plenty of forum folks somehow managed to convince themselves that Meeke will be starting there.

It's quite unusual for a driver to do a test for a specific rally and then not drive on that rally.

If they wanted Meeke to drive I can't see it would be a huge problem. He has probably driven more miles in the last year than most drivers in the WRC and knows that car better than anyone else

Bulacia in the car today: https://youtu.be/c9WaPU5LI2c

[RS]

Lindholm has never done Monte in his career. He was on mixed Monza 2020 with mediocre result.

Pajari has done it once...in Rally3 and has very few Rally2 starts.

Bulacia has had a nightmare season and he is mediocre on tarmac and previously at Monte.

Surely for a WRC debut Skoda needs someone better. Which is why they say they will have 4 cars and that they will announce later. Likely negotiations ongoing.
Edit: Negotiations with multiple different drivers. Not sure Meeke is among them.

4th probably Gryazin?

I think Lindholm is a much more complete driver than he was 2 years ago but i agree with you it would be good to have a more experienced hand at the wheel for the car's WRC debut.

[mknight]

4th probably Gryazin?

I think Lindholm is a much more complete driver than he was 2 years ago but i agree with you it would be good to have a more experienced hand at the wheel for the car's WRC debut.

Gryazin could drive one of them but imo Skoda will 100% not want him to be their best card coming to Monte. For reasons outside rallying.


Lindholm is a better driver now, but lets not forget that this year he was first in the finish of a single gravel rally and even there he wasn't fastest. Sure supporting him for the season is a good idea but to have him as strongest (and only) card for WRC debut of the car at Monte seems less clever.

Comparing with entry list from last year Camilli, Lefevbre, Rossel (all Citroen) and possibly Cais are all likely to be faster than Lindholm. At least two of them will probably show up.

[wyler]

ita media confirming gryazin as 4th toksport

[mousti]

Toksport: Solberg, Gryazin, Bulacia, Lindholm, Pajari and Miele with new spec, Ingram with old spec.

Cais probably again WRC2 with new Fabia runned by Orsak.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Toksport: Solberg, Gryazin, Bulacia, Lindholm, Pajari and Miele with new spec, Ingram with old spec.


Solberg ? Unless he's going with them for the full season I dont see them picking him to win the Monte for Skoda in the new Fabia RS ahead of Mikkelsen or Meeke.

[mousti]

Solberg ? Unless he's going with them for the full season I dont see them picking him to win the Monte for Skoda in the new Fabia RS ahead of Mikkelsen or Meeke.Mikkelsen is done with Skoda and Meeke won't do MC maybe will start somewhere else later in the season.

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[mknight]

Toksport: Solberg, Gryazin, Bulacia, Lindholm, Pajari and Miele with new spec, Ingram with old spec.

Cais probably again WRC2 with new Fabia runned by Orsak.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk


Solberg just did an interview saying it's either Puma or WRC2 in own Polo.

So do you have some sources or just speculation?

[Sulland]

Solberg just did an interview saying it's either Puma or WRC2 in own Polo.

Autosport interview with OliverS
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/solberg-m-sport-rally1-deal-still-an-option-for-2023/10407211/

[manthey]

Toksport: Solberg, Gryazin, Bulacia, Lindholm, Pajari and Miele with new spec, Ingram with old spec.

Cais probably again WRC2 with new Fabia runned by Orsak.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met TapatalkSo also Cais goes with Skoda leaving Fiesta...

[M5]

Could we see Renault Alpine with a R5 car in a couple of years?

[pantealex]

Remember that they can only do 7 rallies in WRC2 ...
I don't believe that 4 TokSport drivers are driving for points in MC
Lindholm and Pajari will do Sweden for sure.

[cali]

So also Cais goes with Skoda leaving Fiesta...Fiesta isn't even the slightest bit competitive atm so if you want to win you go to Skoda or maybe soon to Toyota

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[dupanton]

Could we see Renault Alpine with a R5 car in a couple of years?

No

[mousti]

Remember that they can only do 7 rallies in WRC2 ...
I don't believe that 4 TokSport drivers are driving for points in MC
Lindholm and Pajari will do Sweden for sure.Lindholm will start indeed start his program at Sweden, Pajari not sure when he starts.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[RS]

Lindholm is a better driver now, but lets not forget that this year he was first in the finish of a single gravel rally and even there he wasn't fastest. Sure supporting him for the season is a good idea but to have him as strongest (and only) card for WRC debut of the car at Monte seems less clever.

Any ideas who then?

Loeb would be nice if he can’t get something together with M-Sport :D

[mknight]

Well I don't know what's the story with Mikkelsen but unless he starts Monte in a Rally1 Skoda should do all to get him at least for that one start as he is their best chance for Monte win.

If that's not an option then Camilli might also be an option for one off (he did first start of Polo as well), Cais as next shot. Solberg might want a bigger program.

Doing first WRC start with Gryazin and some (on tarmac) mediocre drivers like Bulacia (in case Lindholm starts first in Sweden) would look pretty weird.

[RS]

There was one year where Mikkelsen made a few starts with Skoda before some drives in a World Rally Car with Citroen(?).. Maybe something similar is possible this year if not a full WRC2 campaign.

[dupanton]

An article in belgian media says Gregoire Munster will do a full season in WRC2. He gets support from Jourdain Serderidis who cuts his own program to finance a part of the program of Munster!

Car still has to be decided. BMA, team of father Munsters is an official satellite team for Hyundai, but Serderidis has links to Ford and owns a Puma Rally1...

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjZPPamXwAYBIjn?format=jpg&name=large

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjZPPamXwAYBIjn?format=jpg&name=large

i really cant bother to follow this s$it.

[RS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjZPPamXwAYBIjn?format=jpg&name=large

Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic whilst not fixing the actual problems.

[RS]

Gryazin tests for Devoluy:

https://youtu.be/8u0Npe-mMeY

https://youtu.be/I_R_qWi3r38

[cali]

Rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic whilst not fixing the actual problems.Well somebody's doing their job... Every year that person can rename all the subcategories haha

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/paddons-wrc2-title-plan-in-doubt/
Seems more likely we’ll see him in the ERC instead.

[PLuto]

https://i.imgur.com/OOzROZl.png

[Gustav Andel]

https://i.imgur.com/OOzROZl.png

First Fabia RS Rally2 in Czech hands / team... Expected program 2023 : WRC2

[Andre Oliveira]

Now we have Tänak in M-Sport, possible see Virves with RedGrey?

[Bartolbia84]

Now we have Tänak in M-Sport, possible see Virves with RedGrey?

Virves + Joona for me...

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjjNTOXXoAEIIbq?format=jpg&name=large

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjjPJ3zXoAAwykv?format=jpg&name=medium

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjjQcY1XoAEDQ_d?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjjQcY8WIAYEV5B?format=jpg&name=medium

[TypeR]

That rear looks like something from a concept car, especially that spoiler..
Looks fast and most likely is fast car!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great see Cais in a Fabia RS in a team other than Toksport. It could've got a bit incestuous if they ran them all (in WRC2).

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc2/cais-reveals-new-skoda-for-wrc2-title-tilt/

[RS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjjNTOXXoAEIIbq?format=jpg&name=large

Great programme, but does he have enough co-drivers?

[Kenneth]

Well obviously without them he wouldn't have that programme

[Humber]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/paddons-wrc2-title-plan-in-doubt/
Seems more likely we’ll see him in the ERC instead.

Paddon might be better to do the Australian and/or ARA (US) rally championships. Australia to reduce the number of Toyota walkover wins. The US has gone to the Rally 2 category and Hyundai need to regain their street cred.

[PLuto]

Great programme, but does he have enough co-drivers?

It is quite clear - one codriver is for WRC2, one codriver is for ERC. Third codriver was supposed to do one WRC2 round and one race in Czech, but as there is date clash with another planned event, most probably he will do as his second race something different.

[mknight]

Cais is a decent bet for Skoda on Monte. After all he was second last year.
With him it is likely they did not search for anyone else.

On paper it seems much less "factory supported" than Toksport entries in last years, but hard to say how it really is.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Chris Ingram:
The deadline to enter Round 1 of the WRC, Rallye Monte Carlo, is next Friday. Despite working relentlessly for the last several months, although I am very close, at the moment I'm not able to confirm my entry.

:(

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/solberg-to-mount-wrc2-title-challenge-with-toksport/

So from rumours of going with Ford to conformation going to Škoda’s Toksport, guess it was pretty much anticipated at this point since we saw them test a few days prior.

[mousti]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/solberg-to-mount-wrc2-title-challenge-with-toksport/

So from rumours of going with Ford to conformation going to Škoda’s Toksport, guess it was pretty much anticipated at this point since we saw them test a few days prior.Like I already said 2 weeks ago :D. Good choice, and we'll see how he will fare against his teammate Emil Lindholm.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting that Solberg is just doing Monte Carlo for 'practice' and not as one of his WRC2 scoring events. As I said 2 weeks ago I would be surprised if Toksport/Skoda chose him to win there in their brand new Fabia.

[WRCStan]

This WRC2 'Challenger' is just reviving WRC2Pro and WRC2...

[PLuto]

This WRC2 'Challenger' is just reviving WRC2Pro and WRC2...

Not completely. To be WRC2Pro, you should pay money (much higher than for "normal" WRC2). These were two separate categories. This new version - to be part of challenger, you dont need to pay more money and you cannot be there if you dont fulfill the regulations. And drivers from Challenger are also part of WRC2, so in fact there can be same winner in WRC2 and WRC2 Challenger.

[WRCStan]

Not completely. To be WRC2Pro, you should pay money (much higher than for "normal" WRC2). These were two separate categories. This new version - to be part of challenger, you dont need to pay more money and you cannot be there if you dont fulfill the regulations. And drivers from Challenger are also part of WRC2, so in fact there can be same winner in WRC2 and WRC2 Challenger.

Yes OK not on paper, it's more like a silent WRC2 and WRC2Am and no manufacturers are committed etc etc... and the 2022 challenger also won WRC2.

Maybe there's a silent priority group where the pros would be -

Lindholm
Rossel
Mikkelsen
Solberg
Huttunen
Fourmaux
Suninen
Paddon

At least the Masters got shuffled off so a Challenger Champ can't also be a Master Champ.

[PLuto]

At least the Masters got shuffled off so a Challenger Champ can't also be a Master Champ.

But you are not correct. You can be together champion in WRC2, WRC2 Challenger and also WRC2 Master.

[AnttiL]

This WRC2 'Challenger' is just reviving WRC2Pro and WRC2...

No. The biggest and most important difference is that WRC2 Challenger is included in WRC2. And like Lindholm did this year, he won the WRC2 Junior but also the whole WRC2. Another example: in 2020 Jari Huttunen won WRC3 with better results than the WRC2 winner. If WRC2 and WRC3 had been in the same category, Huttunen would have won that combined category.

[WRCStan]

But you are not correct. You can be together champion in WRC2, WRC2 Challenger and also WRC2 Master.

Almost - one may be a WRC Master and WRC2 Challenger Champion on separate entries (which still sounds ridiculous), but not a WRC2 Master and WRC2 Challenger (which sounds ridiculous was my point).

[WRCStan]

No. The biggest and most important difference is that WRC2 Challenger is included in WRC2. And like Lindholm did this year, he won the WRC2 Junior but also the whole WRC2. Another example: in 2020 Jari Huttunen won WRC3 with better results than the WRC2 winner. If WRC2 and WRC3 had been in the same category, Huttunen would have won that combined category.

Yeah I get the rules and eligibility, I just don't get why this is being done and who it's for with this criteria. Juniors and Masters makes more sense, they're clearly defined categories. Who was asking to be a Challenger Champion?

Edit: I hope all you 'R5 as top class' because 'think of the competition' can see what I'm asking, because this reality pisses on your belief a little.

[Kenneth]

M-Sport with Fourmaux and Munster in WRC2

[Fast Eddie WRC]

AdrienFourmaux
𝗪𝗥𝗖𝟮, 𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝘄𝗲 𝗴𝗼 !

After a tough 2022, I'm glad to announce i'll be back with M-Sport in 2023 for a challenging WRC 2 program. As you may understood yesterday, my participation at Janner Rallye will be a good preparation for the openning round, Rallye Monte Carlo.

[fiscorpun]

this multiple WRC2 stuff is really hard to understand.... AGAIN
haha cant them just have a WRC2 class? Jeezz

[Andre Oliveira]

And it exists. But need some incentive to younger and older ones.

[WRCStan]

And it exists. But need some incentive to younger and older ones.

There's a cup for old people who want to enter in RC4/5 but nothing but JWRC for the young.

[denkimi]

So solberg with toksport next year.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No word from Chris Ingram's social media... looks like he hasn't been able to fund a Monte-Carlo entry. :(

[pantealex]

No word from Chris Ingram's social media... looks like he hasn't been able to fund a Monte-Carlo entry. :(

Why do you think Monte entry is vital ?

Entering later part of season is way more important.

[dimviii]

Karlip ��
@Karlip1
·
14m
.
@redgreyteam
testing the i20 Rally2 with some upgrades in South Estonia.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkSUrFDXoAEiAqu?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Bartolbia84]

Rossel 7 round in wrc2 Rallye Monte-Carlo, Croatia, Portugal, Sardinia, Estonia, Chile and the all-new Central Europe Rally

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why do you think Monte entry is vital ?
.

He himself seems to and has been working endlessly trying to get the funding. It's his favourite rally.

[AnttiL]

I thought Ingram had a two year (2022-2023) deal for WRC2 without having to worry about crashing

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I thought Ingram had a two year (2022-2023) deal for WRC2 without having to worry about crashing

The deal means the odd bump is ok but the car was wrecked in Greece in 2022 and he had to pay some cash to Toksport. This has compromised his 2023 unless he can raise some more sponsorship money.

“The insurance excess was also a kick in the teeth, despite it being my first crash in about six years. I don’t budget for these things. My funding comes 100 per cent from sponsorship, and the funding is solely for us to go and compete on rallies. But these are the risks you’ve got to take if you want to be competitive at WRC level.”

[dimviii]

Citroen confirms WRC2 programme for three drivers in 2023

https://www.wrcfanatix.com/2022/12/citroen-confirms-wrc2-programme-for-three-drivers-in-2023.html

[Lead]

It would be funny if Mikkelsen at last moment would enter WRC2 Monte Carlo in some private team (maybe in ''old'' Skoda) and win this :) as Monte-Carlo is one of his favorites rallies and he is super fast there

[Danny0405]

https://www.iltalehti.fi/ralli/a/f9d58ce5-b1e0-490e-a881-f5e71dd4636b

Summary:
- Very difficult situation financially speaking for Huttunen, really hard to find money for a WRC2 program
- his career is really at stake
- he is in vicious circle with results not good enough to attract backing and difficult to make good result with low backing
- they (through Gronholm) have tried for testing jobs at Hyundai and Toyota but both have replied they have what they need

[Jarek Z]

FIA rally ladder doesn't work? WRC closed its door, WRC2 champions don't walk into top-level seats, there is no right of passage, achieving success at one level does not guarantee you the opportunity to move up to the next, no Rally1 drive waiting under the Christmas tree, not enough room at the top of the tree, how can it be that even a driver with three victories, 25 podiums and over 100 WRC stage wins cannot find a drive at the top level? - asks Dirtfish in the following article:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-biggest-victim-of-the-wrcs-closed-door/

[wyler]

FIA rally ladder doesn't work? WRC closed its door, WRC2 champions don't walk into top-level seats, there is no right of passage, achieving success at one level does not guarantee you the opportunity to move up to the next, no Rally1 drive waiting under the Christmas tree, not enough room at the top of the tree, how can it be that even a driver with three victories, 25 podiums and over 100 WRC stage wins cannot find a drive at the top level? - asks Dirtfish in the following article:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-biggest-victim-of-the-wrcs-closed-door/

couls be interesting to have a fia/promoter solution, like an under25 team entry by regulation, or an m-sport puma reserved for the wrc2 winner...

[Andre Oliveira]

FIA Rally Star is good program.

[pantealex]

FIA Rally Star is good program.

Yes, right now it seems to be working.

[Danny0405]

couls be interesting to have a fia/promoter solution, like an under25 team entry by regulation, or an m-sport puma reserved for the wrc2 winner...

I like the idea with M-Sport but I would say the best youngster (criteria to be defined) if no offer from manufacturer because, else, we could have some old guys trying to benefit from this (a bit like Bergkvist did at a lower scale in JWRC when a new Fiesta was offered).
However, I see a big con: he would a bit lower the responsibility of teams about launching new guys; and also, we know it, you generally need one year to master a car and then you can have some results. Maybe a 2-year deal with half-time the first year and full-time the second would be better.

[pettersolberg29]

https://www.iltalehti.fi/ralli/a/f9d58ce5-b1e0-490e-a881-f5e71dd4636b

Summary:
- Very difficult situation financially speaking for Huttunen, really hard to find money for a WRC2 program
- his career is really at stake
- he is in vicious circle with results not good enough to attract backing and difficult to make good result with low backing
- they (through Gronholm) have tried for testing jobs at Hyundai and Toyota but both have replied they have what they need

It's super tricky now in this climate - there just isn't enough sponsorship money to go round! I think most of us would agree Oliver Solberg is possibly the most marketable driver in the WRC - certainly in WRC2 - yet even he is seriously struggling to get backing. For smaller names who have even less marketability like Huttunen (especially in a country where there are many other drivers who are taking the sponsorship money) it is almost impossible. Think we're at a precipice now where a lot of talent will never be able to reach their potential sadly...

[wyler]

I like the idea with M-Sport but I would say the best youngster (criteria to be defined) if no offer from manufacturer because, else, we could have some old guys trying to benefit from this (a bit like Bergkvist did at a lower scale in JWRC when a new Fiesta was offered).
However, I see a big con: he would a bit lower the responsibility of teams about launching new guys; and also, we know it, you generally need one year to master a car and then you can have some results. Maybe a 2-year deal with half-time the first year and full-time the second would be better.

i agree on one side, on the other would be just as good to have a good -even if older- driver if he beat the youngster in wrc2 , think about mikkelsen...
this will raise competition in wrc2 at worst, and anyway, this would work for 1 year, and there's not so much old guy anymore who could try...

[Red bull]

Kenya WRC2 driver vists the Toyota team https://www.redbull.com/ke-en/karan-patel-in-finland

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rossel happy to continue with Citroen C3 against the new Fabia opposition...

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc2/rossel-keen-to-progress-with-c3/

[Bartolbia84]

Herczig (Skoda Fabia rally2) start in five events: CRO, POR, ITA, GRC, CENTRAL EUROPE

[YerayEcoBoost]

William Creighton and Josh McErlean will drive the PCRS Rallysport Hyundai I20 Rally2 on Rallye Monte-Carlo.


Enviado desde mi S88Plus mediante Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wow... Gus Greensmith has joined Toksport for 2023 !!

First WRC2 event will be Rally Mexico.

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/wrc2/whats-next-for-greensmith-young-brit-confirms-2023-plans/

[bomber21]

Toksport 2023 WRC2 dream team!!!

[Jarek Z]

Toksport 2023 WRC2 dream team!!!

Is Greensmith a driver from your dreams? ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Is Greensmith a driver from your dreams? ;)

It certainly won't be a dream for Chris Ingram having Greensmith taking a car, maybe his car, at Toksport.

Ingram has no time for him as a pay driver getting drives, when he has had to struggle so hard to get where he has in rallying.

[AnttiL]

Toksport has so many drivers this year...

[manthey]

It certainly won't be a dream for Chris Ingram having Greensmith taking a car, maybe his car, at Toksport.

Ingram has no time for him as a pay driver getting drives, when he has had to struggle so hard to get where he has in rallying.And Greensmith said on wrc's article

"I'll be spending a lot of time in the seat this year, that's for sure."

[Rallyest]

And Greensmith said on wrc's article

"I'll be spending a lot of time in the seat this year, that's for sure."


Well, that can mean on events he is not doing WRC2 and the Yaris is free he will be giving it a go in Rally1?

[mousti]

It certainly won't be a dream for Chris Ingram having Greensmith taking a car, maybe his car, at Toksport.

Ingram has no time for him as a pay driver getting drives, when he has had to struggle so hard to get where he has in rallying.Ingram has not the money for a new Fabia for the moment. His plans is to do WRC2 with the Fabia Evo, starting with Monte Carlo.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[Franky]

Toksport has so many drivers this year...

The Toksport Cup

[Sulland]

Ingram has not the money for a new Fabia for the moment. His plans is to do WRC2 with the Fabia Evo, starting with Monte Carlo.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

Could turn out to be a blessing in descise. Teething issues could happen to a new model, even for Skoda.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ingram has not the money for a new Fabia for the moment. His plans is to do WRC2 with the Fabia Evo, starting with Monte Carlo.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

Confirmation of Monte !

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Flyyl-SWIAEYcHl?format=jpg&name=medium

[Jarek Z]

Marquito Bulacia confirms his plans - a seven-round programme with Škoda Fabia RS Rally2 in WRC2. He is going to start with Rallye Monte-Carlo and Rally Sweden. The remaining 5 rallies are yet to be confirmed:
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc2/marquito-bulacia-unveils-2023-plans/

How many drivers is Toksport going to have? 3 (Lindholm, Greensmith and Bulacia) or are there more?

[Essaj]

How many drivers is Toksport going to have? 3 (Lindholm, Greensmith and Bulacia) or are there more?

Solberg, Gryazin?, Pajari?, Ingram?, Mikkelsen?

[rallyfiend]

Solberg, Gryazin?, Pajari?, Ingram?, Mikkelsen?

all of them it seems. Except Mikkelsen. could be 6-7 cars per rally. Certainly in Europe.

TokSport seems to be taking all the business that used to be M-Sport's....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Quite amazing how Toksport has grown in just a few years. When Chris Ingram joined them in 2019 for his ERC challenge they were hardly known at all for rallying !

[atsiotras79]

Ingram joined them in 2018…

[TypeR]

Won't be easy for them.. as all the drivers are very demanding and fighting for the wins every round..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

First view of Ingram's livery for Monte Carlo...

https://www.wrc.com/images/redaktion/Season-2023-NEWS/WRC2/January/070122_Ingram1_d1db6_f_750x420.jpeg

[AnttiL]

Quite amazing how Toksport has grown in just a few years. When Chris Ingram joined them in 2019 for his ERC challenge they were hardly known at all for rallying !

After Skoda Motorsport quit their works team, some of the factory support has supposedly gone towards Toksport.

But it's also good to remember that in 2018 Skoda employed five drivers: Rovanperä, Kopecky, Tidemand, Veiby and Nordgren. And right now, sadly, Skoda is the car to drive in WRC2, everyone knows that you don't have much chances with other cars...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

2023 Season Toksport livery:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fl4AI01XEAI95z9?format=jpg&name=large

Planetemarcus @planetemarcus
#WRC TOKSPORT revealed this afternoon the Skoda Fabia Rally2 TWO Team line-up 2023 with Lindholm/Pajari & Gryazin/Bulacia ► https://bit.ly/3WYM4Yn

Notice that Solberg, Greensmith, Delecour will drive also Skoda Fabia Rally2 TOKSPORT this season. No news from Mikkelsen.

[RS]

Looks like Ingram retained CarFinance24/7 but they have downgraded their spending. Shame, i liked the orange car!

Toksport; i preferred the lime green livery they ran Mikkelsen and Gryazin with in Lausitz/Devuloy.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Looks like Ingram retained CarFinance24/7 but they have downgraded their spending. Shame, i liked the orange car!



The sponsorship reduction means Chris has had to start crowd-funding...

https://www.gofundme.com/f/chris-ingram-wrc?qid=800725844f07a2a4fcf74852276f542d

I have worked tirelessly to raise further funding to let me compete throughout 2023. However, due to the current economic climate in the UK, it has been extremely difficult to find new brand partners and one of my main partners has had to drop out, despite the progress made in 2022 and World Rally Championship glory being within touching distance.

I now feel I have exhausted every option so have decided to launch this new campaign ahead of Rallye Monte Carlo. I am calling on you to join the Rally Warrior army and support my team on this mission. Every penny of your support will be used towards WRC competition. This campaign will run throughout the WRC 2023 season.

If you can help, I’d be so grateful and honoured to bring you along for the ride!

Thank you

Chris Ingram

[mknight]

With Toksport it might be that they won't have tons of cars, just that they will go with 4-5 to more rallies. With the 7 rally champ limits there were quite a few rallies last year where they had few or no cars.

Also while Fabia seems to be the best allround car you still need a driver, when you have one even a "worse" car can win. See Janer now with Fourmaux or say Croatia last year.

But for Skoda motorsport the main goal is to sell cars, which they succeed with.
Sadly in 2016-2017 it seemed the success would lead to top tier entry, but that got called off. Now I am not quite sure whether the overall effect is positive for WRC, since it takes money from MSport or Hyundai. But C3 Rally2 success would do the same.

[RS]

But for Skoda motorsport the main goal is to sell cars, which they succeed with.
Sadly in 2016-2017 it seemed the success would lead to top tier entry, but that got called off. Now I am not quite sure whether the overall effect is positive for WRC, since it takes money from MSport or Hyundai. But C3 Rally2 success would do the same.

I won’t shed any tears for them, it should just drive them to make their own products better.

It seems now that Skoda give partial support to many drivers instead of full support to one (Mikkelsen) and I think that has to be a good thing for WRC. It’s just a shame there are limited options for those drivers to progress further at the moment.

BTW, it’s quite surprising Solberg is not in one of the two main Toksport teams, but I suppose the deals were already done with the others when he signed up.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I won’t shed any tears for them, it should just drive them to make their own products better.



The difference with Skoda is that they only make a Rally2 car and can give it 100% priority. Whereas others have a whole range of different rally cars to build and perfect (like M-Sport).

[RS]

The sponsorship reduction means Chris has had to start crowd-funding...

https://www.gofundme.com/f/chris-ingram-wrc?qid=800725844f07a2a4fcf74852276f542d

I have worked tirelessly to raise further funding to let me compete throughout 2023. However, due to the current economic climate in the UK, it has been extremely difficult to find new brand partners and one of my main partners has had to drop out, despite the progress made in 2022 and World Rally Championship glory being within touching distance.

I now feel I have exhausted every option so have decided to launch this new campaign ahead of Rallye Monte Carlo. I am calling on you to join the Rally Warrior army and support my team on this mission. Every penny of your support will be used towards WRC competition. This campaign will run throughout the WRC 2023 season.

If you can help, I’d be so grateful and honoured to bring you along for the ride!

Thank you

Chris Ingram

Sadly it’s probably a problem for Ingram that sponsors, particularly ones who only operate in the UK, don’t get very good exposure from WRC2. Hopefully with maybe sparser WRC1 entries this year the promoter might up their game.

[Sulland]

BTW, it’s quite surprising Solberg is not in one of the two main Toksport teams, but I suppose the deals were already done with the others when he signed up.

Maybe Oliver could take Ingram onboard Toksport 3, and introduce him to the Monster gang, so he gets a full season for once!?

[Jarek Z]

Toksport enters two teams in WRC2 2023:

Team #1:
Emil Lindholm
Sami Pajari

Team #2:
N. Gryazin
Marquito Bulacia

source:
https://twitter.com/toksportwrt/status/1611724465452318722?cxt=HHwWhIC88ZW3_90sAAAA

[Managarium]

So, in which Tok Sport team is Greensmith then?

[becher]

So, in which Tok Sport team is Greensmith then?
Separate "team" with his family company as a title sponsor?

[rallyfiend]

So, in which Tok Sport team is Greensmith then?

Probably not running as a team.

Just going for Drivers / Co-driver's championships

[AnttiL]

Solberg also then outside the teams.

[Andre Oliveira]

Solberg should be Monster.

[Sulland]

The sponsorship reduction means Chris has had to start crowd-funding...

https://www.gofundme.com/f/chris-ingram-wrc?qid=800725844f07a2a4fcf74852276f542d

I have worked tirelessly to raise further funding to let me compete throughout 2023. However, due to the current economic climate in the UK, it has been extremely difficult to find new brand partners and one of my main partners has had to drop out, despite the progress made in 2022 and World Rally Championship glory being within touching distance.

I now feel I have exhausted every option so have decided to launch this new campaign ahead of Rallye Monte Carlo. I am calling on you to join the Rally Warrior army and support my team on this mission. Every penny of your support will be used towards WRC competition. This campaign will run throughout the WRC 2023 season.

If you can help, I’d be so grateful and honoured to bring you along for the ride!

Thank you

Chris Ingram

We see a trend that drivers who can not get a seat or does not have a healthy bugdet goes down a class.

Maybe that would be a good option also for Ingram?
Do a full season in WRC3, and potentially win a title, will give him a better budget in 24.

[Jarek Z]

We see a trend that drivers who can not get a seat or does not have a healthy bugdet goes down a class.

Maybe that would be a good option also for Ingram?
Do a full season in WRC3, and potentially win a title, will give him a better budget in 24.

This guy is European Rally Champion, ERC 2 Wheel Drive Champion, ERC Junior Under 27 Champion, ERC3 Champion and has several other titles from the British championship. I think that in his case a season in WRC3 would only be a waste of time.

[wyler]

This guy is European Rally Champion, ERC 2 Wheel Drive Champion, ERC Junior Under 27 Champion, ERC3 Champion and has several other titles from the British championship. I think that in his case a season in WRC3 would only be a waste of time.

still he doesnt have a title starting with W...

[rallyfiend]

Solberg should be Monster.

He'll only be Monster if they pay the team registration fee. Otherwise he'll just be 'Oliver Solberg'.

[WRCStan]

Do a full season in WRC3, and potentially win a title, will give him a better budget in 24.

How?

[Sulland]

He'll only be Monster if they pay the team registration fee. Otherwise he'll just be 'Oliver Solberg'.

We will see in Sweden.

[Kenneth]

Jos Verstappen switched to Škoda Fabia RS Rally2. Didn't announced his program, but I think he will show in some WRC2 events again.

[Andre Oliveira]

RedGrey

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmN4wwQWIBQvV9h?format=jpg&name=large

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmN9UQEWIA0UUId?format=jpg&name=large

[dimviii]

RedGrey

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmN4wwQWIBQvV9h?format=jpg&name=large

first fiesta for RedGrey?

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmOEObkX0AsvvCR?format=jpg&name=large

[wyler]

first fiesta for RedGrey?

if it's new, it doesn't have the updated mirror...odd

[TypeR]

RedGrey has one Fiesta rally2 itself also.. so most likely that's the same not new..

[cali]

According to my sources RedGrey have sold or on the process of selling all of their Hyundais.

Edited original post to be more precise

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[RS]

Who is going to run Suninen in WRC2 this year then?

[flat_right]

According to my sources RedGrey have sold all of their Hyundais.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

If true then it should be quite recent as in Betsafe podcast half month ago Tänak told that they have kept Hyundai R5 cars and he hoped to have more involvement in their development.

[Sulland]

How?

Because imo it is better to have an ok budget, complete a full season, and maybe win a championship at WRC level, than to start a season where you in the beginning start off with a bang and a hope of success with crowdfunding.

He has the potential to win in WRC3, and not in this years WRC2, the competition is too high in 23.

[rallyfiend]

Because imo it is better to have an ok budget, complete a full season, and maybe win a championship at WRC level, than to start a season where you in the beginning start off with a bang and a hope of success with crowdfunding.

He has the potential to win in WRC3, and not in this years WRC2, the competition is too high in 23.

Yes, I fear that Ingram will be resigned to having to try to put a positive spin on things by constantly referring to 'being one of the quickest in the old car' in his statements.

Kind of like how he was able throughout last year to say he was only really competing for WRC2 Junior, while often getting beaten at that too.....

[cali]

If true then it should be quite recent as in Betsafe podcast half month ago Tänak told that they have kept Hyundai R5 cars and he hoped to have more involvement in their development.First - don't take everything 100% seriously what Tänak says in interviews. Continuing with Hyundai was never the plan

But yes, quite recent sales, one of the cars went to Finland to Riku Tahko

https://twitter.com/RallitFi/status/1611354446084046857?t=1xJHyqC2TIv3esy29RDJkA&s=19

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

First - don't take everything 100% seriously what Tänak says in interviews. Continuing with Hyundai was never the plan

But yes, quite recent sales, one of the cars went to Finland to Riku Tahko

https://twitter.com/RallitFi/status/1611354446084046857?t=1xJHyqC2TIv3esy29RDJkA&s=19

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

ewrc-results still lists them with two Hyundai Rally2's. But yeah, if it's very recent, not added yet.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/owner/1446-redgrey-team/

[WRCStan]

Because imo it is better to have an ok budget, complete a full season, and maybe win a championship at WRC level, than to start a season where you in the beginning start off with a bang and a hope of success with crowdfunding.

He has the potential to win in WRC3, and not in this years WRC2, the competition is too high in 23.

I meant how would winning WRC3 give him a better budget in 2024. IMO he'd be back here in this same pickle again next year. Not like they carry a pot of cash to carry over to next year.

I'm sad to say I wish WRC3 was a lot stronger, right now it is meaningless. There's no WRC level about it.

[Sulland]

I meant how would winning WRC3 give him a better budget in 2024. IMO he'd be back here in this same pickle again next year. Not like they carry a pot of cash to carry over to next year.

I'm sad to say I wish WRC3 was a lot stronger, right now it is meaningless. There's no WRC level about it.

Normally being a world champion makes it easier to get new sponsors. Even if it is the third layer carclass, the words world champion opens doors.

[Kenneth]

Well being European champions haven't helped him in this matter

[WRCStan]

Normally being a world champion makes it easier to get new sponsors. Even if it is the third layer carclass, the words world champion opens doors.

It's not a world championship so they wouldn't be world champions.

And they'd still have to explain to these potential sponsors how they became WRC3 champions, and it's because they beat 3 other crews over 4 rallies. Not good enough.

[TypeR]

It's not a world championship so they wouldn't be world champions.

And they'd still have to explain to these potential sponsors how they became WRC3 champions, and it's because they beat 3 other crews over 4 rallies. Not good enough.
It's JWRC, it's winner will be junior's WORLD champion.

[Sulland]

It's not a world championship so they wouldn't be world champions.

And they'd still have to explain to these potential sponsors how they became WRC3 champions, and it's because they beat 3 other crews over 4 rallies. Not good enough.

Ok, so what is it then?

[wyler]

And they'd still have to explain to these potential sponsors how they became WRC3 champions, and it's because they beat 3 other crews over 4 rallies. Not good enough.

actually there's 9 jwrc entry and rumored entry for wrc3 is around 15 cars...

[WRCStan]

It's JWRC, it's winner will be junior's WORLD champion.

Junior WRC's champion. Not been a Junior World Rally Champion since 2010.


Ok, so what is it then?

It's WRC3! And it's joined by WRC2 and Junior WRC. As the book says, WRC2 and WRC3 are support championships of the World Rally Championship. Junior WRC is another FIA championship altogether which is subject to some of the rules of the World Rally Championship, and it even has a different promotor than the World Rally Championship.

There is currently a discussion on wikipedia about the naming of the articles there and the point is made that they cannot be world championships and so are just named with 'WRC' branding, where WRC doesn't necessarily stand for anything because it's never defined.

One supporting visual piece: https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F edf53472-e3d4-4433-9fc9-1dfc35a4882b_445x603.png

Formula 2 isn't a world championship either and AFAIK there are no non-top-tier world championships.

[WRCStan]

actually there's 9 jwrc entry and rumored entry for wrc3 is around 15 cars...

What's the 9x JWRC got to do with WRC3?

[wyler]

What's the 9x JWRC got to do with WRC3?

same class, so actually they can run for both...and most of them usually do...

[TypeR]

What are you on mate..?

What does WRC stand for?
Let me help you - World Rally Championship

There are FIM Moto2 WORLD champions.
There are MX2 motocross WORLD champions.
And
There are WRC2 - WORLD championship 2 winners
There are JWRC - Junior WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP winners

Cut the crap.

[dimviii]

Citroën Racing
@CitroenRacing
·
3h
�� First official #C3Rally2 development and test session of the season!

https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing/status/1613927979490369537

[Kenneth]

From FIA website:

---

Titles up for grabs

FIA World Rally Championship for Drivers

FIA World Rally Championship for Co-Drivers

FIA World Rally Championship for Manufacturers

FIA World Rally Championship for Teams

FIA WRC2 Championship for Drivers

FIA WRC2 Championship for Co-Drivers

FIA WRC2 Challenger Championship for Drivers


[...]

FIA Junior WRC Championship for Drivers

FIA Junior WRC Championship for Co-Drivers

----

So in your opinion, it's FIA Junior World Rally Championship Championship?

You cannot compare it with Moto2 or MX2 as it's totally different government body. But you can compare it with other support championship by FIA.

So you have:

FIA Hypercar World Endurance Drivers’ Championship x FIA Endurance Trophy for LMP2 Drivers

FIA Formula One World Championship x FIA Formula 2 Championship

FIA World Rallycross Championship x FIA RX2e Championship

See? Only Kalle Rovanperä is WORLD Rally Champion, meanwhile Emil Lindholm is WRC2 Champion... Also FIA is well known for that they don't really gives world championship status easily. For like 7 years Formula E was not WORLD championship, same for rally raid.

[Sulland]

2360

[WRCStan]

What are you on mate..?

What does WRC stand for?
Let me help you - World Rally Championship

There are FIM Moto2 WORLD champions.
There are MX2 motocross WORLD champions.
And
There are WRC2 - WORLD championship 2 winners
There are JWRC - Junior WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP winners

Cut the crap.

All I did was present an idea in context of an on-topic discussion point. Just because you use uppercase doesn't make your points any more valid or valuable then mine. No need to be so curt, cut the cut the crap crap.

Kenneth, probably opening a can of worms with this so best moving it to a new thread if it's to be discussed further.

[Kenneth]

I don't think anyone is saying that there cannot or shouldn't be Junior world champion. But there isn't Junior world champion, only Junior WRC Champion.

Sure, there could be debate if there is even need for junior world champion in rally or any other motorsport (except karting or kart-cross ofc). In traditional sports, junior championships are here because of physical abilities of people younger than about 20. In rally it's more about experiences.

But in term on this discusion: it doesn't really matter if someone is Junior World Rally Champion or Junior WRC Champion. It only matters on paper.

[manthey]

Citroën Racing
@CitroenRacing
·
3h
First official #C3Rally2 development and test session of the season!

https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing/status/1613927979490369537Good for the competition!
Is the Polo still updated?

[TWRC]

Good for the competition!
Is the Polo still updated?
There was an interview about 2 weeks ago with hungarian Polo driver Frigyes Turán, he said there's supposed to be some updates for the car this spring.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

THE WRC2 DRIVER REFUSING TO GIVE UP....

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-wrc2-driver-refusing-to-give-up/?fbclid=PAAaamBli_ata34_G63DU072Ug-ss6zZnUIPOQIoregxA0zSpmXd5Xr3oPa7c

Please help if you can:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/chris-ingram-wrc?qid=800725844f07a2a4fcf74852276f542d

[EstWRC]

2C competition takes over the Hyundai rally2 program https://motorsport.hyundai.com/title-target-in-wrc2/

[Myrvold]

2C competition takes over the Hyundai rally2 program https://motorsport.hyundai.com/title-target-in-wrc2/

And here I've been telling my mates that the "official Hyundai Rally2 team" will come to the first round of the Norwegian Rally Championship. Oh well, there will be a RedGrey Hyundai and a RedGrey Ford there at least!

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmrV3zuaAAAfJH5?format=jpg&name=large

[Jarek Z]

Is it Munster on the right? Does he compete both in WRC2 and WRC3?

[AnttiL]

Is it Munster on the right? Does he compete both in WRC2 and WRC3?

mostly WRC2. Sweden only in JWRC. Maybe Rally1 at the end of the year

[Jarek Z]

OK, so WRC2, WRC3 and then WRC1. Some people are lucky ;)

[Sulland]

Solberg took 10 stagewins in Monte, and got to know the new car.
Lets see what he can do in Sweden where points are counted for him.

[rp]

Solberg took 10 stagewins in Monte, and got to know the new car.
Lets see what he can do in Sweden where points are counted for him.

Interesting to see how Oliver is able to keep the pace of Lindholm, Suninen, Pajari & Huttunen.

[Danny0405]

In terms of car, the level of this new Skoda RS is frightening: Gryazin looked in control all over the rally with after the puncture, the Toksport bunch did regularly 1-2 in the class (or sometimes 3 in top 4), they won all the stages, ... And on a pure tarmac rally with no snow/ice where the other cars are quite efficient normally.
I think it could close definitively the game where the Skoda Rally2 evo, the Citroen and the Polo were quite close last year.

The Hyundai confirms to be interesting on tarmac (and Suninen did some good time on gravel last year) but I’m not sure they can catch the Skoda; last hope would be Toyota but not before 1 year.

And the level of the Fiesta is really worrying on the other side: 5 and 9 with Fourmaux and Munster who are quite good in Monte...
And I seriously think Fourmaux did a good rally (3rd on Saturday).
Let’s see Virves in Sweden and the rest of the season but it could the very last year of this car at the international level (except the JWRC winner as long as M-Sport has the contract).

[skarderud]

Virves ended 7th in 1th rally in the Norwegian championship with the Ford this weekend, tidemand 5th also in ford, behind Larsen, Veiby, Brynhildsen and Linnamäe, so maybe not to much hope.

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[Danny0405]

Virves ended 7th in 1th rally in the Norwegian championship with the Ford this weekend, tidemand 5th also in ford, behind Larsen, Veiby, Brynhildsen and Linnamäe, so maybe not to much hope.

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Tidemand apparently, it was the old R5 (according to ewrc).
But yeah, I took some notes, in 2022, the only championship a bit consistent where the Fiesta Rally2 was playing a role (multiple podiums or wins) is the Swedish championship ... which is in decline; well, at least it is consistent with the car.

Think it’s pretty much the end for this car at international level, a bit like the Peugeot 208 T16 in its time... well, only difference is that apparently they succeeded in selling (delivering to client to be more precise) a dozen in UK and Ireland in the last 12 months (probably some effects of logistics issues of competitors + Brexit? Maybe also, as they have a «*works*» RC2 team, they sold more car that have been already used so cheaper?). Could last 1 year or 2 still like this but probably not much more than that and it cannot help to come back at the international level.

Well, in the end, in terms of sales, they have reached 100 which is not that far from the Polo (and better than old Hyundai R5 with which Huttunen won WRC-3 or not very far away from the Citroen Rally2). Don’t know how they did but the commercial worked better than the sport side with this Fiesta (100 after 3 years and half is not huge but it could have been much less considering how much it has been outdated from the beginning).

[Jarek Z]

Guys, do you live a fun life? ;)

https://www.ewrc-results.com/media/77787-rallye-automobile-monte-carlo-2023/3878/

[Jarek Z]

Oliver Solberg:

https://twitter.com/OliverSolberg01/status/1615648960571666434

[Jarek Z]

Sean Johnston in Rallye Monte Carlo 2023 - Big Crash on Col de Turini:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-gPtt0hH7o

https://www.ewrc-results.com/media/77787-rallye-automobile-monte-carlo-2023/3880/

[Andre Oliveira]

Tidemand apparently, it was the old R5 (according to ewrc).
But yeah, I took some notes, in 2022, the only championship a bit consistent where the Fiesta Rally2 was playing a role (multiple podiums or wins) is the Swedish championship ... which is in decline; well, at least it is consistent with the car.

Think it’s pretty much the end for this car at international level, a bit like the Peugeot 208 T16 in its time... well, only difference is that apparently they succeeded in selling (delivering to client to be more precise) a dozen in UK and Ireland in the last 12 months (probably some effects of logistics issues of competitors + Brexit? Maybe also, as they have a «*works*» RC2 team, they sold more car that have been already used so cheaper?). Could last 1 year or 2 still like this but probably not much more than that and it cannot help to come back at the international level.

Well, in the end, in terms of sales, they have reached 100 which is not that far from the Polo (and better than old Hyundai R5 with which Huttunen won WRC-3 or not very far away from the Citroen Rally2). Don’t know how they did but the commercial worked better than the sport side with this Fiesta (100 after 3 years and half is not huge but it could have been much less considering how much it has been outdated from the beginning).

https://scontent.fopo5-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/323426107_495831766068188_7722017301661799728_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=rcKP7yVR-asAX_zDlBP&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-2.fna&oh=00_AfAO5gaRgU1xi0KqXFIuKP2ujyTEbm4vTYsy3YmybLOw 4g&oe=63D26C5A

[mknight]

@Fabia

Yes it is faster on dry tarmac. But dry tarmac and fast gravel was where it specifically was expected to be better than old. So question remains if it now is slower on bumpy/narrow tarmac or slow gravel. Guess we will see first in Croatia.

@Fiesta on 1st round of Norwegian Rally Championship. Due to low temperatures for all but the last 4 stages there was insane ammount of hanging snow "dust". After first car it was basically like dense fog for everyone. I was there for 3 stages (in -22).
So I wouldn't read much into results.

Btw. Linnamae looked really uncomfortable first few stages and then visibly improved by the end.

[Myrvold]

@Fabia
@Fiesta on 1st round of Norwegian Rally Championship. Due to low temperatures for all but the last 4 stages there was insane ammount of hanging snow "dust". After first car it was basically like dense fog for everyone. I was there for 3 stages (in -22).
So I wouldn't read much into results.


It wasn't that bad on Saturday. On Friday it was worse, not helped that one of the stages were run at the military area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmkmnQlHpNI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGu5uYeEcEU

With that being said. Tidemand in an older Fiesta and Virves in one of his first R5/Rally2 events are not the best ones to use for comparisons.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/skodaautonews/status/1617794907174993920

So this is what Mikkelsen was doing with the Skoda in Sweden

At the 4x4 Winter Experience event in #Sweden, #Skoda organised co-drives with
@AMikkelsenRally
and
@Emil_Lindholm
in the new #FabiaRSRally2 in collaboration with
@MotorsportSkoda
. It was an out-of-this-world experience! ��
#SkodaExploresSweden ����❄️

[Bartolbia84]

Zaldivar sr (Hyundai I20 rally2): SWE, POR, ITA, EST, GRC, CHL

Villanueva (Skoda Fabia rally2 evo): SWE, POR, ITA, EST, FIN, GRC

[240RS]

Flattering words from Francois Delecour on the current state of R2 points to a winning formula.

The strength of the cars received a big nod from him, but it's his praise of the drivers which got me thinking how much has changed in the twenty-odd years since he left the prime stage. Today's driving is very much an exact science. Stray off the line and lose time. Or cook your tyres! There is less space to express yourself in the old-fashioned sense. Colin McRae exuberance just won't do today.

As for the cars, the chassis advancements and use of space-frames has transformed the two main categories a good deal. Don't think the tyres, and engine in R2, have been major fields of advancement though.

[AnttiL]

I still get confused when you say "R2" when referring to Rally2 because R2 still makes me think of a front-wheel drive car that we know now as Rally4. At least type Ra2 if Rally2 is too long, please :)

It's even worse with Rally1, R1 is close to a stock car, Rally1 has almost nothing from a stock car...

[240RS]

I still get confused when you say "R2" when referring to Rally2 because R2 still makes me think of a front-wheel drive car that we know now as Rally4. At least type Ra2 if Rally2 is too long, please :)


It took me a while to get used to it, too :)

[Corcaíoch]

Richard Millener in denial it seems, at least publicly anyway.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-not-worried-by-new-skoda-rally2s-pace/

Also to put it down to the drivers performance is both insulting to Fourmaux and generally unbelievable. Even those who aren't fans of Fourmaux would find it hard to believe Gryazin is 2-3mins faster than Fourmaux on pace alone.

[seb_sh]

Richard Millener in denial it seems, at least publicly anyway.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-not-worried-by-new-skoda-rally2s-pace/

Also to put it down to the drivers performance is both insulting to Fourmaux and generally unbelievable. Even those who aren't fans of Fourmaux would find it hard to believe Gryazin is 2-3mins faster than Fourmaux on pace alone.

Looks like corporate-speak, defending the company and the product at all costs. Everyone in the rally world knows the truth so he just ends up looking silly.

[mknight]

Well he is right that it was not Skoda 1-2-3 since there was a Citroen and a Hyundai on the podium.
So Skoda was seemingly not massively faster than everyone.

But everyone including Skoda were massively faster than Fiestas.

[AnttiL]

Well he is right that it was not Skoda 1-2-3 since there was a Citroen and a Hyundai on the podium.
So Skoda was seemingly not massively faster than everyone.

But everyone including Skoda were massively faster than Fiestas.

Behind the final results Gryazin and Solberg were impressive on stage times though.

But let’s wait until Croatia and Portugal.

[wyler]

Well he is right that it was not Skoda 1-2-3 since there was a Citroen and a Hyundai on the podium.
So Skoda was seemingly not massively faster than everyone.

But everyone including Skoda were massively faster than Fiestas.

that's the point. he said accurate things...
...about the others! : )

[skarderud]

Mikkelsen in a skoda, aiming for the european rounds and win them.
https://www.parcferme.no/jeg-plukker-ut-de-lopene-som-har-hoyest-konkurranse/175812

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[cali]

Mikkelsen in a skoda, aiming for the european rounds and win them.
https://www.parcferme.no/jeg-plukker-ut-de-lopene-som-har-hoyest-konkurranse/175812

Sent fra min SM-S901B via TapatalkGood, the young guns will have moment of truth when Mikkelsen starts. Either they are going to keep up with him or can't follow it will show more of true speed of these young guns.

Rally2 will be very-very good this year.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[sinepikohv]

I was surprised to find this: https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/80664-qatar-international-rally-2023/

The surprising bit isn't a rally in Qatar but that Lindholm, Östberg and Mikkelsen will be competing.

[mknight]

Quatar paid for them to start. Basically looked around and checked whom they could get at decent cost.

[RS]

Mikkelsen in a skoda, aiming for the european rounds and win them.
https://www.parcferme.no/jeg-plukker-ut-de-lopene-som-har-hoyest-konkurranse/175812

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Does it say with which team?

[skarderud]

Does it say with which team?No, but they presume toksport in the article.



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[AMSS]

Does it say with which team?

According to the start list they are all with SRT

https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/80664-qatar-international-rally-2023/

[AnttiL]

The team question was about Mikkelsen's WRC2 season, not the Qatar rally

[skarderud]

Good, the young guns will have moment of truth when Mikkelsen starts. Either they are going to keep up with him or can't follow it will show more of true speed of these young guns.

Rally2 will be very-very good this year.

Sent from my DN2103 using TapatalkYes, absolutely!

They have to beat the fastest wrc2 driver around to show their talent.

Good for the championship!

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[AMSS]

The team question was about Mikkelsen's WRC2 season, not the Qatar rally

Ups, sorry...

[RS]

No, but they presume toksport in the article.



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Are they not at maximum capacity yet?! Lindholm, Pajari, Gryazin, Solberg, Bulacia (x2), Ingram, Greensmith, Delecour(?)..

[skarderud]

Are they not at maximum capacity yet?! Lindholm, Pajari, Gryazin, Solberg, Bulacia (x2), Ingram, Greensmith, Delecour(?)..Not all drives all races probably, but yeah, crowded servicefacilities.
Mikkelsen probably can get a deal with skoda/toksport based on history anyway.

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[Rallyper]

Yes, absolutely!

They have to beat the fastest wrc2 driver around to show their talent.

Good for the championship!

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Are you sure Mikkelsen still is fastest?

[mousti]

Toksport is already running a Fabia RS Rally2 from Eurosol Racing Team in MC and Sweden. So don't know they've capacity enough. And it will be interesting to see if he brings sponsors with him or he renegotiated with Skoda Motorsport.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

[skarderud]

Toksport is already running a Fabia RS Rally2 from Eurosol Racing Team in MC and Sweden. So don't know they've capacity enough. And it will be interesting to see if he brings sponsors with him or he renegotiated with Skoda Motorsport.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met TapatalkSeems like a private funded deal from sponsors, he put a pirelli tyre on his Facebook today, they are probably a part of the deal.

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[skarderud]

Are you sure Mikkelsen still is fastest?Was last year, some good contenders this year, but he is the benchmark.

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[becher]

Toksport is already running a Fabia RS Rally2 from Eurosol Racing Team in MC and Sweden. So don't know they've capacity enough. And it will be interesting to see if he brings sponsors with him or he renegotiated with Skoda Motorsport.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn 2201123G met Tapatalk

Ah I was wondering about the Eurosol car.

[Rallyper]

Was last year, some good contenders this year, but he is the benchmark.

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Let´s see.
Now it´s Mikkelsen having pressure. Could be kind of new situation for him.

[EstWRC]

very solid debut from Virves in Sweden, pushed only on couple of stages to see his speed and on those stages he set TOP3 times.

in Powerstage podcast he revelaed that he drove the whole weekend with the wrong seat, as i understand it was too big for him and on the technical and tricky parts it was actually very hard for him to handle the car cause he couldnt move his hands like he wanted. They had a smaller seat also as an option but that was too small and then the vision would have been bad.

[sturlabr]

Let´s see.
Now it´s Mikkelsen having pressure. Could be kind of new situation for him.

What is the new situation for Mikkelsen?

There is defenitly some drivers with the speed (Solberg, Gryazin, Rossel, Sunninen) in specific rallies, but Mikkelsen is fast on all the rallies.

[Rallyper]

What is the new situation for Mikkelsen?

There is defenitly some drivers with the speed (Solberg, Gryazin, Rossel, Sunninen) in specific rallies, but Mikkelsen is fast on all the rallies.

I´m not all sure when he drove last time. And he wants to go to Rally1 car. That makes pressure.

[meh]

Hopefully there is no "I come and dominate it!" PR stuff from Mikkelsen, this didn't work out too well.

As a benchmark Mikkelsen is definitely valuable, however good are others, he is more stable than average WRC2 driver.

About his Rally1 target... What should happen that there are some (new) seat available?

[mknight]

Let´s see.
Now it´s Mikkelsen having pressure. Could be kind of new situation for him.

You seem to have been on a different planet last 7 years then

- 2017 Germany, his 3 round contract with Citroen was ending with mediocre to bad outings, ended 2nd and got 2 year Hyundai deal
- at Hyundai in 2019 it was one weak rally and kick on next
- in 2021 he said he wanted to dominate every rally, in the end he managed that only on a few but won both WRC2 and ERC title even though he was behind mid season in both championships vs Østberg, Gryazin, Solberg, Lukyanuk, Huttunen, Fourmaux, Suninen
- last year he was behind after the double engine failures and had to win or almost win every rally, from then on, worked on first two (Greece, Ypres) failed on Acropolis

But sure pressure is totally new situation.

[mknight]

I´m not all sure when he drove last time. And he wants to go to Rally1 car. That makes pressure.

Lausnitz rally. First rally for new Fabia, right after he lost the "done" deal for Rally1 at Hyundai.

[Rallyper]

You seem to have been on a different planet last 7 years then

- 2017 Germany, his 3 round contract with Citroen was ending with mediocre to bad outings, ended 2nd and got 2 year Hyundai deal
- at Hyundai in 2019 it was one weak rally and kick on next
- in 2021 he said he wanted to dominate every rally, in the end he managed that only on a few but won both WRC2 and ERC title even though he was behind mid season in both championships vs Østberg, Gryazin, Solberg, Lukyanuk, Huttunen, Fourmaux, Suninen
- last year he was behind after the double engine failures and had to win or almost win every rally, from then on, worked on first two (Greece, Ypres) failed on Acropolis

But sure pressure is totally new situation.

Why are you talking about ancient times?
I´m still on earth, and know there are plenty of young guns (not only Oliver, if that´s what you hung up about) proved fast in WRC2.
Whatever Mikkelsen done in the past, he most presumable have a lot of pressure, not only from himself, but also from sponsors, teams etz.
Let´s hope he can show good speed and be the benchmark guy for the youngsters as everone think.

When was Lausnitz rally?

[RS]

I wonder if we might see Andreas in a BRR Fabia with Red Bull backing? He was a guest at the Janner Rallye which made me wonder this.

[PLuto]

I wonder if we might see Andreas in a BRR Fabia with Red Bull backing? He was a guest at the Janner Rallye which made me wonder this.

There is another driver planning to start with BRR Fabia, but we will see what will happen ;)

[er88]

I think Mikkelsen would be better off paying for that yaris or even puma for 3/4 events, than doing wrc2 again.

Hes been there and done rally2 and it's got him nowhere. Even if he beats Solberg etc this season,, the younger drivers will still be looked at as more favourable by team bosses with "higher potential". Andreas needs 3or4 eye catching results in rally1. He has some funds/backing/sponsorship but thinks he's now above paying?!! His career is dying. He's been in two championship winning teams in VW (when the championship was a 1team championship), then another title winning manufacturer and was trounced by Ogier and Neuville across every season. Even Latvala had more wins at VW.

Malcolm Wilson doesn't rate him, Toyota have never been keen, and Hyundai chose Breen and Lappi over him. Difference is this year, Toyota and Msport will give him a car if he can pay for a few events. Then if he comfortably beats Loubet/Katsuta etc, maybe more opportunities will arise.

Great news for the wrc2 battle though, nice benchmark and would be nice if Meeke /Paddon /ostberg could do an event here or there too

[AnttiL]

I think Mikkelsen would be better off paying for that yaris or even puma for 3/4 events, than doing wrc2 again.

I think two Rally1 events is as expensive as whole WRC2 season. And you don't get Skoda factory support for that...

I don't know, he would maybe need to win those rallies to be noticed by the team bosses. It's really tough to get to Rally1 right now.

[skarderud]

I'm quite sure Stellantis coming into Rally1 from 2025, everyone in wrc2 want to be a part of that team from next year, both young talents and more experienced drivers.

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[sturlabr]

I'm quite sure Stellantis coming into Rally1 from 2025, everyone in wrc2 want to be a part of that team from next year, both young talents and more experienced drivers.

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Interessting, any more info?

[sinepikohv]

I think Mikkelsen would be better off paying for that yaris or even puma for 3/4 events, than doing wrc2 again.

Hes been there and done rally2 and it's got him nowhere. Even if he beats Solberg etc this season,, the younger drivers will still be looked at as more favourable by team bosses with "higher potential". Andreas needs 3or4 eye catching results in rally1. He has some funds/backing/sponsorship but thinks he's now above paying?!! His career is dying. He's been in two championship winning teams in VW (when the championship was a 1team championship), then another title winning manufacturer and was trounced by Ogier and Neuville across every season. Even Latvala had more wins at VW.

Malcolm Wilson doesn't rate him, Toyota have never been keen, and Hyundai chose Breen and Lappi over him. Difference is this year, Toyota and Msport will give him a car if he can pay for a few events. Then if he comfortably beats Loubet/Katsuta etc, maybe more opportunities will arise.

Great news for the wrc2 battle though, nice benchmark and would be nice if Meeke /Paddon /ostberg could do an event here or there too

Apparently one rally with a Rally1-car is 450 000 euros. That's way too expensive to try your luck in a few events.