2022 - Race 21 Brazil

[F1nKS]

Can Max get No. 15?

Is Ferrari sandbagging to let Mercedes pass them by so they get more wind tunnel time?

[airshifter]

I think it's quite possible Max can get #15 if he had a good weekend. Ferrari might be able to challenge if they have their act together, but lately they haven't. Merc still seem to be fighting with the higher speed extended full throttle stuff, so unless they can make that up with handling I doubt they will have much of a shot really. Great progress from Merc lately, but it's the combination of poor Ferrari performance that made them look good in Mexico I think.

As for Ferrari sandbagging, though it seems a strange idea with the new budget cap regs it might make sense at times. The big teams already have the funds for the season covered really, so any loss of money from the season end payouts lessens that blow. If the feel the wind tunnel and CFD time is worth it then it might be a possibility.

[Bagwan]

Oh , so you guys are suggesting that a team would sandbag now , when you had a hard time believing a team would sandbag last year ?

[F1nKS]

Oh , so you guys are suggesting that a team would sandbag now , when you had a hard time believing a team would sandbag last year ?

Generally, sandbagging only occurs when the prize you seek is out of reach and you are thinking about next year. But the simplest explanation is that Ferrari is not sandbagging, they just are an organization in disarray.

[F1nKS]

Watch to see where Ricciardo ends up. Rumors have been he was going to Mercedes. But now there is a rumor he might be going to RBR.

If this is true, then there may be legs to the rumor that Alpha Tauri will be sold to Andretti. Andretti wants a Ricciardo and Haerta team.

[Bagwan]

Generally, sandbagging only occurs when the prize you seek is out of reach and you are thinking about next year. But the simplest explanation is that Ferrari is not sandbagging, they just are an organization in disarray.

If what they are seeking is wind tunnel time , then sandbags might be a way to achieve it , but I tend to agree with disarray theory at Ferrari .

Last year was exciting , and close , because of sandbags .
Perhaps too many sandbags .

[Bagwan]

Watch to see where Ricciardo ends up. Rumors have been he was going to Mercedes. But now there is a rumor he might be going to RBR.

If this is true, then there may be legs to the rumor that Alpha Tauri will be sold to Andretti. Andretti wants a Ricciardo and Haerta team.

I like the sound of those rumours (I guess I should have spelled that "rumors" as the new entry would be American) .

Make it happen .

[gm99]

Watch to see where Ricciardo ends up. Rumors have been he was going to Mercedes. But now there is a rumor he might be going to RBR.

If this is true, then there may be legs to the rumor that Alpha Tauri will be sold to Andretti. Andretti wants a Ricciardo and Haerta team.

But Red Bull have already four contracted drivers for next year, with Max, Checo, Yuki & Nyck de Vries. And the FIA has made quite clear that Colton Herta will not get a super license for next season.

[Bagwan]

But Red Bull have already four contracted drivers for next year, with Max, Checo, Yuki & Nyck de Vries. And the FIA has made quite clear that Colton Herta will not get a super license for next season.

Oh , way to throw cold water on a fun rumour , man .

But , maybe the key is that it's not next year .
And , maybe a sale , now that Didi is gone , is in the plan .

I'd like to see Andretti back in F1 as more than just a corner name .

[F1nKS]

But Red Bull have already four contracted drivers for next year, with Max, Checo, Yuki & Nyck de Vries. And the FIA has made quite clear that Colton Herta will not get a super license for next season.

Not talking about next year. Andretti is saying he is shooting for entry into F1 in 2024.

But Marko did come out this week to try and shoot down the sale rumors


AlphaTauri, may be sold. This is believed to have been said by new CEO Oliver Mintzlaff;

however, close friend of Mateschitz, Dr Helmut Marko, who is a senior Red Bull advisor, revealed to AMuS that AlphaTauri are not for sale and that the current target is to get them towards the front. “The group is doing well,” Marko told Auto Motor und Sport.

Alpine is another rumor Andretti

[Bagwan]

But , what about Brazil ?

I love this track .

[Firstgear]

Haas bookends! I love it!

[airshifter]

Haas bookends! I love it!

I'm guessing that nobody saw that coming!

[Firstgear]

i wonder what the Vegas odds were on that! Tomorrow might be the one time I'll be hoping for a wet rolling start. With a rolling start maybe KMag can hold on for 24 laps. Under normal conditions, he may get swallowed up rather quickly.

[The Black Knight]

It was a good sprint but it annoys me that anyone who causes a red flag in qualifying, costing other drivers their laps then gets to keep their grid position. Russell should have started from 10th on the grid and not been in a position to win it. This is a rule that really needs to change.

[Tazio]

Blamo!!

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[Tazio]

Congrats to George, a well deserved victory. Also a brilliant race by Fred. He got a break from the safety car, which made up for a very poor pit stop.


Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[airshifter]

Congrats to George, a well deserved victory. Also a brilliant race by Fred. He got a break from the safety car, which made up for a very poor pit stop.


Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


George finally gets his first that he was robbed from the first time he was in the Merc during a race. Well done by both Mercs really, and I thought Lewis might have a chance of catching George at the end, but it seemed George was just maintaining the gap.

A great weekend for Merc, and a dismal weekend overall for RB. Both Ferrari scared to switch cars at the end and Max ignoring team orders (team asking?) keep Leclerc and Perez tight in the race for second best.

Great run by Alonso, though I thought Ocon was going to defend hard on the restart, not that it probably would have mattered much. Great result for Bottas as well, just quietly staying up in the points and putting in some good laps when it mattered.



Overall not a bad race. The various strategy changes along with the offs and safety cars kept us all guessing for a decent part of the race.

[Zico]

Good race, congrats to George.. and great drives from Lewis and Fernando.

Sorry.. but Max is a selfish tool for not giving his place to Sergio to help him finish ahead of Charles despite team orders.
Drivers championship is over so why not help out your teammate?. especially after all the help he has provided for Max over the past two years to help him achieve what he has.

Max needs a reality check, no one is bigger than the team.

[N. Jones]

Can anybody explain to me what Monaco is supposed to mean? I keep hearing about it but have not seen any real explanation.

[Firstgear]

Can anybody explain to me what Monaco is supposed to mean? I keep hearing about it but have not seen any real explanation.
from another site:
Talk in the paddock is that the "something that happened in the past" was a reference to Monaco when Perez crashed out on his final run in Q3, thereby denying Verstappen a chance at pole.

[Bagwan]

Max , the little tool , could have let Checo by in the sprint as well , and chose to stay ahead .

Curious though , is that nobody is giving Carlos any hard time about not making his own "team play" by letting his team mate , who is in a tight battle with Checo , take that podium .
It is at least as selfish an act , but no agro at all .

It's a team sport .

Carlos gets a bye here from me , because he got no order to move over .
His team takes the hit for being stupid about it .
LeClerc gets a pooh pooh for whining like a little girl .

And Max isn't making any friends .

[The Black Knight]

What I find most disturbing about this race is that Verstappen admitted in an interview afterwards that he intentionally hit Hamilton. No one in the FIA has picked up on this. Any driver that intentionally crashes into another should not be on the grid. The sport is dangerous enough- we don't need another death. He was very blase about it as well. He needs to be put in his place big time.

[gm99]

Max , the little tool , could have let Checo by in the sprint as well , and chose to stay ahead .

Curious though , is that nobody is giving Carlos any hard time about not making his own "team play" by letting his team mate , who is in a tight battle with Checo , take that podium .
It is at least as selfish an act , but no agro at all .

It's a team sport .

Carlos gets a bye here from me , because he got no order to move over .
His team takes the hit for being stupid about it .
LeClerc gets a pooh pooh for whining like a little girl .


Sainz/Leclerc was at least about a podium finish. As a driver, you don't give up a podium that easily, whereas it would not have made any difference at all whether Verstappen finishes 6th or 7th. Also, Sainz was just three points behind Hamilton prior to yesterday's race and still has a good chance to grab fifth place overall from him.

[Firstgear]

What I find most disturbing about this race is that Verstappen admitted in an interview afterwards that he intentionally hit Hamilton. No one in the FIA has picked up on this. Any driver that intentionally crashes into another should not be on the grid. The sport is dangerous enough- we don't need another death. He was very blase about it as well. He needs to be put in his place big time.
If this is true, he needs to have his points taken away from him like MS did in '97.

[Zico]

What I find most disturbing about this race is that Verstappen admitted in an interview afterwards that he intentionally hit Hamilton. No one in the FIA has picked up on this. Any driver that intentionally crashes into another should not be on the grid. The sport is dangerous enough- we don't need another death. He was very blase about it as well. He needs to be put in his place big time.

Do you have a link to the interview? He didn't in the one I saw... he just said that he knew Lewis wouldn't leave him the space... which is not the same thing.

[Matti]

Verstappen Hamilton Crash - Leclerc Norris Crash - Ricciardo Magnussen Crash | F1 GP Brazil 2022

https://youtu.be/q_JoFnT7u-g

2329

[airshifter]

I do agree Max was a tool for not letting Checo through. At that point it was obvious he wasn't going to win the race, and boosting Checo a couple points wouldn't be much pain. In hindsight, the Ferrari situation was a bit different. Carlos needs some positives and taking away a podium would be hard on the driver in that case.



Do you have a link to the interview? He didn't in the one I saw... he just said that he knew Lewis wouldn't leave him the space... which is not the same thing.


It's hard to create hate and discontent if you use the words in context, so the Max haters will twist the context beyond reality. And of course once you do that, it's easy to justify that it might result in death, since the idea is to discredit only one driver.

And for anyone who actually watches from the onboard on Max's car, it's clear his right wheels are at the edge of the curb, and Lewis causes the contact. Both were already on compromised lines, and both could have easily made the corner. You just can't fit two cars into a 1.5 car width space.

I thought race incident myself, but thought the same with the Ocon/Max incident in 2018. In this case either way a bad move for Lewis, who had a lot more to lose really.

How two world champions can handle the same situation.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_irUPwPoaA

[Bagwan]

Sainz/Leclerc was at least about a podium finish. As a driver, you don't give up a podium that easily, whereas it would not have made any difference at all whether Verstappen finishes 6th or 7th. Also, Sainz was just three points behind Hamilton prior to yesterday's race and still has a good chance to grab fifth place overall from him.

As a team , switching almost secures it for your higher placed driver .
That should be a no-brainer .
It might have been tougher , had it been Sainz's first chance to win , but it wasn't , so it was a chance to sacrifice for his team , the honourable move .

As for a driver not giving up that podium easily , I lose respect for him if he doesn't comply with team orders .
According to Chuck , the situation was discussed and understood by all parties before the race .

That said , though , I didn't hear any orders during the race , despite reminders from LeClerc near the end .

[Bagwan]

What I find most disturbing about this race is that Verstappen admitted in an interview afterwards that he intentionally hit Hamilton. No one in the FIA has picked up on this. Any driver that intentionally crashes into another should not be on the grid. The sport is dangerous enough- we don't need another death. He was very blase about it as well. He needs to be put in his place big time.

Speaking of crashes , every time I hear stories about crypto-currency troubles , I think of you .

You all good on that front ?
This is not a joke , but genuine concern .

[The Black Knight]

Do you have a link to the interview? He didn't in the one I saw... he just said that he knew Lewis wouldn't leave him the space... which is not the same thing.

I don't have a link to it sorry but I saw it live myself and he did admit it. I was actually quite shocked he said it but equally less surprised that nothing will likely be done about it.

[The Black Knight]

Speaking of crashes , every time I hear stories about crypto-currency troubles , I think of you .

You all good on that front ?
This is not a joke , but genuine concern .

Appreciate your concern, Baggy. Yes, all good with me in that front, I checked out most of my holdings about 3 weeks before BTC plummeted from its peak. The rest are still in the green with becauee I bought them years ago. Am happy to hodl 😀

[Zico]

I don't have a link to it sorry but I saw it live myself and he did admit it. I was actually quite shocked he said it but equally less surprised that nothing will likely be done about it.

OK.. but why would Max say he hit Lewis intentionally.. when it was Lewis who didn't leave the space... which he is supposed to do?

[The Black Knight]

OK.. but why would Max say he hit Lewis intentionally.. when it was Lewis who didn't leave the space... which he is supposed to do?

Max said he knew they were going to collide - that's intentionally hitting someone and taking them off. He should be disqualified from the championship as far I'm concerned and be banned. Anyone intentionally colliding with another driver doesn't beling on the grid.

https://www.sportbible.com/formula-1/f1-news-max-verstappen-lewis-hamilton-20221114.amp.html

[Bagwan]

"I knew he wasn't going to leave me enough space , but I went in anyway." is roughly his quote .

It does seem to be an admission .

But it comes with a kind of caveat in the fact that he's effectively saying that if Lewis breaks the rule about leaving space , we crash , which is true .


From Lewis's point of view , he had to have believed Max would back out , as squeezing from the outside was impossible if he didn't .
It's either that , or simple misjudgment of the amount of space he allowed .
From my point of view , it's hard to imagine Lewis thinking Max would back out , and also hard to imagine him having trouble judging the amount of space beside him .


To me , it was a racing incident but BOTH drivers should cop a penalty .

[Zico]

Max said he knew they were going to collide - that's intentionally hitting someone and taking them off. He should be disqualified from the championship as far I'm concerned and be banned. Anyone intentionally colliding with another driver doesn't beling on the grid.

https://www.sportbible.com/formula-1/f1-news-max-verstappen-lewis-hamilton-20221114.amp.html

Going for the move despite knowing/thinking that Lewis would break the rules and not leave space is not even close to being the same thing as hitting Lewis intentionally.

You are removing any responsibility from Lewis to race by the rules and effectively giving him Carte blanche to race however he likes.... and anyone who hits him because of he didnt race by the rules? Your logic.. 'they intentionally hit Lewis'

If you are serious that's just ridiculous dude.

[airshifter]

"I knew he wasn't going to leave me enough space , but I went in anyway." is roughly his quote .

It does seem to be an admission .

But it comes with a kind of caveat in the fact that he's effectively saying that if Lewis breaks the rule about leaving space , we crash , which is true .


From Lewis's point of view , he had to have believed Max would back out , as squeezing from the outside was impossible if he didn't .
It's either that , or simple misjudgment of the amount of space he allowed .
From my point of view , it's hard to imagine Lewis thinking Max would back out , and also hard to imagine him having trouble judging the amount of space beside him .


To me , it was a racing incident but BOTH drivers should cop a penalty .

I'd say at absolute worst a racing incident, but in this case with Lewis more at fault. Watching the various shots, it's clear that Max is moving as far right as possible without climbing the sausage curb. Max doesn't run into Lewis, Lewis runs into Max, who is on a trajectory to follow the inside line of the track on the edge of that curb. Though he is off line by more than a car width vs the usual racing line, Lewis turns in as if Max isn't there, and there is no doubt that he was still well aware Max was there.

To me personally once both drivers have compromised the usual racing line we shouldn't state that either is "entitled" to go back on line with disregard for the other car being in that space. They usually should both compromise further to avoid contact while following the common sense of both leaving a minimum of a car width to track edge, both on the inside and outside of corners.

As for Max's comment, I take it as nothing more than stating he doesn't trust him to leave room in tight racing. Since both have a history here, I can't say that I blame him. Lewis was on the radio instantly claiming it wasn't a racing incident, and I'm sure he wasn't implying he was the one at fault. Both point fingers at the other, as it has been for a while now.




Going for the move despite knowing/thinking that Lewis would break the rules and not leave space is not even close to being the same thing as hitting Lewis intentionally.

You are removing any responsibility from Lewis to race by the rules and effectively giving him Carte blanche to race however he likes.... and anyone who hits him because of he didnt race by the rules? Your logic.. 'they intentionally hit Lewis'

If you are serious that's just ridiculous dude.

When standards are twisted to gross extremes to hate a driver, there is generally only one driving force, that being the hate. Lewis knew they were going to collide as well, after all he was the one that went ahead and turned in.

[Zico]

When standards are twisted to gross extremes to hate a driver, there is generally only one driving force, that being the hate. Lewis knew they were going to collide as well, after all he was the one that went ahead and turned in.

I thought TBK must be on the wind up tbh... but maybe you are right. 🤔

After the incident with Max and Lewis at Silverstone last year, the 3 hardcore Lewis fans were blaming Max for not getting out of Lewis's way... even though Max left a cars width... and now with the shoe on the other foot... the complete opposite opinion.
The sense of entitlement and ability to warp logic to such a degree, is off the scales.

[Zico]

"Verstappen said after the race in Brazil that he had "reasons" for refusing to let Perez back ahead and that he was reacting to "something that happened in the past".

Schumacher set to lose seat as Hulkenberg joins Haas for 2023
'Spygate' - Fifteen years on from the sporting scandal that had everything
How to follow the season finale Abu Dhabi Grand Prix on the BBC
There have been reports that Verstappen believes Perez crashed deliberately at the end of qualifying at the Monaco Grand Prix, an incident that prevented Verstappen completing his final lap, which would have given him a position on the front row.

As it was, Perez and Verstappen qualified third and fourth and the Mexican went on to win the race.

A number of sources have told BBC Sport that Red Bull investigated the incident after the race and that Perez admitted he had crashed on purpose.

But Perez rejected that claim, saying it was "wrong", adding: "That's just speculation, and people creating rumours. We are all aware what is going on and we want to keep it within the team."

Verstappen again refused to expand on his reasons for his actions in Brazil, saying it would "stay between me and the team" but he admitted Red Bull had made mistakes in their management of the race weekend.

"It was about something that happened earlier in the season," he said. "I already explained that in Mexico, and the team understood and agreed.

"We went to Brazil and I thought we were just going go to race and get the best possible result. We had a bit of a miscommunication on Saturday and Sunday. Nothing had been said to me about a potential swap or whatever. It only came into that last lap that it was said on the radio.

"And they should have known my response already from what I said the week before.

"After the race we had some good discussion and put everything on the table and everything has been solved.

"In hindsight, we should have had that conversation earlier. I have never been a bad team-mate, I have always been very helpful. The team knows that. I always put the team up front because it is a team effort at the end of the day. What we learned is we have to be a little more open and we just have to communicate better to each other."

However, Perez said that the conversation after the race in Brazil only covered the events of that day.

Asked how long Verstappen had had a problem with his past actions, Perez said: "I don't know how long it is there. We haven't discussed about it."

Red Bull issued a statement on Thursday admitting they had "made some mistakes in Brazil" and that the team "accepted Max's reasoning".

The statement added: "Max was only informed at the final corner of the request to give up position without all the necessary information being relayed. This put Max, who has always been an open and fair team player, in a compromising situation with little time to react which was not our intention."

On-board camera footage makes it clear that Verstappen was first asked to let Perez by into sixth place after Turn Four on the final lap, and again three times as he exited the final corner."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63664552

Hmm... whatever Max's reasons are I'm just not sure about that Monaco rumour... I'll need to go watch it again.

[denkimi]

didn't get to see the race, but glad to see that hamilton and verstappen still have the old habbit of trying to run each other of the track whenever they have the chance.

i would say it's pretty clearly hamilton's fault this time.

[Firstgear]

Hmm... whatever Max's reasons are I'm just not sure about that Monaco rumour... I'll need to go watch it again.

I watched a youtube video on exactly that the other day. It showed how Perez (on his fast lap) along with 3 other drivers all come on to the throttle very late coming out of that corner. When Perez crashes, he comes back on the throttle very early, then spins and crashes. The video host comes to the conclusion that due to the very early throttle input, it is very likely an intentional crash.

[The Black Knight]

Going for the move despite knowing/thinking that Lewis would break the rules and not leave space is not even close to being the same thing as hitting Lewis intentionally.

You are removing any responsibility from Lewis to race by the rules and effectively giving him Carte blanche to race however he likes.... and anyone who hits him because of he didnt race by the rules? Your logic.. 'they intentionally hit Lewis'

If you are serious that's just ridiculous dude.

It’s precisely the same thing. If you are going for a move, realise you are both going to come together and then decide not to bail then you have intentionally made a decision hit the other driver. Max admitted he knew they were going to collide, he did nothing to lift out of it, therefore he intentionally caused a collision.
Whether Lewis knew they were going to come together is unclear but we certainly know Max did.

Those comparing with Silverstone are way off the mark. There neither driver knew a collision was imminent and both went for it. I still maintain it was a 50/50 racing incident.

[Zico]

It’s precisely the same thing. If you are going for a move, realise you are both going to come together and then decide not to bail then you have intentionally made a decision hit the other driver. Max admitted he knew they were going to collide, he did nothing to lift out of it, therefore he intentionally caused a collision.
Whether Lewis knew they were going to come together is unclear but we certainly know Max did.

Those comparing with Silverstone are way off the mark. There neither driver knew a collision was imminent and both went for it. I still maintain it was a 50/50 racing incident.


You are pretty funny, I'm just not sure if its intentional.

[The Black Knight]

You are pretty funny, I'm just not sure if its intentional.
Thanks for your submission.

[Zico]

Thanks for your submission.

It would only be a submission if I thought you were not either (an admittedly funny) troll... or delusional.

[The Black Knight]

It would only be a submission if I thought you were not either (an admittedly funny) troll... or delusional.

You fail to articulate a response because you have none- therefore, you label me as funny as part of your denial. Either way, it is a submission

[Zico]

You fail to articulate a response because you have none- therefore, you label me as funny as part of your denial. Either way, it is a submission

I've already given you a response but you conveniently ignore Lewis's part in the incident then try to claim my 'submission' because I can no longer take you seriously.

You can't blame it on Max for going for a move knowing that there was a pretty high likelyhood that Lewis wouldn't leave the space that he is supposed to leave. Lewis is the one who broke the rules of racing here, not Max.

[The Black Knight]

I've already given you a response but you conveniently ignore Lewis's part in the incident then try to claim my 'submission' because I can no longer take you seriously.

You can't blame it on Max for going for a move knowing that there was a pretty high likelyhood that Lewis wouldn't leave the space that he is supposed to leave. Lewis is the one who broke the rules of racing here, not Max.

You're confusing blame and intent. If you intentionally hit someone you are to blame. Max didn't start the move with the intent of hitting Lewis, but he did finish it with this intent. Max admits this because he admitted he knew they would collide (not that they were likely to collide as you conveniently skew it). You're assuming because Lewis didn't give Max enough room that he is automatically to blame. This is incorrect. Lewis gave Max the same treatment Max gives everyone else in those situations, no room, with the option of bailing. Just like Imola 2021 first corner with Lewis, Max could have done the smart thing and gone over the kerb like he expects everyone else to do but, as he admitted himself, he intentionally hit Lewis instead. Therefore only he can be to blame for the incident.

[Zico]

You're confusing blame and intent. If you intentionally hit someone you are to blame. Max didn't start the move with the intent of hitting Lewis, but he did finish it with this intent. Max admits this because he admitted he knew they would collide (not that they were likely to collide as you conveniently skew it). You're assuming because Lewis didn't give Max enough room that he is automatically to blame. This is incorrect. Lewis gave Max the same treatment Max gives everyone else in those situations, no room, with the option of bailing. Just like Imola 2021 first corner with Lewis, Max could have done the smart thing and gone over the kerb like he expects everyone else to do but, as he admitted himself, he intentionally hit Lewis instead. Therefore only he can be to blame for the incident.

Your post is so contradictory it doesn't really make much sense. You say Max intentionally hit Lewis but he didn't start the move with this intent... but he finished it with this intent because Lewis didn't leave the space?

What you are really saying is Max shouldn't have made the move if he thought/knew Lewis wouldn't leave the space. Lewis has carte blanche and can do whatever he wants.... and anyone who tangles with him is to blame because the rules of racing don't apply to Lewis. Your sense of entitlement is incredible.

If Lewis had left the space like he is supposed to there would have been no collision, its as simple as that.

[The Black Knight]

Your post is so contradictory it doesn't really make much sense. You say Max intentionally hit Lewis but he didn't start the move with this intent... but he finished it with this intent because Lewis didn't leave the space?

What you are really saying is Max shouldn't have made the move if he thought/knew Lewis wouldn't leave the space. Lewis has carte blanche and can do whatever he wants.... and anyone who tangles with him is to blame because the rules of racing don't apply to Lewis. Your sense of entitlement is incredible.

If Lewis had left the space like he is supposed to there would have been no collision, its as simple as that.

Lewis left him space enough with the options to back out or go over the grass. Max could have hit the brakes to avoid a collision he knew was going to happen or gone over the grass, the same options he affords everyone else when he is racing, instead he chose to intentionally ram another opponent.

You seem to believe that Max has no blame in an incident that he openly admitted he caused. He is 100% to blame and his admission lays blame solely at his feet. Your denial of this is staggering.

[Zico]

Lewis left him space enough with the options to back out or go over the grass. Max could have hit the brakes to avoid a collision he knew was going to happen or gone over the grass, the same options he affords everyone else when he is racing, instead he chose to intentionally ram another opponent.

Max took the corner, he didn't turn into Lewis. Yep, Max could have taken to the grass and risked damaging his car or spinning. He had a choice to make in that moment but he was in no way obliged to jump out of the way. You need to realise that Lewis was already to blame by default for not leaving the space.


If Max had taken to the grass, spun... and collected someone behind would it be Max's fault for spinning too?




You seem to believe that Max has no blame in an incident that he openly admitted he caused. He is 100% to blame and his admission lays blame solely at his feet. Your denial of this is staggering.

Twist it to suit your agenda all you want but Max did not admit he caused the collision, he was implying that he knew Lewis would cause one because he doesn't leave the space.


If I was a Steward, due to how poor visibility is in these cars, I would probably have given Lewis the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know he was there and called it a racing incident but by the letter of the law Lewis was the one who didn't leave the space. You can't blame Max for it when he didn't break any rules.

[The Black Knight]

Max took the corner, he didn't turn into Lewis. Yep, Max could have taken to the grass and risked damaging his car or spinning. He had a choice to make in that moment but he was in no way obliged to jump out of the way. You need to realise that Lewis was already to blame by default for not leaving the space.


If Max had taken to the grass, spun... and collected someone behind would it be Max's fault for spinning too?





Twist it to suit your agenda all you want but Max did not admit he caused the collision, he was implying that he knew Lewis would cause one because he doesn't leave the space.


If I was a Steward, due to how poor visibility is in these cars, I would probably have given Lewis the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know he was there and called it a racing incident but by the letter of the law Lewis was the one who didn't leave the space. You can't blame Max for it when he didn't break any rules.

Aha so now you admitting it's a racing incident- progress. I called it a racing incident in the heat of the moment- but that changes when a driver states he knew they were going to collide and didn't do anything to back out of it. At this point that driver should have been banned from the championship just like Schumacher in Jerez 97.

Max can't have everything his own way. He can't not leave room and expect everyone else to bail out while ramming people in the reversal of the situation.

Any driver that intentionally hits another must be extended zero tolerance and excluded from the championship.

[Zico]

Aha so now you admitting it's a racing incident- progress. I called it a racing incident in the heat of the moment- but that changes when a driver states he knew they were going to collide and didn't do anything to back out of it. At this point that driver should have been banned from the championship just like Schumacher in Jerez 97.

Max can't have everything his own way. He can't not leave room and expect everyone else to bail out while ramming people in the reversal of the situation.

Any driver that intentionally hits another must be extended zero tolerance and excluded from the championship.

Like Lewis at Silverstone? Despite Max actually leaving a cars width. You can't have it both ways!


I'm now admitting its a racing incident? Lol... stop twisting my words or reread it and see that its only because I'd be gracious and give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know Max was there.

I can see that you are not up for discussing it logically and just going to stick your fingers in your ears and I really can't be bothered keeping going round in circles with you. Have a nice day.

[The Black Knight]

Like Lewis at Silverstone? Despite Max actually leaving a cars width. You can't have it both ways!


I'm now admitting its a racing incident? Lol... stop twisting my words or reread it and see that its only because I'd be gracious and give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know Max was there.

I can see that you are not up for discussing it logically and just going to stick your fingers in your ears and I really can't be bothered keeping going round in circles with you. Have a nice day.

Like Lewis at Silverstone... did Lewis admit intentionally hitting Max at Silverstone? No he didn't and he didn't intentionally hit him either. This is the sort of distinction between different incidents you're incapable of making and it is that which has you so confused.

You are also now giving Lewis the benefit of the doubt but earlier you said he was at fault. It can be A or B but not both. You've no case here and are incapable of graciously admitting you're wrong, much like Max, which probably explains why you were defending him to begin with but when your reasoning is deconstructed, it's a load of bollocks.

[Zico]

Like Lewis at Silverstone... did Lewis admit intentionally hitting Max at Silverstone? No he didn't and he didn't intentionally hit him either. This is the sort of distinction between different incidents you're incapable of making and it is that which has you so confused.

You are also now giving Lewis the benefit of the doubt but earlier you said he was at fault. It can be A or B but not both. You've no case here and are incapable of graciously admitting you're wrong, much like Max, which probably explains why you were defending him to begin with but when your reasoning is deconstructed, it's a load of bollocks.


Yes technically Lewis is it fault but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't intentional. Now jog on and stop trying to keep this going, there is just no point. You have your POV, I have mine.

[The Black Knight]

Yes technically Lewis is it fault but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt that it wasn't intentional. Now jog on and stop trying to keep this going, there is just no point. You have your POV, I have mine.

No, you're wrong, you know you're wrong and you just won't admit it.