FIA's reaction on Russian war in Ukraine.

[Sulland]

FIA are dragging their feet, in this case.
Many other international sports federations have tried the same thing, but people and the free press have pressured them to change their view and banned Russia and Belarus from all activity.

This after the doping scandal in their own olympics, where they still are allowed to compete under a different flag.

FIA, with a President from a part of the world where sports washing, human rights and rights for female citizens, do not match the world of 2022, should be a bit more clear in cases like this. The whole world, with few expetions are condemming this war, and supports Ukraine 100%.

So should FIA!
The world have come longer that going to war with a neigbouring country, to grow your own power in a region.

Lets hope pressure on FIA will change their standpoint, and to ban athletes from the countries that started the war!

This has nothing to do with the athletes personalities, and their standpoints. But it has to do with that the world need to send crystal clear signals to Putin and Russia, that we do not accept this behaviour from anyone, using history as a reason to expand your own territory with force!

[rallyfiend]

I agree.

Absolute disgraceful decision yesterday. Complete cop-out given that Russian's aren't competing under their flag anyway. There is almost literally zero change to the conditions...

Mohammed Ben Sulayem had a chance to make a mark of his new leadership of the FIA, and has once again failed.

[WRCStan]

Sulland, you are calling for sports washing. Who is this free press you speak of? The world of 2022? Gimme a break, however widely held or justified these are your opinions.

Should we also pressure to ban the UK for continued occupation of the Chagos, France for assaults in the Sahel, UAE and Saudi for assaults and occupation of Yemen. In fact, all Middle Eastern competitors on human rights grounds, what about Norway for continued legal whaling, Germany for its fossil energy consumption, Finland for military conscription, Hungary on democratic freedoms too? etc etc - Do any of these belong in the homogenous "world of 2022"? Wait we've got no competitors left.

Let politicians do politics and athletes do sport. A better idea is to ban the idea of competing under nationalities and flags, removes all of this argument.

[logic]

If this is happening, lets ban the US, UK, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Dubai, China, Afghanistan and many other countries from sports then because ALL of them have ongoing stuff that is a travesty to humanity.

[wyler]

i think a good move could be to ban any kind of non-sport-related things, like sponsorship or team ownership related to the subject of the sanction. also removing the flag is controversial,it is sure a symbolic action to show contrariety, on the other side not all Russian are war supporter, so a russian flag on a car with peace livery (like luky) could be a strong message too.

[WRCStan]

Motorsport UK have taken the step to ban Russians and Belarussians, in consultation with, but not clear if instructed by, the UK Government. Obviously a move that will affect the circuit stuff more than anything rally related. I would suspect other European states will also follow suit.

https://www.motorsportuk.org/news/motorsport-uk-announces-actions-in-response-to-the-situation-in-ukraine/

[NOT]

Lets attack the peoples of russia... what do you think that will do to them ? you think they will hate their leader or the people who will impoverise them ?

ww1 led to the impoverisation of german people... can you remind me where that lead ? did they hate leir leaders or the world that made them poor ?

so lets say russia becomes a shithole full of poor people with nothing to lose and with no hope... you now have people with nothing to lose but with 6000 nuclear missiles... there is nothing more dangerous than a person with nothing to lose.... who do you think will lose more in a nuclear war ? the west or a disgraced and piss poor russia ?

not allowing ahtletes/artists and common russians to travel to europe does look a lot like the jim crow laws.

[WRCStan]

so lets say russia becomes a shithole full of poor people with nothing to lose and with no hope...

lol. Nah, just joking. But lol.

NOT, the reality is the western nations are at war with Russia. We have to accept there are no niceties in war and civilians will be victims whether it be kinetic or economic war. Governments are going to impose these rules. For me it's important that the Europeans here either declare a belief in European-supremacy or don't assume that a supranational global body should drag Africa, Asia or South America into this war.

[NOT]

lol. Nah, just joking. But lol.

NOT, the reality is the western nations are at war with Russia. We have to accept there are no niceties in war and civilians will be victims whether it be kinetic or economic war. Governments are going to impose these rules. For me it's important that the Europeans here either declare a belief in European-supremacy or don't assume that a supranational global body should drag Africa, Asia or South America into this war.

really ? well they were at war with almost everyone the last few decades korea vietnam iraqx2 yugoslavia afghanistan lybia... but somehow russia is the enemy now. Guess what though... they can inflict some damage as well...

i would have no problem with modern western culture to burn to the ground... and if that cannot happen then i definately not fighting for it.

and guess what, people like me are not a miniscule minority... so have fun.

[WRCStan]

really ? well they were at war with almost everyone the last few decades korea vietnam iraqx2 yugoslavia afghanistan lybia... but somehow russia is the enemy now. Guess what though... they can inflict some damage as well...

i would have no problem with modern western culture to burn to the ground... and if that cannot happen then i definately not fighting for it.

and guess what, people like me are not a miniscule minority... so have fun.

So, should the FIA do something or nothing?

[NOT]

So, should the FIA do something or nothing?

absolutely nothing...

did they do anything when the US invaded and occupied Iraq and afghanistan ? did they do anything when NATO bombed yugoslavia ? Did they do anything when NATO bombed lybia ?

an invasion or a boming is bad thing depending how far you are from it and if the people killed have the same culture as you ? or a bad thing in general ?

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMydLrfWUAo5R0f?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[NOT]

sactions to ordinary people who have nothing to do with this war.... people of Russia are not even allowed to carry their flag...

So they sanction innocent civilians doing their jobs... sounds fair.

[Sulland]

Sulland, you are calling for sports washing.

Who is this free press you speak of?


Please define what you mean by Sportswashing?

The free press is the part of the press that is not state controlled, not controlled by sponsors or others that make journalists write and report in a way that is approved by someone before publishing.

We see in many countries the life as a independant journalist is getting harder. Many are killed because they do their job of informing us.

The reaction that comes around the world these days, are against Putin & Co, and not against the russian people. They are also victims in this war.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Russian driver Gryazin is a Red Bull athlete. I wonder if they will drop him if he doesnt come out against his country's invasion of Ukraine ?

[rallyfiend]

Russian driver Gryazin is a Red Bull athlete. I wonder if they will drop him if he doesnt come out against his country's invasion of Ukraine ?

Has Red Bull themselves made any statement?

If not, no reason for him to fear any repercussions....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

F1 have now terminated the contract with the Russia GP.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/60601632

[Gustav Andel]

This is no conflict and cannot be compared to any military action since WWII. The whole world is united against Russia and making it clear how incomprehensible this action is.

Afghanistan and all similar operations have always been controversial but have always had the support of half the world or people. Here Russia has invaded a sovereign state that has never threatened them militarily. Russia doesn't just want to lose its vassals even though these states have democratically decided otherwise.

That's why I totally agree and the exclusion of Russia and athletes from all actions. Mostly I agree because most of the statements are along the lines of "we want peace" and a lot of regret... But this is bullshit and lies, they must say I am ashamed of my president and my country for invading another country and killing civilians. Dear Mr. President end this war you started for your power interests!

Feel free to take the separatist pro-Russian states if they want but leave the free state and peace.

Russian athletes are celebrities and they must express their opinion fully so that even ordinary Russians finally understand how totalitarian and dangerous their country is.

[wyler]

This is no conflict and cannot be compared to any military action since WWII. The whole world is united against Russia and making it clear how incomprehensible this action is.

Afghanistan and all similar operations have always been controversial but have always had the support of half the world or people. Here Russia has invaded a sovereign state that has never threatened them militarily. Russia doesn't just want to lose its vassals even though these states have democratically decided otherwise.

That's why I totally agree and the exclusion of Russia and athletes from all actions. Mostly I agree because most of the statements are along the lines of "we want peace" and a lot of regret... But this is bullshit and lies, they must say I am ashamed of my president and my country for invading another country and killing civilians. Dear Mr. President end this war you started for your power interests!

Feel free to take the separatist pro-Russian states if they want but leave the free state and peace.

Russian athletes are celebrities and they must express their opinion fully so that even ordinary Russians finally understand how totalitarian and dangerous their country is.

way way easier said than done, if u live there...

[WRCStan]

Please define what you mean by Sportswashing?

Using sport to further your political goals. Unless FIA is a political entity then leave the political decisions to politicians.

There's no significant free press anybody here can name. Times have changed in 20 years, any entity now does its own journalism direct to consumer without need for the middlemen, so the middlemen stick to what the entity wants, to maintain access privilege as controlled by that entity's media officer. Independent investigative journalism is a dying niche, I agree, but because not enough people really care. That's my belief, but even your definition of free press wouldn't be pressurising anybody to kick back on Russia like you first said, else it's not free. Further point, there's no such thing as news even - it's only information or beliefs somebody somewhere wants you to know or have, else they just wouldn't say it.

Somewhat along those lines, this statement stinks of bias:


The world have come longer that going to war with a neigbouring country, to grow your own power in a region.

If you can't see why I would suggest widening your scope of sources, if you can. Russian media is being banned everywhere oops lol.

[wyler]

basketball very well known coach Messina:

"There is no such thing as sport pretending to be a world unto itself. I am convinced that it was important that the international federations have established a mechanism by which they suspended the Russian teams."

"I disagree with those who say that sport must stay out of politics because anything we do in life is political, any position we take is political," the 62-year-old added.

[NOT]

They even banned russian cats from entering competitions... and paralympic athletes from competing in evens... you know people who are crippled for life and a huge part of their life are the events...

but sure... we do not have anything against russian people... we just treating them like not part of this world because we do not like their choices in politics...

in the first 4 days of the kuwait war 20k soldiers and 10k civilians (thas 10.000) where killed...

Kadafi was sodomised with a bayonette before being lynched

Afganistan was invaded by a whole county to capture one man... who they then killed in Pakistan.

but sure... Russian are the bad guys.

[WRCStan]

but sure... Russian are the bad guys.

Russia poisoned an entire English City, has interfered with elections, sponsored politicians, lobbies and groups, bombed civilians in Syria, the Caucuses, fought proxy wars and armed rebels around the world too. We know you're emotional but don't be acting like you can't understand the situation, or please try and make a relevant point.

[WRCStan]

basketball very well known coach Messina:

"There is no such thing as sport pretending to be a world unto itself. I am convinced that it was important that the international federations have established a mechanism by which they suspended the Russian teams."

"I disagree with those who say that sport must stay out of politics because anything we do in life is political, any position we take is political," the 62-year-old added.

Just as long as he's aware that he is advocating that his own non-sporting beliefs could have himself cancelled.

[NOT]

Russia poisoned an entire English City, has interfered with elections, sponsored politicians, lobbies and groups, bombed civilians in Syria, the Caucuses, fought proxy wars and armed rebels around the world too. We know you're emotional but don't be acting like you can't understand the situation, or please try and make a relevant point.

yes they did all that... they did what superpowers do for centuries..

the issue is never before in history we saw a reaction like that from the rest of the western world...

they even banned cats... you think its normal ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/03/russia-cat-ban-ukraine-war/

[Norm75]

They even banned russian cats from entering competitions... and paralympic athletes from competing in evens... you know people who are crippled for life and a huge part of their life are the events...

but sure... we do not have anything against russian people... we just treating them like not part of this world because we do not like their choices in politics...

in the first 4 days of the kuwait war 20k soldiers and 10k civilians (thas 10.000) where killed...

Kadafi was sodomised with a bayonette before being lynched

Afganistan was invaded by a whole county to capture one man... who they then killed in Pakistan.

but sure... Russian are the bad guys.
What choice does the majority of the world have though NOT.
I agree with you, thousands, probably millions do too, that these sanctions are not fair on Russian athletes, or for that matter the majority of Russian civilians either.
121 countries condemn Putins actions, 5 don’t. It is the free world that condemn it, those countries that dont are led by dictatorships and their media is heavily censored. Those with a free voice are against it, those whose opinions are heavily censored and monitored are not.
Those of us against it don’t want a war, so these actions are put in place to try and change the outcome for the good as peacefully as posible.

[NOT]

everyone condems putins invasion... its war... you have to be autistic not to cendemn a war.

condeming a war is different from imposing sanctions.

what free world are you talking about ? why you fail to recognise that some people do not like democracy... they just do not like it, they prefer dicators, kings communists, fascists... you name it.

if the west did not want war they would not plant a muppet in ukraine... yianukovits was also elected... and they overthrew him with the orange revolution.

its funny how revolutions are revolutions when the leader that follows is accepted by the democratic west and a coop when they do not like him...

the question is simple... are you willing to die for ukraine ? are you willing to risk a nuclear war because of ukraine ?

Americans did not allow cuba to have nuclear weapons... if china start arming mexico or cuba or colombia or venezuela what would america do ? if america started arming taiwan with nyclear weapons what china would do ?

i am not willing to die for anyone... and as i said if things go bad and europe turns into ash and if i somehow i survive i will dance on its degenerate ashes....

[wyler]

everyone condems putins invasion... its war... you have to be autistic not to cendemn a war.

condeming a war is different from imposing sanctions.

what free world are you talking about ? why you fail to recognise that some people do not like democracy... they just do not like it, they prefer dicators, kings communists, fascists... you name it.

if the west did not want war they would not plant a muppet in ukraine... yianukovits was also elected... and they overthrew him with the orange revolution.

its funny how revolutions are revolutions when the leader that follows is accepted by the democratic west and a coop when they do not like him...

the question is simple... are you willing to die for ukraine ? are you willing to risk a nuclear war because of ukraine ?

Americans did not allow cuba to have nuclear weapons... if china start arming mexico or cuba or colombia or venezuela what would america do ? if america started arming taiwan with nyclear weapons what china would do ?

i am not willing to die for anyone... and as i said if things go bad and europe turns into ash and if i somehow i survive i will dance on its degenerate ashes....

so, what's your proposal for stop the war?

[NOT]

the proposal is if you are next to a superpower do not act like a retard.... and ukraine went full retards...

all of the latin americas have USA muppets as leaders...apart from a very few.. and guess what... they are shitholes... i wonder who is to blame...

[Sulland]

This is the definition that pops up on wikipedia:
Sportswashing is the practice of an individual, group, corporation, or nation-state using sport to improve their tarnished reputation, through hosting a sporting event, the purchase or sponsorship of sporting teams, or by participation in the sport itself.

So in the last years we can list:

2014 Russia winter olympics
2018 Russia football world cup
2022 China winter Olympics and Paralympics
2022 Football world cup in Qatar this summer
2021 F1 races in the Persian Gulf countries, that quickly popped in during Covid.


Reasons for this is that international federations have made the tournaments too expensive to arrange, so very few nations are willing to use that kind of money. Many documentaries also on corruption and buying of votes to get the majority of the votes on choosing venue.

Many Oligarks are openly or more hidden invested in Premier League and other large fooball league to wash money.

All of this is done to make the countries look ok to the world, but nothing changes on the ground.
But when many federations consist of old men, that think more on themselves than people of the country they represent we end up in situations that should have been avoided.

And by the way, most of the conflicts NOT are mentioning was started by the US. After a while they needed a bailout by NATO + all other countries that wanted to participate.

But trying to get sense into the head of a ex KGB agent, now dictator, that now has taken refuge from the world, and is surrounded by Yes men, is not easy.
That is why some sanctions might look harsh, but is needed to get truce, and negotiations for peace.

War should be a thing of the 20th century, now we should reach agreements via talking in the same room as grown ups!

[wyler]

the proposal is if you are next to a superpower do not act like a retard.... and ukraine went full retards...

all of the latin americas have USA muppets as leaders...apart from a very few.. and guess what... they are shitholes... i wonder who is to blame...

that not nearly a reply to my question. we already have a war. the "what if" and "they should have done" related to the past are good exercise only for people not being bombed. question was, we have a war, what do you propose foe helping stop it?

[NOT]

let russia do what they want and suck it up... banning cats and athletes will get everyone in Russia behind Putin, not against him.

[Norm75]

Don’t go down the autistic road again NOT ffs.
I am autistic.

So you believe Putins bullshit?
Ukrain have no nuclear weapons. They aren’t going to be allowed to join NATO any time soon as that would and always has created a risk of war, and do you really believe Putins line that Ukrain is a nazi state, even though the prime minister has Jewish roots, and a country of 44million with no nuclear defence is likely to start a war with a country that has the worlds largest nuclear arsenal and is outnumbered by another 100 million?

The west just want a country that wants for democracy to have it.

[wyler]

let russia do what they want and suck it up... banning cats and athletes will get everyone in Russia behind Putin, not against him.
so you are basically legitimate killing people more than cat ban. that's speaks a lot.

[logic]

Russia poisoned an entire English City, has interfered with elections, sponsored politicians, lobbies and groups, bombed civilians in Syria, the Caucuses, fought proxy wars and armed rebels around the world too. We know you're emotional but don't be acting like you can't understand the situation, or please try and make a relevant point.

None of the countries involved in this whole thing have a clean slate. The US for instance which every one praises has a dirty track record.

[NOT]

so you are basically legitimate killing people more than cat ban. that's speaks a lot.

My problem lies with the fact that the cat ban happened only for the people of ukraine... Iraquis were not people? Yugoslavias ? Afghans ? Vietnamese ? Lybians ?

Did we ban cats then ? If not why ?

[wyler]

My problem lies with the fact that the cat ban happened only for the people of ukraine... Iraquis were not people? Yugoslavias ? Afghans ? Vietnamese ? Lybians ?

Did we ban cats then ? If not why ?

thought the fact i can agree with you on that particular topic, it's diverting the discussion, and it's totally out of context here.
at the moment, in this particular context, i think cat ban ( meaning all kind of diplomatic-political-economical intervention) is way better than any kind of military-armed action (including accepting russia occupation). When people will stop dying from bombs, then we can open a beer and discuss all the injustice in the world and how evil is whoever we like. at the moment the priority is to stop the violence, and if a cat ban helps, here or in any other country, then I'm ok with it.

speaking now of other places, nations, political interest, past times is just speaking about our privilege.

[ouvreur]

As with most discussion on the internet, I think the fairest reaction here is somewhere between the two positions being given.

Yes, many other countries do bad things, and are still allowed to host sports events. It's something our leaders and regulators need to give more consideration to, rather than legitimising corrupt regimes, taking billions from countries with shady track records, or being part of dictators' propaganda.

But, the fact is, sport has been a big part of Putin's rise to power and longevity. He's made a lot of effort to ingratiate himself with elite athletes, teams and sporting events. Motorsport has earned millions, if not billions, from both the state and Russian industry (some of that money being from VERY dubious sources). While it may seem harsh to those individual athletes, some of whom will most likely be against the invasion of a peace-seeking neighbour, to ban them from competition, it's the only option sport has to both show its displeasure with the situation, and try to put some pressure on the dictator.

(I should add at this point, I strongly disagree with the assertion that Ukraine have gone 'full retard' and brought this invasion on themselves. It's not their fault their big brother is run by a paranoid maniac with nostalgic memories of the Soviet Union, and if they want to join NATO, or the EU, feeling safer in their embrace than that of Russia, that's up to them. They've been given pretty good evidence in the last 9 days which of their neighbours they should trust.)

So, in these circumstances, sport is at least partly to blame for the dictator's popularity, and has a role to play in facing up to him. All it can do is say no to Russian finance and participation, until it starts acting like a state which deserves to play the games it's spent so much effort and money trying to win.

Motorsport doesn't have any Russian 'national' teams to ban (Haas jokes aside), so for me, prohibiting Russian nationals from participating in elite level sport (at least where an international license is necessary) seems fair enough. What more can it do?

[WRCStan]

I wish I had the nuclear button so I could obliterate this thread, Jesus H. Christ.

EDIT: RUSSIAN DOGS BANNED FROM CRUFTS
https://www.crufts.org.uk/press-releases/update-about-exhibitors-from-russia-at-crufts-2022/

[Norm75]

My problem lies with the fact that the cat ban happened only for the people of ukraine... Iraquis were not people? Yugoslavias ? Afghans ? Vietnamese ? Lybians ?

Did we ban cats then ? If not why ?Those countries did not have nuclear arms, so the US etc were happy to go in and bomb them.
Russia are nuclear so it’s not in the best interest to start a war, hence the draconian measures of banning cats.

[NOT]

Those countries did not have nuclear arms, so the US etc were happy to go in and bomb them.
Russia are nuclear so it’s not in the best interest to start a war, hence the draconian measures of banning cats.

and why the rest of the world did not apply any sanctions to the US ?

what makes this war different from the rest the US and NATO launched ?

Are ukranians more human than Iraquis/afghans ects ects ?

[seb_sh]

so let me get this straight, because in the past there was less outcry for horrible things happening we should let this one slide as well?

[NOT]

so let me get this straight, because in the past there was less outcry for horrible things happening we should let this one slide as well?

yes.

the things that happened did not happen the previous century... they happened almost yeasterday.

USA troops withdrew from their invasion in Afghanistan last month...

as i said... its like the world faced an invasion of a superpower in another country for the first time in the last 1000 years...

as we speak Yemen has a food crysis due to saudi arabia... AS WE SPEAK CHILDREN ARE DYING BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO FOOD DUE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY.... where are the sactions ???? did that piece of hypocritical shit sulland had a yemeni flag in his avatar all that time ???

the west is so shocked by russias invasion that they banned russian cats... they dehumanise russian athletes and banning them from events... they do not allow people to carry out their national flag like its disgracefiul to be russian... A university in Milan stopped teaching Dostoevsky... in germany they fired a russian orchestra conductor... in greece they did not allow a russian ballet play... why do not accelerate things and open up Auschwitz and Dachau for russians as well ??

yet this war is about the oligarchs right ? oligarchs will probably go for 1000 bilolion to 990 billion... and maybe they will not be able to fly to monaco and the italian riviera in the summer....

[flat_right]

the proposal is if you are next to a superpower do not act like a retard.... and ukraine went full retards...

I don't know where are you from but I guess you are not familiar what Ukrainians want, at least the younger generation. They are fed up with this Russian shit, corruption, propaganda and they aspire let's say this "free world" what West is living. They are very mad about Yanukovych's EU deal rejection in 2013 (thanks to Putin of course), where they had a chance to start moving towards EU. And now, this was again on the table and THIS is the reason why Putin invaded Ukraine. He didn't want to lose its Little Russia. In Belarus, he already has a puppet (Lukashenko) and he wants the same in Ukraine also (Putin reportedly wants to put Yanukovych back in power). Ukrainians are fighting for freedom and PLEASE UNDERSTAND - it is their choice, they are fighting the war there.

Now why everybody are mad and (over)reacting? Mainly because it is happening HERE, in Europe and we are emotionally connected to this. And also we are afraid what Russia might do next. Putin himself has said that the breakup of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century (google it!)! So who are next? Baltics? Poland? Pretty sure... He wants to go down to history as the restorer of this "Soviet Union brotherhood". This is the reason why we are reacting so hard, because if we wouldn't do that, there are next countries on the line. The price we are paying now is much smaller if we would do it later. And actually in Estonia our politicians are saying that this is the bare minimum that we have done so far and we should do more. And we can do more! But it will be harder because every sanction that we approve here in EU, has to be approved by all EU members. And the harder the sanction, then it more difficult to get all EU members behind it, because in the end, we have to protect our own countries also. So at least we in Estonia are feeling that Ukraine is fighting for our freedom and we are doing a lot to help Ukrainians.

So banning sports and cats... you know I personally think that Putin doesn't care if Gryazin, Lukyanuk or Mazepin race. Maybe he cares about hockey, martial arts etc but in a grand scheme of things I doubt! The main thing here is that we are sending a message, that it is not okay if you continue like this. For example if an Ukrainian biathlete Yevhen Malyshev (RIP) had to go home and defend his land then it is not okay, if competitors from Russia and Belarus can compete at the same time! And it is also better for the sport, if Russians are banned because there is a theme emerging that athletes do not want to compete against the them (cross-country skiing, Para Olympics etc).

[NOT]

I don't know where are you from but I guess you are not familiar what Ukrainians want, at least the younger generation. They are fed up with this Russian shit, corruption, propaganda and they aspire let's say this "free world" what West is living. They are very mad about Yanukovych's EU deal rejection in 2013 (thanks to Putin of course), where they had a chance to start moving towards EU. And now, this was again on the table and THIS is the reason why Putin invaded Ukraine. He didn't want to lose its Little Russia. In Belarus, he already has a puppet (Lukashenko) and he wants the same in Ukraine also (Putin reportedly wants to put Yanukovych back in power). Ukrainians are fighting for freedom and PLEASE UNDERSTAND - it is their choice, they are fighting the war there.

Now why everybody are mad and (over)reacting? Mainly because it is happening HERE, in Europe and we are emotionally connected to this. And also we are afraid what Russia might do next. Putin himself has said that the breakup of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century (google it!)! So who are next? Baltics? Poland? Pretty sure... He wants to go down to history as the restorer of this "Soviet Union brotherhood". This is the reason why we are reacting so hard, because if we wouldn't do that, there are next countries on the line. The price we are paying now is much smaller if we would do it later. And actually in Estonia our politicians are saying that this is the bare minimum that we have done so far and we should do more. And we can do more! But it will be harder because every sanction that we approve here in EU, has to be approved by all EU members. And the harder the sanction, then it more difficult to get all EU members behind it, because in the end, we have to protect our own countries also. So at least we in Estonia are feeling that Ukraine is fighting for our freedom and we are doing a lot to help Ukrainians.

So banning sports and cats... you know I personally think that Putin doesn't care if Gryazin, Lukyanuk or Mazepin race. Maybe he cares about hockey, martial arts etc but in a grand scheme of things I doubt! The main thing here is that we are sending a message, that it is not okay if you continue like this. For example if an Ukrainian biathlete Yevhen Malyshev (RIP) had to go home and defend his land then it is not okay, if competitors from Russia and Belarus can compete at the same time! And it is also better for the sport, if Russians are banned because there is a theme emerging that athletes do not want to compete against the them (cross-country skiing, Para Olympics etc).

Can you remind me the sanctions to the USA when they did not allow cuba to bring missiles from russia ? can you remind me the outrage and the bans when the USA installed puppets all over latin america ? can you remind me the outrage when NATO bombed EUROPE in yugoslavia with the EXACT same reasoning as russia uses today ? that a genocide takes place ?

yanukovic was ELECTED !!! same as Zelezny and Poroshenko.... the difference is Yanukovic fell because of a revolution... do you have any evidence that the revolution was not fulled by the west ?

is it ok if russia starts to arm Cuba and mexico ? or to bring nuclear weapons to yugoslavia ?

and as i said... name the sanctions NATO and the US got for all the invasions and the wars they caused... name the sanction saudi arabia got...

its about double standards... not if russia is right or wrong.

suddenly its ok to dehumanise a whole nation stripping them of their jobs and dignity because what they did its close to home...

[Norm75]

Ok, let’s all do nothing. Ukrain will fall, Lithuanian will be next. Then Latvia, Estonia and so on.
The Russian media are ordered to tell the Russian civilians that Ukrain is committing genocide, and NATO is preparing to bomb Russia. Lies but that is what they are being told as propaganda to get them on side.
Maybe, just maybe, the Russian people are intelligent enough to work out that the reason that independent broadcasting companies in Russia are being shut down, and most global companies are pulling out of Russia might be because their government, or more specifically their leader is a nut job and that is why a large majority of the world are putting all these sanctions in place.

[NOT]

and the western media told that yugosalvia was commiting genocide.. and they bombed maternity hospitals... but those were not lies... only russia lies.

and putin is a nutjob not clinton, not bush...

and maybe russians will wake up and overthrow putin...but not biden or macron....

don't you find it a bit suspicious that every war the west did was completely justified and there should not be any sanctions...

Russia leveled chechnya a few years ago... why they did not sanction them then ? chehchens are expendable ?

[Norm75]

You are properly hung up on the past aren’t you NOT.
Compare Putin to Bush and Clinton if you will, but if the latter two were anywhere near the megalomaniac Putin is they wouldn’t have walked after 8 years, and would have done a Putin and changed the laws. Funny how he does 8 years, sticks a puppet in for 4 years while he still has his arm up his arse controlling him before putting himself in again and changing the law so he can remain until 2036.

[NOT]

You are properly hung up on the past aren’t you NOT.
Compare Putin to Bush and Clinton if you will, but if the latter two were anywhere near the megalomaniac Putin is they wouldn’t have walked after 8 years, and would have done a Putin and changed the laws. Funny how he does 8 years, sticks a puppet in for 4 years while he still has his arm up his arse controlling him before putting himself in again and changing the law so he can remain until 2036.

if russians have no problem about it then why are you upset ?

the saudis have kings until they die... why you cannot accept that some people just do not like democracy where every retard can cast a vote and affect their lives...

is yemen in the past ? where are the sanctions for saudi arabia ? the US occupied afganistan and had a puppet as president until about a month ago...

[WRCStan]

and why the rest of the world did not apply any sanctions to the US ?

what makes this war different from the rest the US and NATO launched ?

Seriously?

Are you really asking why the world didn't apply sanctions to the US when the US went on global hegemony enforcement trips at a time when the US had global hegemony? The answer is because the US had global hegemony. Underneath you are also asking why didn't the Russias, Chinas and Irans sanction the US, but seem to be directing the question angrily at the west.

I think you underestimate how the geopolitical stage has shifted a lot in 20 years. Militaries and economies are stronger than they used to be and the US doesn't have that global power anymore. Check this economic graphic out. (https://i.redd.it/5w38fcf8txd71.jpg) Putin knows it and is pushing testing it, but Russia has limited global military and economic influence but for nihilism with natural resources. As opponents the US and Europe are applying economic sanctions but these do not include anything related to energy, so Russia will still continue to provide, at least for the time being, oil and gas to Europe until it wants to use it as a weapon. The important point here is that no matter who you are or who you hate you don't shit in your own shoes, and that's why the world didn't cause a fuss over Iraq and Afghanistan.

Turkey are in NATO but they aren't applying sanctions. Their economy is in a poor state but they fear invasions from all around so NATO is a convenience for now. If the EU gets its military, if NATO collapses, if China decides to go offensive globally, WW3 could be really exciting. For now China is quietly continuing to build on it's global military reach whilst facing an economic battle, and along with Iran, Pakistan and a lot of uninvolved countries are not interested in applying sanctions as they no longer feel threatened by the US.

Saudi Arabia are allies of the west, the Houthis are allied to Iran who are actually under western sanctions. It's a proxy war, it's not nice at all for civilians. Do you want the west to get involved more or do you just want to blame them? Are there Russian or Chinese sanctions? I'm not aware of them. The UAE are also involved in occupying Yemen, they control Socotra and are also interested in having military strength in the region, one of many nations with bases up the Red Sea.

As for Ukraine, I agree with you there has been interference from both sides over recent decades. That's the nature of the geopolitical beast. Same with how Moldova and Georgia are suddenly apparently interested in joining the EU in the space of one week. Sorry friends who believe the EU is the free world with no evil, this hasn't happened organically.

Cuban missile crisis is ancient history, let that go, also looks like Serbia has sided with the west now.

So in answer to your question there used to be one world power, now there are very many and more trying to be one. All that said, probably better to go read books by experts on the matter or find better sources on the state of the world in which you live then argue with emotion back and forth on motorsport forums.

[Norm75]

if russians have no problem about it then why are you upset ?

the saudis have kings until they die... why you cannot accept that some people just do not like democracy where every retard can cast a vote and affect their lives...

is yemen in the past ? where are the sanctions for saudi arabia ? the US occupied afganistan and had a puppet as president until about a month ago...
Why do you make assumptions of what upsets me or what I can and can not accept?
I don’t give a flying fk if a country wants to be democratic or led by a dictatorship.
Do the Russians have a problem with a dictator that doesn’t allow people to run against him in elections, or worse get murdered, or win an election that was obviously rigged? Well they have had enough demonstrations to show that yes, those that are brave enough to show it do have a problem actually.
Do not forget that if you protest in Russia you will likely end up in prison, be seen as a traitor so it is very difficult for Russians to say they have a problem.

[seb_sh]

I learned from this thread that NOT knows even less about geopolitics than about rally, and that's quite an achievement. Also his mouth is just as big as before and personal insults to forum users continue. Sanction NOT!

[Norm75]

I learned from this thread that NOT knows even less about geopolitics than about rally, and that's quite an achievement. Also his mouth is just as big as before and personal insults to forum users continue. Sanction NOT!

I think NOT is entitled to his opinion, even if we don’t agree.

Anyway, we have a school local to us in another village, they are collecting aid for Ukrainians, mainly supplies for infants to help them try and get through this terrible time for them. My wife and I have a shop in another village and have set up a hub for supplies to be dropped there and I will collect them and take them to the school. Already within a few hours there is quite a lot so thankfully not everyone thinks we should sit back and do nothing.

Edit: to be fair NOT has refrained from personal insults in this thread, a little harsh to put that one on him.

[WRCStan]

FIA demands for drivers from Russia and Belarus: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/driver_commitment.pdf

Nothing new really, drivers must acknowledge the FIA stands with Ukraine, cannot carry any Russian/Belarus flags, colours, symbols, support, play anthems etc.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

FIA demands for drivers from Russia and Belarus: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/driver_commitment.pdf

Nothing new really, drivers must acknowledge the FIA stands with Ukraine, cannot carry any Russian/Belarus flags, colours, symbols, support, play anthems etc.

No more "From Russia with love" on Gryazin's car then. (Even though he's 'Latvian' when it suits... )

[dimviii]

“Thanks to the rally community and motorsport community, I have had huge support from all over the world and from different people from different countries except two countries. No-one from Russia or Belarus, no-one from people I was racing against made a proper, decent, big-balls decision. They all hide to their… I don’t know.

“Maybe they are in the queues for cash machines because they will have no money soon because of sanctions or something like this, but they are real cowards. I can tell it to everyone of the guys: [Alexey] Lukyanuk, [Nikolay] Gryazin – all those guys, they are not motorsport people. They are people who are afraid, who are cowards basically to take positions.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/ukranian-co-driver-opens-up-on-life-in-kyiv/

[NOT]

“Thanks to the rally community and motorsport community, I have had huge support from all over the world and from different people from different countries except two countries. No-one from Russia or Belarus, no-one from people I was racing against made a proper, decent, big-balls decision. They all hide to their… I don’t know.

“Maybe they are in the queues for cash machines because they will have no money soon because of sanctions or something like this, but they are real cowards. I can tell it to everyone of the guys: [Alexey] Lukyanuk, [Nikolay] Gryazin – all those guys, they are not motorsport people. They are people who are afraid, who are cowards basically to take positions.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/ukranian-co-driver-opens-up-on-life-in-kyiv/

see how happy he is that ordinary people will have problems with their every day lives ? but its about putin of course and the oligarchs...

just wish kadyrovs batalion does not ever kIEV...

[NOT]

Seriously?

Are you really asking why the world didn't apply sanctions to the US when the US went on global hegemony enforcement trips at a time when the US had global hegemony? The answer is because the US had global hegemony. Underneath you are also asking why didn't the Russias, Chinas and Irans sanction the US, but seem to be directing the question angrily at the west.

I think you underestimate how the geopolitical stage has shifted a lot in 20 years. Militaries and economies are stronger than they used to be and the US doesn't have that global power anymore. Check this economic graphic out. (https://i.redd.it/5w38fcf8txd71.jpg) Putin knows it and is pushing testing it, but Russia has limited global military and economic influence but for nihilism with natural resources. As opponents the US and Europe are applying economic sanctions but these do not include anything related to energy, so Russia will still continue to provide, at least for the time being, oil and gas to Europe until it wants to use it as a weapon. The important point here is that no matter who you are or who you hate you don't shit in your own shoes, and that's why the world didn't cause a fuss over Iraq and Afghanistan.

Turkey are in NATO but they aren't applying sanctions. Their economy is in a poor state but they fear invasions from all around so NATO is a convenience for now. If the EU gets its military, if NATO collapses, if China decides to go offensive globally, WW3 could be really exciting. For now China is quietly continuing to build on it's global military reach whilst facing an economic battle, and along with Iran, Pakistan and a lot of uninvolved countries are not interested in applying sanctions as they no longer feel threatened by the US.

Saudi Arabia are allies of the west, the Houthis are allied to Iran who are actually under western sanctions. It's a proxy war, it's not nice at all for civilians. Do you want the west to get involved more or do you just want to blame them? Are there Russian or Chinese sanctions? I'm not aware of them. The UAE are also involved in occupying Yemen, they control Socotra and are also interested in having military strength in the region, one of many nations with bases up the Red Sea.

As for Ukraine, I agree with you there has been interference from both sides over recent decades. That's the nature of the geopolitical beast. Same with how Moldova and Georgia are suddenly apparently interested in joining the EU in the space of one week. Sorry friends who believe the EU is the free world with no evil, this hasn't happened organically.

Cuban missile crisis is ancient history, let that go, also looks like Serbia has sided with the west now.

So in answer to your question there used to be one world power, now there are very many and more trying to be one. All that said, probably better to go read books by experts on the matter or find better sources on the state of the world in which you live then argue with emotion back and forth on motorsport forums.

are you familiar with the term rhetoric question ?

[WRCStan]

are you familiar with the term rhetoric question ?

Why are you being a c.nt towards everybody here?

[NOT]

Why are you being a c.nt towards everybody here?

yes,

i tend to give people what they deserve.

[WRCStan]

yes,

i tend to give people what they deserve.

are you familiar with the term rhetoric question ?

[flat_right]

see how happy he is that ordinary people will have problems with their every day lives ? but its about putin of course and the oligarchs...

just wish kadyrovs batalion does not ever kIEV...

He should be happy :) It is Putin who is invading a free democratic country. Or do you see it differently?

So how is it? You also can't buy a Mac and can't use international bank cards? Or your favorite boy band is not coming to Russia? Do sanctions make you so angry? Good!

[seb_sh]

Edit: to be fair NOT has refrained from personal insults in this thread, a little harsh to put that one on him.

there is at least one on page 5

[NOT]

there is at least one on page 5

yes you are right... i called that hypocritical Norwegian piece of shit a hypocritical piece of shit... because he is one.

[flykas]

see how happy he is that ordinary people will have problems with their every day lives ? but its about putin of course and the oligarchs...

just wish kadyrovs batalion does not ever kIEV...

And how can you know if regular people have nothing to do with it? I know that there are huge oppressions within russia, but for example Gryazin is doing quite okay I'd say, so how would you know if they really care about it when they have an option to just ignore it and just go about their regular business whole thee thing take place.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

'Home of Rallying' now in fear...

Russian invasion fuels Finnish support for joining Nato:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60626536

[Sulland]

'Home of Rallying' now in fear...

Russian invasion fuels Finnish support for joining Nato:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60626536

Both Nordic PFP+ nations are discussing joining NATO.
Lets see what will be the end results of the discussions.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Gryazin out of Fafe Rally as no-one there will supply tyres to him...

https://www.rtp.pt/noticias/ralis/russos-falham-rali-serras-de-fafe-e-felgueiras-por-falta-de-pneus_d1389877