2022 Car Launches and Livery Thread

[airshifter]

Being the first one is tomorrow, might as well start the thread now. Though HAAS is openly stating that it won't show much more than the livery, I kind of expect all the teams to be doing that this year. With the regs changes nobody wants to show off any tricks they found in the grey areas of the regs. In all fairness, I think very few tricks will be visible this year, other than the entry to the underside of the car.... and that won't vary as much as a lot of stuff has over the years probably.

Everyone announced now other than Williams. I hope that is just because they are still working their tails off and not as worried about showing a car that doesn't resemble the race car much anyway.


Haas – February 4

Red Bull – February 9

Aston Martin – February 10

McLaren – February 11

AlphaTauri – February 14

Ferrari – February 17

Mercedes – February 18

Alpine – February 21

Alfa Romeo – February 27

Williams – TBA

[airshifter]

https://e2.365dm.com/22/02/768x432/skysports-haas-f1-launch-car_5662331.jpg?20220204110444


It looks like Haas has shown more than the mock up car the FIA made, though no doubt it will change more. They pushed the sidepod mass forward to about the limits of the design constraints, and though seeming legal, probably not what the FIA was hoping for in terms of looks. Some altered images of the reveal renderings also show a beam wing in the rear, the rear brake exit, and a few other goodies.

The front wing from the front is also not the mock up car wing by all appearances, and seems to have grown to the outer limits of height toward the center area of the wing. The curves in the wing seem to want the downforce in a very specific area, and avoid it near the nose and in front of the wheels.

Good stuff..... I hope the others remain interesting in design and unique enough to give us some real idea of what they will look like on track.

[Zico]

All I'm going to say is... If they look anything like the Haas, its a thumbs up from me.
I'm not really a fan of the increasingly vast multitude of aero devices we have had in F1 years, so a far cleaner looking, more sculpted car would be much more up my street.

Its maybe a bit early to know what they will end up looking like but what is the general consensus here... I'm not happy they are still so big.. and also heavier.. but do you agree that they will lijely look better and that its a really positive step overall if it does even half of what they are hoping to achieve?

[airshifter]

I hope the new cars have a cleaner look as well. Sometimes all the little aero devices are distracting, even if it is amazing the lengths they go to in attempts to control airflow. With the newer regs requiring some tighter packaging, I expect far fewer of those strange little devices in most cases.

With RB being the next reveal, it will be interesting to see if they show their hand at all, or display something based on the FIA models. We'll see in a few days.

[airshifter]

RB has already made statements that what we will see won't be the car that shows up at testing, which won't be the car that shows up at the first race. At least they will come out and just say it like it is, and I expect most teams to follow suit.

And just in case anyone hasn't looked, most of these reveals will stream live on some platform.

[Bagwan]

I'm not so sure I like the look of the wing structure above the front wheels .
It seems like these things are going to be flying debris at some point .

[airshifter]

https://www.formula1.com/content/dam/fom-website/manual/Misc/2021manual/2021BritishManualAdds/2022CarImages/2022CarImageRENDERS/F1%202022%20-%20SILVERSTONE%20-%2003.jpg.transform/9col/image.jpg


Bagwan,

I don't think they will be all that bad. As the demo car shows, they won't have any major protrusion out over the tire, and attachmnt points are to the inside. The only thing that would rip them off would likely be something going over the wheel itself, and usually in that case things have gone bad already. Overall there should be a lot fewer small bits subject to launch on car contact or a heavy curb hit, which is a good thing IMHO.

[airshifter]

As expected, RB showing no tricks at all with their supposed reveal. I find it funny that even though they made this public, people are upset that they are even calling it the RB18. I don't think they have done anything other than maybe some really minor changes to the display car... barely.

There is still Honda branding on the car, thought subtle. After all the back and forth it appears that the engines will continue to be made in Japan and Honda will retain all the IP secrets. For now they are holding their cards close due to rumors of possible changes with Porsche/Audi involvement in the sport. Only time will tell if that happens or not.


https://cdn-wp.thesportsrush.com/2022/01/99363288-personal-vlog-youtube-thumbnail-57.jpg

[Bagwan]

https://www.formula1.com/content/dam/fom-website/manual/Misc/2021manual/2021BritishManualAdds/2022CarImages/2022CarImageRENDERS/F1%202022%20-%20SILVERSTONE%20-%2003.jpg.transform/9col/image.jpg


Bagwan,

I don't think they will be all that bad. As the demo car shows, they won't have any major protrusion out over the tire, and attachmnt points are to the inside. The only thing that would rip them off would likely be something going over the wheel itself, and usually in that case things have gone bad already. Overall there should be a lot fewer small bits subject to launch on car contact or a heavy curb hit, which is a good thing IMHO.

Point taken on "things have gone bad already" , but I'm seeing trouble coming from curb hits as I can't quite imagine how they'll be able to completely stop them from slapping the top of the tires when a driver gets it just slightly wrong .
It's probably fortunate that they will be running the 18 inchers , as it seems more workable with less movement out of the tire , itself , but it looks to me to still be a hard ask to keep them in place on all the cars out there .

I do like the look of less furniture on the cars though .

But , it looks more like a moveable aerodynamic device to me than does a mass damper , for example .
It doesn't look like "open wheel" racing .

[Zico]

I've seen a few people mention on YT that these cars are just liveried up mock ups of the same 3 that the FIA produced and are not actual real chassis, that just doesn't sound right though, surely not..


Do you guys think they will have to be driven a bit differently being ground effect cars.. ie; much less kerb taking?

[Kenneth]

Well Aston revelead actual car, unlike RB and HAAS.

[airshifter]

Point taken on "things have gone bad already" , but I'm seeing trouble coming from curb hits as I can't quite imagine how they'll be able to completely stop them from slapping the top of the tires when a driver gets it just slightly wrong .
It's probably fortunate that they will be running the 18 inchers , as it seems more workable with less movement out of the tire , itself , but it looks to me to still be a hard ask to keep them in place on all the cars out there .

I do like the look of less furniture on the cars though .

But , it looks more like a moveable aerodynamic device to me than does a mass damper , for example .
It doesn't look like "open wheel" racing .

When you look at the inside of the wheel, the upper flap will have quite a bit of support. I expect they will just make it strong enough to take whatever pressures they expect. Keep in mind that past years cars had a lot of crazy little fences, flip ups, etc that all looked very fragile but stayed planted at speed, until they impacted with something at least.

As for moveable aerodynamic device... I can't disagree that it is. I still don't understand the mass damper thing myself, as really it was part of the suspension, all of which moves and has been accepted for years. But the powers that be decide when they can and can't alter the rules so here we are.




I've seen a few people mention on YT that these cars are just liveried up mock ups of the same 3 that the FIA produced and are not actual real chassis, that just doesn't sound right though, surely not..

Do you guys think they will have to be driven a bit differently being ground effect cars.. ie; much less kerb taking?

The RB had next to nothing other than livery, and was essentially the mock up car. Haas showed some changes, not huge but at least the sidepod design changes and how and where the intake sits. Aston Martin seems to have shown a possible real car, at least most likely. Lots of changes from the FIA mock up models, and enough detail to make me think they wouldn't waste that much time if it wasn't the real car.

Every indication I've seen from the experts is that all cars will be much closer to flat and very low rake. And there have been concerns about the underside of the car and curbs, but most expert types seem to think that the overall ride height will remain much the same, and there is no great concern involved. But at the same time, they warn that just like the older cars, at times those limits will be found, but hopefully disbursed more equally along a bigger section of underbody, thus not as much isolated damage when it happens. The air flow disruption seems highly debated though.... I guess we will find out.



Well Aston revelead actual car, unlike RB and HAAS.

I think they did, and if so it kinds of kills the idea many had of "cookie cutter spec car" limitations on the cars. When compared to the Haas car the sidepods, intake area, undercuts, and coke bottle sections are massively different. I think it's a radical departure from what many expected to see, with more exposed floor section to work with, and obviously a differing angle.


https://a1.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2022%2F0210%2Fr972553_1199x480_5% 2D2.jpg&w=920&h=368&scale=crop&cquality=80&location=origin&format=jpg

That side pod undercut is much bigger than the mock up cars, as well as the Haas.

https://i.ibb.co/1RHGbFf/vf22amr22.png

[airshifter]

It appears the Mclaren has also released an actual car. Though no doubt they are still hiding some under the floor goodies, it's obviously not the mock up car.


https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/63vAPEEY/s1200/daniel-ricciardo-mclaren-mcl36-1.webp

Sidepods once again different from the Haas or Aston Martin, and it appears in detail shots that they have gone with a pushrod rear suspension. The front wing element almost touches the tire as evidenced from above. Wing detail also show "steps" towards the wing ends before the upswept sides, probably an attempt at molding air around the tire squish areas. No brake ducts to be seen, but obviously all those things will be added.

Some undercut on the side pods, but not nearly to the extremes of the Aston Martin. They aren't as wide as the Haas either.

Thus far, we are completely breaking the idea that all the cars would look so much more similar.

https://i.imgur.com/toBfyWl.jpeg

[Zico]

Every indication I've seen from the experts is that all cars will be much closer to flat and very low rake. And there have been concerns about the underside of the car and curbs, but most expert types seem to think that the overall ride height will remain much the same, and there is no great concern involved. But at the same time, they warn that just like the older cars, at times those limits will be found, but hopefully disbursed more equally along a bigger section of underbody, thus not as much isolated damage when it happens. The air flow disruption seems highly debated though.... I guess we will find out....


Thanks for the info. Yes it is a pretty major spec change, I'm looking forward to hearing what the drivers all think of them. Norris has said he prefers the old car but that opinion is probably only based on his sim work. If they are more difficult to drive then so be it.

I just pray that the next big Reg change does not go down the non IC electric route, I couldn't watch that. Hydrogen IC next, ideally a V10... in fact lets just make it a V12. ;) The day they sound like a slot car/milk float, that will be it for me.

[airshifter]

Though nothing is carved in stone until it is, it is looking more and more like the ICE will remain the same for the next regs changes. Electrical capacity will up significantly from the current 120kW to 350kW. This is interesting to me since they are getting rid of the MGU-H due to complexity. It seems fuel will move towards a "cleaner" source, so some ICE power losses might come into the picture. I can only guess that they think greater harvesting and increased battery efficiency will fill the void, with almost 470 HP available through the MGU-K.

I'm surprised they haven't made the ICE smaller, or with fewer cylinders, unless they need the current V6 to offset battery weights. But either way it looks like the ICE will stay in place in the next generation of cars. So we will see.....




Some supposed leaked photos of the Alpha Tauri car are showing up. They are crappy photos not worth posting IMHO, but they might be real. They seem to show a really boxy intake and fairly steep downward raked rear side pod, and the undercut is visible. If they are the real deal, it will be another different approach. I guess we will see tomorrow. :)

[Bagwan]

Rumour has it that cars will need to be carbon neutral and compostable .

OK , maybe not , but just maybe F1 changes the world here .

Clearly , battery storage is not there yet .
Formula E shows us that , and is a great foil for the big show .

Until batteries get there , the ICE is here to stay , but with diminishing power due to less dense , more renewable fuels .
Mind you , they'll also sort new ways to make those fuels more efficient , so the size will perhaps drop accordingly as they do .


The whole show should run on fart gas .
Methane is far worse for the earth than too much carbon .

I vote for V12s , run on fart gas .

[airshifter]

Rumour has it that cars will need to be carbon neutral and compostable .

OK , maybe not , but just maybe F1 changes the world here .

Clearly , battery storage is not there yet .
Formula E shows us that , and is a great foil for the big show .

Until batteries get there , the ICE is here to stay , but with diminishing power due to less dense , more renewable fuels .
Mind you , they'll also sort new ways to make those fuels more efficient , so the size will perhaps drop accordingly as they do .


The whole show should run on fart gas .
Methane is far worse for the earth than too much carbon .

I vote for V12s , run on fart gas .

We have to prove proof of concept for a sustainable fart gas fuel supply. Being the only common animals that exist in all countries with races and testing might be humans..... well that could get complicated. Collections points at the sports bars where some watch the races or will this be a commodity that is harvested in home through ventilation systems? :laugh:

[airshifter]

Another reveal, and yet another difference visible without looking hard.

AT has almost square side pod intakes, and the side pod shape is unique as well. It looks as though they went with some undercut, but also a lot of shaping towards the rear, that seems to n indicate they are trying to manipulate two major paths for airflow. Not as wide as some cars, but falling towards the middle. Some of the detail shots really show off the two different "drops" in the body of the car.



https://e1.365dm.com/22/02/768x432/skysports-alpha-tauri-f1-car_5673369.jpg?20220214110613



https://e2.365dm.com/22/02/768x432/skysports-alphatauri-f1-car_5673370.jpg?20220214110653

The upper line seems to follow the slope of the halo down to the back of the car. The front and rear wings still look a bit generic to me, but maybe they are.

They had some white wheel covers shown on some of the early livery concept images, and I liked them. But I guess they got dropped at some point.

[airshifter]

Spied during shakedown runs, though not the official reveal yet. Or maybe it is... I'm not sure!



https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race-com.appspot.com/1/2022/02/front-wing-2048x1365.jpg


Fairly large intake on the side pod, but this front view doesn't really do justice to how much effort went into sculpting these things. As with most cars suspected of being "real" cars, the lower element of the front wing is suspended by the second element. This seems to be a trend. As a note, though the new cars have front wings that appear higher off the ground, that is mostly due to the lack of rake rather than major front end regs changes. The forward section of the Williams car has a much more rounded nose cone, while most others are essentially flat.


Overall, it seems that this car is very unique in a couple of areas. I sure hope it works for them, I'd hate to see the Williams team continue to struggle.



https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race-com.appspot.com/1/2022/02/sidepod.jpg

It seems they went to great lengths to terminate the sidepods quickly, and they are so tight you can see the bumps from the crash structure clearly. The downwash down onto the top of the floor section allows plenty of room for a more conventional coke bottle rear end.

[airshifter]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/YMdnykl2/s1200/valtteri-bottas-alfa-romeo-c42-1.webp

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/27vWmV30/s1200/valtteri-bottas-alfa-romeo-c42-1.webp

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/0mb98ak2/s1200/valtteri-bottas-alfa-romeo-c42-1.webp

Another approach yet again.

It appears that Alfa went to great lengths on the side pods as well. It's hard to say what they are doing at the front, but there is a massive undercut on the pods, and it seems they are paying a lot of attention to the floor edges. The front wing seems to have a lot of intricate shapes as well, with some waves to some extent. It looks like quite a bit of this car is revealing more than most have. Only time will tell, but it looks great even in the camo IMHO.

I was one of the people expecting cars to come much closer in appearance with the new regs. I guess I was way off base with that. It looks like the teams all have varied theories on the flow over the pods and how to direct it. It may turn out that what we can see on top is more interesting than what they are trying to hide below.

[The Black Knight]

The new Ferrari looks like a peach. If it's as fast as it looks it'll be a demon.

[Bagwan]

We have to prove proof of concept for a sustainable fart gas fuel supply. Being the only common animals that exist in all countries with races and testing might be humans..... well that could get complicated. Collections points at the sports bars where some watch the races or will this be a commodity that is harvested in home through ventilation systems? :laugh:

I found a website once , where the amounts of methane gas that could be created from different animal manures were listed , and it told you specifically , to heat a 1500 square foot house , at 47 degrees latitude , how many chinchillas you need .
They had an "ark-full" of choices , but , with sewage treatment plants ripe for the picking , you're probably right about the sports bars , just not there in front of the TVs .

[airshifter]

The new Ferrari looks like a peach. If it's as fast as it looks it'll be a demon.

I was waiting until it was official. It sure does look different. Who got it right..... I'm not sure. But it seems Ferrari have taken (yet another) unique approach to the car and side pod sculpting.




I found a website once , where the amounts of methane gas that could be created from different animal manures were listed , and it told you specifically , to heat a 1500 square foot house , at 47 degrees latitude , how many chinchillas you need .
They had an "ark-full" of choices , but , with sewage treatment plants ripe for the picking , you're probably right about the sports bars , just not there in front of the TVs .

Well crap.... no chinhchillas's? :laugh:

[airshifter]

https://d3cm515ijfiu6w.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/17131705/FLzPfzzX0AIQa2F-1.jpg

Massive molding on the top of the side pods. Already being called "ponds, lakes, craters, etc" and who knows what else. Many different theories on what they are going with here, but the general idea seems to be that the heat coming out of the vents will somewhat create a small boundry layer that decreases as the air mixes with the ambient temp air. But even some of the aero gurus can't agree on the full impact they will have. Not much for undercut on the sides, but some.

https://d3cm515ijfiu6w.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/17133934/FLzPfz0XoAM1Rak-1.jpg

Not as radical looking from the side view, but still unique for sure. But the inlets and the distinct boxy outer edges of the side pod are distinct. The addition of the black on the front of the tunnel inlets and strakes makes it easier to kind of see how things work to some extent.

The top edge of the wing endplates is flat, and seems fairly large. Some shots of the RB shakedown seem to look like this is an approach RB might have taken as well.




Though the official Merc launch is tomorrow, I expect them to hide as much as they can, and the only "real" car we will see is on track. It seems like the RB shakedown run netted a few crappy photos and not much else. Some of these teams are going to a lot of trouble to hide their hand as long as possible.

[airshifter]

Some interesting details on the Merc but it doesn't seem to be the radical departure that some have taken so far.

https://i0.wp.com/cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/0rGgbem2/s8/mercedes-w13-floor-and-sidepod-1.jpg?w=900&ssl=1

Tight packaging around the intake and side pod areas. The strakes leading to the tunnel are probably subject to change, but they also have a lot of detail at the floor edges. Some of the wavy "lasagne noodle" shapes, and some fairly aggressive undercuts and angles on the floor edges.

https://i0.wp.com/www.automundo.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Mercedes-AMG-F1-W13-E-Performance-9.jpg?resize=768%2C512&ssl=1

The front wing elements appear to all attach individually to the nose, probably for rigidity in that inboard section. Obviously leaving the wing flatter to feed the tunnels towards the center, and then creating the downforce mostly in the mid wing section.

https://d3cm515ijfiu6w.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/18142904/george-russell-mercedes-shakedown-sillverstone-2022-planetf1-1200x630.jpg

More evident in this shake down photo is the curve in the lower element of the rear wing. Though they had to deal with some high winds and rain for the shake down run, Russell stated that they car seemed to behave the way they felt it would and similar to their simulator setup.

They showed a lot more than I was expecting, but then again everything could change quite a bit more before testing.





Some shaky and low res photos of the real RB car during shake down runs, but they really don't show enough to bother posting them IMHO.

[Bagwan]

From that shot on the damp track , I am cautiously happy to see the wake looks taller but not as wide .

[airshifter]

From that shot on the damp track , I am cautiously happy to see the wake looks taller but not as wide .

There are some wet weather spray mist shots from several cars, and the aero changes look promising in that respect. Even a very small amount of water that we can see with the naked eye will stay lower to the track and fall quicker as compared to running in dry air. And even with that in mind, it looks like things behind the cars will be cleaner as far as the aero wake.

[Bagwan]

There are some wet weather spray mist shots from several cars, and the aero changes look promising in that respect. Even a very small amount of water that we can see with the naked eye will stay lower to the track and fall quicker as compared to running in dry air. And even with that in mind, it looks like things behind the cars will be cleaner as far as the aero wake.

I didn't understand your second sentence .

[airshifter]

I didn't understand your second sentence .

Just pointing out that the aero wake we see with water mist is not as dispersed as it would be in dry air.

[Bagwan]

Just pointing out that the aero wake we see with water mist is not as dispersed as it would be in dry air.

Ok , that spun my head a tad , but I think I get it .

I would have thought , though , that the form of the plume would pretty reasonably represent the effect of the low pressure area , and , outside of that , wet or dry , you were "home-free" .

Is the wake actually wider in the dry ?

[Zico]

Enjoying seeing a bit of variety in the various design solutions.
As interesting and stunning as the Ferrari is, its probably still hard to look past Merc as favs with their short lifespan 'rocket' engine.
Hope I'm wrong though, would be great to see Ferrari back at the sharp end.

[airshifter]

Ok , that spun my head a tad , but I think I get it .

I would have thought , though , that the form of the plume would pretty reasonably represent the effect of the low pressure area , and , outside of that , wet or dry , you were "home-free" .

Is the wake actually wider in the dry ?

I somehow actually deleted my reply while trying to fix some typos. :laugh:

The plume would give a fairly good representation of the aero wake, but the water droplets being heavier it is a bit deceptive. The general shape stays the same for the most part, but the weight of the droplets and mist make it fall quicker. In reality the air itself would remain in roughly the same shape, but with the majority staying up higher longer than the mist. I've seen a few photos that people darkened to highlight the flow, and it looks promising for following cars.

ScarbsF1 (I think he changed his social media names actually now) stated in a video that he now expects that it might be common for a following car to line up more "nose to back tire" for reasons of various aero changes. It will be interesting to see if he got it right.

[Bagwan]

I somehow actually deleted my reply while trying to fix some typos. :laugh:

The plume would give a fairly good representation of the aero wake, but the water droplets being heavier it is a bit deceptive. The general shape stays the same for the most part, but the weight of the droplets and mist make it fall quicker. In reality the air itself would remain in roughly the same shape, but with the majority staying up higher longer than the mist. I've seen a few photos that people darkened to highlight the flow, and it looks promising for following cars.

ScarbsF1 (I think he changed his social media names actually now) stated in a video that he now expects that it might be common for a following car to line up more "nose to back tire" for reasons of various aero changes. It will be interesting to see if he got it right.

I get it now .
Thanks for that .

Does he mean , when he says "nose to back tire" , that there will be a heavier central blast of wake ?
That would make sense , but add an extra bit of fun turbulence when a following driver does close in .


It smells like it could be a good season ahead .

[Mark]

Best livery of the reveal season, Ferrari - I mean it's not even close is it? I just hope they are fast this year!

Worst - Alpine. Alfa haven't released yet but I they'd have to go some way to end up worse!

Special mention. Mercedes - on paper the silver, red, blue combo shouldn't work, but it does!

It does help that the cars in general are gorgeous this year.

[airshifter]

As expected, the actual on track RB18 is quite a bit different to what we have seen.

https://f1tcdn.net/gallery/var/resizes/2022/bcn-feb23/006.jpg


Massive undercut at the front of the pods, along with a scoop of sorts that extends in front of the intakes quite a distance. The "non bargeboard" strakes at the front of the exposed floor area are the subject of a lot of speculation.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMRC-9sWUAgfVPS?format=jpg&name=small

From above you can see how far these side strakes push forward. It appears RB have gone to great lengths to make sure the unwanted air off the front tires is washed outboard. The exposed floor area under the pods is a large surface. Most teams went with more exposed area towards the rear of the car, similar to the Merc approach.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMRGXBHXMAIzLrT?format=jpg&name=medium

RB join the number of other teams suspending the lower element of the front wing. Other shots show some very creative suspension geometry. It seems that several teams now have various sized access covers of some type on the front nose section. So far I don't think anyone really knows for sure why, and speculation is all over the place. Hopefully testing will allow some photos to catch the covers off and expose the truth.

[Bagwan]

Ah , there's the rub .

Drivers are starting to notice less slipstream , thus , it sounds like my dream of a world with the dreaded DRS may not come to pass .

Perhaps the DRS has softened them , or at least , spoiled them .

[Zico]

Ah , there's the rub .

Drivers are starting to notice less slipstream , thus , it sounds like my dream of a world with the dreaded DRS may not come to pass .

Perhaps the DRS has softened them , or at least , spoiled them .

Indeed... imagine being able to follow closer but with a much reduced slipstream, it turned out that the net effect was actually negative. That would be pretty sad.
I guess whatever the outcome is, they will simply balance it out by playing with the DRS parameters either way.

[airshifter]

Getting rid of DRS would be so nice. But we would have a lot of drivers that wouldn't know how to pass any more! Most of them weren't around before DRS was introduced.

Reports look decent on the following, and if they can follow close enough DRS might not be needed. The reason the big tow was needed (both pre and post DRS) was mostly due to the fact that you couldn't follow closely out of a corner so had to overtake on long straights. IF we could get rid of DRS and go back to the old way.... that would be grand. Or if nothing else shorter DRS zones, if needed.

[Bagwan]

Ah , so , advantage Alonso then .

Tame the porpoise is the new game .
I worry about curbs , and that first step out into raw air when making a pass , or coming over a rise in the track , or a combination of any or all three scenarios .

I hope we don't see any cars flip when I see severe bounce like that .
They will be able to control some of that effect , but it illustrates the extreme loss of suction that occurs to produce the effect in the first place .

[Zico]

Ah , so , advantage Alonso then .

Tame the porpoise is the new game .
I worry about curbs , and that first step out into raw air when making a pass , or coming over a rise in the track , or a combination of any or all three scenarios .

I hope we don't see any cars flip when I see severe bounce like that .
They will be able to control some of that effect , but it illustrates the extreme loss of suction that occurs to produce the effect in the first place .



Porpoising has to make fast curves a far greater challenge on the limit, it must really also affect corner grip balance, not my idea of fun. I'm getting vibes that this could be far from being a typical season.

[Bagwan]

Porpoising has to make fast curves a far greater challenge on the limit, it must really also affect corner grip balance, not my idea of fun. I'm getting vibes that this could be far from being a typical season.

Something I just read coming from Alpine was that they weren't using DRS , and , although they didn't say it , it smelled to me like they may have had some problem with detachment when they opened it .

They said the problem was at top speed , and that they weren't scared to open it , but didn't because they were being cautious .
The interview stated that they had tamed the back end of the car with Alonso's adjustments , but any comparisons with the others were made with estimates of speed gained through DRS , not reality .

Hey , maybe the DRS will prove to be a liability because it triggers this instability inherent in these design parameters , and it will force them to do away with it !
A guy can hope .

[airshifter]

These guys are crafty Baggy, they will get it all figured out in time for the races.

But we can still hope that DRS goes away regardless!

[Bagwan]

Big , crazy stories out there about the new Merc , with rumours saying it may have no sidepods at all .
I've seen conceptual pictures , and it looks pretty cool , evoking an early era car for me , but I have no idea if it's even possible .

They are saying it will hit the track tomorrow , so we'll see if the rumours are true .

[airshifter]

Yep, the rumors on that one have been swirling really hard. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

No telling what other changes we will see from the other teams as well. But it looks like they are all working hard.

[Zico]

Big , crazy stories out there about the new Merc , with rumours saying it may have no sidepods at all .
I've seen conceptual pictures , and it looks pretty cool , evoking an early era car for me , but I have no idea if it's even possible .

They are saying it will hit the track tomorrow , so we'll see if the rumours are true .

Yes, crazy stories indeed.
I initially dismissed it as a wind up but it has gained so much traction that I'm now trying to imagine that it might be possible and where they might be pulling the air required for cooling from
Still having problems believing it though as it would likely require a pretty major repackaging/redesign... in a season of tightened budget constraints.

I guess we will find out soon enough..

[Bagwan]

If it does indeed look like the rendering I've seen , it gives me hope that the new rules might have inspired a new generation of cars here that don't look as if one painted them all the same colour , they would all look identical .

Already , we have some different approaches to the sidepod designs , but removing them altogether was not on my radar at all .
If this thing is real , it's exciting as hell , in my eyes , even if they've made a sizeable jump away from the others in performance .

It begs a lot of questions , though .
How can they cool things properly ?
How can they make up for loss , presumably , in downforce ?
How can they still pass a side impact test in that configuration ?

The bonus in a lack of drag is obvious .

Jeez , I hope it's for real . The thing looks like a friggin' fighter jet .

[airshifter]

Bagwan, I'll give you all the answers if and when it happens. Well, after the more technical people get enough photos and explain to use how it happens. How about just wait until I send you a link or ten if it happens? :laugh:


There doesn't seem to be a lot of options other than centerline cooling if they went to an actual "NO" sidepod. But the Williams has tiny pods now, and they might be able to do it. With all the regs being so hard to decipher, I'm not sure what options they would have. I would have to guess that with budget restrictions and such that they wouldn't fake the initial pods to only make massive changes later, so the basic concept would likely still be similar. And really the technical regs seem to require that the primary air to water coolers are fairly simple by requirement.

But I've often wondered why nobody has come out of the box on radiators. It would seem to me a long thin radiator mounted on top of the floor, as an example, might be easy to work around and have the same volume and heat removal as a radiator more rectangular. But there might be something in the regs that prohibit such an approach.



We will find out soon, and at least this time we might see some actual coverage without waiting for all the press made videos







ETA, maybe ScarbsTech has it nailed? :laugh:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNacAIjX0AgdAqm?format=jpg&name=large

[Bagwan]

Bagwan, I'll give you all the answers if and when it happens. Well, after the more technical people get enough photos and explain to use how it happens. How about just wait until I send you a link or ten if it happens? :laugh:


There doesn't seem to be a lot of options other than centerline cooling if they went to an actual "NO" sidepod. But the Williams has tiny pods now, and they might be able to do it. With all the regs being so hard to decipher, I'm not sure what options they would have. I would have to guess that with budget restrictions and such that they wouldn't fake the initial pods to only make massive changes later, so the basic concept would likely still be similar. And really the technical regs seem to require that the primary air to water coolers are fairly simple by requirement.

But I've often wondered why nobody has come out of the box on radiators. It would seem to me a long thin radiator mounted on top of the floor, as an example, might be easy to work around and have the same volume and heat removal as a radiator more rectangular. But there might be something in the regs that prohibit such an approach.



We will find out soon, and at least this time we might see some actual coverage without waiting for all the press made videos







ETA, maybe ScarbsTech has it nailed? :laugh:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNacAIjX0AgdAqm?format=jpg&name=large

It looks like Scarbs wasn't that far off , but it doesn't look quite as radical as it might have .
The mirror mount seems to be taking the place of some of the crash structure , and there are rumblings about it being too "aero" .

I understand there is a "melted chocolate bar" look to it , not so much like a fighter jet .

[airshifter]

The new Merc sidepods look really strange to me, but really they are still bigger than what some were claiming. It looks to me like they just moved most of the intake surfaces down lower and essentially rotated a small intake 90 degrees. Hard to say how it will work in the long run, with teams taking such differing approaches.

RB are expected to change to some visible upgrades tomorrow, and spent today doing baseline testing on the existing stuff.


Ferrari look to be in decent shape, but no major changes to be seen yet.


We are only a week off the first race when we find out how it all sorts out this year!

[Zico]

Not quite 'sidepodless' but still impressively reduced nonetheless.
I always (wrongly?) assumed the sidepod dimensions were cooling airflow volume dictated but now it appears that they may have been more structure dimension related?

Judging from Merc possibly/allegedly being able to run their engines in a very lean high power mode last year... and now this, I can't help wondering if there is a corealation and Merc have made some clever cooling tech advances to allow them to be able to do either.

[Bagwan]

Not quite 'sidepodless' but still impressively reduced nonetheless.
I always (wrongly?) assumed the sidepod dimensions were cooling airflow volume dictated but now it appears that they may have been more structure dimension related?

Judging from Merc possibly/allegedly being able to run their engines in a very lean high power mode last year... and now this, I can't help wondering if there is a corealation and Merc have made some clever cooling tech advances to allow them to be able to do either.

Pat Symonds says :
"The intercooler that I was talking about, I think, comes from Reaction Engines in Oxfordshire, the people who are doing this sort of air breathing rocket motor, and the sort of spin-off from that has been this really extremely efficient heat exchanger technology."

[Zico]

Pat Symonds says :
"The intercooler that I was talking about, I think, comes from Reaction Engines in Oxfordshire, the people who are doing this sort of air breathing rocket motor, and the sort of spin-off from that has been this really extremely efficient heat exchanger technology."

Nice quote find Baggie, thanks.:)
Had to google the company, looks to be real cutting edge thermal managment.
https://reactionengines.co.uk/motorsport/

I doubt Merc are the only ones using this tech though.

[Bagwan]

Nice quote find Baggie, thanks.:)
Had to google the company, looks to be real cutting edge thermal managment.
https://reactionengines.co.uk/motorsport/

I doubt Merc are the only ones using this tech though.

Probably not , since bag and Pat let the cat out of the bag .