First Among Equals

[ArrowsFA1]

Or maybe not. It seems that Bridgestone have varied their deals with different teams on the 2007 grid :(

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56009

The single tyre supplier regulation doesn't officially come into place until 2008 so I guess Bridgestone are within their rights to do whatever they please in 2007 :crazy:

[555-04Q2]

Makes sense. Bridgestone are supporting the teams that supported them for years. While I dont agree with it from a sporting point of view, I would do the same for my customers. In fact, we do that already for our loyal customers. A guy who walks off the street and wants the same deal as a customer of mine who has bought from us every month for the last 20 years is not going to get the same deal.

[Donney]

Here's to the fairness of the sport! :beer:

[555-04Q2]

There's nothing unfair about it.

[ArrowsFA1]

In a business/legal sense 555-04Q2 is absolutely right. Bridgestone have no obligation to provide the same level of service to each and every team. They do from 2008 onwards.

Due to Michelin's withdrawl they find themselves in the position of sole tyre supplier a year earlier than planned. Not their fault.

However, I also agree with 555-04Q2 in that "I dont agree with it from a sporting point of view".

[Donney]

Which is exactly my point, not that Bridgestone are not allowed to do as they please but the sport is again being altered.

[Valve Bounce]

I always supected that in F1, certain teams are more equal than others. :p :

[Knock-on]

If some teams have to pay, and some don't, it is going to create resentment but that's for the teams to resolve with BS.

If however, there is any discrepancy between the specs being supplied, then it will be a huge issue.

[F1boat]

Makes sense. Bridgestone are supporting the teams that supported them for years. While I dont agree with it from a sporting point of view, I would do the same for my customers. In fact, we do that already for our loyal customers. A guy who walks off the street and wants the same deal as a customer of mine who has bought from us every month for the last 20 years is not going to get the same deal.

Well said.

Funny how those who ran on Michelins didn't complain in 05 about the performance being unequal.

Why do people still believe that fairness has anything to do with Formula One? If it did, then Spyker would have the same budget as Mclaren, who would have the same budget as Ferrari who would have the same as Renault etc, etc.

Think of F1 less as a sport in a corinthian way, because there is feck all corinthian about any of the teams.

Think of F1 more as a competition, and that competition starts long before the lights go green.

This is just the latest example, but it won't be the last.

[harsha]

is it ethical???? bridgestone have nothing to lose by giving all the teams decent tyres.....

[555-04Q2]

Funny how those who ran on Michelins didn't complain in 05 about the performance being unequal.

Why do people still believe that fairness has anything to do with Formula One? If it did, then Spyker would have the same budget as Mclaren, who would have the same budget as Ferrari who would have the same as Renault etc, etc.

Think of F1 less as a sport in a corinthian way, because there is feck all corinthian about any of the teams.

Think of F1 more as a competition, and that competition starts long before the lights go green.

This is just the latest example, but it won't be the last.

To expand on this...

there is no longer sport, but business that happens to be a sport. The only true sport left is kicking the ball around with some mates at the park on the weekend.

Sport is a business now thanks to professionalism :down: :(

The decision by Bridgestone is a business one and not a sporting one. Considering that they are in business to sell as many tyres as possible, the way they are handling the current tyre issue is a business decision and not a "am I being fair to the sport" decision.

Once again the FIA has dropped the ball :down: and Knockie has some serious competition ;)

Just out of interest, does anybody know who got their Michelins for free and who paid for the pneus bibendum?

I know Renault weren't paying customers, but Torro Rosso?

Who cared then?

[555-04Q2]

is it ethical???? bridgestone have nothing to lose by giving all the teams decent tyres.....

In F1 terms yes, you are right they have nothing to lose. In real world terms, they risk upsetting one of their biggest clients through the F1 tyre situation.
Remember, they are not contracted to the teams or the FIA until the start of the 2008 season.

[555-04Q2]

Just out of interest, does anybody know who got their Michelins for free and who paid for the pneus bibendum?

I know Renault weren't paying customers, but Torro Rosso?

Who cared then?

:up: That would be interesting to find out :up:

P.S. ArrowsFA1, great thread for this time of year mate :up: :)

[janneppi]

Fair points 555
Then again, Bridgestone has landed in a situation where it's the sole supplier of tyres, it wasn't it's fault, but that's the reality.
If judging only through business contracts, it can do what ever it pleases with those contracts, but from marketing point of view, it doesn't do any good to be seen as an obstacle for fair racing, Big B isn't in F1 to supply tyres, it's there to sell tyres to normal people.
Not everyone sees F1 through the calculator of a finance manager.

[555-04Q2]

but from marketing point of view, it doesn't do any good to be seen as an obstacle for fair racing, Big B isn't in F1 to supply tyres, it's there to sell tyres to normal people.
Not everyone sees F1 through the calculator of a finance manager.

Indeed :up: They need to decide if they are prepared to stay loyal to their regular clients or try and expand their sales potential and marketability and give the other clients equal rubber while risking upsetting their regular clients. Tough situation to be in.

Big B isn't in F1 to supply tyres, it's there to sell tyres to normal people.
Not everyone sees F1 through the calculator of a finance manager.

Normal people, who certainly aren't on a dedicated F1 forum, don't look further into it than seeing Bridgestone tyres on the winning car.

Or, put it another way, I don't find out if the Milkman is good to his family. I just put his product in my coffee.

[samuratt]

This is not a big deal. Some teams have to pay more while others don't. This is a comercial policy that should not affect the championship and/or racing, unless there is going to be differences with the tires supplied to the teams.

As long as they all have the same tire spec, i do not see any problem at all!

[janneppi]

Normal people, who certainly aren't on a dedicated F1 forum, don't look further into it than seeing Bridgestone tyres on the winning car.

Or, put it another way, I don't find out if the Milkman is good to his family. I just put his product in my coffee.


Normal people aren't interested in F1 at all. :p :
I can't obviously talk about anyone else, but here, F1 is relatively big sport news and a lot of backround stuff is talked about in news and lot of it is available in web news sites, even in those not purely motorsport oriented.

[555-04Q2]

As long as they all have the same tire spec, i do not see any problem at all!

Thats the problem. Not all teams are getting the same specifications. My money is on Ferrari getting the class tyres. Watch Kimi and Massa run with the title next year.

[K-Pu]

Well, this nothing more than another example of the business that is F1. I´m not saying nothing new, and this has been said before in this thread:

That´s not fair for the sport but it´s legal. So go on with it, and see haw teams react to this wen the season has started.

[ioan]

This is not a big deal. Some teams have to pay more while others don't. This is a comercial policy that should not affect the championship and/or racing, unless there is going to be differences with the tires supplied to the teams.

As long as they all have the same tire spec, i do not see any problem at all!

:eek: My turn to agree with you! :up: ;)

[ioan]

Thats the problem. Not all teams are getting the same specifications. My money is on Ferrari getting the class tyres. Watch Kimi and Massa run with the title next year.


Who said that???


BS say it will be the same tyre specifications for all!
Quote from http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56009


"Bridgestone in 2007, as the single tyre supplier present in F1, will supply tyres according to the rules laid out by the FIA. The rules state that we will make available identical quantities and specifications of tyres for tests and races, which is our intention.

"We aim to be fair and equitable in our tyre supply in F1. Our contracts with teams are compliant with the rules for 2007.

[ArrowsFA1]

Think of F1 more as a competition, and that competition starts long before the lights go green.
All very true, but Bridgestone are no longer in competition with Michelin, they are in "competition" with themselves as the sole tyre supplier.

By having different contracts with teams, perhaps they are looking at 2007 as a way to reward "their" teams (for using their product when they were in competition with Michelin) before the 2008-10 rules come into force :dozey:

All very true, but Bridgestone are no longer in competition with Michelin, they are in "competition" with themselves as the sole tyre supplier.

By having different contracts with teams, perhaps they are looking at 2007 as a way to reward "their" teams (for using their product when they were in competition with Michelin) before the 2008-10 rules come into force :dozey:

It wasn't Bridgestone I was referring to in this instance, it was the teams who have used their status to get the 'free' deal. Getting the best deal for your team is a result of having a hyper-competitive outlook.

As for Bridgestone rewarding 'their' teams.....so they should. They were the teams who already had a contract, they were the ones who had 'invested' in Bridgestone. Quid Pro Quo and all that.

But even so, I expect Honda, Renault, Mclaren & BMW are getting 'free' tyres too. Probably even SuperAguri.

[Mikeall]

The teams are lucky Bridgestone didn't decide to pull out at the same time...

Each team did it's own deal with Bridgestone. Teams already with Bridgestone who would have signed contracts based on how they would be expected to perfrom and promote the Bridgestone as well as the number of test days they would devote to tyre testing. Toyota, Williams and Ferrari in particular probably have great contracts with Bridgestone. At one point Toyota were saying Bridgestone should give them more tyres over winter because of their contract. On the other hand, there is not that much the ex-Michelin teams can offer Bridgestone so why should they get the same contract as Ferrari when Bridgestone have just had to double their output of F1 tyres and will probably get less promotion.

[ArrowsFA1]

It wasn't Bridgestone I was referring to in this instance, it was the teams who have used their status to get the 'free' deal. Getting the best deal for your team is a result of having a hyper-competitive outlook.
Sorry 'bout that :cool:

[Scuderia ferrari]

Makes sense. Bridgestone are supporting the teams that supported them for years. While I dont agree with it from a sporting point of view, I would do the same for my customers. In fact, we do that already for our loyal customers. A guy who walks off the street and wants the same deal as a customer of mine who has bought from us every month for the last 20 years is not going to get the same deal.

I agree! You expect them not to give back loyalty to those that have helped them and chose their tyres in previace years? Ah, well, too bad for the ex-michelin runners!

My guess was right then- the ones that have brigestones before allready have a slight cushion over the others. I don't really care- as long as ferrari is doing well!

[Nikki Katz]

I expected that Ferrari would have a huge advantage due to the tyres being designed around their car, but even I didn't assume that Bridgestone made different offers to everyone for the same equipment.
I said at the time that with Bridgestone's favouritism and Michelin having no intention of being in a sole tyre series they should really have got a third party for 2007. I guess I still stand by that.

[Dazz9908]

more than ever IMO F1 is looking more rigged than ever!!
So much for the Motorsport chairman of Bridgestone saying They will be impartial and fair to all teams.
Makes you wounder.............

[V12]

This situation has only arisen because of Bernie and Max's one-tyre dream - F1 is an open market for engines, brakes, fuel etc. why not tyres?

[Sleeper]

At the moment I wouldnt say it was a problem, but if BS start supplying better tyres to one team over another then the sh!t is really going to hit the fan.

Remember that McLaren defected to Michelin in 02 because Ferrari were getting preferential treatment over them, and throughout the tyre war there was complaint that Bridgestones didnt work to well on anything other than a Ferrari. No hint of anything like that yet, but I am sceptical that bridgestones is going to want other teams to win the title (they can sell more tyres when they tell people that hey won with Ferrari rather than Renault).

[555-04Q2]

So much for the Motorsport chairman of Bridgestone saying They will be impartial and fair to all teams.

That statement was refering to 2008 onwards, not 2007 if I remember correctly. The one tyre rule was to enforced in 2008 and not 2007 with Michellin running from the F1 scene.

[555-04Q2]

Who said that???


BS say it will be the same tyre specifications for all!
Quote from http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56009

C'mon ioan, we all know Ferrari will get the better tyre for the 2007 season and then all will be on equal rubber in 2008. BS have no obligation to supply the same rubber to all teams for the 2007 season, only 2008 onwards.

[555-04Q2]

As for Bridgestone rewarding 'their' teams.....so they should. They were the teams who already had a contract, they were the ones who had 'invested' in Bridgestone. Quid Pro Quo and all that.

:up:

[555-04Q2]

I said at the time that with Bridgestone's favouritism and Michelin having no intention of being in a sole tyre series they should really have got a third party for 2007. I guess I still stand by that.

Indeed :up: Where is Goodyear :?:

[harsha]

i don't think GoodYear would be a good third party,they don't have the resources needed to compete with the big boys..You'll probably be right 555 although it'd be brilliant if bridgestone proves people wrong and supplies the same tyres to everyone....

[PSfan]

Funny how those who ran on Michelins didn't complain in 05 about the performance being unequal.

Yes, But I do recall not to long ago some Bridgestone teams complaining about their tires not being equal... Except at the time they where complaining that One Bridgestone team (ferrari) was getting better and more advanced tires then they where (Honda)



I expected that Ferrari would have a huge advantage due to the tyres being designed around their car, but even I didn't assume that Bridgestone made different offers to everyone for the same equipment.

I also fully expect that Ferrari will have the most input into how the tires are developed, giving them an advantage. But I expect that some old tire contracts would run over to this season, while other teams would have to agree to whatever terms Bridgestone offers them. I do recall a few years back, Minardi having to run some lower spec tires because they could come to terms with either tire manufacturer...

I also expect that some manufacturers would get better deals because they also use Bridgestone tires on their consumer cars...


I said at the time that with Bridgestone's favouritism and Michelin having no intention of being in a sole tyre series they should really have got a third party for 2007. I guess I still stand by that.

Would be hard to find someone interested in supplying tires for only 1 season... And would a team really be interested in running them? Now, if someone other then Bridgestone had won the contract, then I'm sure we wouldn't have the Bridgestone monopoly in 07

[Knock-on]

C'mon ioan, we all know Ferrari will get the better tyre for the 2007 season and then all will be on equal rubber in 2008. BS have no obligation to supply the same rubber to all teams for the 2007 season, only 2008 onwards.


Not too sure that BS will supply different rubber. That would really be out of order and would make (yet another) a farce of the sport.

However, Ferrari will have an advantage for 07 as all the development up till now has been around Ferrari. For 08 onwards, as someone else has said, what would give BS more prestige;

Bridgestone help Ferrari to be champions or Bridgestone help Honda to be champions?

Ummmmm, tricky one ;)

[555-04Q2]

Not too sure that BS will supply different rubber. That would really be out of order and would make (yet another) a farce of the sport.

However, Ferrari will have an advantage for 07 as all the development up till now has been around Ferrari. For 08 onwards, as someone else has said, what would give BS more prestige;

Bridgestone help Ferrari to be champions or Bridgestone help Honda to be champions?

Ummmmm, tricky one ;)

I dont know Knockie. It has been BS and Ferrari vs the Rest for many years now and they have both supported each other well both on the track and in the press.

BS could have helped Toyota ( another Japanese Team besides Honda ) but they have concentrated their efforts with Ferrari and I see this situation to continue for another season.

[samuratt]

C'mon ioan, we all know Ferrari will get the better tyre for the 2007 season and then all will be on equal rubber in 2008. BS have no obligation to supply the same rubber to all teams for the 2007 season, only 2008 onwards.

Now you are really scaring the hell out of me!!!!! I hope this doesn't happen, and if it does i would not like to know it!!! ;) :D

I don't care if Ferrari gets more tires than the rest, or if they get them for free, but please, make a tire for all the teams, with the same specs and not developed around one team... that would help me to think Bridgestone is a great brand!

[wmcot]

It's kind of a big problem to develop a "generic" tire that will not work better on one team than the rest if you look at it from a tire manufacturer's point of view. The data they need has to come from someone, so I would assume that they would base their design on the input of their most successful partner and longest relationship. They would be pretty silly to use the data from, say Toro Rosso, to design their tire. From a strictly practical standpoint, Bridgestone can't very well just take all the needs and wants from every team and throw them into a blender to come up with a compound that everyone likes!

As far as the costs to the teams, Bridgestone are in the tire business to make money (although they probably lose money on F1 except through advertising.) They can't afford to just throw free tires at all the teams. Each team has negotiated its tire contract in private with Bridgestone. I'm sure BS will give the best deal to those teams who will provide them with the best visibility of their product. Nothing new about that - all businesses run that way to some extent.

[agwiii]

BS could have helped Toyota ( another Japanese Team besides Honda ) but they have concentrated their efforts with Ferrari and I see this situation to continue for another season.

What would be the motivation of BS to hurt Ferrari and help the other teams in 2007?

[spiritone]

The only way one tire rules can be fair is if all teams have access to the tires coming off the truck. If the tires are delivered to the teams base there is no way that anyone can confirm that all teams are getting equal treatment.

One tire rules have been around for awhile and everyone have access to the tires coming off the truck is the only fair way.

Has anyone any info on how the tires will be distributed?

[Mikeall]

The only way one tire rules can be fair is if all teams have access to the tires coming off the truck. If the tires are delivered to the teams base there is no way that anyone can confirm that all teams are getting equal treatment.

One tire rules have been around for awhile and everyone have access to the tires coming off the truck is the only fair way.

Has anyone any info on how the tires will be distributed?

I don't think there is a one tyre rule that comes in 2008. This year there is just simply one tyre supplier who have said they will supply the same tyres to all teams. As far as I am aware there will still be two options of tyres for every race. I don't think Bridgestone will have anything to gain by supplying teams unfairly. They will win either way. Teams can't really bribe them as it will cost a lot to bribe Bridgestone, and most likely they will be found it with all parties exposed and damaged.

Then again if Ferrari win or (insert favourite team) doesn't, blame Bridgestone, it will make you feel a lot better...

[555-04Q2]

What would be the motivation of BS to hurt Ferrari and help the other teams in 2007?

I cant see a motivation at all. Ferrari have been loyal to BS and BS to Ferrari. I'm sure they wont hurt them if they can help it.

[kalasend]

Just curious:
What results do the other BS teams (except Ferrari) have to come to in order to show that BS provided equal tires?

[agwiii]

Hum. Just another source of whining for those that used the French tires in 2006. It's just noise in the system. Wait until March 18.