Lewis was robbed

[daniellouwrens]

I really don't care what the other threads say.

Lewis was robbed.

And I cannot believe what Jeremy Clarkson said about the win,
Lewis has been a vociferous supporter of Britain, yet Jeremy Clarkson
does not support his countryman.

The end of the race was not within the rules and was a way to improve
the ratings for next year.

RED BULL IT GIVES YOU WHINGE.

Cheers

Daniel

[Zico]

Ok.. but do we really need so many threads on the same issue?

[focus206]

And I cannot believe what Jeremy Clarkson said about the win,
Lewis has been a vociferous supporter of Britain, yet Jeremy Clarkson
does not support his countryman.


Gotta love how many Brits mix their nationalism with their whining when some sporting event doesn't go their way. I don't follow F1 nor football, but this year the internet has been flooded by their whining of being "robbed". It's obnoxious, but I can't say I don't find it funny.

[Nitrodaze]

Gotta love how many Brits mix their nationalism with their whining when some sporting event doesn't go their way. I don't follow F1 nor football, but this year the internet has been flooded by their whining of being "robbed". It's obnoxious, but I can't say I don't find it funny.

Son you think it was fair. Can you support your view with an explanation? If you can then head to https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?42172-The-Farcical-2021-Season where this is being discussed properly.

[focus206]

Son you think it was fair. Can you support your view with an explanation? If you can then head to https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?42172-The-Farcical-2021-Season where this is being discussed properly.

I don't know and I don't care if it was fair, because I don't follow F1. I follow touring car and GT racing, and the rules are different.
But I see reactions on the internet in motorsport forums /channels / whatever, and it's mostly Brits whining about robbery. We sometimes have this type of whining in the rally section of the forum, or like the internet was flooded earlier this year for the Euro finals; had to read something of the sort on TCR Europe YouTube as well. All of those having the same common denominator with a good dose of immaturity.

[Nitrodaze]

I don't know and I don't care if it was fair, because I don't follow F1. I follow touring car and GT racing, and the rules are different.
But I see reactions on the internet in motorsport forums /channels / whatever, and it's mostly Brits whining about robbery. We sometimes have this type of whining in the rally section of the forum, or like the internet was flooded earlier this year for the Euro finals; had to read something of the sort on TCR Europe YouTube as well. All of those having the same common denominator with a good dose of immaturity.

I think you are being judgemental. If you look closely, it is F1 fans from all over the world expressing how they feel about the race. The Verstappen fans are jubilant but the none Verstappen fans are wondering why the race finished as it did. Of course, the Hamilton fans are incensed about the decision. So you would find that it is not only brits expressing their view on the outcome of the race.

This forum is all about the detailed analysis of any racing incident such as what happened in Abu Dhabi. It is not a forum where everybody blindly agrees to one point of view. You would find a very varied set of opinions on here. We don't see any particular opinion as whining but simply just someone's opinion. So join in the analysis and the discussions, you are most welcome.

[focus206]

I think you are being judgemental. If you look closely, it is F1 fans from all over the world expressing how they feel about the race. The Verstappen fans are jubilant but the none Verstappen fans are wondering why the race finished as it did. Of course, the Hamilton fans are incensed about the decision. So you would find that it is not only brits expressing their view on the outcome of the race.

This forum is all about the detailed analysis of any racing incident such as what happened in Abu Dhabi. It is not a forum where everybody blindly agrees to one point of view. You would find a very varied set of opinions on here. We don't see any particular opinion as whining but simply just someone's opinion. So join in the analysis and the discussions, you are most welcome.

Of course it's not only Brits and not all Brits, I said "mostly" because that's the impression I have.
What I'm calling out is a behaviour that I'm seeing being repeated again and again, and I find it very unsportsmanlike and immature - and I'm not referring to your topic, that's why I wrote under this topic. I see that you at least argument your points and I won't judge them as valid or invalid, as I don't follow F1. In the touring car and GT car racing series I follow, lapped cars are not allowed to unlap themselves under SC, period.
What I'm criticizing is the blind worshipping and siding with one's driver/team/country that's I've seen happening many times this year, particulary in English cases, while calling everyone else cheats. Look at what I've quoted in my first post here and tell me if that sounds like valid criticism or analysis.

[squibby]

I was trying to liken this to a 'Maradona Hand-of-God' incident, But I can't because Verstappen and Red Bull didn't cheat and if my memory serves me, in that Argentina/England soccer match, we aren't sure who would have won the match anyway even without the incident.

In this F1 race however, we are dead certain that Hamilton was going to win, (horner himself was on radio saying Max needs the racing Gods to win now) and Red Bull and Max didn't cheat in this race. The only similarities I can agree on between the 'Hand-of-God' and what I am now dubbing the 'Hand-of-Masi' incident is that on both occasions literally everybody knows that the official made the wrong call, and that the result will not be overturned.

I feel Mercedes should get Ferrari (Sainz) and Mclaren (Ricciardo) to team up with them to all three teams issue a statement that the race director showed prejudice to their drivers and broke the established procedure during the race to favouritism to a driver higher up in the championship instead of being neutral and impartial to all team and drivers. a) Sainz of team Ferrari was held back behind lapped drivers whereas Mercedes and Red Bull were not, b) Ricciardo of team Mclaren was not permitted to unlap himself whereas 5 drivers ahead of him were permitted to unlap themselves thus advantaging the 5 drivers ahead of him in the race while massively disadvantaging him.

They should declare that they have no confidence in race direction going forward into next season until the matter is addressed.

If I was Mercedes I would also withdraw the protest at the 11th hour and tell every media outlet that will listen about this statement to show that the ending is and was unfair, and against the rules, but for the sake of the sport they believe it should be handled internally.

[joe1888cfc]

Wahahahahahahahaha

[Bagwan]

Is anyone else getting a little tired of the "Will Lewis Quit ?" question ?

I picture him , sitting with his dog , eating veggie burgers , while reading a litany of opinions from every single person who's ever been related to F1 in any obscure way at all , giggling away between every bite .

I know he won't run out of veggie burgers , but he may have his fans start to lose patience pretty soon if he doesn't get his poop in a group .

And , if Merc doesn't really doesn't know what's going on , it's going to make them look really stupid before long , and negate the pile of publicity it has created .

[airshifter]

Is anyone else getting a little tired of the "Will Lewis Quit ?" question ?

I picture him , sitting with his dog , eating veggie burgers , while reading a litany of opinions from every single person who's ever been related to F1 in any obscure way at all , giggling away between every bite .

I know he won't run out of veggie burgers , but he may have his fans start to lose patience pretty soon if he doesn't get his poop in a group .

And , if Merc doesn't really doesn't know what's going on , it's going to make them look really stupid before long , and negate the pile of publicity it has created .

I would gladly pay to stop all the newsfeed articles on the speculation and how Lewis went silent on social media. It's not a life changing thing to me whether he stays or retires. But, much like yourself obviously, I think he's staying. Either that or he is going to hardcore punk Merc by not letting them know for sure.

But I don't know... rumor has it he is getting rid of his cars. Maybe he will pull a Mike Thackwell and get rid of all his material stuff? It's an interesting red while we wait for testing to start, and I managed to find nested in between all the stories about Lewis and Max.

https://www.goodwood.com/grr/race/historic/2020/1/mike-thackwell--the-man-who-walked-away-from-the-highest-level-of-motorsport/#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16401334201913&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.goodwood.com%2Fgrr%2Fra ce%2Fhistoric%2F2020%2F1%2Fmike-thackwell--the-man-who-walked-away-from-the-highest-level-of-motorsport%2F

A quote from the article, which I find very true in todays age.

“I'm not vainglorious. I got out of the sport because of the vanity, the greed, self-obsession, the elitism and the lack of humbleness,” he begins before conceding, “but that’s me, you know, it was my problem because I couldn't deal with it. I wasn't good enough to deal with that sort of stuff.”

[The Black Knight]

I would gladly pay to stop all the newsfeed articles on the speculation and how Lewis went silent on social media. It's not a life changing thing to me whether he stays or retires. But, much like yourself obviously, I think he's staying. Either that or he is going to hardcore punk Merc by not letting them know for sure.

But I don't know... rumor has it he is getting rid of his cars. Maybe he will pull a Mike Thackwell and get rid of all his material stuff? It's an interesting red while we wait for testing to start, and I managed to find nested in between all the stories about Lewis and Max.

https://www.goodwood.com/grr/race/historic/2020/1/mike-thackwell--the-man-who-walked-away-from-the-highest-level-of-motorsport/#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16401334201913&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.goodwood.com%2Fgrr%2Fra ce%2Fhistoric%2F2020%2F1%2Fmike-thackwell--the-man-who-walked-away-from-the-highest-level-of-motorsport%2F

A quote from the article, which I find very true in todays age.

“I'm not vainglorious. I got out of the sport because of the vanity, the greed, self-obsession, the elitism and the lack of humbleness,” he begins before conceding, “but that’s me, you know, it was my problem because I couldn't deal with it. I wasn't good enough to deal with that sort of stuff.”

I don't really care whether Lewis retires or not. Like yourself I am keeping away from F1 news articles right now because it's just all the same speculation- I can't see him leaving Mercedes in the lurch as Rosberg did in 2016. They'd probably have to negotiate Bottas return or they'd be in a very bad situation. He's not that kind of person so I'd imagine he'll return.

I'll start looking at the news articles again once the car launches begin.

[Bagwan]

What do you do when you are being talked about obsessively by the press because you haven't said a word ?
What do you do if you like being talked about ?
What if not talking was pleasing your employers because they knew they were not only not at risk in the situation , but getting the same amount of obsessive speculative headlines as you ?
What if you were to seemingly use your new theoretical spare time to start some other projects , to encourage possible "moving on to life after F1" speculation ?
What if you could use the moment to grab a "feel good" , starting some program for a cause , to push that "moving on" speculation ?
What if you could let the press in on the ruse , for a small fee ?

I get why he hasn't spoken .

But , it's really getting stuck in my craw now .

He's just appeared in new kit , in the same ad with George , so steamingly fresh information has him staying put , and not outright screwing the team that has given him a car to win multiple championships in recent years .

[Zico]

What do you do when you are being talked about obsessively by the press because you haven't said a word ?
What do you do if you like being talked about ?
What if not talking was pleasing your employers because they knew they were not only not at risk in the situation , but getting the same amount of obsessive speculative headlines as you ?
What if you were to seemingly use your new theoretical spare time to start some other projects , to encourage possible "moving on to life after F1" speculation ?
What if you could use the moment to grab a "feel good" , starting some program for a cause , to push that "moving on" speculation ?
What if you could let the press in on the ruse , for a small fee ?

I get why he hasn't spoken .

But , it's really getting stuck in my craw now .

He's just appeared in new kit , in the same ad with George , so steamingly fresh information has him staying put , and not outright screwing the team that has given him a car to win multiple championships in recent years .


I doubt Merc would accept being in the dark as to what he is going to do until the last moment, I think they will know.
Maybe Merc also want rid of Massi and so are happy to go along with Lewis's silent game to try to keep the pressure on?

[airshifter]

Hard to say what caused the media blackout, but it seems to have stirred them into a frenzy for sure. They would print just about anyone's opinion on the matter with a catchy headline.

And really the why doesn't matter to me. If he was going to leave, he would leave. After all the team has supported him properly for years, so it would really be uncool to bounce at the last second. I think part of it is political games hoping to pressure the FIA, but just as much is probably due to the part of the fan base that will hang on every article as if the end of the world might be near.

[F1nKS]

What do you do when you are being talked about obsessively by the press because you haven't said a word ?
What do you do if you like being talked about ?
What if not talking was pleasing your employers because they knew they were not only not at risk in the situation , but getting the same amount of obsessive speculative headlines as you ?
What if you were to seemingly use your new theoretical spare time to start some other projects , to encourage possible "moving on to life after F1" speculation ?
What if you could use the moment to grab a "feel good" , starting some program for a cause , to push that "moving on" speculation ?
What if you could let the press in on the ruse , for a small fee ?

I get why he hasn't spoken .

But , it's really getting stuck in my craw now .

He's just appeared in new kit , in the same ad with George , so steamingly fresh information has him staying put , and not outright screwing the team that has given him a car to win multiple championships in recent years .

Mercedes and Hamilton are just being douchebags about it.

It is interesting that Bottas now is speaking more freely about how the team politics and drama queen nature of Mercedes affected him mentally.

[The Black Knight]

Mercedes and Hamilton are just being douchebags about it.

It is interesting that Bottas now is speaking more freely about how the team politics and drama queen nature of Mercedes affected him mentally.

Is he? I have seen nothing but good words from Bottas regarding Mercedes. Can you supply an example?

[F1nKS]

Is he? I have seen nothing but good words from Bottas regarding Mercedes. Can you supply an example?

Bottas has said


It was during his second season with the team and the 2018 Russian Grand Prix, in particular, when Bottas was asked to give up a win to aid Hamilton's title cause that he suffered the first damaging strike to his psyche.

"There's been also very clear cases that I've been in a support role, and I would say, the first time when that happened, probably 2018, it was really hard to accept," added Bottas. "It was pretty tough.

"That wasn't good for me mentally, the space I was in mentally. As time goes on, you accept it, if that's the situation, that you're behind in the points."

and then there was this quote




“I remember Lewis (Hamilton) and Nico (Rosberg) fighting very hard with each other and it even became a bit political. But when I arrived at Mercedes, I wondered why Nico suddenly stopped. But now I can identify with him. I can say from experience that it’s not easy. If you feel like there is a knife in your throat, then the mind doesn’t always work correctly.

I can say I’ve laughed a lot more since I made the Alfa Romeo announcement. It’s a fact. [My] Well-being has been improved to varying degrees in all aspects. “

[Bagwan]

So , it's a stand-off , then ?

The FIA won't give any verdict until the season starts , and Lewis won't say whether he's racing or not until he hears the verdict .

How stupid is this ?

Or , is it all part of the plan ?
Let's remember that underlying all of this is that all this speculation counts loudly in terms of air time for F1 , itself .

This is not to say that they are colluding with Lewis , keeping F1 in the news , specifically .
But , they do know they could end the drama early with some kind of conclusion , or any response at all .

So , it looks like they are sitting there , watching it all happen , looking stern for the camera whilst fist-bumping in the background .


So , let's not burn just Lewis and Merc for this .


I miss Charlie .

[F1nKS]

So , it's a stand-off , then ?

The FIA won't give any verdict until the season starts , and Lewis won't say whether he's racing or not until he hears the verdict .

How stupid is this ?

Or , is it all part of the plan ?
Let's remember that underlying all of this is that all this speculation counts loudly in terms of air time for F1 , itself .

This is not to say that they are colluding with Lewis , keeping F1 in the news , specifically .
But , they do know they could end the drama early with some kind of conclusion , or any response at all .

So , it looks like they are sitting there , watching it all happen , looking stern for the camera whilst fist-bumping in the background .


So , let's not burn just Lewis and Merc for this .


I miss Charlie .

You could be right. I expect would F1 like the storyline of Hamilton coming back to right a (perceived) wrong from 2021. Build up the mystery of whether he is coming back to keep all the F1 pundits talking during the slow part of the year.

[Zico]

To avoid being seen to be relenting to Merc/Lewis pressure, I bet F1 management keep Masi on... and just give him a more focused role with some workload taken off him by others.

The whole situation feels like they are borderline being held to ransom, so I can't say I blame them..

[Bagwan]

Hey , everybody !
Lewis has said "I'm back ".

It's just non-specific enough to keep the journalists happy , and timed well to keep Max's ice capades in the shadow .

I'm getting to the point where I'm rather sickened by the attempt at manipulation .

I still believe Merc and Lewis only lost because they were keeping it close with Max and the Bulls . Call it karma for hubris .

This kind of monkeying around has me hoping they haven't got the design for this year right at all .
Call it karma for lines of press .

[Firstgear]

With the way the FIA tried to slow down Mercedes and the way the season ended, karma might come in the form of another era of Mercedes domination.

[F1nKS]

With the way the FIA tried to slow down Mercedes and the way the season ended, karma might come in the form of another era of Mercedes domination.

That is not an outlandish expectation. With the word that Aston Martin won't have a car for the first practice, McClaren supposedly struggling. It is not clear how much Red Bull sacrificed for 2022 to get Max the championship (but according to Albon simulation effort moved from looking to 2022 to support 2021). Other teams are not talking or talking down expectations.

I would not be surprised if Mercedes comes out rocking it. They seemed to have thrown all their focus on 2022 early and did minimal development. They are publically talking about the challenges with the E10 fuel - which means they have solved the problem.

[Zico]

With the way the FIA tried to slow down Mercedes and the way the season ended, karma might come in the form of another era of Mercedes domination.

It's a real possibility, the FIA have not increased the five place grid penalty of adding a new engine to the pool. If Mercs fresh new PU performance can still give them that much of a hit on the new fuel recipe they are probably still favs.

What are the expectations of how well Russell will compare in qualy against Hamilton this season?

[airshifter]

To avoid being seen to be relenting to Merc/Lewis pressure, I bet F1 management keep Masi on... and just give him a more focused role with some workload taken off him by others.

The whole situation feels like they are borderline being held to ransom, so I can't say I blame them..

You could be right. And really it would become "Ferrariesque" to just can the guy. The teams wanted sessions to end under green, and he made that happen. I have to wonder what would have happened if he red flagged the race and then restarted with a couple laps to go? My guess is that everyone that didn't want whoever won the race to win would cry foul. And with the discretion given to the race director over the years, they need clarification on the role regardless.

My point being primarily that without further clarification of procedures, no sense in making him the sacrificial lamb.

As for your quoted post.... I almost got the impression that Toto's over the top demands as it happened might have been part of Masi's decision to try to end the race under green. Though Horner was being a PITA, he wasn't being nearly as forceful with it. And I wouldn't be shocked if the FIA feels the same way.



With the way the FIA tried to slow down Mercedes and the way the season ended, karma might come in the form of another era of Mercedes domination.

It could go either way, but the only thing that slowed Merc down all season was their performance and breaches of the regs. That final call will be controversial for some time, but through the season Merc suffered no hurdles from the FIA that weren't applied to other teams.



It's a real possibility, the FIA have not increased the five place grid penalty of adding a new engine to the pool. If Mercs fresh new PU performance can still give them that much of a hit on the new fuel recipe they are probably still favs.

What are the expectations of how well Russell will compare in qualy against Hamilton this season?

I'm still on the fence about the engine penalty regs. It makes no sense to me to have a harsher penalty for first "over the limit use" and then ramp it down. Make it all the same IMHO, and really if they are shooting for cost savings as a goal, make it a harsher on track penalty.



Hey , everybody !
Lewis has said "I'm back ".

It's just non-specific enough to keep the journalists happy , and timed well to keep Max's ice capades in the shadow .

I'm getting to the point where I'm rather sickened by the attempt at manipulation .

I still believe Merc and Lewis only lost because they were keeping it close with Max and the Bulls . Call it karma for hubris .

This kind of monkeying around has me hoping they haven't got the design for this year right at all .
Call it karma for lines of press .

While I don't subscribe to your sandbagging theory, in all fairness I have to give Lewis and Merc a break on this one. It's the press that's been making it what it is, not any certain person related to the team. While the press and some might perceive it as game playing to apply pressure, they could just be trying to stay out of the fray until a decision is made. I'm not sure that I've seen any direct quotes that Lewis wanted Masi sacked.... Toto seems to have run with that. But at the same point all teams exert some influence on the FIA when they can, it's just not always a media circus.

If Merc/Toto/Lewis have a fit if Masi isn't sacked.... well then hit the road as far as I'm concerned. I've lived though enough of the Ferrari threats of leaving the sport to not care if any one team or their drivers decide the walk.

[Sulland]

IMO to listen to the calls from team bosses to Massi, is embarrasing.
Team bosses sounds like 5 year olds in the sand box talking to the kindergarten teacher.

"He pushed me"
"No he pushed me first, and he pushed harder. Me knee hurts, make him go away!"

Pls act like a grown up this year.

[airshifter]

IMO to listen to the calls from team bosses to Massi, is embarrasing.
Team bosses sounds like 5 year olds in the sand box talking to the kindergarten teacher.

"He pushed me"
"No he pushed me first, and he pushed harder. Me knee hurts, make him go away!"

Pls act like a grown up this year.

I couldn't agree more. One of the major things they need to change is no direct communications with the race director during the race. And even if it's someone assisting, only when a safety issue is unresolved. Both of them did their best to influence decisions through the year, and acted like the race director reports to the team or something.

[Bagwan]

It has now been decided that direct lobbying of the race director is no longer allowed .
However , I do want to see any entrant allowed to plead their case to the FIA in some way , as they may have a unique perspective to add .
Strategies for different teams are based on different strengths and weaknesses for each car and each driver , and are unknown to the stewards until they play out .

To insulate the race director from direct contact should be OK , but there still needs to be a way to say "Hey , that's not fair !" .