Kimi's jaw's dropped.. he isnt happy thesedays [Archive]

rohanweb

16th May 2007, 00:00

Gannex

16th May 2007, 00:16

do you think Kimi is really happy & enjoying his driving life at Ferrari?
I think, rohanweb, that the answer to your question is very obvious: Kimi is not at all happy right now, and the cause of his misery can be summed up in two words: Felipe Massa. Until he starts solidly outperforming Massa, Kimi will remain unhappy. Likewise Fernando Alonso with respect to Cool-Hand Lew. No top driver is ever happy to be matched, never mind outclassed, by his team-mate. It's as simple as that.

jjanicke

16th May 2007, 03:27

since Kimi moved to ferrari, he isnt seems the happiest chap thesedays,
is it because Massa is keep beating him by setting fastest laps & finishing ahead of him / is it just pace of the McLaren duo,

it seems Kimi's championship dreams are over on the long run, because there few other drivers are really well applying to be world champions in a strong way..

do you think Kimi is really happy & enjoying his driving life at Ferrari?
i dont think so.. he will be forgotten like another montoya when he is going to be dropped by Ferrari soon !

rohanweb, and I quote "Massa is keep beating him by setting fastest laps".

What stats are you looking at? All true stats would say that they are actually tied in terms of finishing in front, with Massa taking 3-1 in faster laps (although one of those 3 was by only .029 when Todt himself claimed Kimi was loosing about .1s/lap due to his engine, so let's call it 2-1).

Massa is no doubt a fast driver, even beating MS on occasion. Massa has yet to win a race where he hasn't started from pole and maintained the lead other than pits, yet Kimi has many times.

So claiming Kimi is on his way out of Ferrari, after only running 4 races (compared to Massa's 22, not including the year of Ferrari testing in 2003) is pure trolling.

Let's revisit this thread in about 5 races and see how things have really shaped up. Unfortunately I think you will be greatly disappointed.

Hawkmoon

16th May 2007, 03:45

Ofcourse Kimi is not happy. He's down 3-1 in qualifying and trails Massa by 5 points in the championship. He's also had a couple of mechanical troubles which is one of the reasons he apparently left McLaren.

But in no way, shape or form is Kimi's Ferrari drive in danger. I believe he's still the quickest guy on the grid and if I had to bet on 1 driver winning from the middle of the pack it would be the Finn.

jjanicke's right. Massa hasn't proven that he can win a race from anything other than the front. In fact, I'd say the evidence points to the exact opposite. When he's under pressure he still makes mistakes. That's not to say he won't develop into a driver who can win from further back. The lad's still developing as a driver.

Kimi's problem is qualifying. He needs to put the thing on the front row and get a good start. Something he has failed to do 3 out of 4 races this year. The one race he did that, he won with ease.

I still think the end of this championship will see Kimi and Alonso battling for the title with Massa third and Hamilton fourth.

Valve Bounce

16th May 2007, 05:00

Ian McC

16th May 2007, 06:59

i dont think so.. he will be forgotten like another montoya when he is going to be dropped by Ferrari soon !

Oh dear......... :rolleyes:

Firstly you only can guess if Kimi is not happy, it is safe to say he never gives anything away ;) :D

For whatever reason Kimi hasn't be able to get the best out of the Ferrari yet and certainly is getting upstaged by his team mate but that last line of your post really is rubbish.

pino

16th May 2007, 07:41

Ranger

16th May 2007, 08:11

since Kimi moved to ferrari, he isnt seems the happiest chap thesedays

Did he ever strike you as a "happy chap" at McLaren?

Valve Bounce

16th May 2007, 08:29

Did he ever strike you as a "happy chap" at McLaren?
ton of laughs, man; ton of laughs :p :

ioan

16th May 2007, 09:01

I'll just point out hat every single driver that won a race this year was the one leading after the first turn.

None of them won from end of the grid or from mid pack.

Rant over.

ioan

16th May 2007, 09:04

Massa keep beating him ? What are you talking about ? let me remind you that before Spain, Kimi was ahead of Felipe, a mechanic problem forced him out...

You should stop following only Jarno's races and results pino!

Races affected by capital mechanical failures aside (Oz and Spain) it's 2-1 in qualifying for Felipe in 1-1 in the races (though it's also 1-0 in the wins).

jas123f1

16th May 2007, 09:56

Yes, I’m sure Kimi is disappointed and I believe that he is going to change his driving from now, he will take a bit more risks in the future. His mentality is not suitable to be a second place and some kind of help to anyone, I think it’s out of question.

I think also that the close friendship between "seven times world champion Schumacher" who has dominated the team so many years and his former “help driver” Massa is something which feels not quite ok for Kimi, IF Schumacher are keeping the other as his favourite in the team (as it looks like) and if he same time is involved in the teams decisions and tactic. That’s not good for Kimi and therefore not either to Ferrari. There was all ready before the season start some voices warning about how the climate in the team will effected if Schumacher will involved too much.

If Kimi gets a fear chance I’m sure he will take it, but without a full support from the whole team it’s not possible …

But, but .. we will see what happens in the future, maybe it will ok .. or maybe not ..??

pino

16th May 2007, 10:05

You should stop following only Jarno's races and results pino!

Races affected by capital mechanical failures aside (Oz and Spain) it's 2-1 in qualifying for Felipe in 1-1 in the races (though it's also 1-0 in the wins).

Don't worry ioan I do follow all drivers not only Jarno, anyway 2-1 in qual and 1-0 in wins, isn't exactly "keep beating him" unless my english is worst than I think...

leopard

16th May 2007, 10:44

Ahem...
I think it all depends on how Kimi positions himself in Ferrari.
If Schumi was involved drive a bargain about Kimi will replace his seat, Schumi's presence shouldn't be considered as interfering the team, but more solidity of the team.

Kimi might not accustomed with such tradition because of his long position as the first man to beat Schumi when he was at McLaren. Kimi is now in an unfavorable environment in which on the other hand he is expected to explore the maximum result driving the red car.

He should anyhow try to forget all memories in the past and start everything fresh in Ferrari, this is a way to overcome all his non technical problem, Schumi is friend now.

The problem fixed once the ice melted.

Storm

16th May 2007, 13:14

Hilarious thread....really!

Flat.tyres

16th May 2007, 13:25

I think that kimi found it a bit too rigid and regimented at McLaren. at ferrari, I can only guess but it seems more of a "enthusiastic" culture rather than a formal one a bit like the itallian people themselves.

when kimi left, he enjoyed this euthoric sort of passion but personally, i believe he needs something a little more structured to discipline his career.

schumacher (and massa learned this as well) can galvanise and gell a team around them where kimi needs to have one modelled as a unit where he can slot in. theres a possibility that hes struggleing a bit with what appeared the ideal team culture. the grass is always greener?

Valve Bounce

16th May 2007, 14:03

The secret in Italy is for Kimi to explain to the guy behind the counter how to make the coffee the way he likes, and to understand that he has to drink it at the bar, or pay extra to sit down.

jas123f1

16th May 2007, 14:44

I don't agree with thoughts that Kimi must change his personality and be something he doesn’t be. Whole his driving depends on how he is and to try to change him change also his driving. One of Kimis qualities is that he is an honest guy but that means also that he needs to work in an honest environment and if he feels that something in the team is against him “behind his back”, he doesn’t like it at all. Imo the only way Ferrari can work with him and get a good result is that everything is open and transparent and people are saying what they mean. I don’t like when Schumacher is involved in the team and same time saying that he has his thoughts about Kimi but doesn’t like to speak about him because people misunderstand everything??? It’s not ok that old champions are involved in their old teams if they can’t be absolutely neutral between drivers and obviously Schumacher can’t, however he is giving an impress in that direction..

Valve Bounce

17th May 2007, 14:40

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39271

akv89

17th May 2007, 18:29

A lot of people really need to stop underestimating Kimi and Alonso. Only last year they were part of the fastest trio on the grid and all of a sudden there are claims that these two can't handle driving against fast teammates. Even the people closest to these guys don't completely understand what's going on in their heads and to assume that we know how they are feeling is very pretentious. It is true that Lewis Hamilton is an unbelievable talent and Massa is many many times better than he was before. But Alonso and Raikkonen have proven beyond doubt that they have been among the best for some time now and they have no reason to stop just yet.

ClarkFan

17th May 2007, 19:22

ton of laughs, man; ton of laughs :p :

By Scandinavian standards, he is like the young Jerry Lewis. These are countries that spawned immigrants to the US who moved to places like the Dakota because they thought living in dirt houses, having your crops eaten by locusts and clearing the front door by shoveling the snow into your house were all laugh riots.

At least that's the explanation in my family for what my great-grandparents did! ;)

ClarkFan

Valve Bounce

18th May 2007, 00:59

By Scandinavian standards, he is like the young Jerry Lewis. These are countries that spawned immigrants to the US who moved to places like the Dakota because they thought living in dirt houses, having your crops eaten by locusts and clearing the front door by shoveling the snow into your house were all laugh riots.

At least that's the explanation in my family for what my great-grandparents did! ;)

ClarkFan

You shovel snow into your house? Why? :confused:

ClarkFan

18th May 2007, 03:39

You shovel snow into your house? Why? :confused:

Because in the blizzards in the Dakota Territory, the snow would drift so high from the wind that it would completely block the door and all the windows. The only way to get out of the sod huts (like the one where my grandfather was born) was to first shovel the snow into the house to clear a path, then shovel it out.

And my great-grandparents moved to that place for a better life! :eek:

ClarkFan

leopard

18th May 2007, 09:07

I don't agree with thoughts that Kimi must change his personality and be something he doesn’t be.
It doesn't mean he has to change personality, It isn't easy pretending to be someone else. We may need usually to get adapted to the culture or environment where we are now living at.

I don’t like when Schumacher is involved in the team and same time saying that he has his thoughts about Kimi but doesn’t like to speak about him because people misunderstand everything??? It’s not ok that old champions are involved in their old teams if they can’t be absolutely neutral between drivers and obviously Schumacher can’t, however he is giving an impress in that direction..

A fact we can't deny why is Schumi still there, is that Schumi unbeatably won the title at Ferrari and presumably had a hand when Ferrari choose Kimi as his replacement. I think Schumi has much and less responsibility about performance of driver he has pointed out. I didn't see reason why would we treat person we have pointed out badly.

However I hope Kimi can show us more race like he has performed in the opening race of OZ, and the case of leaving the track when the race is underway, only an incident and doesn't have any other suffering motive for doing so.

ArrowsFA1

18th May 2007, 09:43

...presumably had a hand when Ferrari choose Kimi as his replacement.
Not according to Nigel Roebuck who has suggested that it was Montezemolo who wanted to sign Kimi for 2007 and personally negotiated with the Finn & his management. Todt wanted to keep MS & Massa. It seems there was a bit of a power-struggle within Ferrari. Luca won. MS retired. Kimi signed. Roebuck says this is not proven fact, but a generally held view.

True or not Kimi is now at Ferrari, and things aren't going as well as Australia suggested they might. There could be any number of reasons for this:
- it does take time for a new driver to settle fully into a new team & car
- Massa has the advantage of his time spent with the team, racing & testing
- Kimi might be Luca's man but Jean still runs the team...
- there is no #1 & #2 for the moment creating an internal battle
- Kimi may appear less dedicated and so not get the full support of his team who are used to working with someone who lived and breathed Ferrari and winning, and who appears in the garage from time to time as a reminder of those days!

Kimi needs to turn things round, and make his own mark at Ferrari. Beating Felipe to a few pole positions, and winning races is what he needs.

jas123f1

18th May 2007, 10:08

It doesn't mean he has to change personality, It isn't easy pretending to be someone else. We may need usually to get adapted to the culture or environment where we are now living at.

A fact we can't deny why is Schumi still there, is that Schumi unbeatably won the title at Ferrari and presumably had a hand when Ferrari choose Kimi as his replacement. I think Schumi has much and less responsibility about performance of driver he has pointed out. I didn't see reason why would we treat person we have pointed out badly.

I don't say Schumi can’t be involved in the Ferrari team also today - what i pointed out was that he can't be involved IF he can't be completely neutral in regarding to drivers and it looks that he has difficult to do it. To be honest – Massa helped Schumacher to be WDC and there is a “dept” to pay. It’s not good for Ferrari if this “old system” shall continue also after that Schumacher retired.

555-04Q2

18th May 2007, 12:02

- it does take time for a new driver to settle fully into a new team & car.

I think a certain Lewis Hamilton is proving that theory wrong at the moment. Straight into an F1 car and flying ahead of the "best car on the grid Ferrari's" :up:

leopard

18th May 2007, 12:05

Not according to Nigel Roebuck who has suggested that it was Montezemolo who wanted to sign Kimi for 2007 and personally negotiated with the Finn & his management. Todt wanted to keep MS & Massa. It seems there was a bit of a power-struggle within Ferrari. Luca won. MS retired. Kimi signed. Roebuck says this is not proven fact, but a generally held view.

True or not Kimi is now at Ferrari, and things aren't going as well as Australia suggested they might. There could be any number of reasons for this:
- it does take time for a new driver to settle fully into a new team & car
- Massa has the advantage of his time spent with the team, racing & testing
- Kimi might be Luca's man but Jean still runs the team...
- there is no #1 & #2 for the moment creating an internal battle
- Kimi may appear less dedicated and so not get the full support of his team who are used to working with someone who lived and breathed Ferrari and winning, and who appears in the garage from time to time as a reminder of those days!

Kimi needs to turn things round, and make his own mark at Ferrari. Beating Felipe to a few pole positions, and winning races is what he needs.

Thought we have talked this or having found it elsewhere conceded that Schumi was one behind the scene of Kimi at Ferrari now.
Anyway, thanks Arrows you showed and enrich me with another scenario.

leopard

18th May 2007, 12:10

To be honest – Massa helped Schumacher to be WDC and there is a “dept” to pay. How much is Schumi in debt? ;)

ArrowsFA1

18th May 2007, 12:41

I think a certain Lewis Hamilton is proving that theory wrong at the moment.
True, although I do think each circumstance is different.

Hamilton has been a part of McLaren for around 10yrs so he knows the team & the personnel. Aside from driving the car, that's an advantage that Kimi doesn't benefit from at all.

Also there's the level of expectation. Kimi came to Ferrari as (arguably) the quickest driver in F1 who just needed a reliable car to win the WDC at a stroll. The expectations on Lewis were not as high.

Finally Kimi joined a team that had been used to winning, regularly. Lewis joined a team looking to make a fresh start and win again after a long time without a title.

Valve Bounce

18th May 2007, 14:49

Also Lewis speaks the same language as everyone in the team, of which he has been (as Arrows pointed out) for yonks.

Kimi has joined an Italian team and there is a vast difference between him and the team in language, personalities, outlook, ............ You name it, they are poles apart - in almost everything.

Italians are very warm outgoing people, they like to please (from my recent experience there) and they like to be appreciated too. Kimi will get there; it takes a little time for them to understand each other, but the team knows a great driver when they see one, who can win them championships - and that will make them happy. Right now, Massa winning last weekend made everyone there very happy.

I know my assessment sounds simplistic, but that's the way I see it.

pino

18th May 2007, 23:04

- Kimi might be Luca's man but Jean still runs the team..

Kimi is both Luca's man and Jean's man, and...still Luca has the last word at Ferrari ;)

Valve Bounce

19th May 2007, 01:24

pino, do you agree with my assessment of the Italian team's guys?

jens

19th May 2007, 21:58

A lot of people really need to stop underestimating Kimi and Alonso. Only last year they were part of the fastest trio on the grid and all of a sudden there are claims that these two can't handle driving against fast teammates.

I, on the contrary, have been quite bored of those myths like Alonso and Räikkönen are overwhelmingly the best drivers and other classify as "mediocre" or even "useless". Therefore I'm happy that at last this season the truth is gradually revealing that there are clearly more top drivers, who may well match these two. I think that not FA and KR are underestimated, but other drivers have been underestimated.

pino

19th May 2007, 23:36

pino, do you agree with my assessment of the Italian team's guys?

Valve, language or nationality isn't a problem for a Team like Ferrari, people from different countries work there. For what I know everyone is happy to have Kim in the Team, and Kimi is happy to drive for Ferrari. Without that electrical problem, this thread wouldn't exsist...

raphael123

20th May 2007, 02:22

I think people are looking too much in this whole 'Lewis has been in the team for 10yrs'.

From what I gather, it was mainly just sponsoring him, giving him the opportunities, opening doors etc. I don't think he actually knew the McLaren team staff inside out like a race driver did he? I'd guess the first time he met them all properly was at his first test session!! Or do you guys know something I don't know, and he has been hanging out with the team on race weekends, and working for them since he was 10?

raikk

21st May 2007, 09:06

Did he ever strike you as a "happy chap" at McLaren?

yes :p :

ST205GT4

21st May 2007, 09:30

I, on the contrary, have been quite bored of those myths like Alonso and Räikkönen are overwhelmingly the best drivers and other classify as "mediocre" or even "useless". Therefore I'm happy that at last this season the truth is gradually revealing that there are clearly more top drivers, who may well match these two. I think that not FA and KR are underestimated, but other drivers have been underestimated.

Totally agree. I think there are a lot more quick drivers in the field than are given credit. The variation in equipment, budget etc for each of the teams makes it basically impossible to judge the true worth of drivers who never get a chance to drive one of the top teams cars.

555-04Q2

21st May 2007, 14:20

I, on the contrary, have been quite bored of those myths like Alonso and Räikkönen are overwhelmingly the best drivers and other classify as "mediocre" or even "useless". Therefore I'm happy that at last this season the truth is gradually revealing that there are clearly more top drivers, who may well match these two. I think that not FA and KR are underestimated, but other drivers have been underestimated.

You are not alone, although I still think Alonso is the most complete driver in F1 at the moment.

ShiftingGears

21st May 2007, 14:26

This season is gonna be a good one, the driver pairings in the top two teams are sensational in my opinion, and I believe the title could go to any of the four drivers.

aryan

21st May 2007, 17:43

This season is gonna be a good one, the driver pairings in the top two teams are sensational in my opinion, and I believe the title could go to any of the four drivers.

Exactly my thoughts. When was the last time we had 4 title contenders? Not since mid 90s I believe...

raphael123

22nd May 2007, 23:42

Exactly my thoughts. When was the last time we had 4 title contenders? Not since mid 90s I believe...

Even further back no? in 94 and 95 it was between Hill and Schumacher. 93 and 92 were dominated by Prost and Mansell. It may have been 86 where we had a true 4 way title horse. Saying that, it's early days, only 4 races into the season - lets not get carried away.

You'd have to say out of the 4 most likely to drop out of the title race it would be Hamilton - though he could surprise us - as he has already.