2021 - Race 20 Qatar

[F1nKS]

The end of the triple header. Waiting to hear who the pundits think has the advantage - they are wrong each week.

After this weekend domination by Mercedes, it is hard to see them not be the favorites.

Crazy watching Norris drop off the cliff for the 2nd half of the season. After the Russian gut-punch, he has been nowhere.

Ferrari has seized control of 3rd place and is not looking back as Mclaren fades in the background.

Renault and Alpha Tauri are in a dog fight for 5th and 6th.

[gm99]

Renault and Alpha Tauri are in a dog fight for 5th and 6th.

Just imagine where Alpha Tauri would be if they had a proper second driver instead of that destruction derby pilot.

[Nitrodaze]

This race has suddenly become so crucial for both Mercedes and Redbull. A Verstappen win here would put enormous pressure on Hamilton who would have only two races to recover. A Hamilton win would close up the gap considerably and make Jeddah an even more crucial race for both teams; especially Redbull. A DNF for either party would be disastrous for either party, hence both would require a clean race.

It would still be advantageous for Verstappen to take out Hamilton and create a DNF for both parties. As it must be very painful and difficult to watch his points advantage disappear slowly before his eyes. We can expect to see more dodgy moves from Verstappen and dodgy decisions from the steward's office as they go off to buy new Ferrari's.

[Nitrodaze]

Check out this simulation of the Qatar track (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDXST-gQke8)

The long straight felt like an eternity. You can see why this track would favour Mercedes greatly.

[airshifter]

Through FP2 it looks like track limits might be hard to enforce on this track. Quite a few drivers going off and the dust off the line makes things tricky.

The lack of elevation change makes the track rather lifeless in my opinion.

It also looks like a track that has the potential to be fairly brutal on tires. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[Tazio]

Zow Stan! Super lap by "da Boss" Race should be a real cracker, or a boring procession :confused:
Also the battle between Alfa Tauri, and Alpine is really heating up! :dork:

[denkimi]

and perez has once again screwed it up.

why is that man even in a redbull?

[airshifter]

Verstappen, Sainz, and Bottas summoned over yellow flag violations in the Gasly incident. Apparently there are some conflicting incidents of dash warnings, flags, and the lights for all of them. Some drivers were given radio calls that conflicted as well, as it seems the decision on single, double, and slow moving vehicle signals bounced around some. Some slowed on seeing Gasly with no warnings that I know of, others did not.

Grid penalties likely inbound, though with the conflicting signals possibly not or lesser than usual.




I'm not sure if the yellow incident would have changed anyone in the order or not, but great lap by Lewis who looked to have the poll either way. It looks like a good track to drive, but the lack of features also make it look like it might as well be in a giant parking lot.

[F1nKS]

I looked at Bottas and Verstappen feeds, they didn't slow down at all, but I did not see them have any yellow flags or have any radio calls of yellow flags.

[Nitrodaze]

It is a very abrasive track and very unkind to tyres. Off the racing line is likely to be sandy and slippery as consequence.

[airshifter]

I looked at Bottas and Verstappen feeds, they didn't slow down at all, but I did not see them have any yellow flags or have any radio calls of yellow flags.

I found this after looking around some. Some seriously mixed signals in some cases. From my understanding they went yellow, double yellow, slow moving car, track clear... not all in that order and possibly showing one then the other. I'm not sure how the on dash signals are controlled but from some of the radio calls it seems it all happened fairly quick and in some situations engineers made a radio call of one condition then the other in seconds.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21CYh2Kny-A

[Fortitude]

FORMULA 1 OOREDOO QATAR GRAND PRIX 2021 - PRACTICE 1
19 21 Nov 2021 Losail International Circuit, Lusail

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1105/qatar/practice-1.html


FORMULA 1 OOREDOO QATAR GRAND PRIX 2021 - PRACTICE 2
19 21 Nov 2021 Losail International Circuit, Lusail

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1105/qatar/practice-2.html


FORMULA 1 OOREDOO QATAR GRAND PRIX 2021 - PRACTICE 3
19 21 Nov 2021 Losail International Circuit, Lusail

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1105/qatar/practice-3.html


FORMULA 1 OOREDOO QATAR GRAND PRIX 2021 - QUALIFYING
19 21 Nov 2021 Losail International Circuit, Lusail

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1105/qatar/qualifying.html


STRATEGY GUIDE: What are the possible race strategies for the Qatar Grand Prix?
Special contributor
Chris Medland
21 November 2021

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.strategy-guide-what-are-the-possible-race-strategies-for-the-qatar-grand.3EpBr30GfDriRdcEkeYFj5.html

[F1nKS]

Verstappen received a 5 place drop and Bottas received a 3 spot drop. FIA position was even though there were not the usual alerts, the drivers are responsible for driving unaided. At least in this case, the stewards have been consistent on this throughout the season.

I was surprised none of them slowed down with Gasly was on the side of the road - you would have to assume as a driver there would be a yellow flag.

This does another thing - it separates Max from Lewis so there won't be any "fireworks" and takes championship 1 step further down the road, unless Max gets taken out/or wrecks out in the middle of the pack.

[Bagwan]

I bet that flag person drives a Merc .

Or , he or she will soon .












Just kidding .

[denkimi]

Verstappen received a 5 place drop and Bottas received a 3 spot drop. FIA position was even though there were not the usual alerts, the drivers are responsible for driving unaided. At least in this case, the stewards have been consistent on this throughout the season.

I was surprised none of them slowed down with Gasly was on the side of the road - you would have to assume as a driver there would be a yellow flag.

This does another thing - it separates Max from Lewis so there won't be any "fireworks" and takes championship 1 step further down the road, unless Max gets taken out/or wrecks out in the middle of the pack.
It doesn't makes sense to slow down after you have passed the hazard.

I find it weird to penalyse for ignoring a flag that wasn't actually there.

[Nitrodaze]

Verstappen received a 5 place drop and Bottas received a 3 spot drop. FIA position was even though there were not the usual alerts, the drivers are responsible for driving unaided. At least in this case, the stewards have been consistent on this throughout the season.

I was surprised none of them slowed down with Gasly was on the side of the road - you would have to assume as a driver there would be a yellow flag.

This does another thing - it separates Max from Lewis so there won't be any "fireworks" and takes championship 1 step further down the road, unless Max gets taken out/or wrecks out in the middle of the pack.

What a turn of events? Very late penalty, with 90 minutes to go for the race start. This really puts a dent in Verstappen's title bid and deprives us of a Hamilton vs Vertsppen fight at the start.

Things may have gone their way at Sao Paolo, it seems to be going against them here in Doha.

As always, we should ask if the stewards were wrong? Did Verstappen see the double yellow and fail to respond to them by slowing down? Were there malfunctions in the yellow flag notification systems on track and in the car?

There was good evidence that Verstappen did not slow during the double yellow flag section. It is unfortunate that the double yellow was at the very last few yards from the end of the lap.
However, the system seemed to have failed to convey the yellow flag information appropriately. With Bottas there seemed to be no information at all of a yellow flag situation. With Verstappen, the notification screen seemed to be flashing a white flag as opposed to a yellow flag which was clearly the case for Alonso.

With this evidence, it is easy to think that the stewards have been hard on both drivers. I think they should have got the benefit of the doubt as this is a new track where everything may not function correctly. It is possible the outcry for the Brazil decision has invited a heavy-handedness for this situation. This is understandable but it could be unfairly punitive to Redbull and Verstappen if system malfunction may be proven to be the root cause for misinformation. That said, Mclaren was on the case by warning their driver quite early that a yellow flag situation exist and where. Both Mercedes and Redbull did not inform their drivers of the situation but relied on the notification system.

With that in mind, the steward has not acted in a heavy-handed way. But have acted properly in accordance with the regulations. it is tough for Redbnull, but that is the way it is.

[truefan72]

Useless Bottas
Tbh i would replace bottas with Russell in the last 2 races. He had one job to do which was to keep max behind him and he couldn’t even do that right from the start. Pathetic


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gm99]

The reason they only gave Bottas a three place penalty is that he looses five positions at the start anyway. That guy is totally useless when he's down the grid.

[denkimi]

So the mercedes is half a second faster than the Redbull, and at least 2 seconds a lap faster than everybody else.

Mercedes is lucky that perez sucks just as much as bottas.

[Nitrodaze]

Mercedes are thinking on their feet today.

[Nitrodaze]

Great recovery from Verstappen and Perez. The Mercedes engine in the Mclaren is paying dividends as Ferrari struggle with both cars

[Zico]

With that in mind, the steward has not acted in a heavy-handed way. But have acted properly in accordance with the regulations. it is tough for Redbnull, but that is the way it is.

At least it shows they are not 'on the take' as you put it... unless they are open to the highest bidder on a race by race basis. :D




Anyone know why Bottas got a 3 place and Max a 5 place penalty?

[truefan72]

Congrats to Alonso. Well deserved DotD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gm99]

Well done by Alonso to score his first podium since 2014.
And damage limitation for Red Bull and Verstappen. I don't think they could have done better even without the grid penalty.

[denkimi]

I feel that any 3, 5 or even 10 place penalty for a redbull or mercedes car has almost no. They are just so much faster that they still on the podium.

[Bagwan]

At least it shows they are not 'on the take' as you put it... unless they are open to the highest bidder on a race by race basis. :D




Anyone know why Bottas got a 3 place and Max a 5 place penalty?

I think I read that it is the difference between passing a single waved yellow and a double waved yellow .


I see Horner has been called in for mouthing off .
He'll bring a suitcase of cash with him if he's wise .

[Bagwan]

This is great , isn't it ?
So great !

It's so much better than domination by a single team .

Who knows who's going to win ?
That's what I like about it .

This is so great !

[Tazio]

Congrat's to The Boss, Max, and Mc'Zo, the best three pilots in the field...........arguably! :rolleyes: :dork:

[Fortitude]

FORMULA 1 OOREDOO QATAR GRAND PRIX 2021 - RACE RESULT
19 21 Nov 2021 Losail International Circuit, Lusail

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1105/qatar/race-result.html


DRIVER OF THE DAY: Alonso's podium return gets your vote in Qatar
21 November 2021

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.driver-of-the-day-alonsos-podium-return-gets-your-vote-in-qatar.1ylBWSPGm0Cu50PXyev2B1.html


Qatar Grand Prix Facts & Stats: Seven years on, Alonso sets new podium record
Virtual Statman
Sean Kelly
21 November 2021

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.qatar-grand-prix-facts-and-stats-seven-years-on-alonso-sets-new-podium.18HkiYJ85c8EtC6r5mUBb0.html


RACE HIGHLIGHTS: Missed the Qatar Grand Prix? Catch all the action right here
21 November 2021

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.race-highlights-missed-the-qatar-grand-prix-catch-all-the-action-right-here.1p1Ui1vqxEas1I0pwYl9Nx.html


Wolff: Verstappen's bonus point 'a bit annoying'
Toto Wolff was annoyed to see Max Verstappen clinch the fastest lap point at the end of the Qatar Grand Prix.

https://racingnews365.com/wolff-verstappens-bonus-point-a-bit-annoying


Verstappen: ‘I never get presents’ from FIA stewards
Date published: November 21 2021 - Jamie Woodhouse

Max Verstappen knew that the stewards would not be on his side in Qatar, so focused on his driving to overcome that obstacle.

Initially set to start P2, the Red Bull driver would be hit with a five-place grid penalty for failing to respect double-waved yellows in qualifying, a decision which infuriated Red Bull and earned team boss Christian Horner a date with the stewards for his comments.

For Verstappen, the penalty came as no surprise, hinting at bias against him.

“Well no surprises there,” he told Sky F1 when asked about that five-place penalty.

“I mean I knew already last night that I never get presents from them, so it’s okay.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-verstappen-suggests-steward-bias/


'A little bit too slow' Verstappen pledges to stay focussed
Andrew Lewin21/11/2021 at 17:25

Max Verstappen was left with no answer to Lewis Hamilton's dominant form in Sunday's Qatar Grand Prix, as victory for the Mercedes driver further slashed the lead that Verstappen had pulled out in the drivers championship.

The gap between the pair is now down to eight points with two races to go in the 2021 championship, with Hamilton having picked up momentum in recent Grands Prix leaving Red Bull looking for some way to respond.

https://f1i.com/news/425887-a-little-bit-too-slow-verstappen-pledges-to-stay-focussed.html

[Nitrodaze]

This is great , isn't it ?
So great !

It's so much better than domination by a single team .

Who knows who's going to win ?
That's what I like about it .

This is so great !

I can see Mercedes and Hamilton's triumph irks you so. You will get over it :-)

[Nitrodaze]

At least it shows they are not 'on the take' as you put it... unless they are open to the highest bidder on a race by race basis. :D




Anyone know why Bottas got a 3 place and Max a 5 place penalty?

The jury is still out on this one.

[Bagwan]

I can see Mercedes and Hamilton's triumph irks you so. You will get over it :-)

You wanna know who's going to win , Dazey ?

[F1nKS]

What a turn of events? Very late penalty, with 90 minutes to go for the race start.

This wasn't a "late penalty". Mercedes and Red Bull both knew it was coming last night. All the pundits called it correctly - Bottas would get a 3 place drop and Max a 5.



This really puts a dent in Verstappen's title bid and deprives us of a Hamilton vs Vertsppen fight at the start.

Nothing changed from qualifying. Max was never going to beat Hamilton on this track. Mercedes car was head and shoulders above everybody.

If anything the penalty hurt Mercedes because if Bottas from 3rd could have gotten by Verstappen, Mercedes could have maximized their weekend. In the end, it was RBR that minimized Hamilton's win.

The season really comes down to Jeddah.

Will this somehow be a RBR or Mercedes circuit?

Will Mercedes continue with Grid Dominating pace that they struggled with all season but now have found?

[Zico]

You wanna know who's going to win , Dazey ?

Shhh.. don't tell us, I'm enjoying this racing competition delusion thing. Merc are cutting it a bit fine though, don't you think?

[truefan72]

I mean they had no choice in this case, but to hand out the penalties.
Not doing so, or pretending like they don't have the data wasn't going to cut it.

[F1nKS]

Shhh.. don't tell us, I'm enjoying this racing competition delusion thing. Merc are cutting it a bit fine though, don't you think?

I think Mercedes turned it up a little too much too quickly. They broke the delusion and now people are starting to ask questions.

[F1nKS]

I mean they had no choice in this case, but to hand out the penalties.
Not doing so, or pretending like they don't have the data wasn't going to cut it.

I don't think that is even a question. It was a weird situation with the FIA system not actually fully functioning correctly - and they probably should investigate themselves why their safety systems failed.

But in the end, if you see a car on the side of the track you know there should be a "yellow" flag and you should act accordingly.

[Tazio]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEvM2P1XsAM3Hab?format=jpg&name=small


:angel: Hail Geezer

[The Black Knight]

Max Verstappen said he was not surprised to be handed a grid penalty at the Qatar Grand Prix as he "never gets presents" from F1's race stewards.

Erm, Brazil?

What an insufferable moron.

[airshifter]

Well Horner finally put his foot in his mouth enough to warrant making some apologies. I hope he enjoys the Stewards Program training in February..... at least he did volunteer for it after his comments.

https://twitter.com/CroftyF1/status/1462465324633178116?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1462465324633178116%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.skysports.com%2Ff1%2Fnew s%2F12433%2F12475062%2Fqatar-gp-red-bulls-christian-horner-warned-over-rogue-marshal-comment-after-max-verstappen-penalty

However, in defense of that boneheaded move.... they do need to try to make sure drivers are getting clear and not mixed signals. In the case of Max, a slam dunk penalty either way IMHO, as the flashing white and flags were visible. In the case of Sainz and Bottas, no light, and that marshal's stand and the flag didn't really show any clear flag waving either. And as the stand was located really right where Gasly was on track, it almost seemed to indicate that there was a hazard beyond Gasly, and that is what some of them appeared to respond to. Had there been a previous yellow and the next back marshal's stand I'm not sure, but I haven't seen any video of it if there was.

At the very minimum, they should made sure the marshal and flag locations are easy to spot for the drivers, if that is what they expect them to use as the primary hazard visual.



As for the race, nothing unexpected other than some making that one stop strategy work. Perez did his thing early and it looked like Bottas was in trouble but that switched as the race progressed. Great management by Alonso to get himself back on the podium. I was shocked that among the frontrunners that two stopped that nobody even made an attempt to go to the red tires. They lasted almost as well as the yellows, and might have given some pace. I'm not sure it it was lack of tires or just data showing them slower.

Merc seemed to have their head in the proper strategy today, and I'll guess that Lewis isn't as upset with the tire strategy after what happened with Bottas. But Merc seem to make decent calls until things get tight either way. RB had enough pace to steal back the fast lap, even though the extra late stop didn't give them a lap on the reds. Even with the cars they are driving, Lewis and Max have made it clear how much stronger they are vs the others on the teams. Those were massive gaps.



All of this is playing into Bagwan's earlier predictions, but I think the secret us out now. It seems some of the Merc sandbags are leaking and creating a lot of excess sand and dust on the track. :laugh:

As for the track, seems a challenge to drive and fun to watch, but really no passing opportunity except for the first turn. And without any visual references, sometimes hard to figure out where drivers were on track when they switched cameras.


Great to see such a tight season. I'd be willing to bet a lot of resources are being poured into the cars for the last races. The fat lady still has no need to warm up, as she probably won't sing at the next race.

[denkimi]

Nobody seems to have mentioned the 4 flat tyres in one weekend. I assume there is a problem with the curbs somewhere.

[The Black Knight]

Nobody seems to have mentioned the 4 flat tyres in one weekend. I assume there is a problem with the curbs somewhere.

Just a normal Pirelli shit show at this stage to be honest.

[denkimi]

Just a normal Pirelli shit show at this stage to be honest.
we haven't seen much tyres fail in qualifying before. hard to imagine a tyre fails on his first or second lap just by itself.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.pirelli-boss-isola-explains-qatar-tyre-issues-that-saw-bottas-russell-and.10WNRRptmywRBmvNRL7Wb4.html


“It’s not a secret that [many teams] had also damage to chassis, to the floor, to the wings, and when a tyre is worn, it’s less protected from kerbs, big impacts, high-energy impacts.

so i assume there is something to the curbs there that other tracks don't have.

[The Black Knight]

we haven't seen much tyres fail in qualifying before. hard to imagine a tyre fails on his first or second lap just by itself.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.pirelli-boss-isola-explains-qatar-tyre-issues-that-saw-bottas-russell-and.10WNRRptmywRBmvNRL7Wb4.html



so i assume there is something to the curbs there that other tracks don't have.

Possibly but they still have questions to answer over Baku. Their answer of it was "the way the tires were being used" is utter tripe.

[Nitrodaze]

Nobody seems to have mentioned the 4 flat tyres in one weekend. I assume there is a problem with the curbs somewhere.

The curbs on this track are brutal. It damaged a few front wings. The abrasive track which wore down the tyres dangerously low and possibly harsh curb loads or carbon fibre from damaged wings had something to do with it. The teams that had tyre failure were believed to have run the tyres longer than was recommended by Pirelli.

The Pirelli tyres have got better but still look a bit fragile outside normal conditions.

[truefan72]

well TBH running them hard beyond their operating window is one issue.
Running them that many laps constantly over abrasive curbs is another.
The fault lies partially with the FIA for not mandating better track limits, partially with the track (only about 5%) and mainly with the teams for leaving their drivers out there too long and pushing their luck. Most 1 stoppers managed just fine. Others probably pushed them too hard on the curbs/

[denkimi]

Gasly had his puncture in quali. You know, the part where they drive with brand new tyres. Yet, they were ripped to shreds in 3 seconds.
So that had nothing to do with tyre wear or long runs.

[Nitrodaze]

Gasly had his puncture in quali. You know, the part where they drive with brand new tyres. Yet, they were ripped to shreds in 3 seconds.
So that had nothing to do with tyre wear or long runs.

Gasly's front wing broke on the curb and tucked under the car and shattered. The carbon fibre from the shattered wing was believed to be the cause of his tyre failure.

I don't remember anyone saying anything about what a great race Alonso did at Qatar. In a normal race, he started 3rd and finished 3rd ahead of Perez in the Redbull. That was a tremendous drive.

[Bagwan]

Shhh.. don't tell us, I'm enjoying this racing competition delusion thing. Merc are cutting it a bit fine though, don't you think?

The question is whether it might be seen as hubris or just confidence in their package .
But then , nobody is talking about the rocket engine they had in Monaco any more , so maybe no one will discover the sandbags they been carrying .

Now , they're being brazen and almost admitting to the whole thing by talking about the rocket in the open , assuming nobody will notice them dumping the sand just because they're in the desert .


So , yeah , it is a "bit fine" , as you say , but , pull it off and they'll get more accolades for winning a "hard fought" battle than they have had ever before in the hybrid era .

Worth it .

[Nitrodaze]

The question is whether it might be seen as hubris or just confidence in their package .
But then , nobody is talking about the rocket engine they had in Monaco any more , so maybe no one will discover the sandbags they been carrying .

Now , they're being brazen and almost admitting to the whole thing by talking about the rocket in the open , assuming nobody will notice them dumping the sand just because they're in the desert .


So , yeah , it is a "bit fine" , as you say , but , pull it off and they'll get more accolades for winning a "hard fought" battle than they have had ever before in the hybrid era .

Worth it .

You have flogged that conspiracy to death. You only have to be right if Redbull wins both championships. So what is your point? Mercedes train of wins must come to an end for you to be satisfied.

It is what it is! Pure bare-knuckle racing and the best team shall win it at Abu Dhabi.

[Zico]

The question is whether it might be seen as hubris or just confidence in their package .
But then , nobody is talking about the rocket engine they had in Monaco any more , so maybe no one will discover the sandbags they been carrying .

Now , they're being brazen and almost admitting to the whole thing by talking about the rocket in the open , assuming nobody will notice them dumping the sand just because they're in the desert .


So , yeah , it is a "bit fine" , as you say , but , pull it off and they'll get more accolades for winning a "hard fought" battle than they have had ever before in the hybrid era .

Worth it .


I love a good conspiracy, especially when it looks more convincing as the season progress's.
I do think they have had things largely in hand with some serious reserve ready to dip into if/as/when required... but I'd also like give Red Bull some credit for making Merc have to work harder and dip into these reserves... and put Merc in a somewhat vulnerable position in the closing races.
I'm just not convinced that the accolades received by cutting it so fine are well judged versus risk (IIRC, risk management was one of Totto's former job roles?) One DNF for Lewis or Bottas now could easily put one or both championships in serious doubt and I just can't see them taking such a huge risk, calculated or not.

Re- Monaco, I suspect their spicy engine is more of a recent thing. I might be wrong but didn't Lewis pit for fresh tyres when he posted that 1 sec faster lap with the rest of the front runners staying out? If not then you have a very valid point.. I'll have to go review that race now though to be sure I'm remembering it correctly.

[Bagwan]

You have flogged that conspiracy to death. You only have to be right if Redbull wins both championships. So what is your point? Mercedes train of wins must come to an end for you to be satisfied.

It is what it is! Pure bare-knuckle racing and the best team shall win it at Abu Dhabi.

You lost me there .

[Nitrodaze]

I love a good conspiracy, especially when it looks more convincing as the season progress's.
I do think they have had things largely in hand with some serious reserve ready to dip into if/as/when required... but I'd also like give Red Bull some credit for making Merc have to work harder and dip into these reserves... and put Merc in a somewhat vulnerable position in the closing races.
I'm just not convinced that the accolades received by cutting it so fine are well judged versus risk (IIRC, risk management was one of Totto's former job roles?) One DNF for Lewis or Bottas now could easily put one or both championships in serious doubt and I just can't see them taking such a huge risk, calculated or not.

Re- Monaco, I suspect their spicy engine is more of a recent thing. I might be wrong but didn't Lewis pit for fresh tyres when he posted that 1 sec faster lap with the rest of the front runners staying out? If not then you have a very valid point.. I'll have to go review that race now though to be sure I'm remembering it correctly.

You talk as if Redbull is out of it. Any number of things could happen in the next two races. Hence, both Mercedes and Redbull are vulnerable at this point. I would be more confident in Mercedes doing the business if they had not been so glaringly woeful at various points in the season. They are still very capable of messing it up.

Besides, these conspiracy theories greatly undermine Redbull's awesome performance this season. Redbull is in a position Ferrari was unable to reach. They are well poised to sweep up one or both titles if Mercedes fail to perform at their best these next two races.

We are essentially at a point that completely disproves the existence of any conspiracy. If there was one, Mercedes would not allow it to get so perilously close at this point of the season. They risk everything at this point. An engine failure, gearbox malfunction or a DNF while overtaking a backmarker can seriously put paid to their championship hopes.

Both teams are having the last two throw of the dice and it could go horribly wrong for either.

[Bagwan]

I love a good conspiracy, especially when it looks more convincing as the season progress's.
I do think they have had things largely in hand with some serious reserve ready to dip into if/as/when required... but I'd also like give Red Bull some credit for making Merc have to work harder and dip into these reserves... and put Merc in a somewhat vulnerable position in the closing races.
I'm just not convinced that the accolades received by cutting it so fine are well judged versus risk (IIRC, risk management was one of Totto's former job roles?) One DNF for Lewis or Bottas now could easily put one or both championships in serious doubt and I just can't see them taking such a huge risk, calculated or not.

Re- Monaco, I suspect their spicy engine is more of a recent thing. I might be wrong but didn't Lewis pit for fresh tyres when he posted that 1 sec faster lap with the rest of the front runners staying out? If not then you have a very valid point.. I'll have to go review that race now though to be sure I'm remembering it correctly.

My point is , it's been spicier than they've shown all year .
They've screwed up in a multitude of uncharacteristic ways , including a magic button , and I just don't believe Merc is as incompetent as they've looked this year .

As this season neared , everyone and his uncle was hoping against hope that somebody , anybody , could take the fight to Merc and the era of domination might end .
It seemed even Mercedes , itself , was really teetering on whether to stick around with the outcome likely to make folks yawn .

But now , with it tight , all are smiling .


If I am correct , and Merc and Lewis don't trip , despite leaving the laces untied most of the year , and win the championships , I think I'll be far more impressed than if it was a cake-walk for them .

I hope I didn't spoil the outcome for anybody there , but it will be epic , and Hamilton will win .

[Zico]

You talk as if Redbull is out of it. Any number of things could happen in the next two races. Hence, both Mercedes and Redbull are vulnerable at this point. I would be more confident in Mercedes doing the business if they had not been so glaringly woeful at various points in the season. They are still very capable of messing it up.

Besides, these conspiracy theories greatly undermine Redbull's awesome performance this season. Redbull is in a position Ferrari was unable to reach. They are well poised to sweep up one or both titles if Mercedes fail to perform at their best these next two races.

We are essentially at a point that completely disproves the existence of any conspiracy. If there was one, Mercedes would not allow it to get so perilously close at this point of the season. They risk everything at this point. An engine failure, gearbox malfunction or a DNF while overtaking a backmarker can seriously put paid to their championship hopes.

Both teams are having the last two throw of the dice and it could go horribly wrong for either.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Red Bull are out of it, absolutely anything can happen as you say.
I just feel that Merc and Lewis are favourites for both championships. About 70/30 in favour of Merc to take the manufacturers title and 60/40 for Lewis to take the WDC... if its a clean fight and they have no issues.

[Nitrodaze]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Red Bull are out of it, absolutely anything can happen as you say.
I just feel that Merc and Lewis are favourites for both championships. About 70/30 in favour of Merc to take the manufacturers title and 60/40 for Lewis to take the WDC... if its a clean fight and they have no issues.

Those are favourable odds. I personally think it is 50:50. And l don't think they are favourites to take both titles either. One maybe. I think they have to chase one at the expense of the other. It would take something special for them to win both. My confidence in Bottas is low. He may cost them the constructors championship. The driver's title depends on their engines working well and no crashes between Hamilton and Verstappen.

All Redbull has to do is to keep applying the pressure and see what unfolds.

[Nitrodaze]

My point is , it's been spicier than they've shown all year .
They've screwed up in a multitude of uncharacteristic ways , including a magic button , and I just don't believe Merc is as incompetent as they've looked this year .

As this season neared , everyone and his uncle was hoping against hope that somebody , anybody , could take the fight to Merc and the era of domination might end .
It seemed even Mercedes , itself , was really teetering on whether to stick around with the outcome likely to make folks yawn .

But now , with it tight , all are smiling .


If I am correct , and Merc and Lewis don't trip , despite leaving the laces untied most of the year , and win the championships , I think I'll be far more impressed than if it was a cake-walk for them .

I hope I didn't spoil the outcome for anybody there , but it will be epic , and Hamilton will win .

It is not as simple as that. Redbull are just as likely to win it too.

[Mia 01]

I have no pride as a poster on this site or others, all I want is that Max takes the price and Kimi scores some points in the remaining races. all the rest is buzzz for me.

[truefan72]

Max Verstappen said he was not surprised to be handed a grid penalty at the Qatar Grand Prix as he "never gets presents" from F1's race stewards.

Erm, Brazil?

What an insufferable moron.

It was a laughable statement


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bagwan]

It is not as simple as that. Redbull are just as likely to win it too.

It has looked far from simple for the Mercedes team to make it appear to have competition this year .

It seems like I have more confidence in Lewis and Merc than you do .
Weird , eh ?

[Nitrodaze]

It has looked far from simple for the Mercedes team to make it appear to have competition this year .

It seems like I have more confidence in Lewis and Merc than you do .
Weird , eh ?

You Hamilton fanboy! :-)