2021 Race 10 - British Grand Prix

[F1nKS]

Only 2 races before the summer break. This race will be the opportunity to see if Mercedes has any answer to Red Bull. Mercedes (specifically Hamilton) own this race.

[Nitrodaze]

We head to the historic track of Silverstone for a unique racing format. The first-ever F1 Sprint race weekend. Redbull comes into this weekend with three straight victories over Mercedes. For the first time in eight seasons, the seven-time world champions find themselves in a bit of a quandary. The reigning driver world champion stares quizzingly at his team as the emergence of a new force in F1 begins to emanate in the form of Max Verstappen. The pesky dutchman, quick-witted and snappy to offer a cheeky reply, stand tall, confident but cautious. Knowing full well that Mercedes and Hamilton are very capable of turning the tables around at a moments notice. Even so, A Silverstone victory seems assured for Verstappen with chance his only possible obstacle. Get the six-pack, crisps and other snacks ready, we are in for an exciting race weekend.

[Zico]

We head to the historic track of Silverstone for a unique racing format. The first-ever F1 Sprint race weekend. Redbull comes into this weekend with three straight victories over Mercedes. For the first time in eight seasons, the seven-time world champions find themselves in a bit of a quandary. The reigning driver world champion stares quizzingly at his team as the emergence of a new force in F1 begins to emanate in the form of Max Verstappen. The pesky dutchman, quick-witted and snappy to offer a cheeky reply, stand tall, confident but cautious. Knowing full well that Mercedes and Hamilton are very capable of turning the tables around at a moments notice. Even so, A Silverstone victory seems assured for Verstappen with chance his only possible obstacle. Get the six-pack, crisps and other snacks ready, we are in for an exciting race weekend.




You were saying Nitro... :D

Does that mean you now believe Lewis is back in contention for the WDC again?

I'm not exactly surprised he took pole and Merc look strong again... but I can't believe Baggie hasn't said anything yet.

[Bagwan]

You were saying Nitro... :D

Does that mean you now believe Lewis is back in contention for the WDC again?

I'm not exactly surprised he took pole and Merc look strong again... but I can't believe Baggie hasn't said anything yet.

You drinking the Koolaid now , Zico ?

Hearing the roar of the crowd when you've got a "worthy" opponent is way better than hearing "oh , him again" .
From nowhere in practice to pole .
Cinderella story to be sure .

And , TBK announced George at Silverstone , so the bagwan's crystal ball has the DRS open , baby .

[Tazio]

Pip, pip, pip, pip, pip! :bandit:

[Nitrodaze]

You were saying Nitro... :D

Does that mean you now believe Lewis is back in contention for the WDC again?

I'm not exactly surprised he took pole and Merc look strong again... but I can't believe Baggie hasn't said anything yet.

Nah, Verstappen is still quicker. A strange oversteer is what prevented him from taking pole. He was clearly faster through most of the speed traps. Besides, Mercedes had to use both cars to find that speed. Sacrificing Bottas' chances to ensure a Mercedes takes pole.

Nope, Mercedes is not in contention properly yet. But it was nice to see a change at the top. I really hope the Mercedes is fast enough to give Redbull a real fight this weekend.

[F1nKS]

Looking at the comparison video of Hamilton versus Max in qualifying, Mercedes has superior straight line speed. RB car is superior in the corners.

For Mercedes to be competitive tomorrow they need to do something overnight that gets them a little more pace in the corners.

Red Bull has to be looking for alternative to Perez for 2022. Bottas is getting a lot of criticism, but Perez continues to make serious mistakes.

[Nitrodaze]

Looking at the comparison video of Hamilton versus Max in qualifying, Mercedes has superior straight line speed. RB car is superior in the corners.

For Mercedes to be competitive tomorrow they need to do something overnight that gets them a little more pace in the corners.

Red Bull has to be looking for alternative to Perez for 2022. Bottas is getting a lot of criticism, but Perez continues to make serious mistakes.

I doubt many will do well in that second car of Redbull. I think Perez would get on top of the issues around the car. Besides, due to the minimal track time available to drivers that switched teams this season, most has struggled to get the best performance in their new cars. Ricciardo is struggling as much as Perez. But the Spanish drivers are showing the most progress in their new cars. Vettel is getting better with the Aston as well.

That said, Perez is doing a great job. Mistakes would happen. He is good enough to recover back into the to six, Also don't forget that Perez is a race winner in that cursed Redbull car.

[F1nKS]

I think Perez would get on top of the issues around the car. Besides, due to the minimal track time available to drivers that switched teams this season, most has struggled to get the best performance in their new cars.

It is one thing growing into the car - I can understand that. Halfway through the season now. And now it is two weeks in row Perez is making rookie mistakes that have nothing to do with the car. He continue to struggle in qualifying and pretty much on par with Albon and Gasly were.

If Gasly or Albon were still in the seat I think they would probably have just as good as results as Perez this year - and they might have a higher upside.


Mistakes would happen. He is good enough to recover back into the to six, Also don't forget that Perez is a race winner in that cursed Redbull car.

Except Perez wouldn't have been the race winner had Hamilton not peed down his own leg.

[Nitrodaze]

It is one thing growing into the car - I can understand that. Halfway through the season now. And now it is two weeks in row Perez is making rookie mistakes that have nothing to do with the car. He continue to struggle in qualifying and pretty much on par with Albon and Gasly were.

If Gasly or Albon were still in the seat I think they would probably have just as good as results as Perez this year - and they might have a higher upside.



Except Perez wouldn't have been the race winner had Hamilton not peed down his own leg.

Well, l don't hear you saying the same thing about Ricciardo. I am beginning to think you don't like Mexicans. Stop picking on Perez.

[F1nKS]

Hamilton should be teaching law enforcement the "pit maneuver" - perfect pitting of Verstappen. Like Albon said last year - Hamilton is just a sore loser.

[Zico]

Oh well it was going to happen sooner or later.. game back on for Lewis if the car isn't badly damaged..

[F1nKS]

Hamilton should be teaching law enforcement the "pit maneuver" - perfect pitting of Verstappen. Like Albon said last year - Hamilton is just a sore loser.

English friend of mine on Hamilton - "He's Schumacher in the 90's"

[Nitrodaze]

English friend of mine on Hamilton - "He's Schumacher in the 90's"

Yea yea, you clearly don't like him. You never have since you joined this forum.

[Nitrodaze]

Oh well it was going to happen sooner or later.. game back on for Lewis if the car isn't badly damaged..

I think the stewards are going to give him a 5-sec penalty. They always do with Hamilton

[Nitrodaze]

But who's fault was it. We could see Verstappen weaving under braking. He did it twice before Hamilton decided to fake him out to the left and went right to take the position. Verstappen desperate to retake the position drove around on the outside and tried to close the door on Hamilton. They bang tyres and off to the scene of the accident he went.

It was championship fight; hardcore. And Hamilton was not having any more of Verstappen's antics.


What is really interesting about this incident, is that it now sets the scene for some hard racing between these two brilliant racers.

[Zico]

English friend of mine on Hamilton - "He's Schumacher in the 90's"


I think the stewards are going to give him a 5-sec penalty. They always do with Hamilton

Maybe but 5 secs is not really that much, he could still pull a huge chunk of points back.

[Tazio]

I think "The Boss" will get a 5 sec penalty!

[Zico]

Until I've seen it, I don't have an opinion yet, I'm only listening on 5 live.

[F1nKS]

Maybe but 5 secs is not really that much, he could still pull a huge chunk of points back.

I would rule it a racing incident after seeing all the replays (But I thought Norris/Perez was racing incident last race).

[Nitrodaze]

Until I've seen it, I don't have an opinion yet, I'm only listening on 5 live.

Well, approaching the corner, Hamilton was behind Verstappen and catching up fast. Verstappen could see that and jig left to cover the outside, but Hamilton ducked right and came alongside Verstappen, but really close to the pit wall. Which compromised his turn into the approaching right-hand corner. Hence, he could not hug the apex of the corner but was forced to the centre of the track, where Verstappen was trying to put his car to close down Hamilton. Verstappen's rear tyre banged into Hamilton's front left and he spun off into the barriers.

It was simply hard racing and really a racing incident. If it was anyone else, l am sure the stewards would declare it a racing incident. But it is Hamilton, they would definitely give him a penalty. We think 5 seconds penalty, but don't be surprised if it is a lot more.

The commentators on channel four were very quick to blame Hamilton for the incident. They expect a penalty for Hamilton. So it is a matter of time.

[Zico]

I would rule it a racing incident after seeing all the replays (But I thought Norris/Perez was racing incident last race).

Yep and I thought Russell's was more of a racing incident in the Sprint but he still got a 3 position penalty. Whatever the decision is as long as they start showing consistency across the board then I'm cool with it.

[truefan72]

If that isn't a racing incident, nothing is
also, let's not forget that Verstappen, retook the lead by going completely on the outside of Abbey
And then he did squeeze him as well.

What is frustrating are all the comments by the Sky folks who should know better but are all trying to have Hamilton get a penalty.
Their entire discussion is if Hamilton should have given him room, but not a single discussion if Verstappen should have given Hamilton room.
Hamilton was about as far in as he could and Max just cut him off like nobody was at the corner.

Oh well. This is a racing incident pure and simple, any other discussion of micro seconds or inches further left etc. is ridiculous.
Max has the reputation for overaggressive driving not Hamilton. Just yesterday he was weaving back and forth like crazy on the opening lap.
It was bound to happen with his driving style and it did.

[Nitrodaze]

Until I've seen it, I don't have an opinion yet, I'm only listening on 5 live.

Well, approaching the corner, Hamilton was behind Verstappen and catching up fast. Verstappen could see that and jig left to cover the outside, but Hamilton ducked right and came alongside Verstappen, but really close to the pit wall. Which compromised his turn into the approaching right-hand corner. Hence, he could not hug the apex of the corner but was forced to the centre of the track, where Verstappen was trying to put his car to close down Hamilton. Verstappen's rear tyre banged into Hamilton's front left and he spun off into the barriers.

It was simply hard racing and really a racing incident. If it was anyone else, l am sure the stewards would declare it a racing incident. But it is Hamilton, they would definitely give him a penalty. We think 5 seconds penalty, but diont be surprised if it is a lot more.

[Zico]

Well, approaching the corner, Hamilton was behind Verstappen and catching up fast. Verstappen could see that and jig left to cover the outside, but Hamilton ducked right and came alongside Verstappen, but really close to the pit wall. Which compromised his turn into the approaching right-hand corner. Hence, he could not hug the apex of the corner but was forced to the centre of the track, where Verstappen was trying to put his car to close down Hamilton. Verstappen's rear tyre banged into Hamilton's front left and he spun off into the barriers.

It was simply hard racing and really a racing incident. If it was anyone else, l am sure the stewards would declare it a racing incident. But it is Hamilton, they would definitely give him a penalty. We think 5 seconds penalty, but don't be surprised if it is a lot more.

The commentators on channel four were very quick to blame Hamilton for the incident. They expect a penalty for Hamilton. So it is a matter of time.

Thanks.

[Nitrodaze]

If that isn't a racing incident, nothing is
also, let's not forget that Verstappen, retook the lead by going completely on the outside of Abbey
And then he did squeeze him as well.

What is frustrating are all the comments by the Sky folks who should know better but are all trying to have Hamilton get a penalty.
Their entire discussion is if Hamilton should have given him room, but not a single discussion if Verstappen should have given Hamilton room.
Hamilton was about as far in as he could and Max just cut him off like nobody was at the corner.

Oh well. This is a racing incident pure and simple, any other discussion of micro seconds or inches further left etc. is ridiculous.
Max has the reputation for overaggressive driving not Hamilton. Just yesterday he was weaving back and forth like crazy on the opening lap.
It was bound to happen with his driving style and it did.

My thoughts exactly. I thought Verstappen could have avoided the accident by leaving room on the right. He had more to lose in terms of point, hence should have been more careful than he did.

[Zico]

If that isn't a racing incident, nothing is
also, let's not forget that Verstappen, retook the lead by going completely on the outside of Abbey
And then he did squeeze him as well.

What is frustrating are all the comments by the Sky folks who should know better but are all trying to have Hamilton get a penalty.
Their entire discussion is if Hamilton should have given him room, but not a single discussion if Verstappen should have given Hamilton room.
Hamilton was about as far in as he could and Max just cut him off like nobody was at the corner.

Oh well. This is a racing incident pure and simple, any other discussion of micro seconds or inches further left etc. is ridiculous.
Max has the reputation for overaggressive driving not Hamilton. Just yesterday he was weaving back and forth like crazy on the opening lap.
It was bound to happen with his driving style and it did.

That's funny... on 5 live I'm hearing the complete opposite perspective. Totally Hamilton biased! :D

[truefan72]

Well, approaching the corner, Hamilton was behind Verstappen and catching up fast. Verstappen could see that and jig left to cover the outside, but Hamilton ducked right and came alongside Verstappen, but really close to the pit wall. Which compromised his turn into the approaching right-hand corner. Hence, he could not hug the apex of the corner but was forced to the centre of the track, where Verstappen was trying to put his car to close down Hamilton. Verstappen's rear tyre banged into Hamilton's front left and he spun off into the barriers.

It was simply hard racing and really a racing incident. If it was anyone else, l am sure the stewards would declare it a racing incident. But it is Hamilton, they would definitely give him a penalty. We think 5 seconds penalty, but don't be surprised if it is a lot more.

The commentators on channel four were very quick to blame Hamilton for the incident. They expect a penalty for Hamilton. So it is a matter of time.

Yeah, it is like they want him to get a penalty. It was a racing incident pure and simple and Karun's analysis provided more conclusive analysis to that fact.
It is just sad to see how quickly the rest of the sky folks and Channel 4 guys are quick to blame Hamilton. At least Brundle has revised his comments and believes it was a racing incident. Button and Damon hill are firmly in camp max and I find that ironic coming from 2 drivers who should know better.

[truefan72]

That's funny... on 5 live I'm hearing the complete opposite perspective. Totally Hamilton biased! :D

lol.

[Nitrodaze]

I would take a bet that Bottas is dropped next season.

[Nitrodaze]

Just like l thought, they have given him a ten seconds penalty. Funny enough Mark Webber of Channel four thinks it was a soft penalty.

[truefan72]

madness, they gave hamilton a 10sec penalty

that is just madness!!!

[truefan72]

oh well.
I'm done,
nothing about this decision makes sense.
I guess racing incidents don't happen ever

I believe these stupid stewards were not considering the incident at all, but the outcome and what it means for the championship.
Which of course...Kravitz said "the experienced crew, won't be doing that" lol

its all disgusting. Hamilton will rise, he will overcome!!

[Zico]

madness, they gave hamilton a 10sec penalty

that is just madness!!!


Sounds harsh... he will likely still be on the podium though.

[Zico]

Sounds like opinions are very polarised. Wonder what camp I'll fall into once I've seen it.

[Nitrodaze]

Look at Leclerc lead the grand prix. Ferrari would have their fingers and toes crossed hoping he can bring it home.

A Ferrari win would be outstanding

[Zico]

It's up..

https://youtu.be/Dzi9lrTWWD4



Hmmm... can't say I blame Lewis, they were level. Doubt Max would have turned in deliberately though so probably didn't know he was there... although that is no excuse. I'd say 60/40 Max's fault.. or racing incident at a push.

[denkimi]

It's not like Hamilton did it on purpose, but he shouldn't have been there. There is no way could make a pass there, so he should have backed off. But them again, he's not obligated to do that. So i would keep it at a racing incident.


But since the stewards seem to blame Hamilton, i think its a very soft penalty. He took his big rival out and will still get 18 or even 26 points. A 10 second stop and go would seem more appropriate.

[truefan72]

SMH at Ferrari, engine issues really?
What is going on with Ferrari.
Man Leclerc can't catch a break

[Nitrodaze]

Leclerc seem to have intermittent engine cut

[truefan72]

if the engine holds up, i think Leclerc wins this

[Nitrodaze]

I think Ferrari can win this race.

[Nitrodaze]

Yep , a Leclerc win and a very famous win l think.

[Nitrodaze]

What a drive from Hamilton?

[truefan72]

wow, wow, wow!
speechless!

[Zico]

Watched it again a few times and now see it more towards Lewis's fault but I'd accept racing incident.

The gloves will be right off from now on and I expect Max to have seen it very differently and return the favour at some point in the near future.
A mere 10 sec penalty for punting your WDC rival into the wall? That must be tempting for some.. and not something I want to see.

[truefan72]

ugh. that fraud Horner, is spewing absolute nonsense in his post race interview.
A laughable interview and unashamedly biased beyond reason

[Nitrodaze]

Watched it again a few times and now see it more towards Lewis's fault but I'd accept racing incident.

The gloves will be right off from now on and I expect Max to have seen it very differently and return the favour at some point in the near future.
A mere 10 sec penalty for punting your WDC rival into the wall? That must be tempting for some.. and not something I want to see.

It was a racing incident as it was not done intentionally. Verstappen was racing really hard and it was clear that Hamilton was determined to get in front, l sort of expected something like this to happen.

Whose fault it is is a matter of opinion. But l think ten seconds was the maximum applicable under the circumstances. Verstappenn has already been racing with his elbow out, so l doubt he could take it to another level.

[Zico]

ugh. that fraud Horner, is spewing absolute nonsense in his post race interview.
A laughable interview and unashamedly biased beyond reason


Tbh I think all of us would share a similar opinion if we were the RB team principle and vice versa if Toto. Its incredibly polarising, can be seen both ways and its really just a racing incident.

[Fortitude]

FORMULA 1 PIRELLI BRITISH GRAND PRIX 2021 - RACE RESULT

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1072/great-britain/race-result.html

[Nitrodaze]

Tbh I think all of us would share a similar opinion if we were the RB team principle and vice versa if Toto. Its incredibly polarising, can be seen both ways and its really just a racing incident.

The championship fight has just got tougher. Verstappen has just got a notice from Hamilton that he is going to race harder from now on. Verstappen would need to take his racing to another level to continue building his advantage. But we all knew it was never going to be a walk in the park for Verstappen to win the championship. But he has a car that is the best in the grid at the moment. He would need to get his head down for the next race.

As for Horner, he talks bollocks at the best of time. What the f*ck does he mean Hamilton should have backed off? This is not a tea party, it is a fight for the championship of 2021.

This is the sort of race that we the fans love to see. It was entertaining from start to finish.

[Fortitude]

Verstappen transferred to hospital for further checks after British Grand Prix crash

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.verstappen-transferred-to-hospital-for-further-checks-after-british-grand.7KrQBmPADAcco5dgTM190x.html


Helmut Marko
Red Bull's Marko calls for Hamilton to be suspended

https://racingnews365.com/red-bulls-marko-calls-for-hamilton-to-be-suspended


‘It was a desperate move’ – Furious Horner hits out at Hamilton after Verstappen crash

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.it-was-a-desperate-move-furious-horner-hits-out-at-hamilton-after-verstappen.70vvrMmYUhNPfjSVc4xDbi.html


'Blame Hamilton': Verstappen out of British Grand Prix after first-lap collision

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210718-blame-hamilton-verstappen-out-of-british-grand-prix-after-first-lap-collision


Lewis Hamilton accused of ‘dirty driving’ by Red Bull’s Christian Horner after 180mph Max Verstappen crash

The crash sent Verstappen into the wall and out of the race, while Hamilton dropped back to second behind Charles Leclerc

https://inews.co.uk/sport/formula-one/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-crash-dirty-driving-silverstone-british-grand-prix-christian-horner-1109450?ITO=newsnow


Horner updates Verstappen condition after 51G crash

It was a wild start to the British GP as Max Verstappen slammed into the wall after coming together with Lewis Hamilton. The Dutchman seems to be doing well according to Red Bull team principal Christian Horner.

https://racingnews365.com/horner-updates-verstappen-condition-after-51g-crash


Lewis Hamilton's 'unusual' radio response to penalty from Max Verstappen crash

Christian Horner made it clear that he wanted Hamilton to be given a penalty while Toto Wolff insisted there were images that proved it was a racing incident.

The FIA eventually decided to hand Hamilton a 10-second penalty as the race got back underway.

And Chandhuk noted that Hamilton gave an unusually calm response to the news of his penalty.

"It's been really interesting listening to the radio," he said on Sky Sports.

"Pete Bonnington telling Hamilton about his penalty but no real reaction from Lewis.

"There wasn't any of the argument back saying that was unfair, none of it.

"Just silence and quite unusual I thought.

"It's almost like he was expecting it to happen."

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1464290/Lewis-Hamilton-Max-Verstappen-crash-Silverstone-British-Grand-Prix-F1


Horner furious after 'hollow' Hamilton win: I hope Lewis is happy with himself

Red Bull's Christian Horner was fuming after the British Grand Prix, after watching Lewis Hamilton take the win after being given a penalty for taking Max Verstappen out of the race.

https://racingnews365.com/horner-furious-after-hollow-hamilton-win-i-hope-lewis-is-happy-with-himself


RED BULL FULL FIA RADIO WAR WITH MERCEDES AFTER VERSTAPPEN'S HUGE CRASH! | 2021 British GP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD3V7TAFkSM


F1 Silverstone 2021 Start Crash Video - Lewis Hamilton's Crash With Max Verstappen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkqbEVqtEQY


Toto Wolff responds to Horner's comments after Hamilton & Verstappen collision!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdhWD0COPKI


"It's unacceptable!" | Horner disappointed with Hamilton over collision with Max Verstappen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IbHZa12Rjc

[The Black Knight]

100% racing incident between Max and Lewis. But going through my mind throughout the entire first lap was that Hamilton had to lay down a marker to Max. I think Max has pushed the boundaries of aggressive driving a number of times this year and he had come out on top each time over Lewis. Even touching wheels on the straight was needless by Max. He thought Max a lesson today, that he won't back out anymore and it needed to be done. He can think twice moving forward about what he does.

Horner is spouting nonsense, saying you don't stuck a wheel up the inside into Copse, of course you do and it has been done many times in the past. Max is an uncompromising driver and if you never compromise you will eventually have incidents like these.

Delighted for LeClerc. Amazing drive from him as usual.

[Nitrodaze]

Verstappen transferred to hospital for further checks after British Grand Prix crash

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.verstappen-transferred-to-hospital-for-further-checks-after-british-grand.7KrQBmPADAcco5dgTM190x.html


Helmut Marko
Red Bull's Marko calls for Hamilton to be suspended

https://racingnews365.com/red-bulls-marko-calls-for-hamilton-to-be-suspended


‘It was a desperate move’ – Furious Horner hits out at Hamilton after Verstappen crash

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.it-was-a-desperate-move-furious-horner-hits-out-at-hamilton-after-verstappen.70vvrMmYUhNPfjSVc4xDbi.html


'Blame Hamilton': Verstappen out of British Grand Prix after first-lap collision

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210718-blame-hamilton-verstappen-out-of-british-grand-prix-after-first-lap-collision


Lewis Hamilton accused of ‘dirty driving’ by Red Bull’s Christian Horner after 180mph Max Verstappen crash

The crash sent Verstappen into the wall and out of the race, while Hamilton dropped back to second behind Charles Leclerc

https://inews.co.uk/sport/formula-one/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-crash-dirty-driving-silverstone-british-grand-prix-christian-horner-1109450?ITO=newsnow


Horner updates Verstappen condition after 51G crash

It was a wild start to the British GP as Max Verstappen slammed into the wall after coming together with Lewis Hamilton. The Dutchman seems to be doing well according to Red Bull team principal Christian Horner.

https://racingnews365.com/horner-updates-verstappen-condition-after-51g-crash


Lewis Hamilton's 'unusual' radio response to penalty from Max Verstappen crash

Christian Horner made it clear that he wanted Hamilton to be given a penalty while Toto Wolff insisted there were images that proved it was a racing incident.

The FIA eventually decided to hand Hamilton a 10-second penalty as the race got back underway.

And Chandhuk noted that Hamilton gave an unusually calm response to the news of his penalty.

"It's been really interesting listening to the radio," he said on Sky Sports.

"Pete Bonnington telling Hamilton about his penalty but no real reaction from Lewis.

"There wasn't any of the argument back saying that was unfair, none of it.

"Just silence and quite unusual I thought.

"It's almost like he was expecting it to happen."

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1464290/Lewis-Hamilton-Max-Verstappen-crash-Silverstone-British-Grand-Prix-F1


Horner furious after 'hollow' Hamilton win: I hope Lewis is happy with himself

Red Bull's Christian Horner was fuming after the British Grand Prix, after watching Lewis Hamilton take the win after being given a penalty for taking Max Verstappen out of the race.

https://racingnews365.com/horner-furious-after-hollow-hamilton-win-i-hope-lewis-is-happy-with-himself

No surprise there!

[Nitrodaze]

Hamilton showed once again why he is one of the very best driver to turn a F1 wheel. Masterclass driver, Senna would be proud of that one.

[Nitrodaze]

Watched it again a few times and now see it more towards Lewis's fault but I'd accept racing incident.

The gloves will be right off from now on and I expect Max to have seen it very differently and return the favour at some point in the near future.
A mere 10 sec penalty for punting your WDC rival into the wall? That must be tempting for some.. and not something I want to see.

I would recommend that you go to the skysport website and watch the thorough analysis of Karun Chandhok. It is hard to see it as anything but a racing incident. The stewards were very predictably harsh to Hamilton. And Horner just wants an easy championship win. As for the press, we all knew what they would write at the moment of the incident.

[Zico]

What a really disappointing post from you Nitro..

Senna might have done the same but that doesn't make it great. That was a 51G impact, Max could have been seriously injured or worse, to profit from victory in this way at Max's expense is certainly nothing to gloat about.

Sure he won and overcame a 10 sec penalty but thats not THAT impressive considering the Merc was about 1 sec faster a lap than the Ferrari anyway.

[Bagwan]

Yeah , a car that couldn't pass the Ferrari for most of the race , suddenly takes ten seconds out of it in the last ten or so laps and passes it convincingly for the win .
I figured it was time for the Lewis win , to go along with the big plan , but I didn't figure he'd put the bull in the barriers to do it .

Max left Lewis enough room inside , even opening the wheel when he saw the car , as Chandock showed afterwards in the analysis .
Button pointed out that Lewis understeered into Max , most importantly , never getting to the apex , so Max had clearly left enough room .

Thus , ten seconds sounds fair to me .

If Max had pushed Lewis right into the apex , I would see it differently .
Then , perhaps I could see it as a racing incident .
As it was , Lewis would know he would be at serious risk of losing grip trying to make the corner so tight , and he'd also be pretty aware that Max would have more speed on a wider trajectory .

When it was Lewis and Leclerc , Lewis was farther in and on a better line to make the corner . That was what I saw as a fair one .


It was a stellar drive to come back after that , even if you can discount it to some degree being they have another gear .
It was still a good drive .

[Nitrodaze]

What a really disappointing post from you Nitro..

Senna might have done the same but that doesn't make it great. That was a 51G impact, Max could have been seriously injured or worse, to profit from victory in this way at Max's expense is certainly nothing to gloat about.

Sure he won and overcame a 10 sec penalty but thats not THAT impressive considering the Merc was about 1 sec faster a lap than the Ferrari anyway.

Make no mistake mate, l was just as worried about Verstappen as anyone. I am genuinely happy to hear he is ok. But this is motor racing. To avoid these sorts of situations, it is important that there is mutual respect between the drivers. And to know when not to push the envelope of competition. Today both drivers pushed the envelope as one would expect in a championship fight. Hence, this crash was a long time coming. I said it at the first race of the season when Verstappen aggressively took Hamilton's front wing.

And there is no gloating here. It is racing as we see it. And it is a very important lesson for all, that every driver on the grid can drive very aggressively too. It is not an entitlement for any one driver. We saw it with the Baku crash with Ricciardo and the Singapore Crash in the Vettel Raikkonen sandwich.

I think this crash was avoidable with some mutual track spatial respect. The way both drivers drove into Corpse corner did not have that. And that crash was the outcome.

Yes, Verstappen was the victim of the crash, that does not absolve him from his part in bringing about the crash.

I hope lessons has been learnt to avoid a repeat of this situation.

[Zico]

Make no mistake mate, l was just as worried about Verstappen as anyone. I am genuinely happy to hear he is ok. But this is motor racing. To avoid these sorts of situations, it is important that there is mutual respect between the drivers. And to know when not to push the envelope of competition. Today both drivers pushed the envelope as one would expect in a championship fight. Hence, this crash was a long time coming. I said it at the first race of the season when Verstappen aggressively took Hamilton's front wing.

And there is no gloating here. It is racing as we see it. And it is a very important lesson for all, that every driver on the grid can drive very aggressively too. It is not an entitlement for any one driver. We saw it with the Baku crash with Ricciardo and the Singapore Crash in the Vettel Raikkonen sandwich.

I think this crash was avoidable with some mutual track spatial respect. The way both drivers drove into Corpse corner did not have that. And that crash was the outcome.

Yes, Verstappen was the victim of the crash, that does not absolve him from his part in bringing about the crash.

I hope lessons has been learnt to avoid a repeat of this situation.


I know what you would be saying if the shoe was on the other foot and Lewis had had ended up in the wall... it would have been quite different.


Baggie, your conspiracy theory has been strengthened a tad after today! 😀

[Nitrodaze]

When it was Lewis and Leclerc , Lewis was farther in and on a better line to make the corner . That was what I saw as a fair one .


It was a stellar drive to come back after that , even if you can discount it to some degree being they have another gear .
It was still a good drive .

That is because Leclerc did not try to squeeze Hamilton going into the corner. Hamilton was able to take a better line through the corner.

The whole incident was brewing from the moment Hamilton tried to get alongside Verstappen. Verstappen did a small jig to the left then Hamilton duck in the right. Verstappen then chose to squeeze him into the wall as they approached the corner. The Verstappen realized that Hamilton was properly alongside him. He then made a small adjustment, which was purely to take a better line through the corner. But his trajectory was not to give Hamilton any room.

Now, from the tight corner of the track next to the wall, Hamilton's line through the corner was severely compromised. There was no way he would have been able to take the kerbs from where he was. His only available path was a slightly wider trajectory or slow to allow Leclerc to pass him. How, l see it, is Verstappen should have taken a wider trajectory to avoid the crash, since he has more to lose. But he was expecting Hamilton to chicken out of the attack. Hamilton on the other hand with one eye on Leclerc was expecting Verstappen to take a wider trajectory knowing that the squeeze was going to force him to miss the apex of the corner.

It was a racing incident from very hard arcing. This is what the show is about.

[The Black Knight]

What a really disappointing post from you Nitro..

Senna might have done the same but that doesn't make it great. That was a 51G impact, Max could have been seriously injured or worse, to profit from victory in this way at Max's expense is certainly nothing to gloat about.

Sure he won and overcame a 10 sec penalty but thats not THAT impressive considering the Merc was about 1 sec faster a lap than the Ferrari anyway.

The impact is irrelevant to what caused the crash. If the impact is determining your analysis of who was wrong then you're leading with emotion and not your head. In the end it boils down to one thing, both drivers could have given each other more room, this is why it is a 50/50 racing incident with no one driver to blame more than the other.

[Nitrodaze]

I know what you would be saying if the shoe was on the other foot and Lewis had had ended up in the wall... it would have been quite different.


Baggie, your conspiracy theory has been strengthened a tad after today! ��

Nope, l would have heavily criticized Hamilton if the situation was reversed. I am very objective.

[Zico]

Nope, l would have heavily criticized Hamilton if the situation was reversed. I am very objective.


😆 Now I know you are just a troll.

[Nitrodaze]

�� Now I know you are just a troll.

No need for abuse Zico. It is just a discussion.

[Zico]

No need for abuse Zico. It is just a discussion.

😆.. If I called you a A-hole or whatever then you'd have a point but calling someone a troll isn't abuse, especially when it's true.

[Nitrodaze]

��.. If I called you a A-hole or whatever then you'd have a point but calling someone a troll isn't abuse, especially when it's true.

Well you have your opinion/ And l have mine.

[Zico]

Well you have your opinion/ And l have mine.

Yep, its interesting that Lewis himself doesn't actually blame Max anymore and has backtracked a bit... he went from saying "he turned in to me" to.. "I was pretty far alongside him but I could see he wasn't going to back out, but then we went into the corner and we collided. Of course that's never the way I want to win a race or just in general to race, but these things do happen. I just hope he's OK. And I look forward to many more races."

After watching it a few times I also changed my mind from that Max was more fault so I guess Lewis and I are more on the same page than you are.

[F1nKS]

nope, l would have heavily criticized hamilton if the situation was reversed. I am very objective.

rofl

[F1nKS]

Winners and Losers

1. Leclerc - nice drive with broken engine.

2. Hamilton - couldn't beat his opponent on the track so just give him a little "pitting".

3. Mclaren - finished 4th and 5th. Ricardo looked good this weekend.

4. Alonso - He seems to be back in racing form, he just need the car to go with him.

Losers

1. Verstappen - being knocked out and then

2. Perez - was not racy at all. The best he could do was climb into 10th before they decided they wanted to go for fastest lap at the very end. Albon last year finished 5th and 8th in this grand prix.

3. Bottas - he doesn't even pretend to be a race car driver any more. He could have put pressure on Hamilton in the sprint race but let up. It will be interesting to see if him being the "team player" save his job or not. I hope it does, because I would love to RB go after Russell.

4. Russell - hoping to see him get his first points at Silverstone. Bad luck on the penalty and just doesn't have a car with enough juice.

[Big Ben]

10 seconds to take my rival out? Don't mind if I do. What a joke of a penalty.

[airshifter]

Well, that added something to the race. IMHO a justified penalty, as Lewis was behind and had well more than a car width. You can't keep diving towards a late apex when there is a car there, it just doesn't work.

Glad that Max seems to be fine, and I do think that off might bring up the run off area there. He didn't scrub much speed at all on the way to the wall, so a double wall might be a wise idea. Also interesting how the wheel came right off, but that's another issue.

Other than that, some really good drives.

Lewis drove a great recovery drive once he got his head down. Hard to say if he was in long game mode on the first set of tires and not wanting to take life out of them to pass Leclerc, of if the Merc just fired up the hards better and thus the lap times. Either way, not much in it at the end and he had to push hard to make it to the front.

Good to see that Ferrari had a good race, even with Leclerc's issues. Though Lewis was on fire after the stop, the time lost with the problems on the Ferrari might have given Charles a chance at the win. But he did well to keep it in second spot, and a good recovery drive from Sainz to bring the car up to 6th spot.

Ricciardo finally had a good race, but Norris got screwed out of a shot at a podium with that pit stop. Being we know that Bottas isn't very racy on track, that 4 seconds was huge. And Lando had the additional issue of coming out behind Alonso.

Stroll, Ocon, and Tsunoda were all fairly solid drives, and as is often the case Alonso got the most out of the car on race day.

Crap weekend for Perez, and I think RB seemed to drop the ball with messing with his strategy today and calling him in early. But then RB was also wise enough to make the call to go for fast lap to steal the point from Lewis..... and in the process gave up a point themselves. In a tight battle that point might matter.



I swear listening to Croft and Brundle worship Lewis is bad enough on any track, but downright enough to make you sick at the British GP. I especially liked the moaning over the penalty and how it had ruined Lewis's race. Then they ignore the rest of the race and rattle on about anything Lewis related, all with such sickening glee.

And as usual here on the forums, both sides of the opinion on Lewis make their love, dislove (yes new word I made up for this!), and biases known as well. It reaches a point of just silly IMHO.... it's a race and things happen. Had this been two of many other drivers nobody would have their claws out one way or another most likely. Some of you sound like Toto with the new rule he fabricated to justify that it was only the fault of Max. :laugh:

[Tazio]

https://twitter.com/Max33Verstappen/status/1416816722200469508?s=20

:stareup: :eek: :laugh:

[N. Jones]

Racing incident although I think Max cut in too sharp. Anyway, crazy race, I thought the sprint race was cool, sad to see George can't seem to cut into the top ten.

[truefan72]

I swear listening to Croft and Brundle worship Lewis is bad enough on any track, but downright enough to make you sick at the British GP. I especially liked the moaning over the penalty and how it had ruined Lewis's race. Then they ignore the rest of the race and rattle on about anything Lewis related, all with such sickening glee.

And as usual here on the forums, both sides of the opinion on Lewis make their love, dislove (yes new word I made up for this!), and biases known as well. It reaches a point of just silly IMHO.... it's a race and things happen. Had this been two of many other drivers nobody would have their claws out one way or another most likely. Some of you sound like Toto with the new rule he fabricated to justify that it was only the fault of Max. :laugh:

I'm not sure what race you were watching but they absolutely did the opposite. Go back and watch it again.
As the incident happened. Brundle initially blamed Hamilton. Croft when on a 5 minute diatribe about Hamilton's responsibility to leave room and what he should and should not have done.
They then went to Button, who predictably blamed Hamilton
Then they went to Hill who blamed Hamilton
Then back to croft and Brundle, who gave initial comments from RBR, and then Brundle started to rethink a bit
More comments from RBR, then almost 7 minutes later they go to Chandhock, who gave some detailed analysis and said at worst it was a racing incident.
Then they went back to Brundle who amended his statement and called it a racing incident.
Hill then changed his tune and said it was a racing incident but feared the stewards would give a penalty.
Button still insisted it was Hamilton's fault and went on about what he would have done.
Croft then went on a bit of speculation about what the stewards should punish Hamilton with and the fact that the WDC leader was taken out etc.
Ted Kravitz then intervened about the stewards decision, saying that these 4 guys are experienced and would not let emotion or the outcome of the incident factor into the actual incident itself. He went on about them not being emotional etc. (lol)

And then plenty of more comments from RBR and their woes.
As the race restarted, the 10sec penalty came down, to which Croft instantly got it wrong and thought it was a 10s stop and go, and went on in some glee about how Hamilton's race was ruined.
When he was corrected that it was only a 10s timed penalty, he then switched gears and talked about it being the 2nd least penalty they could have given. Several times.
When the radio message came through from Bono to Hamilton, they instantly (they meaning Croft and Kravitz) associated Hamilton's silence not with disappointment, or the notion that he probably knew some penalty was coming right or wrong, but instead with some kind of malicious glee and satisfaction.
Then throughout the race, they kept coming back to the RBR folks and Horner.
Croft throughout the race also kept mentioning in a not so subtle way how the incident closed up the championship and how RBR could not be happy etc.
Right after the race they gave Horner more of a platform to spew his nonsense.
At no point during the race, did they make any attempt to figure out Mercedes and Hamilton's side. No interview, no comments from Wolf, nothing.

So out of all that, you figured they were swooning over Hamilton? SMH

It's funny how Verstappen can go through the entire 2021 season chopping off folks and driving beyond aggressive.
While Hamilton has always driven with respect and fairness. He doesn't drive his opponent off the track, he doesn't weave around like crazy and most assuredly he has enough spatial awareness to know how to make a pass without relying on his opponent to chicken out. If he makes a mistake, he is usually the first to raise his hand and apologize. But all that means nothing to folks who can't wait to jump on him even in a 50/50 racing incident.

OK, I'm moving on to Hungary.

[airshifter]

I'm not sure what race you were watching but they absolutely did the opposite. Go back and watch it again.
As the incident happened. Brundle initially blamed Hamilton. Croft when on a 5 minute diatribe about Hamilton's responsibility to leave room and what he should and should not have done.
They then went to Button, who predictably blamed Hamilton
Then they went to Hill who blamed Hamilton
Then back to croft and Brundle, who gave initial comments from RBR, and then Brundle started to rethink a bit
More comments from RBR, then almost 7 minutes later they go to Chandhock, who gave some detailed analysis and said at worst it was a racing incident.
Then they went back to Brundle who amended his statement and called it a racing incident.
Hill then changed his tune and said it was a racing incident but feared the stewards would give a penalty.
Button still insisted it was Hamilton's fault and went on about what he would have done.
Croft then went on a bit of speculation about what the stewards should punish Hamilton with and the fact that the WDC leader was taken out etc.
Ted Kravitz then intervened about the stewards decision, saying that these 4 guys are experienced and would not let emotion or the outcome of the incident factor into the actual incident itself. He went on about them not being emotional etc. (lol)

And then plenty of more comments from RBR and their woes.
As the race restarted, the 10sec penalty came down, to which Croft instantly got it wrong and thought it was a 10s stop and go, and went on in some glee about how Hamilton's race was ruined.
When he was corrected that it was only a 10s timed penalty, he then switched gears and talked about it being the 2nd least penalty they could have given. Several times.
When the radio message came through from Bono to Hamilton, they instantly (they meaning Croft and Kravitz) associated Hamilton's silence not with disappointment, or the notion that he probably knew some penalty was coming right or wrong, but instead with some kind of malicious glee and satisfaction.
Then throughout the race, they kept coming back to the RBR folks and Horner.
Croft throughout the race also kept mentioning in a not so subtle way how the incident closed up the championship and how RBR could not be happy etc.
Right after the race they gave Horner more of a platform to spew his nonsense.
At no point during the race, did they make any attempt to figure out Mercedes and Hamilton's side. No interview, no comments from Wolf, nothing.

So out of all that, you figured they were swooning over Hamilton? SMH

It's funny how Verstappen can go through the entire 2021 season chopping off folks and driving beyond aggressive.
While Hamilton has always driven with respect and fairness. He doesn't drive his opponent off the track, he doesn't weave around like crazy and most assuredly he has enough spatial awareness to know how to make a pass without relying on his opponent to chicken out. If he makes a mistake, he is usually the first to raise his hand and apologize. But all that means nothing to folks who can't wait to jump on him even in a 50/50 racing incident.

OK, I'm moving on to Hungary.

I watched the race, and I'm fully aware that they had a temporary period where they couldn't deny the facts, nor censor the opinions of the other drivers that weighed in on the issue. In true form they recovered quickly and went about their display of love for all things Lewis.

Unlike random people on the internet, they have a professional reputation to consider, so they can't always turn a blind eye to everything they see.

And I'm fully aware that those random people on the internet can also claim the saintly status of having never raced and made a mistake, and only the opposition is ever a wrongdoer. :laugh:

All the drivers, even the greats, get it wrong sometimes. That's what happened to Lewis today.

[Fortitude]

Red Bull relieved: "Want to thank the track marshals and medical staff"
18-07-2021 22:34 | Updated: 18-07-2021 22:54
by GPblog.com

After the nasty crash Max Verstappen had to deal with on Sunday afternoon, he was actually sent directly to the hospital for tests and evaluation. There he was discharged later on Sunday evening. All tests were good.

Red Bull reacts with relief in a press release and is happy that Verstappen is not hurt. "Following an incident on the first lap at Copse Corner between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton during the British Grand Prix, we can confirm that Max Verstappen ran from his car and was immediately taken to Silverstone Circuit Medical Centre."

"Following an assessment by the doctors at Silverstone Circuit Medical Centre," Red Bull continued, "Max was taken by helicopter to Coventry Hospital for further tests and observation."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89522/red-bull-relieved-want-to-thank-the-track-marshals-and-medical-staff.html


Verstappen snipes at Hamilton: "Disrespectful and unsporting behaviour"
18-07-2021 18:54 | Updated: 18-07-2021 18:58
by GPblog.com

Max Verstappen doesn't have a good word to say about the party Lewis Hamilton threw after he won the British Grand Prix. The driver of Red Bull Racing calls it unsportsmanlike conduct of the number two in the world championship of Formula 1. Fortunately, Verstappen said that he himself did not suffer any physical damage from the crash.
"I'm happy to be okay," Verstappen opened on social media. "I'm very disappointed to have been knocked out like that. The penalty given doesn't help us and doesn't do justice to the dangerous move Lewis made on the track." The ten-second penalty was therefore far too little in Verstappen's opinion.

Despite the penalty, Hamilton took the win on his home track Silverstone. He celebrated that very extensively with his fans. "Watching the celebration while I'm still in the hospital is disrespectful and unsportsmanlike behaviour, but we continue..." Hamilton himself indicated afterwards that he was unaware that his Dutch title rival had gone to the hospital.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89483/verstappen-snipes-at-hamilton-disrespectful-and-unsporting-behaviour.html


Max Verstappen hits out at Lewis Hamilton over ‘disrespectful’ British Grand Prix celebrations
Verstappen wrote a message on Twitter while still in hospital criticising Hamilton for celebrating his victory at Silverstone

https://inews.co.uk/sport/formula-one/max-verstappen-hits-out-at-lewis-hamilton-over-disrespectful-british-grand-prix-celebrations-1109876?ITO=newsnow


Verstappen torches ‘disrespectful, unsportsmanlike’ Hamilton in angry tweet

https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport/formula-one/f1-2021-british-grand-prix-max-verstappen-blasts-lewis-hamilton-after-silverstone-crash-reaction-twitter/news-story/d757af718949a11edf5fc40613a5e382


Hamilton “went in too hot” in Verstappen collision – Ricciardo
2021 British Grand Prix
Posted on
18th July 2021, 18:3918th July 2021, 23:59 | Written by Keith Collantine

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/18/hamilton-went-in-too-hot-in-verstappen-collision-ricciardo/


Horner slams victorious Hamilton after Verstappen crashes out
Alan Baldwin
July 19 2021 02:45 AM

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner accused British Grand Prix winner Lewis Hamilton of putting title rival Max Verstappen’s life at risk with a ‘desperate’ collision that ended the Dutchman’s race yesterday.
Horner said Mercedes’ seven-times world champion, the most successful driver in the history of Formula One, made an amateur error in trying to pass at Copse corner on the opening lap and dismissed the Briton’s 99th career victory as ‘hollow’.
He said Hamilton, who did not feel he was to blame for what others also called a racing incident, had put a fellow competitor’s safety “in jeopardy”.
“We’re just lucky today, unfortunately after a 51-G accident, that there wasn’t somebody seriously hurt. What I’m most angry about is the lack of judgement, or the misjudgement and desperation,” he added.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/motor-sport/horner-slams-victorious-hamilton-after-verstappen-crashes-out-40666322.html


"Dangerous" Hamilton under siege from Red Bull after 51g Verstappen crash - GPFans F1 Recap
Sam Hall
Sunday 18 July 2021 23:30

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner has labelled Lewis Hamilton as “desperate” and “dangerous” after he sent title rival Max Verstappen spinning into the barriers and hospital with a 51g impact at F1's British Grand Prix on Sunday.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67623/dangerous-hamilton-under-siege-from-red-bull-after-51g-verstappen-crash-gpfans-f1-recap/


“The move was never on and resulted in a 51G impact for Max” – Red Bull’s Christian Horner
By Nick Golding
July 18, 2021

Due to being in hospital during the post-race interviews, Verstappen was unable to comment on the incident, however Team Principal Christian Horner did share his thoughts and where he believes the fault lies for the crash.
“This is an incredibly difficult way to end the British Grand Prix weekend and it goes without saying that we are all just thankful Max was able to walk away from the car, despite later being taken to hospital for precautionary checks, where he currently remains for observation. I have reviewed the footage many times and still cannot help but feel that putting a wheel up the inside at Copse, one of the fastest corners in this World Championship, was ill-judged and a huge risk by Lewis to both drivers.
“He was not significantly alongside Max as you can see from the point of contact, Lewis’ front left to Max’s right rear. The move was never on and resulted in a 51G impact for Max. We are in contact with Max and Jos and will provide an update later today. “

https://www.thecheckeredflag.co.uk/2021/07/the-move-was-never-on-and-resulted-in-a-51g-impact-for-max-red-bulls-christian-horner/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheCheckeredFlag+%28The+Check ered+Flag%29


Hamilton wins 'hollow' British Grand Prix after Verstappen collision
CGTN
Formula 1 11:05, 19-Jul-2021

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-07-19/Hamilton-wins-hollow-British-Grand-Prix-after-Verstappen-collision-12140RbHzVK/index.html


'Dangerous' Hamilton wins 'hollow' British Grand Prix after Verstappen collision
Issued on: 18/07/2021 - 21:30Modified: 18/07/2021 - 21:28

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210718-dangerous-hamilton-wins-hollow-british-grand-prix-after-verstappen-collision

[The Black Knight]

I watched the race, and I'm fully aware that they had a temporary period where they couldn't deny the facts, nor censor the opinions of the other drivers that weighed in on the issue. In true form they recovered quickly and went about their display of love for all things Lewis.

Unlike random people on the internet, they have a professional reputation to consider, so they can't always turn a blind eye to everything they see.

And I'm fully aware that those random people on the internet can also claim the saintly status of having never raced and made a mistake, and only the opposition is ever a wrongdoer. :laugh:

All the drivers, even the greats, get it wrong sometimes. That's what happened to Lewis today.

Lewis did get it wrong yesterday but to isolate blame on Lewis alone is not fair because Max also got it wrong. He could have gone much wider at Copse and given Hamilton more room. They both erred, and Max paid the price.

Otmar Szafnauer immediately called it a racing incident. Initially I thought Hamilton was to blame but then seeing that Verstappen didn't give him enough room as well in Chandhok's analysis made it clear to me it was a racing incident. While I fully understand your position that Hamilton got it wrong, I don't understand why you can't see that Max also got it wrong.

[Sulland]

What kind of sanctions does the jury have to their disposal?

in my books this is a very serious incident, where Verstappen easily could have been killed, had the car hit the wall in a different angle or Max`s head first if car flipped.

Then Hamilton almost did the same again passing Leclerc.

In my book Hamilton is getting to desperat to win, and is now reckless. And the penalty was imo to small. You need to think potential consequenses in these cornering speeds.

Hopefully cornerimg speed will go down with the 2022 cars.

[Nitrodaze]

I watched the race, and I'm fully aware that they had a temporary period where they couldn't deny the facts, nor censor the opinions of the other drivers that weighed in on the issue. In true form they recovered quickly and went about their display of love for all things Lewis.

Unlike random people on the internet, they have a professional reputation to consider, so they can't always turn a blind eye to everything they see.

And I'm fully aware that those random people on the internet can also claim the saintly status of having never raced and made a mistake, and only the opposition is ever a wrongdoer. :laugh:

All the drivers, even the greats, get it wrong sometimes. That's what happened to Lewis today.

It is quite interesting how your perception of events is at odds with what really happened. At the time of the event, the British media pointed their collective fingers squarely at Hamilton. The only real objective perspective of the incident came from Karun Chandhok only. The whole televised event was sickenly biased. The context of the event being a hard-fought world championship duel between Verstappen who was very noticeably weaving dangerously to defend his lead and Hamilton's reaction which l thought were too respectful, thus giving Verstappen plenty of opportunities to recover lost ground. Up to the inevitable moment of the crash that everyone really saw coming.

I did not see objectivity in the Skysport or Channel 4 televised commentary. Though there was a change of tune in the commentaries towards the end of the broadcast. It was clearly very begrudging and hollow praise for Hamilton. It was ugly to say the least.

There seem to be an air of all the media wanting Mercedes and Hamilton to lose this championship. They want to see that team beaten and Redbull was their hope that this would happen. The disproportionate reaction of the media influenced the stewards to do nothing other than giving some form of penalty for what was obvious to them was a mere racing incident. Especially since a similar tyre contact happened further down the grid with the driver sent off the track but luckily without a crash into the barriers. This, without a penalty of a warning. Where is the consistency l ask again. The penalty was an emotional reaction to the incident rather than a product of objective and detailed analysis of the incident.

Maybe, F1 needs a third independent body to be responsible for the stewarding of events. Clearly, F1M is not up to the task.

That said, nobody wants to see a driver sent crashing into the tyre walls. Grosjean's crash is still in the back of everyone's mind. Hence, we were all horrified by the incident. But it takes two to tango. The only fair way to look at the situation is to look at both drivers contributions to bringing about the situation.

The whole mentality about backing out is simply ridiculous. The lead driver ought to know that the chasing driver would not back out and should protect themselves from a crash, especially knowing they have more to lose if it goes wrong. That there is the difference between great drivers and mediocre drivers.

It is just stupid rolling the dice all in when one is already ahead.

[Nitrodaze]

What kind of sanctions does the jury have to their disposal?

in my books this is a very serious incident, where Verstappen easily could have been killed, had the car hit the wall in a different angle or Max`s head first if car flipped.

Then Hamilton almost did the same again passing Leclerc.

In my book Hamilton is getting to desperat to win, and is now reckless. And the penalty was imo to small. You need to think potential consequenses in these cornering speeds.

Hopefully cornerimg speed will go down with the 2022 cars.

Yea yea

[Nitrodaze]

10 seconds to take my rival out? Don't mind if I do. What a joke of a penalty.

I suppose he should have been banned from racing ever again. That would fit the crime perfectly don't you think.

[Nitrodaze]

Yep, its interesting that Lewis himself doesn't actually blame Max anymore and has backtracked a bit... he went from saying "he turned in to me" to.. "I was pretty far alongside him but I could see he wasn't going to back out, but then we went into the corner and we collided. Of course that's never the way I want to win a race or just in general to race, but these things do happen. I just hope he's OK. And I look forward to many more races."

After watching it a few times I also changed my mind from that Max was more fault so I guess Lewis and I are more on the same page than you are.

You are going with your emotional perception of what was said and also out of context as well rather than objectively looking at the incident and honestly judging what you think really happened. What you offer here is pure prejudice.

[joe1888cfc]

Can't wait to see Hamilton get put into a wall, and that's coming from a Brit.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Bagwan]

Can't wait to see Hamilton get put into a wall, and that's coming from a Brit.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Well , that's a pretty crappy thing to say .
Especially from a first-posting Brit .

Go away if that's all you have , and that's from a Canadian .

[joe1888cfc]

Well , that's a pretty crappy thing to say .
Especially from a first-posting Brit .

Go away if that's all you have , and that's from a Canadian .Well that's the way it is, the guys a wanker and could have killed his fellow professional yesterday.
If you don't like it you can do one!

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[The Black Knight]

Well that's the way it is, the guys a wanker and could have killed his fellow professional yesterday.
If you don't like it you can do one!

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Looks like somebody's had their first pint.

[joe1888cfc]

Looks like somebody's had their first pint.Not at all, just annoyed the way Sir Lewis Hamilton can get away with nearly killing a guy and still be allowed to win the race. Now he's the victim of course because of online abuse he received.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Corky]

Wheel to wheel aggressive racing. Two of the top competitors, doing what needs to be done to get the lead. No malice intended by either, just a racing incident. If it deserves a penalty by the steward’s determination, so be it. And, let’s be consistent.

[Bagwan]

"...I could see he wasn't going to back out..."

I could see that , too .

The main difference between the inside moves on Max and Chuck for Lewis was that Max kept Lewis tight going into the corner .
That was deliberate and reasonable , as it's meant to put the opponent out of position to make the corner .

Chuck was much wider on the way in , which allowed Lewis a line to pass tight across the apex , ahead .

[Bagwan]

Well that's the way it is, the guys a wanker and could have killed his fellow professional yesterday.
If you don't like it you can do one!

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Nice entrance , Joe .
You can have your opinion on Lewis , and it can be as vitriolic as you like , but suggesting he be "put into a wall" is going too far .

Happy to see a new poster , but try and keep it civil , eh ?

[joe1888cfc]

Nice entrance , Joe .
You can have your opinion on Lewis , and it can be as vitriolic as you like , but suggesting he be "put into a wall" is going too far .

Happy to see a new poster , but try and keep it civil , eh ?Thanks
I hope he goes in like a dart.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Bagwan]

Thanks
I hope he goes in like a dart.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

So , you can't even make that tiny adjustment ?
Sad .

[joe1888cfc]

So , you can't even make that tiny adjustment ?
Sad .Mate, I'm no gonna change my opinion. He's went back to the driving style of a desperate man like he was when rosberg was beating him, dangerous and reckless. He's one of the luckiest drivers to get into the game also.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Nitrodaze]

Well that's the way it is, the guys a wanker and could have killed his fellow professional yesterday.
If you don't like it you can do one!

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

We don't stand for airheads like you on this forum. Take your hatred elsewhere, we don't want it here.

[joe1888cfc]

Ooh your hard. https://media0.giphy.com/media/WUMKrzIPp9YzK/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7e4poz6udx9ety4o2z1ipttuj0iam 90v7fnp9yxvf&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Nitrodaze]

Mate, I'm no gonna change my opinion. He's went back to the driving style of a desperate man like he was when rosberg was beating him, dangerous and reckless. He's one of the luckiest drivers to get into the game also.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

You are entitled to your opinion. It may be as controversial as you want. But we have to draw the line on an outright show of hatred. Online abuse and hatred of sports personalities have to stop.

[Nitrodaze]

Ooh your hard. https://media0.giphy.com/media/WUMKrzIPp9YzK/giphy.gif?cid=349c9dd7e4poz6udx9ety4o2z1ipttuj0iam 90v7fnp9yxvf&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

I am sure Gervais would not appreciate you using his image for online hatred attacks. From another Brit, l am very disappointed in you mate.

[Nitrodaze]

Looks like somebody's had their first pint.

Probably had a pint and snort.

[joe1888cfc]

I am sure Gervais would not appreciate you using his image for online hatred attacks. From another Brit, l am very disappointed in you mate.Saying your hard is a hatred attack now? Ffs haha

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[joe1888cfc]

You are entitled to your opinion. It may be as controversial as you want. But we have to draw the line on an outright show of hatred. Online abuse and hatred of sports personalities have to stop.Would you have same opinion if max had died?
Few years ago that crash would have been fatal.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Nitrodaze]

Would you have same opinion if max had died?
Few years ago that crash would have been fatal.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Nobody wants a racing driver to die while racing which is why there are safety procedures and rules in F1. This championship battle between Redbull and Mercedes or Hamilton and Verstappen was gloves off this silverstone weekend. They have to start racing each other with a little more respect to avoid this situation from repeating itself. We are lucky this time, next time may not be so forgiving.

That said, please try to contain your feelings about the racing. It comes across in a very bad light.

I like to welcome you to this brilliant forum where you would find some very varied perspectives of the unfolding events of this seasons racing. Feel free to add yours to it.

[joe1888cfc]

Nobody wants a racing driver to die while racing which is why there are safety procedures and rules in F1. This championship battle between Redbull and Mercedes or Hamilton and Verstappen was gloves off this silverstone weekend. They have to start racing each other with a little more respect to avoid this situation from repeating itself. We are lucky this time, next time may not be so forgiving.

That said, please try to contain your feelings about the racing. It comes across in a very bad light.

I like to welcome you to this brilliant forum where you would find some very varied perspectives of the unfolding events of this seasons racing. Feel free to add yours to it.Thanks for the welcome. Still wonder what you opinion would be if it had been more serious. I think max is lucky to come away unscathed

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Bagwan]

Would you have same opinion if max had died?
Few years ago that crash would have been fatal.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

I'd like to ask you the opposite .
Would you ask for Lewis to be put in the wall if Max had not hit the wall at 52gs ?

You can hate him all you like , but it's a little hollow if you don't join in the discussion about the things he does .

My beef with you is only about your suggestion that he should be hurt or killed for his indiscretion .
Even Marko didn't go that far .

I've been here on this forum for over 20 years and that kind of suggestion has never been tolerated .
It just isn't cool here .


But , we're up for some spirited debate .
I just happen to agree with you that Hammy was to blame here , by the way .

[The Black Knight]

Would you have same opinion if max had died?
Few years ago that crash would have been fatal.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

I, for one, would have felt exactly the same if Max had died because I'm not leading with my emotions. Max dying would not have changed the fact that he could have given Lewis more room, nor would it change that Lewis missed the corner apex. The real question here is whether or not there was intent and it's pretty clear there was none from either driver but both were in the wrong, hence, a racing incident.

[joe1888cfc]

I'd like to ask you the opposite .
Would you ask for Lewis to be put in the wall if Max had not hit the wall at 52gs ?

You can hate him all you like , but it's a little hollow if you don't join in the discussion about the things he does .

My beef with you is only about your suggestion that he should be hurt or killed for his indiscretion .
Even Marko didn't go that far .

I've been here on this forum for over 20 years and that kind of suggestion has never been tolerated .
It just isn't cool here .


But , we're up for some spirited debate .
I just happen to agree with you that Hammy was to blame here , by the way .I didn't say he should be hurt or killed, you've put words in my mouth, I said I wanted him into the wall. How you got I wanted him hurt or killed from that I don't know. I'd never want to see someone hurt or killed even if it's the driver I dislike the most. I'd love to see him try another move and come off worse and go into the wall.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[joe1888cfc]

I, for one, would have felt exactly the same if Max had died because I'm not leading with my emotions. Max dying would not have changed the fact that he could have given Lewis more room, nor would it change that Lewis missed the corner apex. The real question here is whether or not there was intent and it's pretty clear there was none from either driver but both were in the wrong, hence, a racing incident.No idea how folk can blame max for thishttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210719/a17ae8506a1f34340c27c2d5afad5ffd.jpg

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[The Black Knight]

No idea how folk can blame max for thishttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210719/a17ae8506a1f34340c27c2d5afad5ffd.jpg

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Look at all the room on the left Max has compared with Lewis. That's why he shares his proportion of the blame.

[joe1888cfc]

Look at all the room on the left Max has compared with Lewis. That's why he shares his proportion of the blame.He left room, Lewis missed apex and understeered into max.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Nitrodaze]

Thanks for the welcome. Still wonder what you opinion would be if it had been more serious. I think max is lucky to come away unscathed

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

I wonder if you really know exactly how the crash occurred? If you watch the moment of the contact again, you would find that the accident occurred because they locked wheels. Verstappen's right rear was behind Hamilton's front left tyre. Verstappen rear moved into Hamilton's left tyre causing the spin and the tyre sheering of the car. It was not a case of Hamilton driving into Verstappen per se. They just raced too close without giving each other enough room.

The steering videos showed Hamilton at full right lock trying to turn round the corner. It also showed Verstappen make a small adjustment left and then turned right which locked the wheels of both cars.

So when you ask these sorts of questions, you should stop for a moment and ask what the other driver has done to prevent the accident. It was a shared fault by both drivers. That is what racing is about. It is not a Sunday drive to the shops. Any racing driver that is unprepared to fight at a corner has no business being in F1. The idea of backing off is for losers.

[Nitrodaze]

"...I could see he wasn't going to back out..."

I could see that , too .

The main difference between the inside moves on Max and Chuck for Lewis was that Max kept Lewis tight going into the corner .
That was deliberate and reasonable , as it's meant to put the opponent out of position to make the corner .

Chuck was much wider on the way in , which allowed Lewis a line to pass tight across the apex , ahead .

I thought he was already too committed to get out of it. Either way, it was going to be a crash

[joe1888cfc]

I wonder if you really know exactly how the crash occurred? If you watch the moment of the contact again, you would find that the accident occurred because they locked wheels. Verstappen's right rear was behind Hamilton's front left tyre. Verstappen rear moved into Hamilton's left tyre causing the spin and the tyre sheering of the car. It was not a case of Hamilton driving into Verstappen per se. They just raced too close without giving each other enough room.

The steering videos showed Hamilton at full right lock trying to turn round the corner. It also showed Verstappen make a small adjustment left and then turned right which locked the wheels of both cars.

So when you ask these sorts of questions, you should stop for a moment and ask what the other driver has done to prevent the accident. It was a shared fault by both drivers. That is what racing is about. It is not a Sunday drive to the shops. Any racing driver that is unprepared to fight at a corner has no business being in F1. The idea of backing off is for losers.

I've watched the crash many times, I've seen how it happens.
If the idea of backing off is for losers then there's gonna be crashes at the start of every grand Prix.
Lewis has backed off in races up till Silverstone and he should have again, he would have had ample opportunity to have another go at the pass.

[Nitrodaze]

No idea how folk can blame max for thishttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210719/a17ae8506a1f34340c27c2d5afad5ffd.jpg

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Unfortunately, that diagram does not describe the incident. Car 44 was further alongside car 33. It wasn't a tyre side to tyre side contact. Well, Hamilton has had enough of Verstappen's overly aggressive driving. As Vettel did in 2018.

I am not trying to say Hamilton is faultless in the accident. I am saying he had to make a point that being gentlemanly while racing in corners is no indication of weakness. To suggest that he should back off is unreasonable. It is a championship battle afterall.

[Nitrodaze]

I've watched the crash many times, I've seen how it happens.
If the idea of backing off is for losers then there's gonna be crashes at the start of every grand Prix.
Lewis has backed off in races up till Silverstone and he should have again, he would have had ample opportunity to have another go at the pass.

But there are and always so. It even happened on the first lap between Russell and Sainz l think.

[joe1888cfc]

Unfortunately, that diagram does not describe the incident. Car 44 was further alongside car 33. It wasn't a tyre side to tyre side contact.Was he?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210719/df703770f6036ed95e1bfcbe47ada678.jpg

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Bagwan]

I wonder if you really know exactly how the crash occurred? If you watch the moment of the contact again, you would find that the accident occurred because they locked wheels. Verstappen's right rear was behind Hamilton's front left tyre. Verstappen rear moved into Hamilton's left tyre causing the spin and the tyre sheering of the car. It was not a case of Hamilton driving into Verstappen per se. They just raced too close without giving each other enough room.

The steering videos showed Hamilton at full right lock trying to turn round the corner. It also showed Verstappen make a small adjustment left and then turned right which locked the wheels of both cars.

So when you ask these sorts of questions, you should stop for a moment and ask what the other driver has done to prevent the accident. It was a shared fault by both drivers. That is what racing is about. It is not a Sunday drive to the shops. Any racing driver that is unprepared to fight at a corner has no business being in F1. The idea of backing off is for losers.

I wonder if you really know how condescending your first line is , and that it invokes incendiary replies ?

The stewards found that Max had left room at the apex for Lewis .

Given that he has since proclaimed that he didn't think Max would back out of it kind of implies he expected contact , since he didn't chose to back out of it , either .
He perhaps should have said he expected Max to back out of it because he was right alongside , and stuck with that .

[joe1888cfc]

I wonder if you really know exactly how the crash occurred? If you watch the moment of the contact again, you would find that the accident occurred because they locked wheels. Verstappen's right rear was behind Hamilton's front left tyre. Verstappen rear moved into Hamilton's left tyre causing the spin and the tyre sheering of the car. It was not a case of Hamilton driving into Verstappen per se. They just raced too close without giving each other enough room.

The steering videos showed Hamilton at full right lock trying to turn round the corner. It also showed Verstappen make a small adjustment left and then turned right which locked the wheels of both cars.

So when you ask these sorts of questions, you should stop for a moment and ask what the other driver has done to prevent the accident. It was a shared fault by both drivers. That is what racing is about. It is not a Sunday drive to the shops. Any racing driver that is unprepared to fight at a corner has no business being in F1. The idea of backing off is for losers.Wonder why the stewards decided then that Hamilton was at fault then eh?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Nitrodaze]

I wonder if you really know how condescending your first line is , and that it invokes incendiary replies ?

The stewards found that Max had left room at the apex for Lewis .

Given that he has since proclaimed that he didn't think Max would back out of it kind of implies he expected contact , since he didn't chose to back out of it , either .
He perhaps should have said he expected Max to back out of it because he was right alongside , and stuck with that .

That was not my intention, l meant to ask an honest question.

With Hamilton's trajectory coming from close to the wall, there no way he could take any avoiding action. Especially as the steering video showed him at full rightward lock. There was enough outcry to force the stewards to give penalty. It was really a racing incident. Many that want to apportion the blame onesidedly do so from an emotional perspective. It was racing pure and true.

[Nitrodaze]

Wonder why the stewards decided then that Hamilton was at fault then eh?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

The visual image of the high speed crash into the wall instantly provoked enough reaction. I have a feeling that the stewards were taken by the graphic of the crash into the barrier in their decision to award a penalty. In this situation, how much penalty to award is perceived differently by all stakeholders involved. The stewards thought 10 seconds, Mercedes thought zero and Redbull thought a stop and go penalty of 10 seconds.


If you look at all of these perspectives, then you find that the teams were only concerned with point losses and how to limit the damage. A stop and go would have reduced the point losses for Redbull. Mercedes were of course concerned about catching up to Redbull in the constructors and driver championships. The stewards have to be seen to be doing something as declaring a racing incident would invoke the wraft of Redbull's very outspoken criticism.

It was a done deal that there was going to be some sort of punishment. Hence, it came as no surprise to Hamilton when he was informed.

[Nitrodaze]

Was he?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210719/df703770f6036ed95e1bfcbe47ada678.jpg

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

The right pic was just after the contact. You can clearly see the Redbull was beginning to spin. Have a look at Karun Chandhoks analysis of the incident on the skysport website.

[joe1888cfc]

The right pic wqas just after the contact. You can clearly see the Redbull was beginning to spin. Have a look at Karun Chandhoks analysis of the incident on the skysport website.I've watched karuns analysis on it. Doesn't mean I've got to agree with him. You think the British commentators are going to blame their golden boy at the British GP.
Sky sports F1 are all Lewis fanboys and constantly hanging out his arse.
At least button and Coulthard called it right saying it was Lewis's fault as did the stewards
But you keep arguing for Lewis, that's fine mate.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Nitrodaze]

Wheel to wheel aggressive racing. Two of the top competitors, doing what needs to be done to get the lead. No malice intended by either, just a racing incident. If it deserves a penalty by the steward’s determination, so be it. And, let’s be consistent.

Consistency has been the biggest challenge of the F1M Stewarding office. Their decisions as been as variable as the English weather. No two driver has experienced the same punishment for the same infraction. Also, they appear to have a springloaded compunction to award penalties. Especially according to the sensation of the incident.

I personally think this department of the F1 is not fit for the job of administrating the racing incidents of F1. A separate independent body should be set up to do this work.

[Nitrodaze]

I've watched karuns analysis on it. Doesn't mean I've got to agree with him. You think the British commentators are going to blame their golden boy at the British GP.
Sky sports F1 are all Lewis fanboys and constantly hanging out his arse.
At least button and Coulthard called it right saying it was Lewis's fault as did the stewards
But you keep arguing for Lewis, that's fine mate.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

No l am not solely arguing for Hamilton. I am arguing that it is a shared fault. You cannot absolve Verstappen from his share of the blame. In the previous corner, Hamilton gave him a wide berth at the corner to ensure they did not crash. It is not unreasonable for Hamilton to expect Verstappen to return the courtesy.

[joe1888cfc]

No l am not solely arguing for Hamilton. I am arguing that it is a shared fault. You cannot absolve Verstappen from his share of the blame. In the previous corner, Hamilton gave him a wide berth at the corner to ensure they did not crash. It is not unreasonable for Hamilton to expect Verstappen to return the courtesy.Hamilton didn't give a wide berth, he took a different line to get a better exit in my opinion.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Nitrodaze]

Hamilton didn't give a wide berth, he took a different line to get a better exit in my opinion.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

That is what a wide berth is matey.

[joe1888cfc]

That is what a wide berth is matey.Not to stay out of Max's way though and avoid a crash though was it matey, do u know racing?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Fortitude]

Verstappen Sr fans flames by claiming Hamilton should have been disqualified
GPFans Staff
Monday 19 July 2021 13:49 - Updated: 13:49

Max Verstappen's father Jos has poured fuel on the fire of the debate surrounding the Red Bull driver's British Grand Prix collision with Lewis Hamilton by claiming the seven-time F1 champion should have been disqualified.
Verstappen was released from Coventry hospital at 10pm on Sunday evening after being given the all-clear following a range of scans and tests after his 150mph, 51g impact with a tyre barrier at Silverstone's Copse corner.
The Dutch driver was left shaken up by the crash after he and Hamilton had banged wheels through the 180mph right-hander that sent him spearing off into the tyre wall.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67656/verstappen-sr-fans-flames-by-claiming-hamilton-should-have-been-disqualified/


Marko wants Hamilton banned, Horner slams 'desperate' Verstappen move
Ben Issatt 19 July 2021

https://insideracing.com/formula-1/14861-marko-wants-hamilton-banned-horner-slams-desperate-verstappen-move


Horner: Hamilton put a fellow driver in hospital
The Red Bull team principal believes Hamilton's collision with Max Verstappen at the British Grand Prix was a desperate move.

https://racingnews365.com/horner-hamilton-put-a-fellow-driver-in-hospital


Verstappen attacks ‘unsporting’ Hamilton after crashing out of British GP
July 19, 2021

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/07/verstappen-attacks-unsporting-hamilton-after-crashing-out-of-british-gp/


Formula One: Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton shift feud up a gear
War of words after collision at British Grand Prix
Published: July 19, 2021 11:16 Matthew Smith, Sports Editor

https://gulfnews.com/sport/motorsport/formula-one-max-verstappen-and-lewis-hamilton-shift-feud-up-a-gear-1.80754473


Christian Horner accuses Toto Wolff of 'unacceptable' actions after Max Verstappen crash
Christian Horner has hit out at his Mercedes counterpart after Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen crashed at the British Grand Prix.
By Claire Cottingham
PUBLISHED: 12:31, Mon, Jul 19, 2021 | UPDATED: 15:10, Mon, Jul 19, 2021

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1464577/Christian-Horner-Toto-Wolff-unacceptable-actions-Max-Verstappen-crash


Verstappen crash - Fan footage reveals ferocity of impact at Copse
Ewan Gale
Monday 19 July 2021 14:49 - Updated: 14:51

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67659/verstappen-crash-fan-footage-reveals-ferocity-of-impact-at-copse/


Lewis Hamilton's British GP celebration called 'disrespectful' by Max Verstappen after crash
Written By Joe Rivera

For Max Verstappen, Lewis Hamilton's celebrations were a load of bull.
Verstappen, current F1 driver's championship leader, landed in the hospital as a precautionary measure after a devastating wreck on Lap 1 of Sunday's 2021 British Grand Prix at Silverstone, much to the chagrin of Red Bull and F1 fans everywhere.

Hamilton went on to win the race and celebrated non-stop with fans at the track afterward — which Verstappen clearly had an issue with. The Red Bull racer took to social media to deliver a wreck of his own to the Mercedes racer:

"Glad I'm ok. Very disappointed with being taken out like this. The penalty given does not help us and doesn't do justice to the dangerous move Lewis made on track. Watching the celebrations while still in hospital is disrespectful and unsportsmanlike behavior but we move on," Verstappen's tweet reads.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/athletics/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-disrespectful-crash/69mdwkwzs27n146wgfe2y1g58

[Bagwan]

I didn't say he should be hurt or killed, you've put words in my mouth, I said I wanted him into the wall. How you got I wanted him hurt or killed from that I don't know. I'd never want to see someone hurt or killed even if it's the driver I dislike the most. I'd love to see him try another move and come off worse and go into the wall.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

From your response , I can see it was clearly not your intent , but it is how I understood your initial posts .

You said Max was nearly killed , and then said Lewis should be put in the wall .
Then , when I indicated that wasn't cool , you doubled down .


Perhaps you can understand why you were misunderstood .

Anyway , welcome to the forum , if I haven't said that yet .

[Nitrodaze]

Not to stay out of Max's way though and avoid a crash though was it matey, do u know racing?

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Good question, do you?

[Nitrodaze]

Verstappen Sr fans flames by claiming Hamilton should have been disqualified
GPFans Staff
Monday 19 July 2021 13:49 - Updated: 13:49

Max Verstappen's father Jos has poured fuel on the fire of the debate surrounding the Red Bull driver's British Grand Prix collision with Lewis Hamilton by claiming the seven-time F1 champion should have been disqualified.
Verstappen was released from Coventry hospital at 10pm on Sunday evening after being given the all-clear following a range of scans and tests after his 150mph, 51g impact with a tyre barrier at Silverstone's Copse corner.
The Dutch driver was left shaken up by the crash after he and Hamilton had banged wheels through the 180mph right-hander that sent him spearing off into the tyre wall.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67656/verstappen-sr-fans-flames-by-claiming-hamilton-should-have-been-disqualified/


Marko wants Hamilton banned, Horner slams 'desperate' Verstappen move
Ben Issatt 19 July 2021

https://insideracing.com/formula-1/14861-marko-wants-hamilton-banned-horner-slams-desperate-verstappen-move


Horner: Hamilton put a fellow driver in hospital
The Red Bull team principal believes Hamilton's collision with Max Verstappen at the British Grand Prix was a desperate move.

https://racingnews365.com/horner-hamilton-put-a-fellow-driver-in-hospital


Verstappen attacks ‘unsporting’ Hamilton after crashing out of British GP
July 19, 2021

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/07/verstappen-attacks-unsporting-hamilton-after-crashing-out-of-british-gp/


Formula One: Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton shift feud up a gear
War of words after collision at British Grand Prix
Published: July 19, 2021 11:16 Matthew Smith, Sports Editor

https://gulfnews.com/sport/motorsport/formula-one-max-verstappen-and-lewis-hamilton-shift-feud-up-a-gear-1.80754473


Christian Horner accuses Toto Wolff of 'unacceptable' actions after Max Verstappen crash
Christian Horner has hit out at his Mercedes counterpart after Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen crashed at the British Grand Prix.
By Claire Cottingham
PUBLISHED: 12:31, Mon, Jul 19, 2021 | UPDATED: 15:10, Mon, Jul 19, 2021

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1464577/Christian-Horner-Toto-Wolff-unacceptable-actions-Max-Verstappen-crash


Verstappen crash - Fan footage reveals ferocity of impact at Copse
Ewan Gale
Monday 19 July 2021 14:49 - Updated: 14:51

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67659/verstappen-crash-fan-footage-reveals-ferocity-of-impact-at-copse/


Lewis Hamilton's British GP celebration called 'disrespectful' by Max Verstappen after crash
Written By Joe Rivera

For Max Verstappen, Lewis Hamilton's celebrations were a load of bull.
Verstappen, current F1 driver's championship leader, landed in the hospital as a precautionary measure after a devastating wreck on Lap 1 of Sunday's 2021 British Grand Prix at Silverstone, much to the chagrin of Red Bull and F1 fans everywhere.

Hamilton went on to win the race and celebrated non-stop with fans at the track afterward — which Verstappen clearly had an issue with. The Red Bull racer took to social media to deliver a wreck of his own to the Mercedes racer:

"Glad I'm ok. Very disappointed with being taken out like this. The penalty given does not help us and doesn't do justice to the dangerous move Lewis made on track. Watching the celebrations while still in hospital is disrespectful and unsportsmanlike behavior but we move on," Verstappen's tweet reads.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/athletics/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-disrespectful-crash/69mdwkwzs27n146wgfe2y1g58

All the emotional outrage of Redbull and its affiliates.

Maybe, they should just take his racing licence so that Verstappen can win the title with ease.

These are the most shameless reactions l have ever witnessed in F1. You would almost think there has never been a crash resulting from wheel to wheel racing ever in F1 or any other motorsport.

As far as these clowns are concerned, no one should race Verstappen. You are all expected to back off and don't give him too much of a fight.

[joe1888cfc]

Good question, do you?I think the stewards do and their on same side as me

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[joe1888cfc]

From your response , I can see it was clearly not your intent , but it is how I understood your initial posts .

You said Max was nearly killed , and then said Lewis should be put in the wall .
Then , when I indicated that wasn't cool , you doubled down .


Perhaps you can understand why you were misunderstood .

Anyway , welcome to the forum , if I haven't said that yet .No problem, thanks mate. Nah I don't want anyone hurt or killed but I'd love to see him wreck his car next race

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Nitrodaze]

I think the stewards do and their on same side as me

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Not really, the stewards do not want Hamilton spearing into the wall like a dart. You are on your own side, make no mistake about that.

[joe1888cfc]

Not really, the stewards do not want Hamilton spearing int the wall like a dart. You are on your own side, make no mistake about that.Lol
Yeah I might be haha.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[The Black Knight]

All the emotional outrage of Redbull and its affiliates.

Maybe, they should just take his racing licence so that Verstappen can win the title with ease.

These are the most shameless reactions l have ever witnessed in F1. You would almost think there has never been a crash resulting from wheel to wheel racing ever in F1 or any other motorsport.

This is the reason I've been happy to see them lose for so long. When things don't go their way they throw the toys out of the pram. Like back in 2015 where they actually stated they were entitled to win and threw the toys out of the pram with Renault. Although their having to crawl back to Renault afterwards was delightful I've never forgotten their arrogance and undeserved sense of entitlement.

[Bagwan]

I get your points here , but it did feel just a touch icky to me with them smiling and spraying so much on the podium with his main rival in hospital .

I get that it's his 8th home GP win and all , but it wasn't a great look .

[Nitrodaze]

I get your points here , but it did feel just a touch icky to me with them smiling and spraying so much on the podium with his main rival in hospital .

I get that it's his 8th home GP win and all , but it wasn't a great look .

I don't see the problem with the podium celebration. After all, it was a truly brilliant drive to recover from adversity. There was good cause for Mercedes and Hamilton to celebrate. Besides, it is not as if somebody died. It was a crash and Verstappen got out on his own steam. If he was stretchered out of the circuit, then l would agree with you that it was a poor showing.

We were regularly updated on Verstappen's condition. And it was well known that he was not injured but winded. So l don't see what the fuss is about.

I can see it was a very bitter pill for Verstappen and Horner. But they too would have done exactly the same thing if it was the other way round.

In fact, l distinctly remember Verstappen celebrating after he took out Hamilton's front wing which neutralized Hamilton's challenge for the race win at the start of the season. I also distinctly remember Verstappen being asked about the incident that resulted in Hamilton losing his front wing and him responding that he was not aware that it happened.

This is the way it is with racing drivers. They are happy when things go their way. They are bitter when it doesn't

[Bagwan]

I don't see the problem with the podium celebration. After all, it was a truly brilliant drive to recover from adversity. There was good cause for Mercedes and Hamilton to celebrate. Besides, it is not as if somebody died. It was a crash and Verstappen got out on his own steam. If he was stretchered out of the circuit, then l would agree with you that it was a poor showing.

We were regularly updated on Verstappen's condition. And it was well known that he was not injured but winded. So l don't see what the fuss is about.

I didn't say it wasn't a great drive , and never insinuated he didn't deserve to be there on the podium .

But , surely you can see how some who thought Hamilton deserved the penalty might see it .

[Bagwan]

I don't see the problem with the podium celebration. After all, it was a truly brilliant drive to recover from adversity. There was good cause for Mercedes and Hamilton to celebrate. Besides, it is not as if somebody died. It was a crash and Verstappen got out on his own steam. If he was stretchered out of the circuit, then l would agree with you that it was a poor showing.

We were regularly updated on Verstappen's condition. And it was well known that he was not injured but winded. So l don't see what the fuss is about.

I can see it was a very bitter pill for Verstappen and Horner. But they too would have done exactly the same thing if it was the other way round.

In fact, l distinctly remember Verstappen celebrating after he took out Hamilton's front wing which neutralized Hamilton's challenge for the race win at the start of the season. I also distinctly remember Verstappen being asked about the incident that resulted in Hamilton losing his front wing and him responding that he was not aware that it happened.

This is the way it is with racing drivers. They are happy when things go their way. They are bitter when it doesn't

Ten minutes of editing on one post makes it a little difficult to reply .

Just post again , and you won't confuse me .

[Nitrodaze]

Ten minutes of editing on one post makes it a little difficult to reply .

Just post again , and you won't confuse me .

Sorry Baggie, Lots of thoughts pouring out of my head.

[Bagwan]

So , the stretcher is the line on this one ?
You serious , here ?

I said it looked a little icky , not outright shameful , so don't be upset , Max fan .

[Nitrodaze]

So , the stretcher is the line on this one ?
You serious , here ?

I said it looked a little icky , not outright shameful , so don't be upset , Max fan .

What would you have expected Hamilton and Mercedes to do? I don't have a problem with Verstappen being unhappy about it. It tells me he is still hungry to win and is coming back fighting. I want that and respect his gusto and determination.

If Hamilton had done anything different, it would have been properly icky.

[truefan72]

Lewis did get it wrong yesterday but to isolate blame on Lewis alone is not fair because Max also got it wrong. He could have gone much wider at Copse and given Hamilton more room. They both erred, and Max paid the price.

Otmar Szafnauer immediately called it a racing incident. Initially I thought Hamilton was to blame but then seeing that Verstappen didn't give him enough room as well in Chandhok's analysis made it clear to me it was a racing incident. While I fully understand your position that Hamilton got it wrong, I don't understand why you can't see that Max also got it wrong.

Yup...Those were my thoughts as the incident happened. Both drivers could have given more room and backed down and neither did. Thus a racing incident.
The fact that they gave Hamilton a penalty annoyed me. But it was what it was.
I've seen a bunch of First lap incidents that were not even looked at by stewards or deemed a racing incident in the past 2 years and to me this was about as 50/50 as it gets.
I've not absolved Hamilton of his 50% blame, it would be nice to see others acknowledge Verstappen's role, ( including the off-track repass in abbey and weaving)

[truefan72]

It is quite interesting how your perception of events is at odds with what really happened. At the time of the event, the British media pointed their collective fingers squarely at Hamilton. The only real objective perspective of the incident came from Karun Chandhok only. The whole televised event was sickenly biased. The context of the event being a hard-fought world championship duel between Verstappen who was very noticeably weaving dangerously to defend his lead and Hamilton's reaction which l thought were too respectful, thus giving Verstappen plenty of opportunities to recover lost ground. Up to the inevitable moment of the crash that everyone really saw coming.

I did not see objectivity in the Skysport or Channel 4 televised commentary. Though there was a change of tune in the commentaries towards the end of the broadcast. It was clearly very begrudging and hollow praise for Hamilton. It was ugly to say the least.

There seem to be an air of all the media wanting Mercedes and Hamilton to lose this championship. They want to see that team beaten and Redbull was their hope that this would happen. The disproportionate reaction of the media influenced the stewards to do nothing other than giving some form of penalty for what was obvious to them was a mere racing incident. Especially since a similar tyre contact happened further down the grid with the driver sent off the track but luckily without a crash into the barriers. This, without a penalty of a warning. Where is the consistency l ask again. The penalty was an emotional reaction to the incident rather than a product of objective and detailed analysis of the incident.

Maybe, F1 needs a third independent body to be responsible for the stewarding of events. Clearly, F1M is not up to the task.

That said, nobody wants to see a driver sent crashing into the tyre walls. Grosjean's crash is still in the back of everyone's mind. Hence, we were all horrified by the incident. But it takes two to tango. The only fair way to look at the situation is to look at both drivers contributions to bringing about the situation.

The whole mentality about backing out is simply ridiculous. The lead driver ought to know that the chasing driver would not back out and should protect themselves from a crash, especially knowing they have more to lose if it goes wrong. That there is the difference between great drivers and mediocre drivers.

It is just stupid rolling the dice all in when one is already ahead.

well said

[Firstgear]

Did anyone else here catch the interview after the race between Croft and Horner? I'm pretty sure I heard Horner refer to Lewis as an 8 time World Champion. I think he meant to say 8 Time British GP champion, but that's not what I heard. Bit of a Freudian slip? Has he already given up on this years challenge? Or did I not hear him correctly?

[truefan72]

just add him to the ignore list and make your life happier.
The guy is an obvious hater or troll or both. lol

[Nitrodaze]

Did anyone else here catch the interview after the race between Croft and Horner? I'm pretty sure I heard Horner refer to Lewis as an 8 time World Champion. I think he meant to say 8 Time British GP champion, but that's not what I heard. Bit of a Freudian slip? Has he already given up on this years challenge? Or did I not hear him correctly?

Yes l heard him say that also. He meant an eight-time Silverstone winner.

[truefan72]

All the emotional outrage of Redbull and its affiliates.

Maybe, they should just take his racing licence so that Verstappen can win the title with ease.

These are the most shameless reactions l have ever witnessed in F1. You would almost think there has never been a crash resulting from wheel to wheel racing ever in F1 or any other motorsport.

As far as these clowns are concerned, no one should race Verstappen. You are all expected to back off and don't give him too much of a fight.

Lol. That has been the red Bull Way and why, absolutely loathe Horner and Marko.
I remember all the shenanigans when they were on top of the world winning 4 straight.
And Vettel was their golden boy. He literally could do no wrong and effectively ran a 1 car team with Webber getting slagged constantly.
Then Mercedes dominance started and they cried like babies and threatened to leave the championship.
They threw Renault under the bus and For a half second, Ricciardo was the guy so they shoved Vettel to the side.
Then when Max came he was the new golden boy and were back to a 1 car team.
Verstappen up to this year (and including some questionable maneuvers) has been consistently an over aggressive and borderline dangerous driver.
I've said it before and will always believe that Horner is a joke of a team manager. He runs the outfit poorly and never, ever accepts personal responsibility or blames his golden boy driver (Vettel, then Max) for anything. Even Multi 21 or Turkey incident, or Baku, he cannot find any way to be partial.
Then he feigns surprise when Ricciardo decides to leave, or when Vettel left.
Marko on the other hand is a borderline sociopath IMO.

[joe1888cfc]

I don't see the problem with the podium celebration. After all, it was a truly brilliant drive to recover from adversity. There was good cause for Mercedes and Hamilton to celebrate. Besides, it is not as if somebody died. It was a crash and Verstappen got out on his own steam. If he was stretchered out of the circuit, then l would agree with you that it was a poor showing.

We were regularly updated on Verstappen's condition. And it was well known that he was not injured but winded. So l don't see what the fuss is about.

I can see it was a very bitter pill for Verstappen and Horner. But they too would have done exactly the same thing if it was the other way round.

In fact, l distinctly remember Verstappen celebrating after he took out Hamilton's front wing which neutralized Hamilton's challenge for the race win at the start of the season. I also distinctly remember Verstappen being asked about the incident that resulted in Hamilton losing his front wing and him responding that he was not aware that it happened.

This is the way it is with racing drivers. They are happy when things go their way. They are bitter when it doesn't

Although Danny Riccardo didn't know his condition until interview after the race, but Lewis knew before the race ended or before podium?

[Nitrodaze]

Although Danny Riccardo didn't know his condition until interview after the race, but Lewis knew before the race ended or before podium?

Yep, he asked and was told he was ok. He knew of Verstappen's condition. Though he was a bit surprised he had to go to the hospital for further checks. But they all saw the Sky interview with Dr Ian Roberts, where he clearly stated that it was a precautionary visit to the hospital.

[Lutherg17]

Just my 2c. But why does this crash between Max and Lewis reminds me of the 2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix crash between Max and Ricardo, the only difference is that Lewis had managed to get alone side Max going into Cobbs.

This is not the first time that Max tried to impeded on the faster car following from behind. Luring in the faster car from behind to take the wrong racing line by creating an obvious gap, then reducing that gap to impede their speed hoping that they would back out while traveling at high speed may be asking for too much.

The response to this racing incident is amazing and appalling to say the least. The fans and F1 wanted wheel to wheel racing. Now that they have it, they are up in arms over a racing incident in the First Lap. This racing incident was in the making from previous races. Whoever thinks that both wheel to wheel racing and racing incidents can go without each other is clearly watching the wrong sport!

I wonder if the same response to this racing incident would have occurred if other drivers or F1 champions were involved.

[Zico]

You are going with your emotional perception of what was said and also out of context as well rather than objectively looking at the incident and honestly judging what you think really happened. What you offer here is pure prejudice.


Yes, you are absolutely correct that my emotions certainly come into it but I'd expect most here would also draw a line at least somewhere?
For me crossing that line is leaving a wheel inside on one of the fastest corners of the track when you know he isn't going to pull out and risking someone's life... just to beat a poxy meaningless record. Yes, there is a championship at stake and motorsport is dangerous and all that but there has to be enough respect among drivers not to do seriously endanger others lives like that.

Sure, bang wheels and show the young upstart that you won't be bullied... but Copse and at these speeds is not the place to do it.

I'd settled on 60/40 Lewis's fault but said its still obviously a racing incident yet that somehow equals prejudice? By what definition of the word?

If I had been involved in something like that, I doubt I'd be feeling too great about what had happened, I think my celebrations would have been very muted by comparison, at very least I would have spoken to Max immediately and tbh I can't get my head round his wild celebrations after what really is a hollow victory... then you come on here calling it a masterclass, Senna would have been proud etc etc.. you really have to be trolling to get a reaction, or at least I hope you are... as it doesn't paint you in a very good light otherwise.

The FIA ought to have a serious think about introducing a more severe sanction for colliding with your championship rival before someone gets seriously injured or killed.
This isnt a battle any more.. this is war and a mere 10 sec penalty is surely much too lenient and therefore tempting especially when emotions and personal feeling are running so high. This could get really messy indeed.

[Fortitude]

Lewis Hamilton WAS to blame for 180mph crash with Max Verstappen at Silverstone, insists former F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone... who insists 'the punishment did not fit the crime' - but now thinks Brit will WIN the world title after regaining 'edge'
By Jonathan McEvoy for the Daily Mail
Published: 22:30, 19 July 2021 | Updated: 22:47, 19 July 2021

Bernie Ecclestone believes Lewis Hamilton was to blame for the 180mph crash that sent Max Verstappen off to hospital during Sunday’s British Grand Prix.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-9804219/Lewis-Hamilton-blame-Max-Verstappen-crash-British-Grand-Prix-claims-Bernie-Ecclestone.html


That Lewis Hamilton-Max Verstappen Crash Still Doesn't Feel Right
The biggest moment of the Formula 1 season so far left a sour taste.
By Erik Shilling
Today 3:15PM

Lewis Hamilton won the British Grand Prix on Sunday, passing Charles Leclerc three laps from the checkered flag to take the lead and the win. But there was more than a hint of controversy to this one, after a Hamilton made contact with championship-points leader Max Verstappen on the opening lap and sent him crashing out of the race.
Advertisement
You can watch video of that incident here, if you haven’t seen it a million times already. Hamilton’s front-left tire made contact with Verstappen’s right-rear tire, sending Verstappen spinning into the tire wall on one of the highest-speed corners at Silverstone. Verstappen was sent to the hospital for a check but was determined to be fine.
In real time, Formula 1 commentators David Croft and Martin Brundle mostly determined that the incident was just that, a normal racing incident that perhaps couldn’t have been avoided. Race stewards took a different view, giving Hamilton a 10-second penalty for causing the collision, which didn’t stop him from winning the race.

https://jalopnik.com/that-lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-crash-still-doesnt-f-1847319113


Jos Verstappen hits out at Wolff: He doesn't have to call anymore
Max Verstappen is doing well following his heavy crash at the British GP, but father Jos is anything but pleased with Mercedes and team principal Toto Wolff.

It looks as though the relationship between Jos Verstappen and Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff has taken a hit following the crash between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton at the British GP.
The Dutch driver crashed heavily into the barriers at Copse during Sunday's race after being touched from behind by the Mercedes driver. While Hamilton went on to take victory, Max was taken to a local hospital for further tests and the incident has left Jos angry over the whole ordeal.
"You don't celebrate your victory with such euphoria if your colleague is still in hospital," Verstappen told F1-Insider. "And as for Wolff, we've had good relationship for years, he kept calling and flattering us. I think everyone knows why.
"He didn't contact us yesterday. Now he no longer needs to call."
Although Jos is angry about how Mercedes have handled the incident, he did state that Max is doing well after being released from hospital late Sunday night.
"Max is doing well so far, he's ok," Jos added. "It was an extremely hard impact, Max was breathless. That's why he deliberately didn't want to say anything at the beginning in order to catch his breath first.
"Max owned the corner. Lewis accepted there would be a collision in a very fast and dangerous corner. He should have left more space. That's what he did later with Charles Leclerc at the same spot."

https://racingnews365.com/jos-verstappen-hits-out-at-wolff-he-doesnt-have-to-call-anymore


Italian media: 'Bad guy' Hamilton rewarded in the end

There are two things being discussed in Italy after the British GP: the battle between Max Verstappen/Lewis Hamilton and Charles Leclerc's phenomenal performance. The press in Italy couldn't help but see parallels to Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost.

While Charles Leclerc's sparkling display at the British GP didn't go unnoticed amongst the Italian press, it's no surprise the high-speed incident between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton garnered much of the attention.
The Briton took the chequered flag, passing Leclerc in the closing stages of the race after the Ferrari driver led from the opening lap. That was made possible by Verstappen and Hamilton's collision at Copse corner, which drew parallels to the famous incidents involving Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost in Japan all those years ago.
"Hamilton takes out Verstappen and then wins his home race to reopen the battle for the championship," was the Corriere dello Sport headline. "The duel reminds us of the tough battle between Senna and Prost in the 1990 Japanese GP.
"It's true that F1's living room is full of 'bad guys', and in this case the 'bad guy' Lewis was rewarded with victory."

https://racingnews365.com/italian-media-bad-guy-hamilton-rewarded-in-the-end


Red Bull considering appeal over Lewis Hamilton's British Grand Prix penalty
Updated / Monday, 19 Jul 2021 18:38

Max Verstappen's Red Bull team are considering a protest against Lewis Hamilton's punishment in Sunday's controversial British Grand Prix, which they believe to be too lenient.
Hamilton was dealt a 10-second penalty following his 190mph collision with Verstappen at Silverstone.
But while the Red Bull driver was forced to retire, his Mercedes rival raced to victory, slashing the championship deficit from 33 points to only eight.
Mercedes are now just three points behind Red Bull in the constructors' standings.
According to the PA news agency, Red Bull are reviewing whether to lodge an appeal against the stewards' verdict.
Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said: "There are rights that are available to us. We will look at it and talk it through."

https://www.rte.ie/sport/motorsport/2021/0719/1236080-red-bull-consider-appeal-for-harsher-hamilton-penalty/


Daniel Ricciardo criticises Lewis Hamilton over Max Verstappen crash at British Grand Prix
The McLaren driver has given his assessment of the controversial incident at Silverstone.
By Felix Keith
PUBLISHED: 17:00, Mon, Jul 19, 2021 | UPDATED: 17:00, Mon, Jul 19, 2021

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1464734/Daniel-Ricciardo-Lewis-Hamilton-Max-Verstappen-crash-British-Grand-Prix


MASI BELIEVES “HAMILTON WAS PREDOMINANTLY TO BLAME” FOR THE CRASH WITH VERSTAPPEN
By Dalila Zanardo

Race director Michael Masi has agreed with the stewards in the evaluation of the first-lap accident between Verstappen and Hamilton, considering the Brit predominantly at fault.

https://www.formulanerds.com/news/masi-believes-hamilton-was-predominantly-to-blame-for-the-crash-with-verstappen/?nowprocket=1

[Nitrodaze]

Yes, you are absolutely correct that my emotions certainly come into it but I'd expect most here would also draw a line at least somewhere?
For me crossing that line is leaving a wheel inside on one of the fastest corners of the track when you know he isn't going to pull out and risking someone's life... just to beat a poxy meaningless record. Yes, there is a championship at stake and motorsport is dangerous and all that but there has to be enough respect among drivers not to do seriously endanger others lives like that.

Sure, bang wheels and show the young upstart that you won't be bullied... but Copse and at these speeds is not the place to do it.

I'd settled on 60/40 Lewis's fault but said its still obviously a racing incident yet that somehow equals prejudice? By what definition of the word?

If I had been involved in something like that, I doubt I'd be feeling too great about what had happened, I think my celebrations would have been very muted by comparison, at very least I would have spoken to Max immediately and tbh I can't get my head round his wild celebrations after what really is a hollow victory... then you come on here calling it a masterclass, Senna would have been proud etc etc.. you really have to be trolling to get a reaction, or at least I hope you are... as it doesn't paint you in a very good light otherwise.

The FIA ought to have a serious think about introducing a more severe sanction for colliding with your championship rival before someone gets seriously injured or killed.
This isnt a battle any more.. this is war and a mere 10 sec penalty is surely much too lenient and therefore tempting especially when emotions and personal feeling are running so high. This could get really messy indeed.

Why not, a tougher sanction for racing for the championship should be imposed. All drivers should also be instructed to keep a two meters distance from each other on the track for covid reasons. A single file from start to the end of the race should also be mandatory.

Just take some time to read your post. Maybe you should take up watching horse racing instead of F1. It is becoming too much for Zico.

[Nitrodaze]

Lewis Hamilton WAS to blame for 180mph crash with Max Verstappen at Silverstone, insists former F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone... who insists 'the punishment did not fit the crime' - but now thinks Brit will WIN the world title after regaining 'edge'
By Jonathan McEvoy for the Daily Mail
Published: 22:30, 19 July 2021 | Updated: 22:47, 19 July 2021

Bernie Ecclestone believes Lewis Hamilton was to blame for the 180mph crash that sent Max Verstappen off to hospital during Sunday’s British Grand Prix.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-9804219/Lewis-Hamilton-blame-Max-Verstappen-crash-British-Grand-Prix-claims-Bernie-Ecclestone.html


That Lewis Hamilton-Max Verstappen Crash Still Doesn't Feel Right
The biggest moment of the Formula 1 season so far left a sour taste.
By Erik Shilling
Today 3:15PM

Lewis Hamilton won the British Grand Prix on Sunday, passing Charles Leclerc three laps from the checkered flag to take the lead and the win. But there was more than a hint of controversy to this one, after a Hamilton made contact with championship-points leader Max Verstappen on the opening lap and sent him crashing out of the race.
Advertisement
You can watch video of that incident here, if you haven’t seen it a million times already. Hamilton’s front-left tire made contact with Verstappen’s right-rear tire, sending Verstappen spinning into the tire wall on one of the highest-speed corners at Silverstone. Verstappen was sent to the hospital for a check but was determined to be fine.
In real time, Formula 1 commentators David Croft and Martin Brundle mostly determined that the incident was just that, a normal racing incident that perhaps couldn’t have been avoided. Race stewards took a different view, giving Hamilton a 10-second penalty for causing the collision, which didn’t stop him from winning the race.

https://jalopnik.com/that-lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-crash-still-doesnt-f-1847319113


Jos Verstappen hits out at Wolff: He doesn't have to call anymore
Max Verstappen is doing well following his heavy crash at the British GP, but father Jos is anything but pleased with Mercedes and team principal Toto Wolff.

It looks as though the relationship between Jos Verstappen and Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff has taken a hit following the crash between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton at the British GP.
The Dutch driver crashed heavily into the barriers at Copse during Sunday's race after being touched from behind by the Mercedes driver. While Hamilton went on to take victory, Max was taken to a local hospital for further tests and the incident has left Jos angry over the whole ordeal.
"You don't celebrate your victory with such euphoria if your colleague is still in hospital," Verstappen told F1-Insider. "And as for Wolff, we've had good relationship for years, he kept calling and flattering us. I think everyone knows why.
"He didn't contact us yesterday. Now he no longer needs to call."
Although Jos is angry about how Mercedes have handled the incident, he did state that Max is doing well after being released from hospital late Sunday night.
"Max is doing well so far, he's ok," Jos added. "It was an extremely hard impact, Max was breathless. That's why he deliberately didn't want to say anything at the beginning in order to catch his breath first.
"Max owned the corner. Lewis accepted there would be a collision in a very fast and dangerous corner. He should have left more space. That's what he did later with Charles Leclerc at the same spot."

https://racingnews365.com/jos-verstappen-hits-out-at-wolff-he-doesnt-have-to-call-anymore


Italian media: 'Bad guy' Hamilton rewarded in the end

There are two things being discussed in Italy after the British GP: the battle between Max Verstappen/Lewis Hamilton and Charles Leclerc's phenomenal performance. The press in Italy couldn't help but see parallels to Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost.

While Charles Leclerc's sparkling display at the British GP didn't go unnoticed amongst the Italian press, it's no surprise the high-speed incident between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton garnered much of the attention.
The Briton took the chequered flag, passing Leclerc in the closing stages of the race after the Ferrari driver led from the opening lap. That was made possible by Verstappen and Hamilton's collision at Copse corner, which drew parallels to the famous incidents involving Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost in Japan all those years ago.
"Hamilton takes out Verstappen and then wins his home race to reopen the battle for the championship," was the Corriere dello Sport headline. "The duel reminds us of the tough battle between Senna and Prost in the 1990 Japanese GP.
"It's true that F1's living room is full of 'bad guys', and in this case the 'bad guy' Lewis was rewarded with victory."

https://racingnews365.com/italian-media-bad-guy-hamilton-rewarded-in-the-end


Red Bull considering appeal over Lewis Hamilton's British Grand Prix penalty
Updated / Monday, 19 Jul 2021 18:38

Max Verstappen's Red Bull team are considering a protest against Lewis Hamilton's punishment in Sunday's controversial British Grand Prix, which they believe to be too lenient.
Hamilton was dealt a 10-second penalty following his 190mph collision with Verstappen at Silverstone.
But while the Red Bull driver was forced to retire, his Mercedes rival raced to victory, slashing the championship deficit from 33 points to only eight.
Mercedes are now just three points behind Red Bull in the constructors' standings.
According to the PA news agency, Red Bull are reviewing whether to lodge an appeal against the stewards' verdict.
Red Bull team principal Christian Horner said: "There are rights that are available to us. We will look at it and talk it through."

https://www.rte.ie/sport/motorsport/2021/0719/1236080-red-bull-consider-appeal-for-harsher-hamilton-penalty/


Daniel Ricciardo criticises Lewis Hamilton over Max Verstappen crash at British Grand Prix
The McLaren driver has given his assessment of the controversial incident at Silverstone.
By Felix Keith
PUBLISHED: 17:00, Mon, Jul 19, 2021 | UPDATED: 17:00, Mon, Jul 19, 2021

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1464734/Daniel-Ricciardo-Lewis-Hamilton-Max-Verstappen-crash-British-Grand-Prix


MASI BELIEVES “HAMILTON WAS PREDOMINANTLY TO BLAME” FOR THE CRASH WITH VERSTAPPEN
By Dalila Zanardo

Race director Michael Masi has agreed with the stewards in the evaluation of the first-lap accident between Verstappen and Hamilton, considering the Brit predominantly at fault.

https://www.formulanerds.com/news/masi-believes-hamilton-was-predominantly-to-blame-for-the-crash-with-verstappen/?nowprocket=1

As usual horse crap.

[F1nKS]

After watching all the replays and seeing some technical analysis. Hamilton in desperation made a mistake and actually had a bad line. Had Verstappen gave way, Hamilton probably goes wide and Verstappen comes back and takes the place back. It should be a learning experience for Verstappen. He need to think more strategically, not every battle (corner) has to be fought and won. Choose the fight that you know (or have a high probability) of winning.

Survive to Drive is going to eat this up.

[Mia 01]

The fight between Lewis and MAX WILL BE INTERESTING TO FOLLOW THE REST OF THE YEAR.
This is F1 not soccer.

[Fortitude]

Marko reveals cost of damage to Verstappen's Red Bull
19th July 2021, ‎19‎:‎30

The Red Bull advisor has given an update on Max Verstappen's condition and how much money it will take to repair the Dutchman's RB16B.

Helmut Marko has revealed that Formula 1's budget cap will hurt Red Bull more than normal as around 750,000 euros will be needed to repair the damage on Max Verstappen's car.
Verstappen hit the tyre barriers hard on the opening lap of the British Grand Prix after colliding with championship rival Lewis Hamilton at Copse. It's a move that has proved very costly in the title race and for the Red Bull crew who will have a lot of work to do to get Verstappen's RB16B ready for the Hungarian GP.
"As things stand, it is about three quarters of a million euros, although the engine situation is not quite clear yet," Marko told RTL. "But especially in times of the cost cap, it is a significant amount and hurts us."

Whilst a brand-new chassis is likely to be needed for the next race in Budapest, Honda F1 technical director Toyoharu Tanabe is optimistic that the damage to the engine may be less than initially feared.
"When I first saw the images of the car being lifted, I thought there was a lot of damage," said Tanabe. But in reality it seems that the damage is less than what we first saw. However, the actual damage cannot be known from its appearance when it is installed in the car.
"So we would like to send it back to HRD in Sakura and check it before making a decision."
Marko says Verstappen is doing well with some pain in his neck. The championship leader was released from hospital on Sunday night after precautionary checks.
"He [Verstappen] is doing surprisingly well," said Marko. "He was accompanied by his father yesterday, and for safety reasons, they spent the night in a hotel.
"Max has only a bit of neck pain, but other than that, fortunately everything is okay. You will see a very motivated Max in Hungary."

https://racingnews365.com/marko-reveals-cost-of-damage-to-verstappens-wrecked-car


Lewis Hamilton put Max Verstappen's life at risk fumes Red Bull boss - 'Got away with it'
Red Bull boss Christian Horner furious after Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton incident at the British Grand Prix.
By Claire Cottingham
PUBLISHED: 00:53, Tue, Jul 20, 2021 | UPDATED: 06:45, Tue, Jul 20,

Red Bull boss Christian Horner believes the seven-time world champion Lewis Hamilton drove in a way that directly put Max Verstappen's life at risk, as the two collided dramatically on the opening lap of the British Grand Prix.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1464731/Lewis-Hamilton-Max-Verstappen-life-risk-fumes-Red-Bull-boss


Lewis Hamilton WAS to blame for 180mph crash with Max Verstappen at Silverstone, insists former F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone... who says 'the punishment did not fit the crime' - but now thinks Brit will WIN the world title after regaining 'edge'
• Max Verstappen was sent crashing into the tyre wall at Corpse corner at 180mph
• The Dutchman escaped unscathed while Lewis Hamilton went on to win the race
• Former F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone believes Lewis Hamilton was to blame
• Hamilton's victory cut Verstappen's world championship lead to eight points
By Jonathan McEvoy for the Daily Mail
Published: 22:30, 19 July 2021 | Updated: 00:48, 20 July 2021

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-9804219/Lewis-Hamilton-blame-Max-Verstappen-crash-British-Grand-Prix-claims-Bernie-Ecclestone.html

COMMENT

Charlieboy16, Cheshunt,
Whose ever fault it was what it does tell you is that Lewis is getting increasingly desperate in his efforts to retain the world title. A risky pass on the first lap?

simon1956, Guildford, United Kingdom,
Doesn't really matter at the end of the day, the Red Bull is consistently faster and Hamilton has used up his share of luck, with Max failing to finish in Baku and Silverstone, potentially missing out on 50 points

hokzen, Herefordshire, United Kingdom,
Of course he was to blame. That's the reason why he go 10 second penalty. He hates Lewis anyway. If he was the race director he would have taken all the points from Lewis.

Godzzkitchen, Warrington, United Kingdom,
Bernie Ecclestone hates Lewis so he's always going to have something negative to say, he's a Brit so why isn't he supporting him? Makes you wonder why he dislikes Lewis so much.

Pisi, Exeter, United Kingdom,
I am absolutely shocked Old Man Bernie has something negative to say about Lewis. ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED, I tell you LOL.

simon1956, Guildford, United Kingdom,
Of course he was to blame, the fact that he caught the rear tyre of Max's car proved that he was nearly a car lengths behind, he had plenty of room on the inside of the bend and was the one who had the best view of what was going on rather than relying on a glimpse in the mirror, it was obvious that Max would turn in, he had to to take the bend. The other thing is if course that after being given the time penalty, neither Hamilton or Mercedes seemed surprised, or protested about it, they knew it was coming, probably just hoping the stewards would be lenient as it was the first lap

MartinvanH, Amsterdam, Netherlands,
Everybody with some brains in his head knows it was 100% Hamiltons blame. All the people with some F1 experience say the same 100% Hamiltons blame All the FIA stewards say the same 100% Hamiltons blame. Only the lier Hamilton and some lost fools here say it is the other way round !

Kingmaker2, Nottingham, United Kingdom,
How can a 10 second penalty be enough when het put a man in hospital, severely impacted another teams budget for the repairs to that car, no doubt Red Bull will have penalties to change engines and gear boxes and gained undeserved points. He must be banned for a race or two but wont be.

D0nald_Dump, Dublin, Ireland,
Lewis legacy is now forever tainted, like Schumacher with Damon. Worse, Lewis tried to injure his competitor on purpose. That is the only conclusion you can have if you make a nasty move like that. And celebrating like that when you have seen the high speed crash up close, what an horrid display from Lewis and der Toto. Shame on you sir Lewis.

Josh Daviss, Levenshulme Manchester, United Kingdom,
The thing is Hamilton has a history of doing this. Alex Albon comes to mind to whom Hamilton apologised for taking him out ruining his chance of a rare podium. Funny how Hamilton has blamed Verstappen this time for a similar move.


Lewis Hamilton Crashes Into Alex Albon - Brazil 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlJBNZGmmrk


ALBON COMPLETE UNCENSORED RADIO AFTER CLASH WITH HAMILTON!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT7YAxyK1Ww

[The Black Knight]

Just my 2c. But why does this crash between Max and Lewis reminds me of the 2018 Azerbaijan Grand Prix crash between Max and Ricardo, the only difference is that Lewis had managed to get alone side Max going into Cobbs.

This is not the first time that Max tried to impeded on the faster car following from behind. Lowering in the faster car from behind to take the wrong racing line by creating an obvious gap, then reducing that gap to impede their speed hoping that they would back out while traveling at high speed may be asking for too much.

The response to this racing incident is amazing and appalling to say the least. The fans and F1 wanted wheel to wheel racing. Now that they have it, they are up in arms over a racing incident in the First Lap. This racing incident was in the making from previous races. Whoever thinks that both wheel to wheel racing and racing incidents can go without each other is clearly watching the wrong sport!

I wonder if the same response to this racing incident would have occurred if other drivers or F1 champions were involved.

I had thought about this but Riccardo was much further back. However, there is an emerging tendency of Max to lure drivers into a do or die situation and expect them to back out 100% of the time. Senna used to do the same and drivers lets him get away with it. Hamilton had let Max get away with it in Imola, Spain and Baku, he had to lay the marker down somewhere. I don't think Max will learn any lesson from this, especially with Christian Horner and Helmut Marko by his side. They over hype and pamper their drivers, just look at Vettel now. There was a time he was regarded as one of the greats of the sport and another amateur spin coming out of Luffield this weekend - he has really been found out over the last couple of years. Either Max will be found out eventually or he'll keep making mistakes like this until teams regard him as too high a risk to hire.


Yes, you are absolutely correct that my emotions certainly come into it but I'd expect most here would also draw a line at least somewhere?
For me crossing that line is leaving a wheel inside on one of the fastest corners of the track when you know he isn't going to pull out and risking someone's life... just to beat a poxy meaningless record. Yes, there is a championship at stake and motorsport is dangerous and all that but there has to be enough respect among drivers not to do seriously endanger others lives like that.

Sure, bang wheels and show the young upstart that you won't be bullied... but Copse and at these speeds is not the place to do it.

I'd settled on 60/40 Lewis's fault but said its still obviously a racing incident yet that somehow equals prejudice? By what definition of the word?

If I had been involved in something like that, I doubt I'd be feeling too great about what had happened, I think my celebrations would have been very muted by comparison, at very least I would have spoken to Max immediately and tbh I can't get my head round his wild celebrations after what really is a hollow victory... then you come on here calling it a masterclass, Senna would have been proud etc etc.. you really have to be trolling to get a reaction, or at least I hope you are... as it doesn't paint you in a very good light otherwise.

The FIA ought to have a serious think about introducing a more severe sanction for colliding with your championship rival before someone gets seriously injured or killed.
This isnt a battle any more.. this is war and a mere 10 sec penalty is surely much too lenient and therefore tempting especially when emotions and personal feeling are running so high. This could get really messy indeed.

The highlighted is the important part of your post. Why should Max get any special dispensation because he isn't going to pull out? Why should Lewis pull out? Look how alongside Lewis was of Max here - he is as side by side as you can get without actually being ahead, his front wing a few centimetres behind Max's:

https://i.ibb.co/8szt00B/maxlewis.png

There is no racing driver in their right mind would pull out of that move. If you do you may as well go home. The only mistake Lewis made was that he under-steered into him but if you think a 7 time WDC or any driver worth their salt is going to pull out of trying an over take there you're genuinely watching the wrong sport. Max would have sent one up the inside of Lewis if roles were reversed.

[denkimi]

It's good to see the usual hamilton fanboys are still around to defend him, whatever happens.

To me it's pretty simple. It's a racing accident, caused by hamilton getting some red mist on his visor and acting stupidly aggressive.

There was nothing to gain here for hamilton. There was no way he was going to pass verstappen here.
Best case he compromises his exit speed and ends up behind verstappen anyway, and most likely gets passed by leclerc. Worst case he takes them both out.

It was a completely stupid and useless move. Something i would expect from mazepin, not from a 7 times world champion.

And his penalty was not even a penalty. He gained more than 30 seconds by being able to fix his wing during the red flag. Without it he should have been completely at the back of the pack, and he would have had no chance to win here. So only 10 seconds is laughable, it should have been a 10 seconds stop and go, just to compensate for the time he had gained.

[The Black Knight]

It's good to see the usual hamilton fanboys are still around to defend him, whatever happens.

To me it's pretty simple. It's a racing accident, caused by hamilton getting some red mist on his visor and acting stupidly aggressive.

There was nothing to gain here for hamilton. There was no way he was going to pass verstappen here.
Best case he compromises his exit speed and ends up behind verstappen anyway, and most likely gets passed by leclerc. Worst case he takes them both out.

It was a completely stupid and useless move. Something i would expect from mazepin, not from a 7 times world champion.

And his penalty was not even a penalty. He gained more than 30 seconds by being able to fix his wing during the red flag. Without it he should have been completely at the back of the pack, and he would have had no chance to win here. So only 10 seconds is laughable, it should have been a 10 seconds stop and go, just to compensate for the time he had gained.

Side by side and you say there was no way he was going to pass him? Take off the blinkers or go watch Golf.

[denkimi]

Side by side and you say there was no way he was going to pass him? Take off the blinkers or go watch Golf.
Side by side, that why he clipped the rear wheel with his front spoiler. :lol:

But i don't expect any kind of unbiassed view from you anyway. Hamilton could throw nails across the track or shoot his opponents tyres with a gun and you would still defend him.

[Nitrodaze]

It's good to see the usual hamilton fanboys are still around to defend him, whatever happens.

To me it's pretty simple. It's a racing accident, caused by hamilton getting some red mist on his visor and acting stupidly aggressive.

There was nothing to gain here for hamilton. There was no way he was going to pass verstappen here.
Best case he compromises his exit speed and ends up behind verstappen anyway, and most likely gets passed by leclerc. Worst case he takes them both out.

It was a completely stupid and useless move. Something i would expect from mazepin, not from a 7 times world champion.

And his penalty was not even a penalty. He gained more than 30 seconds by being able to fix his wing during the red flag. Without it he should have been completely at the back of the pack, and he would have had no chance to win here. So only 10 seconds is laughable, it should have been a 10 seconds stop and go, just to compensate for the time he had gained.

Ha ha Denkimi you are such a clown. Or high on something.

[Tazio]

Lol. That has been the red Bull Way and why, absolutely loathe Horner and Marko.
I remember all the shenanigans when they were on top of the world winning 4 straight.
And Vettel was their golden boy. He literally could do no wrong and effectively ran a 1 car team with Webber getting slagged constantly.
Thanks for reminding me, I forgot how much I disliked Horner and crew, back in the days of "Fettel". :sailor:
Ends up Seb is a pretty good dude, :cool:

[Nitrodaze]

Side by side, that why he clipped the rear wheel with his front spoiler. :lol:

But i don't expect any kind of unbiassed view from you anyway. Hamilton could throw nails across the track or shoot his opponents tyres with a gun and you would still defend him.

Get your facts straight buddy. Go check out the slow-mo video of the incident on the skysport website. Then come back and tell us what you think.

[Fortitude]

Lewis Hamilton & Max Verstappen crash: Brit's comments back in 2018 are awkward now
By Harneet Singh Sethi
Published: 20 Jul 2021, 12:50

C&P extract;

After him and Max Verstappen contrived a collision, both blamed it on the other, but only one could blame and celebrate, and that was Hamilton. The majority of F1 fans, however, believe it was the Brit who caused the collision.

Following his sensational win, Hamilton said: "[On Saturday] I went down the left-hand side and I really regretted not going for the gap that was down the right-hand side and so I dummied him, moved to the left and then moved to the right for that gap.

"I was pretty far up alongside him but I then could see he wasn't going to back-out and we went into the corner and then we collided. Of course, that's never the way I ever want to win a race or just in general to race but these things do happen."

Quite measured words, aren’t they?

However, the balance of the words are outweighed by the underlying contradiction. Reason being, what happened to Verstappen here is very similar to what happened with Valtteri Bottas in 2018, with the driver causing the collision being Sebastian Vettel - who Hamilton was fighting at the time for the title.

Of course, neither did Vettel win the race - he finished fifth, while Bottas finished seventh - nor did Hamilton lose the championship, but here’s what he said of the clash, as per Sky Sports: "Ultimately, if you ruin someone's race because of a mistake, and you're able to come back to a place ahead of the other person, that penalty doesn't outweigh your mistake. You shouldn't be able to finish ahead of the other person if you take them out of the race. It's like you're violating the speed, but just let you go."

Obviously, nothing wrong with contradicting yourself, but this is elite sport and there’s only so many times you cut your own words to smithereens as per your convenience.

Read MORE here;

https://www.givemesport.com/1724603-lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-crash-brits-comments-back-in-2018-are-awkward-now


Lewis Hamilton issued 'statement of intent' to Max Verstappen but FIA may have to step in
Damon Hill believes Lewis Hamilton sent Max Verstappen a clear message during the British Grand Prix.
By Claire Cottingham
PUBLISHED: 10:32, Tue, Jul 20, 2021 | UPDATED: 12:57, Tue, Jul 20, 2021

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1464999/Lewis-Hamilton-statement-intent-Max-Verstappen-FIA-F1-news


JULY 20, 2021
Hamilton eyed victory or death in British GP says press

Lewis Hamilton charged for "victory or death" before title rival Max Verstappen was tipped into a 51G crash at Silverstone's Copse corner on Sunday.
That is the view of one international media outlet in the highly-charged aftermath of the lap-1 incident that is now the major talking point in the British GP aftermath.

Former F1 driver Ralf Schumacher told Sky Deutschland that Hamilton's move was a "complete misjudgement" and "not a typical overtaking manoeuvre".

"If Lewis had stayed there, he would have pushed Max off the track. Instead, he pulled back and touched his rear wheel.

"Everyone knows from karting that you can't do that. It's damn dangerous to do it at that place," Schumacher added.

1997 world champion Jacques Villeneuve told one outlet: "I think the pressure to not be beaten by Max at his home track was so great that he subconsciously accepted the risk.

I think he would have taken his foot off the gas in any other race," he added.

The Spanish sports daily Marca agrees.

"It was either victory or death for Hamilton at Silverstone, who said 'Basta!' to Verstappen on the first lap," the newspaper editorial reads.
"The Englishman refused to take his foot off the accelerator in front of his home crowd, and his doggedness led to a brutal accident for his Dutch rival."

Suddeutsche Zeitung correspondent Elmar Brummer opined: "Victory number 99 is perhaps the most questionable of Hamilton's career. And one of the most important.

"The tone of the entire championship may change now."
And Luigi Perna, of La Gazzetta dello Sport, surmised: "Hamilton made it clear that he is ready to do anything for the championship."

Corriere della Sera's Daniele Sparisci reported: "At Copse corner, Hamilton grabbed victory from Leclerc and also introduced us to his dark side."
Italian blogger Leo Turrini said: "I admire Lewis immensely, but a veteran doesn't make that kind of move at Copse on the first lap.

"The end result was Verstappen in hospital and a bad joke of a penalty. After all, you can win in many ways, but certain gestures cross lines and have consequences.

"I don't think Max will forget this," he added.

Finally, former Marussia car designer Igor Ermilin told Izvestia news agency: "Hamilton is guilty, but the stewards spared him.

"A ten second penalty for such an action is ridiculous. He threatened Max's life and caused serious damage to his car.
"Lewis should have been disqualified," he insisted.


https://www.grandprix.com/news/hamilton-eyed-victory-or-death-in-british-gp-says-press.html


Ecclestone hits out at stewards: 'That penalty was not justified'
20-07-2021 08:25 | Updated: 20-07-2021 09:04
by GPblog.com

Bernie Ecclestone has been critical about the punishment for Lewis Hamilton. According to the former CEO of Formula 1 the Briton should have received a much higher penalty for his collision with Max Verstappen.

The whole Formula 1 world is in an uproar because of the incident of Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen. The two collided during the British Grand Prix. However, while Verstappen was in hospital, Hamilton celebrated his victory. So what went wrong in giving the penalty?

''In the old days we would have said it was one of those things, a racing incident. It was clear that everyone was doing his best to win the championship. But if the stewards needed to get involved then they should have given Lewis more than a 10-second penalty. It should have been 30 seconds,'' Ecclestone said to Sportsmail.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89625/ecclestone-hits-out-at-stewards-that-penalty-was-not-justified.html?campname=highlighted-content&camplink=inarticle1


Red Bull hire lawyer to investigate action against Hamilton says Marko
20-07-2021 10:50 | Updated: 20-07-2021 11:01
by GPblog.com

Helmut Marko has suggested Red Bull Racing have hired a lawyer to investigate the punishment of Lewis Hamilton. Helmut Marko told Austria's Kronen Zeitung. Marko is still angry after the incident.

Red Bull Racing and Max Verstappen were in such good shape prior to the British Grand Prix. In both championships they had a large margin, but with the retirement of Verstappen that lead has disappeared completely. Red Bull is now investigating whether a heavier penalty can still be imposed on Hamilton, with the help of a lawyer.

''He [the lawyer] has to investigate what we can do in such a situation within the frameworks of sports law,'' the Austrian argues. ''It was fortunate that nothing serious happened to Max. The car, and possibly the engine, are broken. You can't let that happen. A suspension (for Hamilton) would be justified."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89636/red-bull-hires-lawyer-to-investigate-action-against-hamilton.html

[Nitrodaze]

Lewis Hamilton & Max Verstappen crash: Brit's comments back in 2018 are awkward now
By Harneet Singh Sethi
Published: 20 Jul 2021, 12:50

C&P extract;

After him and Max Verstappen contrived a collision, both blamed it on the other, but only one could blame and celebrate, and that was Hamilton. The majority of F1 fans, however, believe it was the Brit who caused the collision.

Following his sensational win, Hamilton said: "[On Saturday] I went down the left-hand side and I really regretted not going for the gap that was down the right-hand side and so I dummied him, moved to the left and then moved to the right for that gap.

"I was pretty far up alongside him but I then could see he wasn't going to back-out and we went into the corner and then we collided. Of course, that's never the way I ever want to win a race or just in general to race but these things do happen."

Quite measured words, aren’t they?

However, the balance of the words are outweighed by the underlying contradiction. Reason being, what happened to Verstappen here is very similar to what happened with Valtteri Bottas in 2018, with the driver causing the collision being Sebastian Vettel - who Hamilton was fighting at the time for the title.

Of course, neither did Vettel win the race - he finished fifth, while Bottas finished seventh - nor did Hamilton lose the championship, but here’s what he said of the clash, as per Sky Sports: "Ultimately, if you ruin someone's race because of a mistake, and you're able to come back to a place ahead of the other person, that penalty doesn't outweigh your mistake. You shouldn't be able to finish ahead of the other person if you take them out of the race. It's like you're violating the speed, but just let you go."

Obviously, nothing wrong with contradicting yourself, but this is elite sport and there’s only so many times you cut your own words to smithereens as per your convenience.

Read MORE here;

https://www.givemesport.com/1724603-lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-crash-brits-comments-back-in-2018-are-awkward-now


Lewis Hamilton issued 'statement of intent' to Max Verstappen but FIA may have to step in
Damon Hill believes Lewis Hamilton sent Max Verstappen a clear message during the British Grand Prix.
By Claire Cottingham
PUBLISHED: 10:32, Tue, Jul 20, 2021 | UPDATED: 12:57, Tue, Jul 20, 2021

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1464999/Lewis-Hamilton-statement-intent-Max-Verstappen-FIA-F1-news


JULY 20, 2021
Hamilton eyed victory or death in British GP says press

Lewis Hamilton charged for "victory or death" before title rival Max Verstappen was tipped into a 51G crash at Silverstone's Copse corner on Sunday.
That is the view of one international media outlet in the highly-charged aftermath of the lap-1 incident that is now the major talking point in the British GP aftermath.

Former F1 driver Ralf Schumacher told Sky Deutschland that Hamilton's move was a "complete misjudgement" and "not a typical overtaking manoeuvre".

"If Lewis had stayed there, he would have pushed Max off the track. Instead, he pulled back and touched his rear wheel.

"Everyone knows from karting that you can't do that. It's damn dangerous to do it at that place," Schumacher added.

1997 world champion Jacques Villeneuve told one outlet: "I think the pressure to not be beaten by Max at his home track was so great that he subconsciously accepted the risk.

I think he would have taken his foot off the gas in any other race," he added.

The Spanish sports daily Marca agrees.

"It was either victory or death for Hamilton at Silverstone, who said 'Basta!' to Verstappen on the first lap," the newspaper editorial reads.
"The Englishman refused to take his foot off the accelerator in front of his home crowd, and his doggedness led to a brutal accident for his Dutch rival."

Suddeutsche Zeitung correspondent Elmar Brummer opined: "Victory number 99 is perhaps the most questionable of Hamilton's career. And one of the most important.

"The tone of the entire championship may change now."
And Luigi Perna, of La Gazzetta dello Sport, surmised: "Hamilton made it clear that he is ready to do anything for the championship."

Corriere della Sera's Daniele Sparisci reported: "At Copse corner, Hamilton grabbed victory from Leclerc and also introduced us to his dark side."
Italian blogger Leo Turrini said: "I admire Lewis immensely, but a veteran doesn't make that kind of move at Copse on the first lap.

"The end result was Verstappen in hospital and a bad joke of a penalty. After all, you can win in many ways, but certain gestures cross lines and have consequences.

"I don't think Max will forget this," he added.

Finally, former Marussia car designer Igor Ermilin told Izvestia news agency: "Hamilton is guilty, but the stewards spared him.

"A ten second penalty for such an action is ridiculous. He threatened Max's life and caused serious damage to his car.
"Lewis should have been disqualified," he insisted.


https://www.grandprix.com/news/hamilton-eyed-victory-or-death-in-british-gp-says-press.html


Ecclestone hits out at stewards: 'That penalty was not justified'
20-07-2021 08:25 | Updated: 20-07-2021 09:04
by GPblog.com

Bernie Ecclestone has been critical about the punishment for Lewis Hamilton. According to the former CEO of Formula 1 the Briton should have received a much higher penalty for his collision with Max Verstappen.

The whole Formula 1 world is in an uproar because of the incident of Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen. The two collided during the British Grand Prix. However, while Verstappen was in hospital, Hamilton celebrated his victory. So what went wrong in giving the penalty?

''In the old days we would have said it was one of those things, a racing incident. It was clear that everyone was doing his best to win the championship. But if the stewards needed to get involved then they should have given Lewis more than a 10-second penalty. It should have been 30 seconds,'' Ecclestone said to Sportsmail.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89625/ecclestone-hits-out-at-stewards-that-penalty-was-not-justified.html?campname=highlighted-content&camplink=inarticle1


Red Bull hire lawyer to investigate action against Hamilton says Marko
20-07-2021 10:50 | Updated: 20-07-2021 11:01
by GPblog.com

Helmut Marko has suggested Red Bull Racing have hired a lawyer to investigate the punishment of Lewis Hamilton. Helmut Marko told Austria's Kronen Zeitung. Marko is still angry after the incident.

Red Bull Racing and Max Verstappen were in such good shape prior to the British Grand Prix. In both championships they had a large margin, but with the retirement of Verstappen that lead has disappeared completely. Red Bull is now investigating whether a heavier penalty can still be imposed on Hamilton, with the help of a lawyer.

''He [the lawyer] has to investigate what we can do in such a situation within the frameworks of sports law,'' the Austrian argues. ''It was fortunate that nothing serious happened to Max. The car, and possibly the engine, are broken. You can't let that happen. A suspension (for Hamilton) would be justified."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89636/red-bull-hires-lawyer-to-investigate-action-against-hamilton.html


Sorry buddy, you can put out this stuff for as long as you want. We know what happened. 50:50 racing incident.

How you don't find it odd that a team is seeking legal advice for a racing incident tells me you are so consumed with your preference of perception of events, objectivity is pointless as far as you are concerned.

You are simply demonstrating "Politically Correct Prejudice" by attempting to whip up hatred with your posts. It is subtle but very clear to its purpose. We see it and don't buy it.

[Nitrodaze]

Hamilton didn't give a wide berth, he took a different line to get a better exit in my opinion.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

https://e1.365dm.com/21/07/768x432/skysports-lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen_5452856.jpg?20210720101325

Through Woodcote corner, we see here that Verstappen did not make any effort to take the apex of the corner which would have been the fastest line through the corner. But swings well out to cut off Hamilton. This is ok , it is racing. This is the sort of racing that continued next into Corpse corner where the accident occurred. So please be fair about it.

When racing hard, accidents do occur. That is just inevitable and essentially what racing is about.

At Corpse Corner, this is how Martin Brundle (https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096/12359579/martin-brundle-analysing-and-explaining-the-lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-british-gp-collision) of Skysport saw it. Please note this quote was from the skysport website.

Hamilton was momentarily largely alongside before he bailed out of the throttle. Max turned in feeling the corner was his and they touched, spinning him towards the barrier at high speed, finally stopping with the force of 51G. Thank goodness the car did not start rolling over, or a wheel bouncing into the marshal or even crowd enclosures.

Essentially, Verstappen turns in which caused the contact and the inevitable accident. Now, the main point here is that Hamilton did not drive into Verstappen, but placed his car in such a position to force Verstappen to take a wider line through the corner which would have messed up his line coming out of the corner. And Hamilton would have certainly used the powerful straight-line speed of the Mercedes to get ahead before the sequence of corners where the Mercedes was weaker than the Redbull. That said, There is a rumour that Redbull has evidence that Hamilton went in that corner hot and would not have made it through the corner. It kind of contradicts the fact that Hamilton backed off his speed and did not follow Verstappen of the track out of control. But we shall hear more about this without a doubt.


I think it is as clear as day that both drivers were equally at fault. Verstappen with 33 points ahead in the championship standings, should have been thinking about not jeopardizing his lead in the championship, by taking a precautionary wider line around the corner. He made a very poor judgement and risked it all which resulted in an accident. And he goes on social media claiming he was hit by Hamilton. Which was also clearly not the case.

Hamilton on the other hand had nothing to lose. He had a right to be right where he was, even though being there puts the onus on Verstappen to either cause an accident or compromise his line through the corner. It was a brilliant strategy but a risky one. The outcome fell to Verstappen on how it would turn out. But it was equally risky for Hamilton as he risked a tyre puncture and/or front wing damage which may have ruined his chance of winning the race.

But it was simply brilliant racing. The aggressive defending, the stalking and the pouncing to launch the attack. It was simply fantastic to see these two brilliant drivers duel. It was hard racing not for the faint-hearted. As it took the fight to a point of mutual desperation. We could see Verstappen's desperation to maintain the lead through the fast corner and straights where the Mercedes was simply mighty. And we could see Hamilton's desperation to get ahead before Verstappen gets to the sequence of tight corners where the Redbull was mighty.

That said l remain happy that Verstappen got out of it unscathed.

[denkimi]

Get your facts straight buddy. Go check out the slow-mo video of the incident on the skysport website. Then come back and tell us what you think.
and there's the other hammi fanboy. i was already wondering wat took you so long.


great to see how some people can be such big fans of someone they are able to ignore the reality. i wish i could live such a simple life too.

[Nitrodaze]

and there's the other hammi fanboy. i was already wondering wat took you so long.


great to see how some people can be such big fans of someone they are able to ignore the reality. i wish i could live such a simple life too.

Yea yea

[The Black Knight]

Yea yea

Just ignore- some people don't understand racing

[Fortitude]

Brundle: Red Bull claim to have damning Hamilton data
20th July 2021, ‎13‎:‎45

The Formula 1 pundit has revealed Red Bull have evidence that Lewis Hamilton entered Copse corner on lap one significantly quicker than any other time in the race.

Formula 1 pundit Martin Brundle has revealed that Red Bull have data to prove that Lewis Hamilton entered Copse corner on the first lap faster than any other occasion during the British Grand Prix.
Hamilton collided with title rival Max Verstappen on the opening lap at Copse at high-speed which resulted in the Red Bull driver retiring from the race. Red Bull are yet to rule out an appeal and Brundle says the team may have new evidence which would be needed to make an appeal to the FIA.
"Red Bull felt it was a professional foul, an intentional accident from Hamilton," Brundle wrote in his post-race Sky Sports F1 column. "They were incandescent, their potential world champion was bruised, their car expensively wrecked in this new cost cap era, and with possible grid penalties to come from any engine and ancillary damage.

"They would score zero points from the race and both championship leads would be seriously eroded. I am told by Red Bull there is data to prove Lewis was significantly faster into Copse than at any other time and he would not have made the corner without running wide, and inevitably contacting Max.
"Presumably, that will be made publicly available and if Red Bull feel they have 'new evidence' they may well make an appeal to the FIA as to their perceived degree of fault and leniency regarding Hamilton."
Brundle thinks the 10-second time penalty for Hamilton means the stewards saw it as a 70/30 incident with the blame, going towards the seven-time world champion. He also feels that a collision between Hamilton and Verstappen was inevitable.

Read MORE here;

https://racingnews365.com/brundle-red-bull-claim-to-have-damning-hamilton-data


Can Red Bull's lawsuit against Mercedes succeed?
20-07-2021 16:47 | Updated: 20-07-2021 17:06
by GPblog.com

Recently news emerged that Red Bull Racing is taking legal action against Mercedes regarding the time penalty the Briton received for his incident with Max Verstappen in the first lap of the Silverstone Grand Prix. But on what grounds can Red Bull Racing take this legal action? What are the possibilities?

Helmut Marko had been quite clear earlier and Christian Horner was also adamant: "If you put a driver in hospital and you still win the GP, even with the penalty, it doesn't feel like a penalty," Horner said after Hamilton's win. Red Bull has 14 days to submit a letter of intent for the right to reassess to the FIA, according to Motorsport-magazin.com. If they decide to do so, the stewards of the race in question must first rule on whether the evidence presented is important and new. If so, the case will be reopened.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89662/can-red-bull-s-lawsuit-against-mercedes-succeed.html


Verstappen's crash financial blow for Red Bull, engine examined by Honda
20-07-2021 06:31 | Updated: 20-07-2021 09:04
by GPblog.com

A day after the crash there is an update on the condition of Max Verstappen. On Verstappen.com you can read that the Dutchman feels pretty good under the circumstances.

Verstappen ended up hard in the tyre wall during the British Grand Prix after a collision in Copse corner. Lewis Hamilton was on the inside of the Dutchman and with a tap on the rear wheel, Verstappen spun into the tyre wall with a 51g impact. A day after the crash, the Dutchman is doing well.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89620/verstappen-s-crash-financial-blow-for-red-bull-engine-examined-by-honda.html


Horner says Mercedes’ lobbying of F1 stewards was “unacceptable”
F1
Lewis Larkam
20 Jul 2021

Red Bull Formula 1 team principal Christian Horner says Mercedes’ lobbying of the stewards during the British Grand Prix was “unacceptable” and should not be allowed.

Mercedes boss Toto Wolff visited the stewards to argue his team’s view of Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen’s controversial collision on the opening lap of Sunday’s race at Silverstone.

Horner later went to see the stewards in person himself after finding out that Wolff had been to put forward Mercedes’ case.

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/983473/1/horner-says-mercedes-lobbying-f1-stewards-was-unacceptable


Max Verstappen 'very motivated' after Lewis Hamilton crash costs Red Bull £650,000
Max Verstappen is hungry to bounce back after a crash with Lewis Hamilton at Silverstone which has cost Red Bull a huge amount of cash.
By Luke Gardener
PUBLISHED: 14:58, Tue, Jul 20, 2021 | UPDATED: 14:58, Tue, Jul 20, 2021

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1465174/Max-Verstappen-motivated-Lewis-Hamilton-costs-Red-Bull-650-000-Helmut-Marko

[truefan72]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp0GG4y3is8&t=887s

so Palmer...Racing incident
What was interesting was the Saturday sprint race (40secs into the video) where on the same corner Hamilton was the one on the outside, slightly creeping ahead, and Verstappen then pushed his car from the inside apex to out wide, and Hamilton was wise enough not to simply turn in. I wonder where all those folks were lamenting Verstappen not keeping to the inside apex, knowing a car was on the outside. (specifically Hill and Button) lol...crickets.
Come Sunday, roles are reversed, and Hamilton keeps his inside line, and Verstappen simply turns in with no notion of giving room.
I'd say, it was a pretty clear cut. On Saturday, he ran him out-wide, on Sunday he tried to jam him inside.

Also included was the 2018 Sainz Grosjean incident on the same corner lap one, where Grosjean was right on the apex and curbs. Sainz turned in anyway and they had a coming together.
That was deemed a racing incident.

I really think the stewards let their emotions get in the way of the actual facts.
Because that 2018 incident was way more problematic IMO and it still was a racing incident.
The only difference is that both cars were out.
I bet you if both Hamilton and Verstappen were out, they would say; "Racing incident" SMH

[truefan72]

Brundle: Red Bull claim to have damning Hamilton data
20th July 2021, ‎13‎:‎45

The Formula 1 pundit has revealed Red Bull have evidence that Lewis Hamilton entered Copse corner on lap one significantly quicker than any other time in the race.

Formula 1 pundit Martin Brundle has revealed that Red Bull have data to prove that Lewis Hamilton entered Copse corner on the first lap faster than any other occasion during the British Grand Prix.
Hamilton collided with title rival Max Verstappen on the opening lap at Copse at high-speed which resulted in the Red Bull driver retiring from the race. Red Bull are yet to rule out an appeal and Brundle says the team may have new evidence which would be needed to make an appeal to the FIA.
"Red Bull felt it was a professional foul, an intentional accident from Hamilton," Brundle wrote in his post-race Sky Sports F1 column. "They were incandescent, their potential world champion was bruised, their car expensively wrecked in this new cost cap era, and with possible grid penalties to come from any engine and ancillary damage.

"They would score zero points from the race and both championship leads would be seriously eroded. I am told by Red Bull there is data to prove Lewis was significantly faster into Copse than at any other time and he would not have made the corner without running wide, and inevitably contacting Max.
"Presumably, that will be made publicly available and if Red Bull feel they have 'new evidence' they may well make an appeal to the FIA as to their perceived degree of fault and leniency regarding Hamilton."
Brundle thinks the 10-second time penalty for Hamilton means the stewards saw it as a 70/30 incident with the blame, going towards the seven-time world champion. He also feels that a collision between Hamilton and Verstappen was inevitable.

Read MORE here;

https://racingnews365.com/brundle-red-bull-claim-to-have-damning-hamilton-data


Can Red Bull's lawsuit against Mercedes succeed?
20-07-2021 16:47 | Updated: 20-07-2021 17:06
by GPblog.com

Recently news emerged that Red Bull Racing is taking legal action against Mercedes regarding the time penalty the Briton received for his incident with Max Verstappen in the first lap of the Silverstone Grand Prix. But on what grounds can Red Bull Racing take this legal action? What are the possibilities?

Helmut Marko had been quite clear earlier and Christian Horner was also adamant: "If you put a driver in hospital and you still win the GP, even with the penalty, it doesn't feel like a penalty," Horner said after Hamilton's win. Red Bull has 14 days to submit a letter of intent for the right to reassess to the FIA, according to Motorsport-magazin.com. If they decide to do so, the stewards of the race in question must first rule on whether the evidence presented is important and new. If so, the case will be reopened.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89662/can-red-bull-s-lawsuit-against-mercedes-succeed.html


Verstappen's crash financial blow for Red Bull, engine examined by Honda
20-07-2021 06:31 | Updated: 20-07-2021 09:04
by GPblog.com

A day after the crash there is an update on the condition of Max Verstappen. On Verstappen.com you can read that the Dutchman feels pretty good under the circumstances.

Verstappen ended up hard in the tyre wall during the British Grand Prix after a collision in Copse corner. Lewis Hamilton was on the inside of the Dutchman and with a tap on the rear wheel, Verstappen spun into the tyre wall with a 51g impact. A day after the crash, the Dutchman is doing well.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/89620/verstappen-s-crash-financial-blow-for-red-bull-engine-examined-by-honda.html


Horner says Mercedes’ lobbying of F1 stewards was “unacceptable”
F1
Lewis Larkam
20 Jul 2021

Red Bull Formula 1 team principal Christian Horner says Mercedes’ lobbying of the stewards during the British Grand Prix was “unacceptable” and should not be allowed.

Mercedes boss Toto Wolff visited the stewards to argue his team’s view of Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen’s controversial collision on the opening lap of Sunday’s race at Silverstone.

Horner later went to see the stewards in person himself after finding out that Wolff had been to put forward Mercedes’ case.

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/983473/1/horner-says-mercedes-lobbying-f1-stewards-was-unacceptable


Max Verstappen 'very motivated' after Lewis Hamilton crash costs Red Bull £650,000
Max Verstappen is hungry to bounce back after a crash with Lewis Hamilton at Silverstone which has cost Red Bull a huge amount of cash.
By Luke Gardener
PUBLISHED: 14:58, Tue, Jul 20, 2021 | UPDATED: 14:58, Tue, Jul 20, 2021

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1465174/Max-Verstappen-motivated-Lewis-Hamilton-costs-Red-Bull-650-000-Helmut-Marko

Are you looking for a PR job with Red Bull?
spamming this forum seems like the least likely route to go.
lol

[Nitrodaze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp0GG4y3is8&t=887s

so Palmer...Racing incident
What was interesting was the Saturday sprint race (40secs into the video) where on the same corner Hamilton was the one on the outside, slightly creeping ahead, and Verstappen then pushed his car from the inside apex to out wide, and Hamilton was wise enough not to simply turn in. I wonder where all those folks were lamenting Verstappen not keeping to the inside apex, knowing a car was on the outside. (specifically Hill and Button) lol...crickets.
Come Sunday, roles are reversed, and Hamilton keeps his inside line, and Verstappen simply turns in with no notion of giving room.
I'd say, it was a pretty clear cut. On Saturday, he ran him out-wide, on Sunday he tried to jam him inside.

Also included was the 2018 Sainz Grosjean incident on the same corner lap one, where Grosjean was right on the apex and curbs. Sainz turned in anyway and they had a coming together.
That was deemed a racing incident.

I really think the stewards let their emotions get in the way of the actual facts.
Because that 2018 incident was way more problematic IMO and it still was a racing incident.
The only difference is that both cars were out.
I bet you if both Hamilton and Verstappen were out, they would say; "Racing incident" SMH

That was a fair and very objective analysis. It is what it is.

Redbull supporters and Hamilton haters would refuse to see it as it is; obviously. But we move to the next one.

[Nitrodaze]

Are you looking for a PR job with Red Bull?
spamming this forum seems like the least likely route to go.
lol

Ha ha LOL

Just another clown.

[The Black Knight]

Great analysis from Jolyon there. It shows Lewis has a brain and used it on Saturday, Max didn't use his on Sunday.

We're also forgetting about Ocon in Brazil with Max. Although I regard it largely as Ocon's fault, mainly because he was lapped, Max could have given more room. Hamilton after the race said you always give the guy on the inside room. Just like in 2018 it appears Max has learned nothing.

[Bagwan]

I'd say it's around 70/30 in the incident , aligning with what Brundle read the FIA steward's decision to be , in terms of how the world press are seeing it .
And , a great number of articles being written from all kinds of places are seeing the penalty as too small .

Of course you folks defending Lewis will "poo poo" this post , but do look around and see you are in a great minority in your opinions on this one .

[Bagwan]

Great analysis from Jolyon there. It shows Lewis has a brain and used it on Saturday, Max didn't use his on Sunday.

We're also forgetting about Ocon in Brazil with Max. Although I regard it largely as Ocon's fault, mainly because he was lapped, Max could have given more room. Hamilton after the race said you always give the guy on the inside room. Just like in 2018 it appears Max has learned nothing.

Seriously ?
Max had no blame in that one .
Ocon was a complete tool there .

They should have let Max get to him in the garage .

[Nitrodaze]

I'd say it's around 70/30 in the incident , aligning with what Brundle read the FIA steward's decision to be , in terms of how the world press are seeing it .
And , a great number of articles being written from all kinds of places are seeing the penalty as too small .

Of course you folks defending Lewis will "poo poo" this post , but do look around and see you are in a great minority in your opinions on this one .

I don't think the argument is to defend Hamilton per se. It is to state that it was a racing incident. And on this point, you would find most of the racing experts agree. Including Brundle.

What most anti-Hamilton post on here has been trying to peddle, is that it was solely Hamilton's fault. And they begrudge him the fact that he won the race even with the penalty awarded.

I and most posts on here refuting that notion and are simply saying it was a racing incident, and Verstappen was not an innocent party in the accident. The Palmer youtube podcast indicated more serious similar collisions in the past that were declared a racing incident and thus were not punished.

If you are quoting from Fortitude's random sources which are mostly from non-racing specialists or Redbull's rhetorics, then l would have to say you have disappointed me.

[Nitrodaze]

Seriously ?
Max had no blame in that one .
Ocon was a complete tool there .

They should have let Max get to him in the garage .

I disagree. He was winning that race. All he had to do was to let Ocon go as he was unlapping himself. But like the Silverstone scenario, he threw the race win away crashing in a fight that he did not need to fight.


Unfortunately, Verstappen is in a championship-winning car but he still lacks some level of maturity. If he ends up losing this championship which looks unlikely at the moment, it would most likely be due to this immature aspect of his racing.

[Zico]

Why not, a tougher sanction for racing for the championship should be imposed. All drivers should also be instructed to keep a two meters distance from each other on the track for covid reasons. A single file from start to the end of the race should also be mandatory.

Just take some time to read your post. Maybe you should take up watching horse racing instead of F1. It is becoming too much for Zico.

I can see that basic comprehension is not one of your forte's, it's actually you who needs to re read my post, in fact I'll try and make it real simple just for you and hopefully you will finally understand instead of just carrying on with your continual sarcastic condescending mockery and woke culture accusations of prejudice and racism, not only to me and also anyone else who disagrees with you.

I simply don't want to see a championship won in a war of attrition between two bitter rivals with strong personal feelings affecting their racecraft and won ​by the driver who punts his rival into the wall more times or most successfully, I can't think of anything more lame or dangerous and IMO that's not racing.

I'm concerned one or both of these two are going to get seriously hurt because the penalty system in place is so lame that its not that much of a deterrent.

Why not have a rule where if you are involved in an incident that is judged to predominantly your fault you can score no more points than your collision 'victim' ?

Does someone have to be seriously injured or die first?

[truefan72]

I don't think the argument is to defend Hamilton per se. It is to state that it was a racing incident. And on this point, you would find most of the racing experts agree. Including Brundle.

What most anti-Hamilton post on here has been trying to peddle, is that it was solely Hamilton's fault. And they begrudge him the fact that he won the race even with the penalty awarded.

I and most posts on here refuting that notion are simply saying it was a racing incident, and Verstappen was not an innocent party in the accident. The Palmer youtube podcast indicated more serious similar collisions in the past that were declared a racing incident and thus were not punished.

If you are quoting from Fortitude's random sources which are mostly from non-racing specialists or Redbull's rhetorics, then l would have to say you have disappointed me.

Essentially that is what we have been saying. It was a racing incident. just like many others.

[airshifter]

Lewis did get it wrong yesterday but to isolate blame on Lewis alone is not fair because Max also got it wrong. He could have gone much wider at Copse and given Hamilton more room. They both erred, and Max paid the price.

Otmar Szafnauer immediately called it a racing incident. Initially I thought Hamilton was to blame but then seeing that Verstappen didn't give him enough room as well in Chandhok's analysis made it clear to me it was a racing incident. While I fully understand your position that Hamilton got it wrong, I don't understand why you can't see that Max also got it wrong.

IMHO Max took a risk that Lewis would back out, and that is the only thing he was wrong about. As the regs currently stand, the driver on the racing line and leading dictates the corner with the stipulation that they must leave a cars width to the opposing car. Lewis was grossly off line, had missed the apex, and was carrying too much speed for a corner that would have two cars in it.

Don't get me wrong. Max would have been wise to just back out and let Lewis go wide, pass or not. Playing the long game would have worked much better. But neither driver is thinking about those details at 180 mph heading into the corner really. They are thinking that they have the corner and their opponent doesn't.... that's why they are good drivers.




I don't think the argument is to defend Hamilton per se. It is to state that it was a racing incident. And on this point, you would find most of the racing experts agree. Including Brundle.



You really should read the entire piece before you use it as a professional opinion that backs your own.

Quoted from the Brundle piece.....

"Max was not at fault although for his own race and championship campaign he could have left a little more space on the inside given Hamilton was bound to be compromised on that line, and perhaps have been less convinced that Lewis would yield."

If you are disappointed about an unknown source from another poster and questioning them on it, you might want to take a look in the mirror and consider how it makes you look to only use part of a persons opinion that you agree with, while ignoring the part you don't.




And in the end, even the former drivers can't agree on the issue. I don't value Brundle's position any more than the other drivers, and they have varied versions of where they think the blame lies in the case. There is no absolute authority on any of it, other than the enforcement arm that is the stewards. The rules are written in a way that they provide a guideline and not much more really. Short of having all kinds of geometric markings on any corner showing differing approach angles, spaces, limits, along with rules that clearly state "driver A owns the corner if they make it to angle XYZ first"...... controversial calls will be a thing in the future as well. But as usual, often people on the internet want to feel that their opinion is absolute fact. Come on folks.... humans are humans, subject to biases and favoritisms, whether conscious of it or not, and yelling at the internet doesn't make us win anything.

Maybe people should just accept that their opinion is just that... their opinion. Others can agree or disagree with it all they want. But it's certainly no reason to start the insults, claims of racism, and general hate and discontent. IMHO it's just childish and proves that people are grasping at straws to claim that the only valid opinion is the one they hold. Posting over and over and over saying the same things doesn't make an opinion any more valid either.... it just usually proves that the person who won't budge on their opinion thinks that the world around them is wrong and they are the only ones that can fix it.





I can see that basic comprehension is not one of your forte's, it's actually you who needs to re read my post, in fact I'll try and make it real simple just for you and hopefully you will finally understand instead of just carrying on with your continual sarcastic condescending mockery and woke culture accusations of prejudice and racism, not only to me and also anyone else who disagrees with you.

I simply don't want to see a championship won in a war of attrition between two bitter rivals with strong personal feelings affecting their racecraft and won ​by the driver who punts his rival into the wall more times or most successfully, I can't think of anything more lame or dangerous and IMO that's not racing.

I'm concerned one or both of these two are going to get seriously hurt because the penalty system in place is so lame that its not that much of a deterrent.

Why not have a rule where if you are involved in an incident that is judged to predominantly your fault you can score no more points than your collision 'victim' ?

Does someone have to be seriously injured or die first?

How dare you actually focus on a way to make solid rules that allow racing and keep things safe. Pick a side, become a fanboi extremist, and shout from the rooftops! :laugh:


Yeah, the rules right now just kind of still suck at clarity, and they are leaving the door open for these kinds of things. Racing will be racing, but there has got to be a better way to sort things out and keep it somewhat safe. It's sort of a catch 22 situation.... if the rules are too strict racing suffers. If the rules are too loose, racing suffers.

But I agree the penalty system really doesn't hurt a lot of times. Especially the time based penalties, as they give advantage to guess who????... As usual the top teams. While Merc and RB can pretty much recover from a time penalty, the farther back cars are in the pack the more positions it often costs them.

[The Black Knight]

Seriously ?
Max had no blame in that one .
Ocon was a complete tool there .

They should have let Max get to him in the garage .

There was partial blame to Max, he could have left Ocon a little more room. Hamilton was right behind it as it happened and he said afterwards that you always give the other guy plenty of room. If Hamilton were in Max's position that day, I doubt him and Ocon would have collided. Ocon, though, was predominantly at fault and it was a stupid move to begin with. Max has had a range of these incidents now and in each one of them he had the ability to give the other guy more space.

[The Black Knight]

IMHO Max took a risk that Lewis would back out, and that is the only thing he was wrong about. As the regs currently stand, the driver on the racing line and leading dictates the corner with the stipulation that they must leave a cars width to the opposing car. Lewis was grossly off line, had missed the apex, and was carrying too much speed for a corner that would have two cars in it.

Don't get me wrong. Max would have been wise to just back out and let Lewis go wide, pass or not. Playing the long game would have worked much better. But neither driver is thinking about those details at 180 mph heading into the corner really. They are thinking that they have the corner and their opponent doesn't.... that's why they are good drivers.



I knew Max wouldn't back out. He's not that kind of driver and has not learned that living to fight another day is sometimes the better option. Hamilton has learned this which is why he backed out in Spain and Imola but one driver cannot have it is way the entire time. But you've summed up on your post exactly why it is a racing incident, both drivers could have done things differently to avoid the incident.

Also, on Brundles quote


"Max was not at fault although for his own race and championship campaign he could have left a little more space on the inside given Hamilton was bound to be compromised on that line, and perhaps have been less convinced that Lewis would yield."


Brundle has contradicted himself in that sentence. You can't absolve Max of blame and then say he could have left a little more space, although I would change that to he "should" have left more space, just like LeClerc did even though Hamilton was further behind into Copse at that point than he was on Max. That's the difference between a driver using (LeClerc) and not using his brain (Max).

[Nitrodaze]

I can see that basic comprehension is not one of your forte's, it's actually you who needs to re read my post, in fact I'll try and make it real simple just for you and hopefully you will finally understand instead of just carrying on with your continual sarcastic condescending mockery and woke culture accusations of prejudice and racism, not only to me and also anyone else who disagrees with you.

I simply don't want to see a championship won in a war of attrition between two bitter rivals with strong personal feelings affecting their racecraft and won ​by the driver who punts his rival into the wall more times or most successfully, I can't think of anything more lame or dangerous and IMO that's not racing.

I'm concerned one or both of these two are going to get seriously hurt because the penalty system in place is so lame that its not that much of a deterrent.

Why not have a rule where if you are involved in an incident that is judged to predominantly your fault you can score no more points than your collision 'victim' ?

Does someone have to be seriously injured or die first?

Well this sort of racing is dotted across the very depth of F1 history. From Senna and Prost, Senna and Mansell, Schumacher and Hill, Rosberg and Hamilton, Verstappen and Ricciardo, Vettel and Webber, Vettel and Verstappen, Raikonnen and Verstappen and the list goes on and on.

This is motor racing. To be the best in a season, one must defeat the best. When racing with the best, how well you measure comes down to how well one uses their head and their racecraft. The crash was avoidable. If it were any other driver it may not have happened as they would properly judge that situation better.

So your post was properly understood and l think this degree of racing is very uncomfortable for you. I get that. But this is motor racing at the highest level, not a sunday drive around the M25.

The idea of ruining the race of a driver that survived a collision because the other driver's race was terminated by the collision is rubbish. You are effectively saying drivers should be banned from winning the race if they were involved in a collision. This is the worst crap anyone has said on here. How the hell is that entertaining?

The spirited drive to recover 10 seconds and taking the win was very entertaining as it was not certain that he could pull it off or whether Leclerc would allow it.

[Nitrodaze]

IMHO Max took a risk that Lewis would back out, and that is the only thing he was wrong about. As the regs currently stand, the driver on the racing line and leading dictates the corner with the stipulation that they must leave a cars width to the opposing car. Lewis was grossly off line, had missed the apex, and was carrying too much speed for a corner that would have two cars in it.

Don't get me wrong. Max would have been wise to just back out and let Lewis go wide, pass or not. Playing the long game would have worked much better. But neither driver is thinking about those details at 180 mph heading into the corner really. They are thinking that they have the corner and their opponent doesn't.... that's why they are good drivers.

As usual, your perception of things is quite at odds with reality. I really wonder if you watched the race through someone else's window. Hamilton was actually on the inside for the right-hander and on the racing line. Verstappen was ahead but off the racing line, and was trying to get back onto the racing which caused the collision. No one is suggesting that Verstappen should have backed off. As a matter of fact, that is the last thing that he should have done. What he needed to do was to take a wider line through the corner to avoid what was obviously going to be a crash. You like to spout on here but half the time you do not know what the hell you are talking about.




You really should read the entire piece before you use it as a professional opinion that backs your own.

Quoted from the Brundle piece.....

"Max was not at fault although for his own race and championship campaign he could have left a little more space on the inside given Hamilton was bound to be compromised on that line, and perhaps have been less convinced that Lewis would yield."

If you are disappointed about an unknown source from another poster and questioning them on it, you might want to take a look in the mirror and consider how it makes you look to only use part of a persons opinion that you agree with, while ignoring the part you don't.

Once again, if you read Brundle's post, you would find that he sees it as a 70:30 fault distribution between the drivers and argued that it was the reason that a Stop and Go penalty was not awarded to Hamilton. So Verstappen had 30% of the fault from the stewards perspective and Hamilton 70%. But he goes on to say that in his opinion, it was a racing incident at best. Which l have been trying to say.


But I agree the penalty system really doesn't hurt a lot of times. Especially the time based penalties, as they give advantage to guess who????... As usual the top teams. While Merc and RB can pretty much recover from a time penalty, the farther back cars are in the pack the more positions it often costs them.

Once the stewards decided to award a penalty, they actually award what was the most that should be applicable in the circumstances. Hamilton did not win the race because of the penalty award to him. Under normal conditions, he would have been out of contention for the race win. He won the race because the race was red-flagged. Which afforded Mercedes the chance to replace his cracked left front wheel that was involved in the crash. Without the red flag, Hamilton's race was done.

If you took the time to objectively look at the situation, you would understand these facts. Of course, if you are looking through a prejudiced tinted glasses, you would not see these details. This was one of those situations where the stewards were between a rock and a hard place. No decision they made was going to be free from criticism. This is why l now understand why the penalty was given. And they called it right by picking a middle road for all concerned. To be fair they did a very good job of it.

[The Black Knight]

I think that had Hamilton been eliminated from the race the Stewards would have labelled this a racing incident. I think they felt because Verstappen had been eliminated from the race there needed to be a punishment for Hamilton but didn't hold him wholly to blame and that was reflect in the lenient penalty they gave him. Had he been eliminated, on the other hand, I think they would have decided both competitors had suffered enough.

[Bagwan]

As usual, your perception of things is quite at odds with reality. I really wonder if you watched the race through someone else's window. Hamilton was actually on the inside for the right-hander and on the racing line. Verstappen was ahead but off the racing line, and was trying to get back onto the racing which caused the collision. No one is suggesting that Verstappen should have backed off. As a matter of fact, that is the last thing that he should have done. What he needed to do was to take a wider line through the corner to avoid what was obviously going to be a crash. You like to spout on here but half the time you do not know what the hell you are talking about.





Once again, if you read Brundle's post, you would find that he sees it as a 70:30 fault distribution between the drivers and argued that it was the reason that a Stop and Go penalty was not awarded to Hamilton. So Verstappen had 30% of the fault from the stewards perspective and Hamilton 70%. But he goes on to say that in his opinion, it was a racing incident at best. Which l have been trying to say.



Once the stewards decided to award a penalty, they actually award what was the most that should be applicable in the circumstances. Hamilton did not win the race because of the penalty award to him. Under normal conditions, he would have been out of contention for the race win. He won the race because the race was red-flagged. Which afforded Mercedes the chance to replace his cracked left front wheel that was involved in the crash. Without the red flag, Hamilton's race was done.

If you took the time to objectively look at the situation, you would understand these facts. Of course, if you are looking through a prejudiced tinted glasses, you would not see these details. This was one of those situations where the stewards were between a rock and a hard place. No decision they made was going to be free from criticism. This is why l now understand why the penalty was given. And they called it right by picking a middle road for all concerned. To be fair they did a very good job of it.

Here's my opinion on that .
Airshifter is one of the most un-biased posters we have here .

You are not .

[Nitrodaze]

Here's my opinion on that .
Airshifter is one of the most un-biased posters we have here .

You are not .

Ha, You certainly are not. I would respond strongly to any bias from any poster on here. That is not being biased. But l admit that l take no prisoners in my responses. l challenge you to find any post of mine that is biased.

I was once full of praise for Mercedes for what they have achieved since returning to F1 as l have done for Hamilton for what he has done since recovering from the five years slump at Mclaren. If that is being biased, then l am guilty as charged.

[denkimi]

How dare you actually focus on a way to make solid rules that allow racing and keep things safe. Pick a side, become a fanboi extremist, and shout from the rooftops! :laugh:

that's unfortunately how many people are.

but once you learn who they are and know who they will unconditionally defend its actually quite amusing to read their posts.




Yeah, the rules right now just kind of still suck at clarity, and they are leaving the door open for these kinds of things. Racing will be racing, but there has got to be a better way to sort things out and keep it somewhat safe. It's sort of a catch 22 situation.... if the rules are too strict racing suffers. If the rules are too loose, racing suffers.

But I agree the penalty system really doesn't hurt a lot of times. Especially the time based penalties, as they give advantage to guess who????... As usual the top teams. While Merc and RB can pretty much recover from a time penalty, the farther back cars are in the pack the more positions it often costs them.
the main problem in this case was that hamilton wrecked his front wing and got to repair it for free during red flag. Without that he would have been at the back of the pack or even have to retire. in any care he wouldn't have won and there would have been far les discussion.

all we need to avoid this in the future is a rule that says that anyone who has his car worked on during red flag, has to start the restart from the pits .

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/19/red-flag-for-verstappen-crash-saved-hamilton-from-retirement/

[Bagwan]

Ha, You certainly are not. I would respond strongly to any bias from any poster on here. That is not being biased. But l admit that l take no prisoners in my responses. l challenge you to find any post of mine that is biased.

I was once full of praise for Mercedes for what they have achieved since returning to F1 as l have done for Hamilton for what he has done since recovering from the five years slump at Mclaren. If that is being biased, then l am guilty as charged.

Agreed .
Guilty as charged .

[Bagwan]

that's unfortunately how many people are.

but once you learn who they are and know who they will unconditionally defend its actually quite amusing to read their posts.



the main problem in this case was that hamilton wrecked his front wing and got to repair it for free during red flag. Without that he would have been at the back of the pack or even have to retire. in any care he wouldn't have won and there would have been far les discussion.

all we need to avoid this in the future is a rule that says that anyone who has his car worked on during red flag, has to start the restart from the pits .

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/19/red-flag-for-verstappen-crash-saved-hamilton-from-retirement/

The only issue I see with having "worked on" cars restart from the pit lane would be that in some of these incidents there is collateral damage (ie- cars rolling over damaged bodywork) where the driver is completely innocent , caught up in confusion .

[Nitrodaze]

all we need to avoid this in the future is a rule that says that anyone who has his car worked on during red flag, has to start the restart from the pits .

Every team uses the red flag pitlane park to change tyres, adjust wings and do other fixes. Such a rule as you have suggested would ban all work to be done on the car when they park in the pitlane under red flag conditions. The teams would collectively not like that idea. This would be seen as an adverse change which would be to detriment of the other teams due to a reaction to Hamilton and Mercedes.

Besides, repairing cars under red flag conditions do not always work out. If the time it takes to fix a particular problem cannot be carried out before the end of the Red flag then retirement is assured. This adds to the entertainment, since the engineers are on the clock to get repairs done before the end of the indeterminate duration of the red flag or retire the car.

This has been part of F1 since its inception. Hence there is no reason to change it.

[denkimi]

The only issue I see with having "worked on" cars restart from the pit lane would be that in some of these incidents there is collateral damage (ie- cars rolling over damaged bodywork) where the driver is completely innocent , caught up in confusion .
that's part of the game, it wil never be completely fair unfortunately.

it's just so that nowadays, because they use safetycars and red flags all the time, you can cause an accident, damage your own car and get away with it. a few years ago this would have messed up lewis'es race just as bad as verstappens. the damage caused is in itself a big punishment and a big reason to stay out of collisions. if you can get away with it for free, there is much less more incentive to avoid it.


people often refer to drivers like schumacher or senna, but they would not have put their opponents in the wall at 300km/h. they were hard racers, but in their time such accidents could get them killed.

[Fortitude]

Lewis Hamilton 'was to blame' as David Coulthard weighs in on Max Verstappen row
David Coulthard says Lewis Hamilton was to blame for the Max Verstappen British Grand Prix crash.
By Claire Cottingham
PUBLISHED: 14:12, Wed, Jul 21, 2021 | UPDATED: 14:12, Wed, Jul 21, 2021

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/f1-autosport/1465674/Lewis-Hamilton-David-Coulthard-weighs-Max-Verstappen-British-Grand-Prix


Lewis Hamilton v Max Verstappen: Red Bull 'have data' to lay blame for Silverstone crash at Brit's door
By George Dagless
Published: 21 Jul 2021, 10:48

Red Bull are said to possess data that shows Lewis Hamilton was going faster into Copse on lap one than at any other time of the British Grand Prix on Sunday, potentially suggesting that the Briton was to blame for the incident with Max Verstappen.

Battle lines weren't just drawn on Sunday afternoon just after 3pm at Copse corner, they were carved in stone, and both camps from Toto Wolff and Christian Horner down to fans on social media were quick to pull the trigger in the blame game.

https://www.givemesport.com/1725087-lewis-hamilton-v-max-verstappen-red-bull-have-data-to-lay-blame-for-silverstone-crash-at-brits-door


‘Data shows Hamilton wouldn’t have made the corner’
Date published: July 21 2021 - Jon Wilde

Martin Brundle says Red Bull have told him they have data that shows Lewis Hamilton would have run wide at Copse had he not collided with Max Verstappen.

But rather than Hamilton’s car entering the gravel on lap one of the British Grand Prix, it was Verstappen’s Red Bull – which did so at high speed and hit the barrier with a 51G impact, putting the Dutchman out of the race and in hospital for precautionary medical checks.

Red Bull were furious at Hamilton’s manoeuvre as the two World Championship contenders duelled for the lead, the Mercedes driver ‘dummying’ Verstappen by challenging up the inside only for their wheels to make contact as they turned into the corner at 160mph.

After the race was red-flagged, Red Bull team principal Christian Horner was straight on the radio to FIA race director Michael Masi, saying: “Every driver who’s driven at this circuit knows you don’t stick a wheel up the inside at Copse.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/martin-brundle-lewis-hamilton-data/


Hamilton using 'every weapon in his arsenal' in Verstappen fight - Wolff
Sam Hall
Wednesday 21 July 2021 04:00

Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff has highlighted Lewis Hamilton's recent visits to the simulator as evidence the seven-time F1 champion is using his entire "arsenal of weapons" to defeat Max Verstappen.

With no running on Friday morning, Hamilton travelled the short 10-mile distance from Silverstone to the team's factory at Brackley to use the simulator to steal a march on his rivals.

Hamilton has previously declared his dislike for the simulator but is finding it a useful tool this year in his championship fight with Red Bull's Verstappen.

“The simulator wasn’t his most favourite tool in the past," said Wolff. "We have developed it to a level that is quite good, maybe best in class and he has started to see the benefits of it.

“This fight is so tough that you need to grab every marginal gain and that is why we have progressed together to better understand the car also with the tool of the simulator.”

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67669/hamilton-using-every-weapon-in-his-arsenal-in-verstappen-fight-wolff/


"Wound up" Hamilton drove like an "amateur" in Verstappen crash - Horner
Ian Parkes
Monday 19 July 2021 07:00

Red Bull team principal Christian Horner believes Lewis Hamilton was "wound up" after losing F1's maiden sprint race and ended up driving like 'an amateur' in the build-up to the first-lap clash with Max Verstappen in the British Grand Prix.

Horner was left fuming with Hamilton in the wake of an incident that has lit the blue touchpaper to an explosive campaign over the remaining 13 races as the title rivals give no quarter in their bid for the championship.

Horner initially described Hamilton as "desperate' and "dangerous" and is convinced that what unfolded during the sprint led to that state of mind and Verstappen's 51g impact with a tyre barrier at Copse Corner and a subsequent trip to hospital.

Following what he felt was a "strong" day for Verstappen on Saturday with the sprint win, Horner felt that "added to Lewis’ desperation".

"Having lost the sprint, he was pretty wound up and that’s why he made an ill-judged move," said Horner.

"He ran wide into the corner with too much speed. That move was never on.

"Lewis is a world champion with seven titles and that was an amateur’s mistake and a desperate mistake. We were just very lucky someone wasn’t seriously injured."

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67621/wound-up-hamilton-drove-like-an-amateur-in-verstappen-crash-horner/

[Bagwan]

that's part of the game, it wil never be completely fair unfortunately.

it's just so that nowadays, because they use safetycars and red flags all the time, you can cause an accident, damage your own car and get away with it. a few years ago this would have messed up lewis'es race just as bad as verstappens. the damage caused is in itself a big punishment and a big reason to stay out of collisions. if you can get away with it for free, there is much less more incentive to avoid it.


people often refer to drivers like schumacher or senna, but they would not have put their opponents in the wall at 300km/h. they were hard racers, but in their time such accidents could get them killed.

Perhaps those involved directly could be made to start from pit lane , and those affected peripherally could ask for special dispensation during the red flag period .
They already have to have an FIA rep there to assure parts changed are the identical .

Some years ago , Max might not have made it out of that one .
In the beginning , he would likely have been thrown from the car , not having a seatbelt at all .

As safety has improved the respect for the other guy has dropped .

Key words for me in this one were something like "I knew Max wouldn't back out of it ".
What does that say ?

[The Black Knight]

Perhaps those involved directly could be made to start from pit lane , and those affected peripherally could ask for special dispensation during the red flag period .
They already have to have an FIA rep there to assure parts changed are the identical .

Some years ago , Max might not have made it out of that one .
In the beginning , he would likely have been thrown from the car , not having a seatbelt at all .

As safety has improved the respect for the other guy has dropped .

Key words for me in this one were something like "I knew Max wouldn't back out of it ".
What does that say ?

It says Max is an idiot that has to learn that it's more important to win the war than all the battles. I don't expect him to have learned that yet, he's not the brightest spark but a few more of these incidents added to his portfolio, and there will be many, then maybe eventually it'll get through.

[Bagwan]

It says Max is an idiot that has to learn that it's more important to win the war than all the battles. I don't expect him to have learned that yet, he's not the brightest spark but a few more of these incidents added to his portfolio, and there will be many, then maybe eventually it'll get through.

Or , to put it a different way , maybe he'll learn he can't necessarily trust Lewis to back out of an impossible move .

It's fun how there's more than one way to look at it , isn't it ?


Does it say , I knew we would touch ?

[Nitrodaze]

Or , to put it a different way , maybe he'll learn he can't necessarily trust Lewis to back out of an impossible move .

It's fun how there's more than one way to look at it , isn't it ?


Does it say , I knew we would touch ?

Close quarter racing is the essence of the formula. Each driver does it with trust in the other driver to conduct their manoeuvre with skill and mutual respect. That is the essence of avoiding a collision. The unwritten rule is to avoid a collision but to race each other as hard as possible while doing so. Afterall, these are best drivers in the world.

While you chaps turn a blind eye to Verstappen's approach to racing, the rest of the grid is very uncomfortable with it. Vettel was very vocal about it in 2018. Kimi , Leclerc and Ocon in 2019. Ricciardo certainly found it a bit much as well.

The thing is most drivers on the grid don't trust Verstappen to obey the unwritten rule, as he pushes the envelop further than is required by the unwritten rule. And he sees it as beating the other driver that has gone out their way to ensure that the moment does not result in a bad crash. On two occasions before Silverstone, he has pushed the envelope to the point that a crash did occur. Singapore in the Ferrari sandwich crash that effectively put paid to Vettel's championship campaign. At Baku zig zagging that caused Ricciardo to crash into the back of him. Then there was the pointless crash at Sao Paulo Brasil, where he aggressively cut across Ocon ending both of their races and losing a race that was in the bag.

This is racing, any sensible driver would make allowance for the other driver to fight through the corner as he is not paid to back out. I find it quite confusing that you lot keep going on that Hamilton should back out. Why the hell should he. He might as well go home, hang up his helmet and retire.

The fans at the grandstand or pay TV viewers did pay to see drivers backing off. They paid to see a proper duel for the championship. And it should not be easy. It should be damn hard, and that it is.

[denkimi]

Or , to put it a different way , maybe he'll learn he can't necessarily trust Lewis to back out of an impossible move .

Having the other drivers think you are a dangerous and stupid driver is actually a much used tactic. Crash into someone a few times and they will most likely give you space the next time.

That is why we normally have penalty's for those things. To stop drivers from being to overly agressive. Because most of them are the agressive winners type. If we just let them we would see many more accidents.

And the lack of a meaningfull penalty here is why we will have more accidents between hamilton and verstappen in the future. Why should you back off if you can just put your opponent in the wall without consequences?

Verstappen is perhaps been the driver who has the most fearsome reputation, crashing many many times into almost everyone. Doing stupid and dangerous things almost every race in his first years.

He has improved a lot over the years, but i'm sure he will take notice here. I expect to see him being more aggressive and causing more accidents.

[Nitrodaze]

Having the other drivers think you are a dangerous and stupid driver is actually a much used tactic. Crash into someone a few times and they will most likely give you space the next time.

That is why we normally have penalty's for those things. To stop drivers from being to overly agressive. Because most of them are the agressive winners type. If we just let them we would see many more accidents.

And the lack of a meaningfull penalty here is why we will have more accidents between hamilton and verstappen in the future. Why should you back off if you can just put your opponent in the wall without consequences?

Verstappen is perhaps been the driver who has the most fearsome reputation, crashing many many times into almost everyone. Doing stupid and dangerous things almost every race in his first years.

He has improved a lot over the years, but i'm sure he will take notice here. I expect to see him being more aggressive and causing more accidents.

That would be very bad news to Redbull in this budget cap regime. They are already using up a bit of their development token to fix that crashed car. Commonsense would say tone down the aggression.

[Mia 01]

You mean the chrash serves a double cause?

[denkimi]

That would be very bad news to Redbull in this budget cap regime. They are already using up a bit of their development token to fix that crashed car. Commonsense would say tone down the aggression.
I'm pretty sure they don't care the least about the costs. They will have all sorts of workarounds already anyway.

[Zico]

IMHO Max took a risk that Lewis would back out, and that is the only thing he was wrong about. As the regs currently stand, the driver on the racing line and leading dictates the corner with the stipulation that they must leave a cars width to the opposing car. Lewis was grossly off line, had missed the apex, and was carrying too much speed for a corner that would have two cars in it.

Don't get me wrong. Max would have been wise to just back out and let Lewis go wide, pass or not. Playing the long game would have worked much better. But neither driver is thinking about those details at 180 mph heading into the corner really. They are thinking that they have the corner and their opponent doesn't.... that's why they are good drivers.





You really should read the entire piece before you use it as a professional opinion that backs your own.

Quoted from the Brundle piece.....

"Max was not at fault although for his own race and championship campaign he could have left a little more space on the inside given Hamilton was bound to be compromised on that line, and perhaps have been less convinced that Lewis would yield."

If you are disappointed about an unknown source from another poster and questioning them on it, you might want to take a look in the mirror and consider how it makes you look to only use part of a persons opinion that you agree with, while ignoring the part you don't.




And in the end, even the former drivers can't agree on the issue. I don't value Brundle's position any more than the other drivers, and they have varied versions of where they think the blame lies in the case. There is no absolute authority on any of it, other than the enforcement arm that is the stewards. The rules are written in a way that they provide a guideline and not much more really. Short of having all kinds of geometric markings on any corner showing differing approach angles, spaces, limits, along with rules that clearly state "driver A owns the corner if they make it to angle XYZ first"...... controversial calls will be a thing in the future as well. But as usual, often people on the internet want to feel that their opinion is absolute fact. Come on folks.... humans are humans, subject to biases and favoritisms, whether conscious of it or not, and yelling at the internet doesn't make us win anything.

Maybe people should just accept that their opinion is just that... their opinion. Others can agree or disagree with it all they want. But it's certainly no reason to start the insults, claims of racism, and general hate and discontent. IMHO it's just childish and proves that people are grasping at straws to claim that the only valid opinion is the one they hold. Posting over and over and over saying the same things doesn't make an opinion any more valid either.... it just usually proves that the person who won't budge on their opinion thinks that the world around them is wrong and they are the only ones that can fix it.






How dare you actually focus on a way to make solid rules that allow racing and keep things safe. Pick a side, become a fanboi extremist, and shout from the rooftops! :laugh:


Yeah, the rules right now just kind of still suck at clarity, and they are leaving the door open for these kinds of things. Racing will be racing, but there has got to be a better way to sort things out and keep it somewhat safe. It's sort of a catch 22 situation.... if the rules are too strict racing suffers. If the rules are too loose, racing suffers.

But I agree the penalty system really doesn't hurt a lot of times. Especially the time based penalties, as they give advantage to guess who????... As usual the top teams. While Merc and RB can pretty much recover from a time penalty, the farther back cars are in the pack the more positions it often costs them.


Thanks!.. Finally, the voice of reason and common sense. Agreed on all points, we are on exactly the same page on this one.


I reckon there is probably also an element of high downforce vs low downforce at play in the incident.
Lewis's lower downforce which gave him the straight-line speed advantage to be able to attack Max unfortunately also did not allow him to be able to hit the apex.. or stay in the track space that Max left for him.

...but that is obviously Max's fault, he should have known that was going to happen and should have yielded to the understeering Lewis no matter what. ;)

[Bagwan]

Having the other drivers think you are a dangerous and stupid driver is actually a much used tactic. Crash into someone a few times and they will most likely give you space the next time.

That is why we normally have penalty's for those things. To stop drivers from being to overly agressive. Because most of them are the agressive winners type. If we just let them we would see many more accidents.

And the lack of a meaningfull penalty here is why we will have more accidents between hamilton and verstappen in the future. Why should you back off if you can just put your opponent in the wall without consequences?

Verstappen is perhaps been the driver who has the most fearsome reputation, crashing many many times into almost everyone. Doing stupid and dangerous things almost every race in his first years.

He has improved a lot over the years, but i'm sure he will take notice here. I expect to see him being more aggressive and causing more accidents.

I get that Max has a reputation for being pushy , but pretty much all agree he has toned it down a long way from back then .

This wasn't that .
Yes , it was aggressive , and yes , it was risky , but it was also good racecraft .
He kept Lewis tight down the straight approaching the corner , and then took the racing line , knowing that Lewis would know he was too tight to make the corner at that speed , and then left room inside for him to do it .
Leclerc didn't keep Lewis in tight , and lost the fight , because Lewis had a better line in .

[Zico]

.
It says Max is an idiot that has to learn that it's more important to win the war than all the battles. I don't expect him to have learned that yet, he's not the brightest spark but a few more of these incidents added to his portfolio, and there will be many, then maybe eventually it'll get through.

Perhaps.. but more pertinently it also tells us Lewis knew what was likely to happen and didn't care, he was prepared to punt Max off the track at what was it... 180mph? and all for a championship.

Well despite my own thoughts about that, we certainly can't accuse him of lacking drive or dedication to winning his 8th title. No qualms of F's given...

Interesting but also worrying times ahead. 🤔

[Nitrodaze]

I'm pretty sure they don't care the least about the costs. They will have all sorts of workarounds already anyway.

Not for more crashes every other weekend. Any more and they would not be able to bring any more upgrades for the car. The point is not about whether Redbull has cash but whether they can afford to spend the capped budget fixing crash damages rather than developing the can.

[The Black Knight]

.

Perhaps.. but more pertinently it also tells us Lewis knew what was likely to happen and didn't care, he was prepared to punt Max off the track at what was it... 180mph? and all for a championship.

Well despite my own thoughts about that, we certainly can't accuse him of lacking drive or dedication to winning his 8th title. No qualms of F's given...

Interesting but also worrying times ahead. 🤔

As mentioned before Max has pushed the boundaries of aggressive racing already this year, and each time Lewis has backed out. There was always going to come a time when Lewis said enough is enough. Now Max knows that if he cuts across Lewis like that again he may very well end up in the wall.

And why should he care? Max didn't care if he took Lewis off in Imola or Spain. Throughout his career Lewis has been an impeccably clean driver but if you come Up against a guy that has shown you he's happy to take you out to gain or keep position you must stand your ground. Lewis quite rightly did this on Saturday. He took the same uncompromising approach Max took and Max paid the price.

[Nitrodaze]

I get that Max has a reputation for being pushy , but pretty much all agree he has toned it down a long way from back then .

This wasn't that .
Yes , it was aggressive , and yes , it was risky , but it was also good racecraft .
He kept Lewis tight down the straight approaching the corner , and then took the racing line , knowing that Lewis would know he was too tight to make the corner at that speed , and then left room inside for him to do it .
Leclerc didn't keep Lewis in tight , and lost the fight , because Lewis had a better line in .

You describe well the reason why a crash was inevitable at Corpse corner. One cannot keep a competitor who is alongside you, tight approaching a corner and expect them to back off to let you waltz through with ease. Your competitor would hug you tight as well to force you to take a wider line through the corner. That is fighting through the corner. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Well, he did not make allowances for Hamilton fighting him through the corner and turn into Hamilton, causing the crash. It was very daft. And you chaps just keep making a mockery of yourselves describing why it was dumb driving.

BTW Leclerc has his head well screwed on. A proper smart driver that thinks well on his feet.

[Zico]

As mentioned before Max has pushed the boundaries of aggressive racing already this year, and each time Lewis has backed out. There was always going to come a time when Lewis said enough is enough. Now Max knows that if he cuts across Lewis like that again he may very well end up in the wall.

And why should he care? Max didn't care if he took Lewis off in Imola or Spain. Throughout his career Lewis has been an impeccably clean driver but if you come Up against a guy that has shown you he's happy to take you out to gain or keep position you must stand your ground. Lewis quite rightly did this on Saturday. He took the same uncompromising approach Max took and Max paid the price.

It's one thing teaching someone you are not going to be bullied... but at 180mph? That's psychopath territory.

[Nitrodaze]

.

Perhaps.. but more pertinently it also tells us Lewis knew what was likely to happen and didn't care, he was prepared to punt Max off the track at what was it... 180mph? and all for a championship.

Well despite my own thoughts about that, we certainly can't accuse him of lacking drive or dedication to winning his 8th title. No qualms of F's given...

Interesting but also worrying times ahead. ��

But why should he care. To back off means to let Verstappen bully his way into winning the championship. Racing is not about bullying but expert racecraft to fairly get ahead and win. Beating your opponent fair and square is where the respect is at. Not bullying. You are delusional if you think Hamilton or any other driver would put up with persistent bully driving from Verstappen.

I actually think this would give other drivers a wake-up call to not tolerate Verstappen's antics anymore also.

[Nitrodaze]

It's one thing teaching someone you are not going to be bullied... but at 180mph? That's psychopath territory.

There is not a speed where such a statement should be made. It would be made at whatever speed the bullying is taking place. At Silverstone, it took place at the fast-flowing corner of Corpse at 180 mph. That is the moment, speed and corner that Verstappen sought a response.

[Zico]

But why should he care. To back off means to let Verstappen bully his way into winning the championship. Racing is not about bullying but expert racecraft to fairly get ahead and win. Beating your opponent fair and square is where the respect is at. Not bullying. You are delusional if you think Hamilton or any other driver would put up with persistent bully driving from Verstappen.

I actually think this would give other drivers a wake-up call to not tolerate Verstappen's antics anymore also.


See my answer to TBK..

[The Black Knight]

It's one thing teaching someone you are not going to be bullied... but at 180mph? That's psychopath territory.

It's racing driving. Hard lesson hard taught. Spain could have been very bad for Lewis. Had Max smashed into him he would have gone straight into Lewis side cockpit, which could have been a fatal accident. I don't remember you being so inflated about it.

[Nitrodaze]

You mean the chrash serves a double cause?

Yep, it had a double effect. The Redbull could take no further part in the race. And there was the cost from a limited budget to fix the damage. But do not mean you should blame Hamilton double times.

[Nitrodaze]

See my answer to TBK..

There is nothing psychopathic about it. It is normal racing. This is how it is done for 71 seasons now.

[Nitrodaze]

It's racing driving. Hard lesson hard taught. Spain could have been very bad for Lewis. Had Max smashed into him he would have gone straight into Lewis side cockpit, which could have been a fatal accident. I don't remember you being so inflated about it.

Short memory that is why. I distinctly remember saying that this sort of racing is going to result in a bad crash one day as Hamilton would not stand for it.

[denkimi]

It's one thing teaching someone you are not going to be bullied... but at 180mph? That's psychopath territory.
that's attempted murder if one could prove it was on purpose.

but although hamiltons statement would make you think otherwise, i find it hard to believe it was actually his intention to send max into the wall.

[Bagwan]

You describe well the reason why a crash was inevitable at Corpse corner. One cannot keep a competitor who is alongside you, tight approaching a corner and expect them to back off to let you waltz through with ease. Your competitor would hug you tight as well to force you to take a wider line through the corner. That is fighting through the corner. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Well, he did not make allowances for Hamilton fighting him through the corner and turn into Hamilton, causing the crash. It was very daft. And you chaps just keep making a mockery of yourselves describing why it was dumb driving.

BTW Leclerc has his head well screwed on. A proper smart driver that thinks well on his feet.

Max left room for Lewis .
That is why Lewis got the penalty .

[Nitrodaze]

that's attempted murder if one could prove it was on purpose.

but although hamiltons statement would make you think otherwise, i find it hard to believe it was actually his intention to send max into the wall.

There is plenty of video evidence of what happened. It was a racing incident. None of it was intentional. Hamilton did not take Vertstappen out. If the video evident indicated that was the case, the stewards would have issued a race ban easily.

[Nitrodaze]

He left room for Max and did not back out .
That is why he got the penalty .

Nope, the crash was spectacular which is why he got the penalty. The disproportionate reactions also had loads to do with it.

[Zico]

There is not a speed where such a statement should be made. It would be made at whatever speed the bullying is taking place. At Silverstone, it took place at the fast-flowing corner of Corpse at 180 mph. That is the moment, speed and corner that Verstappen sought a response.


😆


Defending and intentionally punting someone into the wall are worlds apart. Keep digging..

[Zico]

that's attempted murder if one could prove it was on purpose.

but although hamiltons statement would make you think otherwise, i find it hard to believe it was actually his intention to send max into the wall.


Yes, it's quite a statement either way.

[Nitrodaze]

��


Defending and intentionally punting someone into the wall are worlds apart. Keep digging..

Come on, how could you say Hamilton punted Verstappen into the wall. What race were you watching mate? Kurun Chandhok detailed analysis did not show that. Palmer's analysis on Formula One TV did not show that. Somehow you saw that on your TV

[denkimi]

��


Defending and intentionally punting someone into the wall are worlds apart. Keep digging..
don't bother with nitro and TBK, they will defend hamilton whatever happens. no point in trying to convince thim he did anything wrong.

but as long as hamilton's not involved they are ok to discuss with.

[Zico]

"I was pretty far alongside him, but I could see he wasn't going to back out. But then we went into the corner and we collided"

Lewis's words, not mine.. he had also mentioned something about showing Max he was not going to be bullied.

Make of that what you will. I'm guessing it will be that he mispoke or that it doesn't prove it was intentional or whatever... but that's what he said.

[Zico]

don't bother with nitro and TBK, they will defend hamilton whatever happens. no point in trying to convince thim he did anything wrong.

but as long as hamilton's not involved they are ok to discuss with.

I know. I don't expect to convince them but the arguments offer as justification are pretty funny.

[Bagwan]

I know. I don't expect to convince them but the arguments offer as justification are pretty funny.

I especially like the lectures on proper racing .

But , I get confused when I'm right sometimes and then other times I have no idea what real racing is all about .

[Zico]

I especially like the lectures on proper racing .

But , I get confused when I'm right sometimes and then other times I have no idea what real racing is all about .


Me too Baggie, I guess we are all extremely privileged to have our resident expert here to keep us all in check.

[airshifter]

I knew Max wouldn't back out. He's not that kind of driver and has not learned that living to fight another day is sometimes the better option. Hamilton has learned this which is why he backed out in Spain and Imola but one driver cannot have it is way the entire time. But you've summed up on your post exactly why it is a racing incident, both drivers could have done things differently to avoid the incident.

Also, on Brundles quote


Brundle has contradicted himself in that sentence. You can't absolve Max of blame and then say he could have left a little more space, although I would change that to he "should" have left more space, just like LeClerc did even though Hamilton was further behind into Copse at that point than he was on Max. That's the difference between a driver using (LeClerc) and not using his brain (Max).

I really don't see that as a contradiction. You can always leave more room, or even back out of it completely and let the other driver have the corner.

But we will just have to agree to disagree on the matter regardless of what others think. I can appreciate that your opinion differs from mine and you have a right to it, and that you aren't one of the people engaging in the childish personal attacks but rather debating the issue at hand.





Here's my opinion on that .
Airshifter is one of the most un-biased posters we have here .

You are not .

Thanks Baggy. I guess through the years I've seen people get too wrapped up with the idol worship approach, and it's never suited me. I can't think of a single driver who hasn't got it wrong on plenty of occasions, and quite a few of them were considered some of the greatest. Some screwed it up less than others, but they all screwed it up at some point.

And though IMHO a mistake, I didn't think it was intentional on the part of Lewis. And it was a far shout from Schumacher putting the Hakk into the grass at 190 mph, even when the rule back then more or less allowed it. But in a similar sense, any risky move should weigh the potential consequences for both drivers, and 180 mph certainly isn't slow.

But.... much like yourself I'm not going to attack anyone over a difference of opinion.

[Nitrodaze]

I give up!

[truefan72]

Max left room for Lewis .
That is why Lewis got the penalty .

That my friend is laughable.
Max did not leave room for Hamilton and that is why they crashed.
Look at Palmers F1 video :41sec in as to what happened at the same corner on Saturday in the sprint race.
This is Saturday:
https://haluciondemo8.xyz/saturdayF1.jpg
Hamilton was on the outside and Max on the inside.
Max clear as day drifted his car towards the outside to not give Hamilton any room
Notice that Hamilton was slightly ahead, but chose not to turn in but sensibly back out.
He didn't squeeze max, and decided to stay wider even into the entrance of corpse.
but Max still veered towards the outside uncompromisingly.

This Sunday:
https://haluciondemo8.xyz/sundayF1.jpg
on Sunday Hamilton was on the inside and Max on the outside.
Hamilton did not move towards the outside to aggressively intimidate Max, as was the case on Saturday by Max.
didn't hear a peep from you folks about that. Or the fact that he further away from the "apex" that you cguys were blaming Hamilton for being on Sunday.
Hamilton stayed on the inside and Max. Verstappen had like 2 cars widths of room on the outside, which he could have moved to but chose to move towards the inside like nobody was there. All the while knowing fully that Hamilton was well in his inside.
He tried to be uncompromising, Hamilton refused to cede (probably what Max thought he was going to do) and there was a coming together.
That's is why most folks understood this to be a racing incident at worst.
I really don't understand what the 20 pages of back and forth is about, if it simply isn't Hamilton hate.
Anytime Hamilton is involved, the hate brigade is quick to jump on it.
Asking for rule changes, special laws and wholesale changes to the regs to "punish" Hamilton.
I never heard a peep about this when Max or anyone else was involved in similar incidents.
Those were racing incidents, but Hamilton...it's something else. I wonder what?
I suggest many on here take their time and actually reflect on what is motivating their comments. Because they are beyond unbalanced.
on to Hungary

[truefan72]

I really don't see that as a contradiction. You can always leave more room, or even back out of it completely and let the other driver have the corner.

But we will just have to agree to disagree on the matter regardless of what others think. I can appreciate that your opinion differs from mine and you have a right to it, and that you aren't one of the people engaging in the childish personal attacks but rather debating the issue at hand.






Thanks Baggy. I guess through the years I've seen people get too wrapped up with the idol worship approach, and it's never suited me. I can't think of a single driver who hasn't got it wrong on plenty of occasions, and quite a few of them were considered some of the greatest. Some screwed it up less than others, but they all screwed it up at some point.

And though IMHO a mistake, I didn't think it was intentional on the part of Lewis. And it was a far shout from Schumacher putting the Hakk into the grass at 190 mph, even when the rule back then more or less allowed it. But in a similar sense, any risky move should weigh the potential consequences for both drivers, and 180 mph certainly isn't slow.

But.... much like yourself I'm not going to attack anyone over a difference of opinion.

You are kidding right?
As Nitrodaze said; "I give up"
This is bizarro world stuff.
Being accused of Hero worship while simultaneously worshiping St. Max like he could do no wrong?
Dismissing all evidence to the contrary, including most professionals, other drivers and team managers?
To me this is like someone punching me in the face and accusing my head of getting in the way of their fist.
"Why is your head near my swinging fist in the first place. Why did you not duck down. or move your head to the left?
I mean I was aiming for your head, was trying to scare you but you didn't move. Now my finger is broken."
LMAO
Yeah

[Lutherg17]

Redbull and Max Verstappen fans are going to implode on this one!

These were the same individuals who found it ok when Max had played bumper karts with Charles in Austria GP 2019. Oh how the times have change!

[F1nKS]

Lewis got a penalty just because the drivers and teams have asked the FIA to stop drivers from "getting their elbows out". With the penalties they handed out last week and with Russell getting the 5 sec penalty for the slight tap on Sainz, they had to do something on Hamilton.

Warrick was on a f1 podcast last week and they asked him about the complaints about the stewards - he said they are calling it like the drivers have asked them to. He said if the drivers want them to give more leeway, they would. He said what they are saying in public (let them race) is much different than what they are saying in private.

[Fortitude]

HOMEMOTORSPORTFORMULA-ONE
New twist as evidence emerges to lay blame over Verstappen crash
Sports from Fox Sports
July 22nd, 2021 5:58 am
In a new twist, Formula 1 expert Martin Brundle has revealed Red Bull believes it has the data to prove Lewis Hamilton entered Copse corner on the first lap faster than any other during the Grand Prix.
Max Verstappen accused seven-time world champion Hamilton of being “dangerous, disrespectful and unsportsmanlike” following their collision at Silverstone on Sunday.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport/formula-one/formula-1-news-2021-max-verstappen-crash-evidence-lewis-hamilton-british-grand-prix-red-bull-mercedes-update/news-story/e407e249b406eee52338e75e21baed80


DAMON HILL
Hill: I've never seen Hamilton drive so aggressively
Yesterday, ‎19‎:‎15
Damon Hill believes that Lewis Hamilton was in full attack mode when he and Max Verstappen made contact on the first lap of the British Grand Prix.
F1 World Champion Damon Hill believes that a collision between Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen was inevitable at some point, and pointed out that he didn't think he'd ever seen Hamilton drive as aggressively against Verstappen as the first lap at Silverstone.
Hill, speaking on the F1 Nation podcast, outlined that he felt Hamilton's desperation to get ahead of Verstappen was due to what had happened in the Sprint Qualifying race on Saturday, where the Dutch driver took the lead and was able to control the race.
"I think it was inevitable, at some point there was going to be some coming together of the two, it was so aggressive," Hill said.
"I've never seen Lewis drive that aggressively. I'm racking my brains to think of a time, the only thing I can come up with is Barcelona [2016] with when it was with Nico Rosberg.
"It was full on attack mode. And I do wonder whether it was something to do with what happened the previous day in the sprint when he lost pole position."

https://racingnews365.com/hill-ive-never-seen-hamilton-drive-so-aggressively


‘Hamilton knows he will be dethroned by Verstappen’
Date published: July 21 2021 - Finley Crebolder

Dutch racing driver Tom Coronel says Lewis Hamilton is getting “stressed” by Max Verstappen as he knows the Red Bull man will dethrone him.
The title fight between the two was taken to another level at the British Grand Prix where the two made contact soon after the start, causing Verstappen to crash out of the race.
Hamilton went on to win and afterwards, the Dutchman slammed his celebrations as disrespectful, while the Mercedes man criticised his rival for being too aggressive.
Coronel feels the incident was further proof that Hamilton is struggling with the pressure put on him by Verstappen and the fact he knows he will be “dethroned”.
“I just see that Hamilton is getting stressed by Verstappen,” he told the Dutch branch of Motorsport.com.
“We’ve known that for three years because if he leads the way, he will ask where Max is.
“He just knows he is the all-time best and that he will be dethroned. We also know by whom.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-hamilton-max-verstappen-dethroned/


FORMULA 1
Rencken: I believe Red Bull intend to take this further
21st July 2021, ‎17‎:‎00
RN365 F1 journalist Dieter Rencken firmly believes that Red Bull are exploring every available avenue of review open to them over the Silverstone crash.
Red Bull are certain to be reviewing every single available opportunity open to them in terms of legal review of the Silverstone crash that took Max Verstappen out of the British Grand Prix, and left the team with a hefty repair bill for their extremely damaged RB16B.
That's the opinion of RacingNews365 F1 journalist Dieter Rencken, who told Thomas Maher on the RN365 F1 Podcast that Red Bull are exploring their rights to lodge a review of the steward's decision at Silverstone.
"I do believe they will. When I say I do believe they will, I know that they are investigating every possible avenue and opportunity," Rencken said, outlining that Red Bull have until Saturday of the Hungarian Grand Prix to lodge a request to review the steward's decision with the FIA.
"Whether that comes to something, I don't know. But, I think at the very, very least, they're going to ask for a review of the steward's decision, how they reached that decision based on what evidence, and I think that evidence will be absolutely crucial.
"Who knows? Just maybe, maybe it will show up that Lewis had done something which we can't explain. It could equally prove that Lewis did absolutely nothing wrong. And therefore I think that's welcome that they do take this on review."
Asked by Maher whether he believes Red Bull's comments regarding a rumoured hiring of sports lawyers to help investigate the circumstances of the collision, Rencken outlined that he doesn't believe that the team are blowing hot air.
"I don't call it bluster, I don't believe it's bluster at all," he said.

https://racingnews365.com/rencken-i-believe-red-bull-intend-to-take-this-further

[Nitrodaze]

That my friend is laughable.
Max did not leave room for Hamilton and that is why they crashed.
Look at Palmers F1 video :41sec in as to what happened at the same corner on Saturday in the sprint race.
This is Saturday:
https://haluciondemo8.xyz/saturdayF1.jpg
Hamilton was on the outside and Max on the inside.
Max clear as day drifted his car towards the outside to not give Hamilton any room
Notice that Hamilton was slightly ahead, but chose not to turn in but sensibly back out.
He didn't squeeze max, and decided to stay wider even into the entrance of corpse.
but Max still veered towards the outside uncompromisingly.

This Sunday:
https://haluciondemo8.xyz/sundayF1.jpg
on Sunday Hamilton was on the inside and Max on the outside.
Hamilton did not move towards the outside to aggressively intimidate Max, as was the case on Saturday by Max.
didn't hear a peep from you folks about that. Or the fact that he further away from the "apex" that you cguys were blaming Hamilton for being on Sunday.
Hamilton stayed on the inside and Max. Verstappen had like 2 cars widths of room on the outside, which he could have moved to but chose to move towards the inside like nobody was there. All the while knowing fully that Hamilton was well in his inside.
He tried to be uncompromising, Hamilton refused to cede (probably what Max thought he was going to do) and there was a coming together.
That's is why most folks understood this to be a racing incident at worst.
I really don't understand what the 20 pages of back and forth is about, if it simply isn't Hamilton hate.
Anytime Hamilton is involved, the hate brigade is quick to jump on it.
Asking for rule changes, special laws and wholesale changes to the regs to "punish" Hamilton.
I never heard a peep about this when Max or anyone else was involved in similar incidents.
Those were racing incidents, but Hamilton...it's something else. I wonder what?
I suggest many on here take their time and actually reflect on what is motivating their comments. Because they are beyond unbalanced.
on to Hungary


These chaps are bent on their views. The reality of what actually happened is of no concern to them. So l think you are wasting your time explaining to them. Verstappen's car could be on top of Hamilton's car and these chaps would fail to see it so.


One cannot have a reasonable conversation with people unwilling to at least stop and take in the facts and then objectively review it and accept some of their views might be incorrect. You can't reason with these sorts of people. Dialogue is pointless. It is this sort of mentality that drives division among peoples and provide the bedrock for prejudices of all sorts.

[The Black Knight]

I really don't see that as a contradiction. You can always leave more room, or even back out of it completely and let the other driver have the corner.

But we will just have to agree to disagree on the matter regardless of what others think. I can appreciate that your opinion differs from mine and you have a right to it, and that you aren't one of the people engaging in the childish personal attacks but rather debating the issue at hand.






Thanks Baggy. I guess through the years I've seen people get too wrapped up with the idol worship approach, and it's never suited me. I can't think of a single driver who hasn't got it wrong on plenty of occasions, and quite a few of them were considered some of the greatest. Some screwed it up less than others, but they all screwed it up at some point.

And though IMHO a mistake, I didn't think it was intentional on the part of Lewis. And it was a far shout from Schumacher putting the Hakk into the grass at 190 mph, even when the rule back then more or less allowed it. But in a similar sense, any risky move should weigh the potential consequences for both drivers, and 180 mph certainly isn't slow.

But.... much like yourself I'm not going to attack anyone over a difference of opinion.

I honestly find it very hard to reconcile your opinion and how you can't see that both Saturday and Sunday were very similar but the other way around. I agree, we'll have to agree to disagree but I'm scratching my head here at people that think Hamilton was solely to blame for something Max clearly had and that we've shown has responsibility in as well.

Anyway, it's great to see this topic has somewhat ignited this forum again. It's been too quiet the last number of years.

[Nitrodaze]

Me too Baggie, I guess we are all extremely privileged to have our resident expert here to keep us all in check.

You chaps keep going on about Verstappen being on the racing line. Well check this video out, it explains the lines that both drivers took into the corner. And why Verstappen is seen to have a share in the fault of the crash occurring. And why the stewards gave Hamilton a 10 seconds penalty.

Note:- The white line is the ideal racing line through the corner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikWhv-1w5E


I also refer you to Peter Windsor who gives a brilliant objective analysis of the race

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4cFQAaIdo0

We haven't said much about Leclerc. We saw enough to know that he would have won races this year if the Ferrari was anywhere as good as the Redbull or Mercedes. He has to wait his turn, but for now, he shall be there to pick up the pieces when Redbull and Mercedes get it wrong.

He raised a very important question as well. Where was Bottas when all of that drama was going on? With the Mercedes speed, he pointed out that Bottas should have won the race. But he drove the most uninspired race of the weekend while many others shined.

I think he has done enough to lose his seat next season. He is failing to deliver the level of expectation of the second seat which is to lead the race if Hamilton is unable to do so for whatever reason. He had a bad start but did very little to recover from it and was stuck behind the Mclaren with zero desire to get ahead and try to get in the mix of the front two to benefit from any mishap that might occur.

[The Black Knight]

You chaps keep going on about Verstappen being on the racing line. Well check this video out, it explains the lines that both drivers took into the corner. And why Verstappen is seen to have a share in the fault of the crash occurring. And why the stewards gave Hamilton a 10 seconds penalty.

Note:- The white line is the ideal racing line through the corner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ikWhv-1w5E


I also refer you to Peter Windsor who gives a brilliant objective analysis of the race

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4cFQAaIdo0

We haven't said much about Leclerc. We saw enough to know that he would have won races this year if the Ferrari was anywhere as good as the Redbull opr Mercedes. He has to wait his turn, but for now he shall be there to pickup the pieces when Redbull amd Mercedes get it wrong.

He raised a very important question as well. Where was Bottas when all of that drama was going on? With the Mercedes speed, he pointed out that Bottas should have won the race. But he drove the most uninspired race of the weekend while many others shined.

I think he has done enough to lose his seat next season. He is failing to deliver the level of expectation of the second seat which is to lead the race if Hamilton is unable to do so for whatever reason. He had a bad start but did very little to recover from it and was stuck behind the Mclaren with zero desire to get ahead and try to get in the mix of the front two to benefit from any mishap that might occur.

Another point on Bottas is he actually had the optimal Mercedes strategy this race and he was still very poor. As I said before, I've already heard the decision is made and Russell is going to Mercedes next year. He has done nowhere near enough to hold onto his seat.

[Fortitude]

FORMULA 1
Hamilton more often involved in racing incidents than Verstappen
22nd July 2021, ‎08‎:‎40
Max Verstappen is often portrayed as an aggressive driving driver. Someone who drives at the limit and, according to some, regularly goes over it, while Lewis Hamilton has the image of a very clean driver. Are their respective images correct?
Author Ruud Dimmers

https://racingnews365.com/who-is-involved-in-more-on-track-incidents-hamilton-or-verstappen


Honda’s Yamamoto ‘worried’ about Verstappen engine damage
ANDREW MAITLAND
JULY 22, 2021

Red Bull has revealed that Verstappen’s chassis is a total write-off, but the extent to the damage to the Honda engine is less clear.
“I just pray that the power unit is safe,” Yamamoto admitted.

If the engine is scrap, though, that is another major blow to championship leader Verstappen’s title hopes.

“I don’t want to think about that,” said Yamamoto, “but if it happens, we’ll have to think about whether to race with the first or the third engine.

“There are only three engines a year, so it is essential to get it right. I’m worried when I think about the championship battle,” he admitted.

https://grandpx.news/hondas-yamamoto-worried-about-verstappen-engine-damage/


Marko predicts ‘even more tense’ rivalry with Mercedes
Date published: July 22 2021 - Jon Wilde

Helmut Marko has acknowledged the relationship between Mercedes and Red Bull after the British Grand Prix will become “even more tense”.

The battle for supremacy between the two World Championship contenders had already been getting increasingly less friendly at team principal level this season.

Toto Wolff and Christian Horner, aided and abetted by Red Bull advisor Marko, have traded insults and threats of protests about each other’s cars.

The drivers, Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen, had been keeping things cleaner on and off track until they collided on the opening lap at Silverstone, with the Dutchman’s car flying into the barrier and out of the race with a 51G impact.

Afterwards, Verstappen criticised his rival’s “disrespectful” and “unsportsmanlike” behaviour for celebrating victory jubilantly at a time when he was in hospital undergoing checks that lasted for a period of several hours.

Marko has reiterated that Red Bull will not seek revenge for what happened, instead happy to let their car do the talking, but does think the rivalry could become even more bitter and fierce as the campaign progresses.

“The relationship will become even more tense. Put it this way, it was never relaxed,” said Marko during an interview with RTL.

“It’s exciting for the spectators. we will behave within fair sporting methods.

“Nothing will upset us. We can’t abandon our concept. We know we have a great package with car, driver and chassis.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut-marko-tense-mercedes-rivalry/


[B]Ecclestone Calls 10-Second Penalty on Hamilton at F1 British Grand Prix a 'Joke'
Hamilton's all-or-nothing takeout of championship rival Max Verstappen has tightened points chase.
BY GLOBAL MOTORSPORTS MEDIA
Jul 21, 2021

Former Formula 1 chief executive Bernie Ecclestone has joined those who believe Lewis Hamilton should have been more harshly penalized for his clash with title rival Max Verstappen at Silverstone.

One round of the former F1 supremo's criticism had already reached Hamilton prior to the incident, when Ecclestone said the Mercedes driver is no longer "the fighter he was." But now, while yachting off the coast of Croatia with his wife and 1-year-old child, 90-year-old Ecclestone is offering his two cents on Formula 1's latest big controversy.

"Lewis' actions did not surprise me," Ecclestone told veteran F1 journalist Roger Benoit. "After five defeats, he had fallen into a deep mental depression and lacked the necessary concentration.

"And since Max is always rock hard, Hamilton played poker and went all-in," Ecclestone told European media outlet Blick newspaper.

Ecclestone was highly critical of the stewards' decision to impose only a 10-second time penalty for the incident that left Verstappen briefly in hospital.

"What you could do is let the two best drivers loose and then talk about a racing accident," Ecclestone said. "But if they think it was dangerous, then a 10-second penalty is a joke. I would have given at least a 30-second penalty."

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a37094458/ecclestone-calls-10-second-penalty-on-hamilton-at-f1-british-grand-prix-a-joke/

[Nitrodaze]

Another point on Bottas is he actually had the optimal Mercedes strategy this race and he was still very poor. As I said before, I've already heard the decision is made and Russell is going to Mercedes next year. He has done nowhere near enough to hold onto his seat.

Yep, he failed to deliver in the sprint with faster red-walled tyres that should have put him well in the mix of the fight for the lead of the race but faded backwards. In the main race, a very poor start that put him in the clutches of the Mclarens behind. Then he simply just stayed there until he was helped by the Mercedes pit wall to take advantage of Norris' poor pitstop. He certainly did not deserve the podium position. Norris earned it until the McLaren pit crew threw it away.

[joe1888cfc]

Who's got the most penalty points on their licences now or in past 12 months.
Yet folk claim max is the dangerous driver here!
I can see where your coming from with Max's line into corner but surely as the leading car he can put his car in s position to make it hard for the car trying to get past.
Hamilton carried way to much speed in a desperate attempt to pass, never got close to the apex (where max had left room) and continued to hit max and send him into the wall.

[The Black Knight]

Who's got the most penalty points on their licences now or in past 12 months.
Yet folk claim max is the dangerous driver here!
I can see where your coming from with Max's line into corner but surely as the leading car he can put his car in s position to make it hard for the car trying to get past.
Hamilton carried way to much speed in a desperate attempt to pass, never got close to the apex (where max had left room) and continued to hit max and send him into the wall.

The penalty point system is a joke. There's no consistency and some of the PP that Lando Norris has picked up are laughable.

There's a line between making it hard to pass and doing what Max did. Max can make it hard to pass by taking a wider arc and maintaining more speed, and I dare say, this would have been the most likely move to succeed. Other drivers like Leclerc know this instinctively but Max appears to have an I'll give them as little legal room as possible attitude. This is what we mean by him being uncompromising. Being tough on your opponents is not the same as being smart.

Legally, by the way, neither driver technically did anything wrong but both could have used better judgement.

[joe1888cfc]

The penalty point system is a joke. There's no consistency and some of the PP that Lando Norris has picked up are laughable.

There's a line between making it hard to pass and doing what Max did. Max can make it hard to pass by taking a wider arc and maintaining more speed, and I dare say, this would have been the most likely move to succeed. Other drivers like Leclerc know this instinctively but Max appears to have an I'll give them as little legal room as possible attitude. This is what we mean by him being uncompromising. Being tough on your opponents is not the same as being smart.

Legally, by the way, neither driver technically did anything wrong but both could have used better judgement.That may be true but Hamilton had ten points at one stage in 2020 while max still has zero. There's a big difference.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Bagwan]

That may be true but Hamilton had ten points at one stage in 2020 while max still has zero. There's a big difference.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

I've read that Hamilton has a halo and Max has a dunce cap with devil horns .
That's a big difference .

[Nitrodaze]

I've read that Hamilton has a halo and Max has a dunce cap with devil horns .
That's a big difference .

Over exaggeration

No one is calling Verstappen a dunce and you know it. He is one of the most exciting racers to watch, but he is still green around the ears. He still makes immature mistakes of not knowing which battle to fight and which ones to let go and fight again another day. He puts it all on the line each time with a costly result when it does not go his way. He has gambled with his 33 points lead [and his life l might add]; all in. And has come out of it with a net 8 points lead to show for it. Now, that was very smart, wasn't it?

You guys are unbelievable.

[Zico]

:o

Breaking news, Hamilton arrested for attempted murder...

Wow...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wbtw.com/news/man-released-on-bond-for-manslaughter-attempted-murder-charges-arrested-again-in-another-shooting-incident/amp/