2021 Race 9 - Austrian Grand Prix

[F1nKS]

Maybe rain will surprise us since they missed the forecast last week. Has anybody heard what they are doing differently for the double-header?

[F1nKS]

Mercedes is bring Aero upgrades, power unit upgrade and cleaning up some bits and pieces here and there.

Slight change of rain.

[airshifter]

A wet race would be nice. We can only hope.

And I'm betting some setups and equipment changes will be present across the grid. Having a double header doesn't mean the same outcome. Silverstone last year showed us what can happen in a short period of time.

[F1nKS]

Lewis has found some additional pace. Leads FP2.

1. Hamilton 1:04.523
2. Bottas 1:04.712
3. Verstappen 1:04.740

last week Verstappen was 1:05.412 in FP2.

[Nitrodaze]

Lewis has found some additional pace. Leads FP2.

1. Hamilton 1:04.523
2. Bottas 1:04.712
3. Verstappen 1:04.740

last week Verstappen was 1:05.412 in FP2.

These are not headline times. Considering pole last weekend was 1.03.841 by Verstappen. Mercedes would be back in their usual positions behind Verstappen on Saturday.

[Zico]

[QUOTE=Nitrodaze;1276249]These are not headline times. Considering pole last weekend was 1.03.841 by Verstappen. Mercedes would be back in their usual positions behind Verstappen on..

Lewis will get pole. Anyone fancy a wager... the loser has to shave his head?

[F1nKS]

These are not headline times.

Different weekend, different weather, different tires.


Considering pole last weekend was 1.03.841 by Verstappen. Mercedes would be back in their usual positions behind Verstappen on Saturday.

Meh, the weaxf gods know you schtick and they are not amused.

In your honor they will allow Hamilton to get pole (The data already shows Mercedes is quicker this weekend), Bottas will be second. Bottas on the start will take out Hamilton and it will be Vertstappen, Perez and Norris 1-2-3.

[Tazio]

Pip, pip, pip, pip! :beer:

[F1nKS]

Out in Q1

Raikken
Ocon - new contract = total suck
Latifi
Haas Boys

Leading Q1
1. Max
2. Norris
3. Alonso - the surprise of Q1

[F1nKS]

Out in Q2

Ferrari boys
Ricardo - he just can't get any positive momentum on this season
Alonso - his lap was ruined by Vettel
GIO

Leading Q2
1. Max
2. Hamilton
3. Bottas

Russel makes it through ahead of Ferrari!

Vettel will likely get a penalty

[Tazio]

Fettel!! :angryfire :fasttalk::grenade:

[F1nKS]

1. Verstappen 1:03.720
2. Norris 1:03.768
3. Perez 1:03.990
4. Hamilton 1:04.014
5. Bottas 1:04.049
6. Gasly
7. Yuki Train
8. Vettel
9. Russell
10. Stroll

Norris surprises and almost takes poll. Russell with excellent qualifying.

No Mercedes post-qualifying prime-time interviews.

[Nitrodaze]

What a turn of events. The Mclaren is now faster than the Mercedes. Lando Norris a future star to watch out for. Wow, almost pinched poll from Verstappen.

Williams in the top 10. Great drive from Russell. He just keeps knocking on that Mercedes door. He would probably start 8th if Vettel is penalized for obstructing Alonso. That would be his best grid start for Williams and probably Williams' best start in five years

If you have any doubt that Mercedes is done this season, here it is. They are clearly three-tenths of the Redbull outright pace.

[F1nKS]

What a turn of events. The Mclaren is now faster than the Mercedes. Lando Norris a future star to watch out for. Wow, almost pinched poll from Verstappen.

Williams in the top 10. Great drive from Russell. He just keeps knocking on that Mercedes door.

It seems Mclaren is still developing their car. It was noted that they now have better straight line speed than Mercedes.

[Nitrodaze]

These are not headline times. Considering pole last weekend was 1.03.841 by Verstappen. Mercedes would be back in their usual positions behind Verstappen on..

Lewis will get pole. Anyone fancy a wager... the loser has to shave his head?

Well, you better shave your head and put a pic on here for us to see it Zico.

[F1nKS]

Well, you better shave your head and put a pic on here for us to see it Zico.

And please post a before and after picture!

[Nitrodaze]

And please post a before and after picture!

Ha ha ha :-)

[Fortitude]

FORMULA 1 BWT GROSSER PREIS VON ÖSTERREICH 2021 - QUALIFYING

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1071/austria.html

[F1nKS]

Vettel hit with 3 spot penalty.

[Zico]

Interesting Qualy with some real surprises. Russell beating the Ferraris was a real wow moment and will do his Merc seat prospects no harm at all.
Still cant get my head round how Norris got so close to Max with that stunning lap while Danny still hasn't got to grips with the Mac at all. If he keeps going at this rate Lando could be the biggest standout of the season.

[airshifter]

Vettel hit with 3 spot penalty.

I really think Seb got screwed on this one. Watching the on board, I was like everyone else, wondering what he was thinking. Watching the overhead view drivers tracker, Seb and Sergio accelerated when they could, and the real problem were in front of them. At a bare minimum, from Bottas back should have a penalty if Seb does. And really more of the field should probably. Without setting a delta time, they are allowing drivers to slow way too much and bunch up the pack. It really goes all the way back to Leclerc and Max, and gets even worse after them.


Stolen from another place......

https://streamable.com/xfblsj





Other than that rant, absolute monster lap by Norris, pushing the car right to the edge IMHO. Well deserved front row start. And Russell as well, we know that Williams doesn't belong in the top 10 with most drivers. The reds are hurting, the AT cars both in the top, and the Aston's doing well on pace also.

It seem like track temp is going to play a big role in pace, and it should be interesting to see who 1 stops and who 2 stops.



Really Lando was the only one just appearing to try to get on with it. Everyone else to some extent seemed to be playing the "hold them up" game, and a good portion of the pack caused the mess that Seb is going to pay for.

[The Black Knight]

I really think Seb got screwed on this one. Watching the on board, I was like everyone else, wondering what he was thinking. Watching the overhead view drivers tracker, Seb and Sergio accelerated when they could, and the real problem were in front of them. At a bare minimum, from Bottas back should have a penalty if Seb does. And really more of the field should probably. Without setting a delta time, they are allowing drivers to slow way too much and bunch up the pack. It really goes all the way back to Leclerc and Max, and gets even worse after them.


Stolen from another place......

https://streamable.com/xfblsj





Other than that rant, absolute monster lap by Norris, pushing the car right to the edge IMHO. Well deserved front row start. And Russell as well, we know that Williams doesn't belong in the top 10 with most drivers. The reds are hurting, the AT cars both in the top, and the Aston's doing well on pace also.

It seem like track temp is going to play a big role in pace, and it should be interesting to see who 1 stops and who 2 stops.



Really Lando was the only one just appearing to try to get on with it. Everyone else to some extent seemed to be playing the "hold them up" game, and a good portion of the pack caused the mess that Seb is going to pay for.

Yeah I was watching this as it unfolded and knew Alonso was going to get screwed. I think it looks like Bottas gives too much of a gap to Russell and it cascades from there but it's all fine margins.

There's a way for the FIA to sort all of this, fixed time slots. Every driver does two runs in Q3, has a timeslot and fixed lap time to get round the track before their qualifying lap begins based on their Q2 finishing position. They don't make it, they lose their Q3 run.

[F1nKS]

Yeah I was watching this as it unfolded and knew Alonso was going to get screwed. I think it looks like Bottas gives too much of a gap to Russell and it cascades from there but it's all fine margins.

There's a way for the FIA to sort all of this, fixed time slots. Every driver does two runs in Q3, has a timeslot and fixed lap time to get round the track before their qualifying lap begins based on their Q2 finishing position. They don't make it, they lose their Q3 run.

Or you just give a minimum lap time or face a 3 lap penalty and you stop it all.

[The Black Knight]

Or you just give a minimum lap time or face a 3 lap penalty and you stop it all.
Minimum lap time won't cut it when two cars head out simultaneously

[Zico]

Norris, 5 sec penalty.. Have it one way or have it the other but don't change it depending on who it is to manipulate the race/championship. Where is the consistency? Surprised at Warwick..

[F1nKS]

Norris, 5 sec penalty.. Have it one way or have it the other but don't change it depending on who it is to manipulate the race/championship. Where is the consistency? Surprised at Warwick..

BS penalty on Norris. Perez was stupid and was punished by the track. Perez just needed to be patient.

[F1nKS]

Perez day just got worse with 5 second penalty for not being able to beat a Ferrari.

Just when you think that Perez has figured it out what his role is he has a race day like this.

[Bagwan]

BS penalty on Norris. Perez was stupid and was punished by the track. Perez just needed to be patient.

You are required to leave enough track for a competitor who you know is right beside you .
It's that simple .

[Nitrodaze]

You are required to leave enough track for a competitor who you know is right beside you .
It's that simple .

Are you still hanging on to your conspiracy theory Baggie? Surely you see now that Mercedes is in trouble.

[F1nKS]

Are you still hanging on to your conspiracy theory Baggie? Surely you see now that Mercedes is in trouble.

If Mercedes is not able to bounce back in England in 2 weeks, then I will agree with you that Mercedes is in trouble.

[F1nKS]

You are required to leave enough track for a competitor who you know is right beside you .
It's that simple .

Horner even agreed it was a racing incident.

[F1nKS]

If Mercedes is not able to bounce back in England in 2 weeks, then I will agree with you that Mercedes is in trouble.

Bottas has already spoken on it and expects Mercedes to be at the top in 2 weeks.


"The difference is more than obvious at this circuit, but in two weeks everything will look different again."

[Tazio]

TEN drivers under investigation for late Austrian GP infringements


With double-waved yellows on the final lap for the crash, Pierre Gasly (https://www.gpfans.com/en/driver/123/pierre-gasly/), Daniel Ricciardo (https://www.gpfans.com/en/driver/90/daniel-ricciardo/), Antonio Giovinazzi (https://www.gpfans.com/en/driver/133/antonio-giovinazzi/), Nicholas Latifi, Charles Leclerc (https://www.gpfans.com/en/driver/135/charles-leclerc/), Carlos Sainz (https://www.gpfans.com/en/driver/110/carlos-sainz/), Sergio Perez (https://www.gpfans.com/en/driver/88/sergio-perez/) and Nikita Mazepin are all under investigation for failing to respect the flags. Plus Kimi, and George!


Dawgz!! :dog: :eek: :dog: :eek:
https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67028/ten-drivers-under-investigation-for-late-austrian-gp-infringements/

[Bagwan]

Are you still hanging on to your conspiracy theory Baggie? Surely you see now that Mercedes is in trouble.

The Merc motor was quick for the Macs , and even had George looking in with a shout .
The Bulls were supposed to be fast here . Why mess with that idea when it plays into the plan ?
I didn't see the damage that caused Lewis to have a 'torrid" race . Did you ?

I did hear Lewis compliment Lando during that "torrid" race . Nice he had the time to up another competitor in the "torrid" of it all .

Lewis is altogether too relaxed about the whole situation for this to be the new reality .


It all may seem fetched a bit far to those not sitting here in the conspiracy corner , and I get that .
It's suspicion I've had from the very first race this year , and I'll be more than happy to find it to be untrue , but I'll keep pointing to the facts that run in the same direction .

To go along with the theory , with a track that suits them , it would seem to be the time for Lewis to win the next one , but not by much .
And , George will get his first point for Williams after being announced as driving for Merc next year .

[Bagwan]

Horner even agreed it was a racing incident.

He's not a steward .

[The Black Knight]

Norris, 5 sec penalty.. Have it one way or have it the other but don't change it depending on who it is to manipulate the race/championship. Where is the consistency? Surprised at Warwick..

I'm not. Warwick has always been a clown Steward. He was the Steward for Q3 Monaco 2014 for one of the most blatant acts of cheating we've ever witnessed in F1 and he gave Rosberg no penalty. He was, I'm pretty certain, a Steward for Baku 2017 as well and, instead of black flagging Vettel as should have been done, just gave him 10 second stop go.

There have been countless times I can remember Warwick bottling it. He has no business being in the Stewards room.

[airshifter]

A much more interesting race than the 1st overall, and plenty of action.

Lando did a killer job to keep Lewis behind him for that many laps. He used the car at the right places to defend, and managed to make it stick for 20 laps. DOTR for sure.

As for the penalties, I thought only the second one was legit. For Perez on Lando, Perez dove into a hole that was disappearing, and Leclerc did the same on Perez the second time. The first Leclerc bump by Perez I thought was penalty worthy, as the punt happened earlier and caused the off. And later in the race, the Russell vs Alonso battle showed how it works when both drivers use some common sense and yield when they are beaten.

And for Merc, that time stuck behind Lando was a race killer. Though it turned out that Lewis had some damage to his car and struggled from there on out, that was free time for Max to make a gap and only fight if he needed. I was actually shocked that Merc told Bottas to hold station while they thought it over, since it was obvious that Lando would be coming back fairly quickly. At least they figured it out and let Bottas go, even then it looked for a few laps like Lando might be able to catch up. Merc seem confident that they made up a lot of pace, and the pace deficit was caused by the damage.

Perez really choked this race IMHO. He forced a bad move, and paid a hefty price for it. I suspect that he would have struggled to get by the Mclaren, but he would have been one more car in the buffer between the race lead and the Mercs. He should have been 3rd at worst really, and ended up being lucky to recover to 6th.


Danny Ric finally made it all come together fairly well.

Ferrari bounced back better than I expected, and were smart to let Sainz blow by Leclerc at the end.

As for Russell, his defense on Alonso was just as good as Lando up front. Enough that he even got praise from Fernando on the matter. Shame he couldn't stay up in the top 10, but we all know how ruthless Alonso is once he smells blood.

Decent but quiet drive for Gasly. Yuki matches Sergio in penalties, and another case of a driver getting the same thing wrong twice.

Kimi and Seb.... well that looked sloppy Kimi! I'm not sure what happened there, but it did!

[Nitrodaze]

The Merc motor was quick for the Macs , and even had George looking in with a shout .
The Bulls were supposed to be fast here . Why mess with that idea when it plays into the plan ?
I didn't see the damage that caused Lewis to have a 'torrid" race . Did you ?
.

Yep, l did. He ran out wide over the ribbed sausage kerbs which wrecked the undertray and parts of under the rear. From that point, he was limping home.

I suppose we shall see how the second half of the season goes. From what we have seen so far, only the F1M plan is obvious. Mercedes is properly scappered!

[airshifter]

Minimum lap time won't cut it when two cars head out simultaneously

I think it still would. If one of them doesn't accelerate more and create a gap, then they both run the risk of running too closely together. Since we already seem to have an issue with outlaps of varied pace, just create a cut off point where "beyond turn x" all cars must remain in position while maintaining the speed delta. That would end last minute ditch attempts to get by traffic because a driver stayed in the pits too long.

And FYI, I don't really dislike your idea on the matter either. It would put more emphasis on Q2, which might be a good thing. It might also add some action... if someone uses up too much tire in Q2 to get the better slot in Q3, they would start the race on tires that took more abuse and possibly be more prone to lack pace in the first stint.




The Merc motor was quick for the Macs , and even had George looking in with a shout .
The Bulls were supposed to be fast here . Why mess with that idea when it plays into the plan ?
I didn't see the damage that caused Lewis to have a 'torrid" race . Did you ?

I did hear Lewis compliment Lando during that "torrid" race . Nice he had the time to up another competitor in the "torrid" of it all .

Lewis is altogether too relaxed about the whole situation for this to be the new reality .


It all may seem fetched a bit far to those not sitting here in the conspiracy corner , and I get that .
It's suspicion I've had from the very first race this year , and I'll be more than happy to find it to be untrue , but I'll keep pointing to the facts that run in the same direction .

To go along with the theory , with a track that suits them , it would seem to be the time for Lewis to win the next one , but not by much .
And , George will get his first point for Williams after being announced as driving for Merc next year .

TBH I think Lewis has just had more issues this year, and that is where the primary problem is. I don't know if it's just a bad start to the season for him, or if having such a huge car advantage has softened him some with time. Now that RB are finding more pace and can compete, those small things are adding up. Lately Lewis seems to just point at the team, and in all fairness I suspect that Merc have not spent as much time on this years car when compared to RB.

But at the same time, Merc claimed that the damage cost them dearly, and seems to be confident that their pace was on par with RB in this second race, and that only the damage and Lando caused the weekend to be such a mess.


I do try to take your views seriously, even if they come from the conspiracy corner. But now you're even including George in your predictions? That must be the crystal ball in the conspiracy corner!

[Bagwan]

"I do try to take your views seriously, even if they come from the conspiracy corner. But now you're even including George in your predictions? That must be the crystal ball in the conspiracy corner!"

George fits with the "plucky underdog" image for next year , after they make their "nobody could believe it" comeback later this season .
And , the German juggernaut , running two bulldogs , will truly be the darling team for the Brits .
It fits with the plan . It's a big plan . They are a big force .

Making it look difficult is probably more difficult than just winning easily , but when you are met with a "tired of it" response to your success , it seems worth the trouble .
That's the base for my suspicions .
The spate of uncharacteristic mistakes that just keep on coming from such a precision instrument as Merc points to a red fish at this point still for me .

[Bagwan]

Yep, l did. He ran out wide over the ribbed sausage kerbs which wrecked the undertray and parts of under the rear. From that point, he was limping home.

I suppose we shall see how the second half of the season goes. From what we have seen so far, only the F1M plan is obvious. Mercedes is properly scappered!

That's what they said happened , but did you actually see the damage ?

[Nitrodaze]

That's what they said happened , but did you actually see the damage ?

Steady now. Do we have to see the damage when we saw it happen?

[Bagwan]

Steady now. Do we have to see the damage when we saw it happen?

The commentators said they hadn't seen anything come off the car as I recall .
Did you ?
Usually , we would be shown a few shots of the damage causing a top car to be slow during the telecast but I didn't see any .
Curious , eh ?

[F1nKS]

He's not a steward .

Well evidently different stewards have different ideas of how to apply the rules. There have been much more egregious incidents than the Norris/Perez even with no penalty. That lack of consistency is not acceptable and should be called out.

[henners88]

The FIA need to review the rules in regards to pushing a competitor off the track IMO. I know it is against the rules but there seems to be an unwritten guideline depending on the outer track surface which the rules do not mention. If you push someone wide whilst defending and there is a run off area, it escapes the stewards review. If you do it and there is gravel, it clearly carries a 5 second penalty as we saw in Austria. They either decide it is enforceable all of the time or they amend the rules regarding outer track surfaces. The last race was sort of dampened by these interventions and it took the shine off what was developing into a good fight.

[Bagwan]

The FIA need to review the rules in regards to pushing a competitor off the track IMO. I know it is against the rules but there seems to be an unwritten guideline depending on the outer track surface which the rules do not mention. If you push someone wide whilst defending and there is a run off area, it escapes the stewards review. If you do it and there is gravel, it clearly carries a 5 second penalty as we saw in Austria. They either decide it is enforceable all of the time or they amend the rules regarding outer track surfaces. The last race was sort of dampened by these interventions and it took the shine off what was developing into a good fight.

Welcome back , dude .

I get what you're saying , but isn't that kind of consistent with how much time the driver that is forced off is losing in a gravel run-off compared to a paved area ?

[henners88]

Welcome back , dude .

I get what you're saying , but isn't that kind of consistent with how much time the driver that is forced off is losing in a gravel run-off compared to a paved area ?

Thanks

That would be fine as long as the rules define the difference but the rules reference simply ‘leaving the track’. It’s probably why so many of the current drivers and ex drivers have been asking this same question over the past week.

[Bagwan]

Thanks

That would be fine as long as the rules define the difference but the rules reference simply ‘leaving the track’. It’s probably why so many of the current drivers and ex drivers have been asking this same question over the past week.

You're welcome , and I hope you stick around this time .
Even though your opinions are always wrong(hee hee) , they would be very welcome around here as we're down to a pretty small number of regulars .

As to the rule , I think it's fair , as long as the guy outside is right beside the other guy .
You need to be able to try to pass on the outside , and so if you can get the front plane of your front tire to break the plane at the rear of your opponent's front tire on the inside , at a defined point (halfway) through the corner , I think you should achieve the right to a car width .
It's hard to see beside you in these cars , so , it seems they do need to define it in some way , so we don't have any argument in these situations .