2021 Race 6 - Baku

[F1nKS]

Baku - Bottas should have good feelings for this one, but rumors swirl that decisions been made - Bottas is out for 2022. Wolf throws Bottas under the bus


Wolff said Bottas had been partly at fault – for pulling up slightly short of his markers.

“Valtteri stopped a little too early,” said Wolff

So will this drama effect Baku? Does Hamilton bounce back? Or is Verstappen a real challenger?

[F1nKS]

2019 Baku Results

Practice 1 - Practice 1 was disrupted with loose drain cover.
Practice 2 - Leclerc 1:42.872
Practice 3 - Leclerc 1:41.604

Qualifying
1. Bottas 1:40.495
2. Hamilton 1:40.554
3. Vettel 1:40.797

[F1nKS]

Horner on Baku


Mercedes have been mighty there but we did win with Daniel in 2017. It is an unforgiving street circuit and anything can happen. Overtaking is possible, unlike at Monte Carlo, and the characteristics of the circuit are very interesting.


Of course it will also be interesting to see too if Ferrari's form carries through because that will be great for the championship. Seeing six cars in contention and fighting for wins is better than having just two.

[Nitrodaze]

Who is going to win this race? Simple one name answer please.

[F1nKS]

Hamilton

[MP4Eedz]

I'm hoping the back and forth with Carlos and Lando is accurate and Mclaren can put similar pressure on Mercedes and Red Bull in Baku that Ferrari out in Monaco... but who knows.

Hoping Red Bull score well, Mclaren get a podium and Ricciardo finds some speed in the car.

[Nitrodaze]

Who is going to win this race? Simple one name answer please.

Verstapenn

[Tazio]

'stappen

[Fortitude]

Results from practice 1

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1068/azerbaijan/practice-1.html

Results from practice 2

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1068/azerbaijan/practice-2.html

[F1nKS]

Results from practice 1

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1068/azerbaijan/practice-1.html

Results from practice 2

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1068/azerbaijan/practice-2.html

FP1 - Max 1:43.184

FP2 - Perez 1:42.115

[F1nKS]

As bad as Mercedes look as far as qualifying pace FP2, they still have overnight to get things fixed for FP3.

2111

Their race pace is still there. One thing we know is Hamilton tires will degrade less than Max, and Hamilton will have the advantage late. If they get their tire issues warmup issue under control, Hamilton will be in position to steal this race away from Verstappen

2111

[airshifter]

It's time to see how Merc deal with the pressure. Unless they are completely sandbagging (which I doubt myself), they look to still be on the bad foot. Maybe they are the first to show the impact of the budget cuts, or maybe they just have the wrong people in some key positions, but it surely isn't making Toto's life any easier. But then again, maybe it's all "bendy wing" drama, and the setup will suddenly improve in P3 and Qual.

I tend to think they will have a sudden surge of pace for qually, and overall race pace won't be too terrible.

[F1nKS]

Maybe DAS was more important to Mercedes last year than we really knew. According to Bottas they need multiple laps to get their tires in the right temperature.

[truefan72]

Lol @ verstappen bemoaning the crashes in qualy like he himself didn’t crash in Q3. Talk about the kettle calling the pot black. Smh

[Fortitude]

FORMULA 1 AZERBAIJAN GRAND PRIX 2021 - PRACTICE 3

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1068/azerbaijan/practice-3.html

FORMULA 1 AZERBAIJAN GRAND PRIX 2021 - QUALIFYING

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/races/1068/azerbaijan/qualifying.html

[F1nKS]

Qualifying

1. Leclerc
2. Hamilton
3. Verstappen
4. Gasly
5. Sainz
6. Norris
7. Perez
8. Yuki
9. Alonso
10. Bottas

[F1nKS]

Qualifying

1. Leclerc
2. Hamilton
3. Verstappen
4. Gasly
5. Sainz
6. Norris
7. Perez
8. Yuki
9. Alonso
10. Bottas

Fun qualifying. It is a lot more interesting when there are 3 or 4 teams fighting for pole instead of Mercedes 1/2. A lot of drama in this one.

Hamilton looked to be poised to win this. He even admitted that even though their 1 lap pace is not as good as he would like, their "Race Pace" is good.

Bottas - make you wonder if he knows he is out of Mercedes next year. He looks to be pulling a Vettel.

Vertstappen still has underachieved in qualifying.

Perez - looked promising this weekend up to the point where it mattered.

[F1nKS]

It's time to see how Merc deal with the pressure. Unless they are completely sandbagging (which I doubt myself), they look to still be on the bad foot. Maybe they are the first to show the impact of the budget cuts, or maybe they just have the wrong people in some key positions, but it surely isn't making Toto's life any easier. But then again, maybe it's all "bendy wing" drama, and the setup will suddenly improve in P3 and Qual.

I tend to think they will have a sudden surge of pace for qually, and overall race pace won't be too terrible.

Just like that Hamilton is able to "find the time" overnight.

[truefan72]

Alos the Norrsi penalty is completely absurd. Guy was doing over 300kph when the red lights came on as he was approaching the pit entry.
it is beyond ludicrous to expect the driver to slow the car down and enter the pit lane in that circumstance.
The stewards are a complete joke.
I would make Masi and co get into the 2 seater, fly down the baku straight and then let them see what happens if they tried to make it into the pits under those circumstances.
a complete joke!

[airshifter]

Just like that Hamilton is able to "find the time" overnight.

Must be the bendy wings! :laugh:


Great qual ruined by yet another red flag. It looked like the top positions were all up for grabs still, with Ferrari showing surprising pace, and Merc and RB doing very well also. It seems that the Mercs still have the top end advantage, and the RB is better in the slow stuff. It could leave things dicey if they get stuck behind Ferrari, as I think the red race pace will fall off quicker than the Merc and RB. Great job from Alpha Tauri this session as well, though helped some with luck of the red flags.

I think there were at least 4-5 different teams that actually had a shot at the top three start positions. I hope that pace follows through with the race.

Seb missed out by a few hundredths, Bottas was still hoping for a tow, and at the front we will never really know. But I'm sure Charles is happy, this time he actually gets to start at the front, and if nothing else the Ferrari's stand to toss a wrench in the Merc and RB #2 drivers. But it should be a great race. It seems Merc has the race pace, but they also have less new tires due to the red flags, timing, and running two to heat them up. There are a lot of factors leading towards a good race, and if today was any indication, pit strategy and/or VSC/SC periods might have a big impact as well.


As for the Norris penalty, at least they did cut him some slack for the infraction. But I do think he had time to make the pits, and the time wasted asking the team is what messed him up.

[Nitrodaze]

With three of the most exciting drivers on the front row, we are set for an exciting race today. Leclerc is reminding us of what a great racer he is. It is hard to tell now, who would win the race. The Merc is still looking vulnerable but they did a great job turning it around. Helped by the crash l think. I think Verstappen could have taken pole, given a clean qualifying session. It is what it is!

With the blustery winds at Baku, we are certain to see more crashes during the race. Hence this is one race where an unlikely winner could emerge. Bottas would be looking to carve his way back up to the top six. He would have to go past Perez to do that. Hence that tussle is one to watch out for, as that would make all the difference in the constructors battle between Redbull and Mercedes, whom are currently separated by one sole point.

Leclercs Ferrari is slower on the straight than the Mercedes and Redbull behind, hence l expect he would be dispatched backwards within five laps. Then the monumental battle between Hamilton and Verstappen shall commence in earnest. Assuming Verstappen do not have one of those ligthning starts that usually propells him into the lead.

[Zico]

Just like that Hamilton is able to "find the time" overnight.

I'm glad you agree that Merc are not sandbagging, It's just Lewis transcending the car and able to get more out of it than anyone else.. which is why he is the GOAT.
Max and Charles would probably have been a full second away in that dog of a Merc.

[Fortitude]

Lap by lap by Becky Hart;

https://www.formula1.com/en/f1-live-lite.html#lap-by-lap

[Tazio]

Checo baby! :dork:

[Zico]

Huge blow for Max and a substantial points deficit to recover from.
Pirelli looking to have messed up big time, let's hope for a DNF for Lewis to equalise things and keep the battle alive.

[The Black Knight]

Huge blow for Max and a substantial points deficit to recover from.
Pirelli looking to have messed up big time, let's hope for a DNF for Lewis to equalise things and keep the battle alive.

That's not a very fair thing to say, looking at the graphics Lewis had 10% more tire than RBR's, and Max already knew about Strolls tire issue so he could have preserved them more. He can blame Pirelli but he's also to blame for not saving his tires.

But yes, the tires should not be exploding like that either way. Pirelli have questions to ask, it's not good enough, but it's not as though RBR didn't have warning from Strolls incident.

So far these tire failures have passed by without major casualties but imagine if Verstappen had been side by side another driver there, the chances of a fatality would be astronomically high. Pirelli need have serious questions to answer.

[Zico]

That's not a very fair thing to say, looking at the graphics Lewis had 10% more tire than RBR's, and Max already knew about Strolls tire issue so he could have preserved them more. He can blame Pirelli but he's also to blame for not saving his tires.

But yes, the tires should not be exploding like that either way. Pirelli have questions to ask, it's not good enough, but it's not as though RBR didn't have warning from Strolls incident.

That I'd prefer to see a championship decided on performance than DNF's? I don't think that's unfair, it's not like I'm wishing for Lewis to crash.. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I wasn't feeling RB were at fault here but tbh I don't know if they were cutting it too fine or not. I guess it depends on what Pirelli's tyre predictions were.

[Tazio]

:sailor: Great restart by Fred!

[Zico]

Ah well.. that evens everything up again and no more crashes. I'm very surprised at that happening to Lewis as he rarely makes mistakes. More likely a brake issue IMO.

[The Black Knight]

That I'd prefer to see a championship decided on performance than DNF's? I don't think that's unfair, it's not like I'm wishing for Lewis to crash.. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I wasn't feeling RB were at fault here but tbh I don't know if they were cutting it too fine or not. I guess it depends on what Pirelli's tyre predictions were.

There's more than one variable here, having a tire blow out is multifaceted, their tires were older than Lewis but 10% more worn. Anyway it doesn't matter now as what looks like a Mercedes technical error cost Lewis the win from the looks of it.

[Zico]

There's more than one variable here, having a tire blow out is multifaceted, their tires were older than Lewis but 10% more worn. Anyway it doesn't matter now as what looks like a Mercedes technical error cost Lewis the win from the looks of it.


That is very true.. and IIRC Max was warned about one of his tyres nearing critical temp.. wonder if it was that one. I'll need to rewatch to find out though unless anyone knows?

[The Black Knight]

That is very true.. and IIRC Max was warned about one of his tyres nearing critical temp.. wonder if it was that one. I'll need to rewatch to find out though unless anyone knows?

From Lewis interview it seems like it was driver error, he accidentally clipped a switch which meant he had no brakes into turn 1.

[Tazio]

From Lewis interview it seems like it was driver error, he accidentally clipped a switch which meant he had no brakes into turn 1.Here is the radio transmission:
"Did i have the magic on?"
"Yea, but, yea just knock that off"
"I could have sworn i turned it off"
"Yea you did, but knocked it on with the upshift"

[Fortitude]

Vettel over the moon as he explains key to podium finish
Aston Martin's Sebastian Vettel returned to the podium with a second place finish after starting from 11th place on the grid
Author Thomas Maher

A beaming Sebastian Vettel has explained where he felt the key to his success was as the German driver finished in second place from an 11th place grid slot.

Vettel had great pace throughout the race, running a long first stint after looking after his starting soft tyres, and slowly climbed the order to finish on the podium.

"I think it means a great deal, obviously it's been a tough start for us," Vettel smiled after the race, when asked how much the return to the podium meant for the former Racing Point outfit.

"I think it was a great race, we had good pace, that was the key obviously we had a good start, made some positions straight away then looked after my tyres.


"As soon as everybody went into the pits, I'd really good pace to overcut, you can see the restart worked brilliantly for me. And, yeah, I mean, we obviously have fresher tyres which I guess helped warming up the tires later on so, yeah, great day, I mean, I'm over the moon."

Read MORE here;

https://racingnews365.com/vettel-over-the-moon-as-he-explains-key-to-podium-finish

[N. Jones]

Has there been anything written as to if it was debris on the track that caused both tire failures?

[The Black Knight]

I want to say I am delighted for Vettel. I think Karma has bitten him badly over the last number of years and humbled him somewhat in the process which was badly needed. It's good to see him come back to close to his best at least in the last two races. He'll never be a GOAT but he is an amazing driver when everything clicks.

[Nitrodaze]

Perez!!!, it keeps getting better for him. With thirty points away from the leader, this race win has brought him into the title fight. Well a very good outside chance.

Like l said, an unlikely winner would win this race. Maybe, l should start giving betting advice :-)

[F1nKS]

What a mad race. Perez with a hydraulic issue that could have retired his car at anytime. Hamilton trying to use some "magic" at the end to win the race - finished behind Mazespin. Vettel getting on the podium.

Very entertaining race.

[Bagwan]

Has there been anything written as to if it was debris on the track that caused both tire failures?

There is word from Pirelli that they found a cut on the inside of one of Lewis's tires , which is pointing to the other blow-outs being also caused by debris .
They aren't sure about where Lance picked it up , but Max's suspected debris issue was likely the result of Lance's accident .

Given that they had a number of other runners who ran as many laps , and that there were no signs that there was any issue at all for either Lance's or Max's engineering teams prior to the blow outs , it's unlikely a tire construction issue , and more likely a carbon fiber one .

[truefan72]

a tough day in the office for Verstappen and Hamilton.
Happy for Perez, Vettel and Gasly. Each drove an outstanding race.

It was a weird race with hamilton only giving up the lead because he was held in the pits by Gasly.
And verstappen only keeping his lead because Perez had a slow pit stop. So Max didn't do much of anything to earn his leads.

Mercedes need to consider doing the bottas russell switch soon methinks.
This race, more than any other proves the quality of Hamilton who kept that car in p1 for a while despite being the 3rd fastest car on the grid.
And Bottas showing, yet again, to everyone why he is a decent but not great driver. I honestly feel that the team is better served with Russell in the 2nd seat going forward this season.

[Bagwan]

And , magically , Max remains ahead .
I wondered how they'd make it happen .

Gosh , those bulls look strong .

[airshifter]

Well, most of the action waited until late in the race, but it eventually came to light.


Leclerc couldn't hold on long, but really I think that was somewhat expected. From there the RB didn't have much chance in the DRS zone against Merc. But Max put in a monster lap as soon as Lewis pitted, and even with the slow stop for Merc, chances are he would have still made the jump in the pits. Checo does the same, staying out for one more lap, and emerging in front of Hamilton after the stop. If not for the slow stop for Perez, me might have been really close to Max on the exit.

Scary for both Stroll and Max. With the speeds on that straight, things could have been much worse. That wall to the right of the pit entry could get really ugly. Glad to see they are both ok.

So after all that, Lewis gets a blazer of a start, then straight lines it into the runoff. I'm not sure how he managed to hit that switch, but he did. What would have been an easy jump on Max for the WDC goes up in tire smoke.

Some spirited dicing after the restart, Gasly and Leclerc gave a good show, and just behind them Norris, Alonso, and Yuki were having it out as well. Seb got a well deserved podium for a change, and didn't put a tire wrong all race. Great to see a new mix in the points, even Kimi made it to 10th this race.

RB pull some points ahead of Merc, and Checo makes good for RB this time. Bottas was just.... not even present it seemed. The fight at the front will surely continue, but the second drivers are probably going to decide the constructors.

[Tazio]

Fred's mega restart!:

https://mobile.twitter.com/startonpole/status/1401549372408614913

[airshifter]

Fred's mega restart!:

https://mobile.twitter.com/startonpole/status/1401549372408614913

Good stuff.

[Fortitude]

Perez triumph after Verstappen blowout and Hamilton "destroyed"
Will Gray
Sunday 6 June 2021 23:30

Sergio Perez secured his first victory for Red Bull after team-mate Max Verstappen suffered a 200mph blowout five laps from the finish of the Azerbaijan Grand Prix.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/65866/perez-triumph-after-verstappen-blowout-and-hamilton-destroyed-gpfans-f1-recap/


Race winner Sergio Pérez declares 'we all love Baku, right?'

Race winner Sergio Pérez reflects on an action-packed 2021 Formula 1 Azerbaijan Grand Prix where the Mexican driver admits he "gave his all" in pursuit of the victory and made a "very good step" in his progression with Red Bull.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/video.race-winner-sergio-perez-declares-we-all-love-baku-right.1701834739127669793.html


Motor racing-Perez proves he is up to speed at Red Bull
Alan Baldwin
6 June 2021, 8:57 pm

(Reuters) - Sergio Perez said before the Formula One season started that he needed five races to get up to speed with Red Bull and the Mexican duly delivered by winning the sixth in Azerbaijan on Sunday.

If victory fell into his lap after team mate Max Verstappen crashed out with a tyre blowout five laps from the end while leading, it was still richly deserved.

Perez had qualified only seventh, moving up to sixth after McLaren's Lando Norris was demoted, but he showed his pace throughout.

The Mexican made up two places on the opening lap, was third by lap eight and had slotted into second behind Verstappen by lap 12.

Perez joined Red Bull at the end of last season, after being replaced by four times world champion Sebastian Vettel -- second on Sunday -- at what is now Aston Martin.

It had looked at one point last year like he might have to leave the sport, at least until he took a first grand prix win in Bahrain in December, and Perez said victory with his new team felt "very, very sweet.

"They have given me a massive opportunity," he added.

Read MORE here;

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/motor-racing-perez-proves-speed-185741668.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9jLm5ld3Nub3cuY28udWsv&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAH4VEzGqvu8KkeYwN8YliFtWaTWO Elifm4XD1njz5EhlYPOyOBM0uglKer0fRilhjrAtz8rJKWuHLN emGPO6YUpjiJ488g0g4XQgglxcbJF6OjES7okDZm6m7GYDTClH TaQZwrGkVdT5qx05tbsBF8-b-KOD5dtaeijqIwlFhskm


Perez beats Vettel to Baku victory after Verstappen crashes out from lead late on

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.perez-beats-vettel-to-baku-victory-after-verstappen-crashes-out-from-lead.aLIxuNGxwBFgZ4Z8OhuRw.html


Gasly says he had to take ‘big risks’ to seal podium after being slowed by engine issues

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.gasly-says-he-had-to-take-big-risks-to-seal-podium-after-being-slowed-by.3NAFxpwCtBFTWwfUpFiuHt.html


FIA post-race press conference - Azerbaijan

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.fia-post-race-press-conference-azerbaijan-2021.4swfkGOzqXjOCrvh8ze0OG.html

[Nitrodaze]

a tough day in the office for Verstappen and Hamilton.
Happy for Perez, Vettel and Gasly. Each drove an outstanding race.

It was a weird race with hamilton only giving up the lead because he was held in the pits by Gasly.
And verstappen only keeping his lead because Perez had a slow pit stop. So Max didn't do much of anything to earn his leads.

Mercedes need to consider doing the bottas russell switch soon methinks.
This race, more than any other proves the quality of Hamilton who kept that car in p1 for a while despite being the 3rd fastest car on the grid.
And Bottas showing, yet again, to everyone why he is a decent but not great driver. I honestly feel that the team is better served with Russell in the 2nd seat going forward this season.

Bottas seem to lack motivation at the moment. He doesn't seem to have moved on from the Monaco debacle that cost him 2nd and the haul of points that comes with it. He just seem to be unable to get into the championship fight which is demoralizing to say the least.

He is not in the fight for the top three positions in the driver's championship and he is not contributing enough to the constructors points at the moment. So it is fair to say he is at risk of losing his seat. Especially, if you consider that his points contribution could make the difference between Mercedes winning or losing the constructors championship.

But l think he would bounce back as he usually does. In a tough seasson as this one is, l wonder if there is the patience and time to allow him to bounce back.

[denkimi]

So after all that, Lewis gets a blazer of a start, then straight lines it into the runoff. I'm not sure how he managed to hit that switch, but he did. What would have been an easy jump on Max for the WDC goes up in tire smoke.

i don't even understand what the point of switch that basically disables the brakes is. why would you need that, and why would you make it so readily accessible that you can accidentally engage it?

[Zico]

i don't even understand what the point of switch that basically disables the brakes is. why would you need that, and why would you make it so readily accessible that you can accidentally engage it?


Their 'Magic' is probably more of an extreme bias change that's outwith the scope of the normal bias range.. or maybe even completely disengages the rear brake systems.

Why? You'd expect it to likely be for bringing the front brakes up to temps faster but with Merc now looking to have issues switching their tyres on since losing their DAS for this season, I guess it's possible they could be using it to try and generate more heat into the fronts (and rears using unbraked power) than a normal mild bias change, a poor mans DAS?... but that is just a wild theory of my own at this stage.

Either way, it's apparent ease of activation has cost them massively and I'm sure they will be rectifying that immediately.

Edit- Looks like I am mostly correct, although it does seems to be used by everyone. Judging from Lewis's totally smoking brakes before that last restart, Merc seem to be most reliant on it by far. See - https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/explained-mercedes-magic-button-hamilton-baku/6544421/

[Nitrodaze]

i don't even understand what the point of switch that basically disables the brakes is. why would you need that, and why would you make it so readily accessible that you can accidentally engage it?

The funny thing is that, the front brakes did engage but the car seemed to be speeding up. Could this be an exposure of some hidden gimmick on the Mercedes?

[Mia 01]

I´m glad that Kimi scored a point, the team needed that. Well how time changes!

[airshifter]

The funny thing is that, the front brakes did engage but the car seemed to be speeding up. Could this be an exposure of some hidden gimmick on the Mercedes?

Since everyone else slowed to take the corner, probably just an illusion of sorts since front break lock and no rear brakes wouldn't slow the car much. Keep in mind F1 cars usually carry a more balanced break bias than street cars, since the rear wings produce downforce. Most street cars get more front breaking power, since few are as "balanced" overall as a Formula 1 car.



I´m glad that Kimi scored a point, the team needed that. Well how time changes!

Yep, the old man of F1 got into the points again. Kimi, Kimi, Kimi! Overall it was good to see the mix in the points and shake things up some.




As for the error, it seems to me that they would make it harder to accidentally engage a break bias device in such a way. But it seems common for teams to use this or a similar method. It might also explain some of the spins and such that seem silly during warm up laps. By having break bias hard to the front, it helps heat all brakes and tires, since the engine can be working harder against the front brakes, and the rears are working harder to push the car with the brakes dragging, even when the wheels aren't spinning. Intentional wheelspin can help heat the backs even more.

So it could have been the slower warm up lap behind the pace car that had the Merc smoking so much on the line, or maybe Lewis was just working real hard to get max heat in the tires, since he knew it would just be a couple lap shootout to race.

It's just surprising that it bit him this race if they have used it for so long.


Toto isn't happy with Merc right now, and the team is showing signs of cracking under the pressure from RB this year. I'm not sure if that is what got to Lewis, but something did.

[F1nKS]

Preliminary investigations are showing the tire failures were likely FOD.

[Nitrodaze]

GASLY!!!
The underated Redbull driver just keeps producing podium visits with the Alpha Tauri. He deserves a top seat, l think.

[Tazio]

Yeah, the Gas-man is really comming into his own!

[Bagwan]

So , another uncharacteristic screw-up race for Merc that leaves Max and the bulls in the lead .
I said that might happen .

Anyone ever heard of the "magic" before ?
Seemed like a little too much data in that information dump . It smelled like red herring .

Max still in the lead in Austria would be exciting , wouldn't it ?

Thank-you for visiting bagwan's conspiracy corner , a dark part of his fuzzy brain .

Normal programming may now resume .

[F1nKS]

GASLY!!!
The underated Redbull driver just keeps producing podium visits with the Alpha Tauri. He deserves a top seat, l think.

But where would he go?

He not going to Mercedes
He not going to Red Bull
He not going to McClaren
He not going to Aston Martin
He not going to Ferrari

Alpha Tauri is better than all the remaining teams.

[Nitrodaze]

But where would he go?

He not going to Mercedes
He not going to Red Bull
He not going to McClaren
He not going to Aston Martin
He not going to Ferrari

Alpha Tauri is better than all the remaining teams.

This is Formula One buddy, he could end up literally in any of those teams. I think he would eventually end up in the Redbull. There are circumstances that could see him in a Mercedes as well, but a big change at Mercedes is the only way that would happen. If Ricciardo does not get up to speed at Mclaren, there could be a fall out there which would create space for Gasly. Vettel and Hamilton are close to retirement, hence there are possibilities from those two seats.

Just to make my point that anything is possible.

[Fortitude]

The Story Of Seb's Brilliant Baku Podium | 2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix
Formula 1

A roller-coaster weekend ended on an incredible high for Sebastian Vettel as the four-time world champion claimed a historic first podium for his new team, Aston Martin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy-8SqLdxkI


INSIDER: How Sebastian Vettel Finished P2 in Baku!
Aston Martin Cognizant Formula One Team

Heroic. Historic. Heartbreaking. This is the story of a classic Formula 1 weekend, told through the eyes of those at the very heart of it. Join Senior Performance Engineer, Ben Michell, to discover the madness of the Azerbaijan Grand Prix. This is #IAMSTORIES | INSIDER, Baku. ��

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbGojqq7m1E


ANALYSIS: How Vettel went from missing Q3 to his first podium for Aston Martin in Baku
By Jonny Reynolds and Jamie May 09 June 2021

After a trying start to the season with Aston Martin, Sebastian Vettel has been on a bit of a charge of late, culminating in his feel-good podium in Azerbaijan. In our latest data deep dive, we look at the key parts of Vettel’s weekend to show how he went from disappointment on Saturday to joy on Sunday.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.analysis-how-vettel-went-from-missing-q3-to-his-first-podium-for-aston.2xrTaKhfcViLQBijxCrnS1.html

[Nitrodaze]

The Story Of Seb's Brilliant Baku Podium | 2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix
Formula 1

A roller-coaster weekend ended on an incredible high for Sebastian Vettel as the four-time world champion claimed a historic first podium for his new team, Aston Martin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy-8SqLdxkI


INSIDER: How Sebastian Vettel Finished P2 in Baku!
Aston Martin Cognizant Formula One Team

Heroic. Historic. Heartbreaking. This is the story of a classic Formula 1 weekend, told through the eyes of those at the very heart of it. Join Senior Performance Engineer, Ben Michell, to discover the madness of the Azerbaijan Grand Prix. This is #IAMSTORIES | INSIDER, Baku. ��

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbGojqq7m1E


ANALYSIS: How Vettel went from missing Q3 to his first podium for Aston Martin in Baku
By Jonny Reynolds and Jamie May 09 June 2021

After a trying start to the season with Aston Martin, Sebastian Vettel has been on a bit of a charge of late, culminating in his feel-good podium in Azerbaijan. In our latest data deep dive, we look at the key parts of Vettel’s weekend to show how he went from disappointment on Saturday to joy on Sunday.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.analysis-how-vettel-went-from-missing-q3-to-his-first-podium-for-aston.2xrTaKhfcViLQBijxCrnS1.html

I am happy for Seb actually. I am just quietly concerned about whether he can keep that form up, on the non-street circuits. If he can, that would be great for Aston Martin and Seb.

[F1nKS]

This is Formula One buddy, he could end up literally in any of those teams.

I wouldn't take Gasly over any of those drivers at those teams. I would take Bottas over him.


I think he would eventually end up in the Redbull.

It seems Red Bull is happy to keep him at Alpha Tauri. I guess if Max went to Mercedes and Perez retired, maybe Red Bull would have no choice to elevate him.

I don't know what exactly happened behind the scenes, but there is enough rumblings that he will never be at Red Bull again. I would rather have Albon than Gasly at Red Bull say if Hamilton retired and Verstappen moved to Mercedes.


There are circumstances that could see him in a Mercedes as well, but a big change at Mercedes is the only way that would happen.

Don't you think that if Hamilton retired and they decided to get rid of Bottas, wouldn't they go with Ocon and Russel?


If Ricciardo does not get up to speed at Mclaren, there could be a fall out there which would create space for Gasly. Vettel and Hamilton are close to retirement, hence there are possibilities from those two seats.

I can see your point with Mclaren. Though I hope Ricciardo finds his way.

From watching him at Red Bull it just seems that Gasly is probably better suited as small team driver where there are not large expectations.

[airshifter]

For the drivers, you just never know what can happen. It does seem that Gasly has come back alive after being demoted, but maybe the RB is just that tough to drive, or the pressure took it's toll...

Either way, silly season is always with us in F1. Whatever we think can't possibly happen might. Kimi went back to Ferrari, and Fernando went back to Mclaren. :laugh:


It was clear at Baku that the Bulls were strong on overall pace. Merc played the straight line setup to keep cars from passing, but they had to pit.

I was watching the pit sequence again, and I have to say that the release of Lewis was a very minor delay on the actual light. Maybe a 1/2 second or so tops. But when the light turned green the AT of Gasly was almost exactly right alongside the Merc pit. Lewis got away slow and that left 5-6 cars lengths between them by the time he hit the pit lane. So the theory that some claim he only lost the lead due to a bad stop is pretty much just.... well not true. I also checked timing as Lewis pitted, and Perez was just a hair over 2.5 seconds behind Lewis. When he pitted two laps later he came out ahead after having a 4.3 second stop. He came out cleanly in front with some gap, and that shows just how much the RB's were being held up.

Merc is going to have to fight harder this year, at least on some of the tracks.

[Nitrodaze]

For the drivers, you just never know what can happen. It does seem that Gasly has come back alive after being demoted, but maybe the RB is just that tough to drive, or the pressure took it's toll...

Either way, silly season is always with us in F1. Whatever we think can't possibly happen might. Kimi went back to Ferrari, and Fernando went back to Mclaren. :laugh:


It was clear at Baku that the Bulls were strong on overall pace. Merc played the straight line setup to keep cars from passing, but they had to pit.

I was watching the pit sequence again, and I have to say that the release of Lewis was a very minor delay on the actual light. Maybe a 1/2 second or so tops. But when the light turned green the AT of Gasly was almost exactly right alongside the Merc pit. Lewis got away slow and that left 5-6 cars lengths between them by the time he hit the pit lane. So the theory that some claim he only lost the lead due to a bad stop is pretty much just.... well not true. I also checked timing as Lewis pitted, and Perez was just a hair over 2.5 seconds behind Lewis. When he pitted two laps later he came out ahead after having a 4.3 second stop. He came out cleanly in front with some gap, and that shows just how much the RB's were being held up.

Merc is going to have to fight harder this year, at least on some of the tracks.

I think the point is that the Mercedes pitstops are very slow compared to the Redbull pit crew. Verstappen and Perez had near two seconds pitstop each. I think one of them got a 00:00:01:99 seconds pitstop. The Mercedes pitstops were closer or above 3 seconds, which brought Gasly into play.

[airshifter]

Perez had a 4.3 second stop at Baku.

RB might have the upper hand usually, but not always. I also think Mercedes does very well when they double stack.

[Nitrodaze]

Perez had a 4.3 second stop at Baku.

RB might have the upper hand usually, but not always. I also think Mercedes does very well when they double stack.

Yea, Perez had a bad pitstop l recall now. But it still put him ahead of Hamilton didn't it?

Mercedes pitstops have been woeful since last season. But l see your point.

[Zico]

I wouldn't take Gasly over any of those drivers at those teams. I would take Bottas over him.

You don't like Gasly or you do rate Bottas?
I wasn't partcularly Impressed with Gasly at Red Bull either but since he left he has undoubtedly grown in stature as a driver and so has gone up in my estimation a fair bit, think I'd take him over Bottas.




It seems Red Bull is happy to keep him at Alpha Tauri. I guess if Max went to Mercedes and Perez retired, maybe Red Bull would have no choice to elevate him.

I don't know what exactly happened behind the scenes, but there is enough rumblings that he will never be at Red Bull again. I would rather have Albon than Gasly at Red Bull say if Hamilton retired and Verstappen moved to Mercedes.

Again, I'd choose Gasly over Albon. I'm not sure Red Bull would have either of them back though. I can imagine they are probably quite stubborn in that regard.



Don't you think that if Hamilton retired and they decided to get rid of Bottas, wouldn't they go with Ocon and Russel?

Yep, you would expect it to be Russell and Ocon but maybe if Lewis stays a few more seasons and the driver options open up again I can see them going for Max, Gasly or possibly even Lando if he keeps up his impressive form and momentum.

[F1nKS]

You don't like Gasly or you do rate Bottas?
I wasn't partcularly Impressed with Gasly at Red Bull either but since he left he has undoubtedly grown in stature as a driver and so has gone up in my estimation a fair bit, think I'd take him over Bottas.

I don't think Gasly handles pressure very well and he is inconsistent. I also believe he is actually has underperformed where his car has been at (and to be fair some of his underperformance has been because of team strategy).


Yep, you would expect it to be Russell and Ocon but maybe if Lewis stays a few more seasons and the driver options open up again I can see them going for Max, Gasly or possibly even Lando if he keeps up his impressive form and momentum.

Now I heard some speculation that if Mercedes doesn't promote Russell, Red Bull is considering a move for him.

[Nitrodaze]

I don't think Gasly handles pressure very well and he is inconsistent. I also believe he is actually has underperformed where his car has been at (and to be fair some of his underperformance has been because of team strategy).



Now I heard some speculation that if Mercedes doesn't promote Russell, Red Bull is considering a move for him.

It makes sense for Redbull to want Russell. They do not have any junior of Russell's calibre on their books at the moment. That said, l don't think Mercedes would want to release him. Hence it would cost Redbull a great deal to snatch him from Mercedes.

But would Russell head to Redbull when he is so close to securing a seat with Mercedes? Would Redbull want to swap Perez [who is doing a great job and promises to be even better with time] for Russell? would Russell want to go to a team that has burnt two of their very capable juniors? It would be a huge risk for Russell to take a Redbull seat. Especially the cursed second seat next to Verstappen.

Can he beat Verstappen in the same car? Definitely. If he is given fair and equal treatment and equipment. Redbull has a history of not being able to do that. Which is where the risk lay.


On Gasly, l would say investigate his racing history. He is a talent as good as Russell, Norris and Verstappen. He would be very high on any teams shopping list if he can be cheaply separated from Redbull. He won a race and a number of podium visits in a car that was not as good as the Mclaren, Mercedes or Ferrari. That alone would ensure he gets a look when the opportunity becomes available.

[Zico]

I don't think Gasly handles pressure very well and he is inconsistent. I also believe he is actually has underperformed where his car has been at (and to be fair some of his underperformance has been because of team strategy).



Now I heard some speculation that if Mercedes doesn't promote Russell, Red Bull is considering a move for him.


Fair enough, you could say pretty much the same for Bottas though.

Haha.. Russell going to Red Bull would be very interesting indeed. I can't help but wonder if the rumour might have been started by Russell himself to give Toto a nudge though.
Although on the ascendancy, I wouldn't want to go to Red Bull to live in their golden boy Max's shadow. Merc still feels like a safer option to me.

[Nitrodaze]

Fair enough, you could say pretty much the same for Bottas though.

Haha.. Russell going to Red Bull would be very interesting indeed. I can't help but wonder if the rumour might have been started by Russell himself to give Toto a nudge though.
Although on the ascendancy, I wouldn't want to go to Red Bull to live in their golden boy Max's shadow. Merc still feels like a safer option to me.

If it happens, it could be a swap of Gasly for Russell. Which may be an agreeable exchange. It could happen, {if you stop to think about it}. But why would Russell make that jump? Besides, it would look bad for Wolff to lose his up and coming junior driver. It would be the third Mercedes junior that has found the Mercedes programme unsatisfactory and happy to take his chances elsewhere.

If Gasly gets the chance to head to Mercedes, it would be a certain chance for him to become an F1 driver world champion. I think he has it in him given the equipment that suits him and the support.

Gasly in Mercedes would be a menace for Redbull and the Ferrari pair. He would be hard to beat. Just consider how he was able to maintain his podium position ahead of a rapid Leclerc in a faster Ferrari at Baku. That would give you an idea of what a headache Gasly in a Mercedes would be for Redbull and Ferrari.

[The Black Knight]

If it happens, it could be a swap of Gasly for Russell. Which may be an agreeable exchange. It could happen, {if you stop to think about it}. But why would Russell make that jump? Besides, it would look bad for Wolff to lose his up and coming junior driver. It would be the third Mercedes junior that has found the Mercedes programme unsatisfactory and happy to take his chances elsewhere.

If Gasly gets the chance to head to Mercedes, it would be a certain chance for him to become an F1 driver world champion. I think he has it in him given the equipment that suits him and the support.

Gasly in Mercedes would be a menace for Redbull and the Ferrari pair. He would be hard to beat. Just consider how he was able to maintain his podium position ahead of a rapid Leclerc in a faster Ferrari at Baku. That would give you an idea of what a headache Gasly in a Mercedes would be for Redbull and Ferrari.

Russell has proven his worth. If Mercedes don't promote him next year, something I believe he has overwhelmingly earned, then he should not wait for them and, considering it's Bottas in the other car, it's really their loss. Three years in a Williams is enough and he has done his dues.

I can't see Gasly getting a Mercedes drive when a driver the calibre of Russell is available.

If RBR have a choice between Russell and Gasly I know which one they would go for, I don't see why that decision would be any different for Mercedes.

[Nitrodaze]

Russell has proven his worth. If Mercedes don't promote him next year, something I believe he has overwhelmingly earned, then he should not wait for them and, considering it's Bottas in the other car, it's really their loss. Three years in a Williams is enough and he has done his dues.

I can't see Gasly getting a Mercedes drive when a driver the calibre of Russell is available.

I agree. If Mercedes do not promote him next season, he should look elsewhere. Elsewhere may well be Redbull. Risky but necessary. I think Gasly would have done an equivalent job given the support and the car that was given to Russell. Mercedes is not Redbull remember. He is better than you think.

[The Black Knight]

I agree. If Mercedes do not promote him next season, he should look elsewhere. Elsewhere may well be Redbull. Risky but necessary. I think Gasly would have done an equivalent job given the support and the car that was given to Russell. Mercedes is not Redbull remember. He is better than you think.

No, he's not. And RBR know that which is exactly why they signed Perez ahead of him and it's also why they were so hesitant to promote him to F1 in the first place. He had his chance in RBR and they have a lot more information than you or me including inside feedback from Alpha Tauri. The Alpha Tauri is better than you think and that's why he is being made to look better than he actually is. If he suddenly found some extra speed from somewhere RBR would have bitten the bullet and promoted him again. And Russell would wipe the floor with him.

[Nitrodaze]

No, he's not. And RBR know that which is exactly why they signed Perez ahead of him and it's also why they were so hesitant to promote him to F1 in the first place. He had his chance in RBR and they have a lot more information than you or me including inside feedback from Alpha Tauri. The Alpha Tauri is better than you think and that's why he is being made to look better than he actually is. If he suddenly found some extra speed from somewhere RBR would have bitten the bullet and promoted him again. And Russell would wipe the floor with him.

I don't know where you get your info from. But l can tell you this; he was going to be promoted early, he was told when he would be in the car but to keep it quiet until the official announcement. But he mistakenly released the information to the French press that had a field day with the info. Redbull was very angry with him, much to Kvyat's surprise that he was losing his seat.

Once he got into the team, he was very frustrated with the car and his relationship with his engineers appeared to deteriorate. Consequentially, he never really had the car set up to his liking, which reflected very poorly on him. Most people judge him based on that particularly difficult period for him. The Alpha Tauri is not making him look good. If that was the case, Tsunoda would be doing better than he is at the moment. The Alpha Tauri has a chassis issue which seems to be improving recently.

Since he went back to Torro Rosso, he has been a better driver. The team has given him a car that suits him and he has been performing better than expected. He is good, Redbull has made him look bad that's all.

[airshifter]

I actually think the talk of Russell being so proven is comical. He is in a car that is the bottom of the field, and really hasn't had any known strong people in the team to compete with. Even if he did, the car is such a dog that there is no strong comparision.

We only know what we know. He did very well in series leading up to Formula 1, and he has been in a dog of a car since. With one race at Merc he was leading.... in a car that completely dominated the field the entire year. Yes, he was leading Bottas..... does that prove a solid driver? Merc had almost double the points of RB for the season, and Bottas only beat Lewis a few times. Thus we can conclude that George was probably at least as good on that day as the guy who could rarely challenge Lewis.

I don't at all dislike him. And I'd like to see him get a shot at Merc. But I'd venture to say that in the reserve position, there were plenty of other drivers that could have challenged Bottas in equal hardware.

I think he is at least as quick as Gasly most likely, maybe even quicker. The only real dent Gasly has on his record is not being able to cope with RB quickly and secure high points out of the box. But it's not as if he is the only one that has been in that position. And Ferrari as well as Merc stole podiums from Max early in the season when Gasly was with RB, so the relative comparion to Albon is probably that he performed at least close to or as well IMHO.

He at least has a track record in a car that can perform sometimes, and not just a one off chance in a top car.


Neither of the two have any long term record in top cars, so claiming superiority of either is pointless IMHO.



It's silly season all the time. What we think and the team principles and powers that be think can often be completely different things either way.



I would think right now both RB and Merc would be more concerned with the next races, not next year. And any mid year jumps could easily upset the team dynamics and screw either of them up.

[Nitrodaze]

I actually think the talk of Russell being so proven is comical. He is in a car that is the bottom of the field, and really hasn't had any known strong people in the team to compete with. Even if he did, the car is such a dog that there is no strong comparision.

We only know what we know. He did very well in series leading up to Formula 1, and he has been in a dog of a car since. With one race at Merc he was leading.... in a car that completely dominated the field the entire year. Yes, he was leading Bottas..... does that prove a solid driver? Merc had almost double the points of RB for the season, and Bottas only beat Lewis a few times. Thus we can conclude that George was probably at least as good on that day as the guy who could rarely challenge Lewis.

I don't at all dislike him. And I'd like to see him get a shot at Merc. But I'd venture to say that in the reserve position, there were plenty of other drivers that could have challenged Bottas in equal hardware.

I think he is at least as quick as Gasly most likely, maybe even quicker. The only real dent Gasly has on his record is not being able to cope with RB quickly and secure high points out of the box. But it's not as if he is the only one that has been in that position. And Ferrari as well as Merc stole podiums from Max early in the season when Gasly was with RB, so the relative comparion to Albon is probably that he performed at least close to or as well IMHO.

He at least has a track record in a car that can perform sometimes, and not just a one off chance in a top car.


Neither of the two have any long term record in top cars, so claiming superiority of either is pointless IMHO.



It's silly season all the time. What we think and the team principles and powers that be think can often be completely different things either way.



I would think right now both RB and Merc would be more concerned with the next races, not next year. And any mid year jumps could easily upset the team dynamics and screw either of them up.

Shifter, l think you are not fair to Russell. There is a buzz around him because he is a real talent. I would go as far as to say with championship-winning potential. I don't think anyone has suggested that he was a proven candidate per see. He would be said to be proven if he has at least one f1 world title to his name to qualify as proven. What he has done is showcase what is possible from him if given the Mercedes seat. What we saw was exciting. Particularly on a day when Bottas was looking very ordinary.

Among the next generation of drivers; the Norris, Gasly, Verstappen, Leclerc and Sainz, he is clearly a calibre among the best of them. If Redbull is thinking of knicking him from Mercedes, it is because they can see that. But l do agree with you on the point that there are other drivers that may have performed equally well in the W20. Ocon for instance finished on the podium at Bahrain in a Renault. Imagine what he could have done in a Mercedes.

That said, he has not been promoted into the Mercedes because Bottas and Hamilton are still in those seats. It is not because he has not met the criteria for filling one of those seats but because he is in a queue. Being in the wings waiting, puts a lot of pressure on Bottas. Bottas' confidence appears to be seriously dented by the race in Bahrain. He probably has not recovered from it by all accounts

[F1nKS]

But would Russell head to Redbull when he is so close to securing a seat with Mercedes?

I am sure if Russell has his choice it would be Mercedes. Have you noticed how calm he's been for the last few weeks. I think he been told he getting the Mercedes job.


Would Redbull want to swap Perez [who is doing a great job and promises to be even better with time] for Russell?

Horner when asked about driver lineup for 2022 said something to the effect that there will have a "competitive driver" in the 2nd seat next year and wouldn't commit to Perez.

Of course I am sure RB wants Perez to put it together all together and bring consistent results the rest of the year (beating Bottas and being in position to do what he did last week).



would Russell want to go to a team that has burnt two of their very capable juniors? It would be a huge risk for Russell to take a Redbull seat. Especially the cursed second seat next to Verstappen.

Yes. If the choice is Williams or Redbull. Even Gasly wants the RB seat back.


Can he beat Verstappen in the same car? Definitely. If he is given fair and equal treatment and equipment. Redbull has a history of not being able to do that. Which is where the risk lay.

I agree. Things don't seem to go well with two Alpha Dogs on the same team. That why it could be a little dicey with him paired up with Hamilton until he retires.



On Gasly, l would say investigate his racing history. He is a talent as good as Russell, Norris and Verstappen. He would be very high on any teams shopping list if he can be cheaply separated from Redbull. He won a race and a number of podium visits in a car that was not as good as the Mclaren, Mercedes or Ferrari. That alone would ensure he gets a look when the opportunity becomes available.

Why didn't Renault want Gasly? I would take Gasly over Ocon.

[airshifter]

Shifter, l think you are not fair on Russell. There is a buzz around him because he is a real talent. I would go as far as to say with championship-winning potential. I don't think anyone has suggested that he was a proven candidate per see. He would be said to be proven if he has at least one f1 world title to his name to qualify as proven. What he has done is showcase what is possible from him if given the Mercedes seat. What we saw was exciting. Particularly on a day when Bottas was looking very ordinary.

Among the next generation of drivers; the Norris, Gasly, Verstappen, Leclerc and Sainz, he is clearly a calibre among the best of them. If Redbull is thinking of knicking him from Mercedes, it is because they can see that. But l do agree with you on the point that there are other drivers that may have performed equally well in the W20. Ocon for instance finished on the podium at Bahrain in a Renault. Imagine what he could have done in a Mercedes.

That said, he has not been promoted into the Mercedes because Bottas and Hamilton are still in those seats. It is not because he has not met the criteria for filling one of those seats but because he is in a queue. Being in the wings waiting, puts a lot of pressure on Bottas. Bottas' confidence appears to be seriously dented by the race in Bahrain. He probably has not recovered from it by all accounts

I am being more than fair about Russell. Of all the drivers you have mentioned in the previous few threads, he is the one with almost no comparisons in F1 except for a single drive in a dominant car. Yet you've stated that in equal machinery he could beat Max. Then you go on to include Gasly and Norris as up in the same league.

None of us know if that is true. We still don't know if Lewis can be Max in equal machinery. We simply know that Lewis and Max, both in superior cars, are beating the rest at the moment.

There are probably a number of drivers that would be competing in the dominant cars. The trick is figuring out who the actual strongest drivers are, since the comparison is only usually those drivers in the lesser cars. And I think all of us fully understand that nobody is promoted to a seat in a better car while those seats are still filled. Contracted under programs or not, those drivers don't get a chance until the right seat opens, and even then it can be short lived at times.

[airshifter]

**snipped to keep the relevant info I'm responding to**


Horner when asked about driver lineup for 2022 said something to the effect that there will have a "competitive driver" in the 2nd seat next year and wouldn't commit to Perez.

Of course I am sure RB wants Perez to put it together all together and bring consistent results the rest of the year (beating Bottas and being in position to do what he did last week).



I agree. Things don't seem to go well with two Alpha Dogs on the same team. That why it could be a little dicey with him paired up with Hamilton until he retires.



I think you've touched upon two key points that would impact either possible move.

RB have said the same about the last several #2 drivers. No long term commitment seems to be the current game. Perform now or be gone more or less. Some drivers would take a chance at that, others might not.

And more importantly IMHO is the two strong drivers on one team comment. Merc really doesn't want that, and I don't think RB does either. Though Merc did let Nico race Lewis, at this stage of the game having stuck with Bottas, it's safe to say they are looking for #2. And RB has made it clear even when Max wasn't top dog, he was going to get top dog status.

Though it could be subject to change. Merc has had the luxury is winning constructors with Bottas in the camp, even when he wasn't the strongest. Now with a threat from RB they might let someone challenge Lewis. And the same applies to RB.... if they think they are in the fight for the top spot, they might change their normal methods a bit.



But...... I think we should just start a silly season thread now. None of our recent responses has anything to do with Baku. :laugh:

[Nitrodaze]

I am being more than fair about Russell. Of all the drivers you have mentioned in the previous few threads, he is the one with almost no comparisons in F1 except for a single drive in a dominant car. Yet you've stated that in equal machinery he could beat Max. Then you go on to include Gasly and Norris as up in the same league.

None of us know if that is true. We still don't know if Lewis can be Max in equal machinery. We simply know that Lewis and Max, both in superior cars, are beating the rest at the moment.

There are probably a number of drivers that would be competing in the dominant cars. The trick is figuring out who the actual strongest drivers are, since the comparison is only usually those drivers in the lesser cars. And I think all of us fully understand that nobody is promoted to a seat in a better car while those seats are still filled. Contracted under programs or not, those drivers don't get a chance until the right seat opens, and even then it can be short lived at times.

When l say you are not being fair. I am talking about appreciating the potential of a driver. Yes, there are many unknowns. If Redbull took that sort of perspective to hiring their drivers, Verstappen would still be in Torro Rosso now. Every driver presents each team bosses with a perspective of their potential, given the chance to drive their car. Perez did just that when he won the Bahrain GP and was swiftly hired by Redbull. And he has confirmed that potential by winning the Baku GP.

Note:- Perez is the first driver to win in that 2nd seat at Redbull since Ricciardo. What a relief that must have been for Horner. The curse is broken.

With very little opportunity to showcase his true potential, Russell grasped his one and only opportunity and nearly won the Bahrain GP. A race that did wonders for Perez. My point is, it is not about yardstick measures but measures of potential. And Russell has demonstrated that he has enormous potential.

On Hamilton compared to Verstappen, this scenario is the best possible way to measure the comparative strengths and weaknesses of both drivers. In the same team, Verstappen would have to cope with the in-team politics, the mind games as well as try to beat Hamilton on track. That is not a good scenario for a young challenger to take on a seven-time world champion. However, in the safety and protection of another team, he can focus on his racing and put out his best performances.

We adore Alonso because he beat Seven-time world champion, Michael Schumacher, twice in a Renault. Would he have done so, driving in the second seat at Ferrari? Certainly not. He would be flying too close to the sun and would have been burnt from the experience. To estimate what is possible in the future, we only have "potential" to go on. When it comes down to proving it, there is a myriad of factors that come into play to producing what would actually happen. And the outcome can be different from what we expect. Among those things is crucially luck and good timing which plays a huge role in what transpires for each driver.

Bad timing destroyed Grosjean's career. Albon is paying the price for that very same thing. Gasly was nearly destroyed by it. Thankfully he is recovering well.

[F1nKS]

But...... I think we should just start a silly season thread now. None of our recent responses has anything to do with Baku. :laugh:

I there is a "Silly Season 2021" thread.....Just saying :laugh: