Why is Massa not a favorite race winner?

[leopard]

He started mostly of the races off from the pole, if only there wasn't gearbox failure in Melbourne it wasn't impossible that he made the same start, and it will not be impossible also that we shall see he make the same start in front of anybody.

Strangely, he is not favorite winner of every race. Kimi and Alonso gain more voter than him although Massa was obvious the best man in qualifying. Massa is obviously a fast driver, like the blitz or the shark

When will he gain the same popularity as Alonso or Kimi?

[blakebeatty]

i could claim that Massa is my favorite driver

[rlenis]

massa is my favorite now...

[Mifune]

Unfortunately for Massa armchair enthusiasts who think they know a lot about f1 consider him to be immature and reckless, prone to mistakes, these assumptions stick, like with the Montoya/Ralf thing, pound for pound they both made the same amount of errors and crashes, but when Montoya did it、 it was "here we go again, crazy Montoya" but when Ralf did it there had to be mitigating circumstances.
i always quite liked Massa, even in his Sauber days when he was criticized most strongly.
so good luck to him.

[wmcot]

When will he gain the same popularity as Alonso or Kimi?

I think he's earning the respect of fans with every race. Everyone expected Kimi to come in and dominate at Ferrari, but Massa has worked very hard in testing over the winter and seems to have matured quite a bit. He has learned from his race start in Malaysia and he had the maturity to come from the back into the points gradually in Australia rather than pushing too hard and trying to regain all those places in a couple of laps. He is a much better driver than he was in his Sauber days and hopefully he will continue to improve.

Having said that, I still hope to see Kimi's luck improving in the near future, too. I don't think we are done seeing him win this year!

[AJP]

This is a very interesting topic...

it is almost like he snuck in at Ferrari...everyone knew he was there but would question why he was there..

very much under the radar has his improvements been...hmmmm
(sorry...a little yoda thing going on)

To me, it seems that he does not have the fan base that Kimi and Alonso have..mind you, im sure the Brazilians are going utterly nuts over his recent form.

He still seems wet behind the ears, maybe this is just the way he comes across, as we all know now that he is a serious contender for the title. If he does get the title, I'm not quite sure how that will sit in the excitement stakes for me...not sure why...

[F1boat]

Massa is a very likable driver and seems to good and too soft for consistent winner and champion. I was sure after Malaysia that he is done. Yet, in Bahrain and Barcelona he was amazing and now I think that he might become a world champion, if Ferrari continue to have superior pace and fix their reliabilty problems.

[Ranger]

I guess you could say he is kind of like a Mansell.

Pretty damn quick, but looking rather unsteady at times.

Which some people for various reasons seem to like, whilst it doesn't do much for others.

[leopard]

massa is my favorite now...
lol ... who's next?

[leopard]

To me, it seems that he does not have the fan base that Kimi and Alonso have..mind you, im sure the Brazilians are going utterly nuts over his recent form.


Probably, his origin doesn't have strong culture about car racing among top drivers and has no massive support for him.

There is always poll before the race on TV and it said Massa always comes after Kimi and Alonso.

[ioan]

He started mostly of the races off from the pole, if only there wasn't gearbox failure in Melbourne it wasn't impossible that he made the same start, and it will not be impossible also that we shall see he make the same start in front of anybody.

Strangely, he is not favorite winner of every race. Kimi and Alonso gain more voter than him although Massa was obvious the best man in qualifying. Massa is obviously a fast driver, like the blitz or the shark

When will he gain the same popularity as Alonso or Kimi?

It's simple, people are biased.
Forum members usually support drivers based on nationality.

Also being a Ferrari driver doesn't help to much, as they are not liked since they dominated F1 for 5 consecutive years.

[leopard]

I have a feeling that Massa will dominate mostly qualifying of the season, except maybe in pouring rain race.
If he can maintain what he performed in qualifying at the real race, title is widely open for him.

But, i reckon from MS era that Ferrari has a not too good start, bad acceleration at the start. On the other hand Alonso has good start since he was driving the Renault. This is a thing that Massa has to be careful of, Alonso will steal his pole position at the first corner of the starts.

Be careful Massa!

[Quetch]

Massa's forte is that he had learned from Schumacher how to get the entire team behind him. He is a real team guy. You won't see him leave the track after a retirement.

[F1boat]

I have a feeling that Massa will dominate mostly qualifying of the season, except maybe in pouring rain race.
If he can maintain what he performed in qualifying at the real race, title is widely open for him.

But, i reckon from MS era that Ferrari has a not too good start, bad acceleration at the start. On the other hand Alonso has good start since he was driving the Renault. This is a thing that Massa has to be careful of, Alonso will steal his pole position at the first corner of the starts.

Be careful Massa!

It seems that Massa has learned from MS how to protect his position in starts.

[aryan]

It's simple, people are biased.
Forum members usually support drivers based on nationality.


What has nationality to do with it? People like or dislike celebrities based on some impressions they get from them, and how those impressions are in line with their own beliefs.

Should I remind you that Senna had a huge following and came from the same country as Massa does?



Also being a Ferrari driver doesn't help to much, as they are not liked since they dominated F1 for 5 consecutive years.

I didn't see Manchester United's fanabse dwinde after their total domination of the English Premier League early this decade. I can probably come up with dozens of similar examples off the top of my head.

[ioan]

What has nationality to do with it? People like or dislike celebrities based on some impressions they get from them, and how those impressions are in line with their own beliefs.

Should I remind you that Senna had a huge following and came from the same country as Massa does?

It's OK to contradict my POV but than it will be more difficult not to see that all the Finnish people around here are Kimi fans, also all the Spanish ones are Alonso fans, the English ones support their own drivers ( it was Button and DC till Hamilton came around) and so on.

Also do you think that British fans rooted more for Senna or for Mansell?
Or maybe French ones supported more Senna than they supported Prost?



I didn't see Manchester United's fanabse dwinde after their total domination of the English Premier League early this decade. I can probably come up with dozens of similar examples off the top of my head.

Do not compare a worldwide fan base with our forum.
A quick glimpse in the thread about the FIA favoring McLaren will show you how beneficial is to be part of the Ferrari team.

[F1boat]

Ioan, in general Ferrari is the most popular team. There was a FIA survey and Ferrari won easily.

[ioan]

Ioan, in general Ferrari is the most popular team. There was a FIA survey and Ferrari won easily.

You're right, I was referring only to the forum.

[Valve Bounce]

Ioan, in general Ferrari is the most popular team. There was a FIA survey and Ferrari won easily.

Every you lad wants to own a Ferrari when he is old enough to drive.
I dreamt of racing a red Ferrari when I was very young - had a little toy red car which I kept on the window sill next to my bed.
Never heard any kid wanting a Williams or Renault.

[ioan]

Every you lad wants to own a Ferrari when he is old enough to drive.
I dreamt of racing a red Ferrari when I was very young - had a little toy red car which I kept on the window sill next to my bed.
Never heard any kid wanting a Williams or Renault.

I've never heard about Williams when I first knew about Ferrari. I knew about Renault as most of the people were driving those around me.
But the very first I knew was Skoda! :D

[F1boat]

I've never heard about Williams when I first knew about Ferrari. I knew about Renault as most of the people were driving those around me.
But the very first I knew was Skoda! :D
Lucky you - my first memories from car were in Moskvich. Though I was young then and my memories were very pleasant :)

[Ed]

the thing with massa is that everyone remerbers the mistakes he made in 2002, 2004, and also last year. he's got a reputuation for dropping the car and has been out performed by past team mates. if Massa wins the title i think many poepl will start to believe that it is the car and not driver skill which is important anymore.

[F1boat]

the thing with massa is that everyone remerbers the mistakes he made in 2002, 2004, and also last year. he's got a reputuation for dropping the car and has been out performed by past team mates. if Massa wins the title i think many poepl will start to believe that it is the car and not driver skill which is important anymore.

Which will be sad, because Massa has a very strong teammate.

Probably, his origin doesn't have strong culture about car racing among top drivers and has no massive support for him.

I could be barking up the wrong tree here, but are you suggesting South America in general and Brazil in particular do not have a strong culture of motor-racing?

Brazil exports nearly as many drivers as Banana's

Please accept my apologies if that isn't what you meant.

Also being a Ferrari driver doesn't help to much, as they are not liked since they dominated F1 for 5 consecutive years.

Being a Ferrari driver guarantees a level of support which nationality has no impact on.

To add to that, being the preferred Ferrari driver of the Tifosi is a mixture of results and charisma.

At the moment, Massa has better results than his team-mate. As for charisma....well, the kindest thing to say is that it's a pretty light-weight duel between Felipe & Kimi since neither exactly have it in bundles.

Massa could, and this is not a definitive - just a suggestion, end up being the Tifosi favourite because he was percieved as the underdog/dogsbody/seat-filler/lapdog/weak-link (delete as you feel appropriate), and the Tifosi love a fighter who doesn't give up.

The other thing in his favour to influence the tifosi is that Kimi doesn't appear to be bothered/impressed/influenced with the whole 'Ferrari' mystique/legend.

That's not to say he isn't, but in general the tifosi don't much care for drivers who aren't in sync with the notion that Ferrari are special.

[jjanicke]

It's simple, people are biased.
Forum members usually support drivers based on nationality.

Also being a Ferrari driver doesn't help to much, as they are not liked since they dominated F1 for 5 consecutive years.

not "liking" MS and not "liking" Ferrari drivers are 2 very different things.

I for one didn't like MS the racer, although respect his speed and technical ability, but do like Rubens, and many before him that have raced for the scuderia.


It seems that Massa has learned from MS how to protect his position in starts.

That's unfair IMO. Massa has yet to perform the infamous schumi chop.

[leopard]

I could be barking up the wrong tree here, but are you suggesting South America in general and Brazil in particular do not have a strong culture of motor-racing?

Brazil exports nearly as many drivers as Banana's

Please accept my apologies if that isn't what you meant.

Apologies accepted!

[Valve Bounce]

He started mostly of the races off from the pole, if only there wasn't gearbox failure in Melbourne it wasn't impossible that he made the same start, and it will not be impossible also that we shall see he make the same start in front of anybody.

Strangely, he is not favorite winner of every race. Kimi and Alonso gain more voter than him although Massa was obvious the best man in qualifying. Massa is obviously a fast driver, like the blitz or the shark

When will he gain the same popularity as Alonso or Kimi?

When there are more coffee beans in Brazil than England. :D

[leopard]

the thing with massa is that everyone remerbers the mistakes he made in 2002, 2004, and also last year. he's got a reputuation for dropping the car and has been out performed by past team mates. if Massa wins the title i think many poepl will start to believe that it is the car and not driver skill which is important anymore.

This sounds like a priori, we can't judge current drivers in the light of their mistakes in the pasts, they will humanly learn from that mistakes to get any better from season to season. :)

[rlenis]

Probably, his origin doesn't have strong culture about car racing among top drivers and has no massive support for him.



you got to get out more, and pick up the newspaper every once in a while (world news section) . what an ignorant comment.

Do you at least know who Senna was and where he came from?

[leopard]

you got to get out more, and pick up the newspaper every once in a while (world news section) . what an ignorant comment.

Do you at least know who Senna was and where he came from?
I am not sure it is as strong as the remaining current top drivers' origin.
I could have missed out a race of A1 unless otherwise Brazil race was annuled and came undone, a thing to consider about level of interest about car racing there. He has supports, but many have overlooked him, maybe like you do, before this. ;)

[Roamy]

because he is not arrogant or outspoken - he is just a young professional.
no flash just cash. I like him a lot but he will never be a favorite because he is quiet.

He steps up does his job without much fanfare. but if he gets a WDC then maybe he will loosen up

[rlenis]

I am not sure it is as strong as the remaining current top drivers' origin.
I could have missed out a race of A1 unless otherwise Brazil race was annuled and came undone, a thing to consider about level of interest about car racing there. He has supports, but many have overlooked him, maybe like you do, before this. ;)

Dude, the "current" top drivers all come from different countries.. We do not have two spaniards at the top, we do not have two finish at the top, we certantly do not have two British at the top, do we have any italians, french, Portuguese, germans at the top, do we have a single country that have more then one top driver in F1 at the moment. The answer is No. So you have no idea what are you talking about.
Massa is the new Brazilian star and Hamilton is the new british one, what is the difference. ?? If you want to talk about aA1Gp a series, I can bring you IRL and CART, a lot of good Brazilian drivers sharing the top spots in those.

[rlenis]

and by the way about support. Did you know that the population in Brazil if far greater then any of the European countries. With Montoya gone, Massa now has the support of the entire Latin America.

[aryan]

It's OK to contradict my POV but than it will be more difficult not to see that all the Finnish people around here are Kimi fans, also all the Spanish ones are Alonso fans, the English ones support their own drivers ( it was Button and DC till Hamilton came around) and so on.


Point taken. I guess it's true that to an extent most people tend to feel an association with the driver of their country. It's only natural.

But I think most Finns have a very rational mind when it comes to Kimi, and I have seen them openly criticise him. Same for our British members and Button, who don't miss any opportunity to make passing judgements on his driving abilities or make fun of his surname or the number of races he compted in without winning. Do I need to point out that a recent thread called "is Webber just a flash?" was started by a fellow Aussie?

My point is, I think there is a difference between a fan and a zealot. Most fans like a certain driver/team, but accept their mistakes and even rationaly ciriticise them. Zealots are a different story of coure...

I guess that at the end of the day, it all comes down to our impressions and the personal experiences here. For whatever reason, you seem to think that this forum has a large number of Ferrari bashers, why is that, I don't know. I OTOH, think that aside from a couple of nut heads (which usually eventually get banned), most people are simply passionate logical fans here, not zealots.

YMMV.

And while we are on the subject of fantasy cars, am I the only one who would rather drive a Clio Williams than a Ferrari? (I can't afford to insure the latter anyway!) :D

[jas123f1]

He started mostly of the races off from the pole, if only there wasn't gearbox failure in Melbourne it wasn't impossible that he made the same start, and it will not be impossible also that we shall see he make the same start in front of anybody.

Strangely, he is not favorite winner of every race. Kimi and Alonso gain more voter than him although Massa was obvious the best man in qualifying. Massa is obviously a fast driver, like the blitz or the shark

When will he gain the same popularity as Alonso or Kimi?

I’m not sure but possible some people still are thinking that Massa make too many mistakes or don’t like Massa because he was as a “help driver” to Schumi earlier. However he is more popular today than before after his good season start. But - imo it’s still too early to say something about how it will go in future.

Everything can happen in F1 and it usually does. Only look what Hamilton is doing – a rookie and leading the championship. I think there are not so many (yet) who are seriously thinking that he will be the WDC 2007. But many of us was waiting that he should be as a “volunteer help driver” to Alonso, but he looks to be a guy who don’t like that kind of job and I’m sure we are many who will give him our respect for that. I think he all ready now (after his 4 races) is highly respected, especially in England, as a sportsman and VERY talent driver. :) We will see what happen when he make his first bigger mistake ... :)

[leopard]

... So you have no idea what are you talking about.
Massa is the new Brazilian star and Hamilton is the new british one, what is the difference. ?? If you want to talk about aA1Gp a series, I can bring you IRL and CART, a lot of good Brazilian drivers sharing the top spots in those.

Ha, probably or not sure of my posts indicating that my opinion didn’t tenaciously ask agreement that it’s always absolutely right. It more reflects allegation that people didn’t talk about Massa as intense as other top drivers the winner of every race, although it was obvious he's the best qualifying.

Associating to cancellation of A1 race there was only a parable that usually the thick culture of racing will support to host the race. Talking IRL or Cart I don't think I would mind but it has the more appropriate place.

I have yet neither checked statistic of pickemers in this forum nor more forums out there betting their $ for Massa, but roughly I can tell that it was far less than Kimi or Alonso. Checking it up again is strongly recommended :)

Cheers