2021 Race 1 Bahrain

[F1nKS]

After 1st practice

1. Max 1:31.394s
2. Bottas +0.298s
3. Norris +0.503s
4. Hamilton +0.527s
5. Lec +0.599s

[F1nKS]

after fp2

1. Max 1:30.847
2. Norris +0.095s
3. Hamilton +0.235s
4. Sainz +0.28s
5. Bottas +0.371s

[airshifter]

It will be interesting to see what happens for P3 and qually.

Any sandbagging should be out the window soon, and tomorrow we start figuring out true race pace.

I hope the midfield tightens up towards the front so we get more quality racing again this year!

[Nitrodaze]

Redbull looks genuinely the fastest. Mclaren is looking very good. Mercedes probably have a little more in the bag, but l doubt we shall see it this weekend. But the W12 look better behaved through both practices. It is interesting that we have not seen enough of Sergio Perez, l am sure he would be very close to Verstappen. Where are the Aston Martin's.

The top of the midfield seems crowded. Ferrari seems close enough to bother third place sitter. But they have very rapid Alpine and Alpha Tauri to contend with.

Yuki Tsunoda continue to impress. I think Gasly has a fight on his hands.

[The Black Knight]

It’s looking close but I have a feeling Mercedes are okay to lose 2021 to concentrate on 2022. I would if I were them anyway. The rule changes for next year are massive.

Hopefully an exciting year and I can’t wait to get rid of these donkey cars for next year. I was watching a 2005 F1 race last week and the cars look so alive compared to these monsters. These cars are so big they look far slower than they are.

[F1nKS]

Not much happening in FP3. Max came out late and put together his best run.

1. Max 1:30:577
2. Ham +0.739s
3. Gasly +1.006s
4. Bott +1.278s
5. Perez +1.33

It should be interesting qualifying, just because nobody really know the pecking order. It does look like RB has a good chance, but I think Hamilton is eating up this challenge and I won't be surprised if he is on poll position.

[F1nKS]

Tsunoda looks like a rookie, exciting rookie, but a rookie. Put amazing run in Q1, but gets eliminated in Q2.

Perez has a terrible qualifying out in Q2.

Vettel out in Q1

[Nitrodaze]

Wow! What a lap by Verstappen? Well, Mercedes have a fight on their hands and it seems it is not going to be easy. What about Gasly? What a strong showing just when Perez fumbles out of Q2.

The Ferrari is quick in Leclerc's hands. They seem strong for the fight for third in the constructors this season. A great step forward by Ferrari.

[F1nKS]

Winners and Losers from Qualification

Big Winner - Max

Winners
Leclerc (Ferrari looks to have made a jump to top of midfield)
Gasly
Ricardo
Merc (still pulled 2 and 3, and will be in position to win tomorrow, especially with Perez performance).


Losers
Vettel
Perez (Alex Albon can do this and probably cheaper)
Ocon
Maza-spin

[The Black Knight]

Tsunoda looks like a rookie, exciting rookie, but a rookie. Put amazing run in Q1, but gets eliminated in Q2.

Perez has a terrible qualifying out in Q2.

Vettel out in Q1

I think Tsunoda’s out lap was hindered by traffic and his car was no in the right window for final Q2 qualifying. He was easily outpacing Gasly up to that point. He has the early hallmarks of a great of the sport. I hope he lives up to his obvious ability.

Nice to see a battle out front. I think given the improvement they have made we may see Mercedes outpace RBR in 2-3 races. It’s a long season.

Qualifying was great but I find it ruined by the
Sky Sports F1 commentary. Crofty, Brundle are utter rubbish, making unfounded assumptions about Max’s car that the floor was damaged amongst the many bullshit they spout. Brundle, Crofty, Lazenby should all be fired from F1. Listening to them and their idiotic commentary making nonsense assumptions that they clearly know nothing about is painful. Year on year they are getting worse and worse. They are utter tripe.

[truefan72]

Tsunoda looks like a rookie, exciting rookie, but a rookie. Put amazing run in Q1, but gets eliminated in Q2.

Perez has a terrible qualifying out in Q2.

Vettel out in Q1

instantly regretting my choice to pick Vettel in my FGP team lol

[truefan72]

Wow! What a lap by Verstappen? Well, Mercedes have a fight on their hands and it seems it is not going to be easy. What about Gasly? What a strong showing just when Perez fumbles out of Q2.

The Ferrari is quick in Leclerc's hands. They seem strong for the fight for third in the constructors this season. A great step forward by Ferrari.

Honda engine looks legit.
Gasly looks legit.
Verstappen is gonna be tough to beat tomorrow.
TBH this is what Hamilton wanted. a true fight for the WCC
The Mercedes looks better than i expected.
Alonso in Q3 was also impressive
Don't know what happened to Perez, but I expect a strong showing in the race
Regretting My Vettel FGP selection already. Also slightly impressed with Stroll (can't believe i'm saying this lol) but overall, I'm sure Aston Martin would have been better off with Perez.
Ferrari engine is on the way back to the sharp end.
Impressed with the Mclaren boys.
Tsunoda will be interesting to watch, as will Ocon in the race
Mazepin is exactly where I thought he would be. and Haas is crap

[Zico]

I think Tsunoda’s out lap was hindered by traffic and his car was no in the right window for final Q2 qualifying. He was easily outpacing Gasly up to that point. He has the early hallmarks of a great of the sport. I hope he lives up to his obvious ability.

Nice to see a battle out front. I think given the improvement they have made we may see Mercedes outpace RBR in 2-3 races. It’s a long season.

Qualifying was great but I find it ruined by the
Sky Sports F1 commentary. Crofty, Brundle are utter rubbish, making unfounded assumptions about Max’s car that the floor was damaged amongst the many bullshit they spout. Brundle, Crofty, Lazenby should all be fired from F1. Listening to them and their idiotic commentary making nonsense assumptions that they clearly know nothing about is painful. Year on year they are getting worse and worse. They are utter tripe.
Its clear that Honda now have the best PU with Alpha Tauri also being up at the sharp end but Tsunoda certainly made a good initial impression for a rookie and he can only get better and reduce his errors as he learns his trade.

Yes, I fear the same. I'm also worried RB's race pace may not be quite so dominant tomorrow plus Perez not performing today has given Merc a possible strategy advantage. We'll just have to wait and see..


The others I don't care for but I've always enjoyed Brundles input so personally, I hope he stays. :o :D
I haven't watched Qualy yet but I was listening to Qualy on five live and I'm sure they mentioned something about some carbon debris coming off Max's car when he ran wide over a kerb. Max also radiod in asking them to check the floor when he returned to the pits, so there must have been something. Clearly not enough to have a big impact judging from that lap though. That was impressive.

[lmmjvss]

2021's "midfield" is pratically EVERYBODY! Thats really promising. Also, F2's grid looks stronger than ever!

[F1nKS]

Things go bad to worse for Vettel. Vettel has been summoned to the stewards and faces a 5 place grid drop for not respecting the yellow flags. Not a good start for vettel.

[Zico]

Things go bad to worse for Vettel. Vettel has been summoned to the stewards and faces a 5 place grid drop for not respecting the yellow flags. Not a good start for vettel.




Heres a thought... RP previously winged it by tracing the Merc ie; without a full technical understanding of the car.. Now with the new regs and no solid technical foundation to build from, they could actually be back at square -5.
What we have seen already, could be the early signs of that.

I have a feeling this could well be Vettels worst season ever. :/

[truefan72]

RBR already shafting Perez. These guys don’t give a crap about the 2nd car. The engineers, mechanics, race strategy etc.

[truefan72]

Mazepin being mazepin. Utterly useless. Hope Hass is happy with their driver decision. I expect many more this season

[truefan72]

And there goes MSC with a spin

[denkimi]

I wonder if there is something wrong with the rear design of the haas, or if its just their policy of hiring 2 paydrivers that makes them spin.

[The Black Knight]

Bottas 5 seconds behind Lewis after 8 laps of racing. I think Mercedes will regret signing him for this season. They should have signed Russell. Bottas is simply not good enough. Drop Bottas and bring Russell in.

[Nitrodaze]

I wonder if there is something wrong with the rear design of the haas, or if its just their policy of hiring 2 paydrivers that makes them spin.

Heavy money bags at the rear end you mean lol.

[truefan72]

Stupid Mercedes. Ridiculous undercutting their own strategy. Epic failure

[denkimi]

I wonder if there is something wrong with the rear design of the haas, or if its just their policy of hiring 2 paydrivers that makes them spin.
And another stupid mistake from vettel.

Hard to imagine nowadays that he actually is a 4 times champion.

[The Black Knight]

Whoof! What a race. Absolutely epic. Max had his chance and blew it! Only Hamilton could win a race like that! I hate his politics but he is unquestionably one of the greatest of all time.

[Tazio]

Brilliant race by The Boss!

[Nitrodaze]

Well, Hamilton just showed why he is one of the greatest drivers of all time. With a slower car, he wins what seemed like an uphill task at best. Redbull and Verstappen have been served notice that they have an uphill battle to beat the invincible combination of Mercedes and Hamilton. RBR have to do better. With Perez out of position and Verstappen not able to use the speed advantage effectively today, it has revealed what a challenge they have on their hands.

But on to the next one. Verstappen clearly has a real chance to cause an upset. But can he?

[Nitrodaze]

Bottas,37 minutes behind the leading pair. I really wonder why he is still in that Mercedes seat?

[The Black Knight]

Bottas,37 minutes behind the leading pair. I really wonder why he is still in that Mercedes seat?

Well he lost 8 seconds in the pitstop and had an extra 23 seconds stops but he was never in contention. Mercedes need to rid themselves of him honestly, when you can’t beat a guy that stepped into the car two days previous after 4 years in the team you don’t deserve your drive.

[N. Jones]

I can't remember an opening race when everybody was so racey! Good race. It makes me excited for the season!

[truefan72]

Bottas,37 minutes behind the leading pair. I really wonder why he is still in that Mercedes seat?

indeed. They should have made the switch to Russell. Even as a rear gunner he isn't that great.
I wonder what his excuse will be this time.
It is clear to me that Bottas is a competent driver, but not the fastest and lacks that aggression, will-power to push his car to fight.
If the roles were reversed, after the first stint, Hamilton would have done everything in his power to close up to Verstappen.
Bottas, seems content to just kinda languish and bring in the podium.
Then gives a presser talking about his disappointment and not winning.
I know the stupid pitstop cost him in this race, but he was always on pace to finish p3 and showed no signs of even trying to challenge the top 2.

[truefan72]

Me too.
I think we will see more than 5 different race winners this year.
also good to see that Ferrari have clawed their way back to being competitive again.
There really is nothing between, Ferrari, Mclaren and AlphaTauri with Alpine & Aston Martin inches behind them
Sauber and Williams will be close (TBH Russell and the Sauber pair ) and probably pick up points here and there.

one thing is for sure. Mazepin isn't an F1 driver and the Haas looks uncompetitive.

[Nitrodaze]

Well he lost 8 seconds in the pitstop and had an extra 23 seconds stops but he was never in contention. Mercedes need to rid themselves of him honestly, when you can’t beat a guy that stepped into the car two days previous after 4 years in the team you don’t deserve your drive.

True, The Mercedes pit messed up his pitstop. But even so, he did not show any real desire to get back into contention.

[F1nKS]

Winners and Losers

Winners:
Hamilton - Anybody have any doubt he won't win the championship

Norris - solid race
Ferrari - they are at least back to top of mid-field
Tusnoda

Losers
Red Bull - welp, Mercedes will only get better. Solid #2. Perez = Albon 2.0

Bottas - say Hello to Russell
Vettel - stroll beat you
Alonso - welcome to the back of the midfield
Maze-spin - can't even make 1 lap
Gasly - looked like he just gave up once his race was spoiled

[truefan72]

Winners and Losers

Winners:
Hamilton - Anybody have any doubt he won't win the championship

Norris - solid race
Ferrari - they are at least back to top of mid-field
Tusnoda

Losers
Red Bull - welp, Mercedes will only get better. Solid #2. Perez = Albon 2.0

Bottas - say Hello to Russell
Vettel - stroll be you
Alonso - welcome to the back of the midfield
Maze-spin - can't even make 1 lap
Gasly - looked like he just gave up once his race was spoiled
Gasly performance today was baffling. I did hear that there might have been some damage to the car but tbh it still seems odd. His control unit like verstappen’s was also changed prior to the race. Gasly could have finished p3-5 today. Oh well

[airshifter]

Winners and Losers

Winners:
Hamilton - Anybody have any doubt he won't win the championship

Norris - solid race
Ferrari - they are at least back to top of mid-field
Tusnoda

Losers
Red Bull - welp, Mercedes will only get better. Solid #2. Perez = Albon 2.0

Bottas - say Hello to Russell
Vettel - stroll be you
Alonso - welcome to the back of the midfield
Maze-spin - can't even make 1 lap
Gasly - looked like he just gave up once his race was spoiled



I think that is rather hard on Perez. Given his issues at the start, he did quite well to bring the car back to where he finished. Albon was lucky to get there after a normal qually and race start.



As for Losers I'd like to add

Seb - beyond Lance, quit whining when you run into someone!

Race control - They let turn 4 rules be ignored for quite a long time. Car or not, there is surely an advantage to be gained if drivers are out there.



It looks like it may still be a two horse race up front unless Merc gets the solid upper hand, but the midfield is really going to be crazy. Great opener to the season.

I still say Bottas will be the weak link if the RB/Merc battle has the cars fairly even. With two Mercs to put pressure on RB, Bottas really did nothing to help. Sergio at least made the most of a bad starting position and kept fighting.

[Zico]

Winners and Losers

Winners:
Hamilton - Anybody have any doubt he won't win the championship

Norris - solid race
Ferrari - they are at least back to top of mid-field
Tusnoda

Losers
Red Bull - welp, Mercedes will only get better. Solid #2. Perez = Albon 2.0

Bottas - say Hello to Russell
Vettel - stroll be you
Alonso - welcome to the back of the midfield
Maze-spin - can't even make 1 lap
Gasly - looked like he just gave up once his race was spoiled



Agreed on the whole, maybe a tad harsh on Perez though considering he fought his way back to 5th from the pitlane? I thought he did ok ish considering and I'd give him more time before writing him off.

What an opener, stonking great race, Lewis was quite brilliant holding off Max at the end aided by Max having to give the place back for track limits. Loved it.. exactly what F1 needed. Congrats to Merc and Lewis.

Re-track limits. I'll have to watch it again closer this time but weren't both Mercs also exceeding them there most of the race only for track limits to start being enforced again later on and costing Max? I don't like that they can influence the race that way. Either solidly enforce them consistently everywhere the whole race or not at all please.

[Nitrodaze]

Gasly performance today was baffling. I did hear that there might have been some damage to the car but tbh it still seems odd. His control unit like Verstappen was also changed prior to the race. Gasly could have finished p3-5 today. Oh well

It was unlucky that he tagged Ricciado's Mclaren. It sort of damaged the car and spoilt his race. He would be better next time l am sure.

I was impressed with Perez. I think he showed what an impact he can have for Redbull if they prepare him properly for the race. If Perez had started in the top four, this race today may have been quite different. Even from the 11th, he may have had an impact on the race, particularly since Bottas was not quite on it.

I think the next race may be even harder for Mercedes if Redbull can prepare two cars to race-winning standard. It is also interesting that Norris beat Ricciado fair and square at this race. I was expecting it to be the other way round. A bad day for Alpine, they clearly have a strong race car.

It is a dog eat dog grid we have this season. No let off and no errors or sloppiness goes unpunished.

[F1nKS]

I am not impressed with Perez. He is the guy on the dodge ball team who is most comfortable hanging back, biding his time, waiting for somebody to make a mistake, picking up the scraps.

He is in the car that got pole position, but he ended up 11th in qualifying. Albon qualified 4th in this GP last year.

In the race, I won't ding Perez for the issue on the warmup lap, but you can go into a lap by lap comparison and throw out the pitting, safety car laps and look for comparable lap times between him and Max and you find:

Perez averaged 0.8 seconds behind Max for the race that for total of 38.3 seconds behind max in raw pace in 52 laps.

Albon similarly on the same track averaged 0.52 seconds behind Max using 49 laps for 25.8 seconds. Albon finished 3rd in the race.

Perez has to be better. He has to be in position that if Max and Hamilton take each other out, he wins the race.

[F1nKS]

Agreed on the whole, maybe a tad harsh on Perez though considering he fought his way back to 5th from the pitlane? I thought he did ok ish considering and I'd give him more time before writing him off.

It is probably to harsh, but Perez has to get out the mind set that just getting good points is good enough. If he not fighting for podium, then he is not doing his job.


What an opener, stonking great race, Lewis was quite brilliant holding off Max at the end aided by Max having to give the place back for track limits. Loved it.. exactly what F1 needed. Congrats to Merc and Lewis.

Yes he was brilliant.


Re-track limits. I'll have to watch it again closer this time but weren't both Mercs also exceeding them there most of the race only for track limits to start being enforced again later on and costing Max? I don't like that they can influence the race that way. Either solidly enforce them consistently everywhere the whole race or not at all please.

Yes him and Bottas were abusing track limits, but Horner came on the radio and told Max to do it also until they were told otherwise. But you are right the FIA should either enforce track limits from the start. It not really appropriate to do it mid-way thru the race. In the end, I don't think it made a difference to the finish.

[airshifter]

I am not impressed with Perez. He is the guy on the dodge ball team who is most comfortable hanging back, biding his time, waiting for somebody to make a mistake, picking up the scraps.

He is in the car that got pole position, but he ended up 11th in qualifying. Albon qualified 4th in this GP last year.

In the race, I won't ding Perez for the issue on the warmup lap, but you can go into a lap by lap comparison and throw out the pitting, safety car laps and look for comparable lap times between him and Max and you find:

Perez averaged 0.8 seconds behind Max for the race that for total of 38.3 seconds behind max in raw pace in 52 laps.

Albon similarly on the same track averaged 0.52 seconds behind Max using 49 laps for 25.8 seconds. Albon finished 3rd in the race.

Perez has to be better. He has to be in position that if Max and Hamilton take each other out, he wins the race.


Albon only advanced due to the fact the Bottas got a puncture and Perez blew up. Otherwise he would have lost positions during the race. That was after a season and a half in the car. Sergio rolled the dice in qually on the harder tires, and paid the price. But the pre race issues cost him the other positions.

Though he is a more experienced driver, thinking his first drive in a new seat should always eclipse Albon's better drives is just rather reaching IMHO. As compared to the race of Bottas today, Perez was more or less superhuman. Comparing apples to oranges will always skew things.




As for the track limits thing, I think that was Horners way of making sure it was on record that Merc (and others) were breaching the rules. Strange that there was no enforcement until well after he told Max to ignore the rules also. I personally think that when it's been spelled out that clear that they should set the example early in the race and issue warnings on the initial offenses.

[Nitrodaze]

I am not impressed with Perez. He is the guy on the dodge ball team who is most comfortable hanging back, biding his time, waiting for somebody to make a mistake, picking up the scraps.

He is in the car that got pole position, but he ended up 11th in qualifying. Albon qualified 4th in this GP last year.

In the race, I won't ding Perez for the issue on the warmup lap, but you can go into a lap by lap comparison and throw out the pitting, safety car laps and look for comparable lap times between him and Max and you find:

Perez averaged 0.8 seconds behind Max for the race that for total of 38.3 seconds behind max in raw pace in 52 laps.

Albon similarly on the same track averaged 0.52 seconds behind Max using 49 laps for 25.8 seconds. Albon finished 3rd in the race.

Perez has to be better. He has to be in a position that if Max and Hamilton take each other out, he wins the race.

Well if you factor into the equation that he has only had four full days in the car going into qualifying, with new engineers he has never worked with before, then you would understand why everyone thinks you are being harsh on Perez. He could have had a better race from 11th if he did not have electrical problems that momentarily switched off the engine on the way back from the warmup lap and had to start from the pitlane.

From last to 5th is the sort of stuff we see from Hamilton, Alonso and Verstappen. He did good considering. He would definitely be better in Italy.

[Nitrodaze]

As for the track limits thing, I think that was Horners way of making sure it was on record that Merc (and others) were breaching the rules. Strange that there was no enforcement until well after he told Max to ignore the rules also. I personally think that when it's been spelled out that clear that they should set the example early in the race and issue warnings on the initial offenses.

Well, Horner's complaints about track limits eventually cost Redbull the race. That Verstappen's overtake with 2 laps to go may have been overlooked by the stewards otherwise. And he may have gone on to win the race. As Hamilton with ragged tyres would not have been able to fight with him thereafter.

[denkimi]

As far as i understood they had a written notice from race control which said they had to respect track limits during qualifying. But when reading it closer, Mercedes concluded that it said nothing about the race itself.
So they gave their drivers orders to go outside the track since there was no warning not to yet.

Redbull only realised this halfway the race and told max and perez to do the same until they were told by race control not to.

Which, by itself, woke up the stewards. Who then told everyone to respect the track limits.

Basically a genius move from mercedes and/or a screw up from the stewards.

[Nitrodaze]

As far as i understood they had a written notice from race control which said they had to respect track limits during qualifying. But when reading it closer, Mercedes concluded that it said nothing about the race itself.
So they gave their drivers orders to go outside the track since there was no warning not to yet.

Redbull only realised this halfway the race and told max and perez to do the same until they were told by race control not to.

Which, by itself, woke up the stewards. Who then told everyone to respect the track limits.

Basically a genius move from mercedes and/or a screw up from the stewards.

It was basically an open radio indirect complaint. They did not need to go off track to be fast, they just hated the fact that Mercedes was doing it.

[Firstgear]

Haas throttle connected to the steering linkage?

[denkimi]

It was basically an open radio indirect complaint. They did not need to go off track to be fast, they just hate the fact that Mercedes was doing it.
Well no, going off was faster. Otherwise nobody would do it and there would have been no need for an extra stewards notice.

It's just that redbull either had not thorougly read the stewards communication or they had interpreted it different.

Redbull was suprised they were allowed to do it, since they thought it had been banned from the start.
And later on mercedes was suprised they were no longer allowed to do it, since the given stewards communication did not metion the race, they had been doing it all race and were not reprimanded by the stewards.

[N. Jones]

Maze-spin lived up to his nickname.

[Nitrodaze]

Well no, going off was faster. Otherwise nobody would do it and there would have been no need for an extra stewards notice.

It's just that redbull either had not thorougly read the stewards communication or they had interpreted it different.

Redbull was suprised they were allowed to do it, since they thought it had been banned from the start.
And later on mercedes was suprised they were no longer allowed to do it, since the given stewards communication did not metion the race, they had been doing it all race and were not reprimanded by the stewards.

Martin Brundle explained why it was not faster. The Mercedes still has instability,so they need that run-off area to maintain speed through that corner. The Redbull didn't!

[The Black Knight]

Martin Brundle explained why it was not faster. The Mercedes still has instability,so they need that run-off area to maintain speed through that corner. The Redbull didn't!

It was faster for Mercedes!

But this is the nonsense we’ve always been speaking about. Inconsistency in the rules. I can’t understand why the f**k it is so difficult for these clowns to make even one unambiguous rule. And if they do make a mistake then at least have the good grace to live by it but stop making it up as they go along.

I actually think it’ll take a incident of a team taking a penalty to the WMSC or even further because these clowns applied an unfair penalty to stop this happening. Otherwise we’re stuck with this nonsense.

[airshifter]

Martin Brundle explained why it was not faster. The Mercedes still has instability,so they need that run-off area to maintain speed through that corner. The Redbull didn't!

So the car that doesn't handle as well can exceed the limits the better handling cars must use?

As the rule was set, they allowed that a car might occasionally go deep and exceed limits. But then they allowed some cars to do it for the entire race essentially, until the other cars started using the same advantage. I have no issue with the fact that they made Max give the position back. After all, a pass is a lasting advantage. However if a car is intentionally going beyond limits, it's to gain time, which is also a lasting advantage. The last I checked races are won by completing them in less time.

They need to either always enforce it, preferably with a pre-determined limit to the number of times to account for driver error, or don't enforce it at all, and let the drivers decide what the track limits are.

[Nitrodaze]

So the car that doesn't handle as well can exceed the limits the better handling cars must use?

As the rule was set, they allowed that a car might occasionally go deep and exceed limits. But then they allowed some cars to do it for the entire race essentially, until the other cars started using the same advantage. I have no issue with the fact that they made Max give the position back. After all, a pass is a lasting advantage. However if a car is intentionally going beyond limits, it's to gain time, which is also a lasting advantage. The last I checked races are won by completing them in less time.

They need to either always enforce it, preferably with a pre-determined limit to the number of times to account for driver error, or don't enforce it at all, and let the drivers decide what the track limits are.

That is one way of looking at it. The stewards confused matters with their about-turn on track limits. The race director imposed track limits for qualifying but suggested he would not during the race. Mercedes on that understanding raced accordingly. They only tightened the rules on track limits after Horner moaned about it. His radio instructions to Verstappen to exceed track limits where the Hamilton was repeatedly seen to do, triggered the response from the stewards. They promptly issued a warning to Mercedes on track limits which the Mercedes pitwall instantly informed both their drivers.

Unfortunately, Verstappen subsequently needed to exceed track limits to complete his overtake of Hamilton. Which unfortunately placed the stewards in a position whereby they had no choice but to impose the track limit rule on Verstappen, causing him to have to give the place back or face a time punishment. If they hadn't complained about it, chances are Verstappen may have won the race. You cannot eat your cake and have it, the old English adage goes.

[airshifter]

Well I'd be hard pressed to believe that any car not intentionally using a line beyond track limits is doing it just for fun. They do it to lessen lap times, which is in fact gaining a lasting advantage. The fact that it was allowed, then disallowed when used by other drivers completely lacks consistency.

If they redefined the limits to be the grass and gravel, anyone not in the grass and gravel should not be penalized. If they did not redefine the limits beyond the white lines, anyone crossing them should have been warned early on, or faced penalty.

What they actually did was neither of the above.

[Bagwan]

Red Bull , it seems , took the high road here .
They could have done as Max apparently suggested , and took the penalty , relying on Max to try to get the time back by getting more than 5 seconds ahead of Lewis .
I also think they had a real chance of arguing that Max knew the Lewis also had a car on the other side of him , so would expect Lewis to be firstly distracted , and secondly , potentially unable to avoid him , had Max run a tighter line .

Merc cars were unable to run the corner at that speed without running wide but were never penalized for it .
To give the place back was the gentleman racer thing to do and should reflect well on them .

[Nitrodaze]

Two of the greatest driver the chaps at Sky say, referring to Hamilton and Verstappen. That made me chuckle a bit. How they lower the bar for greatness so easily.

Anyhow, right as usual Baggie, the Mercedes is not as fast within the strict track limits. Also, Verstappen assumes he would have got a five-second penalty if he was allowed to ignore the warning from the stewards to give the place back. Chances were that he may have got five seconds for the off-track infringement and another five for ignoring the warning.

It was unfortunate but l think they would definitely win the next one if they come better prepared. With Perez properly prepared and in the mix. The Redbull just has a better pace than the Mercedes at the mo.

Come to think of it, Mercedes was haggling on wages with a driver that can deliver this sort of win out of a half-chance only a few months ago.

[airshifter]

Red Bull , it seems , took the high road here .
They could have done as Max apparently suggested , and took the penalty , relying on Max to try to get the time back by getting more than 5 seconds ahead of Lewis .
I also think they had a real chance of arguing that Max knew the Lewis also had a car on the other side of him , so would expect Lewis to be firstly distracted , and secondly , potentially unable to avoid him , had Max run a tighter line .

Merc cars were unable to run the corner at that speed without running wide but were never penalized for it .
To give the place back was the gentleman racer thing to do and should reflect well on them .

Overall I think RB did the right thing, and Max for a change seemed to run a much more mature thinking race then he usually does. They probably could have pushed a point with the stewards, and the fact that the rules were vague at best, not to mention the fact that they contradicted the sporting regs.

The battle in the last laps did show one issue that still exists from last year though. It seems that the car that has to attack from behind has limited time to do it or it kills the tires quickly. They still aren't dealing well with dirty air and how it impacts them. This will probably limit the tight duels that go on for many laps, but at least now they can run closer than in past years.

[Nitrodaze]

Overall I think RB did the right thing, and Max for a change seemed to run a much more mature thinking race then he usually does. They probably could have pushed a point with the stewards, and the fact that the rules were vague at best, not to mention the fact that they contradicted the sporting regs.

The battle in the last laps did show one issue that still exists from last year though. It seems that the car that has to attack from behind has limited time to do it or it kills the tires quickly. They still aren't dealing well with dirty air and how it impacts them. This will probably limit the tight duels that go on for many laps, but at least now they can run closer than in past years.

They are using new tyre compounds this season. Very different from last season's compound. Besides, it takes a couple of laps to clean the tyres when they collect dirt from running off track. I think the Redbull car has the pace advantage to overcome the negative impact of the dirty air. Unfortunately, Verstappen ran off at a part of the track limits that was dirtier than the part Hamilton had been using. I doubt the effects of dirty tyres would change with next season's car.

[Bagwan]

"Chances were that he may have got five seconds for the off-track infringement and another five for ignoring the warning."

Nitro , the warning was that he would get a penalty , so it's not likely he would get a second penalty . That doesn't make sense at all .

If you think about it , Max had a point when he suggested staying in first place .
Staying there would mean they could argue the point , and even if Max couldn't get far enough away from Lewis to negate the 5 second penalty , the two of them were more than 5 seconds ahead of everyone else , so he wouldn't have dropped farther behind than second place , where he finished the race anyway .

But , the way it finished , with Max second , there's no way to regain the position , as you'd have to penalize Lewis , who hadn't done anything wrong in the incident , even if he had crossed the line multiple times before without any outside influence .

I even think it's arguable that because the Mercs were going wide there all race long , that the tires would have been less tortured than if they had stayed inside the line , thus making it more possible for Max to have repassed him in the end .

And , Shifter , I think you're right about Max being more mature , as he toed the team line right away and didn't seem to freak out as he might have done in the past .

[Nitrodaze]

"Chances were that he may have got five seconds for the off-track infringement and another five for ignoring the warning."

Nitro , the warning was that he would get a penalty , so it's not likely he would get a second penalty . That doesn't make sense at all .

If you think about it , Max had a point when he suggested staying in first place .
Staying there would mean they could argue the point , and even if Max couldn't get far enough away from Lewis to negate the 5 second penalty , the two of them were more than 5 seconds ahead of everyone else , so he wouldn't have dropped farther behind than second place , where he finished the race anyway .

But , the way it finished , with Max second , there's no way to regain the position , as you'd have to penalize Lewis , who hadn't done anything wrong in the incident , even if he had crossed the line multiple times before without any outside influence .

I even think it's arguable that because the Mercs were going wide there all race long , that the tires would have been less tortured than if they had stayed inside the line , thus making it more possible for Max to have repassed him in the end .

And , Shifter , I think you're right about Max being more mature , as he toed the team line right away and didn't seem to freak out as he might have done in the past .

I agree, they would have had the opportunity to argue the point. But they would be arguing the point with stewards whose warning has been ignored as well as a strongly complaining Mercedes. They would start the season with bad blood with the stewards. And the stewards have discretionary additional points that they are allowed to dish out where they find it would serve to discourage their warnings from being ignored. The Redbull pit wall made the right call under the circumstances. For Verstappen supporters, l can see why they would feel that he has been hard done by. But that is not the case.

This is one of those things that is fraught with controversy either way. If Verstappen had won the race by ignoring the Stewards, he would have gained an advantage by ignoring the stewards as he would not have won the race otherwise, as the final outcome shows. And Mercedes would argue that point strongly. It would be a dodgy win and it surprises me that Verstappen suggested it in the first place. The mentality of winning by hook or crook does not impress me. That should not be the ethos of the sport.

You could argue the Mercedes were exceeding track limits for most of the race. But there was no clear infringement at that stage of the race as they were led to believe it was ok to do that. Hence, it would not be fair to suggest that they cheated in any way.

[Mia 01]

In my opinion it was wrong of Max to give up his position after the overtake. Better the stewards decided after the race.

[Firstgear]

The mentality of winning by hook or crook does not impress me. That should not be the ethos of the sport.
I'm really surprised to see you say that, as I thought you were a MS fan.
I think the main reason Max gave the place back (and so quickly) was because he thought he had the time and the car to get the pass done again, properly. So give it back the sooner the better so he'd have more time to attack. As it turns out, he didn't pull it off...but I still think he did the right thing. He is starting to show more and more signs of maturity, and I'm starting to dislike him less.

[Firstgear]

In my opinion it was wrong of Max to give up his position after the overtake. Better the stewards decided after the race.
I have to disagree with that. I don't ever like it when it's decided after the race, especially if it's for the win.

[F1nKS]

In my opinion it was wrong of Max to give up his position after the overtake. Better the stewards decided after the race.

I think Red Bull did the right thing. The stewards were most likely going to penalize him if he didn't give it back. By giving it back, he still had a few laps left that could have actually still won the race.

That being said, you have to hand it to Hamilton. He defended well and made it that the only way Max was passing at that time was off the track. Also, there is data showing that Hamilton was superior in taking care of his tires. Max tire degradation was 2x hire than Hamilton. Plus I think Max had some "red mist" after having to give the position back and he just didn't drive as well.

[Nitrodaze]

I have watched this race again and l have to say this was a fantastic race. It is quite clear that Verstappen and the Redbull car is the combination to beat this season. It is also very clear that the chassis regulations has disadvantaged the low rake cars of Mercedes and Aston Martin significantly. There would always be the thought behind our minds as to whether the F1 establishment did it to slow down the Mercedes or give the high rakes of Redbull, Ferrari and Mclaren a chance to be closer to the Mercedes. Whatever the case, we have a cracker of a season ahead.

Hamilton displayed a masterclass drive where he displayed supreme defensive driving on 11 laps older tyres than Verstappen, soaking up immense pressure and wearing out Verstappen's tyres in the process. The true measure of his driving is that he won the race with nearly a full second ahead of a faster Verstappen. Judging by how worn out Verstappen's tyres were, l wonder if he would have won the race if he had not given the place back. Because, after that turn four trip off the track, his tyres got much worst than Hamilton's. There is a good chance that Hamilton may have passed him back, we would never know.

This was a race fought between the fastest drivers of the season without the interference of their wingmen. Bottas finished 3rd but was a good 20 minutes behind the front runners. It was a race won by the driver and not really the car. And makes the point that having the fastest car helps, but it takes more than the car sometimes to win. And both drivers in different ways showed that very point.

[The Black Knight]

Two of the greatest driver the chaps at Sky say, referring to Hamilton and Verstappen. That made me chuckle a bit. How they lower the bar for greatness so easily.

Hamilton has 7 WDC’s - hardly a low bar.

Max on the other hand has a lot to prove. It wouldn’t surprise me if he eventually turns out a bit like Vettel. RBR have this tendency to overhype and spoil one driver. Max believes his own press now that he is one of the GOATs. He has to prove it and he’s very far away from doing that.

[Nitrodaze]

Hamilton has 7 WDC’s - hardly a low bar.

Max on the other hand has a lot to prove. It wouldn’t surprise me if he eventually turns out a bit like Vettel. RBR have this tendency to overhype and spoil one driver. Max believes his own press now that he is one of the GOATs. He has to prove it and he’s very far away from doing that.

My point exactly. It is ridiculous to call someone "one of the greatest drivers" before they win an F1 world championship title. that would make the entire grid "one of the greatest drivers". It is insulting to the seven times world champion l find. WTF.

It was said by someone that has never won an F1 drivers world title, so l guess they don't properly appreciate what it takes to win one of those.

[gm99]

Bottas,37 minutes behind the leading pair.


Bottas finished 3rd but was a good 20 minutes behind the front runners.

Well, he's almost halved the difference since Sunday, so that's a good thing.
Still, twenty minutes is a long time. Didn't Hamilton and Verstappen get bored waiting for Bottas to finally turn up for the podium ceremony?

[Bagwan]

I agree, they would have had the opportunity to argue the point. But they would be arguing the point with stewards whose warning has been ignored as well as a strongly complaining Mercedes. They would start the season with bad blood with the stewards. And the stewards have discretionary additional points that they are allowed to dish out where they find it would serve to discourage their warnings from being ignored. The Redbull pit wall made the right call under the circumstances. For Verstappen supporters, l can see why they would feel that he has been hard done by. But that is not the case.

This is one of those things that is fraught with controversy either way. If Verstappen had won the race by ignoring the Stewards, he would have gained an advantage by ignoring the stewards as he would not have won the race otherwise, as the final outcome shows. And Mercedes would argue that point strongly. It would be a dodgy win and it surprises me that Verstappen suggested it in the first place. The mentality of winning by hook or crook does not impress me. That should not be the ethos of the sport.

You could argue the Mercedes were exceeding track limits for most of the race. But there was no clear infringement at that stage of the race as they were led to believe it was ok to do that. Hence, it would not be fair to suggest that they cheated in any way.

The stewards are expected to be impartial .
If Max and his team believed they were not guilty of an infraction , and believed they had reason to question the call , they had every right to let Max go , and sort it out afterwards .

They were warned and they complied .
But the stewards were there to listen to any complaint without bias , as this situation was anything but clear .
If there was any "bad blood" with the stewards caused by this , then it would be Red Bull that would have a complaint .

If they had taken that route , but were able to prove they didn't deserve penalty , there would never have been anything "dodgy" about it .

And , I'm not surprised at all that Max suggested it , as I've already suggested he may have had a point .

And , finally , Nitro , "dodgy" is perhaps a word that could be used when a team exceeds track limits for a large portion of the race when all the others were respecting the boundaries .
The FIA believed it was necessary to place that limit on that particular corner because of potential time gain .
All the teams , including Merc would have understood that the FIA didn't want you going wide there , but because the FIA missed saying "during the race" , Merc chose to take advantage .
That could be seen as a bit "dodgy" , and maybe against the intentions of the stewards , but not technically illegal .
If anything would cause that "bad blood" scenario that you mentioned , it would be "taking the mick" in this way .

They stopped when they were warned , so technically no foul , but there was , indeed ,"clear infringement" , as they were warned in the first place .

To be clear , I am still impressed by the fact that they took the high road , and had Max comply with the order .

[Nitrodaze]

Well, he's almost halved the difference since Sunday, so that's a good thing.
Still, twenty minutes is a long time. Didn't Hamilton and Verstappen get bored waiting for Bottas to finally turn up for the podium ceremony?

Come on, one has to factor in the time lost to the crap pitstop. I suppose you would like everyone to screen all your posts from now on.

[Nitrodaze]

The stewards are expected to be impartial .
If Max and his team believed they were not guilty of an infraction , and believed they had reason to question the call , they had every right to let Max go , and sort it out afterwards .

They were warned and they complied .
But the stewards were there to listen to any complaint without bias , as this situation was anything but clear .
If there was any "bad blood" with the stewards caused by this , then it would be Red Bull that would have a complaint .

If they had taken that route , but were able to prove they didn't deserve penalty , there would never have been anything "dodgy" about it .

And , I'm not surprised at all that Max suggested it , as I've already suggested he may have had a point .

And , finally , Nitro , "dodgy" is perhaps a word that could be used when a team exceeds track limits for a large portion of the race when all the others were respecting the boundaries .
The FIA believed it was necessary to place that limit on that particular corner because of potential time gain .
All the teams , including Merc would have understood that the FIA didn't want you going wide there , but because the FIA missed saying "during the race" , Merc chose to take advantage .
That could be seen as a bit "dodgy" , and maybe against the intentions of the stewards , but not technically illegal .
If anything would cause that "bad blood" scenario that you mentioned , it would be "taking the mick" in this way .

They stopped when they were warned , so technically no foul , but there was , indeed ,"clear infringement" , as they were warned in the first place .

To be clear , I am still impressed by the fact that they took the high road , and had Max comply with the order .

I wonder how you would expect them to have any sort of conversation that would result in anything other than a five to ten seconds penalty if they ignored the warning of the stewards. I don't understand your reasoning. It just comes across as if anything other than a Verstappen win was not good enough for you. He would get many, so hang on until the next race.
But l am sorry to say, the Redbull team did the right thing. Ignoring stewards warning is not going to endear them to the stewards.

Winning by going off track and ignoring the steward's warning in the process, would suggest that Redbull operates to different set of rules to the rest of the grid.

[Mia 01]

As Landon Norris says after he has rewiwed the race. Max overtook Lewis on track it was only a few seconds after that he slipped a bit. My opinion stands, Max should have kept his position.

[The Black Knight]

As Landon Norris says after he has rewiwed the race. Max overtook Lewis on track it was only a few seconds after that he slipped a bit. My opinion stands, Max should have kept his position.

He went off track to ensure he kept the position. It was the right decision. It’s Max not Kimi he was fighting so you can take off the blinkers ;)

[The Black Knight]

My point exactly. It is ridiculous to call someone "one of the greatest drivers" before they win an F1 world championship title. that would make the entire grid "one of the greatest drivers". It is insulting to the seven times world champion l find. WTF.

It was said by someone that has never won an F1 drivers world title, so l guess they don't properly appreciate what it takes to win one of those.

100% agree. I’ve said it time and time again that Max is overrated given the car he has had and what he has achieved. It took him way too long to get his first pole position. The jury is out on him and time will tell.

[Zico]

With the benefit of hindsight its easy to say that Max should have kept it but realistically there is very little chance of the stewards allowing it to stand.
Ignore them, and even if he had pulled out a 6 second gap I think they would likely have given him a 10s+ penalty because not only is their authority being undermined but IMO it's also a bad precedent to set. By allowing it multilaterally you would be removing the advantage of track position from racing.. which is not something that sits well with me.

Maybe you feel that track position is still far too advantageous despite the recent efforts to reduce it and whilst I agree that it still probably is.. this is still not the way forward.

I do feel they messed up by not imposing track limits everywhere and all the time but even allowing a one time off track pass to equal things out.. that's just far too contrived for me and not right either.

It is the Stewards mistake but also Mercs brilliant interpretation of Masi's wording and Red Bull not being on the ball fast enough to quickly put a stop to it.. Althought to be fair to RB, stewarding the stewards shouldn't be their job.

It is what it is.. Masi just needs to up his game and make sure it doesnt happen again.

[Bagwan]

I wonder how you would expect them to have any sort of conversation that would result in anything other than a five to ten seconds penalty if they ignored the warning of the stewards. I don't understand your reasoning. It just comes across as if anything other than a Verstappen win was not good enough for you. He would get many, so hang on until the next race.
But l am sorry to say, the Redbull team did the right thing. Ignoring stewards warning is not going to endear them to the stewards.

Winning by going off track and ignoring the steward's warning in the process, would suggest that Redbull operates to different set of rules to the rest of the grid.

I'm sorry you don't understand , as I put it as clearly as I could .

Ignoring a warning gets you the penalty that they warned you would get .
I hope that's clearer .

At that time in the race , there would be no time to argue their point , but as it's a time penalty , you are allowed to take the penalty , and try to gain back the time by getting far enough ahead .
And , it is the only way to get to the stewards after the race to argue your side of the offense .

If you can show a reasonable defense , there is every chance you can win your case .
As we all know , stewards are people , and can sometimes get it wrong .
As I understand it , the only way to question a call is to take the penalty and argue the case .

Max and RB took the decision to give the place back , but , had they had a little more time to think about it , they may have chosen to stay ahead .
Instead , they chose to let Lewis back past very quickly , which , in the moment appeared to give Max more time to re-pass for the win .

As Mia mentioned , Lando commented that the pass was already made before he went off .
That's a completely new perspective on the situation coming from a guy with a Merc engine .

So , perhaps Max had a point , as I originally said .



" It just comes across as if anything other than a Verstappen win was not good enough for you."
I really don't know how to respond to you when you post lines like this .

[Nitrodaze]

If you haven't seen this, this is Mercedes briefing of the Bahrain GP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpebKhQLj4s

[Nitrodaze]

I'm sorry you don't understand , as I put it as clearly as I could .

Ignoring a warning gets you the penalty that they warned you would get .
I hope that's clearer .

At that time in the race , there would be no time to argue their point , but as it's a time penalty , you are allowed to take the penalty , and try to gain back the time by getting far enough ahead .
And , it is the only way to get to the stewards after the race to argue your side of the offense .

If you can show a reasonable defense , there is every chance you can win your case .
As we all know , stewards are people , and can sometimes get it wrong .
As I understand it , the only way to question a call is to take the penalty and argue the case .

Max and RB took the decision to give the place back , but , had they had a little more time to think about it , they may have chosen to stay ahead .
Instead , they chose to let Lewis back past very quickly , which , in the moment appeared to give Max more time to re-pass for the win .

As Mia mentioned , Lando commented that the pass was already made before he went off .
That's a completely new perspective on the situation coming from a guy with a Merc engine .

So , perhaps Max had a point , as I originally said .



" It just comes across as if anything other than a Verstappen win was not good enough for you."
I really don't know how to respond to you when you post lines like this .

It is an optimistic perspective, but l understood that. What l fail to understand is why you think the stewards got their warning wrong on this occasion. Or why you think Verstappen may have any chance at all of keeping the win; assuming he was able to stretch out a five seconds lead. That said, on to the next one. I am sure there would be many situations like this to discuss this season. It is very close, with the Mercedes slower than the Redbull.

This is the sort of season that shows why Hamilton is better than any of the other multiple world champions on the grid. As none of them has experienced this sort of season. Except for Alonso, of course, who came so close to that, fighting Vettel in the Redbull with a slightly slower Ferrari. The Ferrari on that occasion was nearly as fast as the Redbull, a closer gap than the Mercedes has at the moment, l think.

[Bagwan]

It is an optimistic perspective, but l understood that. What l fail to understand is why you think the stewards got their warning wrong on this occasion. Or why you think Verstappen may have any chance at all of keeping the win; assuming he was able to stretch out a five seconds lead. That said, on to the next one. I am sure there would be many situations like this to discuss this season. It is very close, with the Mercedes slower than the Redbull.

This is the sort of season that shows why Hamilton is better than any of the other multiple world champions on the grid. As none of them has experienced this sort of season. Except for Alonso, of course, who came so close to that, fighting Vettel in the Redbull with a slightly slower Ferrari. The Ferrari on that occasion was nearly as fast as the Redbull, a closer gap than the Mercedes has at the moment, l think.

Max had the chance to negate the penalty entirely if he had stayed ahead , and , if he couldn't take those 5 seconds back , he could have argued the point .
Had he lost the argument about the original warning he would only have lost those 5 seconds , which would have had him in second place anyway , so there was really no down side .
Had it not been so late , and so pressured at the time , a different decision might have been made as to the position swap .

It was the "gentleman racer" ethics that impressed me at the time , by the team that made the snap decision , and the driver who toed the line .
I am still impressed by what they did .
It felt a little "old school" in a way , and it wasn't what I expected from either Red Bull or from Max .


So , perhaps now you can see that , far from being upset , I am happy about the outcome , but I do think they could have argued their case and won .

Make no mistake , the fur will be flying all season if they are this close to each other .
Your Sir Lewis might get a little more respect if all the others are a little closer and he has to fight hard for it . I am sure you'd enjoy that .

[Nitrodaze]

Max had the chance to negate the penalty entirely if he had stayed ahead , and , if he couldn't take those 5 seconds back , he could have argued the point .
Had he lost the argument about the original warning he would only have lost those 5 seconds , which would have had him in second place anyway , so there was really no down side .
Had it not been so late , and so pressured at the time , a different decision might have been made as to the position swap .

It was the "gentleman racer" ethics that impressed me at the time , by the team that made the snap decision , and the driver who toed the line .
I am still impressed by what they did .
It felt a little "old school" in a way , and it wasn't what I expected from either Red Bull or from Max .


So , perhaps now you can see that , far from being upset , I am happy about the outcome , but I do think they could have argued their case and won .

Make no mistake , the fur will be flying all season if they are this close to each other .
Your Sir Lewis might get a little more respect if all the others are a little closer and he has to fight hard for it . I am sure you'd enjoy that .

Yes, l like Hamilton. But l like Verstappen also, you would be surprised to hear. When it comes to fairness, l try to be very objective. It certainly would not impress anybody if they ignored the stewards and got into an argument with them in the process. It certainly would not go down well if he won the race by doing so. You say these things as if Mercedes do not have any say in this. Or that the stewards would entertain any discussion after they have been brazenly ignored on tv across the globe.

Redbull encouraging their driver to ignore the stewards would have greatly undermined the office of the stewards. It would open the door for other teams to ignore them also in the future. And the racing would soon deteriorate into an uncontrolled activity with teams making the rules as they go on. Put it simply, it would have been a very bad thing if they had ignored the stewards and tried to force the win to stay. Verstappen tried this very thing a few seasons back and was kicked off the podium as a consequence. He did the same thing in 2017, passing Kimi illegally and got kicked off the podium by not very impressed stewards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rr1j7Z0ZTM

There should be no place for this sort of thing in F1. This is where it starts, and then it progressively gets out of hand.

[Mia 01]

No suprise here, Hamilton fans has there opinion straight. I´m no fan of Max but I like a fair fight and this year there can be one. The RB team will not give Lewis another win like this I think.

[Bagwan]

The stewards do get it wrong sometimes .
I'm not making that up .

[Mia 01]

A bit off topic I think. We are fans off different drivers in here but we can try to be polite.

[Mia 01]

A bit off topic I think. We are fans off different drivers in here but we can try to be polite.

To Blackie.

[Nitrodaze]

The stewards do get it wrong sometimes .
I'm not making that up .

If they did, l am sure Redbull would have taken issue with it and confronted the stewards after the race. On such an occasion, we would very strongly be on their side and chastising the stewards from our armchairs. But this is not the case on this occasion it seems.

Yes, they did get it wrong changing the rules on track limit halfway through the race. It is or it isn't! Masi is clearly still getting his head around his job.

Baggie you might like this video blog by Will Buxton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAm2zqe40oQ, he has some solid arguments but not necessarily feasible.

[Nitrodaze]

If they did, l am sure Redbull would have taken issue with it and confronted the stewards after the race. On such an occasion, we would very strongly be on their side and chastising the stewards from our armchairs. But this is not the case on this occasion it seems.

Yes, they did get it wrong changing the rules on track limit halfway through the race. It is or it isn't! Masi is clearly still getting his head around his job.

Baggie you might like this video blog by Will Buxton https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAm2zqe40oQ, he has some solid arguments but not necessarily feasible.

For a proper explanation of what really happened, check out Jonathan Palmer's analysis of the turn four incident https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zR74ijo7U

[Zico]

Regarding Redbull having the faster car.. I admit I haven't fully studied where their advantage lies but from snippets I've read/watched it seems that Merc may still have the overall power advantage? The Red Bull seems only faster on the mid and high speed corners but is slower on the straights?

I fear Mercs re-emergence and them running away with it again after such a promising opener.
Maybe some of you guys have studied their comparative_strengths weaknesses in more depth, interested in hearing your thoughts.

Going forward. Would you rather be in Mercs power advantage position (if it is..) or Red Bulls better sorted Aero?
Merc could get their rear instability sorted very quickly and be back in front in no time while Red Bulls brand new PU has unknown potential development gains.

[Nitrodaze]

Regarding Redbull having the faster car.. I admit I haven't fully studied where their advantage lies but from snippets I've read/watched it seems that Merc may still have the overall power advantage? The Red Bull seems only faster on the mid and high speed corners but is slower on the straights?

I fear Mercs re-emergence and them running away with it again after such a promising opener.
Maybe some of you guys have studied their comparative_strengths weaknesses in more depth, interested in hearing your thoughts.

Going forward. Would you rather be in Mercs power advantage position (if it is..) or Red Bulls better sorted Aero?
Merc could get their rear instability sorted very quickly and be back in front in no time while Red Bulls brand new PU has unknown potential development gains.

I think the Redbull is faster both on straights and the twisties. Mercedes have a more powerful engine but the regulation has prevented the car from putting that power out on to the tarmac due to the less efficient downforce at the rear of the car compared to Redbull. Redbull with lesser power has a higher downforce, hence more effective traction, hence better performance.

If Mercedes can find a way to increase the downforce at the rear of the car, they would instantly be the fastest car on the grid again. So it is a technical race against time for Mercedes to resolve the downforce deficiency they have before Redbull ick out a significant lead. Similarly, it is a race for Redbull to amass as many points as possible before Mercedes finds a solution, at least enough for it to be insurmountable for Mercedes.

This is why the win by Hamilton for Mercedes at Bahrain was so important. My guess is that the strategy by Mercedes would now be to steal as many wins as possible from Redbull when Redbull is not at the top of their game as they were at Bahrain. With Bottas tasked to neutralize Perez so that it is always a straight fight between Hamilton and Verstappen. But to have both cars on the podium when they are not fast enough to win. This would be their best strategy to buy as much time as possible for the engineers to resolve the problem without haemorrhaging too many points.

Redbull on the other hand, cannot afford to turn up at races not being a 100% prepared. As they have found that Mercedes is still very deadly even with a slower car. And they would be punished dearly for their inefficiencies. As they were in Bahrain. For Redbull, this is a battle of operational efficiency. that is exactly where Mercedes got them at the last race. The absence of Perez from the sharp end of the grid cost them dearly. As it gave Mercedes unchallenged strategic options that presented Hamilton the possibility to steal the win from Verstappen. The Redbull attitude at Bahrain appeared to be complacent on the fact that they knew they had the fastest car and under-estimating Hamilton and Mercedes in the process.

This is where both the second cars of Mercedes and Redbull must now perform at their very best. Bottas must defeat Perez and Hamilton must defeat Verstappen and the other way round from Redbull's perspective. Bottas and Perez cannot afford any sloppy weekend, as they would cost their teams dearly when they do as Redbull has found.

It is a proper fight between all aspect of both teams, from drivers to pitstops, to in-race strategies, to excellent car preparation and setup for the race. It is the whole operation that is competing between the two multiple constructors world championship teams of Mercedes and Redbull racing.

[Zico]

I think the Redbull is faster both on straights and the twisties. Mercedes have a more powerful engine but the regulation has prevented the car from putting that power out on to the tarmac due to the less efficient downforce at the rear of the car compared to Redbull. Redbull with lesser power has a higher downforce, hence more effective traction, hence better performance.

If Mercedes can find a way to increase the downforce at the rear of the car, they would instantly be the fastest car on the grid again. So it is a technical race against time for Mercedes to resolve the downforce deficiency they have before Redbull ick out a significant lead. Similarly, it is a race for Redbull to amass as many points as possible before Mercedes finds a solution, at least enough for it to be insurmountable for Mercedes.

This is why the win by Hamilton for Mercedes at Bahrain was so important. My guess is that the strategy by Mercedes would now be to steal as many wins as possible from Redbull when Redbull is not at the top of their game as they were at Bahrain. With Bottas tasked to neutralize Perez so that it is always a straight fight between Hamilton and Verstappen. But to have both cars on the podium when they are not fast enough to win. This would be their best strategy to buy as much time as possible for the engineers to resolve the problem without haemorrhaging too many points.

Redbull on the other hand, cannot afford to turn up at races not being a 100% prepared. As they have found that Mercedes is still very deadly even with a slower car. And they would be punished dearly for their inefficiencies. As they were in Bahrain. For Redbull, this is a battle of operational efficiency. that is exactly where Mercedes got them at the last race. The absence of Perez from the sharp end of the grid cost them dearly. As it gave Mercedes unchallenged strategic options that presented Hamilton the possibility to steal the win from Verstappen. The Redbull attitude at Bahrain appeared to be complacent on the fact that they knew they had the fastest car and under-estimating Hamilton and Mercedes in the process.

This is where both the second cars of Mercedes and Redbull must now perform at their very best. Bottas must defeat Perez and Hamilton must defeat Verstappen and the other way round from Redbull's perspective. Bottas and Perez cannot afford any sloppy weekend, as they would cost their teams dearly when they do as Redbull has found.

It is a proper fight between all aspect of both teams, from drivers to pitstops, to in-race strategies, to excellent car preparation and setup for the race. It is the whole operation that is competing between the two multiple constructors world championship teams of Mercedes and Redbull racing.

Yep, I think you are probably right, that is pretty much my take on it too. I think the Honda unit must be a lot closer than it has been though.
Trying to get my head around who this might affect most in race pace and whether that may make track position more important for the Red Bull.. but it's not an easy one to determine.

I just hope Red Bull have some real engine development potential to keep things close as Merc will most likely solve their rear end issue out fairly quickly.
I'm just praying for a competitive season for a change.. and hopefully one that goes down to the wire.

[F1nKS]

It is too bad we have to wait 3 weeks to the next race. That gives Mercedes a lot of time to brings some fixes to their car.