07 redbull citroen [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

Barry_

13th December 2006, 23:28

ohh...read in a post that it went...n e who..if n e one gets pics of it..post here

Meeke looks set to drive a Xsara sponsored by Red Bull and run by Kronos.
It was reported that, in a test on a 21 mile Stage in Finland this summer, he was only 0.3 seconds slower than Loeb in a Xsara.
Source: Motorsport News.
Hope he gets his chance, he will fly. He might just ignite that fire that seemed to burn out when Mcrae left.

GigiGalliNo1

14th December 2006, 04:33

anyone gonna complain about Barry_'s writing? I'm not but just picked it up since Daniel complains about mine! haha

306 Cosworth

14th December 2006, 15:38

Are you sure that quote is right, saying Meeke tested on a 21 Miles stage and was only 0.3 seconds slower than Loeb. Don't believe that somehow :s

MikeD

14th December 2006, 15:53

me neither. And I don't see why Red Bull are suddenly going to support Kris Meeke, when they have announced they will only support Aigner.

GunsofNavarone

14th December 2006, 15:56

me neither. And I don't see why Red Bull are suddenly going to support Kris Meeke, when they have announced they will only support Aigner.

I didn't pick up that they were only going to support Aigner, only that Andreas was more of a priority than Harri.

Simmi

14th December 2006, 15:57

Like people have been saying I hope Red Bull properly throw their weight behind rallying and their drivers Meeke and Aigner and let Kronos do the rest. Without a doubt that would be a team to watch but I can't see it happening somehow.

14th December 2006, 15:59

Red Bull are a personal sponsor of Meeke, although not in the way they have supported Aigner.

Aigner and Meeke would make a nice junior Citroen team driving Xsara's for Kronos, it's what Red Bull should be doing and I hope it works out.

StevoEvo

14th December 2006, 16:09

Are you sure that quote is right, saying Meeke tested on a 21 Miles stage and was only 0.3 seconds slower than Loeb. Don't believe that somehow :s
0.3 secs is what I read in MS News too, I also find it hard to believe!!
But on last years RGB, he was setting good times in an older spec Subaru, so who knows.
Surely they would'nt publish it, if it was all false info?
As for Red Bull supporting Meeke story, I really think this could happen, as they supported him during his C2 JWRC days at Kronos, and also Citroen Sport are keen to retain Meeke as a test driver, due to his good input and for his technical background skills, before he became a driver...

DonJippo

14th December 2006, 16:29

0.3 secs is what I read in MS News too, I also find it hard to believe!!

If this is the supposed 21mil test stage in Finland from last summer I can guarantee it's not correct, no test stages are that long.

GunsofNavarone

14th December 2006, 16:30

If this is the supposed 21mil test stage in Finland from last summer I can guarantee it's not correct, no test stages are that long.

I suppose 21k's would be too long as well?

Tomi

14th December 2006, 16:42

I suppose 21k's would be too long as well?
Offcourse, you get nothing done driving that long stages, takes too much time, i belive the whole story is crap.

GunsofNavarone

14th December 2006, 17:11

Offcourse, you get nothing done driving that long stages, takes too much time, i belive the whole story is crap.

I have never had the pleasure of watching a test session in Finland before, but I guess it's pretty universal.

StevoEvo

14th December 2006, 18:24

If this is the supposed 21mil test stage in Finland from last summer I can guarantee it's not correct, no test stages are that long.

I don't know anything about Finland testing, so maybe your correct and the article is wrong... no worries :)
I assumed it was like an endurance test stage being 21k long lol... unless it was 10k one way and 10k back lol
Who knows, Does MS News know even????

Magnus

14th December 2006, 18:29

Maybe he was 0,3 secs slower/km?

L5->R5/CR

14th December 2006, 19:15

I don't know anything about Finland testing, so maybe your correct and the article is wrong... no worries :)
I assumed it was like an endurance test stage being 21k long lol... unless it was 10k one way and 10k back lol
Who knows, Does MS News know even????

Maybe it was a driver try out test after the dvelopment and set up testing had been complete?

Naw....

Couldn't be that.

Teams would never do something like that.....

Tomi

14th December 2006, 19:18

Maybe it was a driver try out test after the dvelopment and set up testing had been complete?

Naw....

Couldn't be that.

Teams would never do something like that.....

the whole thing sounds more like an norwegian rumour.

T60

14th December 2006, 19:34

Are you sure that quote is right, saying Meeke tested on a 21 Miles stage and was only 0.3 seconds slower than Loeb. Don't believe that somehow :s
The quote is right. checked it twice now. I thought about it a bit too and I can believe it.

Tom206wrc

14th December 2006, 19:35

When is there an official announcement from Redbull and/or Kronos for the 2007 program ?? :confused:

Mad cat jnr

14th December 2006, 19:41

It says in MN news this week that Meeke is on the verge of securing the funding to get a drive for Kronos, and it also mentions Reb Bull, so who knows?

Joe

GunsofNavarone

14th December 2006, 20:24

It says in MN news this week that Meeke is on the verge of securing the funding to get a drive for Kronos, and it also mentions Reb Bull, so who knows?

Joe

Kronos ran the livery of Gauloises almost all season long, I doubt they would have a problem slapping the Red Bull livery on there (which is most awesome IMHO). We don't have too much time left though before we'll have the line-up for next season figured out so we can stop acting like a bunch of old wives gossiping about the neighbors (neighbors in this case being rally teams). Still , it's always fun to speculate.

Tom206wrc

15th December 2006, 10:22

According to la Dernière Heure(belgian newspaper) there won't be any Kronos Xsara on Monte-Carlo 2007 at all !!! :eek:

So it was pure rubbish the signature with Redbull ?? :confused:

Brother John

15th December 2006, 11:09

According to la Dernière Heure(belgian newspaper) there won't be any Kronos Xsara on Monte-Carlo 2007 at all !!! :eek:

So it was pure rubbish the signature with Redbull ?? :confused:

As I said already som weeks before, much forum members will be disappointed after all rumours from last weeks! Maybe no Kronos and no Bozian in wrc 2007! No Markko Märtin, no Aigner, Duval, Meeke, Pons, Stohl....and more.
Again a failure of F.I.A. ? They have a 5 year plan to change wrc!!!!
IMO that´s to late. The drivers and teams choose now themselves for a cheaper solution, they don´t wait 5 years.
IRC is the future. :s mokin: WRC is now certainly busy with "the beginning of the end"

Tom206wrc

15th December 2006, 11:16

Well, I feel next year I'll be far more interested in IRC than in WRC :rolleyes:

1LM1

15th December 2006, 11:26

Tom206wrc

15th December 2006, 11:36

I didn't say WRC was dead !! :p :

But as a Peugeot fan, I'll be delighted with all that 207 in IRC(if rumours become real news) :D

animrallye

15th December 2006, 11:38

Again a failure of F.I.A. ? They have a 5 year plan to change wrc!!!!
IMO that´s to late. The drivers and teams choose now themselves for a cheaper solution, they don´t wait 5 years.
IRC is the future. :s mokin: WRC is now certainly busy with "the beginning of the end"
IMHO, your analyse is the good one...
Manufs and drivers are waiting a lot from IRC, cheaper, more spectacular, and with a better TV coverage than WRC.
Let's look how many manufs are alraedy or look at IRC : Fiat, Toyota, Peugeot, Skoda...
As you said : IRC IS the future.

1LM1

15th December 2006, 11:45

IMHO, your analyse is the good one...
Manufs and drivers are waiting a lot from IRC, cheaper, more spectacular, and with a better TV coverage than WRC.
Let's look how many manufs are alraedy or look at IRC : Fiat, Toyota, Peugeot, Skoda...
As you said : IRC IS the future.

I hope not. But I am afraid. That's why I hope there will not be a separate IRC forum, that's why I am sad about Eurosport decision, that's why I hope Suzuki won't scrap its wrc car project.

Brother John

15th December 2006, 11:51

Not too fast! ;)
We still have got some good news about WRC!

Ok Eurosport decision (why they create and broadcast a new championship instead of backing the existent one btw? :down :) but Eurosport is not the only channel in the world!

And what about Mitsubishi decision to come back in WRC? What about the news about Henning? What about Suzuki arriving in WRC (a key point I think)? What about the come back of Citroën? what about Ford and Subaru ?

WRC is not in dead. The best cars, the best drivers and the most spectacular cars are in WRC. So not too fast guys!!

1- Eurosport broadcast a new championship becouse the existent one is too expensive

2- Mitsubishi com back with old cars and the sonsors pay now for development

3- Suzuki and all the others, Ford, Subaru, Citroën...... can readjust their cars in a short time

3- Now wrc is not dead, but if they not change fast and wrc keep to be this way expensive! Then it will be hard to survive!

1LM1

15th December 2006, 11:55

The problem is that it's a vicious circle. WRC is not too expensive for Eurosport. If they improved the broadcast (as they intend to do with IRC), audience would be higher. My philosophy is that motorsport has to be expensive for manufacturers. I think that at the end the ROI would be better for them.

Brother John

15th December 2006, 12:04

My philosophy is that motorsport has to be expensive for manufacturers. I think that at the end the ROI would be better for them.

Has to be expensive? you come from another world?
Why there is so much people to lose their job in the car industry?Shareholders are only intrested in money, not in people and certainly not in rally fans! :dozey:

JAM

15th December 2006, 12:14

This is an old discussion. What do we want in rallying? We want to see interesting cars giving good spectacle. To reache these thing we don't need electronics neither some other expensive things. I don't care if the care has active difs or not or if the engine is a piece of technology, i want to see a car with many HPs sliding and listen the bang bang from the exaust.

That is the point, manufecturers are always thinking in a way of having more sohisticated cars without looking at the costs. After the car start to race they start to be worried about the costs... people from manufacturers have some complicated minds and FIA follow him.

Look at this example, S2000 see the light, and they were most perfomants than Grp N. Wich could be the way to put things more equal? Put a restritor in group N with 34mm instead the 32mm, giving them more 30/40 HP. But what FIA did? They simple allowed homologations of new brakes and something more in suspensions. A new restrictor would cost nothing, but the new parts homologated costs around 20.000 Euros. It's simple, isn't? We could had Grp N faster with no spend of money, but FIA decided to put them faster with significant investment.

Technology will kill motorsport, because we'll reach the point that pay all that stuff will be impossible to afford.

Obs: When someone says that for manufacturers things should be expensive, that person is showing that don't live in our world.

1LM1

15th December 2006, 12:19

Has to be expensive? you come from another world?
Why there is so much people to lose their job in the car industry?Shareholders are only intrested in money, not in people and certainly not in rally fans! :dozey:

It's not because a company cut off staff that they have to spend less money in their projects. It's just the opposite. If they do something, they have to do it right.
If a company spend money in a project, project will be a success and the company will be stronger in the end.

Regarding motorsport, it's the same. Motorport doesn't have inevitably to be cheap to attract manufacturers.
You think in terms of spending when I speak in terms of ROI (return on investment). Only ROI counts because if ROI is good, company is strong and company can play its part in the society (and hire people in the end).
(I encourage you to read the two excellent books written by Jack Welch btw).

JAM

15th December 2006, 12:23

You think in terms of spending when I speak in terms of ROI (return on investment). Only ROI counts because if ROI is good, company is strong and company can play its part in the society (and hire people at the end).
(I encourage you to read the two excellent books written by Jack Welch btw).

ROI is a very interesting thing. More you spend more you have to reach to cover the investment. Did you never tought that sometimes the investments are impossible to cover because the return is low even with a presence of sucess? That is the problem, You don't have idea of waht WRC is or the audeineces that WRC has or could have.

The lack of manufacturers isn't because the high investments that are needed to build a WRC project?

1LM1

15th December 2006, 12:30

ROI is a very interesting thing. More you spend more you have to reach to cover the investment. Did you never tought that sometimes the investments are impossible to cover because the return is low even with a presence of sucess? That is the problem, You don't have idea of waht WRC is or the audeineces that WRC has or could have.

The lack of manufacturers isn't because the high investments that are needed to build a WRC project?

I don't know how ROI is in motorport but nobody knows. That I want to say is that maybe ROI is good when motorsport is expensive because the win become more prestigious in the mind of customers in the end.
People is always thinking in terms of spending and I think it's bad and it's killing motorsport.

DonJippo

15th December 2006, 12:48

But what FIA did? They simple allowed homologations of new brakes and something more in suspensions. A new restrictor would cost nothing, but the new parts homologated costs around 20.000 Euros. It's simple, isn't? We could had Grp N faster with no spend of money, but FIA decided to put them faster with significant investment.

I've always thought it is a manufacturere to ask new parts to be homogolated not FIA to propose or tell it's wrong part... :rolleyes:

animrallye

15th December 2006, 12:49

I hope not. But I am afraid. That's why I hope there will not be a separate IRC forum, that's why I am sad about Eurosport decision, that's why I hope Suzuki won't scrap its wrc car project.
IRC is managed by SWR Events Ltd. and it's a part of Eurosport.
So Eurosport didn't change nothing, they will cover their events !
With the benediction of FIA !

The 2007 Intercontinental Rally Challenge (IRC), a newly created international series authorised by the FIA, will start in March 2007 and will mark the birth of a new rally generation.

The decision of SRW Events Ltd., the promoter and organiser of this competition, to launch the IRC is emblematic of a new approach to enhancing the value and excitement of the rally sport for TV viewers and will offer manufacturers, drivers and organisers a large-scale project. One of the IRC's main objectives will be to create a strong proximity with the public, a concept that will be developed at all levels of the IRC especially with the innovative TV production.

1LM1

15th December 2006, 12:54

IRC is managed by SWR Events Ltd. and it's a part of Eurosport.
So Eurosport didn't change nothing, they will cover their events !
With the benediction of FIA !

ok thanks for the explanation! :up:

15th December 2006, 13:05

Aigner will do PWRC next year, so Red Bull Kronos looks unlikely. Shame.
http://www.rallye-info.com/article.asp?sid=0&stid=5820

JAM

15th December 2006, 13:09

Aigner will do PWRC next year, so Red Bull Kronos looks unlikely. Shame.
http://www.rallye-info.com/article.asp?sid=0&stid=5820

I think that this prove that going to WRC very young and unexperienced in a WRC car is not a good step. Now Aigner will finally learn the WRC. Did Wilosn do the same? Maybe with a Fiesta S1600.... It looks like the WRc start to be clean from the baby drivers..

JAM

15th December 2006, 13:11

I've always thought it is a manufacturere to ask new parts to be homogolated not FIA to propose or tell it's wrong part... :rolleyes:

I don't know from how started the ideia, but for instance the brakes were bigger and not allowed until then. FIA had to change regulations....

MikeD

15th December 2006, 13:12

According to la Dernière Heure(belgian newspaper) there won't be any Kronos Xsara on Monte-Carlo 2007 at all !!! :eek:

So it was pure rubbish the signature with Redbull ?? :confused:

This was a little bit expected. I have said all along that there is not enough sponsor money for both Bozian and Kronos to run a total of 4 cars. Bozian confirmed 2 days ago that they definitely will be an M2 team in 2007, which indicates that they have secured Stohl and his huge OMV sponsorship. Aigner and his Red Bull money is still up in the air, but I have a feeling that he will either end up alongside Stohl or perhaps in a Ford (non M2).

An now Pons and his possible sponsors are out of the running, things are not looking good for Kronos.

JAM

15th December 2006, 13:16

I don't know how ROI is in motorport but nobody knows. That I want to say is that maybe ROI is good when motorsport is expensive because the win become more prestigious in the mind of customers in the end.
People is always thinking in terms of spending and I think it's bad and it's killing motorsport.

That history of being prestigious is a crap. Sometimes the people that work with economy had some strange minds. The important is to win, and the less moneys spent better. If you can be champion with 3000million Euros, why the hell you should spent 5000millions to have the same result? It's really dificult to understand.

Tom206wrc

15th December 2006, 13:18

DonJippo

15th December 2006, 13:25

Manufs and drivers are waiting a lot from IRC, cheaper, more spectacular, and with a better TV coverage than WRC.

Running cost of a S2000 car is more expensive than few years old WRC car. And also do not be fooled by Eurosport press release where they are first listing all their regional set ups: Eurosport 1 & 2, Eurosport Asia, Eurosport America and what ever there is AND then they say that there will be TV-coverage worth of 8 hours per event on Eurosport corporate level.

Brother John

15th December 2006, 13:25

I agree with this mail from RonSkoda on http://www.rallye-info.com/forum.asp?sid=0&boardid=1&action=thread&threadid=6280&new=34&page=3

Buzz Lightyear

15th December 2006, 13:43

Tom206wrc

15th December 2006, 13:46

PLuto

15th December 2006, 14:08

Running cost of a S2000 car is more expensive than few years old WRC car. And also do not be fooled by Eurosport press release where they are first listing all their regional set ups: Eurosport 1 & 2, Eurosport Asia, Eurosport America and what ever there is AND then they say that there will be TV-coverage worth of 8 hours per event on Eurosport corporate level.

Running costs of S2000 arent so dramaticly higher than older WRC cars. And cost of older WRC cars are lower because age of these cars.

And believe Eurosport. I have seen proposal time list for next year and there is much better TV coverage than WRC. And in prime time!

StevoEvo

15th December 2006, 14:14

According to la Dernière Heure(belgian newspaper) there won't be any Kronos Xsara on Monte-Carlo 2007 at all !!! :eek:

So it was pure rubbish the signature with Redbull ?? :confused:

Apparently Marc van Dalen has said "if no deal was done by Wednesday, just gone,then they will miss the entry deadline and unfortunately will have to miss the Monte" but they are still chasing 2 sponsored drivers for the rest of the season.. They have a little more time now to get El Meeke and another driver Duval??? to sort Red Bull out, and get Kronos Xsara's running again...
Let's all hope ;)

StevoEvo

15th December 2006, 14:16

So who will drive for Bozian with a big sponsor in this case(if OMV/Stohl are back to Kronos) :confused:

I now see only one possibility - but exciting possibility :p : - Gigi Galli with Pirelli !!! :bounce:

Heard another rumour, lol yes I know rumours are running wild,, but we may see a Pirelli backed Mitsubishi for Mr Galli.... Now that will look good :eek:

Jaanus

15th December 2006, 14:45

Apparently Marc van Dalen has said "if no deal was done by Wednesday, just gone,then they will miss the entry deadline and unfortunately will have to miss the Monte" but they are still chasing 2 sponsored drivers for the rest of the season.. They have a little more time now to get El Meeke and another driver Duval??? to sort Red Bull out, and get Kronos Xsara's running again...
Let's all hope ;)

The registreation for the Manufacturer Team(former M2) ends today. If Kronos has no deal by today they can not register as a Manufacturer Team.

MikeD

15th December 2006, 14:52

But another rumour from belgian newspaper today says Stohl and OMV are back to Kronos !!! :eek:

Who's right then ??? :s

And if Stohl goes to Kronos I can't see Kronos not running in Monte-Carlo !! :mark:

When is Bozian officially announce its presence as M2 team ?? :confused:

EDIT: my message was following MikeD message...

http://www.crash.net/news_view~t~Bozian--Mission-accomplished-for-OMV-Peugeot-~cid~4~id~141313.htm

At the end of this link Bozian confirms their 2007 M2 entry.

And now (at Crash.net) Aigner and Red Bull confirms that Aigner will run most events in 2007 in the PWRC (in a Mitsu) and only some selected WRC events. The car in the WRC events is still unnamed.

I simply don't understand why Red Bull will move their sponsorship down to PWRC, when they so easily could get a competetive WRC seat for Aigner????

JAM

15th December 2006, 14:55

I simply don't understand why Red Bull will move their sponsorship down to PWRC, when they so easily could get a competetive WRC seat for Aigner????

The seat could be competitive, but the driver maybe not.... If they would made a support plan in rallying like they have to put drivers in F1, then a lot of young ones could have a chance. But they prefer to wast money on Aigner.

Tom206wrc

15th December 2006, 14:58

Thanks for the link Mike ;)

But when was made this interview of Bozian boss ??? :confused:

StevoEvo

15th December 2006, 15:08

Thanks for the link Mike ;)

But when was made this interview of Bozian boss ??? :confused:

WORLD RALLY NewsThursday, 14th December 2006

Tom206wrc

15th December 2006, 15:12

It was published on 14th december, but was it really the date of the interview itself ?? :confused:

Sometimes a site can publish lately an article that was made long time before :mark:

GigiGalliNo1

15th December 2006, 15:15

Heard another rumour, lol yes I know rumours are running wild,, but we may see a Pirelli backed Mitsubishi for Mr Galli.... Now that will look good :eek:

You've said this twice already! Where is the official or perhaps a small bit of an official release?!

15th December 2006, 20:31

I agree with this mail from RonSkoda on http://www.rallye-info.com/forum.asp?sid=0&boardid=1&action=thread&threadid=6280&new=34&page=3

Oooo, that's me, thank you :)

Back to the point though; Panizzi is already confirmed to the IRC I believe, Tuohino and Sola look set to do some events too, maybe A McRae too so it is already attracting former WRC drivers who are not finding room in the WRC, or enough money to fund a drive there.