2020 Russian GP - Sochi

[Nitrodaze]

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/sochi-international-street-.jpg

https://phototass4.cdnvideo.ru/width/1020_b9261fa1/tass/m2/en/uploads/i/20170501/1167554.jpg

We head to Sochi on the back of a recovery weekend for Mercedes at Mugello. A race that was a nightmare for Verstapenn as he saw himself slip back to 3rd, as Bottas recovered the 2nd spot in the driver's championship. The gap between Hamilton and his direct competition has stretched out to over fifty points, with Verstapenn looking increasingly out of contention for the driver's title.

This is a Mercedes track and is typically a Bottas track. This is the best chance for Bottas to recover lost points from Hamilton and possibly re-ignite his driver championship chances. This is a race that Verstapenn would dearly like to win and the track may suit this season's Redbull car. It may be a close race between Mercedes and Redbull. This race also presents Albon with a great chance to seize 4th place in the driver's championship.

The Renaults may go very well here as well. Hence it may present Mclaren an opportunity to consolidate 3rd in the constructors championship.

F1 CEO Chase Carey departs F1 from next season. Rumours suggest former Ferrari team boss Stefano Domenicalli shall replace him. I think we should pay tribute to Mr Carey for the brilliant work he has done, especially in this very difficult season, navigating the sport through COVID-19 and somehow managing to stitch together a championship. I think he has made an important mark on the present and future of the sport.

This news raises the concern for future of F1. Concord agreement has been signed by all teams but the regime of the new regulations seem to not have the full support of the entire grid. Concern of "quick sand" effect occurring at the start of the new regulation with some teams departing or covertly withdrawing by selling out to new owners is looking highly likely.

We have seen this with Williams, Mercedes may possibly do the same.

[The Black Knight]

The most boring track on the calendar. Even more boring than Austria. At least there’ll be fans.

[Nitrodaze]

The most boring track on the calendar. Even more boring than Austria. At least there’ll be fans.

That is worrying considering most countries are heading back into lockdown. Though Boris seem to have cold feet on the matter, technically we should be back in lockdown considering the spike in infections going on in the UK and some EU countries. The covert attempt at herding immunity is beginning to look scary and may backfire if the rate of deaths catches up to the rate of infections.

[The Black Knight]

That is worrying considering most countries are heading back into lockdown. Though Boris seem to have cold feet on the matter, technically we should be back in lockdown considering the spike in infections going on in the UK and some EU countries. The covert attempt at herding immunity is beginning to look scary and may backfire if the rate of deaths catches up to the rate of infections.

I’m not going to go into this, suffice to say the lockdown has been a failure, it hasn’t worked. We have immune systems that have protected us for eons without locking ourselves down, we should let ourselves build up immunity. Anyway I don’t live in the UK and am pretty isolated so chances of me catching it are pretty slim. The world needs to move on at some point, we cannot continue to stay locked up forever, life is too short.

Onto Stefano Domenicalli, I cannot see how his appointment is anything other than a massive conflict of interest. He has too much history with Ferrari to be running the sport - Ferrari gets enough special treatment as it is.

[Nitrodaze]

I’m not going to go into this, suffice to say the lockdown has been a failure, it hasn’t worked. We have immune systems that have protected us for eons without locking ourselves down, we should let ourselves build up immunity. Anyway I don’t live in the UK and am pretty isolated so chances of me catching it are pretty slim. The world needs to move on at some point, we cannot continue to stay locked up forever, life is too short.

Onto Stefano Domenicalli, I cannot see how his appointment is anything other than a massive conflict of interest. He has too much history with Ferrari to be running the sport - Ferrari gets enough special treatment as it is.

LOL, you are still in lockdown so l don't understand your point buddy :-)

Yes Domenicalii's appointment would not be popular in some quarters, considering the FIA is run by another previous Ferrari team boss. That said, l wonder if there is any other candidate of Domenicali's stature and pedigree out there to do the job. I would probably say Ron Dennis would be a better alternative. At least, that would offer a fairer appearance to the F1 setup.

[The Black Knight]

LOL, you are still in lockdown so l don't understand your point buddy :-)

Yes Domenicalii's appointment would not be popular in some quarters, considering the FIA is run by another previous Ferrari team boss. That said, l wonder if there is any other candidate of Domenicali's stature and pedigree out there to do the job. I would probably say Ron Dennis would be a better alternative.

No I’m not in lockdown just that my house is remote and it is also my office so my life is no different now to what it was last year except that I’m not traveling as much.

Ron Dennis would be an ideal candidate imo. He is out of the game a while and I would say has very thin loyalties to a McLaren team that booted him out after so many years. Would be nice to see some Ron Speak back.

[N. Jones]

The most boring track on the calendar. Even more boring than Austria. At least there’ll be fans.

Grr, I like Austria. Sochi is OK.

[zako85]

Despite claims that the venue was designed with racing in mind, the race track has way too many 90 degree corners typical of mediocre street circuits.

[The Black Knight]

Grr, I like Austria. Sochi is OK.

I have never been a lover of Austria. It’s too short, not intricate and I just find it dull.

[Nitrodaze]

Redbull is looking weak at the moment. They may have Renault, Mclaren and Racing Point in their hair during qualifying. The fight for 3rd in the constructors championship has heated up this weekend. It would seem Renault has found some mojo to take the fight to Mclaren. Racing Point is not quite on the top of their game this weekend it appears, They may be a different proposition during quali.

[truefan72]

It seems even more ridiculous that Perez is being pushed out of Racing Point for Vettel. The guy is miles better at this point to his teammate and even more so to Vettel at this point. Smh. If I were him I would join Williams instead of Sauber or Haas. Now that Williams have secured their future no more need for that pay driver

[denkimi]

Bottas once again too slow to hold verstappen off in a car that is half a second faster.

[Jag_Warrior]

It seems even more ridiculous that Perez is being pushed out of Racing Point for Vettel. The guy is miles better at this point to his teammate and even more so to Vettel at this point. Smh. If I were him I would join Williams instead of Sauber or Haas. Now that Williams have secured their future no more need for that pay driver

It's as if an alien has occupied Vettel's body. I've never been a big Vettel fan, but to see someone, especially a former WDC, collapse and implode like this is truly disturbing.

I agree with you about Perez. Williams, with this new ownership and investment (and having Merc PUs), might be the better bet.

[Nitrodaze]

Verstapenn pulled out a very special lap to get between the Mercedes. He is determined to at least snatch 2nd in the drivers championship from Bottas.

Not sure what happened to bottas when it really mattered. He seemed to have the speed to take poll this weekend but something happened that kept him from his best. I am sure he has the speed to put it ahead of Verstapenn easily, the question is what actually happened to Bottas?

With the Williams qualifying ahead of the two Ferrari, and their future sorted out, a Wiiliams seat is now very desirable. Hence, it would make sense for both Williams and Perez to come together for 2021 or 2022. He would bring a wealth of experience to the team which Williams and Russell would greatly benefit from.

From Russels perspective, he would have a great beanchmark to measure himself against. If he can beat Perez consistently, it would be a clear indication of his true capability. I suspect he would find racing against Perez a harder proposition than he has experienced in F1 so far.

And Williams would have a true indication of the capability of their car. So for me it is a no brainer.

[Nitrodaze]

It is worth noticing that when Redbull concentrate all of their efforts on Verstapenn, he performs exceptionally well but that driver in the second seat suffers as a consequence. So Verstapenn is 2nd and Albon is back where he typically was, in the thick of the midfield.

When they try to split their efforts to help the second car, Verstapenn suffers as a consequence as we have noticed in the last three races.

Maybe Redbull should run only one car for the championship.

[denkimi]

It is worth noticing that when Redbull concentrate all of their efforts on Verstapenn, he performs exceptionally well but that driver in the second seat suffers as a consequence. So Verstapenn is 2nd and Albon is back where he typically was, in the thick of the midfield.

When they try to split their efforts to help the second car, Verstapenn suffers as a consequence as we have noticed in the last three races.

Maybe Redbull should run only one car for the championship.
I would say that if verstappen has problems, it makes albon look good because we can't compare performance anymore.

Albon is just not up to the task, he drives a car way above his league.

[Nitrodaze]

We have arseholes as stewards for this race. How fair is it to give a double penalty for the same infraction. Salo is a dickhead. WTF, that was a very severe punishments. How they have messed with this race.

[truefan72]

Yup, race stewards doing everything they can to ruin Hamilton’s race. He gets a 10s discretionary penalty for nothing but Sainz guns it through the bollards and causes a major incident...nothing. Perez doesn’t go through the bollards...nothing. Leclerc shunts stroll...nothing. Ridiculous

[Nitrodaze]

Yup, race stewards doing everything they can to ruin Hamilton’s race. He gets a 10s discretionary penalty for nothing but Sainz guns it through the bollards and causes a major incident...nothing. Perez doesn’t go through the bollards...nothing. Leclerc shunts stroll...nothing. Ridiculous

How Salo is making it possible for his countryman Bottas to win the race. That was a very dodgy penalty by any standards. Mika Salo has lost my respect for him from this point on. That was a very very unfair penalty.

[Nitrodaze]

Apparently there were two pit starts that occured. But for a discretionary penalty, they have thrown the kitchen sink at him.

[truefan72]

Apparently there were two pit starts that occured. But for a discretionary penalty, they have thrown the kitchen sink at him. they sure did unnecessarily. And it’s frustrating to hear the skyF1 crew so giddy about it as it’s going to “spice up the race” smh
The whole thing is absurd and unprecedented

[Nitrodaze]

they sure did unnecessarily. And it’s frustrating to hear the skyF1 crew so giddy about it as it’s going to “spice up the race” smh
The whole thing is absurd and unprecedented

Well they have effectively messed with the battle at the sharp end as they have clearly removed him from the fight at the sharp end. We could have still enjoyed a close battle at the sharp end with a 5 sec penalty and a reprimand.

[Nitrodaze]

What a boring race?

[truefan72]

Lol. Look at Bottas celebrating like he actually did something in this race. As if the stewards didn’t gift him the race. “Never give up” he says. Lmao.

[Nitrodaze]

Lol. Look at Bottas celebrating like he actually did something in this race. As if the stewards didn’t gift him the race. “Never give up” he says. Lmao.

I can't blame Bottas, but he was gifted this race by Mika Salo.

[truefan72]

I can't blame Bottas, but he was gifted this race by Mika Salo. yup

[Nitrodaze]

The whole thing reeks of stinking fish. They have not only messed with the race, they are messing with the championship. Fofr the sake of a harmless practise race start in a safeplace l might bad, this bad batch of race stewards have taken Hamilton to with 2 points of a race ban within one race. This is an abuse of the system.

[Nitrodaze]

The whole thing reeks of stinking fish. They have not only messed with this race, they are messing with the championship battle for the driver title for the 2020 season. For the sake of a harmless practise race start in a safeplace l might add, this bad batch of race stewards have taken Hamilton to within 2 points of a race ban within one race weekend. This is an abuse of the system.

[truefan72]

The whole thing reeks of stinking fish. They have not only messed with this race, they are messing with the championship battle for the driver title for the 2020 season. For the sake of a harmless practise race start in a safeplace l might add, this bad batch of race stewards have taken Hamilton to within 2 points of a race ban within one race weekend. This is an abuse of the system.
Update: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-stewards-retract-penalty-points-handed-to-hamilton-for-practice.2MFGbhuF10yL2mvnYWl1B9.html

they retracted the penalty points. But the damage was done. Turns out his team instructed him to perform the practice start at that spot: still it should have been a warning at the very most. The whole thing is ridiculous and they are doing their best to try and stop him. Still find the exuberance from Bottas funny. Talking about silencing his critics. 🤷🏻

[The Black Knight]

I can't blame Bottas, but he was gifted this race by Mika Salo.

A Finnish Stewart gifting a Finnish driver? Who’d have thunk? They have rescinded Hamilton’s penalty points. I felt this was OTT imo and was a sure sign National favouritism was at work. 5 second penalty was enough for what was two very minor infringements
Oh, and Mika Salo should never be allowed in The Stewards room again since he clearly cannot leave his biases behind him.

[Zico]

As Toto said... never before has a pre-race infringement been issued by a racetime penalty. Thats quite a telling statement.

I guess they dont want the WDC to be over half way through the season... or maybe its a favour to Bottas from Salo but with how everything has been handled in the last year and Dominecales apointment, I'm really struggling with taking F1 even half seriously.

Meanwhile... LeClerc hitting Stroll and ending his race, isnt even investigated?

Liberty Media.. this isnt WWE and April the 1st was months ago. What an embarrassment.

[The Black Knight]

As Toto said... never before has a pre-race infringement been issued by a racetime penalty. Thats quite a telling statement.

I guess they dont want the WDC to be over half way through the season... or maybe its a favour to Bottas from Salo but with how everything has been handled in the last year and Dominecales apointment, I'm really struggling with taking F1 even half seriously.

Meanwhile... LeClerc hitting Stroll and ending his race, isnt even investigated?

Liberty Media.. this isnt WWE and April the 1st was months ago. What an embarrassment.

Agree 100%

[denkimi]

Oh quit whining you bunch of fanboys.
Lewis broke the rules, so he got a penalty. He broke them again, so he got another penalty.

There is only one person to blame, and that's the guy who told him on the radio to break those rules.

[Storm]

Lol. Look at Bottas celebrating like he actually did something in this race. As if the stewards didn’t gift him the race. “Never give up” he says. Lmao.

0.6sec behind LH and also behind Max in qually tells you all you need to know about Bottas

and no, I am not a Lewis fanboy whatsoever and would like nothing more than see different winners weekly but not like these joke penalties or reverse grids

[Nitrodaze]

Update: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-stewards-retract-penalty-points-handed-to-hamilton-for-practice.2MFGbhuF10yL2mvnYWl1B9.html

they retracted the penalty points. But the damage was done. Turns out his team instructed him to perform the practice start at that spot: still it should have been a warning at the very most. The whole thing is ridiculous and they are doing their best to try and stop him. Still find the exuberance from Bottas funny. Talking about silencing his critics. ����

Well, all this say, is that the stewards in question did not conduct a thorough investigation before issuing any penalties. It was a very poor display of stewarding delibrations. It appeared to be a hasty decision not following any particular rules on the matter but driven by a strong desire to punish. Very ugly!

Mika Salo has disgraced the circle of driver stewards by not bringing his experience to the stewards forum and guiding them to an objective decision. He unfortunatelly has open the door to the question of his ability to act objectively when his decision can [or be percieved to] favour his countryman who would clearly benefit from a harsh decision.

It is unfortunate, because it has stained a race that Bottas has won deservedly. Bitter sweet for Mercedes.

[Nitrodaze]

Oh quit whining you bunch of fanboys.
Lewis broke the rules, so he got a penalty. He broke them again, so he got another penalty.

There is only one person to blame, and that's the guy who told him on the radio to break those rules.

Well, you miss the point. No one is saying Hamilton did not break some rules. The rule in question is not a hard rule in the regulations par se. It is a soft rule at the discretion of the stewards. Being a first occurrence, the proper objective approach would be to issue a reprimand for the first instance of the offence and a five second penalty for the second. That would have come across as a fair punishment.

Instead they were very heavy handed with a 10 seconds stop and go penalty and two points on his super license. This is indication that these stewards are not fit to do this job. They lack the analytical acumen or the objectivity required to perform this role.

And all everyone is seeing, is that Mika Salo has helped Bottas to a comfortable win.

Mika Salo is a disgrace really.

[N. Jones]

I don't know. It does seem a silly penalty but somebody at Merc must be bored with the penalties Hamilton has had the last two out of three races. This championship was over after round one and everyone knows it.

[Nitrodaze]

I don't know. It does seem a silly penalty but somebody at Merc must be bored with the penalties Hamilton has had the last two out of three races. This championship was over after round one and everyone knows it.

With all of Hamilton's BLM antics, they should know that they have to keep their noses clean, as any infraction, however small would invite severe punishment. And this rulling shows that very clearly.

[truefan72]

With all of Hamilton's BLM antics, they should know that they have to keep their noses clean, as any infraction, however small would invite severe punishment. And this rulling shows that very clearly.
Bingo

[Zico]

Oh quit whining you bunch of fanboys.
Lewis broke the rules, so he got a penalty. He broke them again, so he got another penalty.

There is only one person to blame, and that's the guy who told him on the radio to break those rules.

😆😆😆

I think its quite well known that I'm no Lewis fanboy, I'll give him stick when I feel he deserves it but equally, I will also stand in his corner when I feel his punishment is unjust.
All I, and I think most of us here, really want to see is fairness and equality multilaterally across the grid.

[Zico]

With all of Hamilton's BLM antics, they should know that they have to keep their noses clean, as any infraction, however small would invite severe punishment. And this rulling shows that very clearly.


I dont think so, if anything Liberty and the FIA have been overly supportive of his BLM political antics. Imo its because this season is even more of a disaster being effectively over half way through.
In a vain attempt at keeping things interesting, I think they would have done the same to any driver on the grid.

[Zico]

Breaking news..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/54318727

Hamiltons 2 penalty points rescinded.

[N. Jones]

With all of Hamilton's BLM antics, they should know that they have to keep their noses clean, as any infraction, however small would invite severe punishment. And this rulling shows that very clearly.

I don't think that is the case.

[Tazio]

Yeah! I don't see it either :stareup:
Sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!:monster: :vader::monkeedan:monkeedan:sailor::monster::monst er:

[denkimi]

Well, you miss the point. No one is saying Hamilton did not break some rules. The rule in question is not a hard rule in the regulations par se. It is a soft rule at the discretion of the stewards. Being a first occurrence, the proper objective approach would be to issue a reprimand for the first instance of the offence and a five second penalty for the second. That would have come across as a fair punishment.

Instead they were very heavy handed with a 10 seconds stop and go penalty and two points on his super license. This is indication that these stewards are not fit to do this job. They lack the analytical acumen or the objectivity required to perform this role.

And all everyone is seeing, is that Mika Salo has helped Bottas to a comfortable win.

Mika Salo is a disgrace really.
the point is he broke the rules and did something illegal and dangerous. not once, but twice.

stop whining about the stewards and salo, they only did what they hired to do. make sure the rules are followed.
they could indeed have given him a reprimand the first time, but they could just as well have given him a 5 place penalty. that would have cost him a lot more time.
as i said, the only one to blame is the guy who told lewis to do his practice starts in a place where it's not allowed.

its just as ridiculous that you have to go all the way around in turn 2 if they go even the tiniest bit off track. but that's the rules, you know them beforehand.

[Nitrodaze]

I don't think that is the case.

Ok so you don't think that is the case. Why don't you think that is the case. Where is your evidence to support your statement?

[Nitrodaze]

the point is he broke the rules and did something illegal and dangerous. not once, but twice.

stop whining about the stewards and salo, they only did what they hired to do. make sure the rules are followed.
they could indeed have given him a reprimand the first time, but they could just as well have given him a 5 place penalty. that would have cost him a lot more time.
as i said, the only one to blame is the guy who told lewis to do his practice starts in a place where it's not allowed.

its just as ridiculous that you have to go all the way around in turn 2 if they go even the tiniest bit off track. but that's the rules, you know them beforehand.

At least understand the situation before you comment. The penalty was given after both practise starts had occurred, so there would be no additional time loss involved. The infraction happened on the way to the grid, hence before the race had started. Such situation are normally dealt with after the race, but on this very rare occasion, it was penalized in the race. Which everyone found to be very odd in itself. More odd is that they penalized him twice with two 5 seconds stop and go penalties during the race which effectively killed the action in the sharp end of the race and initially slammed him with 2 points on is super licence.

The important thing to note is that, we the audience, have been cheated out of some interesting action brewing from the start. They killed the enjoyment of the race. It turned out to be a very boring race in the end.

That was the harshest possible punishment the stewards are allowed to levy on any discretionary breach of the rules. The situation clearly indicate that they were heavy handed, they could not wait until after the race, as they should. But were very anxious to impose a punishment as soon as possible to mess with Hamilton's race. More so, they imposed a hefty time penalty to ensure his race was properly stymed. If they could get away with it, they would have also extend their damage to the drivers championship by bringing Hamilton to within 2 points of a race ban, which would have made him very vulnerable in the drivers championship.

I get you don't like Hamilton and you are very clearly unsympathetic to his race, but you must have a sense of justice.

[Zico]

Ok so you don't think that is the case. Why don't you think that is the case. Where is your evidence to support your statement?


You stated that Lewis was excessively punished for rule breaking because of his BLM antics. I think its YOU.. who needs to offer evidence to support your statement first.

[Nitrodaze]

What a race by Perez. At this race, Perez simply put the finger up to Racing Point for letting him go. Fourth, with Stroll crashed out, is as clear a "F@ck You Racing Point" as he could possibly hope to state.

At some point in the future, they would miss him.

[N. Jones]

Ok so you don't think that is the case. Why don't you think that is the case. Where is your evidence to support your statement?

I will admit that Michael was protected when he was at Ferrari. I will also admit Michael Jordan was protected during his time in the NBA. That doesn't mean they should not have been punished for breaking the rules. It's a rule, he broke. If you, or Mercedes, can show me that others drivers have done this without a time penalty then I will be with you in defending him. Otherwise he got a penalty.

[N. Jones]

What a race by Perez. At this race, Perez simply put the finger up to Racing Point for letting him go. Fourth, with Stroll crashed out, is as clear a "F@ck You Racing Point" as he could possibly hope to state.

At some point in the future, they would miss him.

Hopefully he and Hulkenberg will sign at Haas and turn that team around.

[Nitrodaze]

I will admit that Michael was protected when he was at Ferrari. I will also admit Michael Jordan was protected during his time in the NBA. That doesn't mean they should not have been punished for breaking the rules. It's a rule, he broke. If you, or Mercedes, can show me that others drivers have done this without a time penalty then I will be with you in defending him. Otherwise he got a penalty.

Actually, l have researched the practise starts for races going back to the start opf the 2014 era. And l can tell you that this rule has been regularly broken without sanction on many occasions. It is one of those things that drivers have ignored on many occasions and the stewards have ignored.

These stewards have taken issue with it because it is Lewis Hamilton doing it. Plain and simple. The chaps at Mercedes that instructed Hamilton that it was ok to do so, were aware that it is something that was on many occasions done by other teams and drivers.

[truefan72]

I will admit that Michael was protected when he was at Ferrari. I will also admit Michael Jordan was protected during his time in the NBA. That doesn't mean they should not have been punished for breaking the rules. It's a rule, he broke. If you, or Mercedes, can show me that others drivers have done this without a time penalty then I will be with you in defending him. Otherwise he got a penalty.
I don’t think anyone is arguing he broke some rule ( as arbitrary and useless it is for a reconnaissance lap on the way to the grid ) but rather how the stewards decided to deal with this mildest of infractions. Verstappen, Vettel, LeClerc, Ricciardo, and others all have come out in defense of Hamilton and the absurdity of the ruling.
They chose to be beyond harsh and unprecedented in their ruling on this matter but did nothing for leclerc ending strolls race, for Sainz truly doing something dangerous like flooring it through the bollard section, slamming into the wall and causing a major incident, or Grosjean trashing the bollards and not only failing to go through them but also causing a safety issue by blasting them. All those issues happened in race but got nothing but Jamilton got slammed with. 10s penalty. One they didn’t even see fit to review properly by alleging they didn’t access the publicly available radio communication (or rather ignored it) causing them to reverse course after the damage is done. Anyway you look at it this was a travesty and a naked attempt to try and impede Hamilton by any means they could

[denkimi]

At least understand the situation before you comment. The penalty was given after both practise starts had occurred, so there would be no additional time loss involved. The infraction happened on the way to the grid, hence before the race had started. Such situation are normally dealt with after the race, but on this very rare occasion, it was penalized in the race. Which everyone found to be very odd in itself. More odd is that they penalized him twice with two 5 seconds stop and go penalties during the race which effectively killed the action in the sharp end of the race and initially slammed him with 2 points on is super licence.

The important thing to note is that, we the audience, have been cheated out of some interesting action brewing from the start. They killed the enjoyment of the race. It turned out to be a very boring race in the end.

That was the harshest possible punishment the stewards are allowed to levy on any discretionary breach of the rules. The situation clearly indicate that they were heavy handed, they could not wait until after the race, as they should. But were very anxious to impose a punishment as soon as possible to mess with Hamilton's race. More so, they imposed a hefty time penalty to ensure his race was properly stymed. If they could get away with it, they would have also extend their damage to the drivers championship by bringing Hamilton to within 2 points of a race ban, which would have made him very vulnerable in the drivers championship.

I get you don't like Hamilton and you are very clearly unsympathetic to his race, but you must have a sense of justice.
Hey, it's you who's trying his very best to be a fanboy here, not me.
If you want to make wild claims about racist stewards and imaginary interesting action like that, you better have evidence to support them.


Actually, l have researched the practise starts for races going back to the start opf the 2014 era. And l can tell you that this rule has been regularly broken without sanction on many occasions. It is one of those things that drivers have ignored on many occasions and the stewards have ignored.

These stewards have taken issue with it because it is Lewis Hamilton doing it. Plain and simple. The chaps at Mercedes that instructed Hamilton that it was ok to do so, were aware that it is something that was on many occasions done by other teams and drivers.
Right, show me who, where and when has broken that rule without being punished for it.

I admit it's the first time i ever heard of that rule, but since everyone but hamilton seems to have been aware about it, i assume it's well known amongst the drivers and teams.

[truefan72]

Actually, l have researched the practise starts for races going back to the start opf the 2014 era. And l can tell you that this rule has been regularly broken without sanction on many occasions. It is one of those things that drivers have ignored on many occasions and the stewards have ignored.

These stewards have taken issue with it because it is Lewis Hamilton doing it. Plain and simple. The chaps at Mercedes that instructed Hamilton that it was ok to do so, were aware that it is something that was on many occasions done by other teams and drivers.

I was going to do that myself. Glad you did the research.
This was a very transparent effort to impede Hamilton.
There really is nothing else to be aid on the matter.
And those folks who are talking about rules this and that, know full well, they never had, nor likely will ever have an issue with a practice start for cars on the way to the grid.
oh well. The damage has been done quite unfairly and the stewarding continues to be a joke.
They were so giddy to levy out a penalty to Hamilton, they disregarded the actual radio communication and were too busy doing that to even pay attention to actual race incidents that resulted in safety cars, VSC and freakin hazardous conditions at full race speed to other drivers. But yeah...lets focus on Hamilton leaving the garage on his way to the grid that affected nobody prior to the race.

[Zico]

Actually, l have researched the practise starts for races going back to the start opf the 2014 era. And l can tell you that this rule has been regularly broken without sanction on many occasions. It is one of those things that drivers have ignored on many occasions and the stewards have ignored.


How/where did you find historical data on drivers practice starts? I cant find anything at all..

From what I've read, It seems to differ from event to event and covered in the Race Directors pre event notes rather than by the sporting regulations. It's by the by though... According to Wolf no one has ever been given a race penalty for something that happened pre race, I dont doubt him. In which case It's pretty clear they are trying to impede him. What I. mightdisagree with you on is why




These stewards have taken issue with it because it is Lewis Hamilton doing it. Plain and simple. The chaps at Mercedes that instructed Hamilton that it was ok to do so, were aware that it is something that was on many occasions done by other teams and drivers.


Dont you think they are maybe just trying to impede him because they dont want the championship to be over at this stage?
Lewis doesn't believe its personal or because of his BLM antics, as you put it. What makes you think that?

[Nitrodaze]

How/where did you find historical data on drivers practice starts? I cant find anything at all..

From what I've read, It seems to differ from event to event and covered in the Race Directors pre event notes rather than by the sporting regulations. It's by the by though... According to Wolf no one has ever been given a race penalty for something that happened pre race, I dont doubt him. In which case It's pretty clear they are trying to impede him. What I. mightdisagree with you on is why





Dont you think they are maybe just trying to impede him because they dont want the championship to be over at this stage?
Lewis doesn't believe its personal or because of his BLM antics, as you put it. What makes you think that?

I have race recordings going back to 2010 on the hard drive of my skybox. I shall load them on here or on youtube when l figure out how to get them into my computer. I have watched the practise starts during Practise 1, 2 and 3. And on the way to the grid. You would be surprised how frequently this rule has been broken by drivers without as much as a warning.

The "so called" designated place for doing race start has been typically used as a place for the drivers to place their cars before the pit lane is open, if they intend to do a practise start after the track light goes green. The idea being to keep them out of the way of other cars not wanting to practise but wishing to head out to the track directly.

You would think Mika Salo would know that.

[Nitrodaze]

Hey, it's you who's trying his very best to be a fanboy here, not me.
If you want to make wild claims about racist stewards and imaginary interesting action like that, you better have evidence to support them.


Firstly, you would not find anywhere in my post where l have called the stewards racists. You have made that up. You very quick to call people fanboys. You are not capable of any form of analytical opinion, so you turn to insult and name calling.

I shall ignore your post from now on d*ckh@ad.

[Zico]

I have race recordings going back to 2010 on the hard drive of my skybox. I shall load them on here or on youtube when l fugure out how to get them into my computer. I have watched the practise starts during Practise 1, 2 and 3. And on the way to the grid. You would be surprised how frequently this rule has been broken by drivers without as much as a warning.

Its ok, you dont have to, I believe you. Its pretty obvious they are trying to impede him without even seeing that.


Meanwhile LeClerc wasn't even investigated after hitting Stroll and ending his race.. go figure.

[Nitrodaze]

Dont you think they are maybe just trying to impede him because they dont want the championship to be over at this stage?
Lewis doesn't believe its personal or because of his BLM antics, as you put it. What makes you think that?

I hinted that it probably is because of the BLM. I did not say it is why he was victimized. I buy the idea that they probably do not want the season to be resolved quickly. Such is Hamilton's domination this season, it is problematic.

I have to say l have been rooting for Verstapenn since the season started, when it became clear the Ferrari had lost its mojo. We all want a hard fought championship. And we looked to Bottas V3.0 to turn up this season and really give Hamilton a proper fight for the title. Bottas failed to step up as a genuine title contender. He certainly did not quite reach the Rosberg standard required to give Hamiltion the pressure needed to make this a well fought season. Verstapenn had a number of setbacks, of no fault of his own; that has kept him out of the title fight.

What we have ended up with is a runaway stream train that is Hamilton, cruising to the 2020 title. The fact is, Hamilton has set a very high standard; equivalent to the very high standard that Mercedes has set to the other teams. Like Mercedes, Hamilton is winning because the other drivers have not been able to raise their game to his uncomprisingly high level. Probably except Verstapenn who is clearly curtailed by the quality of the car he is in.

When Hamilton had his two setbacks, Boittas and Verstapenn failed to capitalize on it. Which essentially made the gap between Hamilton and his nearest rival to be so great. in a sense, we cannot blame Hamilton for the competition not being able to match his level of performance.

Whatever the case, this is not the way to do it. It is ugly and shamefull.

[gm99]

At least understand the situation before you comment. The penalty was given after both practise starts had occurred, so there would be no additional time loss involved. The infraction happened on the way to the grid, hence before the race had started. Such situation are normally dealt with after the race, but on this very rare occasion, it was penalized in the race. Which everyone found to be very odd in itself. More odd is that they penalized him twice with two 5 seconds stop and go penalties during the race which effectively killed the action in the sharp end of the race and initially slammed him with 2 points on is super licence.

The important thing to note is that, we the audience, have been cheated out of some interesting action brewing from the start. They killed the enjoyment of the race. It turned out to be a very boring race in the end.

That was the harshest possible punishment the stewards are allowed to levy on any discretionary breach of the rules. The situation clearly indicate that they were heavy handed, they could not wait until after the race, as they should. But were very anxious to impose a punishment as soon as possible to mess with Hamilton's race.

But if the stewards had indeed waited until after the race, and then handed out a time penalty, then Mercedes would - and rightly so - be the first to complain that they didn't have a chance to react during the race by building a larger gap.

And I think we have seen in-race penalties for pre-race infractions before, like mechanics failing to clear the grid in time or drivers leaving a closed pit lane.

[Nitrodaze]

But if the stewards had indeed waited until after the race, and then handed out a time penalty, then Mercedes would - and rightly so - be the first to complain that they didn't have a chance to react during the race by building a larger gap.

And I think we have seen in-race penalties for pre-race infractions before, like mechanics failing to clear the grid in time or drivers leaving a closed pit lane.

Actually, on the contrary. Mercedes and Hamilton would have been better placed to present evidence in defence of the decision to do a practise start where they did. If any penalty was due, they would have been given the appropriate level of punishment which nobody would have disputed. Whatever that was, is what it would have been.

The sort of infractions that you discribed are all in the regulations and the regulation stipulate exactly how they should be handled.

[gm99]

Actually, on the contrary. Mercedes and Hamilton would have been better placed to present evidence in defence of the decision to do a practise start where they did. If any penalty was due, they would have been given the appropriate level of punishment which nobody have would disputed. Whatever that was, is what it would have been.


So if Hamilton had crossed the finish line eight seconds ahead of Bottas and 9,5 ahead of Verstappen and then been given a ten-second penalty after the race (and after the podium ceremony) , you really think "nobody would have disputed" it? I can just imagine Lewis saying "Oh, it is what it is, never mind, here's the winner's trophy Valtteri, cheerio mate!":D

[Bagwan]

So , why did he do that , anyway ?

He , presumably , was there for the stewards meeting before the race and received the specific instruction as to where he could perform the practice start .
So , again , I ask why .


I saw a quote from the team saying they thought the stewards would take a dim view as soon as they saw it .
So , it seems they didn't understand either .

[Nitrodaze]

So , why did he do that , anyway ?

He , presumably , was there for the stewards meeting before the race and received the specific instruction as to where he could perform the practice start .
So , again , I ask why .


I saw a quote from the team saying they thought the stewards would take a dim view as soon as they saw it .
So , it seems they didn't understand either .

What are you talking about now? That all the drivers were told during the stewards meeting where to practise start? And the racing director notes that suggest it was ok was somehow incorrect. Or that you have been showing serious dislike for Hamilton for a while now.

I can only take your point of view seriously if it is an objective opinion supported with good evidence. Otherwise you are just peddling prejudice.

[Nitrodaze]

So if Hamilton had crossed the finish line eight seconds ahead of Bottas and 9,5 ahead of Verstappen and then been given a ten-second penalty after the race (and after the podium ceremony) , you really think "nobody would have disputed" it? I can just imagine Lewis saying "Oh, it is what it is, never mind, here's the winner's trophy Valtteri, cheerio mate!":D

I am saying they would have given Hamilton a fair and proper punishment with the benefit of having all the information to hand. If they had done so before the race, the outcome may well have turned out to be what you have described in the end. It is what it is!

What everyone is protesting is the unprecedented heavy handedness of the punishment for a harmless and safe situation. If you have any sense of justice at all, l am sure you would see that. He should be punished fairly is all l am saying. What we saw was far from fair or just.

[The Black Knight]

Oh quit whining you bunch of fanboys.
Lewis broke the rules, so he got a penalty. He broke them again, so he got another penalty.

There is only one person to blame, and that's the guy who told him on the radio to break those rules.

I’ve no issue with the timed penalty, it’s the two penalty points that were completely over the top.

[The Black Knight]

I will admit that Michael was protected when he was at Ferrari. I will also admit Michael Jordan was protected during his time in the NBA. That doesn't mean they should not have been punished for breaking the rules. It's a rule, he broke. If you, or Mercedes, can show me that others drivers have done this without a time penalty then I will be with you in defending him. Otherwise he got a penalty.

I actually don’t think he did break the rules. Where he did his practice starts were within the letter of the law. This is the hairy fairy grey area I’ve always hated about F1 where stewards decide ad hoc to impose penalties and it always boils my piss. If the stewards or FIA impose a rule and a competitor sticks to that rule but not in exactly the way that was intended then that’s on the Stewards and FIA to clarify moving forward, it’s not right for the competitor to be punished because the Stewards or FIA didn’t think it through enough. It’s part of sport that a competitor stretches the rules, it’s the governing body’s place to ensure the rules are robust enough that only their interpretation can be applied without breaking the rules.

[Bagwan]

What are you talking about now? That all the drivers were told during the stewards meeting where to practise start? And the racing director notes that suggest it was ok was somehow incorrect. Or that you have been showing serious dislike for Hamilton for a while now.

I can only take your point of view seriously if it is an objective opinion supported with good evidence. Otherwise you are just peddling prejudice.

What are you on about ?

What is prejudiced about asking why he went much farther out than anyone else to do his practice start ?

Is there some advantage to be gained by doing it differently ?

I'm just trying to understand why he actually did it , not throwing rocks at him .

[Firstgear]

What are you talking about now? That all the drivers were told during the stewards meeting where to practise start? And the racing director notes that suggest it was ok was somehow incorrect. Or that you have been showing serious dislike for Hamilton for a while now.

I can only take your point of view seriously if it is an objective opinion supported with good evidence. Otherwise you are just peddling prejudice.
Dazey, you shouldn't be so quick to pull out the Haters card. Looks to me like Baggy is asking an honest question. As for your question: "That all the drivers were told during the stewards meeting where to practise start?"

Looks like the answer is yes. A quote from an article on another site has the following:

[pantealex]

I’ve no issue with the timed penalty, it’s the two penalty points that were completely over the top.

Lewis did NOT get any penalty points !

[The Black Knight]

Lewis did NOT get any penalty points !

No but he was supposed to. That the penalty points were imposed in the first place raises serious questions about Stewards bias. It was ridiculous to even impose them to begin with.

[N. Jones]

I don’t think anyone is arguing he broke some rule ( as arbitrary and useless it is for a reconnaissance lap on the way to the grid ) but rather how the stewards decided to deal with this mildest of infractions. Verstappen, Vettel, LeClerc, Ricciardo, and others all have come out in defense of Hamilton and the absurdity of the ruling.
They chose to be beyond harsh and unprecedented in their ruling on this matter but did nothing for leclerc ending strolls race, for Sainz truly doing something dangerous like flooring it through the bollard section, slamming into the wall and causing a major incident, or Grosjean trashing the bollards and not only failing to go through them but also causing a safety issue by blasting them. All those issues happened in race but got nothing but Jamilton got slammed with. 10s penalty. One they didn’t even see fit to review properly by alleging they didn’t access the publicly available radio communication (or rather ignored it) causing them to reverse course after the damage is done. Anyway you look at it this was a travesty and a naked attempt to try and impede Hamilton by any means they could

OK, you and Nitrodaze have a good point. If others got off then Hammy should have too. I will always admit it is a strange penalty because I do not see how it affects other drivers.
Oh well. He is going to win the title anyway.

[Zico]

OK, you and Nitrodaze have a good point. If others got off then Hammy should have too. I will always admit it is a strange penalty because I do not see how it affects other drivers.
Oh well. He is going to win the title anyway.


.... not necessarily.

If we can all get together, catch him breaking some more rules and report him or maybe fit him up on something really, really serious he could get a 2 year ban. In which case, if Merc are no longer competative in 2022.. that could stop him beating Mikes record.
I wont feel bad, he's no better than Grosjean, just has the best car and doesn't deserve it anyway.

Anyone else onboard?


:)

[Firstgear]

Another snip from another article in the same place I quoted before. It seems to answer why Lewis did what he did, as well as confirming that the team knew it might be a problem.

[gm99]

Another snip from another article in the same place I quoted before. It seems to answer why Lewis did what he did, as well as confirming that the team knew it might be a problem.

Timo Glock also stated on German TV that Lewis was probably heading for a "virgin" part of the track, whereas the official practice start area might have too much rubber laid down from previous attempts to properly simulate a race start.
It does lead me to question why Mercedes only told one of their drivers to go for that particular area, though...

[Nitrodaze]

i just heard Toto Wolff was offered the F1 CEO job but Ferrari vetoed his appointment which led to Domenicalli's appointment. F1 has missed a great opportunity there l think. Can you imagine how efficiently and fair F1 may have become with Wolff in charge? I think it is a huge missed opportunity. But he may fill that position in the future.

I applaud Domenicalli's appointment but the optics looks too Ferrari dominated appointments. We have the FIA president [Todt], the F1 Motor Sports and technical director [Brawn] and the new F1 CEO [Domenicalli] all previous Ferrari staff. I fail to see how Liberty think this was a wise choice of selection. They have open the door to more Ferrari favoritism criticism in the future surely.

[The Black Knight]

i just heard Toto Wolff was offered the F1 CEO job but Ferrari vetoed his appointment which led to Domenicalli's appointment. F1 has missed a great opportunity there l think. Can you imagine how efficiently and fair F1 may have become with Wolff in charge? I think it is a huge missed opportunity. But he may fill that position in the future.

I applaud Domenicalli's appointment but the optics looks too Ferrari dominated appointments. We have the FIA president, the F1 sporting director and the new F1 CEO all previous Ferrari staff. I fail to see how Liberty think this was a wise choice of selection. They have open the door to more Ferrari favoritism criticism in the future surely.

Yeah, Toto was first choice but I can understand Ferrari not wanting him. If he had a number of years away from the sport it might be different but to go from a direct competitor to F1 CEO... even Toto might find impartiality tough there.

[Nitrodaze]

Yeah, Toto was first choice but I can understand Ferrari not wanting him. If he had a number of years away from the sport it might be different but to go from a direct competitor to F1 CEO... even Toto might find impartiality tough there.

I get that. I would probably have a thing or two to say about that also. :-)

[N4D13]

Keep in mind that Wolff also owns a chunk of Mercedes and Williams, so he's definitely unfit for the role of F1 chairman in my book. (I'm unsure about where Domenicali's invested, though.)

[Bagwan]

So , now I understand why he did it .
He was going for a piece of virgin track to start on , more like the grid .

And , now I understand why there was a first , then second penalty , as you are not allowed to stop in the grid lane unless you are performing a practice start . He had stopped , but went out farther to perform the start .

But , I also understand that a similar incident had occurred with Leclerc earlier this year in Spa when he was cited for not performing his recon lap fast enough , but was found to have done a practice start somewhere around the lap .
In that case the race director's notes had also shown the drivers where they could try the start , and Leclerc had obviously breached the rule , however , somehow , instead of being punished , it was seen only as reasoning that a punishment for too long a lap not to be handed out .

That's not very consistent , and a little hard to defend with a "too much mayhem" argument , as it was before the race .

[Zico]

i just heard Toto Wolff was offered the F1 CEO job but Ferrari vetoed his appointment which led to Domenicalli's appointment. F1 has missed a great opportunity there l think. Can you imagine how efficiently and fair F1 may have become with Wolff in charge? I think it is a huge missed opportunity. But he may fill that position in the future.

I applaud Domenicalli's appointment but the optics looks too Ferrari dominated appointments. We have the FIA president, the F1 sporting director and the new F1 CEO all previous Ferrari staff. I fail to see how Liberty think this was a wise choice of selection. They have open the door to more Ferrari favoritism criticism in the future surely.


Yep, my thoughts also. The two biggest positions of power now held by Ferrari men. I'm sure Domenicalle will be impartial though, after all its not like Todt has ever let Ferrari away with murder or shown any bias with the punishments,NDA's etc for any of their shenanigans. :)

In all seriousness... It wouldnt surprise me at all if we were to see a proper resurgence and dominant spell from Ferrari within the next 2-3 years, the new regs will be a complete reset and they have their men in both key positions now. The early signs are there.. IMO at least.

[Nitrodaze]

Yep, my thoughts also. The two biggest positions of power now held by Ferrari men. I'm sure Domenicalle will be impartial though, after all its not like Todt has ever let Ferrari away with murder or shown any bias with the punishments,NDA's etc for any of their shenanigans. :)

In all seriousness... It wouldnt surprise me at all if we were to see a proper resurgence and dominant spell from Ferrari within the next 2-3 years, the new regs will be a complete reset and they have their men in both key positions now. The early signs are there.. IMO at least.

Sorry, l beg to differ. Ferrari's engine infraction was as serious as the Mclaren Ferrari-gate of 2003, where Mclare was stripped of their constructors points and fined millions. But Ferrari got away scot-free with their constructor points intact and no monetary fines. Also the details of their wrong doing was covered up. Which other team, on the grid can enjoy such protection?

While Dominecalli is a respectable man by all accounts, he is Italian and a Ferrari man. And when it comes to it, when he shall be faced with taking a legitimate action that would be detrimental to the Italian national F1 team, you can bloody well guess where he would be leaning.

That is why l thought a fairer appointment would be someone with a greater degree of neutrality. To be honest, l don't understand why Chase is stepping back. He is doing a great job.

[Zico]

Sorry, l beg to differ. Ferrari's engine infraction was as serious as the Mclaren Ferrari-gate of 2003, where Mclare was stripped of their constructors points and fined millions. But Ferrari got away scot-free with their constructor points intact and no monetary fines. Also the details of their wrong doing was covered up. Which other team, on the grid can enjoy such protection?......


I dont think you do beg to differ... but I should have made my attempt at sarcasm far clearer. ;)

[gm99]

Sorry, l beg to differ. Ferrari's engine infraction was as serious as the Mclaren Ferrari-gate of 2003, where Mclare was stripped of their constructors points and fined millions. But Ferrari got away scot-free with their constructor points intact and no monetary fines. Also the details of their wrong doing was covered up. Which other team, on the grid can enjoy such protection?


McLaren was also initially acquited before the FIA World Council in 2007 (not 2003, as you stated). The only reason this was turned into a conviction was because Ron Dennis came forward after Alonso tried to blackmail him.
Apparently, the FIA did not have such fortune this time around and therefore lacked conclusive evidence to go after Ferrari lock, stock and barrel.
Considering we still know very little of the exact nature of Ferrari's wrongdoing last year (other than that it had something to do with the fuel flow), I think your conclusion that it was as bad as spygate is somewhat ambitious. McLaren didn't just break the rules of F1, as Ferrari seem to have done last year, but actively stole the intellectual property of a competitor, which is not just an infringement of F1 rules, but a criminal offense in most countries.

However, I agree with you that it would have been better to appoint someone without strong Ferrari ties to head F1.

[Nitrodaze]

I dont think you do beg to differ... but I should have made my attempt at sarcasm far clearer. ;)

You are quite right, l took your post literally. :-)

[Nitrodaze]

McLaren was also initially acquited before the FIA World Council in 2007 (not 2003, as you stated). The only reason this was turned into a conviction was because Ron Dennis came forward after Alonso tried to blackmail him.
Apparently, the FIA did not have such fortune this time around and therefore lacked conclusive evidence to go after Ferrari lock, stock and barrel.
Considering we still know very little of the exact nature of Ferrari's wrongdoing last year (other than that it had something to do with the fuel flow), I think your conclusion that it was as bad as spygate is somewhat ambitious. McLaren didn't just break the rules of F1, as Ferrari seem to have done last year, but actively stole the intellectual property of a competitor, which is not just an infringement of F1 rules, but a criminal offense in most countries.

However, I agree with you that it would have been better to appoint someone without strong Ferrari ties to head F1.

Same difference, they both cheated and circumvented the rules. How Ferrari's designs documents ended up in Mclaren was not orchestrated by the team par se. it got into the team via an unscrupulous staff without the teams initial knowledge. So it is strong language to say they stole. The fact of the matter is we know the fine details of that event. We cannot say the same for the Ferrari engine infraction. So, in a sense, you cannot argue the difference between both cases cited.

Different FIA Presidents, different transparency. You have to also take note that it was an English FIA president and an English F1 team involved in Ferrari-gate. As oppose to an ex-Ferrari team boss FIA president and the Ferrari team in the Ferrari-engine-gate event. As my dear American friends would say; GO FIGURE!

[gm99]

Same difference, they both cheated and circumvented the rules. How Ferrari's designs documents ended up in Mclaren was not orchestrated by the team par se. it got into the team via an unscrupulous staff without the teams initial knowledge. So it is strong language to say they stole. The fact of the matter is we know the fine details of that event. We cannot say the same for the Ferrari engine infraction. So, in a sense, you cannot argue the difference between both cases cited.


But neither can you argue the similarity for the very same reason ;)
I think there is a difference between cheating to gain an unfair advantage (like Ferrari seem to have done last year, or Tyrrell in 1984, or BAR in 2005) and doing that plus weakening another team at the same time. This is what McLaren did in 2007, because they didn't just use Ferrari's documents to improve their own performance, but also to protest the legality of the Ferrari car.

Again, I agree with you that Todt's FIA handled the Ferrari case very badly. I have never heard of an agreement between the governing body and a competitor that is additionally subject to a non-disclosure clause. It should have been brought before the WMSC. If the evidence had been enough to convict Ferrari, they would most likely have got a severe punishment along the lines you suggested. If there had been no substantial proof of Ferrari cheating, they should have been acquited "in dubio pro reo". That's what Mosley would have done, but as he writes in his autobiography, Todt is more risk-adverse.

[Nitrodaze]

But neither can you argue the similarity for the very same reason ;)

Again, I agree with you that Todt's FIA handled the Ferrari case very badly. I have never heard of an agreement between the governing body and a competitor that is additionally subject to a non-disclosure clause. It should have been brought before the WMSC. If the evidence had been enough to convict Ferrari, they would most likely have got a severe punishment along the lines you suggested. If there had been no substantial proof of Ferrari cheating, they should have been acquited "in dubio pro reo". That's what Mosley would have done, but as he writes in his autobiography, Todt is more risk-adverse.

At least we agree on something.

[Nitrodaze]

It is clear now that Toto is staying at Petronas Mercedes for the foreseeable future. In what capacity is unclear.

[Nitrodaze]

Dazey, you shouldn't be so quick to pull out the Haters card. Looks to me like Baggy is asking an honest question. As for your question: "That all the drivers were told during the stewards meeting where to practise start?"

Looks like the answer is yes. A quote from an article on another site has the following:

I have to say, l could not stop laughing to see that Masi and his stewards thought that Hamilton had gained an advantage by doing his practise start where he did. Hence, deemed it to be a sporting offence. I wait to see what kind of advantage that is. It is laughable how they keep digging themselves deeper into the "we are out to get him" hole.

The excuse that it is a sporting offence; hence the in-race punishment, sets a new precedent. And defines a new kind of infraction not defined anywhere in the regulations. If it was, they would be very quick to quote the rules in question. I understand Masi wants to defend his stewards, but at the expense of being seen as part of the problem.

[gm99]

The excuse that it is a sporting offence; hence the in-race punishment, sets a new precedent. And defines a new kind of infraction not defined anywhere in the regulations. If it was, they would be very quick to quote the rules in question.

The stewards did quote the rules they thought Hamilton violated in their report: https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a34179790/how-lewis-hamilton-lost-the-f1-russian-grand-prix-before-it-even-started/

Article 12.1.1. of the FIA International Sporting Code and Article 36.1 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations. The latter quite clearly defines what is - and what isn't - allowed on the installation lap.

[Nitrodaze]

The stewards did quote the rules they thought Hamilton violated in their report: https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a34179790/how-lewis-hamilton-lost-the-f1-russian-grand-prix-before-it-even-started/

Article 12.1.1. of the FIA International Sporting Code and Article 36.1 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations. The latter quite clearly defines what is - and what isn't - allowed on the installation lap.

I think Article 36.1 could be successfully disputed. Unfortunately, they did not provide the complete wordsing of item 19.1 of the Event Note v3 for to have a clear understanding of where the designated place for practise start is.

[Nitrodaze]

The stewards did quote the rules they thought Hamilton violated in their report: https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a34179790/how-lewis-hamilton-lost-the-f1-russian-grand-prix-before-it-even-started/

Article 12.1.1. of the FIA International Sporting Code and Article 36.1 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations. The latter quite clearly defines what is - and what isn't - allowed on the installation lap.

I think Article 36.1 could be successfully disputed. Unfortunately, they did not provide the complete wording for item 19.1 of the Event Note v3 for us to have a clear understanding of where the designated place for practise start is. I think the rules around this area is woolly and confusing. Masi has not explained the main reasons for the designated area. when it applies and when it doesn't. If the designated place for practice start is not suitable for that purpose, what do drivers do? Can they move further to use virgin surface just ahead of the designated area?

This is the reason why this sort of infraction ought to be looked at after the race. To allow proper analysis of the situation to understand where this rule should be relaxed out of necessity.

It is easy to say a specific rule has been broken. They miss the point that they have failed to follow a fair procedure and have been hasty to impose a penalty on Hamilton. They have deprive everyone of the chance to have a dialogue about all permutation of the use of the designated area and then determining if and what level of penalty is actually due based on the evidence and better understanding of the situation.

I think item 19.1 ought to make allowance for situation where the designated practice spot is no longer suitable due to too much rubber for instance. The stewards being gun ho with punishment has place Masi in position where he is unable to review and revise 19.1 to allow driver to explore other immediate appropriate surfaces to do practice starts if the designated area is unsuitable.

The result of the punishment is such that the first few driver to get to the designated area would enjoy a good condition of the surface for their practice starts. Everyone else is now condemed by this ruling by the stewards to use the poor surface or face a penalty if they use any other surfaces. This is how bad the stewards ruling actually is.

[Nitrodaze]

EVENT NOTES (https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2020%20Russian%20Grand%20Prix%20-%20Race%20Directors'%20Event%20Notes%20.pdf) 24/09/2020 10:55 - Michael Masi Race Director

19) Practice starts
19.1 Practice starts may only be carried out on the right-hand side after the pit exit lights and, for the
avoidance of doubt, this includes any time the pit exit is open for the race.
Drivers must leave adequate room on their left for another driver to pass.
19.2 For reasons of safety and sporting equity, cars may not stop in the fast lane at any time the pit exit is open without a justifiable reason (a practice start is not considered a justifiable reason).

According to 19.1, there is no specific spot where practice starts must occur but a general area which is on the right hand side anywhere after the pit exit lights.

It also stipulates that the driver must leave adequate room on the left for other drivers to pass.

It is very hard to show from the wording of this rule how Hamilton has contravened this instruction in 19.1. Especially since it could be shown that drivers have done the same in the past. And that it makes sense that it is a general area due to one specific spot not being sufficient for all drivers to do a practice start; due to degradation of the surface at a single spot after the first few drivers have used the spot.

Micheal Masi had the opportunity to clarify the extent of the area on the right that applies to this rule but has failed to do so because it would make the stewards look very bad as a consequence. So the paddock is left with an unclear indication of what is and is not in the extent of the zone in the pit exit that should be used for practice starts.

Now, don't you just miss Charlie Whiting!


You could argue that Hamilton caused other drivers to cross the pit line. But is that unsafe with all cars heading to the grid for the start of the race. This would be a good argument if this occurred during active practice sessions for instance. As one would expect fast moving cars to be passing the pit exit, thus crossing the line may be deemed dangerous in that situation. But this is not the case.

Whichever way you look at this, it still looks like the instruction in the event notes was poorly interpreted. And the following punishment was consequentially grossly heavy handed. And Masi is not covering himself with glory here, as he has displayed that he lacks objectivity.

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[Nitrodaze]

It is always great to see another perspective on the matter raised in this thread. Check out what Marc Priestley has to say on the matter here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl04ygbbrqE)