2020 Tuscan GP - Mugello

[Nitrodaze]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELVtXbfWoAA8TQN.jpg

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/1f99775815c465b7f4e99474ec48ed01?width=650

We come to the first F1 race ever at Mugello, behind a sensational Monza race that presented the F1 world with a new F1 race winner in Pierre Gasly. On a Monza weekend where Hamilton was faced with some bad luck, his rivals failed to capitalized on it. Monza was a race that Bottas needed to win to re-establish himself as a realistic contender for the 2020 drivers title.

Equally, this was a race that Verstapenn need to win to close the gap right up to Hamilton, which would have spiced up the season. We go into Mugello with Hamilton still comfortably in the lead and Bottas back in second.


Mugello is Ferrari's test track normally. And this race marks Ferrari's 1000th race celebration, unfortunately in a season where Ferrari is faced with some adversity. This track is new to all the drivers on the grid with exception to Vettel, Raikonen, Leclerc and Giovinazzi. Hence it is interesting to see how the Mercedes fair on Ferrari's test track.

Mercedes and Redbull would be seeking to bounce back from a poor Monza weekend. Hence, this weekend presents Bottas and Verstapenn a great opportunity to give Hamilton a hard time. This is a historic race as the winner of this race shall be the first and only driver to ever win a F1 race on this track; as this track is not on future F1 calendars.

[gm99]

[IMG]
This track is new to all the drivers on the grid with exception to Vettel, Raikonen, Leclerc and Giovinazzi.


That's not true. F1 last held a test there in 2012, where Grosjean, Bottas, Ricciardo & Perez participated, so they know the track as well..

[truefan72]

Well Bottas blew his chances at P1 because he was too slow in his final out lap and let numerous cars go bye him. Smh

Good job Perez. Faster than stroll even though he doesn’t have the new aero parts. Happy with p5 for Leclerc

[The Black Knight]

Could Stroll be more useless, out qualified by Hulkenberg and now by his teammate and Lance has loads of upgraded parts. Bloody hell, that’s team’s a fucking joke.

[Bagwan]

Could Stroll be more useless, out qualified by Hulkenberg and now by his teammate and Lance has loads of upgraded parts. Bloody hell, that’s team’s a fucking joke.

Lance didn't get his final run in because of the yellow flag .
Perez did .

[The Black Knight]

Lance didn't get his final run in because of the yellow flag .
Perez did .

Perez was ahead from the first run anyway. With the upgrades he should have been 3-4 tenths up the road consistently. Lance has no business on this grid. Little Daddy boy he is that has never been worthy of a seat in F1.

[Nitrodaze]

That's not true. F1 last held a test there in 2012, where Grosjean, Bottas, Ricciardo & Perez participated, so they know the track as well..

Yeah, l heard there were Pirelli tyre tests at Mugello a few years back. This explains why Bottas had the edge over Hamilton all the way up to Q3.

[Nitrodaze]

This is a trully great track. It has got everything, slow corners, fast curves, a fast straight and steep inclines. It is a racers track like spa and l bet the drivers love it.

This is the first track this season to let fans into the granstand. The ticket price must have been stupendious.

Redbull did a great job for Albon so far this weekend. Albon fourth and right behind Verstapenn is a great showing by Redbull.

[Nitrodaze]

Perez was ahead from the first run anyway. With the upgrades he should have been 3-4 tenths up the road consistently. Lance has no business on this grid. Little Daddy boy he is that has never been worthy of a seat in F1.

Stroll was caught out by the Ocon yellow flag. He did not get a chance to have a run, much like it deprived Bottas from another go at pole. With the upgrades, chances are Stroll would have been ahead.

[truefan72]

Hmm I think this incident was kimi’s fault. His car was out of sorts and steered into Gasly which then cascaded to other drivers

[truefan72]

I have to say the marshalls this weekend have been exceptionally slow. In watching both F2 races and now this race.

[gm99]

What a strange restart by Bottas which ultimately triggered the pile-up farther down the field. Will we actually be getting any racing this afternoon?

[truefan72]

I must say Bottas weaving and ultra slow start caused this. Ridiculous. Tbh I would penalize him.

[truefan72]

What a strange restart by Bottas which ultimately triggered the pile-up farther down the field. Will we actually be getting any racing this afternoon?
Yup. Lewis is wrong. Nothing to do with the safety car lights and all to do with Bottas stupendous restart. I bet you the rules will be changed after this because that was unnaceptable

[N4D13]

TBH I think it was excessive for Bottas to hold everyone up like that, but not against the regs, so I'd be surprised if he got a penalty. Still, the regs need tweaking because it's very dangerous stuff - the drivers in the back don't have a way to know that the frontrunners are slow, so as soon as they hit the throttle, then there's a clusterfuck.

I wish we can get a replay of the Sainz spin in T2 because at some point I got the impression that he was already spinning, or at least understeering, when he hit Stroll.

And oh dear, Gasly. That was a terrible qualifying yesterday and he topped it off with a weird crash - mostly his mistake IMO, but it's one of these things that happen in the first lap. At the same time, he should know that if you get in the gap between two cars right before a tight corner, that gap is going to disappear and so will your car if you don't back out.

[Nitrodaze]

I must say Bottas weaving and ultra slow start caused this. Ridiculous. Tbh I would penalize him.

Yep, but Bottas did nothing wrong though as the temporary safety car until they cross the start line.

[Nitrodaze]

Spa 1998 comes to mind with this pile up

[Nitrodaze]

Yup. Lewis is wrong. Nothing to do with the safety car lights and all to do with Bottas stupendous restart. I bet you the rules will be changed after this because that was unnaceptable

I think Hamilton was talking about the green light coming on before Bottas had crossed the line. Which l think caused the midfield to start racing before Bottas crossed the line.

[truefan72]

But...Latifi was going balls out without anyone else which then triggered Sainz to go to. So Latifi is the true villain and Sainz for not paying attention. This might be a case where the teams should be allowed to talk to their drivers on restarts. But Bottas ridiculous slow restart was a factor too

[N4D13]

I wish we can get a replay of the Sainz spin in T2 because at some point I got the impression that he was already spinning, or at least understeering, when he hit Stroll.
Found a replay on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/iry3f8/start_replay/) - not great, but it seems like Sainz and Stroll were parallel, but just a bit too close and Stroll had the outside, so he was faster, clipped Sainz' tyre and that was that. Sainz should have stayed a bit more on the inside there, but well, that's his race gone now.

[Nitrodaze]

TBH I think it was excessive for Bottas to hold everyone up like that, but not against the regs, so I'd be surprised if he got a penalty. Still, the regs need tweaking because it's very dangerous stuff - the drivers in the back don't have a way to know that the frontrunners are slow, so as soon as they hit the throttle, then there's a clusterfuck.

I wish we can get a replay of the Sainz spin in T2 because at some point I got the impression that he was already spinning, or at least understeering, when he hit Stroll.

And oh dear, Gasly. That was a terrible qualifying yesterday and he topped it off with a weird crash - mostly his mistake IMO, but it's one of these things that happen in the first lap. At the same time, he should know that if you get in the gap between two cars right before a tight corner, that gap is going to disappear and so will your car if you don't back out.

I don't think he would get a penalty as that would be ridiculous. The start line for all tracks need to be moved closer to start of the straight to avoid this sort of thing. Regulations around this is fine l think and does not need to change.

[Tazio]

Bottas did nothing wrong!
Sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry! :arrows::laugh::sailor::wave:

[Tazio]

Stewards busy today! :dork: :dog::andrea::vampire::grenade:

[Nitrodaze]

But...Latifi was going balls out without anyone else which then triggered Sainz to go to. So Latifi is the true villain and Sainz for not paying attention. This might be a case where the teams should be allowed to talk to their drivers on restarts. But Bottas ridiculous slow restart was a factor too

Yep, the rookie was the tinder that started this pile up. Even so they all ought to know not to overtake until after the start line.

[truefan72]

I think Hamilton was talking about the green light coming on before Bottas had crossed the line. Which l think caused the midfield to start racing before Bottas crossed the line.
Ah. I see. That might be an issue. When does the green light typically come on a SC restart, I thought it is triggered once the safety car pulls off and after the lead car crosses the line. The problem was that Bottas was super slow crossing the line which had a concertina effect in the mid pack which were still slowing and braking and weaving.
I would tweak the process to ban weaving once the SC car leaves and establish a minimum speed.

[truefan72]

Anthony Davidson makes some good points though so I defer to his opinion

[Nitrodaze]

We get two races in one like in Monza. This is a fantastic race. I hope we get to come back here in the future. WHAT A TRACK!

[Nitrodaze]

Verstapenn is out of championship contention at this point l think. Depends on what happens after the restart though.

[Nitrodaze]

The Redbull cars not on form this weekend.

[gm99]

Bottas gets penalized by Hamilton :p

Terrible restart by Albon.

[Nitrodaze]

Leclerc a bottleneck at this stage

[Nitrodaze]

Wow, the DRS is very effective at this race. How Ricciado powers pass Perez with such ease.

[truefan72]

I think the RBR has a power issue
Also how bad is the Ferrari that vettel on softs can’t get past russel on mediums smh

[truefan72]

Wow, the DRS is very effective at this race. How Ricciado powers pass Perez with such ease. yup. But why is Perez so slow?

[Nitrodaze]

I think the RBR has a power issue
Also how bad is the Ferrari that vettel on softs can’t get past russel on mediums smh
Yep, Leclerc drifting backwards now

[Nitrodaze]

yup. But why is Perez so slow?

All the good bits are on Stroll's car.

[Nitrodaze]

What is the chance that Russell in the Williams get in front of Leclerc?

[truefan72]

Really sad state of the Ferrari. At least they are the best looking car I’ve seen in years. Keep that livery

[Nitrodaze]

What is the chance that Russell in the Williams get in front of Leclerc?

Hehe happened

[truefan72]

What is the chance that Russell in the Williams get in front of Leclerc?
Pretty decent

[truefan72]

The lack of party mode...as predicted... is affecting everyone else but Mercedes. Lol

[Nitrodaze]

A Renault podium seem possible at the moment. It would be good to see Ricciado on the poduim again.

[Nitrodaze]

A crazy podium may occur again with Mercedes appearing to have tyre problems.

[truefan72]

Ricciardo is up for a podium methinks. Although I begrudgingly have to admit Stroll is doing a great job

[Nitrodaze]

I think Albon would pass Stroll in abit

[truefan72]

Hmm those Renault engines look strong. I wonder if Mclaren will regret leaving them because they look dialed in with that chasis

[truefan72]

I think Albon would pass Stroll in abit
Yeah he is looking real good doing excellent with those softs

[Nitrodaze]

Hmm those Renault engines look strong. I wonder if Mclaren will regret leaving them because they look dialed in with that chasis

They can do better with Mercedes ponys

[Nitrodaze]

Ricciado in podium position now.

[truefan72]

At this pace Albon is going to pass stroll and Ricciardo for P3

[Nitrodaze]

At this pace Albon is going to pass stroll and Ricciardo for P3
Ricciado has slowed down somewhat

[Nitrodaze]

I think two stops for Mercedes, if Renault can stay out till the end, we may be up for an upset again. Mercedes worried about curbs and tyres, just what we need .

[Nitrodaze]

Nasty curbs, RED FLAGS!

[truefan72]

Glad Stroll is ok. That was a significant impact

[Nitrodaze]

Third race start Whoopie!

[Nitrodaze]

Glad Stroll is ok. That was a significant impact

Yeah, that Racing Point looked well mangled. Goes to show how tough the modern F1 cars are.

[truefan72]

Nasty curbs, RED FLAGS! yeah. Hmm Like I said those Marshall’s aren’t the most crafty. Ripping that racing point to shreds

[Nitrodaze]

yeah. Hmm Like I said those Marshall’s aren’t the most crafty. Ripping that racing point to shreds

I was laughing my head off when l saw that. Poking fire extinguishers into the engine and gearbox. I had to remind myself that was a multi-million dollar racing car

[Nitrodaze]

I think Bottas would jump in front at the start. Ricciado may get in the mix of the Mercedes with Albon possibly punishing him if he fails to pull it off. Bring on the start.

[Tazio]

Come on McCiardo!! :dork::talk::burp::kiss::bounce::facelick::smokin: :wave:

[Nitrodaze]

We have a Honda versus Renault engine race going on for third. Albon seem quicker than Ricciado, hence Renault have a fight on their hands it seems.

[truefan72]

Come on McCiardo!! :dork::talk::burp::kiss::bounce::facelick::smokin: :wave: so difficult to root for both Albon and Ricciardo to get a podium. This is giving me anxiety lol

[Nitrodaze]

Here we go

[Nitrodaze]

Ricciado helps out Hamilton

[truefan72]

Damn. I knew that red flag was going to hurt Russell

[Nitrodaze]

Oh well, Albon takes the podium position

[truefan72]

Wow wow wow Albon!

[Nitrodaze]

Albon looks faster than Bottas at the moment. Wow, can he steal 2nd as well?????

[truefan72]

I’m happy the TV feed is showing The Russell Hrosjewn fight. I think he can get Vettel

[Nitrodaze]

I’m happy the TV feed is showing The Russell Hrosjewn fight. I think he can get Vettel

Russell is effectively tenth when Kimi take his five seconds penalty

[Nitrodaze]

Russell is catching Vettel, we have a fight about to happen here.

[Nitrodaze]

Russell is effectively tenth when Kimi take his five seconds penalty

Russell seem just outside the points as Kimi appearss to have 6 sec between himself and Russell

[truefan72]

What a race!

[Nitrodaze]

Congratulations to Albon. He proves that, if Redbull do their jobs well for him, he would deliver.

[Nitrodaze]

What a race!

Yeah, What a race, What a track!

[truefan72]

Shame Kimi got a 5 sec penalty at the end.
Very happy for Albon, disappointed for Ricciardo but back to back p4’s is some decent driving.
I was entertained and would like to see a return to this track

[N4D13]

Personally I didn't enjoy the race that much as essentially the only thing that made it somewhat spicy was the crashes and then the restarts. In fact, as much as the standing grid restarts make it more entertaining, I'm not really sure that they're any fair. Not only do you get your entire buffer to the cars behind wiped out, but you also have a chance to lose a couple of places to the cars behind should you have a bad restart, which, let's face it, shouldn't be that close to begin with.

That said, I'm curious to find out what the race would have actually been like without all the stops, as tyre management would probably have caused a few dramas up and down the field.

[Tazio]

Good race, very entertaining!

[N. Jones]

That's it. I rate Hamilton on par and maybe better than Schumi. What an incredible drive to keep in front.
Great race by both Albon and Ricciardo. Albon finally up close with Verstappen and took his normal 3rd place.
Danny Ric was moving great all race and just didn't have enough power? Aero? to keep Albon behind.
Bottas will never be world champion.

[truefan72]

I wonder if there is a Thai F1 broadcast. It probably is as epic as the French one from last week

[Nitrodaze]

It was a crowded and physical race. The very wide track makes the circuit a delight to race and watch.

[truefan72]

Sochi next. That is a Bottas track. I think he wins that race

[Nitrodaze]

Sochi next. That is a Bottas track. I think he wins that race

He has to, he is not looking good at the moment. two consecutive ordinary race weekends soon get people talking.

[truefan72]

He has to, he is not looking good at the moment. two consecutive ordinary race weekends soon get people talking.

Yup

[Bagwan]

It's not likely politically correct to ask , but was there a breach of podium protocol committed when Lewis wore his "arrest the cops" t-shirt on the podium during the ceremony ?
I noticed he took it off for the pictures afterwards .

[Nitrodaze]

Russell seem just outside the points as Kimi appears to have 6 sec between himself and Russell

[CANCELLED]Congratulations to Russell for his first F1 point. He should buy Leclerc a pint because Leclerc passing Raikonen, sapped alot of time from the Fin, gifting Russell 10th place.

[Nitrodaze]

It's not likely politically correct to ask , but was there a breach of podium protocol committed when Lewis wore his "arrest the cops" t-shirt on the podium during the ceremony ?
I noticed he took it off for the pictures afterwards .

I doubt there is. But it looked very rebellious. I am sure he has got people talking in the paddock.

[Nitrodaze]

I hope Imola and Portamio produce the same outcome, as no driver on the current grid; maybe except Kimi, has driven any of these tracks.

Nurburgring would be epic l think. I am really looking forward to that one.

[denkimi]

That's it. I rate Hamilton on par and maybe better than Schumi. What an incredible drive to keep in front.
Indeed incredible. Driving a car that is 2 seconds a lap faster than any other and still winning.

[Bagwan]

I doubt there is. But it looked very rebellious. I am surer he has got people talking in the paddock.

A normally happier after a victory Toto was shown in the crowd not smiling while the anthems were playing .
And , a short while later he took it off .

I understand the message , but the podium has never been a place where any kind of political message has been allowed .

Lewis has done a lot to put this movement forward , and F1 responded with a moment for the cause before every race .

In my opinion , and , I believe , the rules , taking it onto the podium , a sacred place , is going too far .
It would look horrible to sanction him , but it deserves some attention , as it could set a dangerous precedent for future podia .

[gm99]

Congratulations to Russell for his first F1 point. He should buy Leclerc a pint because Leclerc passing Raikonen, sapped alot of time from the Fin, gifting Russell 10th place.

Ehm, Russell didn't score a point, he finished in 11th. Also, Leclerc didn't pass Kimi on track, he only finished ahead of him due to Kimi's penalty.

[Nitrodaze]

A normally happier after a victory Toto was shown in the crowd not smiling while the anthems were playing .
And , a short while later he took it off .

I understand the message , but the podium has never been a place where any kind of political message has been allowed .

Lewis has done a lot to put this movement forward , and F1 responded with a moment for the cause before every race .

In my opinion , and , I believe , the rules , taking it onto the podium , a sacred place , is going too far .
It would look horrible to sanction him , but it deserves some attention , as it could set a dangerous precedent for future podia .

In F1, l understand political statements has rarely taken place on the podium. But this is not unusual in sport. It may be hard to see this happening but the impetus for him to do this is a real and difficult problem. Below is a sky news video of a young lad sitting peacefully in police costody being attacked for no reason. He was not resistant or abusive. The police officer just launched into him.

https://news.sky.com/video/black-lives-matter-cop-under-investigation-after-hitting-black-teenager-12066151

You might find what Hamilton is doing problematic but the message that he is alerting us about is more problematic and real and happens regularly without sanction.

Besides, this is a peaceful call for action to clamp down on this problem. If we don't heed this peacefull call for action, then the next level may not be to anyones liking.

[The Black Knight]

In F1, l understand political statements has rarely taken place on the podium. But this is not unusual in sport. It may be hard to see this happening but the impetus for him to do this is a real and difficult problem. Below is a sky news video of a young lad sitting peacefully in police costody being attacked for no reason. He was not resistant or abusive. The police officer just launched into him.

https://news.sky.com/video/black-lives-matter-cop-under-investigation-after-hitting-black-teenager-12066151

You might find what Hamilton is doing problematic but the message that he is alerting us about is more problematic and real and happens regularly without sanction.

Besides, this is a peaceful call for action to clamp down on this problem. If we don't heed this peacefull call for action, then the next level may not be to anyones liking.

More white people are killed by police in America every year than black people.
The video here shows no context about what happened. Just like with scumbag Floyd, a man that once held a loaded gun to a pregnant woman’s stomach. The only reason this is gaining traction now is because the DNC is provoking it through their control of the media. These stories are always provided with the racist narrative to provoke emotional reactions from people and then when the real story is leaked the media ignores it, just like they ignored the leaked footage of George Floyd where the police officers clearly tried everything they could to peacefully put him in the car, or the autopsy results. Or more importantly the testimony that Bill Clinton visited Paedo island with Epstein and was there with two young girls from New York.

Nearly all the stories I’ve read like this turn out to be different to what is initially reported when provided the correct context, and when the truth finally does come out, I’ve never seen the media report on it to the extent that they correct the narrative. Don’t blindly believe what you read in the MSM, like Lewis does.

[Bagwan]

In F1, l understand political statements has rarely taken place on the podium. But this is not unusual in sport. It may be hard to see this happening but the impetus for him to do this is a real and difficult problem. Below is a sky news video of a young lad sitting peacefully in police costody being attacked for no reason. He was not resistant or abusive. The police officer just launched into him.

https://news.sky.com/video/black-lives-matter-cop-under-investigation-after-hitting-black-teenager-12066151

You might find what Hamilton is doing problematic but the message that he is alerting us about is more problematic and real and happens regularly without sanction.

Besides, this is a peaceful call for action to clamp down on this problem. If we don't heed this peacefull call for action, then the next level may not be to anyones liking.

There is a time and a place for protest .
They made a time and place for this protest .

As I understand it , political statements are absolutely not allowed on the podium , at least according to the previous Concorde agreement , and teams and countries have been fined heavily for it .

I made no comment about the actual statement .

[truefan72]

There is a time and a place for protest .
They made a time and place for this protest .

As I understand it , political statements are absolutely not allowed on the podium , at least according to the previous Concorde agreement , and teams and countries have been fined heavily for it .

I made no comment about the actual statement .

Protest by its very nature is meant to disrupt the status quo and provoke conversation.
The problem with designating "a time and place" for it, is that folks tune out and don't get to consider the issue.
ESPN used to show the moment of silence and campaign before the race, but lately they just cut to commercials and come back right as they are already in their cars, thus negating the impact.
One can react 3 ways to the valid protest that Hamilton is trying to raise awareness of.
1. Ask questions, try and understand why there is a need for this protest, and understand the real issue at hand
2. Be annoyed, complain about the inconvenience of having to be subjected to a troubling reality for many people who look just like him who are murdered/shot.abused week after week with no justice in sight...which prompted the entire protest in the first place.
3. Be triggered and completely misunderstand what is actually going on and actively try and be an antagonist or actually be heartless enough to consider themselves in line with that kind of oppression, systemic abuse and racism.

Everyone who cares and has a platform is doing their part to raise awareness and shake people out of the comfort of "it is not my problem, I just want to watch sports" mentality.
Naomi Osaka showed true conviction in her peaceful protest at the US Open and life as we know it hasn't ended, we are now just a bit more aware of the systemic abuses whether we acknowledge it or not, even if it makes certain people uncomfortable and unable to continue denying that these issues exist.
The NBA, NASCAR, IndyCar, NFL, EPL and many other leagues have significant accommodations to allow peaceful protest so seeing Hamilton wear a t-shirt that asks for a singular and particular action to be taken against a real travesty of justice should not be offensive.

I also think labeling it political is a mistake. This isn't a political issue for or against a particular political entity or system of government, it is a humanity issue and asking for justice in a particular incident. I honestly believe some folks would have an issue no matter what he did even if he had a t-shirt saying stop (or convict the perpetrators of) child-abuse, rape, slavery or murder.

I implore you not to be triggered but to actually use it as an opportunity to understand why there is a need to highlight that and confront why you feel that way about the situation. We are all mature enough to be able to watch a race and think about things as well. If you can get bombarded by commercials then you can deal with this too. At the very worst, just observe and be empathetic without the need to make it about your discomfort or protocols of decorum were broken (designed not to offend the commercial interests rather than any ethical reason)
See that a peaceful and respectful protest on a huge platform is a good thing and should be commended.
He still drives phenomenally and puts on a good show, displays ultimate professionalism and stays out of trouble. Is well paid and lives a good life but still feels compelled to help seek justice. So a few moments of dignified protest shouldn't bother you but be applauded. Its not political, it's humane.

And that is all I'll say about this.

[N. Jones]

Congratulations to Russell for his first F1 point. He should buy Leclerc a pint because Leclerc passing Raikonen, sapped alot of time from the Fin, gifting Russell 10th place.

Russel finished 11th.

[Bagwan]

Protest by its very nature is meant to disrupt the status quo and provoke conversation.
The problem with designating "a time and place" for it, is that folks tune out and don't get to consider the issue.
ESPN used to show the moment of silence and campaign before the race, but lately they just cut to commercials to the point where they sometimes come back right as they are about to take off on the warm up lap, thus negating the impact.
One can react 3 ways to the valid protest that Hamilton is trying to raise awareness of.
1. Ask questions, try and understand why there is a need for this protest, and understand the real issue at hand
2. Be annoyed, complain about the inconvenience of having to be subjected to a troubling reality for many people who look just like him who are murdered/shot.abused week after week with no justice in sight...which prompted the entire protest in the first place.
3. Be triggered and completely misunderstand what is actually going on and actively try and be an antagonist or actually be heartless enough to consider themselves in line with that kind of oppression, systemic abuse and racism.

Everyone who cares and has a platform is doing their part to raise awareness and shake people out of the comfort of "it is not my problem, I just want to watch sports" mentality.
Naomi Osaka showed true conviction in her peaceful protest at the US Open and life as we know it hasn't ended, we are now just a bit more aware of the systemic abuses whether we acknowledge it or not, even if it makes certain people uncomfortable and unable to continue denying that these issues exist.
The NBA, NASCAR, IndyCar, NFL, EPL and many other leagues have significant accommodations to allow peaceful protest so seeing Hamilton wear a t-shirt that asks for a singular and particular action to be taken against a real travesty of justice should not be offensive.

I also think labeling it political is a mistake. This isn't a political issue for or against a particular political entity or system of government, it is a humanity issue and asking for justice in a particular incident. I honestly believe some folks would have an issue no matter what he did even if he had a t-shirt saying stop (or convict the perpetrators of) child-abuse, rape, slavery or murder.

I implore you not to be triggered but to actually use it as an opportunity to understand why there is a need to highlight that and confront why you feel that way about the situation. We are all mature enough to be able to watch a race and think about things as well. If you can get bombarded by commercials then you can deal with this too. At the very worst, just observe and be empathetic without the need to make it about your discomfort or protocols of decorum were broken (designed not to offend the commercial interests rather than any ethical reason)
See that a peaceful and respectful protest on a huge platform is a good thing and should be commended.
He still drives phenomenally and puts on a good show, displays ultimate professionalism and stays out of trouble. Is well paid and lives a good life but still feels compelled to help seek justice. So a few moments of dignified protest shouldn't bother you but be applauded. Its not political, it's humane.

And that is all I'll say about this.

This is not whether the protest "bothered" anyone .
It is wholly about whether it is allowed in the regulations .

I believe it is not .

[Nitrodaze]

Ehm, Russell didn't score a point, he finished in 11th. Also, Leclerc didn't pass Kimi on track, he only finished ahead of him due to Kimi's penalty.

I was disappointed to find out later but could not log back in to amend my post. I thought he would be able to make it within Kimi's 5 sec penalty but somehow did not. Maybe next time eh!

[Nitrodaze]

This is not whether the protest "bothered" anyone .
It is wholly about whether it is allowed in the regulations .

I believe it is not .

Bagwan, you are coming across as someone who is nonchalant to this pressing issue of resolving racial brutality to people of colour. The regulations is not that important in the face of these humanity deficiencies. It doesn't affect you or anyone you know hence l understand you cannot relate to it on a personal level. But you must make allowance for it on a humanitarian level and place you or your children in that position. And imagine how you would feel. If can feel that it is alright for you to personally be subjected to racial brutality, then ok, you have a point. Otherwise, please just bear the moment as it takes you out of your comfort zone for only a short while.

[Nitrodaze]

More white people are killed by police in America every year than black people.
The video here shows no context about what happened. Just like with scumbag Floyd, a man that once held a loaded gun to a pregnant woman’s stomach. The only reason this is gaining traction now is because the DNC is provoking it through their control of the media. These stories are always provided with the racist narrative to provoke emotional reactions from people and then when the real story is leaked the media ignores it, just like they ignored the leaked footage of George Floyd where the police officers clearly tried everything they could to peacefully put him in the car, or the autopsy results. Or more importantly the testimony that Bill Clinton visited Paedo island with Epstein and was there with two young girls from New York.

Nearly all the stories I’ve read like this turn out to be different to what is initially reported when provided the correct context, and when the truth finally does come out, I’ve never seen the media report on it to the extent that they correct the narrative. Don’t blindly believe what you read in the MSM, like Lewis does.

I am not sure how to reply to your post. It is surprising to say the least. This is the sort of thing that Germans were saying to themselves while millions of Jews where being systematically gassed to death enmass. There were statements like "Rubbish, nothing of the sort is going on".

You demonstrate the very problem that people of colour are fighting against; politically correct racism. You would not called them Niggers to their face, you would just marginalize their issues and ignore their suffering. George Floyd did not have a knife in his hand as the Police officer kneeled on his windpipe, did he? WTF are talking about?

[Nitrodaze]

Protest by its very nature is meant to disrupt the status quo and provoke conversation.
The problem with designating "a time and place" for it, is that folks tune out and don't get to consider the issue.
ESPN used to show the moment of silence and campaign before the race, but lately they just cut to commercials and come back right as they are already in their cars, thus negating the impact.
One can react 3 ways to the valid protest that Hamilton is trying to raise awareness of.
1. Ask questions, try and understand why there is a need for this protest, and understand the real issue at hand
2. Be annoyed, complain about the inconvenience of having to be subjected to a troubling reality for many people who look just like him who are murdered/shot.abused week after week with no justice in sight...which prompted the entire protest in the first place.
3. Be triggered and completely misunderstand what is actually going on and actively try and be an antagonist or actually be heartless enough to consider themselves in line with that kind of oppression, systemic abuse and racism.

Everyone who cares and has a platform is doing their part to raise awareness and shake people out of the comfort of "it is not my problem, I just want to watch sports" mentality.
Naomi Osaka showed true conviction in her peaceful protest at the US Open and life as we know it hasn't ended, we are now just a bit more aware of the systemic abuses whether we acknowledge it or not, even if it makes certain people uncomfortable and unable to continue denying that these issues exist.
The NBA, NASCAR, IndyCar, NFL, EPL and many other leagues have significant accommodations to allow peaceful protest so seeing Hamilton wear a t-shirt that asks for a singular and particular action to be taken against a real travesty of justice should not be offensive.

I also think labeling it political is a mistake. This isn't a political issue for or against a particular political entity or system of government, it is a humanity issue and asking for justice in a particular incident. I honestly believe some folks would have an issue no matter what he did even if he had a t-shirt saying stop (or convict the perpetrators of) child-abuse, rape, slavery or murder.

I implore you not to be triggered but to actually use it as an opportunity to understand why there is a need to highlight that and confront why you feel that way about the situation. We are all mature enough to be able to watch a race and think about things as well. If you can get bombarded by commercials then you can deal with this too. At the very worst, just observe and be empathetic without the need to make it about your discomfort or protocols of decorum were broken (designed not to offend the commercial interests rather than any ethical reason)
See that a peaceful and respectful protest on a huge platform is a good thing and should be commended.
He still drives phenomenally and puts on a good show, displays ultimate professionalism and stays out of trouble. Is well paid and lives a good life but still feels compelled to help seek justice. So a few moments of dignified protest shouldn't bother you but be applauded. Its not political, it's humane.

And that is all I'll say about this.

What an eloquent piece you have written. I could not write it better for the sake of my anger at the surprising display of indifference to the difficulties facing a vast number of people that we share this planet with. That we share our nations, cities and streets with. It is just a surprising show of inhumane sentiment that demonstrates where the sort of mentalities that brought about human conflicts in antiquity originated from. With the information and higher knowledge available to us in this day and age, we should know better and care better for our fellow human beings, but many don't.

Hence, l commend you highly for your lovely post.

[Tazio]

This is not whether the protest "bothered" anyone .
It is wholly about whether it is allowed in the regulations .

I believe it is not .
You are correct Baggie!

the FIA has launched an investigation into Hamilton's shirt. Drivers and teams are not allowed to make political statements on the circuit. If the text can indeed be seen as a political statement, the 35-year-old Briton will in all likelihood receive a fine.
I think "The Boss" knew he would likely get a fine and thought that the action was good on balance.

(https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/68245/international-media-that-resulted-in-a-furious-verstappen-.html?campname=highlighted-content&camplink=onderaan)


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[Bagwan]

Bagwan, you are coming across as someone who is nonchalant to this pressing issue of resolving racial brutality to people of colour. The regulations is not that important in the face of these humanity deficiencies. It doesn't affect you or anyone you know hence l understand you cannot relate to it on a personal level. But you must make allowance for it on a humanitarian level and place you or your children in that position. And imagine how you would feel. If can feel that it is alright for you to personally be subjected to racial brutality, then ok, you have a point. Otherwise, please just bear the moment as it takes you out of your comfort zone for only a short while.

You are making assumptions about me that are absolutely baseless .
If you read the post you quoted again , perhaps you'll see that I , clearly , made no comment on his words , but only on the regulations .

You , Nitrodaze , are coming across as someone who is calling me out as a racist .

The FIA is investigating the action , so we'll see if they will regard it as a breach of podium protocol or not .

[Bagwan]

You are correct Baggie!

I think "The Boss" knew he would likely get a fine and thought that the action was good on balance.

(https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/68245/international-media-that-resulted-in-a-furious-verstappen-.html?campname=highlighted-content&camplink=onderaan)


Skip



You could be right , Taz , but Toto's face maybe changed his mind .
The pictures afterward had no protest shirt in them .

[Tazio]

:stareup: I think he already made his point! :idea: ;)

[Bagwan]

:stareup: I think he already made his point! :idea: ;)

But , the point is , that he had already made his point plainly and clearly in the designated part of the program .

It's a pointy issue .

[Tazio]

Ok................. He punctuated his point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :dork: :sailor: :wave:!!!!!!!!!

[truefan72]

What an eloquent piece you have written. I could not write it better for the sake of my anger at the surprising display of indifference to the difficulties facing a vast number of people that we share this planet with. That we share our nations, cities and streets with. It is just a surprising show of inhumane sentiment that demonstrates where the sort of mentalities that bring about human conflicts in antiquity originate from. With the information and higher knowledge available to us in this day and age, we should know better and care better for our fellow human beings, but many don't.

Hence, l commend you highly for your lovely post.

Thank you.
I just calmed myself down and wrote that in hopes to enlighten a few around here.
some of our forum members, as you rightfully pointed out, seem more than willing to be dismissive or worse yet buy into some weird and disturbing narrative of things, which, frankly i have no more time for anymore. a few have gotten on my ignore list as it doesn't seem worth my time to engage them anymore, but a few others, like Bagwan, who i respect, am more than willing to have a civil discussion. I understand his query as to regs, and just wanted to make the point about protest in general and our reactions. Even if the FIA levy a fine, it is still worth it and definitely worth the attention it has brought. He would gladly pay whatever fine they impose...if they are shortsighted and myopic enough to impose one, instantly become the villains in this story and a looming PR disaster, then I'm sure mercedes will have his back as well as millions of others. Let the FIA reveal what Ferrari did or did not do, before they go after Hamilton for any kind of breach of decorum. Who exactly did he offend? which political party, government, country, or ethnicity did he besmirch? surely not the police, because if they are offended by the call to arrest officers who broke into the wrong house and gunned down a woman in her bed for an alleged "drug raid" then proceed to lie, obfuscate and protect those killers, then those folks should not be surprised that the public is outraged and refuse to let it go.

But back to Racing hopefully and perhaps the 2 week break will do all of us some good, and allow others to now take the time to find out why the protest happened.
:)

[truefan72]

Ok................. He punctuated his point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :dork: :sailor: :wave:!!!!!!!!!

Yup!
and Autosport gets it. Read point #9
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/152146/10-things-we-learned-from-the-2020-tuscan-grand-prix

[Bagwan]

Yup!
and Autosport gets it. Read point #9
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/152146/10-things-we-learned-from-the-2020-tuscan-grand-prix

All they said was that he remains the most vocal and most visible supporter of the BLM movement .
That is true , but has no bearing on whether he is allowed to display his message on the podium .

If you accepted that Hamilton was sanctioned for entering pit lane when it was closed last race because it was a clear rule broken , then why wouldn't you accept him being sanctioned for breaching podium protocol if it's a clear rule ?
The only thing that could save the situation for all involved is to deem whether it is a political message or not , as neither political nor religious messages are allowed .
But , it should be made clear that , unless the rules are changed , it shouldn't happen .

To be honest , Mr fan , I found the act to be somewhat disrespectful , as opposed to inspiring .
They have dedicated a portion of the program specifically for a display of support .
They have shown a well-produced promo multiple times during each airing specifically dedicated to the cause .
There are many signs of support all around the paddock from the FIA and all the teams .

It is far more publicity and respect for the cause than I expected from the FIA and F1 , and they should be commended .
And , so should Lewis .
Without him , most of it wouldn't have occurred .

When it is simply not allowed , the "goodness" of the message doesn't matter .

[truefan72]

All they said was that he remains the most vocal and most visible supporter of the BLM movement .
That is true , but has no bearing on whether he is allowed to display his message on the podium .

If you accepted that Hamilton was sanctioned for entering pit lane when it was closed last race because it was a clear rule broken , then why wouldn't you accept him being sanctioned for breaching podium protocol if it's a clear rule ?
The only thing that could save the situation for all involved is to deem whether it is a political message or not , as neither political nor religious messages are allowed .
But , it should be made clear that , unless the rules are changed , it shouldn't happen .

To be honest , Mr fan , I found the act to be somewhat disrespectful , as opposed to inspiring .
They have dedicated a portion of the program specifically for a display of support .
They have shown a well-produced promo multiple times during each airing specifically dedicated to the cause .
There are many signs of support all around the paddock from the FIA and all the teams .

It is far more publicity and respect for the cause than I expected from the FIA and F1 , and they should be commended .
And , so should Lewis .
Without him , most of it wouldn't have occurred .


Bagwan, i still don't think you get it.
I am not concerned if it is "allowed or not" and am fine with whatever punishment they want to hand out as it is worth it IMO over some regulation rule breach.
And I believe that is a calculation Hamilton quite willing fully made. Despite it being not even something for anyone to get triggered by.

Also as to the article here is a snippet of #9

"Taylor's killing by Kentucky police officers in March has become one of the most high-profile cases of police brutality amid the anti-racism protests around the world in recent months.

Hamilton wore a shirt bearing her name on the grid, and put it back on for the podium ceremony, only removing it for the champagne celebration. Taylor's face was on the rear of the t-shirt, with Hamilton turning around at the end of the national anthem for it to be picked up in full. Hamilton also ended his interview after his win by saying: "Justice for Breonna Taylor."

The gammons spouting "keep politics out of sport!" were infuriated by such a show from Hamilton, making their opposition clear on social media. But for those of us in touch with reality and the issues facing the world right now, it was another reminder from Hamilton of how he wants to use his platform and how powerful it can be."

If you find that disrespectful, then the question is to who? and why does it bother you?
Finally your last statement is actually the most troubling


When it is simply not allowed , the "goodness" of the message doesn't matter.
dude, if we went by that way of thinking, nothing would have ever changed in the entirety of history.
Many things were not allowed until they were changed due to protest and the hard work of civil disobedience.
Discrimination in all its ugly forms all over the world has been a bedrock of civilization.
There was a time when Black people were not allowed to be free and held in bondage, so that was ok?
Or not allowed to play in Major League Baseball
Or women not allowed to vote
or girls not allowed to choose to be married off as child
heck, the Irish in this country weren't allowed to apply for certain jobs in the early 20th century
Jews were not allowed any rights in 1940's Germany
and so on and so on...
What are you saying? that conformity even in the face of injustice is ok because "those are the rules?"
progress should not wait for society, instead society is always forced to catch up to progress.
That last statement really is a bit problematic
oh well

Ok. lol my final word on the matter

lets get back to a discussion on the safety car issues, which i think deserve way more of a discussion and opinions than a peaceful protest at the end of the race
can we agree on that? :)
`

[Bagwan]

Bagwan, i still don't think you get it.
I am not concerned if it is "allowed or not" and am fine with whatever punishment they want to hand out as it is worth it IMO over some regulation rule breach.
And I believe that is a calculation Hamilton quite willing fully made. Despite it being not even something for anyone to get triggered by.

Also as to the article here is a snippet of #9

"Taylor's killing by Kentucky police officers in March has become one of the most high-profile cases of police brutality amid the anti-racism protests around the world in recent months.

Hamilton wore a shirt bearing her name on the grid, and put it back on for the podium ceremony, only removing it for the champagne celebration. Taylor's face was on the rear of the t-shirt, with Hamilton turning around at the end of the national anthem for it to be picked up in full. Hamilton also ended his interview after his win by saying: "Justice for Breonna Taylor."

The gammons spouting "keep politics out of sport!" were infuriated by such a show from Hamilton, making their opposition clear on social media. But for those of us in touch with reality and the issues facing the world right now, it was another reminder from Hamilton of how he wants to use his platform and how powerful it can be."

If you find that disrespectful, then the question is to who? and why does it bother you?
Finally your last statement is actually the most troubling


dude, if we went by that way of thinking, nothing would have ever changed in the entirety of history.
Many things were not allowed until they were changed due to protest and the hard work of civil disobedience.
Discrimination in all its ugly forms all over the world has been a bedrock of civilization.
There was a time when Black people were not allowed to be free and held in bondage, so that was ok?
Or not allowed to play in Major League Baseball
Or women not allowed to vote
or girls not allowed to choose to be married off as child
heck, the Irish in this country weren't allowed to apply for certain jobs in the early 20th century
Jews were not allowed any rights in 1940's Germany
and so on and so on...
What are you saying? that conformity even in the face of injustice is ok because "those are the rules?"
progress should not wait for society, instead society is always forced to catch up to progress.
That last statement really is a bit problematic
oh well

Ok. lol my final word on the matter

lets get back to a discussion on the safety car issues, which i think deserve way more of a discussion and opinions than a peaceful protest at the end of the race
can we agree on that? :)
`

At the extreme risk of having to endure another lecture , I will try to make my point .
If he broke the rules , they need to look at sanction .

If the sanction was worth it , then so be it .

The podium in F1 , for me , has always appeared a sacred protected place , which lauds only those who get to stand upon it .
Had they not gone to great lengths to appease his wishes , and not created a specific forum within the program , I might certainly have been more sympathetic in this case .

Even if he said he forgot to take it off for the podium ceremony I would be happier about it .




It's not about the message .

[Nitrodaze]

You are making assumptions about me that are absolutely baseless .
If you read the post you quoted again , perhaps you'll see that I , clearly , made no comment on his words , but only on the regulations .

You , Nitrodaze , are coming across as someone who is calling me out as a racist .

The FIA is investigating the action , so we'll see if they will regard it as a breach of podium protocol or not .

Sorry Baggie, if i thought you were a racist, l would call you one plainly. So that is not my intention. I simply find that you were noticeably outside your comfort zone enough to not care about the issue. You have not said anything that come across as racist, neighter have l implied you were.

[Nitrodaze]

All they said was that he remains the most vocal and most visible supporter of the BLM movement .
That is true , but has no bearing on whether he is allowed to display his message on the podium .

If you accepted that Hamilton was sanctioned for entering pit lane when it was closed last race because it was a clear rule broken , then why wouldn't you accept him being sanctioned for breaching podium protocol if it's a clear rule ?
The only thing that could save the situation for all involved is to deem whether it is a political message or not , as neither political nor religious messages are allowed .
But , it should be made clear that , unless the rules are changed , it shouldn't happen .

To be honest , Mr fan , I found the act to be somewhat disrespectful , as opposed to inspiring .
They have dedicated a portion of the program specifically for a display of support .
They have shown a well-produced promo multiple times during each airing specifically dedicated to the cause .
There are many signs of support all around the paddock from the FIA and all the teams .

It is far more publicity and respect for the cause than I expected from the FIA and F1 , and they should be commended .
And , so should Lewis .
Without him , most of it wouldn't have occurred .

When it is simply not allowed , the "goodness" of the message doesn't matter .

Sorry, l disagree.
Any platform that has good exposure is fair game for vocalizing any fight against inhumane treatment of any people. It is not disrespectful at all. F1 is an international sport enjoyed by many people on the planet. It is one of the ideal platform for bringing attention to any inhumanity going on in the world. Hence should be seen as a respect rather than a disrespect.

To stiffle such expressions is to stiffle the voices of the victims of inhumane treatment. These things are disturbing to behold, very unsettling to see and disconcerting to discover the facts that lie behind the jesture.

The world responded too late going to the aid of the Jews. And millions of souls, including brilliant academics, musicians and more were wasted in gas chambers. We have an opportunity to respond more quickly, so we should, even when we are inconvinienced or taken outside our comfort zones by the peaceful call for action.

[truefan72]

Sorry, l disagree.
Any platform that has good exposure is fair game for vocalizing any fight against inhumane treatment of any people. It is not disrespectful at all. F1 is an international sport enjoyed by many people on the planet. It is one of the ideal platform for bringing attention to any inhumanity going on in the world. Hence should be seen as a respect rather than a disrespect.

To stiffle such expressions is to stiffle the voices of the victims of inhumane treatment. These things are disturbing to behold, very unsettling to see and disconcerting to discover the facts that lie behind the jesture.

The world responded too late going to the aid of the Jews. And millions of souls, including brilliant academics, musicians and more were wasted in gas chambers. We have an opportunity to respond more quickly, so we should, even when we are inconvinienced or taken outside our comfort zones by the peaceful call for action.

Well said!

[truefan72]

now about the restart procedures.
I admit that I incorrectly assigned blame to Bottas for the calamity yesterday, although I later deferred to Anthony Davidson's spot on analysis.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/152140/the-key-questions-about-the-mugello-f1-restart-crash
In reading the autopsort article, it seems very clear that the drivers at the back were totally at fault and were even briefed in the drivers meeting about the right process. Add to that the F3 guys had no problem doing it, it seems quite clear it comes down to the drivers at the back and in general who complained about gaps, when the lights went out etc.
In reading Masi's interview on the matter this is very clear and the drivers only have themselves to blame.
No need to change any procedures etc. just stubborn drivers mentality towards the restart.

more good analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEKH_LPqjJ8

[The Black Knight]

I am not sure how to reply to your post. It is surprising to say the least. This is the sort of thing that Germans were saying to themselves while millions of Jews where being systematically gassed to death enmass. There were statements like "Rubbish, nothing of the sort is going on".

You demonstrate the very problem that people of colour are fighting against; politically correct racism. You would not called them Niggers to their face, you would just marginalize their issues and ignore their suffering. George Floyd did not have a knife in his hand as the Police officer kneeled on his windpipe, did he? WTF are talking about?

George Floyds death, whilst tragic, was not intentional. If you resist arrest the Police must use force. The knee on the neck was as per their training, they did everything by the book and in death he is just being used as a pawn. I’d suggest you watch the full footage and you’ll see what I mean.

And as for Hamilton, I suspect he’ll get away with a warning this time, but he should not be allowed break the rules a second time without severe consequences.

[Bagwan]

Sorry, l disagree.
Any platform that has good exposure is fair game for vocalizing any fight against inhumane treatment of any people. It is not disrespectful at all. F1 is an international sport enjoyed by many people on the planet. It is one of the ideal platform for bringing attention to any inhumanity going on in the world. Hence should be seen as a respect rather than a disrespect.

To stiffle such expressions is to stiffle the voices of the victims of inhumane treatment. These things are disturbing to behold, very unsettling to see and disconcerting to discover the facts that lie behind the jesture.

The world responded too late going to the aid of the Jews. And millions of souls, including brilliant academics, musicians and more were wasted in gas chambers. We have an opportunity to respond more quickly, so we should, even when we are inconvinienced or taken outside our comfort zones by the peaceful call for action.

I am frankly sick to death of being lectured about this .

Perhaps you disagree with the rule that says he can't do what he did .
It would make more sense for you to say so .

It would make more sense than assuming I need a lecture on racism when you just noted in a previous post that you don't consider me a racist .

[N. Jones]

George Floyds death, whilst tragic, was not intentional. If you resist arrest the Police must use force. The knee on the neck was as per their training, they did everything by the book and in death he is just being used as a pawn. I’d suggest you watch the full footage and you’ll see what I mean.


Except lift off when the man was unable to breathe.

[The Black Knight]

Except lift off when the man was unable to breathe.

Except he was claiming he couldn’t breathe for 6 minutes before he was ever on the ground.

[Nitrodaze]

George Floyds death, whilst tragic, was not intentional. If you resist arrest the Police must use force. The knee on the neck was as per their training, they did everything by the book and in death he is just being used as a pawn. I’d suggest you watch the full footage and you’ll see what I mean.


The law around arrest anywhere on the planet only gives police officers the right to use reasonable force to subdue the suspect. It does not make allowances for excessive force that results in the death of the suspect. So please don't talk about stuff you know nothing about. I suppose you would enjoy it, if you are arrested with your windpipe forceably blocked by the knees of the arresting officer.

If the situation was reversed, say a black officer arresting a white man of Floyd exact profile, you would have a very different opinion about it. He would be instantly arrested and charged for murder.

[Nitrodaze]

Except he was claiming he couldn’t breathe for 6 minutes before he was ever on the ground.

Bollocks, the video clearly showed the poor man pleading for his life as he repeatedly claimed that he could not breath while the knee of the police officer was firmly on his neck.

YOU SIMPLY DON'T CARE DO YOU! It is them so what is it to you? So you distort the facts to find a way to make this alright for you.

[Nitrodaze]

I am frankly sick to death of being lectured about this .

Perhaps you disagree with the rule that says he can't do what he did .
It would make more sense for you to say so .

It would make more sense than assuming I need a lecture on racism when you just noted in a previous post that you don't consider me a racist .

Sorry l irritate you on this. But, one has to also state why it is important that this rule should be relaxed for these sort of circumstances. To simply say l disagree is not enough.

[Nitrodaze]

I think we should concentrate our discussions on the racing, we have said enough about this. Some of us care passionately about what Hamilton is peacefully telling us about. Some of us are clearly irritated by it. Others simply don't care much for the issues of black people. It is what it is!

[Nitrodaze]

Albon was mugged twice on his way to podium positions by Hamilton. But this time round without Hamilton in close proximity, he secured his first F1 podium, slotting into where Verstapenn would typically have stood had he completed the race. But the lovely story is, Hamilton met Albon when he was 11 years old, just after he became a world champion for the first time in 2009. And at this race weekend he shares a podium with him 12 years on.

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/BepBf74jEFcYJ2HyZQtrug/https/media.fyre.co/150AyXYLTdVB1cYPmnFg_Hamilton_Albon.jpg
{Courtesy Sky sports}

How wonderful is that eh!

[The Black Knight]

Bollocks, the video clearly showed the poor man pleading for his life as he repeatedly claimed that he could not breath while the knee of the police officer was firmly on his neck.

YOU SIMPLY DON'T CARE DO YOU! It is them so what is it to you? So you distort the facts to find a way to make this alright for you.

Again I repeat watch ALL the footage not just the last part.

[The Black Knight]

The law around arrest anywhere on the planet only gives police officers the right to use reasonable force to subdue the suspect. It does not make allowances for excessive force that results in the death of the suspect. So please don't talk about stuff you know nothing about. I suppose you would enjoy it, if you are arrested with your windpipe forceably blocked by the knees of the arresting officer.

If the situation was reversed, say a black officer arresting a white man of Floyd exact profile, you would have a very different opinion about it. He would be instantly arrested and charged for murder.

Everything the police did was by the book. The colour of his skin is irrelevant to me because as soon you invoke the race card you invoke privilege. You’re just caught up in the emotion of it. I’m not. I follow the evidence I am presented with and am not willing to blindly follow a clearly biased mainstream media.

[Bagwan]

Sorry l irritate you on this. But, one has to also state why it is important that this rule should be relaxed for these sort of circumstances. To simply say l disagree is not enough.

Now you have heard me , and I know because you responded to what I wrote .
It was a simple question of whether he broke a rule , and you told me it should be relaxed .

This morning we have word from the FIA that it won't be investigated , but rather , the governing body will issue a statement that is more specific as to what can be worn in the podium ceremony .


So , here's the story of this thread :
I asked a question about a rule and you guys went off on a racism rant until you said we should talk about racing instead of racism .
Then , you answered my question .

You get why I was irritated ?

[zako85]

Wait a sec, didn't the whiners after the extra-long Canadian GP of 2011 introduce a new rule that a Formula 1 race must end two hours after the start, point? Why was the Tuscan GP allowed to run for 140 minutes (add or subtract a few)?

[Nitrodaze]

Wait a sec, didn't the whiners after the extra-long Canadian GP of 2011 introduce a new rule that a Formula 1 race must end two hours after the start, point? Why was the Tuscan GP allowed to run for 140 minutes (add or subtract a few)?

Fair point, but l would have liked the race to continue for even a bit more longer. What a race?

[Nitrodaze]

Now you have heard me , and I know because you responded to what I wrote .
It was a simple question of whether he broke a rule , and you told me it should be relaxed .

This morning we have word from the FIA that it won't be investigated , but rather , the governing body will issue a statement that is more specific as to what can be worn in the podium ceremony .


So , here's the story of this thread :
I asked a question about a rule and you guys went off on a racism rant until you said we should talk about racing instead of racism .
Then , you answered my question .

You get why I was irritated ?

Well, the FIA and F1 management decision on this was the correct one. And they have approached it in a meassured way; without emotions and the right level of sensitivity to the issue in question. And l commend them for it. I suppose your question has been answered.

[Nitrodaze]

Everything the police did was by the book. The colour of his skin is irrelevant to me because as soon you invoke the race card you invoke privilege. You’re just caught up in the emotion of it. I’m not. I follow the evidence I am presented with and am not willing to blindly follow a clearly biased mainstream media.

I am sorry buddy, l have no further comment to make on this subject. I am happy to chat with you until the cows come home on anything to do with actual racing.

[The Black Knight]

Wait a sec, didn't the whiners after the extra-long Canadian GP of 2011 introduce a new rule that a Formula 1 race must end two hours after the start, point? Why was the Tuscan GP allowed to run for 140 minutes (add or subtract a few)?

No, it’s a two hour race limit of racing action. The clock stops when the race stops. It’s a 4 hour race limit after lights out regardless of whether the race is finished or not.

[The Black Knight]

I am sorry buddy, l have no further comment to make on this subject. I am happy to chat with you until the cows come home on anything to do with actual racing.

No worries man!

[The Black Knight]

Well, the FIA and F1 management decision on this was the correct one. And they have approached it in a meassured way; without emotions and the right level of sensitivity to the issue in question. And l commend them for it. I suppose your question has been answered.

I think they have realised there could be potential backlash were they to punish him now. They are issuing clearer guidelines- if he breaks them then he has only himself to blame then. Effectively they are saying, in a roundabout way, one more strike and you’re going to be punished.

[Big Ben]

Horrible sneaky people, going about rules and stuff to attack this wonderful man. I bet you didn't even knee for anything today. Since I gave up my weaked ways I knee for everything. Tonight, after I finish my bucket of chicken wings I'm taking a knee for the hungry children of the world.

[Nitrodaze]

I think they have realised there could be potential backlash were they to punish him now. They are issuing clearer guidelines- if he breaks them then he has only himself to blame then. Effectively they are saying, in a roundabout way, one more strike and you’re going to be punished.

For completion, Breonna Taylor's family has been awarded $12 Million in settlement by the City of Louisville Kenturky. Just to give you a sense of the importance of this situation in monetary terms.

[Nitrodaze]

I wonder what is happening in Ferrari right now. They had Arrivabene that brought Ferrari to the brink of winning a championship sacked and since then things has progressively gone down hill for them. They are now more or less back to where they were when Arrivabene took the helm all those years ago. So what now?

[The Black Knight]

For completion, Breonna Taylor's family has been awarded $12 Million in settlement by the City of Louisville Kenturky. Just to give you a sense of the importance of this situation in monetary terms.

For full completion, what happened to Breonna was horrendous. I have an apartment in NY and, a couple of years back, a man collapsed in front of his apartment building just down the road from me. His wife called the ambulance and police arrived, they saw the her trying to give CPR to him, and when she looked up they shot both her and him, zero provocation and both died as a result of their wounds. None of this was covered by the media because they were white. Not a peep. They had a no knock warrant for Breonna Taylor’s apartment and shot because Kenneth Walker shot at them. They had zero reason to shoot at this poor couple.

Both deaths are tragic, but the media sensationalise one, not the other. Who has the privilege?

[Nitrodaze]

For full completion, what happened to Breonna was horrendous. I have an apartment in NY and, a couple of years back, a man collapsed in front of his apartment building just down the road from me. His wife called the ambulance and police arrived, they saw the her trying to give CPR to him, and when she looked up they shot both her and him, zero provocation and both died as a result of their wounds. None of this was covered by the media because they were white. Not a peep. They had a no knock warrant for Breonna Taylor’s apartment and shot because Kenneth Walker shot at them. They had zero reason to shoot at this poor couple.

Both deaths are tragic, but the media sensationalise one, not the other. Who has the privilege?

Sorry, l find it hard to believe the police would turn up and just shoot a man already down and recieving medical aid from a woman you claim to be his wife. And she also shot by the police. There is more to this story, espionage gone wrong etc.

If it didn't make the news, if may be a classified incident. Especially with both being caucasians. There is no biase here, though you seem keen to manufacture one. This sort of thing is the stuff the media live for. They would lap it up and sensationalize it by running it morning, day and night for as long as they can get anyone to listen to it. So get your facts straight buddy.

[The Black Knight]

Sorry, l find it hard to believe the police would turn up and just shoot a man already down and recieving medical aid from a woman you claim to be his wife. And she also shot by the police. There is more to this story, espionage gone wrong etc.

If it didn't make the news, if may be a classified incident. Especially with both being caucasians. There is no biase here, though you seem keen to manufacture one. This sort of thing is the stuff the media live for. They would lap it up and sensationalize it by running it morning, day and night for as long as they can get anyone to listen to it. So get your facts straight buddy.

My facts are straight. You simply don’t want to believe it because then you’d have to admit everything being spun to you in the media isn’t true and walls would come crumbling down. I’ve heard of similar incidents around NY with blacks and whites. The media only live for stories that play to the poor black man victim narrative.

It took CNN Around 5 days to report one article on Cannon Hinnant and when they did they mentioned nothing about the perpetrators skin colour as they always do when its a white man. Do you think it would have been 5 days had a white man shot a black kid in his back yard? No, it would have been on the landing page, main evening news quicker than your fart dissipates.

The police aren’t racist, the media are. They want to pit blacks against whites, painting whites as the bad men and blacks as the victims. The purpose of which is to cause division.

[Nitrodaze]

My facts are straight. You simply don’t want to believe it because then you’d have to admit everything being spun to you in the media isn’t true and walls would come crumbling down. I’ve heard of similar incidents around NY with blacks and whites. The media only live for stories that play to the poor black man victim narrative.

It took CNN Around 5 days to report one article on Cannon Hinnant and when they did they mentioned nothing about the perpetrators skin colour as they always do when its a white man. Do you think it would have been 5 days had a white man shot a black kid in his back yard? No, it would have been on the landing page, main evening news quicker than your fart dissipates.

The police aren’t racist, the media are. They want to pit blacks against whites, painting whites as the bad men and blacks as the victims. The purpose of which is to cause division.

You provide very little evidence yet you are happy to present a case for racism against a caucasian couple by the media. WTH give it a rest mate!

[truefan72]

You provide very little evidence yet you are happy to present a case for racism against a caucasian couple by the media. WTH give it a rest mate!

there is no point. I suggest adding some folks to the ignore list like i do. and it helps not having to deal with certain things.
Its one thing to have a disagreement over protocol and quite another to be espousing pseduo white nationalistic rhetoric.
So why bother trying to have a dialogue with someone who clearly subscribes to those views and alternate facts.
I for one, don't need that aggravation, so let them be free to post what they want and thankfully you don't have to see it.

[truefan72]

I wonder what is happening in Ferrari right now. They had Arrivabene that brought Ferrari to the brink of winning a championship sacked and since then things has progressively gone down hill for them. They are now more or less back to where they were when Arrivabene took the helm all those years ago. So what now?

I dunno. It's not like they are going to do a mea culpa and bring him back.
Arrivabene was more of a steward of the team than integral to any particular direction, but sometimes that is a wiser way to manage a big team like Ferrari.
And even on his worst days, they were fighting for wins and podiums.
Trust your managers, think more broadly about all departments and most importantly...don't try and friggin cheat (at least in not such a blatant matter)
This season, and going all the way back to the decision to spike theri engines has been an unmitigated disaster for Ferrari, no two ways about it.
Arrivabene was fired for not being able to win aWDC or WCC, meanwhile Binotto is still employed with a car that, in race trim, is barely ahead of a williams.
Lets not forget that Binotto was instrumental in ousting Arrivabene, and actively looking to take command of the team, and he has presided over a steep and steady decline.
He has installed "his people" in place and this is the end result.
To be honest, I'm surprised he wasn't sacked right after Mugello. Perhaps in due part to nobody willing to take over and be accounted as leading the team during this wretched season,knowing full well that no matter what. Ferrari will probably clean house at season's end.
I don't expect Binotto back for 2021.
This will give the new principal time to sort out the mess and get them ready for 2022.

[The Black Knight]

You provide very little evidence yet you are happy to present a case for racism against a caucasian couple by the media. WTH give it a rest mate!

Mate the evidence is everywhere everytime you turn on the news. You only have to open your eyes to see it.

[Nitrodaze]

I dunno. It's not like they are going to do a mea culpa and bring him back.
Arrivabene was more of a steward of the team than integral to any particular direction, but sometimes that is a wiser way to manage a big team like Ferrari.
And even on his worst days, they were fighting for wins and podiums.
Trust your managers, think more broadly about all departments and most importantly...don't try and friggin cheat (at least in not such a blatant matter)
This season, and going all the way back to the decision to spike theri engines has been an unmitigated disaster for Ferrari, no two ways about it.
Arrivabene was fired for not being able to win aWDC or WCC, meanwhile Binotto is still employed with a car that, in race trim, is barely ahead of a williams.
Lets not forget that Binotto was instrumental in ousting Arrivabene, and actively looking to take command of the team, and he has presided over a steep and steady decline.
He has installed "his people" in place and this is the end result.
To be honest, I'm surprised he wasn't sacked right after Mugello. Perhaps in due part to nobody willing to take over and be accounted as leading the team during this wretched season,knowing full well that no matter what. Ferrari will probably clean house at season's end.
I don't expect Binotto back for 2021.
This will give the new principal time to sort out the mess and get them ready for 2022.

Well they have to do something. Because it seems the team is being run to the ground at the mo. Binotto has to owns this problem.

[Nitrodaze]

Albon was mugged twice on his way to podium positions by Hamilton. But this time round without Hamilton in close proximity, he secured his first F1 podium, slotting into where Verstapenn would typically have stood had he completed the race. But the lovely story is, Hamilton met Albon when he was 11 years old, just after he became a world champion for the first time in 2009. And at this race weekend he shares a podium with him 12 years on.

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/BepBf74jEFcYJ2HyZQtrug/https/media.fyre.co/150AyXYLTdVB1cYPmnFg_Hamilton_Albon.jpg
{Courtesy Sky sports}

How wonderful is that eh!

It is interesting how a small comment by Hamilton about the Redbull pair of drivers resulted in an improved performance on the Albon side of the garage. At these last two races, we see confirmation that Redbull have such exellent drivers in their stable with limited availbility of senior drive to go round them.

[gm99]

It is interesting how a small comment by Hamilton about the Redbull pair of drivers resulted in an improved performance on the Albon side of the garage.

If a few words from Hamilton achieved a rise in performance by Albon and his crew, maybe he should next do a full interview about Vettel and Ferrari ;)

[truefan72]

If a few words from Hamilton achieved a rise in performance by Albon and his crew, maybe he should next do a full interview about Vettel and Ferrari ;)

LOL too funny.
Or Vettel's race strategist

[Nitrodaze]

LOL too funny.
Or Vettel's race strategist

I am sure it was a coincidence that Hamilton comments about Verstapenn not having a wingman to assist him in effectively taking the fight to Mercedes was followed by strong showing by Albon. A comment that Redbull reacted to aggressively by pointing out the fact that Hamilton was responsible for depriving Albon well deserved podium places. Albon himself showed signs of feeling critisized.

The following races after Hamilton's comment, Albon qualified 6th and then 4th, and secured a podium position. I think Hamilton's comment was just what Albon and his engineers needed to hear.

By the way Vettel and Ferrari are a lost cause this season.

[Nitrodaze]

I am sure it was a coincidence that Hamilton comments about Verstapenn not having a wingman to assist him in effectively taking the fight to Mercedes was followed by strong showing by Albon. A comment that Redbull reacted to aggressively by pointing out the fact that Hamilton was responsible for depriving Albon well deserved podium places. Albon himself showed signs of feeling critisized.

The following races after Hamilton's comment, Albon qualified 6th and then 4th, and secured a podium position. I think Hamilton's comment was just what Albon and his engineers needed to hear.

By the way Vettel and Ferrari are a lost cause this season.

What a different race it may have been if Verstapenn did not have that engine problem. He had a better start than Hamilton and was almost level with him. From that point, l envisaged a drag race down the straight but Verstapenn fizzles out and drifted backwards.
With the number of restarts thatb occured, who was to say Verstapeen may not have stolen the win from Mercedes. That said, hindsight is a wonderful thing eh.

[airshifter]

I managed to avoid all spoilers, and just watched the race split between yesterday and tonight.

Crazy race all around. With all the offs and big crashes, it made it interesting, and everyone came out ok. It speaks volumes that nobody was seriously injured in all that chaos, and I'm glad for that.

As for the track itself, without the red flags and such, it might be a borefest. I do actually like the track, but like many others, the only real opportunities for passes are essentially the DRS zones. We need to get back to tracks that have more passing potential.

I'm still not sure whether to be gutted for Ricciardo or thrilled for Albon. Being Daniel has had his share of podiums, I guess I'm glad that this time Albon managed to get up on the podium. Hopefully it will be a boost for him as the season continues.

Bottas gave it a go, and it just wasn't enough. I still think he has upped his game quite a bit, but Lewis is still refining his racecraft as well. It's tough to be paired with someone so strong.


As for the podium display, poor taste IMHO. Lewis has enough money and influence to not put the team or Toto in the position of watching him break protocols. It's also my opinion that if people really want to have a discussion on the issue, that it be in the Chit Chat section rather than in the racing forum. But I think this thread has already shown a big part of the problem.... nobody wants to see the whole picture, and most have already made their mind up on the issue without seeing all sides of the facts without bias.

[Nitrodaze]

The smoke thickens at Mercedes Petronas F1 Team. A Mercedes exit from F1 by the start of the new era remains a subject of consideration. Woolf says going from very good to good is of no interest to him. The new era has all the hallmarks of what is unlikely to be of interest to Mercedes and frankly l cannot see why they would want to stay.

If anything, the ban on the so called Party Mode is a clear indication of an assult on the dominance of Mercedes. I can see they would not be impressed by that. Wittingly or unwittingly, F1 is seeming to become less attractive to Mercedes.