Silverstone 2020 GP #1 .

[Bagwan]

Bizzaro world begins in jolly old , as pink Lance is fastest in FP2 .
And the Hulk is back in the other car .
Perez's bubble burst .
Albon's in the armco , and Seb is waaaaaaay back .

Could be fun to watch qually .

[Bagwan]

Thanks for starting this thread , bagwan .
Lance must have disappointed you today , eh ?

Holy cow , are those Mercs fast .
And , what's up with those red cars so far apart ?
And , those Bully cars , too ?

Can't wait for the race .

[Bagwan]

No sweat , man .
I'm pretty excited about the race , too .

It feels like I'm the only one in the stands .

[Bagwan]

Don't worry .
I'm here , too .

[Bagwan]

It feels like we're in quarantine .

[Bagwan]

Pass the champagne .

[Bagwan]

I have my mask on right now , so it's hard to drink .

[Bagwan]

Russell gets burned for speeding past his spinning team mate , and Chuck Le Cluck gets off for making Pink Lance jam on the brakes .

This has been brought to you by the bbc(bagwan broadcasting couch).

More after this .

[Bagwan]

Hey bagwan , did you notice how fast Lulu was ?

[Big Ben]

I haven't seen 1 minute of F1 this year so I can't say much about what happens but the peace and harmony in this thread just warms my heart. Nice to see you all getting along so well. Sorry to interrupt. Go on please.

[Bagwan]

Yeah , pretty amazing , eh ?
I didn't mention it because nobody would have believed I was serious about complimenting him .
He broke his own record , and then broke his own record , and then broke his own record again .
He's awfully hard on those statistics people .

Good thing he drives good .

He's gotta be the outright record holder for number of hairstyles , too (sorry , maybe a little jealous there - little hair , and same style since '74 ).

[Bagwan]

I haven't seen 1 minute of F1 this year so I can't say much about what happens but the peace and harmony in this thread just warms my heart. Nice to see you all getting along so well. Sorry to interrupt. Go on please.

You should see us when we argue .

[airshifter]

Well at least there is an active thread about the qually today! :laugh:

Overall no big surprises, and Merc continue to dominate. I'm not sure I can agree with Ferrari getting away with Leclerc's release, but they seem hit and miss on pit exits at times. Seb seems lost this weekend, and the Hulk is back in a seat in the pink Merc. We'll see what he can make of it. It's great to see Mclaren up near the front again, it's been way to long. And at the rate things are going, Albon might be the first involved in the next silly season. While comparison to Max is tough, I think there are drivers that could consistently put that car farther up on the grid.


And I think we should all perform a welfare check on Bagwan, as lockdowns have not been good to him. I'll bring the beer.

[Nitrodaze]

Yeah , pretty amazing , eh ?
I didn't mention it because nobody would have believed I was serious about complimenting him .
He broke his own record , and then broke his own record , and then broke his own record again .
He's awfully hard on those statistics people .

Good thing he drives good .

He's gotta be the outright record holder for number of hairstyles , too (sorry , maybe a little jealous there - little hair , and same style since '74 ).

I think Stroll is doing Canada proud at the mo. Interesting to see him take on the mantle as the number one driver for racing Point this weekend. And he has stepped up with a good showing. Shame, Perez is down with COVID, l have a feeling that he may have pushed the team a little further up the grid with his feedback to the team. That said, Hulkenburg did a great job coming out of the cold to join a team he has not driven for in four years. Great effort!

Hamilton racks up the records and was simply the best after a small setback in Q2. Bottas has just seen what a mountain he has to climb to win a title with Hammy in the other car. It was quite surprising to see Redbull a full second behind the Mercedes of Hamilton. They are not real contenders this season, but l expect them to win a few races.

How Leclerc outshines Vettel most of this season! Just as Norris is equally thrashing Sainz. Maybe Ferrari hired the wrong Mclaren driver :-)

Albon is struggling, l think he is not getting the right level of support he needs. We saw this trait with Ricciado and Gasly before they departed the team. It is becoming increasingly apparent that Albon is getting lesser and lesser support with each race weekend.

Verstappen, what a star! The pesky dutchman just wrings out every gram of performance in that Redbull and somehow manages to put it ahead of the rest. I would give my left foot to see Verstappen in the Mercedes alongside Hamilton. What a cracking racing that would produce.

Well, Sunday is another day. Points are not awarded for qualifying positions, so bring on the race.

[journeyman racer]

Good weekend for Hamilton so far. Pole for the British GP and Arsenal winning the FA Cup.

[N4D13]

Pérez' car apparently came over all Pérez and got sick.

[gm99]

Hülkenberg won't be able to start the race due to technical problems with the Racing Point's power unit.

[Tazio]

Freakin' Aldumb!

[N4D13]

It's somewhat frustrating to see Magnussen out in an accident that isn't his fault. That's a new one and I'm not sure how to deal with it.

[gm99]

Those clean-ups are taking forever today.

[denkimi]

So the mercedes are about 2 seconds per lap faster than the redbulls if they want to. 3 seconds per lap to the ferrari's.

Why are we even racing? Give them the tile right now and change the rules so that might have a real championship next year.

[N4D13]

What a way to finish the race. Jesus.

I'm super gutted for Sainz of all people because I don't think he's put a foot wrong in the entire season, but every single race so far there's been something outside his control hampering him. In Austria he got screwed by yellow flags in his first Q3 run, then in Styria McLaren botched his pitstop, in Hungary he lost a lot of positions on the pitstop as he couldn't get out of his stop with everyone coming in the pits at that time, and now this. He's truly his father's son.

Also, WTF Pirelli? It looks VERY wrong considering that next week we'll be racing here with softer compounds.

[truefan72]

What a way to finish the race. Jesus.

I'm super gutted for Sainz of all people because I don't think he's put a foot wrong in the entire season, but every single race so far there's been something outside his control hampering him. In Austria he got screwed by yellow flags in his first Q3 run, then in Styria McLaren botched his pitstop, in Hungary he lost a lot of positions on the pitstop as he couldn't get out of his stop with everyone coming in the pits at that time, and now him. He's truly his father's son.

Also, WTF Pirelli? It looks VERY wrong considering that next week we'll be racing here with softer compounds.

Tbh I don’t blame pirelli. I blame the teams for taking them right to the limit

[N4D13]

Tbh I don’t blame pirelli. I blame the teams for taking them right to the limit
To be fair there's not much of a way for the teams to know where the limit was considering the limited amount of testing and the fact that testing was held on different temperatures.

Furthermore, it's Pirelli's job to make tires that slow down when they're shot, rather than delaminating at 300 km/h.

[truefan72]

Once again Mercedes pitfall committee nearly cost Hamilton the win. For the life of me I don’t understand why Hamilton was not brought in after bettas failure and verstappen stop. It really is ridiculous how everyone except for the Mercedes strategy guys can see that Hamilton needed to come in. Smh

[gm99]

Wow, what an exciting finish to a rather boring race. Red Bull must be kicking themselves for bringing Verstappen in after Bottas' tyre failure. And LeClerc once again, like in Austria 1, probably has no clue how in the world he ended up on that podium (although he was massively faster than Vettel, whose race pace was downright embarrassing).
Racing Point are the biggest losers: From the pace they showed on Friday, you would have thought they'd be Mercedes' biggest challengers this week-end, yet in the end they ended up with only two points.

[N4D13]

Something noteworthy - this was officially branded as the Formula 1 Pirelli British Grand Prix, which I believe is very appropriate given how it unfolded.

[Big Ben]

For the life of me, I don't understand Hamilton's fanboys always having a go at Mercedes. If only the team could be made of Hamiltons. Imagine that, all the mechanics Hamiltons, all the engineer Hamiltons.. everyone Hamiltons. They would have won like 4-5 WDCs every year, not 1 every year, like some losers.

[truefan72]

Albon did well to finish in p8
Awesome p4 for Ricciardo and p6 for Ocon. Well done Renault.
P5 for Norris as he continues to shine. Tough on Saint. Leclerc drove a quiet faultless race and kept his tires in good shape. Also great job by Gasly in p7. Impressive.
I can’t believe I’m saying this but a disappointing p9 for stroll and racing point. They are literally giving potentially quality points away . Reminds me of 2009 Toyota who couldn’t capitalize on being the 2nd best car on the grid for most of the season.
Vettel in p10 was a salvage job for a car that wasn’t right all weekend for whatever reason. Definitely getting the 2 nd car treatment like they did to kimi a few years ago. Sad really

[truefan72]

For the life of me, I don't understand Hamilton's fanboys always having a go at Mercedes. If only the team could be made of Hamiltons. Imagine that, all the mechanics Hamiltons, all the engineer Hamiltons.. everyone Hamiltons. They would have won like 4-5 WDCs every year, not 1 every year, like some losers.
For the life of me I don’t understand folks who label any criticism as fanboy behavior. I guess the entire skyF1 are fan boys then since they pointed that out. As are Motorsport and auto moto sport journalists who also mentioned that. Get a grip. At least have something constructive to say rather than being callous

[truefan72]

For the life of me, I don't understand Hamilton's fanboys always having a go at Mercedes. If only the team could be made of Hamiltons. Imagine that, all the mechanics Hamiltons, all the engineer Hamiltons.. everyone Hamiltons. They would have won like 4-5 WDCs every year, not 1 every year, like some losers.
And Toto Wolf is on the official F1 post race interview with Buxton admitting that they should have brought Hamilton in. Oh well...haters gonna hate lol

[denkimi]

And Toto Wolf is on the official F1 post race interview with Buxton admitting that they should have brought Hamilton in. Oh well...haters gonna hate lol
well yes and no.
he had a 40 second lead, if they had told him to take it real easy he would have easily won with a 30 second lead without destroying the tyre.
but indeed, they could have brought him in after max pitted, he would have easily won the race with a 15 second lead.

the only thing they should not have done is to just let him drive at the same pace, which is exactly what they have done.

[Bagwan]

For the life of me, I don't understand Hamilton's fanboys always having a go at Mercedes. If only the team could be made of Hamiltons. Imagine that, all the mechanics Hamiltons, all the engineer Hamiltons.. everyone Hamiltons. They would have won like 4-5 WDCs every year, not 1 every year, like some losers.

Hey , didn't you just tell me you haven't watched any races ?
How would you even know just how good he is ?

There now , way to go . You've started us arguing .

[Bagwan]

And , just for the sake of starting an argument , has anyone got any criticism for the stewards allowing a team to let their driver pass the pit lane entrance with a tire very obviously delaminated , risking it thrashing it's own bodywork in the final turn on the last lap of the race ?

That might have been a real mess , with all kinds of potential controversy ensuing .

And , by the way , it wasn't just to start an argument , but something that ran through my head at the finish of the race .

[denkimi]

And , just for the sake of starting an argument , has anyone got any criticism for the stewards allowing a team to let their driver pass the pit lane entrance with a tire very obviously delaminated , risking it thrashing it's own bodywork in the final turn on the last lap of the race ?

That might have been a real mess , with all kinds of potential controversy ensuing .

And , by the way , it wasn't just to start an argument , but something that ran through my head at the finish of the race .
Leclerc got a 10 seconds penalty last year for not pitting Fast enough when his front wing was damaged.

But i don't feel it should be penalised here. He didn't do another racing lap with it, and coming into the pits could have created the same problems, possibly throwing off bodywork in there.

[airshifter]

And , just for the sake of starting an argument , has anyone got any criticism for the stewards allowing a team to let their driver pass the pit lane entrance with a tire very obviously delaminated , risking it thrashing it's own bodywork in the final turn on the last lap of the race ?

That might have been a real mess , with all kinds of potential controversy ensuing .

And , by the way , it wasn't just to start an argument , but something that ran through my head at the finish of the race .



It seems to be a strange situation really. I think they would have probably called a penalty if he was limping it to the start with others passing or close behind, but as it was only Max was closing fast, and they could have easily tossed the yellow flag quickly as Hamilton was going slow. But then again, if he had caused a yellow due to tire debris, surely they would have imposed a penalty.

Up until that last lap... well it's a good think the midfield gave us some action. The Mercs had Max with nothing to do, and Max had Leclerc in the same situation. Thankfully from there back there was actually some close racing to be had, otherwise it would have been a complete bore-fest.

Seb was really lost today. I guess losing a ride can do that to you, but the Ferrari isn't THAT terrible.

[Nitrodaze]

Once again Mercedes pitfall committee nearly cost Hamilton the win. For the life of me I don’t understand why Hamilton was not brought in after bettas failure and verstappen stop. It really is ridiculous how everyone except for the Mercedes strategy guys can see that Hamilton needed to come in. Smh

It was very high risk decision, l am sure butt holes were firmly shut, fingers and toes crossed as they watched that car limp to the finish line. What a desperate finish to the race. I was rooting for Verstapenn to win the race, but it did not happen. :-(

[Nitrodaze]

Tbh I don’t blame pirelli. I blame the teams for taking them right to the limit

I think Mercedes and Mclaren used the tyres within Pirelli's recommended limits of laps, considering the slow laps behind the safety car. How much the slow laps behind the safety car affected the life of the tires is not clear but Mercedes certainly expected it to last to the end of the race.

I personally did not think Mercedes should have pitted Hamilton. He had a descent gap to 2nd placed Verstapenn to cover all eventuality. A good 30 seconds if l recall. But a pitstop would have been the safest approach. Then again what a finale!

[Nitrodaze]

And , just for the sake of starting an argument , has anyone got any criticism for the stewards allowing a team to let their driver pass the pit lane entrance with a tire very obviously delaminated , risking it thrashing it's own bodywork in the final turn on the last lap of the race ?

That might have been a real mess , with all kinds of potential controversy ensuing .

And , by the way , it wasn't just to start an argument , but something that ran through my head at the finish of the race .

It was not a dangerous situation. Cars with punctures have typically been driven with just the carcass back to the pits to be replaced in the past without punishment, l don't see why there should be an issue with this instance.

[Nitrodaze]

So the mercedes are about 2 seconds per lap faster than the redbulls if they want to. 3 seconds per lap to the ferrari's.

Why are we even racing? Give them the tile right now and change the rules so that might have a real championship next year.

We can't blame Mercedes if their rivals have drop backwards in the development race. Redbull has noticeably slipped backwards in the last two races. Ferrari simply are not in it at all. Even the Pink Mercedes is faster than them at the moment.

[Nitrodaze]

Wow, what an exciting finish to a rather boring race. Red Bull must be kicking themselves for bringing Verstappen in after Bottas' tyre failure. And LeClerc once again, like in Austria 1, probably has no clue how in the world he ended up on that podium (although he was massively faster than Vettel, whose race pace was downright embarrassing).
Racing Point are the biggest losers: From the pace they showed on Friday, you would have thought they'd be Mercedes' biggest challengers this week-end, yet in the end they ended up with only two points.

Racing Point seemed to have focused on qualifying pace rather than race pace. Just one of the indications of how not having Perez in the car has affected the Racing Point weekend.

I felt Verstapenn was cheated out of the win by an unneccesary pitstop. But then again he may have also had puncture if he did not stop.

[Nitrodaze]

well yes and no.
he had a 40 second lead, if they had told him to take it real easy he would have easily won with a 30 second lead without destroying the tyre.
but indeed, they could have brought him in after max pitted, he would have easily won the race with a 15 second lead.

the only thing they should not have done is to just let him drive at the same pace, which is exactly what they have done.

Hamilton seemed to have indicated that Bottas pushed him hard, which was the reason that they both destroyed their tyres. Mercedes probably did not manage the race well enough.

Bottas is out of contention now for the title. He would need some DNF or a bad race weekend for Hamilton, to get back into contention. Hamilton is now 30 points ahead. Bottas is only 6 points ahead of Verstapenn.

This weekend was a disaster for Bottas.

[truefan72]

We can't blame Mercedes if their rivals have drop backwards in the development race. Redbull has noticeably slipped backwards in the last ywo races. Ferrari simply are not in it at all. Even the Pink Mercedes is faster than them at the moment.

And the Mclaren and Renault are probably pretty solid in there too.
As Mercedes said, it was actually the Ferrari shenanigans (in terms of their apparent engine improvement) that forced them to work twice as hard to catch up to the Ferrari that has brought about their improved engine performance in 2020. I'd say the car's pace is right about where the ferrari was in the latter half of 2019. Now the mercedes still struggles following cars and in higher ambient temps, which should make some of the upcoming races very interesting. As to RedBull, I think that they are close but seem stuck with a particular overall design philosophy which is holding them back slightly IMO. They need a fundamental shift in their approach because it isn't the honda engine holding them back at this point.

[Bagwan]

It was not a dangerous situation. Cars with punctures have typically been driven with just the carcass back to the pits to be replaced in the past without punishment, l don't see why there should be an issue with this instance.

First of all , not to be argumentative , but it was , indeed dangerous .
And , my issue with it was that he didn't pit , but instead , risked the tire flying to bits and smashing the front wing into a zillion pieces in the final turn on the final lap , with Max 5 or so seconds behind .
Had he gone back to the pits as you suggested is typical and not punishable , I would have no problem with it .

On any other lap in the race , Lewis would never have considered staying out with a blown tire .
Add to it that it's a right turn onto the final straight , which puts the most strain on that front left blown tire .
And then add that Max was on a fastest lap coming up quickly from behind , pushing Lewis .

On Lewis's side is that it was a brave gamble , and it worked out .

But , it would never have been allowed or even attempted on any other lap (that is , passing the pit entrance with an already blown tire)for safety reasons .


Let me make it clear here , that I'm glad he didn't pit , as it harkened back to the days of Gilles running around on three wheels , refusing to concede defeat . I loved it then and I love it now .

But , i'm struggling a little with where the "safe" line is for the stewards .

[Jag_Warrior]

Wow, what an exciting finish to a rather boring race. Red Bull must be kicking themselves for bringing Verstappen in after Bottas' tyre failure. And LeClerc once again, like in Austria 1, probably has no clue how in the world he ended up on that podium (although he was massively faster than Vettel, whose race pace was downright embarrassing).
Racing Point are the biggest losers: From the pace they showed on Friday, you would have thought they'd be Mercedes' biggest challengers this week-end, yet in the end they ended up with only two points.

TBH, I've recently tried to like Lance... at least give him a fair shake. I felt like I disliked him for the wrong reasons. After hammering him for being just a rich kid, with marginal talent, who got a seat only because daddy bought a team for him, seemed like he finally began showing that he actually does have some talent. But this weekend kind of showed that he can't really get it done, unless he has Perez's setup notes to copy. This weekend made me think back to how badly Danica and Marco fell off in performance when Tony Kanaan was no longer there to set their cars up for them.

I, of course, blame Nico's issues on the Mercedes P/U. But Lance doffed his own weekend. I really was hoping that Nico coul dredeem himself. I've been pulling for him since he won the GP2 title.

As for the race overall, I thought that it was quite exciting. Plenty of midfield battles and some great racing (well, everyone except for Goober Grosjean - why is he still in F1???!!!). And my heart stopped at least twice on the last couple of laps. Once because of Clueless Crofty's mistake and again when Lewis' tire really did let go.

What
A
Race!!!

[Nitrodaze]

First of all , not to be argumentative , but it was , indeed dangerous .
And , my issue with it was that he didn't pit , but instead , risked the tire flying to bits and smashing the front wing into a zillion pieces in the final turn on the final lap , with Max 5 or so seconds behind .
Had he gone back to the pits as you suggested is typical and not punishable , I would have no problem with it .

On any other lap in the race , Lewis would never have considered staying out with a blown tire .
Add to it that it's a right turn onto the final straight , which puts the most strain on that front left blown tire .
And then add that Max was on a fastest lap coming up quickly from behind , pushing Lewis .

On Lewis's side is that it was a brave gamble , and it worked out .

But , it would never have been allowed or even attempted on any other lap (that is , passing the pit entrance with an already blown tire)for safety reasons .


Let me make it clear here , that I'm glad he didn't pit , as it harkened back to the days of Gilles running around on three wheels , refusing to concede defeat . I loved it then and I love it now .

But , i'm struggling a little with where the "safe" line is for the stewards .

The pits and the finish line are practically next to each other. By reaching the pits entrance, the sensible thing was to cross the finish line rather than go into the pits which would have handed the race to Verstapenn.

Also, the tyre did not damage any chassis parts at the point when he arrived at the pit entrance. So it made good sense to finish the race across the finish line.

It was an extraordinary race which we shall be talking about for years to come. And Pirelli make crap racing tyres really WTF, with the safety car for the Kyvat incident which should have increased the tyre life, the tyre disintegrates before the estimated 40 laps tyre lifeline.

It is going to be a three stop strategy next weekend with the even softer Pirelli tyres.

[Nitrodaze]

And the Mclaren and Renault are probably pretty solid in there too.
As Mercedes said, it was actually the Ferrari shenanigans (in terms of their apparent engine improvement) that forced them to work twice as hard to catch up to the Ferrari that has brought about their improved engine performance in 2020. I'd say the car's pace is right about where the ferrari was in the latter half of 2019. Now the mercedes still struggles following cars and in higher ambient temps, which should make some of the upcoming races very interesting. As to RedBull, I think that they are close but seem stuck with a particular overall design philosophy which is holding them back slightly IMO. They need a fundamental shift in their approach because it isn't the honda engine holding them back at this point.

Absolutely, Redbull changed something on the chassis and since then it has dropped its performance. It clearly is not an engine issue. And it would be the beginning of a seperation if Redbull makes the mistake of blaming Honda for this.

[N4D13]

At this moment I need to retract my previous criticism of Pirelli as the evidence is mounting that the tire failures were caused by debris:

- Horner has come out saying that Verstappen's hard front left tire had "50 little cuts" in it: https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/08/03/verstappens-hard-tyre-had-50-little-cuts/

- Albert Fabrega, journalist, claims to have found a piece of metal in the racing line after the race: https://mobile.twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1290360595171115010

Hopefully this will be it and we'll be able to have our next race without tire dramas now.

[truefan72]

TBH, I've recently tried to like Lance... at least give him a fair shake. I felt like I disliked him for the wrong reasons. After hammering him for being just a rich kid, with marginal talent, who got a seat only because daddy bought a team for him, seemed like he finally began showing that he actually does have some talent. But this weekend kind of showed that he can't really get it done, unless he has Perez's setup notes to copy. This weekend made me think back to how badly Danica and Marco fell off in performance when Tony Kanaan was no longer there to set their cars up for them.

I'm in the same boat with you on Stroll.
On pure talent and merit, he probably should be toiling away somewhere in the top 15 in GP2 but somehow has managed to get an F1 ride now for a 4th year.
I really struggle to respect his racing, but recently felt that his 3+ years of experience probably has given him some kind of an improvement in his race craft worthy of my tepid acknowledgment.
Then came this weekend and it was a bit embarrassing. He really drove a stinker of a race.
Then to make matters worse, How they blew it on the other car not being able to start is beyond comprehension. It is either gross incompetence or the fluke of the century.
Hulkenberg's pace was excusable due to the circumstances of his drive, not to mention a severely compromised cockpit setup for him. And despite that he quickly came to grips with the car I'm glad he got that shot and i was beyond disappointed that the he didn't even make it to the starting grid. (almost like team stroll was afraid of being embarrassed by Hulkenberg)

I honestly feel like if they had temporarily bumped Russell up into that seat for the next 2 races, he would have given them a podium. If you had put DeVries in that seat, i would have expected probably a top 5 finish same with wherlein. This racing point car should legitimately be fighting with the Red Bulls and Ferrari's. It reminds me of toyota in 2009. A superb car let down by average drivers, dubious race strategies, and mechanical blunders. This car should be 2nd or 3rd in the WCC standings and include a driver in the top 5. I wonder how much (poor) influence stroll and his dad have on strategy and the overall decisions this team is able to take. As of right now, it's not working and I fear they are throwing away an amazing opportunity to be at the very top end of the grid.

I'm starting to revert back to my previous opinion of stroll, but would love to be proved wrong.

[Nitrodaze]

At this moment I need to retract my previous criticism of Pirelli as the evidence is mounting that the tire failures were caused by debris:

- Horner has come out saying that Verstappen's hard front left tire had "50 little cuts" in it: https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/08/03/verstappens-hard-tyre-had-50-little-cuts/

- Albert Fabrega, journalist, claims to have found a piece of metal in the racing line after the race: https://mobile.twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1290360595171115010

Hopefully this will be it and we'll be able to have our next race without tire dramas now.

Pirelli tyres are not so crap after all. This leads us to wonder if Silverstone needs more marshalls as it took a long time for them to remove Kyvat's Alpha Tauri. The track cleaning effort was very light as well it appeared.

[Nitrodaze]

I'm in the same boat with you on Stroll.
On pure talent and merit, he probably should be toiling away somewhere in the top 15 in GP2 but somehow has managed to get an F1 ride now for a 4th year.
I really struggle to respect his racing, but recently felt that his 3+ years of experience probably has given him some kind of an improvement in his race craft worthy of my tepid acknowledgment.
Then came this weekend and it was a bit embarrassing. How they blew it on the car not being able to start is beyond comprehension. and is either gorss incompetence or the fluke of the century.
Hulkenberg's pace was excusable due to the circumstances of his drive, not to mention a severely compromised cockpit setup for him. And despite that he quickly came to grips with the car I'm glad he got that shot and i was beyond disappointed that the he didn't even make it to the starting grid. (almost like team stroll was afraid of being embarrassed by Hulkenberg)

I honestly feel like if they had temporarily bumped Russell up into that seat for the next 2 races, he would have given them a podium. If you had put DeVries in that seat, i would have expected probably a top 5 finish same with wherlein. This racing point car should legitimately be fighting with the Red Bulls and Ferrari's. It reminds me of toyota in 2009. A superb car let down by average drivers, dubious race strategies, and mechanical blunders. This car should be 2nd or 3rd in the WCC standings and include a driver in the top 5. I wonder how much (poor) influence stroll and his dad have on strategy and the overall decisions this team is able to take. As of right now, it's not working and I fear they are throwing away an amazing opportunity to be at the very top end of the grid.

I'm starting to revert back to my previous opinion of stroll, but would love to be proved wrong.

Stroll qualified well but his race pace was poor. That was due to the poor race setup of the car which suggests that Perez's inputs has been crucial to the team. Also that Stroll has not mastered the art of setting up an F1 car. But given a well setup car, he has performed really well in past races, with one podium last season and two solid forth to show that he certainly has talent, l think he just needs to build up his maturity around car setup.

I subscribe to the fact that Racing Point is not fully capitalizing on the true performance of their 2020 car. Can we fairly put Racing Point's poor showing at Silverstone down to Stroll per ce? I think this weekend exposes a gap in the engineer crew. In the absence of Perez, they ought to have enough engineers present to setup the car for its optimum performance. Lance is the one that stands out in this poor showing because he is the visible one in the car.

The racing point simply had poor race pace due to poor race setup. This may be because the team were knocked of balance due to Perez's COVID test failure since they had to scramble to find a replacement, hence were slightly distracted

I think Lance's poor race was due to the car rather than his personal afforts.

[Bagwan]

I'm in the same boat with you on Stroll.
On pure talent and merit, he probably should be toiling away somewhere in the top 15 in GP2 but somehow has managed to get an F1 ride now for a 4th year.
I really struggle to respect his racing, but recently felt that his 3+ years of experience probably has given him some kind of an improvement in his race craft worthy of my tepid acknowledgment.
Then came this weekend and it was a bit embarrassing. How they blew it on the car not being able to start is beyond comprehension. and is either gorss incompetence or the fluke of the century.
Hulkenberg's pace was excusable due to the circumstances of his drive, not to mention a severely compromised cockpit setup for him. And despite that he quickly came to grips with the car I'm glad he got that shot and i was beyond disappointed that the he didn't even make it to the starting grid. (almost like team stroll was afraid of being embarrassed by Hulkenberg)

I honestly feel like if they had temporarily bumped Russell up into that seat for the next 2 races, he would have given them a podium. If you had put DeVries in that seat, i would have expected probably a top 5 finish same with wherlein. This racing point car should legitimately be fighting with the Red Bulls and Ferrari's. It reminds me of toyota in 2009. A superb car let down by average drivers, dubious race strategies, and mechanical blunders. This car should be 2nd or 3rd in the WCC standings and include a driver in the top 5. I wonder how much (poor) influence stroll and his dad have on strategy and the overall decisions this team is able to take. As of right now, it's not working and I fear they are throwing away an amazing opportunity to be at the very top end of the grid.

I'm starting to revert back to my previous opinion of stroll, but would love to be proved wrong.

Holy crap , dude .
One mediocre race and he's firmly under the bus .

We have no idea at all why he was slower than we expected , and without the Hulk involved , we have nothing to compare him with .

And , to suggest they sabotaged the Hulk to make the boy look better somehow , is waaaaaaaay beyond the pale .

By the way , they get the engine and transmission from Merc , and it was apparently a bolt that broke inside , jamming the drive line , so it wouldn't start . Bad bolt , or bad torque setting , but it seems that it was on Merc's end , not theirs .
Perhaps you'd like to speculate that Merc doesn't want them too close , so gives them the cheap bolts ?

Your last words there : "I'm starting to revert back to my previous opinion of stroll, but would love to be proved wrong."
I don't believe you .

[Bagwan]

At this moment I need to retract my previous criticism of Pirelli as the evidence is mounting that the tire failures were caused by debris:

- Horner has come out saying that Verstappen's hard front left tire had "50 little cuts" in it: https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/08/03/verstappens-hard-tyre-had-50-little-cuts/

- Albert Fabrega, journalist, claims to have found a piece of metal in the racing line after the race: https://mobile.twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1290360595171115010

Hopefully this will be it and we'll be able to have our next race without tire dramas now.

I have a hard time criticizing Pirelli at all , as they are still creating tires to a spec they were asked for .
Part of the game is changing tires when it is best to do so .

That would generally be before they go pop .

You might get a puncture from debris , which is unlucky , but all those tires that did pop were visibly ragged .
Bottas complained for quite a few laps of vibration before his tire went south , and nobody is suggesting he hit any debris .


But , it's not Pirelli's fault at all .
Teams and drivers make those calls .
And they went too far , literally .

Once they take delivery , the only thing the tire company has any say in is tire pressures , which the teams would also stretch the limits of , if they were allowed .

As it turned out , it should have been a two-stop race for Merc , and the next race will likely be three .

It will be interesting , and different from the last race because of the different compounds , but it won't be something to beat Pirelli up for .

[truefan72]

Pirelli tyres are not so crap after all. This leads us to wonder if Silverstone needs more marshalls as it took a long time for them to remove Kyvat's Alpha Tauri. The track cleaning effort was very light as well it appeared.

I think they reduced the number of marshalls due to covid-19
Also if it was debris, it was probably from where the Kimi incident happened.

[Tazio]

I think they reduced the number of marshalls due to covid-19
Also if it was debris, it was probably from where the Kimi incident happened.
Yes I think Kimi's wing was responsible for late race debris. Also Ocon brought up an interesting point:

There is a new thing out of Turn 13; Maggots, Becketts, Chapel, this combination of corners. At the right-hander, Turn 13 exit, now there is no kerb anymore. Which there was before. So you run in the dirt and then you go on to the kerb, and that could also damage your tyres.I can see how this combination could be quite hard on tires!

[Tazio]

In case there is any doubt as to the cause of Kvyat's crash:
https://streamable.com/pvsn5e
:angel:

[truefan72]

I have a hard time criticizing Pirelli at all , as they are still creating tires to a spec they were asked for .
Part of the game is changing tires when it is best to do so .

That would generally be before they go pop .

You might get a puncture from debris , which is unlucky , but all those tires that did pop were visibly ragged .
Bottas complained for quite a few laps of vibration before his tire went south , and nobody is suggesting he hit any debris .


But , it's not Pirelli's fault at all .
Teams and drivers make those calls .
And they went too far , literally .

Once they take delivery , the only thing the tire company has any say in is tire pressures , which the teams would also stretch the limits of , if they were allowed .

As it turned out , it should have been a two-stop race for Merc , and the next race will likely be three .

It will be interesting , and different from the last race because of the different compounds , but it won't be something to beat Pirelli up for .

Not at all.
I've praised him when he has performed well and if you go through some of my posts from earlier you would see that to be true.
Even his Baku podium was well deserved and i praised him highly for it.
Being able to understand your car and extract the best from it is also part of a driver ability.
I'm not saying to outdrive it or exceed it's abilities, but to at the very least allow it to perform at its baseline level, and i'm afraid that Stroll doesn't have that ability yet. Or better yet, never really had to work at it for a number of reasons. Absolutely true that not everything is down to his fault (and the hulk car mishap was more tongue and cheek) and as i've said, serious 2009 toyota vibes. It took the entire team underperforming for them to squander that season.

[truefan72]

In case there is any doubt as to the cause of Kvyat's crash:
https://streamable.com/pvsn5e
:angel:

Yeah, Kvyatt was way too hard on himself about that incident.
Dangerous stuff
Glad he walked away from it unscathed.

[Nitrodaze]

In case there is any doubt as to the cause of Kvyat's crash:
https://streamable.com/pvsn5e
:angel:

I didn't think it was his fault, glad to be proven correct. The next race is going to be interesting with softer tyres. I wonder who thought that one up?

[Nitrodaze]

It was a rotten race for Bottas, Vettel, Albon, Sainz, Kyvat and Magnussen

[N4D13]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151056/pirelli-explains-cause-of-british-gp-tyre-failures

So essentially Pirelli are saying that this happened because of the super long stints + extreme demands on the front left tires + higher cornering speeds this year. No mention of debris after all.

[Bagwan]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151056/pirelli-explains-cause-of-british-gp-tyre-failures

So essentially Pirelli are saying that this happened because of the super long stints + extreme demands on the front left tires + higher cornering speeds this year. No mention of debris after all.

Yep , use them too long and they go pop .
Not Pirelli's fault .
Run what you brung .

[Nitrodaze]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/151056/pirelli-explains-cause-of-british-gp-tyre-failures

So essentially Pirelli are saying that this happened because of the super long stints + extreme demands on the front left tires + higher cornering speeds this year. No mention of debris after all.

I kind of find that debris cutting the tyres and causing them to fail to be an acceptable excuse. As those were the hardest [white walled C1] tyres that burst on the Mercedes, they should have survived the 40 laps long stints, especially since there were safety car moments in the long stints; where they were driving slow. Pirrelli already knew of the extreme demands that the 2020 cars were going to load on the tyres and the potential corrnering speeds at Silverstone, since the beginning of last year.

I am understanding their excuses to mean they did not design the tyres to match the operational conditions correctly. Crap tyres basically!

There seem to be a confrontation of intentions here. Pirelli seem to want the teams to operate their cars within a confined tyre operatiional windows. The teams clearly want to operate their cars to the maximum limits stated by Pirelli for their tyres. It seems the tyres demand of the Silverstone track has exposed that the tyres were short of their prescribed maximum limits. Mercedes obviously planned the tyre use to the very limit of the tyre maximum life of 40 laps. Even so, it does not explain Kyvat's rear tyre failure.

[denkimi]

I have a hard time criticizing Pirelli at all , as they are still creating tires to a spec they were asked for .
No they are not.

What they need to make is tyres that get gradually slower as they wear down. Tyres that you have to change because they get too slow, that make you lose 5 seconds a lap if they are completely worn.
They are not supposed to make tyres that keep the pace and then suddenly explode.

Pirelli has been the tyre supplier for 10 years now and they still suck as bad as in the beginning. They still suddenly fall of the clip without much warning.

Apparantly they just can't make the tyres formula one demands.

[Bagwan]

No they are not.

What they need to make is tyres that get gradually slower as they wear down. Tyres that you have to change because they get too slow, that make you lose 5 seconds a lap if they are completely worn.
They are not supposed to make tyres that keep the pace and then suddenly explode.

Pirelli has been the tyre supplier for 10 years now and they still suck as bad as in the beginning. They still suddenly fall of the clip without much warning.

Apparantly they just can't make the tyres formula one demands.

Yes , they are .

Bottas was complaining for a number of laps of vibrations , and you could see the graining very clearly on his and a number of others tires .
This was clearly a sign they were in need of changing .
It was not sudden at all , except for the final moment of deflation .

Imagine trying to predict how long a given tire will last .
First , you've got , say , a Williams car and a Merc works car .
Are they going to use those tires at the same rate ?
Add in the drivers , who have their different styles of driving , and you may have seemingly identical cars using the skins at very different rates .
Then there's different set-ups for differing strategies , and it all makes for and almost impossible task to predict longevity .

There are so many variables involved , you can bet the farm that nobody is taking a forty lap predicted life as gospel , but rather as a very rough estimate .
They will last that long , without abuse .
Abuse them , and they will pop .

[Firstgear]

Road cars are built so that the brakes start to squeal if the brake pads are wearing too thin. If F1 teams can't interpret vibrations and graining as signs of tire wear, maybe the FIA needs to get Perelli to make squealling tires. Mind you, then the teams would start asking "What is the maximum number of laps that the tires can squeal before they go pop?" Then they would proceed to gamble and go Max + 1 or Max + 2.........

[denkimi]

Yes , they are .

Bottas was complaining for a number of laps of vibrations , and you could see the graining very clearly on his and a number of others tires .
This was clearly a sign they were in need of changing .
It was not sudden at all , except for the final moment of deflation .

Imagine trying to predict how long a given tire will last .
First , you've got , say , a Williams car and a Merc works car .
Are they going to use those tires at the same rate ?
Add in the drivers , who have their different styles of driving , and you may have seemingly identical cars using the skins at very different rates .
Then there's different set-ups for differing strategies , and it all makes for and almost impossible task to predict longevity .

There are so many variables involved , you can bet the farm that nobody is taking a forty lap predicted life as gospel , but rather as a very rough estimate .
They will last that long , without abuse .
Abuse them , and they will pop .
You don't understand what i'm trying to say.

Tyres should not explode before they have become so slow you are forced to change them anyway. They should not be only a little slower and then suddenly collapse, they should get gradually slower, a second per 10 laps or so.

That way you can use them for as long as you want, but after 40 laps you will be 4 seconds a lap slower than someone with new tyres.

Pirelli's f1 are the only tyres i know of that behave like that. Michelin's or bridgestone's didn't behaved like that.
Pirelli's rally tyres also act normal as they should. Push them too far and you will start driving on ice. They will not explode, you will just lose massive amounts of time.

[Nitrodaze]

Yes , they are .

Bottas was complaining for a number of laps of vibrations , and you could see the graining very clearly on his and a number of others tires .
This was clearly a sign they were in need of changing .
It was not sudden at all , except for the final moment of deflation .

Imagine trying to predict how long a given tire will last .
First , you've got , say , a Williams car and a Merc works car .
Are they going to use those tires at the same rate ?
Add in the drivers , who have their different styles of driving , and you may have seemingly identical cars using the skins at very different rates .
Then there's different set-ups for differing strategies , and it all makes for and almost impossible task to predict longevity .

There are so many variables involved , you can bet the farm that nobody is taking a forty lap predicted life as gospel , but rather as a very rough estimate .
They will last that long , without abuse .
Abuse them , and they will pop .

The teams asked Pirelli of what the maximun life of each tyres was and they responded with 40 laps for the hard C1 tyres. Meaning if you do not exceed 40 laps, the tyre will not explode. We could have concluded that the Mercedes car was too hard on its tyres but the same happened to Sainz in a Mclaren. The Mclaren uses a Mercedes engine but loads the tyres differently to the Petronas Mercedes car. Hence, we cannot blame the cars but clearly the tyres.

It just doesn't look good having tyres brust during the race in this way. And it also is not acceptable to blame the teams for the tyres bursting. Especially as they followed the tyre operational specifications.

The interesting thing about the puncture was that the tyres did not wear down to the canvas before it failed. The failure seem to start to manifest in the tyre walls which quickly delaminated the tyres surface from the side wall. Hence the characteristics of the failure is not one the teams would normally expect as all tyre sensors would be indicating that there was enough rubber to get the car home to the finish line.

This is looking like a Pirelli short coming and they may not be able to talk themselves out of this one.

[Nitrodaze]

Apparently, Hamilton did 143 mph on three tyres to keep Verstapenn at bay. He was lucky as the other tyre was clearly starting to fragment. It could have also failed at the speed he was doing if his tyre troubles had started earlier in the lap than it did.

What a crazy end to what seemed like an ordinary race.

[journeyman racer]

Bagwan is right. Pirelli are asked to make junk tyres. How the teams use them is up to them. They're meant to be made to suit a particular car. The teams make adjustment in their car to make best use of the tyres. That's how it's supposed to be.

For the races he doens't win, I thought that was Bottas' best one. Normally when he's behind Hamilton from the beginning, he slowly fades away. But there was a sustained stint behind Hamilton. It was pretty good. Hopefully he can do it more often.

[Nitrodaze]

Bagwan is right. Pirelli are asked to make junk tyres. How the teams use them is up to them. They're meant to be made to suit a particular car. The teams make adjustment in their car to make best use of the tyres. That's how it's supposed to be.


Hello Journeyman, as usual, l don't agree with you on this one. Nobody asked Pirelli to make junk tryes, they are just junk. The general expectation was for the tyres to be consistently good for a prescribed number of laps before degradation and consequential failure. The general complaints are that they are not even reaching their specified maximum limits before they fail.

I think what it means now is that the tyres are good for 90% of the prescribed maximum number of laps specified by Pirelli. If Pirelli say 40laps is the maximum for a particular tyre, that would translate to realistically 36 laps max before the tyres becomes unpredictable.

When you compare the Pirelli tyres to the Bridgestone tyres of old, the Pirelli tyres are comparatively quite below optimum.

[N4D13]

It's also fair to point out that these tyres were developed for older, slower cars and that cornering speeds have increased significantly over the last couple of years. And it was the teams that rejected a move to a newer, stiffer tyre as it felt quitr differently, so this is kind of on their plate as well.

On top of that, there was the kerb change at Becketts, which seems to have been causing the cuts on the tyre surfaces and heavily increased tyre loads.

Ultimately the responsibility is on Pirelli to produce a better product, there's no question on that. But we need to note that in this situation there are a lot of mitigating factors.

[Bagwan]

Hello Journeyman, as usual, l don't agree with you on this one. Nobody asked Pirelli to make junk tryes, they are just junk. The general expectation was for the tyres to be consistently good for a prescribed number of laps before degradation and consequential failure. The general complaints are that they are not even reaching their specified maximum limits before they fail.

I think what it means now is that the tyres are good for 90% of the prescribed maximum number of laps specified by Pirelli. If Pirelli say 40laps is the maximum for a particular tyre, that would translate to realistically 36 laps max before the tyres becomes unpredictable.

When you compare the Pirelli tyres to the Bridgestone tyres of old, the Pirelli tyres are comparatively quite below optimum.

So , if they had predicted a longevity of 36 laps , would you be happy ?

So , on the new tarmac at the track making it harder to predict , and with the recently discovered "cutting curbing" to add to the points I cited in my earlier post , could it be considered hard to predict ?

I would imagine the teams looking at the tires and making judgments , much like yourself , about the real characteristics of the tires .

And , I'm sure Pirelli learned more as well .

By the way , they weren't asked for "junk" tires , as you guys put it .
They were given specific mandates to produce exactly what we have .

[denkimi]

For the races he doens't win, I thought that was Bottas' best one. Normally when he's behind Hamilton from the beginning, he slowly fades away. But there was a sustained stint behind Hamilton. It was pretty good. Hopefully he can do it more often.
I don't agree.

This was just another controlled race for mercedes. They drive fast a the start or restart for 5 to 7 laps until they have a 10 second lead, and then they just adjust their pace to match that of the number 3 of the race.
Hamilton could go a lot faster, bottas could go a lot faster. They both just have orders not to. Except from qualifying, we can't tell anything about the true speed of the mercedes cars.

[Nitrodaze]

So , if they had predicted a longevity of 36 laps , would you be happy ?

So , on the new tarmac at the track making it harder to predict , and with the recently discovered "cutting curbing" to add to the points I cited in my earlier post , could it be considered hard to predict ?

I would imagine the teams looking at the tires and making judgments , much like yourself , about the real characteristics of the tires .

And , I'm sure Pirelli learned more as well .

By the way , they weren't asked for "junk" tires , as you guys put it .
They were given specific mandates to produce exactly what we have .

Assuming the tyres does not pop before 36 laps, yes l and everyone else would be happy. Their 36 laps probably mean 32 laps.

There were talks about the kerbs at Beckett but there was no evidence that it was responsible for the tyre failures. You seem to find everyone else to blame for this, the teams, the track, maybe we should blame sky as well. It is what it is!

They haven't been asked to produce a tyre that does not meet their own clear stipulation to the teams regarding the maximum number of laps that a tyre should be run. If Pilrelli say 40 laps max for the hardest C1 tyre, that is what the teams reasonably expect the maximum life of the tyres to be. Not 37 laps. This is F1 the most technologically advanced racing platform in the world. If Pirelli say 40, then that is everyone's expectation.


That said, Silverston need more marshalls to do a proper clean up in the event of a crash. We cannot rule out cuts to the tyres being contributory to the tyre failure. Silverstone has always been very hard on tyres, Pirelli know that full well. Thats why they do tyre test at various tracks.

[Nitrodaze]

I don't agree.

This was just another controlled race for mercedes. They drive fast a the start or restart for 5 to 7 laps until they have a 10 second lead, and then they just adjust their pace to match that of the number 3 of the race.
Hamilton could go a lot faster, bottas could go a lot faster. They both just have orders not to. Except from qualifying, we can't tell anything about the true speed of the mercedes cars.

Those Petronas Mercedes cars are super fast! They are making Redbull and Ferrari look very ordinary. Both have been outdone on the chassis and engine front. 30 minutes lead puts Mercedes in a different formula, lets call it Formula Zero!

[N4D13]

Regarding Kyvat's accident, this is what Pirelli had to say:


Statement on Kvyat incident, British GP: a mechanical issue led to the inside of the wheel rim overheating, burning the bead of the tyre. So the bead was no longer able to seal the tyre onto the rim. This caused the deflation, with the tyre itself playing no part in the cause.

[Bagwan]

Assuming the tyres does not pop before 36 laps, yes l and evetyone else would be happy. Their 36 laps probably mean 32 laps.

There were talks about the kerbs at Beckett but there was no evidence that it was responsible for the tyre failures. You seem to find everyone else to blame for this, the teams, the track, maybe we should blame sky as well. It is what it is!

They haven't been asked to produce a tyre that does not meet their own clear stipulation to the teams regarding the maximum number of laps that a tyre should be run. If Pilrelli say 40 laps max for the hardest C1 tyre, that is what the teams reasonably expect the maximum life of the tyres to be. Not 37 laps. This is F1 the most technologically advanced racing platform in the world. If Pirelli say 40, then that is everyone's expectation.


That said, Silverston need more marshalls to do a proper clean up in the event of a crash. We cannot rule out cuts to the tyres being contributory to the tyre failure. Silverstone has always been very hard on tyres, Pirelli know that full well. Thats why they do tyre test at various tracks.

Did any team reach 40 laps on those tires ?

[journeyman racer]

Hello Journeyman, as usual, l don't agree with you on this one. Nobody asked Pirelli to make junk tryes, they are just junk. The general expectation was for the tyres to be consistently good for a prescribed number of laps before degradation and consequential failure. The general complaints are that they are not even reaching their specified maximum limits before they fail.

I think what it means now is that the tyres are good for 90% of the prescribed maximum number of laps specified by Pirelli. If Pirelli say 40laps is the maximum for a particular tyre, that would translate to realistically 36 laps max before the tyres becomes unpredictable.

When you compare the Pirelli tyres to the Bridgestone tyres of old, the Pirelli tyres are comparatively quite below optimum.
Hello. Good day to you, sir.

Personally, having a definite expectation of tyre life is too much to ask for by the teams. I've watched a Frank Dernie interview on YT. He was saying that the two hardest parts to get right in an F1 car are aero and tyres. This is obviously the case atm.

I think you'll find there's been a directive to have substandard tyres in F1 rules to manufacture the spectacle of the 2010 Canadian GP. A race where people seemed to enjoy the race with a tyres less suitable for the conditions causing a fluctuation of performance. It's why there's the rule of having to use two compounds.

They could make a tyre to perform sufficiently for a whole race. But the FIA/F1/teams/fans aren't interested in that.


I don't agree.

This was just another controlled race for mercedes. They drive fast a the start or restart for 5 to 7 laps until they have a 10 second lead, and then they just adjust their pace to match that of the number 3 of the race.
Hamilton could go a lot faster, bottas could go a lot faster. They both just have orders not to. Except from qualifying, we can't tell anything about the true speed of the mercedes cars.

How do you interpret the competitive situation between Hamilton and Bottas if the bolded is the case?

[Nitrodaze]

Did any team reach 40 laps on those tires ?

That's the point, isn't it?

[denkimi]

How do you interpret the competitive situation between Hamilton and Bottas if the bolded is the case?
What competitive situation?
Have you seen them race each other at some point this season?

Without problems they just use their standard scenario. Push a few laps till the lead is big enough. Then slow both cars down till slightly above the speed of the 3th in the race, and maintain that speed untill the end.
If a safety car happens, just repeat till the gap is once more 10+ seconds.
They can both go a lot faster if needed, but they don't seem to use that speed to race each other. That can only mean they have orders not to.

But:
We know that Bottas does not race hamilton, but i'm not sure whether hamilton will not race bottas if needed.

[journeyman racer]

What competitive situation?
Have you seen them race each other at some point this season?

Without problems they just use their standard scenario. Push a few laps till the lead is big enough. Then slow both cars down till slightly above the speed of the 3th in the race, and maintain that speed untill the end.
If a safety car happens, just repeat till the gap is once more 10+ seconds.
They can both go a lot faster if needed, but they don't seem to use that speed to race each other. That can only mean they have orders not to.

But:
We know that Bottas does not race hamilton, but i'm not sure whether hamilton will not race bottas if needed.
This is what I was meaning.

[Nitrodaze]

What competitive situation?
Have you seen them race each other at some point this season?

Without problems they just use their standard scenario. Push a few laps till the lead is big enough. Then slow both cars down till slightly above the speed of the 3th in the race, and maintain that speed untill the end.
If a safety car happens, just repeat till the gap is once more 10+ seconds.
They can both go a lot faster if needed, but they don't seem to use that speed to race each other. That can only mean they have orders not to.

But:
We know that Bottas does not race hamilton, but i'm not sure whether hamilton will not race bottas if needed.

I think Bottas was pushing Hamilton hard at this race which resulted in the drop of the tyre life that resulted in the puncture. They were racing each other allright.

[Bagwan]

That's the point, isn't it?

Well , I asked a question .
The point was to get an answer .

[Nitrodaze]

Well , I asked a question .
The point was to get an answer .

:D

[Bagwan]

:D

So , I guess you don't have an answer then .

Just watching the second practice , and they mentioned that the softs for this weekend were too gooey , but that the sun just went behind the clouds , the temperature has dropped , and the teams might just change their minds about them as a result .

It's something that I forgot to mention when I was trying to explain how difficult it would be to predict the longevity of the skins .

So as I see it , you and I are 4 laps of missed prediction away from both seeing Pirelli as doing the job .
You'd be happy if they had predicted 36 , and I can't imagine even having to try and figure it all out , let alone getting within 4 laps , with so many variables .

[denkimi]

I think Bottas was pushing Hamilton hard at this race which resulted in the drop of the tyre life that resulted in the puncture. They were racing each other allright.
No he didn't.

In less than 10 laps they had about a 10 seconds advantage over Verstappen
40 laps later, they still had that same 10 seconds advantage.
That means they both pushed a few laps till they had a good lead, and then slowed down to match Verstappen's pace.

If bottas had pushed Hamilton, they would have had a 50 seconds advantage over Verstappen.

[Nitrodaze]

So , I guess you don't have an answer then .

Just watching the second practice , and they mentioned that the softs for this weekend were too gooey , but that the sun just went behind the clouds , the temperature has dropped , and the teams might just change their minds about them as a result .

It's something that I forgot to mention when I was trying to explain how difficult it would be to predict the longevity of the skins .

So as I see it , you and I are 4 laps of missed prediction away from both seeing Pirelli as doing the job .
You'd be happy if they had predicted 36 , and I can't imagine even having to try and figure it all out , let alone getting within 4 laps , with so many variables .

Agreed, and the decision to use softer tyres this weekend just highlight the fact that Pirelli are all of the place with their operation at the moment. After the punctures last weekend, l would have thought they would have taken a cautious path this weekend and stick with the harder tyres but with lower maximum laps threshold.

[Nitrodaze]

So , I guess you don't have an answer then .

Just watching the second practice , and they mentioned that the softs for this weekend were too gooey , but that the sun just went behind the clouds , the temperature has dropped , and the teams might just change their minds about them as a result .

It's something that I forgot to mention when I was trying to explain how difficult it would be to predict the longevity of the skins .

So as I see it , you and I are 4 laps of missed prediction away from both seeing Pirelli as doing the job .
You'd be happy if they had predicted 36 , and I can't imagine even having to try and figure it all out , let alone getting within 4 laps , with so many variables .

Agreed, and the decision to use softer tyres this weekend just highlight the fact that Pirelli are all of the place with their operation at the moment. After the punctures last weekend, l would have thought they would have taken a cautious path this weekend and stick with the harder tyres but with lower maximum laps threshold.

[TWO FOR THE PRICE OF ONE :D]

[Bagwan]

Agreed, and the decision to use softer tyres this weekend just highlight the fact that Pirelli are all of the place with their operation at the moment. After the punctures last weekend, l would have thought they would have taken a cautious path this weekend and stick with the harder tyres but with lower maximum laps threshold.

It takes time to produce these tires , and they are bespoke to this series alone .
It is not possible to make new ones in a week .
So they produced , again . what they were asked for .

Perhaps the tarmac is acting slightly different to what they expected , but the point of going one step softer was always to make the two races different , which it will certainly do .

They are not "all over the place" at all .
Not in the slightest .

[gm99]

With fresh tires, Verstappen managed to run a fastest lap that was over two seconds quicker than either Mercedes. Considering that Mercedes in turn was a second faster than the Red Bull in every session prior to the race and that their fastest lap was some five seconds off their qualifying pace, I find it hard to believe that they were anywhere near their limit in the race.