Singapore Night Race Comfirmed [Archive]

CarlMetro

11th May 2007, 12:45

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6646125.stm

Singapore will stage a Formula One Grand Prix next year, with the race set to be the first in the sport's history to be held at night.
It will be on a street circuit around the Marina Bay district, and is planned for September or early October.

"Singapore is going to be the leader with the street race at night - we're excited about the idea," said F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone.

But Singapore's government says safety concerns will have to be resolved.

"Safety is of paramount concern to all of us," said Singapore's Trade and Industry minister S. Iswaran.

"Therefore, we will proceed with a night race only if the safety and operational requirements of all parties are fully met - if not, we will revert to a day race.

"(But) a night race will be unique and allow the Singapore event to reach out to television audiences in Asia, Europe and the US."

Singapore will stage the race for five years, with Ecclestone keeping the option to extend the deal for a further five years.

Ecclestone wants to expand the F1 calendar from 17 to 20 races per season, and the addition of Singapore is the second new race in two days after Valencia joined the circuit on Thursday.

ShiftingGears

11th May 2007, 12:51

Cool, I guess...

It's something different, for sure. Anyone got a map of the circuit?

ioan

11th May 2007, 13:41

Luckily they are planing to revert to a day race!
I can imagine drivers refusing to race by night at the slightest safety concern, and they would be right to do so.

raphael123

11th May 2007, 13:54

I doubt racing at night (let's not forget the track will be heavily lit up with lights) would be any more dangerous than say driving in heavy rain. Well actually, it'll be much safer.

I think it'll be something positive! Something to look forward to definately! Formula One is a dangerous sport, people who moan about the safety are forgetting that. Why not go watch golf maybe? Oh yes, I guess that's dangerous, what is the ball goes into the crowd :dozey: Maybe watch bowling or something :)

andreag

11th May 2007, 14:08

Anyone got a map of the circuit?
Yes, I have one:

http://www.singeo.com.sg/singeo/maps/grandprixmap.html

Robinho

11th May 2007, 14:09

crikey, i thought the Valencia announcement was big, but another street circuit (i think this is the more improtant part of the news, rather than when it wil be run) and the fact they are going to attampt to run a night race.

i don't think that will prove much of an issue, the only thing will be the cost of providing enough powerful lights to do the job and siting them correctly. if they can manage that the light provided should me more than enough to race under, after all they race in rain and on cloudy days too, when visibility is less than perfect.

will be interesting to see what they come up with as a circuit, the challenge for me is to make it fast enough to be interesting, "street" enough to not look like a track in a park, with no relation to real roads, supply good racing and yet all the time safe enough.

with 3 potential proper street circuits next year would it be worth a midfield car designing a car to be optimised for very twisty/street style tight circuits to try and grab a bit of glory on a few weekends over the year, rather than designing a compromise which has to be set up to perform everywhere?

ioan

11th May 2007, 14:10

I doubt racing at night (let's not forget the track will be heavily lit up with lights) would be any more dangerous than say driving in heavy rain. Well actually, it'll be much safer.

Imagine that the lights turn of when traveling at 250 kmh with one car in front and another one behind! :eek:
And you call it safer than in the rain! :rolleyes:

ioan

11th May 2007, 14:12

with 3 potential proper street circuits next year would it be worth a midfield car designing a car to be optimised for very twisty/street style tight circuits to try and grab a bit of glory on a few weekends over the year, rather than designing a compromise which has to be set up to perform everywhere?

Some might try it! Although I think that the drivers can make a better show of their qualities in such cases.

Robinho

11th May 2007, 14:16

Imagine that the lights turn of when traveling at 250 kmh with one car in front and another one behind! :eek:
And you call it safer than in the rain! :rolleyes:

it would be foolish to run all the lights of the same power supply, nor run without at least one back up, so even in the event of 1 or even some lights failing there would still be plenty of light to safely slow down and end the race there, or run under safety car for a while, but i'm sure they will have thought of every eventuality, ideally there would be enough light from, say, half the lights to be safe to cover for any failures.

its not like no races have been run under floodlights before, i believe they've even done the likes of champcar (so no headlights etc) before, so not such a huge leap to F1.

Robinho

11th May 2007, 14:19

Some might try it! Although I think that the drivers can make a better show of their qualities in such cases.

of course the best drivers should show, and with a few chances in a year perhaps they'll shine even more.

as for he teams, it could prove catastrophic if they failed to get it right, they'd be no-where in the fast races and potentially only do ok in the street races, so it might be too much of a risk to pursue such a strategy, but it could be intersting to see if anyone does design their cars specifically to excel in one type of race more than another?

Sleeper

11th May 2007, 14:34

Imagine that the lights turn of when traveling at 250 kmh with one car in front and another one behind! :eek:
And you call it safer than in the rain! :rolleyes:
Your scare mongoring here, night racing is not a new thing, NASCAR, Champ Car and the IRL have all held a plethora of night races that have been very well lit and safe. I'm not fool enough to say that it will never happen (that would just be asking for trouble) but I do know that with the right people there is absolutely no need for this to be more dangerous in any way than GP racing normaly is.

I'm looking forward to this as itwould be interesting to see how the current crop of drivers deal with racing under lights.

VkmSpouge

11th May 2007, 14:46

I'm favour of a night race. Should be quite interesting.

cos

11th May 2007, 14:56

I can imagine drivers refusing to race by night at the slightest safety concern, and they would be right to do so.

IndyCars, ChampCars, sports cars, and touring cars have all held successful night races in the past with no trouble. Why is there such a massive concern about an F1 night race? It's not like it's an unproven concept; and the speed can hardly be an issue (the IRL would average at a far higher speed than F1 round ovals). Fit some skid blocks to the bottom of the cars, stick on some special-reflective liveries and watch 'em race!!

CarlMetro

11th May 2007, 15:04

I don't see safety as an issue, Le Mans has been run in the dark for years. Admittedly the cars in Le Mans have headlights, but that's all they have.

ioan

11th May 2007, 15:06

IndyCars, ChampCars, sports cars, and touring cars have all held successful night races in the past with no trouble. Why is there such a massive concern about an F1 night race? It's not like it's an unproven concept; and the speed can hardly be an issue (the IRL would average at a far higher speed than F1 round ovals). Fit some skid blocks to the bottom of the cars, stick on some special-reflective liveries and watch 'em race!!

Well the Singapore track won't be an oval, it will supposedly have corners, maybe even sharp ones!

raphael123

11th May 2007, 15:08

Imagine that the lights turn of when traveling at 250 kmh with one car in front and another one behind! :eek:
And you call it safer than in the rain! :rolleyes:

As has been pointed out - night races have taken place before. It's nothing new. I'm sure it wouldn't be happening if it was deemed as unsafe as you seem to be making out.

It's much safer than racing in the rain, where you can't see anything infront due to the spray, and on top of that you have much less grip. Do you think they should stop the race everytime it starts raining?

If the lights did go out, I doubt the drivers would brake to a halt leading for the driver behind to crash into them anyway lol.

I think you simply didn't think much before you wrote that message. It's ok to admit you were wrong and withdraw that statement you said don't worry :) I've done it before, it's not tooo painful lol :p :

Flat.tyres

11th May 2007, 15:23

There willbe no difference from driving during the day.

Do you honestly think spectators will be denied the viewing of all those lovely company names, and the sponsors putting up with it, because of poor visability.

There is no safty implications at all.

Ranger

11th May 2007, 15:28

Well the Singapore track won't be an oval, it will supposedly have corners, maybe even sharp ones!
ChampCar ran a night race at Houston ( a street circuit ) last year, which was effective and safe.

cos

11th May 2007, 15:34

ChampCar ran a night race at Houston ( a street circuit ) last year, which was effective and safe.

And don't forget Le Mans! With all the lights set up on circuits for night races it's practically lighter than daylight.

BTW, I don't think it's been confirmed that Singapore will be a night race yet!

ioan

11th May 2007, 15:48

As has been pointed out - night races have taken place before. It's nothing new. I'm sure it wouldn't be happening if it was deemed as unsafe as you seem to be making out.

Can you guarantee that a black out wont happen?

You might also consider that the F1 drivers seem to be very much bothered about safety reasons, much more than drivers from any other motorsport series.

Having an ugly accident just for the show is the last thing I would like to see in F1, but than I don't watch F1 for the show, unlike most people.

Flat.tyres

11th May 2007, 16:01

I really dont follow you here. Why do you think there will be a power failure. I know the FIA make some silly decisions at times but do you really think they would hold a night race if it compromised the safty of the drivers, spectators or marshalls.

That seems a bit far fetched to me.

Say there was a simultanous terrorist attack taking out every light and backup system on the circuit, there would be a contingency to black flag immediatly the race and the cars would just come to a stop. Dont forget they will practically be able to drive this track with their eyes closed and they will have their high vis lights on to stop running into each other.

Or do you think there might be some sort of emf blast that will take everything out :)

raphael123

11th May 2007, 16:09

raphael123

11th May 2007, 16:13

Can you guarantee that a black out wont happen?

You might also consider that the F1 drivers seem to be very much bothered about safety reasons, much more than drivers from any other motorsport series.

Having an ugly accident just for the show is the last thing I would like to see in F1, but than I don't watch F1 for the show, unlike most people.

Using your philosophy, F1 shouldn't take place at all then if we shouldn't do something even if there's a 0.0001% chance of something happening which could injure a driver.

The chances of having a black out would be much much much lower than e.g. a rear suspension failure causing the car to have a major crash and seriously injure a driver. So should F1 simply not exist?

And as I said, do you worry about the safety aspects of F1 in wet weather conditions, enough so to say we shouldn't have F1 racing when it's wet.

Yes, I watch F1 for the show. Not to see crashes, or drivers injured, but for the show, the cars, the racing, the drivers, even the technology, it's all part of the show. What do you watch it for then ?

Erki

11th May 2007, 16:18

I don't see safety as an issue, Le Mans has been run in the dark for years. Admittedly the cars in Le Mans have headlights, but that's all they have.

Yup. If my memory serves me right then when Colin McRae raced there, he was surprised at how dim the headlights were compared to his rallycar.

Layoutwise, it looks to be a pretty nice track.

And I also don't understand the hystery from ioan. :)

Erki

11th May 2007, 16:20

What do you watch it for then ?

To have an excuse to take a pint on Sunday afternoon. Cheers! :beer:

andreag

11th May 2007, 16:25

Say there was a simultanous terrorist attack taking out every light and backup system on the circuit, there would be a contingency to black flag immediatly the race and the cars would just come to a stop.
How can the drivers see a black flag during a blackout?

And talking about a sudden catastrophic incident to cause a total blackout (very difficult, IMO), how can they race on open air tracks, not being worried for a meteor falling on the track?

Or even worst, how can they race on solid ground, with the risk of an earthquake?

Flat.tyres

11th May 2007, 16:36

How can the drivers see a black flag during a blackout?

:)

Perhaps they could have an illuminous black flag that glows blacker when all the lights go out.

No, what about Flares then or perhaps we can get ioan to come over the radios saying "i told you so"

Now, it just leaves us to come up with an eventuality fro alien invasion :)

schmenke

11th May 2007, 16:44

Can you guarantee that a black out wont happen?
...

ioan, I'm sure the lighting system will be equipped with at least one back-up supplied by a generator.

I for one am not a fan of street circuits :down:
But perhaps Singapore will change my opinion :mark:

Sleeper

11th May 2007, 16:46

The drivers should be able to see where the other cars are on track ahead of them because of the rear lights, which will probably get turned on for the race same as it would for a wet race. As far as I can tell the dangers to the drives will not be any higher than normal.

Erki

11th May 2007, 16:48

Flat.tyres

11th May 2007, 17:03

If there is a total black out, no electricity, then radios wouldn't work. :p :
But of course, drivers wouldn't notice that it's pitch black and until someone waves a flag or radios them, they go on flat out...

No, youre assuming they think its just a yelloow flag scenario and carry on regardless :)

I think were missing the benefits here. You can have a special qualifying with an average of times between lit and unlit runs for a start.

Then, what about the race director having an on off switch for the pits. If theres a safty car period, he can switch it off to dissuade teams from pitting during the SC.

The possibilities are endless :)

ioan

11th May 2007, 17:54

ioan, I'm sure the lighting system will be equipped with at least one back-up supplied by a generator.

I for one am not a fan of street circuits :down:
But perhaps Singapore will change my opinion :mark:

Don't know if they can light a circuit to motorsport standards with generators, it may be possible but seems highly unlikely.

I remember a few months back, and in the night, it was a power black out in Europe and as a result there was no electricity for some time in a few countries. Might not have been for too long, but in F1 one second might be an eternity.

One possibility would be to use those slow incandescent lamps they use on highways, it takes some time for them to light up but there might be some light coming out when power is of too, giving them a chance to park it before it's to late.

Anyway we shall see what happens in one year and a bit.

VkmSpouge

11th May 2007, 18:21

You can easily negate a chance of a total black out by having some lights running on separate generators. There would be no chance that all lighting would then fail at the same time.

schmenke

11th May 2007, 19:02

Don't know if they can light a circuit to motorsport standards with generators, ...

Yes they can, quite easily.

raphael123

11th May 2007, 19:53

ioan

11th May 2007, 20:17

Ioan, I'm curious as to what you watch F1 for, if it isn't the show?

And if your main reason for being against having a night race is on safety issues, what is your take on wet weather races?

Cheers mate, I look forward to your response :up: :)

I follow F1 for the technology, every aspect of it.

Wet weather races mean you have about the same bad visibility all along the way, this allows the eyes to get accustomed to it, and if it starts getting to bad the drivers can decide to park it.

Night races are all nice and fun, I suppose that's how it is given how some people support it around here, as long as the lights don't go off, because it would take much more time that the fraction of a second for the drivers eyes to get accustomed to the new conditions (in fact it is several seconds) even if not complete darkness.

I hope you liked my response! :)

Ian McC

11th May 2007, 20:43

Well it should be interesting to see the teams struggle with putting those big spot lamps onto the cars ;) :p :

Robinho

11th May 2007, 21:45

what about if it starts to rain durting a race, what about going through the tunnel at monaco, what about clouds?

if, (a big if) the ights failed they would have enough backup, not hooked up to the grid, that would light sufficiently to allow the drivers to slow down safely. they wouldn't suddenly veer off into the walls or crash into each other just becuase the light went dim, they would be briefed that in the event of the failure the race is effectively over and to slow to a cruising pace.

there is a chance of course that all the lights fail, or are destroyed, as are the backup lights, and all the city lights also went out, and in that moment the drivers would be unable to see well. but that is no more likely than something equally catastrophic happening in the day.

in my opinion driving in the rain is far more dangerous, and whilst a continuous issue the visibility is far worse and not constant, the faster they go the worse the spray, so the fastest parts are the most dangerous.

the safety fears of a night race are a moot point, as long as the lights provide enough quality light to race under then it will be fine. if they don't, they won't race at night, simple.

the backup options will be plenty good enough to see to stop racing

ArrowsFA1

11th May 2007, 22:13

crikey, i thought the Valencia announcement was big, but another street circuit (i think this is the more improtant part of the news, rather than when it wil be run)...
There certainly does seem to be a move towards taking the races back to the streets, as opposed to building yet another "superb facility" from scratch. As you say I think that is more significant than maybe having a night race.

It's where Grand Prix racing came from, but it's a tradition that only really Monaco maintains in this season's calendar. Some may remember the likes of Montjuich, Rouen-les-Essarts, Reims, and Pescara. If F1 is heading back to natural road circuits then it's good news IMHO.

raikk

12th May 2007, 00:37

Yes, I have one:

http://www.singeo.com.sg/singeo/maps/grandprixmap.html

that little round part should be interesting (roundabout)..

Stuartf12007

12th May 2007, 01:11

i am excited about this night race, though with all the flood lights we probably wont notice the night darkness much at all, still its something to lookforward to.

stevie_gerrard

12th May 2007, 03:14

i think its worth to trial a night race, then if it doesnt work out they can chuck it on the scrapheap.

i look forward to it.

call_me_andrew

12th May 2007, 05:48

but than I don't watch F1 for the show, unlike most people.

There's a show?

Valve Bounce

12th May 2007, 06:11

Imagine that the lights turn of when traveling at 250 kmh with one car in front and another one behind! :eek:
And you call it safer than in the rain! :rolleyes:

ioan, we are talking about Singapore here - one of the most progressive cities in the World. Why on earth would the lights go out?

But as someone here pointed out, the minister would only permit a night race if he was satisfied that it is safe and everything must be in order for the race to be safe. Surely, a backup system would be on hand to ensure the power doesn't go out.

After all, most of Singapore is high rise and dependant on lifts, and I cannot see this country not already having provisions for any power glitches.

andreag

12th May 2007, 11:27

After all, most of Singapore is high rise and dependant on lifts, and I cannot see this country not already having provisions for any power glitches.
Well, Bahrain is in the middle of the desert, and they have water provisions ;) .

Valve Bounce

12th May 2007, 11:56

Well, Bahrain is in the middle of the desert, and they have water provisions ;) .
Actually, Bahrain is a small Island off the coast of Saudi Arabia, near Al Khobar, where I used to work, and where we could see the lights at night. It was bloody hot and humid (the humidity was above 110% ) :( and we had no booze while the expats in Bahrain did. :(

Ian McC

12th May 2007, 13:13

The important question is, as with Valencia, is overtaking possible or is it going to be a parade race like Monoco? I wonder if Bernie has finally decided overtaking is a thing on the past and not worth bothering about.

ioan

12th May 2007, 14:01

Bernie doesn't care about other than money.
As long as they pay what he asks for there will be a race on their track.

BobbyC

12th May 2007, 19:50

Musco Lighting from the US (Iowa) could be called to provide the temporary lighting for this event. Musco provides television lights when college baseball games when the stadium lights are not capable for television because of NCAA Baseball Tournament games. Musco does the lights at all NASCAR circuits.

Musco also has worked the primetime golf matches with temporary floodlights.

71minus2

14th May 2007, 21:24

These pictures show how bright lights can be. Admittedly its on a flat open space without buildings etc but you see how it could work.

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2003/By800/20030704P_0028.jpg (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2003/By800/20030704P_0028.jpg)

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2003/By800/20030705P_0026.jpg

Regards
Richard

rohanweb

14th May 2007, 21:52

Great pictures Richard ;)

I cant lookforward to the singapore GP..
welldone Bernie!

Periapt

17th May 2007, 00:13

Cool, I guess...

It's something different, for sure. Anyone got a map of the circuit?

Yes, I have one:

http://www.singeo.com.sg/singeo/maps/grandprixmap.html

Looks interesting. There may be some real opportunities to pass.

Periapt

AJP

17th May 2007, 03:30

I have read that Valencia has been designed by Tilke..not sure about Singapore...what has he done, rebuilt all of the city streets to make it into a circuit..sounds ridiculous...

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/05/10/sports/EU-SPT-CAR-F1-Valencia.php

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/valencia_f1_streetcircuit_map.jpg

I hope the bridge is finished in time...otherwise those F1 cars will have some serious long jumps ahead of them over the port... ;)

Singapore looks great...from google earth it looks like it the track goes through some very interesting sections of the city...I think it will look quite good visually..

call_me_andrew

17th May 2007, 04:56

wmcot

17th May 2007, 06:48

How about painting the track markings, car sponsor logos, and the pit area with a glow-in-the-dark paint and run the whole thing under "black light"? The UV would really make the sponsors happy since their logos would be visible anywhere. :)

Seriously, I don't see a safety problem. I'm sure the cars will all run with their rain lights on so you wouldn't rear-end the car in front if the lights did fail. Just in case, however, they could make sure the track is lined with fans with cigarette lighters to use in case of emergency.

Valve Bounce

17th May 2007, 08:17

May I repeat, gentlemen, that we are talking about Singapore, one of the most progressive cities/countries in the world. If they want something done, it's done.
Anyone who has worked in either HK or Singapore will know what I am talking about. They don't have heaps of committees who argue endlessly just so some guy can show he is more "intelligent" than the next Consultant.

They get things done!!

ShiftingGears

17th May 2007, 08:21

Are the Singapore and Valencia circuits clockwise or anticlockwise?

Ranger

17th May 2007, 10:07

If you would like to see this from the driver's point of view, click here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2JLups6WQU

Seems pretty good to me. :)

andreag

17th May 2007, 11:08

Are the Singapore and Valencia circuits clockwise or anticlockwise?
Valencia is clockwise. I'm not sure about Singapore.

ClarkFan

17th May 2007, 20:17

May I repeat, gentlemen, that we are talking about Singapore, one of the most progressive cities/countries in the world. If they want something done, it's done.

Even the bit about spectators with cigarette lighters?

;)

ClarkFan