Vettel to leave Ferrari at the end of the season - where to next?

[gm99]

With Ferrari announcing that Sebastian Vettel will not be returning to the Scuderia for 2021, where will the four-times world champion end up?

As I doubt he will be wanting to play second fiddle to either Hamilton or Verstappen, Mercedes and RBR seem out of the question (unless Lewis himself changes to Ferrari). Also, I don't think he will want to go to another Ferrari-powered team like Haas or Alfa Romeo.
McLaren (with Mercedes engines in 2021) might be a possibility, as does the Aston Martin works team or Renault if Ricciardo leaves.
Or is it back to the beginning with Alpha Tauri?

In lack of a competitive drive, Seb might also choose to retire or to take a sabbatical.

[Jag_Warrior]

Not sure about where Seb might land, but here's a wish for Daniel to get that open seat. :bounce:

[gm99]

Not sure about where Seb might land, but here's a wish for Daniel to get that open seat. :bounce:

I second that, as Ricciardo's talent gets a bit wasted at Renault. Apparently Sainz is the early favourite to replace Vettel, though.

Meanwhile, Seb's statement appears to hint at retirement:
"What’s been happening in these past few months has led many of us to reflect on what are our real priorities in life. One needs to use one’s imagination and to adopt a new approach to a situation that has changed. I myself will take the time I need to reflect on what really matters when it comes to my future."

[Nitrodaze]

Not surprising really. I could see how frustrated he has been with the Ferrari team. Some of the radio exchanges in 2018 and especially 2019 showed some bursting frustration with the team.

Some might say, Vettel failed to win a championship with Ferrari, but one could also say Ferrari failed to provide the car and opertational efficiency that would have facilitated Vettel to win a title in their car. Both sides made woefull mistakes.

Vettel is the second multiple world champion to depart Ferrari with discontent. That says something is very wrong here.

But where to for Vettel. But more importantly, who will take Vettels seat? To answer that question, we have to look at the state of the driver's market as most drivers are coming out of contract at the end of this COVID-19 battered season.

Hamilton is out of contract and currently in negotiations with Mercedes, Whom l think would be more keen than ever to wrap up the agreement asap now. A Hamilton switch to Ferreari has been in the grapevine for a while now and it seems like the sort of sensation that could happen in these crazy times.

Carlos Sainz has been suggested as a potential candidate for the Ferrari seat. Ricciado had talks with Ferrari in the past which were unfruitful. But this time round may be more conducive for both parties. Bottas is also a possibility because he is the most accomplished of the three. A wild outlier is the return of Alonso to Ferrari. It sounds far fetched but is equally likely. Equally far fetched is Verstapenn taking up the seat, but very likely if Ferrari put their mind to it.

So What about Vettel, where to from here?

One posibility is that he may retire early. After Canada, his heart did not seem to be in it anymore. He certainly has nothing else to prove. He has won four driver's title consecutively. I don't think there are many real contenders for that accolade.

The other possibility is, he swap seats with one of the Mercedes drivers. This one make more sense as he would be moving from one top team to another. But pairing up with Hamilton may be as unattractive as pairing up with Verstapenn in a Redbull. Redbull has stated that there is no way back to the team for Vettel. Which leaves the next best [non-Ferrari powered] teams, Mclaren or Racing Point. But can they afford him?

Vettel may well follow Alonso's path and head to Mclaren. They obviously look like a team on a clear upwards trajectory with their fourth place in the 2019 season. With the new rules coming into play in 2022, Mclaren would be a very good bet as a team likely to give him another shot at the driver's title.

That said, The racing point of 2020 looked like the car to snatch fourth spot this season. Unfortunately, we are deprived of seeing how well the Mercedes looking car would go. I doubt Racing point would be an attractive proposition for Vettel. The same could be said for Renault.

[gm99]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if McLaren would really want a former multiple world champion fresh out of a disappointing time at Ferrari looking for a fresh start with their team powered by a new engine ;)

[Nitrodaze]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if McLaren would really want a former multiple world champion fresh out of a disappointing time at Ferrari looking for a fresh start with their team powered by a new engine ;)

It all depends on how the musical chairs of the driver's market shapes out. But having a multiple world champion in a Mclaren would be a massive boost for the team. It would be beneficial for both parties as Vettel is still a very fast driver and still very capable of winning a driver's championship.

For Vettel, the methodical approach of how the Mclaren team operates would be a welcomed change. And it would provide him with the environment that would allow him to operate at his best. And l don't think the fact that Mclaren is powered by a Mercedes engine has any bearing on the matter.

He also comes with a wealth of experience that would be extremely beneficial to Mclaren. Unlike Alonso, he is more patient and very thorough in his approach to racing. He would work very well with Seidl who is also German.

I don't know if he is keen to stay in F1 at all cost and race in a midfield team that is going nowhere. I think he would rather retire. I would be very surprised if Mclaren do not make a move to have him in their car. There is more up side than downside for Mclaren in having him in their car.

I know most of us would rather see Ricciado get that seat if the Ferrari deal do not happen, but the fact remains that no other seat would be decided until Vettel's new deal has been sealed.

That said, Vettel in a Mercedes would be quite awesome l think.

[Jag_Warrior]

Vettel is the second multiple world champion to depart Ferrari with discontent.

If we look back a ways, there are several, right? Vettel, Alonso, Schumacher, Prost and Lauda (at least a little edge when he left, correct?) are the ones that come to mind right off the bat.



The more I think about it, the more I wonder if McLaren would really want a former multiple world champion fresh out of a disappointing time at Ferrari looking for a fresh start with their team powered by a new engine ;)

I see what you did there. :D

[Nitrodaze]

If we look back a ways, there are several, right? Vettel, Alonso, Schumacher, Prost and Lauda (at least a little edge when he left, correct?) are the ones that come to mind right off the bat.


I actually meant, multiple world champions that did not win a title with Ferrari before they left the team. And yes, we could include Prost if we have to go far back :-)

[Jag_Warrior]

Ah, gotcha.

[pantealex]

the fact remains that no other seat would be decided until Vettel's new deal has been sealed.



F e r r a r i doesn´t have to wait for Vettel deal

so order is

1) F e r r a r i

2) M e r c e d e s if their driver goes to F e r r a r i

3) V e t t e l

That´s how I think it is.

[Nitrodaze]

F e r r a r i doesn´t have to wait for Vettel deal

so order is

1) F e r r a r i

2) M e r c e d e s if their driver goes to F e r r a r i

3) V e t t e l

That´s how I think it is.

That's right. I was thinking besides Ferrari. If Mercedes do not go for Vettel, then you are absolutely correct. If Ferrari signs Hamilton for instance, then l think it is a no brainer that Mercedes would sign Vettel. The story is different, if Ferrari signs Bottas, then chances are they may promote Russell to partner Hamilton. In which case every other seat would only be dealt with after Vettel has signed somewhere.

Some media types are very quick to write off Vettel, l think there is still fight in the four time world champion. Hence, l would be very surprised if he hung up his helmet when the challenge to catch Hamilton on title wins is still on. Vettels would have to be a beaten man to hang up his Helmet now. I hope there is still some fire in his racing heart to want to carry on in another team. If that is the case, then Vettel would go out and get himself the best available seat out there.

In which case, Mercedes and Mclaren mostly, would have to justify not signing the best driver available at this moment in time.

[mr_swiss]

Looks like Sainz to Ferrari
Now the Dominos

Vettel to Renault
Ricciardo to Mercedes
Bottas to McLaren with Mercedes engines

[Nitrodaze]

Looks like Sainz to Ferrari
Now the Dominos

Vettel to Renault
Ricciardo to Mercedes
Bottas to McLaren with Mercedes engines

That would be a very interesting shuffle if it happened this way. Hamilton vs Ricciado would be a very entertaining mix. This would be Ricciado's best chance of winning a driver's title. Would Mclaren choose Bottas over Vettel? But Vettel to Renault is interesting. It would show that Renault means business about winning a championship. But can they?

[gm99]

Although Renault now, with Ricciardo & Norris confirmed at McLaren, seems to be the only halfway competitive seat available, IMO Vettel would be crazy to take it. Renault haven't been getting their shit together for quite a while now, neither in the engine nor the chassis department. Their performance last year was absolutely dismal, in spite of two very talented drivers. In addition, Seb would have to face French favourite Ocon as a team-mate. This would be a repeat of the situation at Ferrari last year, maybe worse, as Ocon does have a history of feuding with his team-mate.
About the only thing that speaks for Renault is that Vettel scored all of his championships powered by engines from Viry-Châtillon

[Nitrodaze]

Although Renault now, with Ricciardo & Norris confirmed at McLaren, seems to be the only halfway competitive seat available, IMO Vettel would be crazy to take it. Renault haven't been getting their shit together for quite a while now, neither in the engine nor the chassis department. Their performance last year was absolutely dismal, in spite of two very talented drivers. In addition, Seb would have to face French favourite Ocon as a team-mate. This would be a repeat of the situation at Ferrari last year, maybe worse, as Ocon does have a history of feuding with his team-mate.
About the only thing that speaks for Renault is that Vettel scored all of his championships powered by engines from Viry-Châtillon

The wise old head of Brundle got this one right; Sainz to Ferrari and Ricciado to Mclaren. It would seem Vettel is on his way out of F1. That said, Mercedes is yet to conclude their lineup for the 2021 season. Maybe there might be a change in the Mercedes lineup. Vettel might be too expensive for the Mclaren purse, Mercedes can surely afford him. But i doubt they would want to carry the cost of two heavy weight drivers with all the budget restrictions coming in soon.

Therefore Vettel to Renault seems to be the only real option for Vettel now or early retirement.

I would not write off Renault as a championship contender in the new era starting 2022. They look unattractive at this moment but may be a different proposition in 2022. As a works team, it might be a great new home for Vettel to rebuild a team around himself and take the fight to competition. He would be doing essentially the same as Hamilton, but we said that for Ricciado and look how that turned out.

There is also the question of whether Renault can afford Vettel? Is Renault going to be around in 2022 you might also ask?

[gm99]

If it's true, as German media report, that Vettel actually turned down a McLaren offer, then I don't see him drive for Renault, either. He's probably still hoping for a Mercedes offer or otherwise retire/take a year off.

I wouldn't count on Renault too much in the coming years; they are still partly owned by the French state and will most likely find it hard to justify a substantial investment in F1 in a post-corona environment.

[Jag_Warrior]

Although I'd like to see Vettel stay in the sport, I think that McLaren made the right choice. A younger, less mistake prone Ricciardo, who'd already dusted up Seb when they both raced for Red Bull, was probably an easy pick for McLaren. Zak Brown seemed to indicate that in an interview that he did with Sky Sports the other day. Plus he said that the deal with Ricciardo was already in place by the time Ferrari and Vettel parted ways. If Carlos left, Dan was already in line - not that F1 deals can't disappear.

I totally agree about Renault. Sad how they haven't been able to rebuild. IMO, they could have injected money into Lotus (taken a major ownership stake) and wound up with the same or better results than they're getting now. I think that Renault, Williams and Haas are all in need of management/team principle changes... especially Renault and Williams. But Claire is safe because of daddy. Even more so than Renault, it's really sad how that team has collapsed. Not really a Williams fan, but I'd hate to see them fold.

[Nitrodaze]

Although I'd like to see Vettel stay in the sport, I think that McLaren made the right choice. A younger, less mistake prone Ricciardo, who'd already dusted up Seb when they both raced for Red Bull, was probably an easy pick for McLaren. Zak Brown seemed to indicate that in an interview that he did with Sky Sports the other day. Plus he said that the deal with Ricciardo was already in place by the time Ferrari and Vettel parted ways. If Carlos left, Dan was already in line - not that F1 deals can't disappear.

I totally agree about Renault. Sad how they haven't been able to rebuild. IMO, they could have injected money into Lotus (taken a major ownership stake) and wound up with the same or better results than they're getting now. I think that Renault, Williams and Haas are all in need of management/team principle changes... especially Renault and Williams. But Claire is safe because of daddy. Even more so than Renault, it's really sad how that team has collapsed. Not really a Williams fan, but I'd hate to see them fold.

I think Zak is saving face on Vettel. I think they approached him with ridiculous money and Vettel told Mclaren to take a hike. The fact of the matter is that the FIA and The F1 management [liberty] are discussing capping driver's wages as part of the cost cap discussions. My guess is that Mclaren applied that principle to their talk with Vettel and it did not come out well.

Besides, Ricciado would not have accepted the Mclaren deal until he was sure he was discounted from the Ferrari seat. I think Ricciado was happy to take a pay cut to get the hell out of Renault.

The way the season is going, some teams may fold by the end of the year. The car industry appears to be hard hit by the COVID-19 pandemic. Which may be a factor in the Ferrari-Vettel split and why a cheaper Sainz was a good option for Ferrari at this point in time. For this reason alone, a Renault-Vettel partnership is highly unlikely.

If Renault stays in the sport for the 2021 season, my guess is that they may run two young drivers to keep their cost down to manageable levels. We may see a new face in F1 from the F2 brigade of drivers. Or the return of Hulkenburg.

[Bagwan]

" Or the return of Hulkenburg."

Or................................................ ........................Alonso .

[The Black Knight]

I cannot see Hulk returning to Renault, why would they want him? Alonso returning is the most likely scenario and he has apparently already agreed personal terms with the team. Vettel will either retire or replace Bottas at Mercedes. I think Mercedes know Vettel cannot match Hamilton over the course of a season. On the other hand, neither can Bottas so hard to see what they would gain from the situation.

Vettel to retire is the most likely scenario in my opinion.

[airshifter]

I really don't think Vettel will be considered by the top teams, as they have solid driver lineups. And I somewhat doubt he would consider a Renault level team, as his ego seems to remain at a higher level than his driving in recent years.

I see stepping away to retirement as the probable outcome.

If he does settle for a lesser team, maybe he can add to the list of car carnage he has created with his fellow team drivers. I think at some point he has taken out every team mate he has had, and usually in spectacular form. And the explanations are golden as well, as in his mind he is rarely if ever at fault. :laugh:

[Nitrodaze]

I cannot see Hulk returning to Renault, why would they want him? Alonso returning is the most likely scenario and he has apparently already agreed personal terms with the team. Vettel will either retire or replace Bottas at Mercedes. I think Mercedes know Vettel cannot match Hamilton over the course of a season. On the other hand, neither can Bottas so hard to see what they would gain from the situation.

Vettel to retire is the most likely scenario in my opinion.

Alonso would have to accept a significant pay cut for a seat at Renault. I wonder if his ego would allow him to accept that. He is desperate enough to accept a pay cut, so why not. But if not, then Renault's alternative would have to be either Hulkenburg or someone from their driver academy. Or a money bag driver.

You ask why would they want him, well he has more experience than a rookie and is still a good fit for Renault at this stage of their development. They are not contesting for championship anytime soon. So why not a development driver like Hulkenburg. That said, l hope they sign Alonso. His presence in the paddock is always a wellcomed experience.

[N4D13]

Alonso would have to accept a significant pay cut for a seat at Renault. I wonder if his ego would allow him to accept that. He is desperate enough to accept a pay cut, so why not. But if not, then Renault's alternative would have to be either Hulkenburg or someone from their driver academy. Or a money bag driver.

You ask why would they want him, well he has more experience than a rookie and is still a good fit for Renault at this stage of their development. They are not contesting for championship anytime soon. So why not a development driver like Hulkenburg. That said, l hope they sign Alonso. His presence in the paddock is always a wellcomed experience.
I agree that having Alonso would be a boost for Renault and F1, but I can't really see him returning to F1. His only realistic chance to fight for wins was a very outside chance of a Ferrari seat, which we know was very unlikely. From all we know, he left because he didn't want to be racing in the midfield, and I can't see how Renault would be able to offer him any assurances that his F1 return would be any different.

He has chances of getting a competitive drive in many other series, and is a sponsor magnet, so it's not unlikely that he'd turn down a mediocre F1 seat for a contender in WEC or wherever.

Regarding Hülkenberg, I wish Renault would give him the seat. It would be pretty ironic, though, to have the French team make him the scapegoat for what was essentially a crap car, and then hire him back a year later. But I have a soft spot for the Hulk and I think that he's an underrated driver who'd give many of the top names in the sport a run for their money. Anyway, he seems like the most sensible choice for Renault now, assuming Alonso turns them down.

As for Vettel, I agree with everything that has been said so far - can't see him signing up to drive a yellow teapot. A sabbatical is looking more and more likely. Retirement, on the other hand... I get the impression that he'd eventually try a return à la Schumacher.

And something that hasn't been brought up so far - what do we know about when the Haas drivers' contracts expire? And George Russell? I wouldn't be surprised to see Russell jumping ship at some point, particularly if Williams folds, which is not completely unexpected. We haven't heard much from Grove ever since this mess broke out...

[zako85]

As for Vettel, I agree with everything that has been said so far - can't see him signing up to drive a yellow teapot. A sabbatical is looking more and more likely. Retirement, on the other hand... I get the impression that he'd eventually try a return à la Schumacher.


It is not too late for Vettel to turn around his career. He should just follow these four easy steps:

1. Move back to UK and join a quintessentially British team such as McLaren or Williams.
2. Change the spelling of his last name from Vettel to Vettle.
3. ?????
4. Profit!!1!!!

[Nitrodaze]

I agree that having Alonso would be a boost for Renault and F1, but I can't really see him returning to F1. His only realistic chance to fight for wins was a very outside chance of a Ferrari seat, which we know was very unlikely. From all we know, he left because he didn't want to be racing in the midfield, and I can't see how Renault would be able to offer him any assurances that his F1 return would be any different.

He has chances of getting a competitive drive in many other series, and is a sponsor magnet, so it's not unlikely that he'd turn down a mediocre F1 seat for a contender in WEC or wherever.

Regarding Hülkenberg, I wish Renault would give him the seat. It would be pretty ironic, though, to have the French team make him the scapegoat for what was essentially a crap car, and then hire him back a year later. But I have a soft spot for the Hulk and I think that he's an underrated driver who'd give many of the top names in the sport a run for their money. Anyway, he seems like the most sensible choice for Renault now, assuming Alonso turns them down.

As for Vettel, I agree with everything that has been said so far - can't see him signing up to drive a yellow teapot. A sabbatical is looking more and more likely. Retirement, on the other hand... I get the impression that he'd eventually try a return à la Schumacher.

And something that hasn't been brought up so far - what do we know about when the Haas drivers' contracts expire? And George Russell? I wouldn't be surprised to see Russell jumping ship at some point, particularly if Williams folds, which is not completely unexpected. We haven't heard much from Grove ever since this mess broke out...

Magnussen and Grojean have contract till the end of this current season [2020]. Haas has not revealed their driver lineup for the 2021 season. There are some concerns that Haas may exit F1 at the end of this season. We have not heard any chatter to the contrary at the mo.

George Russell is in the second of his three year contract with Williams. He would be out of contract at the start of the new regulation era in 2022. He is also on the shortlist for one of the Mercedes seats along with Ocon and Vettel. Chances are that there may be no change at Mercedes this season and next. Bottas has done enough to ensure he has a seat next season at least.

But crazy things do happen.

[N4D13]

Magnussen and Grojean have contract till the end of this current season [2020]. Haas has not revealed their driver lineup for the 2021 season. There are some concerns that Haas may exit F1 at the end of this season. We have not heard any chatter to the contrary at the mo.

George Russell is in the second of his three year contract with Williams. He would be out of contract at the start of the new regulation era in 2022. He is also on the shortlist for one of the Mercedes seats along with Ocon and Vettel. Chances are that there may be no change at Mercedes this season and next. Bottas has done enough to ensure he has a seat next season at least.

But crazy things do happen.
Thanks for the info. In that case, if I was at Enstone, I'd certainly be on the phone with Magnussen and Grosjean, because either of them might actually be enticed to join a factory team. In particular, Grosjean knows the team already, was a regular podium contender in 2012-13 and has the added benefit of being a French driver, although I'm not sure about how amicable their split was. It's surprising that his name hasn't come up in the press in regards to the Renault seat, because he's a very obvious candidate if available.