Why I am an IRL fan....

[ChicagocrewIRL]

First and foremost, the reason I chose the IRL and not CART, when the split happened in 96, is for one reason and one reason alone........................... The Indianapolis 500.

To me, the 500 transcends all politics, all personalities, all egos, all bickering, all arguments about superiority, EVERYTHING. It transcends EVERYTHING there is in motorsports.

What other event can claim a heritage that goes back to the very beginnings of the start of automotive technology? I may be wrong, but there is no other series or race that can trace its roots all the way back to 1911. What other event can bring hundreds of thousands of people together all in one spot and one day to celebrate motorsport competition ?

Growing up in southern Indiana, in Tony Stewart's hometown, the 500 was a rite of summer. It marked the years for me and my family not New Year's day.
I remember having heated debates when I was in first grade about whether AJ Foyt was a cheater or not(beacause he was so good), and Danny Sullivan spinning in front of Mario, Johnny Rutherford's yellow cars and Roberto Guerrero breaking my heart a few times.

Indy is life to me and it is the definition of competititve sport for me.

CART held no appeal for me solely because they did not run at Indy. And as CART went on and eliminated oval after oval off the schedule, it became even clearer to me which series I would follow.

My loyalty to the IRL has NOTHING to do with Tony George. To me, he is a necessary cog in the life of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. I don't like the man, I don't like the way he has run things, I don't like that he has opened up IMS to other forms of racing, but I suppose those things were all necessary to keep the 500 going. Indy transcends his involvement. If tomorrow CCWS bought or acquired everything having to do with Indianapolis , I would switch allegiances without even thinking about it.

For this motorsports fan, Indianapolis Motor Speedway and the Indianapolis 500 ARE motorsports. This time of year is always so special to me. It is the best time of my year. It is my autoracing life.

[Toe_Knee_Jorge]

"For this motorsports fan, Indianapolis Motor Speedway and the Indianapolis 500 ARE motorsports. This time of year is always so special to me. It is the best time of my year. It is my autoracing life"

Well said

I was there today ran into Parnelli Jones pretty cool

noting beats the Speedway in may

cars, cool guys and girls in jump suits and girls in the stands you know you're living right

[Hayden Fan]

First and foremost, the reason I chose the IRL and not CART, when the split happened in 96, is for one reason and one reason alone........................... The Indianapolis 500.

To me, the 500 transcends all politics, all personalities, all egos, all bickering, all arguments about superiority, EVERYTHING. It transcends EVERYTHING there is in motorsports.

What other event can claim a heritage that goes back to the very beginnings of the start of automotive technology? I may be wrong, but there is no other series or race that can trace its roots all the way back to 1911. What other event can bring hundreds of thousands of people together all in one spot and one day to celebrate motorsport competition ?

Growing up in southern Indiana, in Tony Stewart's hometown, the 500 was a rite of summer. It marked the years for me and my family not New Year's day.
I remember having heated debates when I was in first grade about whether AJ Foyt was a cheater or not(beacause he was so good), and Danny Sullivan spinning in front of Mario, Johnny Rutherford's yellow cars and Roberto Guerrero breaking my heart a few times.

Indy is life to me and it is the definition of competititve sport for me.

CART held no appeal for me solely because they did not run at Indy. And as CART went on and eliminated oval after oval off the schedule, it became even clearer to me which series I would follow.

My loyalty to the IRL has NOTHING to do with Tony George. To me, he is a necessary cog in the life of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. I don't like the man, I don't like the way he has run things, I don't like that he has opened up IMS to other forms of racing, but I suppose those things were all necessary to keep the 500 going. Indy transcends his involvement. If tomorrow CCWS bought or acquired everything having to do with Indianapolis , I would switch allegiances without even thinking about it.

For this motorsports fan, Indianapolis Motor Speedway and the Indianapolis 500 ARE motorsports. This time of year is always so special to me. It is the best time of my year. It is my autoracing life.

You are dead wrong. TG is politics. That is why he caused the split. Egos include TG, Penske, Marco and Mikey, Danica, Sam hornish, and all you fans. Bickering IRL people include Danica's "I have great equipment, but I still suck so lets still blame the equipment." Otr Marco's "I am scared". And arguments over superiortity is still preached by you fans, TG, the teams. Rahal once quoted that CC is not a viable series anymore. And to you thing about no other series beng around since 1911. Well, CC has been around since 1911, but the IRL has only been around since 1996. If Indy is life to you, then you must be very, very depressed. And hasn't TG every year for the past what 3 years been cutting ovals to be more like CART? What happened to Pikes Pike, Fontana? Cut to make room for Detroit, Mid Ohio. And wasn't CC adding ovals around that time. Gateway, Homestead, Fontana ring a bell? I like how you do not like TG and all, but what I don't get is how you can support a series that he started and runs?

[Hayden Fan]

Another question to ChicagocrewIRL, how many people were at Homestead? Hmmmm? And how many were at Las Vegas? Hmmmmm? I bet you CC had triple the attendence the irl did. What is you favorite flavored kool-aid? Lemon or orange? Oh, I forgot all TG fans drink that bitter kool-aid scooped up out of the pond at Indy. Why does Indy take a whole month? With only what 20-something cars, you could get this stuff done in 2 days. And if Indy is so special to racing, why is their not 40 cars ready to qualify and drivers like Unser Jnr. being dragged back in only months after a DUI and Andretti Snr. being brought in to see if he can finally win?

[ChicagocrewIRL]

It's sad to see envy, hatred, pettiness, and negativity. My post was merely stating my love of the Indianapolis 500 and why I watch and support the series that runs there. I'm not going to get into pointless bickering with any CCWS fan. I know you all love your series and your hatred of Tony George is gonna eat you all up. And the thing is, there really isn't anything you can do about it. CART abandoned the Indy 500. That's why I don't really don't care about it.

(blah blah blah about the 8/25 rule, CART teams could have chosen to still run. They didn't)

In the end, it's all about the Indianapolis 500 . NOT TONY GEORGE, NOT HAYDEN FAN, NOT CHICAGOCREWIRL.......NOTHING ELSE .

End end end end end end end . thank you very much have a nice day
cheers to you and yours, I love the smell of Ethanol in the morning.

You may not care about the heritage and history of the Indianapolis 500, but a lot of people do. They are the one's who's opinions really matter. Hate Tony George all you want. More power to you.

Go watch Zhuhai. Thank you

P S I like the apoplectic nature of your post. It's entertaining.

[Hayden Fan]

You shouldn't be smelling ethanol. That kills brain cells.

[Hayden Fan]

If Indy was the place to be then why is therre no talent in your race, only one engine manufactuer, one chassis supplier? You must love things that are only half of what they could have been.

[LTalbot]

Chicago, I understand what you are saying, but you have to be in at least a bit of denial because Indy is not the Indy of my childhood and it simply cannot be the Indy of yours either. To me one chassis, one engine and no turbo is boring. The great traditions of the 500 was race what ya brought, 33 fastest get in. Indy simply is not the same.

[ACTF_ZETT]

Ahh May, the month of jealous CART fans. Whens your next race? June 10th? Have a nice month off as the world brings its focus to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

The speeds are tight, and we have had 27 cars on track already. I know this is not like years past, but it looks like there will be some bumping this year. 21 cars have been over 220MPH, and the top 21 cars are within 1 second of each other. Three females entering the race, as well as 6 former Indy 500 winners. This is still drama at its highest in racing as it has always been, this is racing fast and on the edge of out of control, this is the Indy Racing League.

[Hayden Fan]

World brings it focus to Indy? Really. I didn't know 27 teams were the world. Huh? Small world isn't it.

[Hayden Fan]

Also, if I am not mistaken, didn't CC drivers sweep Indy a few years ago?

[ACTF_ZETT]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuwPNlrRYm4

No talent in the race? Hayden Fan you are truly not a race fan making a comment like that.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

World brings it focus to Indy? Really. I didn't know 27 teams were the world. Huh? Small world isn't it.

I just have to smile and chuckle at bitter immature CCWS fans poo pooing on everything that isn't part of their fun filled world. I really don't hate CCWS. I do enjoy some of the races when the IRL isn't racing but man, SOME, not all, of the people that follow that series are just the most negative hate filled individuals I have ever encountered.

I celebrate Indianapolis every May. I don't hate anyone or anything. Just sad to see all the hatred emanating from SOME of what I read on here. sad sad sad

peace and love peace and love

Zhuhai ROCKS !!!!!

[ChicagocrewIRL]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuwPNlrRYm4

No talent in the race? Hayden Fan you are truly not a race fan making a comment like that.

He is 17. We must cut him some slack.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I'm beginning to regret starting this thread. <sigh> All I wanted to do was express my joy at being a life long fan of THE greatest race in the world. <sigh>

and Zhuhai still ROCKS !!!!

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Also, if I am not mistaken, didn't CC drivers sweep Indy a few years ago?

Yes, I guess THEY DID need milk.

[uncre8tv]

I'd like to see the attendance figures for CC vs IRL. I know the seats were packed in KC. And this long after the split the average sports fan (not motorsports fan, mind you) is just aware of "Indy Cars" and then the rest is gobledygook. I could easily imagine a casual fan confusing Champ Cars with Sprint Cars, and figuring the vehicle before them is either an "Indy Car" or one of them F1 thingers if they see it on TV.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I'm not sure why the IRL doesn't have turnstyles at its events. Would love to know attendance no matter how small or large.

[Komahawk]

Chicago, nothing wrong with sharing your emotions on Indy and racing. But the Zhuhai-comments were really out of place. It's not CC's fans' fault that their series is what it is. I support the IRL too, but most of all I'd like a (re)united series with 20+ races, half oval half road schedule including Indy, whoever is in charge. And if I have nothing positive to post about CC then I rather post nothing at all. Why waste time and energy with hate-comments? The problem will solve itself rather sooner than later.

[BobGarage]

I'm beginning to regret starting this thread. <sigh> All I wanted to do was express my joy at being a life long fan of THE greatest race in the world. <sigh>



you posted in the wrong forum then, the i500 has, for a long time, not been the greatest race in the world!

[Toe_Knee_Jorge]

and what is BobGarage ?

[Apollo]

I'd like to see the attendance figures for CC vs IRL. I know the seats were packed in KC. And this long after the split the average sports fan (not motorsports fan, mind you) is just aware of "Indy Cars" and then the rest is gobledygook. I could easily imagine a casual fan confusing Champ Cars with Sprint Cars, and figuring the vehicle before them is either an "Indy Car" or one of them F1 thingers if they see it on TV.

Yeah, sure "Packed."
http://www.autoracing1.com/Images/2007/IRL/Kansas/DanicaStop.jpg

We can't compare figures because the IRL doesn't release them any more. CC ratings are up from last year while IRL ratings have apparently fell from .9 at Homestead to a .2 for Kansas. Oddly at both races Dannica managed to crash in the pits, that's talent for you.

[BobGarage]

well that is packed by IRL standards.

just look at the crowds that "packed" the stands at homestead...

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/irl/2007/hom/irl-2007-hom-tm-0167.jpg

[ACTF_ZETT]

Thats a nice picture of backstretch stands at a racing facility that seats tens of thousands of people. Wheres the main straightaway picture?

Now post the picture of the CCWS fans on a street sitting on a baseball bleachers that they rolled across the street from a park.

[ACTF_ZETT]

You guys need to stop coming onto the IRL forums to drum up crap. Were here to talk IRL racing and Indy 500. If you dont like IRL then quit looking at the IRL forum. You couldnt pay me to go look at the CART forum.

[ACTF_ZETT]

And as a FYI, in all types of racing there are accidents in the pits, in IRL, NASCAR, F1, and yes even CCWS. Even spinning out entering the pits like Danica did.

[BobGarage]

You couldnt pay me to go look at the CART forum.

your the odd one out then, as most of the other "regulars" int he IRL forum spend more time in the champ car forum than they do in this one ;)

[Alfa Fan]

You're such a troll Bob! :rolleyes:

[ACTF_ZETT]

Ok back on topic here. I am with you Chicagofan. Basically my entire year is a countdown to May. This year will be my 12th Indianapolis 500. This will be my dads 32nd Indianapolis 500. My grandfather, who has passed on, went even longer. I am an IRL fan, I watch every IRL race, but Indianapolis is where it is at when it comes to motorsports. The series has struggled, but come Memorial Day weekend, the stands fill up for a reason, the Indianapolis 500 is still the greatest race in the world. There are great moments every year and memories are made that last a lifetime. My first memory if Indy is going to pole day. This is before my dad could get me a ticket for the race. The entire place is just magic, espically for kids, but almost just as much for adults.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Chicago, nothing wrong with sharing your emotions on Indy and racing. But the Zhuhai-comments were really out of place. It's not CC's fans' fault that their series is what it is. I support the IRL too, but most of all I'd like a (re)united series with 20+ races, half oval half road schedule including Indy, whoever is in charge. And if I have nothing positive to post about CC then I rather post nothing at all. Why waste time and energy with hate-comments? The problem will solve itself rather sooner than later.


Uhm, saying "Zhuhai rocks!" is hate filled ??? I have to laugh at that assertion.
Apparently you haven't read the love filled posts by our young friend above.
Like I said, bickering is pointless. I love Indianapolis and I follow the Indy Racing League solely because it runs the 500.

People can say Indy isnt what it used to be, all they want. To me it IS and always will be, The Greatest Spectacle in Racing and I really don't care about the negativity and angst spewed by SOME, again I say SOME, on the other side. I have nothing against CCWS. I enjoy the races when IndyCars aren't running.

peace and love peace and love

[Apollo]

People can say Indy isnt what it used to be, all they want. To me it IS and always will be, The Greatest Spectacle in Racing and I really don't care about the negativity and angst spewed by SOME, again I say SOME, on the other side. I have nothing against CCWS. I enjoy the races when IndyCars aren't running.


Uhm, have you never heard of the Dakar Rally? 300 vehicles from 30 countries running over desert terrian for two weeks?

Monoco?

Le Mans?

Iditorod?

Tour De France?

Whitbread?

The Triple Crown Derby?

Daytona 500?

When it comes to spectacle sure the Indy 500 might have been one of the premier races in the world, but since the split its been largely a parade pumping life support into an otherwise failed series. If you think the Indy 500 in its current state is one of the greatest races in world you really need to expand your horizons a bit.

As it stands now the Indy 500 isn't even in the top ten, truthfully it probably ranks behind the U.S. Grand Prix and the Brickard 400.

[ACTF_ZETT]

Uhm, have you never heard of the Dakar Rally? 300 vehicles from 30 countries running over desert terrian for two weeks?

Monoco?

Le Mans?

Iditorod?

Tour De France?

Whitbread?

The Triple Crown Derby?

Daytona 500?

When it comes to spectacle sure the Indy 500 might have been one of the premier races in the world, but since the split its been largely a parade pumping life support into an otherwise failed series. If you think the Indy 500 in its current state is one of the greatest races in world you really need to expand your horizons a bit.

As it stands now the Indy 500 isn't even in the top ten, truthfully it probably ranks behind the U.S. Grand Prix and the Brickard 400.

If it isnt still one of the greatest races in the world then why do more people attend it than any of the races you listed above.

Please return to CART forums.

[MarcoCheever]

I'm really getting a kick out of these replys

Internet tuff guys !

instead of just the love of racing and the Indianapolis 500 they just bash it.


///slashes for everyone

[cybersdorf]

If it isnt still one of the greatest races in the world then why do more people attend it than any of the races you listed above.

Please return to CART forums.
Le Mans and Dakar don't belong in the CART forum. Makes it complex.

[Apollo]

If it isnt still one of the greatest races in the world then why do more people attend it than any of the races you listed above.

Please return to CART forums.

Since I've been warned not to disagree with IRL Fans I'll just state a few facts. The first of which being CART is dead and buried.

Daytona 500 attendance was somewhere around 250,000, so about even or slightly more than the 500 draw.

Although no official figures have been released the Brickyard 400 is widely believed to out draw the 500 for the last five or more years.

The Kentucky Derby had a crowd of 156,635 including the Queen of England. In total the Triple Crown will see 1.5 times the attendance at the Indy 500.

Both of those events were ranked in the top 10 of Forbes event brand value. The 500 didn't make the list, which means it cannot be the greatest spectecal in racing. You can think that, but its not true..

http://www.forbes.com/2007/01/30/sports-brands-superbowl-biz-cz_ps_0131mvse.html

Dakar and Whitbread arent a spectator sports.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I merely stated that the reason I am a fan of the IRL is because it runs THE Indianapolis 500. NO OTHER MOTORSPORTS EVENT has it's heritage and stature. thank you

PEACE AND LOVE PEACE AND LOVE

[Toe_Knee_Jorge]

some people need to watch the Secret

I Love The Indy 500 !

[ChicagocrewIRL]

some people need to watch the Secret

I Love The Indy 500 !

Peace and love Peace and love

:)

[SFChamp]

You could fly me out in a G-5 and let me sit in TG's Box and I still would not go for what this idiot has done to racing. Give me a brake The 500 has lost all appeal to me along with so many others. Now if there were a merged series with 50/50 ownership heck I would be the first one in line to come on out to
Indy.

SF Champ

[Hayden Fan]

Can't merger. TG does not want it.

[Toe_Knee_Jorge]

the troll-fu is stong today

while some people whine I'll be sitting in the sunshine eating a tenderloin watching fast cars and pretty girls at the track

[Hayden Fan]

Oh, nevermind.

[ACTF_ZETT]

Indy Dogs, Brickyard Burgers, sunshine, speed.....

[Komahawk]

Daytona outdraws Indy on ticket sales? On Race Day?

[ACTF_ZETT]

This thread needs to be either locked or deleted because this is out of control. I come here to talk about IRL, not get into a bitchfest with CART fans.

[Hayden Fan]

Hey, who said I was a CC fan? I never did. I just spoke what is to be the truth. I asked serious questions about the IRL. And what did I get. No anwsers. Just a bunch of whiners who are purposly avoiding the questions because they know their series is in a deep hole. I can take IRL. Hey, did you hear TG is bringing back no-so-little Al. Michael Andretti is also coming back. And hey, did you also hear, Milka crashed today. Thank God she was not hurt, but I could see that one coming like a bullet train.

[ChicagocrewIRL]

Hayden Fan and Apollo
I didn't mean to get anyone banned. I'm sorry

[indycool]

If their trolls had any degree of accuracy, they might be taken more seriously. But 250,000 at the Daytona 500? More than the Indy 500? Gimme a break.

[Jag_Warrior]

As I've shared with Indycool, I don't think a true fan of ANY sport or series looks at ratings or commercial values, as he decides whether or not to remain a fan. On that point, I think we both agree. So I wouldn't argue with ChicagocrewIRL's personal feelings about the Indy 500, being his reason for following the IRL, any more than I would expect him to argue with me about my preference in car brands, or my preference for brunettes over blondes and redheads. It's all about personal preference. And just as it's pointless to tell someone what they shouldn't enjoy, it's equally pointless to tell someone what they should enjoy... or make a sarcastic comment, while feigning an attempt at taking the high road. :rolleyes:

Though his motivations may have been suspect, Apollo's link to the Forbes article, dealing with 2006 sporting event commercial values, was very interesting, IMO. Personally, I was very surprised that the Indy 500 was not (or was no longer) in the Top 10. I found that interesting, since the Daytona 500 was #4 and the Kentucky Derby was #8. But my mother is a diehard fan of the Kentucky Derby - we've watched it together every year since I moved back to this area. The fact that it is #8, and not #7 or #6, does not affect our enjoyment of the race. But knowing that sponsorship begets sponsorship, its relatively high commercial value may draw more sponsors and (casual) fans to the race. With the Kentucky Derby's 2007 Nielsen ratings being roughly equal with the best ratings since 1992, maybe that is already being seen there. It doesn't affect me or my mom, but it's always good for the sport/series when more people are coming in than going out. Maybe, sooner than later, the powers that be in AOWR will figure that out. This constant battle to try to show the (uncaring) public that it's really the other guy's s### that stinks, just turns people off. Both series' biggest races are down 50% or more in the Nielsens. Does anyone here enjoy talking to recently divorced people at parties? No? Yeah, neither do most other people. You try to avoid them...

As for Indy, if you still enjoy it, you should watch or attend. If you don't, you shouldn't watch or attend. This decade long p!ssing contest is one reason the sport of AOWR is where it is, IMO. And neither side is innocent.

[F1boat]

Indy 500 is the race. Still. The atmosphere, the passion... nothing can match it.

[Jag_Warrior]

Indy 500 is the race. Still. The atmosphere, the passion... nothing can match it.

Insert "Daytona 500", and that's what most NASCAR fans would probably say, F1boat. Right?

A friend of mine has a brother who is a doctor in Florida. He has the F1 or ALMS stereotype written all over him: Porsche Turbo in the garage, Jag XJR as a daily driver, making deep into six figures and a young trophy wife to boot. Around me, he has never expressed any interest in F1, ALMS, Le Mans, IRL/Indy 500, Champ Car/CART or anything besides NASCAR (though I think he and his brother used to follow CART and Indy in the early 90's). He goes to the Daytona 500 with his buddies every year and invited me along a couple of years ago. I joked with him that I could get us a good deal on a private jet, and he should take me along for a weekend at the Monaco Grand Prix instead. He looked at me, and said in a deadpan voice (this works when you imagine a deep Indian accent)... "NASCAR Nation, baby. NASCAR Nation!"

Enjoy whatever makes you happy - that's all that matters. What other people think or say shouldn't matter. As I hope the OP realizes, you don't have to put down a Chinese CCWS race (or NASCAR) to better enjoy the Indy 500... unless that enjoyment is fleeting.

[-Helix-]

Although I still enjoy the Indy 500 it is not anywhere near what it used to be. It USED to be the centerpiece of autoracing. Even for non-Americans. Today you're lucky to even know it still exists if you live outside Indiana. Nowadays people would rather hear what Dale Jr. had for breakfast than who drank the milk in victory lane at Indy.

And if you think the Indy 500 is still as great as it used to be, you're delusional. As AOW has fallen apart, so too has the Indy 500 gotten worse. And there isn't much hope for the future either.

I wish I could ignore all the negativity and politics like you, but I am a fan of AOW (every series) and I can't look past the horrible state of the sport to enjoy myself as much as I used to.

[CARTDM15]

The only problem is that the 500 may still be great to all of you .But the fact is that the 500 is no longer making the general public open wheel races fans like it has done in the past.I think that is what people mean when they say the 500 is not what it use to be.Just like everybody says about well attended Champcar street races its not making any one fans of the series.The only star the race had created lately was Danica and that was because she was a female.And her star power is fading quickly.

You just can't leave out the politics of the 500 when you have Milka Dunno in the field and not Sebastien Bourdas or Paul Tracy.

[Alexamateo]

You just can't leave out the politics of the 500 when you have Milka Dunno in the field and not Sebastien Bourdas or Paul Tracy.

Nothing is preventing them from running. Milka is there because her sports car team (SAMAX) bought cars, leased motors and entered her in the race. They have the same option as anyone, and were sent information packets on costs and leases. If they are not there this year, it's not politics, it's choice.

[Bob Riebe]

As I've shared with Indycool, I don't think a true fan of ANY sport or series looks at ratings or commercial values, as he decides whether or not to remain a fan. On that point, I think we both agree. So I wouldn't argue with ChicagocrewIRL's personal feelings about the Indy 500, being his reason for following the IRL, any more than I would expect him to argue with me about my preference in car brands, or my preference for brunettes over blondes and redheads. It's all about personal preference. And just as it's pointless to tell someone what they shouldn't enjoy, it's equally pointless to tell someone what they should enjoy... or make a sarcastic comment, while feigning an attempt at taking the high road. :rolleyes:

Though his motivations may have been suspect, Apollo's link to the Forbes article, dealing with 2006 sporting event commercial values, was very interesting, IMO. Personally, I was very surprised that the Indy 500 was not (or was no longer) in the Top 10. I found that interesting, since the Daytona 500 was #4 and the Kentucky Derby was #8. But my mother is a diehard fan of the Kentucky Derby - we've watched it together every year since I moved back to this area. The fact that it is #8, and not #7 or #6, does not affect our enjoyment of the race. But knowing that sponsorship begets sponsorship, its relatively high commercial value may draw more sponsors and (casual) fans to the race. With the Kentucky Derby's 2007 Nielsen ratings being roughly equal with the best ratings since 1992, maybe that is already being seen there. It doesn't affect me or my mom, but it's always good for the sport/series when more people are coming in than going out. Maybe, sooner than later, the powers that be in AOWR will figure that out. This constant battle to try to show the (uncaring) public that it's really the other guy's s### that stinks, just turns people off. Both series' biggest races are down 50% or more in the Nielsens. Does anyone here enjoy talking to recently divorced people at parties? No? Yeah, neither do most other people. You try to avoid them...

As for Indy, if you still enjoy it, you should watch or attend. If you don't, you shouldn't watch or attend. This decade long p!ssing contest is one reason the sport of AOWR is where it is, IMO. And neither side is innocent.

The Derby got a boost because of the mourning over the death of last years winner.
Earnhart Jr. is still riding on the reputation and death of his father.
If Sr. was still alive, Junior would be second fiddle and NASCAR would walk softly fearing that-the new NASCAR-might cause Sr. to say, "I have enough money. I don't need this hack organization anymoe".

All the NASCAR this and NASCAR that seems to imply that a lot of posters, are tuned into Fox's money tree sports network, often.

Bob

[F1boat]

Nothing is preventing them from running. Milka is there because her sports car team (SAMAX) bought cars, leased motors and entered her in the race. They have the same option as anyone, and were sent information packets on costs and leases. If they are not there this year, it's not politics, it's choice.

Well said.
Besides, when the green goes down, Indy 500 is still Indy 500!

[Jag_Warrior]

The Derby got a boost because of the mourning over the death of last years winner.
Earnhart Jr. is still riding on the reputation and death of his father.
If Sr. was still alive, Junior would be second fiddle and NASCAR would walk softly fearing that-the new NASCAR-might cause Sr. to say, "I have enough money. I don't need this hack organization anymoe".

All the NASCAR this and NASCAR that seems to imply that a lot of posters, are tuned into Fox's money tree sports network, often.

Bob

All possibilities and contributing factors, Bob, but that's not 100% of the story. It's not as if this was like Danicamania, where the Derby hadn't seen a boost in ratings in many years. When NBC got the Derby in 2001, they went on a mission to "sell" the race to the public. IMO, they did a much better job than ABC had done in later years, and their efforts were rewarded with a 26% ratings boost the first year of the new contract. Barbaro did what other horses have done over the years: he captured the public's attention. The horse was personified in 2006. So yes, his injury and death in 2007, drew attention. But horses such as War Emblem, Monarcho and (especially) Smarty Jones (in '04), also captured the public's attention over the past few years. So the ratings trend, commercial value and rights fees for the Triple Crown keep increasing.

As for NASCAR and Dale... if he was still alive, he'd be 56 years old now. And while I believe that his fans would be just as loyal and enthusiastic, I don't know that he would still be a factor on the track. Do I think NASCAR would listen to him, even in retirement? Somewhat. But in its half century existence, NASCAR has never jumped through hoops for ANY driver. Several have been favored (Pearson, Petty, Earnhardt, Gordon). But in NASCAR, even successful drivers know their place.

As for the money tree network comment, I don't know what that means. I mean, it is what it is. A lot of AOWR fans seem to believe that NASCAR "lucked" or cheated the poor lil open wheel series on its way to the top. Stock car racing is not my preferred form of racing. But I do realize that in any business, if you have a good plan, remain focused and work hard, success tends to come your way. NASCAR has done that - and it shows. The two American open wheel series have not done that - and it shows.

One thing that, IMO, NASCAR drivers and the Triple Crown runners have in common: they are personified as heroes. Other than Danica, could the average American even name another AOWR driver? That's not NASCAR's fault. And that more Americans now follow the story behind the roses than the milk, that's not the fault of anyone at Churchill Downs. It simply is what it is.

[Alexamateo]

Several very good posts Jag. I also wanted to add that the movie Seabiscuit also contributed to recent general interest in the Kentucky Derby. It also only is 2 minutes long, or 30 minutes to do lineups, the race and post-race interviews, whereas the 500 consumes 3.5-4 hours at least. Don't know if there's a solution in our attention deficit world, but I think this is also an issue.

[FerrrariF1]

The Indy 500 was great when it was a stand alone race....the best drivers from all over the world came over in their own designs and multiple engines. It was the month of May at Indy with none of this bogus qualifying procedures. It has become the three top teams throwing their drivers out there and if they made a mistake just run them again. Once again George has ruined the month of May and the tradition of the Indy Speedway. He has destroyed what his grandfather has built up. Pole day was tens of thousands in the stands not a few thousand. Pole day was blow your engine or too slow and your on the bubble or out. Don't make it take a hike. All this procedure ensures is that Penske/Ganassi and AGR are in the field which is just about 1/3 the field. It also goes to show you who really runs the series. When Penske didn't make the field because they were too slow that is what the Indy 500 was all about. Now too slow no problem throw them out again for two more runs. Still too slow come back the next day for three more attempts....still too slow come back day three for three more attempts and still too slow come back on day four for three more attempts. Is that what Indy is all about?
Why bother just award starting positions like NASCAR does....too slow don't worry you have enough points you have a slot in the race.

BOGUS JUST BOGUS :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Jag_Warrior]

Several very good posts Jag. I also wanted to add that the movie Seabiscuit also contributed to recent general interest in the Kentucky Derby. It also only is 2 minutes long, or 30 minutes to do lineups, the race and post-race interviews, whereas the 500 consumes 3.5-4 hours at least. Don't know if there's a solution in our attention deficit world, but I think this is also an issue.

I hadn't thought about the movie, but I think you're right. Whether it's movies or general news stories, it never hurts to have your story in front of the public's eyes.

As for time, the Daytona 500 generally goes on longer than the Indy 500, since the cars are slower. So we have to ask, why are Daytona's ratings now roughly twice those of the Indy 500? It did not used to be that way. Interestingly, it was in '95 or '96 that Daytona surpassed Indy's ratings - and has never looked back.

I think you're onto something though. The world has changed... is ever changing. And though I hate them, the recent popularity of reality shows demonstrates that the American people WANT human interest programming. Even when the human interest involves a life form with four legs, that still seems to be a key ingredient. NASCAR has their cast of characters. F1 has the legendary fame of Ferrari and McLaren... and I understand Ron Dennis has a special body guard in place just to keep Bernie Ecclestone from kissing Lewis Hamilton. :D From his race, to his looks, to his age, to his brother's disability... to his talent and skill, a kid from humble beginnings is doing great things for F1 right now.

Other than kidnapping Lewis Hamilton, Michael Schumacher, Jeff Gordon and Dale, Jr., and forcing ( :( ) them to drive open wheel formula cars in the U.S., I don't know the answer to AOWR's woes either. I don't know what it would take to get more world class drivers back to Indy. Schedules and sponsor obligations may prevent anything much better than what we see now. Politics and future aspirations may be affecting others (Bourdais).

But I would not argue that the people who still watch, attend and enjoy the Indy 500 are wrong in doing so. Whether 50% of the TV audience has wandered away or not, that should not affect those who still appreciate that race. The same holds true for all other races and series. As long as you, the viewer, is enjoying what's on the set, that's all that matters.

[LTalbot]

Indy 500 is the race. Still. The atmosphere, the passion... nothing can match it.

Let me first state that I was a CART fan, and I am currently a CCWS Fan, and I hate the split, but I think the quote above really does sum it all up. While I firmly agree the 500 is not what it used to be, nor is it what I want it to be. But it is what it is, yes it's a little tarnished, but I watched the 500 before I ever knew what CART was. For me it may not be the same, but nobody in this thread can deny Chicago and all of those whose undying love for Indy is expressed here. Indy is why Michael Andretti, Roger Penske, Chip Ganassi and Bobby Rahal are all in the IRL. Indy is why Al Unser Jr. is attempting to make the field, when he is probably way past his prime. It's not the race I want it to be, and perhaps it never will be, but if you love it like the above mentioned names, and by all accounts, Chicago loves it that way, more power to him for sticking with it.

[CARTDM15]

Nothing is preventing them from running. Milka is there because her sports car team (SAMAX) bought cars, leased motors and entered her in the race. They have the same option as anyone, and were sent information packets on costs and leases. If they are not there this year, it's not politics, it's choice.

You said yourself SAMAX her team brought her to INDY.Maybe the team is preventing them from competing.

[Alexamateo]

You said yourself SAMAX her team brought her to INDY.Maybe the team is preventing them from competing.

Then that is their choice, What are you complaining about?

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I think in my lifetime, we WILL see the 500 back to what it used to be. Don't think that just because I LOVE THE 500 that I am blinded to the problems it has had. Sure I would love a top to bottom competitive field where P33 has as much chance to win as P1 but the reality is that's not the case RIGHT NOW. The 500 has endured for almost a century, it will endure for a century more. It's traditions will remain, hopefully, but it will continue to evolve. As a lifelong fan, I have to keep an open mind to those evolutions. But one thing will remain the same. The Indianapolis 500 is my yearly marker, the beginning of the best time of every year for me. I DO LOVE IT SO .

[Wilf]

Uhm, have you never heard of the Dakar Rally? 300 vehicles from 30 countries running over desert terrian for two weeks?

Monoco?

Le Mans?

Iditorod?

Tour De France?

Whitbread?

The Triple Crown Derby?

Daytona 500?

When it comes to spectacle sure the Indy 500 might have been one of the premier races in the world, but since the split its been largely a parade pumping life support into an otherwise failed series. If you think the Indy 500 in its current state is one of the greatest races in world you really need to expand your horizons a bit.

As it stands now the Indy 500 isn't even in the top ten, truthfully it probably ranks behind the U.S. Grand Prix and the Brickard 400.

You might want to do some reasearch on attendance and viewership before you make your next post if you want to have any credibility at all. If you are a troll, go play somewhere else.

[RGM Fan]

If their trolls had any degree of accuracy, they might be taken more seriously. But 250,000 at the Daytona 500? More than the Indy 500? Gimme a break.

I grew up about an hour and half south of the 500 and have gone every year for about 20 years. Addmitedly my information comes from people who work in the Daytona box office and could be baised but here is my reasoning.

Daytona has released a seating capacity of 168,000 and that doesn't count the VIP boxes or the infield full of fans. I have heard that about that there could be another 50,000 to 100,000 in the infield, as someone who camps in the infield I believe its closer to 90,000, with another 30,000 in the VIP boxes the 220,000 to 260,000 range conservatively. When I asked my aunt (who works at the track for the races) about it she said the estimate this year was 300,000, but she heard that from the county tourist bearuo and not speedway sources.

With Indy the seating capacity is 250,000 and then room for another 100,000 in the infield, so likely the crowd is more, but that all depends on how well the you think the IRL is doing. Personally I think the number is optimistically is around 280,000 to 320,000 on race day, in the same ballpark as the Daytona race because lets face it the crowds aren't as big as they were back in early 90s. I remember when the front stretch would be pretty full on poll day and I think they were lucky to get 10,000 this weekend.

Not to throw this thread off topic but just had some information to share.

[Bob Riebe]

I grew up about an hour and half south of the 500 and have gone every year for about 20 years. Addmitedly my information comes from people who work in the Daytona box office and could be baised but here is my reasoning.

Daytona has released a seating capacity of 168,000 and that doesn't count the VIP boxes or the infield full of fans. I have heard that about that there could be another 50,000 to 100,000 in the infield, as someone who camps in the infield I believe its closer to 90,000, with another 30,000 in the VIP boxes the 220,000 to 260,000 range conservatively. When I asked my aunt (who works at the track for the races) about it she said the estimate this year was 300,000, but she heard that from the county tourist bearuo and not speedway sources.

With Indy the seating capacity is 250,000 and then room for another 100,000 in the infield, so likely the crowd is more, but that all depends on how well the you think the IRL is doing. Personally I think the number is optimistically is around 280,000 to 320,000 on race day, in the same ballpark as the Daytona race because lets face it the crowds aren't as big as they were back in early 90s. I remember when the front stretch would be pretty full on poll day and I think they were lucky to get 10,000 this weekend.

Not to throw this thread off topic but just had some information to share.

Here-say verses here-say.

Thirty thousand in the boxes, unless they are sitting on top of each other, those must be some huge boxes.

The numbers are as "optimictic" for Daytona as they are for Indy.

If Daytona had a larger crowd than Indianapolis, the France boys would quickly broadcast Daytona as the race with the largest attendance in the US.

[Mark in Oshawa]

The Indy 500 isn't what it used to be, and we know why it isn't. It is ironic that the guy who made it not what it used to be created the IRL to protect the IRL. With protection like that......


IT is the greatest tradtion in American Racing. It used to be the greatest race anywhere, and now it maybe is in the top 5. Great, but not as great. That said, seeing the pathetic waste of time qualifying is and the fact there is no drama to get into the field says to me that every change made in the last 13 years at Indy has been not successful in putting this race or keeping it on top. It is however, a great event, and I will watch if Iam not stuck in some remote truck stop with a bunch of guys who hate racing (it happened when I stopped to watch the NASCAR race from Darlington and the guys in the driver's lounge were hung up on watching "Mask 2". ).

The fact the Milka Duno's have rides and the Champ Car guys do not is a travesty of situation. Lets face it, no one can buy a full truck of cars and spares to do just this one race. Not in today's economic climate and expect to compete, and THAT is why the Champ Car teams are staying away right now....they have enough on their plate with the Dp-01....

[RGM Fan]

Back to the spirit of the thread though I do totally understand the sort of childhood awe for the Indy 500 lasting into a life time.

I'll never forget attending practice for the 1990 Daytona 500 when I was 12 and running up to the fence to see Alan Kulwicki race by and being bowled down by the wall of wind knocking his car. I was a passive fan before and became a die hard after that.

I was a die hard for a long time, and I still go to the race to hang out with family and friends but its not the same. At some point we have to realize that what we came for when were kids is no longer there. I used to love the underdogs/black sheeps of NASCAR, and they have all but gone away. Its no F-1 racing with less aredynamic cars and boring circuits. That and I turned 30 this year and not as interested in hanging out with rednecks as I once was.

Things change and the Indy 500 hasn't changed for the better, but I still understand the appreciation those fans have for that track. That said I don't think there is anything wrong with holding Tony George accountable and asking for better.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think in the end, if more people had held Tony accountable for what he does, something might have changed. That said, he doesn't have the many thousands showing up for qualfying no more and it doesn't seem to bother him, so I guess only empty stands for the 500 would make a difference. They are not drawing like they used to, but he still has a full house more or less...

[Colsanders]

Not to be cold, but you, along with TG & cronies are in serious denial. The Indy 500 is a shadow of its' former self and the IRL is less popular in the US than the World of Outlaws. How long will TG keep making excuses about more "sports competition"? Nascar and F1 don't seem to have this problem. Before the split, Pole Day was the second largest attended sporting event in the world, next to the 500 itself. Now the 500 cannot sell every seat out. Yes, it is still the largest attended race, but only because TG will not sell out the infield for the Brickyard race. I was at the Kansas race and there was a good crowd. But most of the tickets (including my own) were sold (or given away) at a discount by the season ticket holders who bought to attend the Nascar event. I love Indycar type racing - have been to 22 Indy 500s and many other Indycar events including Surfers Paradise. But now the IRL has three strong teams and a bunch of "hangers on" with a third supported out of TG's pocket. This third woman in this year's 500 makes for good news play, but it really shows the lack of interest and depth quality. And "bump" day(?). It's a spec series now with most of the car engine manufacturers and sponsors going to greener pastures. I'm sure the Honda corporate people will be thrilled to spend a summer weekend in rural Iowa. Would Tony Stewart and Jeff Gordon have gone to Nascar 20 years ago? Even reunification would take years to get back the interest in Indycar racing enjoyed in the eighties and early nineties. Until TG & his cronies get out of denial, expect the sport to go into further decline.

[Colsanders]

Not to be cold, but you, along with TG & cronies are in serious denial. The Indy 500 is a shadow of its' former self and the IRL is less popular in the US than the World of Outlaws. How long will TG keep making excuses about more "sports competition"? Nascar and F1 don't seem to have this problem. Before the split, Pole Day was the second largest attended sporting event in the world, next to the 500 itself. Now the 500 cannot sell every seat out. Yes, it is still the largest attended race, but only because TG will not sell out the infield for the Brickyard race. I was at the Kansas race and there was a good crowd. But most of the tickets (including my own) were sold (or given away) at a discount by the season ticket holders who bought to attend the Nascar event. I love Indycar type racing - have been to 22 Indy 500s and many other Indycar events including Surfers Paradise. But now the IRL has three strong teams and a bunch of "hangers on" with a third supported out of TG's pocket. This third woman in this year's 500 makes for good news play, but it really shows the lack of interest and depth quality. And "bump" day(?). It's a spec series now with most of the car engine manufacturers and sponsors going to greener pastures. I'm sure the Honda corporate people will be thrilled to spend a summer weekend in rural Iowa. Would Tony Stewart and Jeff Gordon have gone to Nascar 20 years ago? Even reunification would take years to get back the interest in Indycar racing enjoyed in the eighties and early nineties. Until TG & his cronies get out of denial, expect the sport to go into further decline.

[Bob Riebe]

The split has nothing to do with the state of the IRL, it the fact Mr. George letting the CART debri back in WITH their leased engines, is the main reason open wheel racing is in the toilet.

Leased engines created by CART, combined with the IRL "chosen few" rules for manufacturers has made it same crap, same pile, rather than make vs. make.

Even if there had been no split, open wheel would be where it is today because of the rules that killed the variety that made open wheel into the early eighties so exciting.

When super mods. and sprint car series banned rear-engined cars, that took all but a miniscule few US drivers out of the equation, and that is probably the main reason a US series died for lack of US drivers.

[Colsanders]

I'm not a defender of CART or Champ Car; don't even pay any attention to that anymore. But you cannot dispute the fact that open-wheel Indycar type racing has taken a dive since the 1996 split. I was at Pole Day and the race in '95 (when Villenieve won) and the place was packed.

I remember all the hype about the "small", unknown drivers, like that dentist, being able to compete in the world's greatest race. The problem is that fans want to see well-known heros and big name advertisers on the cars, along with the OEMs competing against each other. You knew things were not heading in the right direction when a car sponsored by "Rachels Potato Chips" wins the race - give me a break.

When Nigel Mansell ran against Mears, Mario Andretti, Fittipaldi, and Unser, the whole world took notice like had not happened since the sixties. He wrote and interviewed about how amazed he was at the crowd - not only on race day but during the entire month of May.

...a story that certainly cannot be told now.

[Bob Riebe]

I'm not a defender of CART or Champ Car; don't even pay any attention to that anymore. But you cannot dispute the fact that open-wheel Indycar type racing has taken a dive since the 1996 split. I was at Pole Day and the race in '95 (when Villenieve won) and the place was packed.

I remember all the hype about the "small", unknown drivers, like that dentist, being able to compete in the world's greatest race. The problem is that fans want to see well-known heros and big name advertisers on the cars, along with the OEMs competing against each other. You knew things were not heading in the right direction when a car sponsored by "Rachels Potato Chips" wins the race - give me a break.

When Nigel Mansell ran against Mears, Mario Andretti, Fittipaldi, and Unser, the whole world took notice like had not happened since the sixties. He wrote and interviewed about how amazed he was at the crowd - not only on race day but during the entire month of May.

AHHH, I see, if the little guy wins, that is wrong and is therefore proof of a faulty product.
I guess you might as well limit fields to no more than five or six cars then.

Big name advertisers make a difference?
If the fans have become that pathetic, they are getting what they deserve.

What was pole day like in '96?
I want to know just how many thousand difference there was between '95 and '96.

[45 Below]

When Nigel Mansell ran against Mears, Mario Andretti, Fittipaldi, and Unser, the whole world took notice like had not happened since the sixties. He wrote and interviewed about how amazed he was at the crowd - not only on race day but during the entire month of May.

...a story that certainly cannot be told now.

It sure would be nice to see that sort of thing happening again but I suspect the fact that top European drivers no longer cross the pond to race in the 500 probably has more to do with F1 contracts not allowing them to rather than anything TG or the IRL has or hasn't done.

[Colsanders]

AHHH, I see, if the little guy wins, that is wrong and is therefore proof of a faulty product.
I guess you might as well limit fields to no more than five or six cars then.

Big name advertisers make a difference?
If the fans have become that pathetic, they are getting what they deserve.

What was pole day like in '96?
I want to know just how many thousand difference there was between '95 and '96.

Sounds like you would prefer the Indy 500 have all amateurs. Perhaps the SCCA should sanction the event or the better-funded teams be forced to pay some sort of monetary penalty to be given to the teams with little or no funding - kinda like welfare, huh?

[Colsanders]

It sure would be nice to see that sort of thing happening again but I suspect the fact that top European drivers no longer cross the pond to race in the 500 probably has more to do with F1 contracts not allowing them to rather than anything TG or the IRL has or hasn't done.

...if the Indy 500 had the prestige of its' glorious past, some of the "other" series stars would come.

Loosing Stewart, this generation's version of AJ or Mario, to Nascar was a disaster!

[Colsanders]

AHHH, I see, if the little guy wins, that is wrong and is therefore proof of a faulty product.
I guess you might as well limit fields to no more than five or six cars then.

Big name advertisers make a difference?
If the fans have become that pathetic, they are getting what they deserve.

What was pole day like in '96?
I want to know just how many thousand difference there was between '95 and '96.

By the way, I believe pole day in 1996 had an estimated 75,000, about half of the previous year. Of course now a KC Royals baseball game has more fans in the seats than pole day at Indy. It's time to make the 500 a one weekend (two at the most) event.

[Bob Riebe]

Sounds like you would prefer the Indy 500 have all amateurs. Perhaps the SCCA should sanction the event or the better-funded teams be forced to pay some sort of monetary penalty to be given to the teams with little or no funding - kinda like welfare, huh?

If they can qualify, they are not amatuers, or very, very good ones.

Quite a few SCCA drivers did run at Indy, was that wrong?

[Bob Riebe]

You might look up the word "amateur", it merely means they haven't engauged in driving for pay before and until they collect their part of the purse it remains true. Some of those SCCA folks can pedal it around pretty well.

AHHH, give the man a CEEGAR.
Well spoken.

Bob

[Colsanders]

Well guys; we simply disagree. It's like the World Series. Fans want the two best major league teams, not the two best AAA teams to compete.

Oh well, let's just see how things progress if they continue down this path...

[CCFanatic]

Sounds like you would prefer the Indy 500 have all amateurs. Perhaps the SCCA should sanction the event or the better-funded teams be forced to pay some sort of monetary penalty to be given to the teams with little or no funding - kinda like welfare, huh?

Dud, I take offense to that. I have raced and currntely hold an SCCA license and I believe I am just as good, if not better than a third of Indy's field. As my name suggests, I am a Champ Car fan, but I find that the IRL's only problem is the fact that they do not want to change. I do not mean merge with CC, but merge with Nascar. And the IRL has only one man to blame. Founder Tony George. When the IRL began he did what he set out to do. Run an semi-affordable series in which ovals were the focus of the series. But he has switched and and lost his 'vision'. That is why I could never become a IRL fan ever again. He did a complete 180 turn on the fans and went back to how CART was before the split.

[Colsanders]

The 500, though a shadow of its' former self, is still one of the greatest races and probably still the best known race in the world. I would say, depending on who you ask, Monaco GP, Daytona 500, 24 Hr lemans, the Indy 500, and the Brickyard 400 are the top five.

The problem is this: If you ask the average sports fan, not Indy fan, who comes to their mind as a past Indy 500 winner, very few would mention anyone who has won in the past ten years. The names Foyt, Andretti, Unser, and Mears come to mind; not Cheever, Lazier, or Brack.

As great as Dan Weldon is, and I think he may be the best open-wheel racer in the US of this era, outside of the IRL, NOBODY knows who Dan Weldon is.

This isn't Nascar's fault or horse racing's fault. The name George comes to mind as who is accountable.

For those of you in denial, the good news is that, if things don't change, ten years from now the best tickets for Indy will be available on a walk-up basis on raceday.

[Colsanders]

Dud, I take offense to that. I have raced and currntely hold an SCCA license and I believe I am just as good, if not better than a third of Indy's field. As my name suggests, I am a Champ Car fan, but I find that the IRL's only problem is the fact that they do not want to change. I do not mean merge with CC, but merge with Nascar. And the IRL has only one man to blame. Founder Tony George. When the IRL began he did what he set out to do. Run an semi-affordable series in which ovals were the focus of the series. But he has switched and and lost his 'vision'. That is why I could never become a IRL fan ever again. He did a complete 180 turn on the fans and went back to how CART was before the split.

Dude, I didn't mean to offend you. If you are, indeed, better than 1/3 of this year's field, having never run there before, I rest my case.

Tony's "vision" didn't work. Most of his races were at tracks where the annual Nascar event was the feature attraction and the Indy races couldn't sell the tickets. Sponsors became quickly disillutioned with this embarassment as did the car makers. Tony quickly had to pay for TV time and financially support the weaker teams in order to fill the fields. The few upcoming stars, like Tony Stewart, fled for greener pastures. Tony became forced to change somewhat so he would have companies like Honda (Lord knows what they would do without them now).

If you ever compete and do well at the Indy 500, I'm sure you would agree the accomplishment to be more impressive if the world's best drivers and teams were there.

Again, the exists a market for one strong Indy type series; not two.