MS @ Spanish GP [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

ioan

10th May 2007, 20:03

Both Felipe and Kimi have welcomed him back to the action. Well Felipe a bit more enthusiastic about it than Kimi.

Kimi:
"He is here to help the team. Hopefully he has much more time to look at what the other teams are doing and comes up with some ideas.

"That is the way he is approaching the weekend and naturally he is not coming to us to tell us how to drive the cars. It has never been the thing why he is here."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58673

Felipe:

"I'm very happy about it," said Massa. "He will surely be able to give us an extra boost and enthusiasm. Personally I owe Michael a lot: in the year we were together he taught me many things.

"I've improved also thanks to him and in Montmelo I'll do my best to show him that."

http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2116218,00.html

Valve Bounce

11th May 2007, 02:22

For Kimi, those were extremely enthusiastic words - normally, this guy is quite placid. If you watch "The Eagle" on TV, which is a Danish show, you'll understand what I am saying. By the way, it's my favourite TV show.

I have worked for and with Scandinavians for several years, and this is their style. However, they were the best people I have ever worked with.

Storm

11th May 2007, 07:46

Its like Kimi thinks MS to be an adviser and Massa comes off as a fanboy.

janneppi

11th May 2007, 08:36

Niki Lauda doesn't think MS does more than improves teams morale
http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070510182152.shtml

"But all this gossip about him being an advisor or an assistant is rubbish.
I do not know what the internal arrangements are, but my belief is that he is simply curious about keeping motor racing as a part of his life."

ioan

11th May 2007, 08:49

Niki Lauda doesn't think MS does more than improves teams morale
http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070510182152.shtml

Old Niki always bitter about everyone that is still there while he's been forgotten! :D
He wasn't able to improve Jag's morale, let alone their track performances.

BTW, is there a person that isn't on the grid in this moment that would be able to be a better all round adviser than MS?

janneppi

11th May 2007, 09:20

Propably not, altough Ross Brawn might be more beneficial.

CarlMetro

11th May 2007, 10:03

What I want is for someone to make sure that it is Felipe who is actually driving the Ferrari on Sunday during the race ;)

ioan

11th May 2007, 10:24

What I want is for someone to make sure that it is Felipe who is actually driving the Ferrari on Sunday during the race ;)

Just keep an eye on how tall the driver is! :D

ioan

11th May 2007, 10:25

Niki Lauda doesn't think MS does more than improves teams morale
http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070510182152.shtml

Back to this point, the interesting part of Lauda's interview is:

"I do not know what the internal arrangements are..."

Says it all.

raphael123

11th May 2007, 10:31

Back to this point, the interesting part of Lauda's interview is:

"I do not know what the internal arrangements are..."

Says it all.

Do you know differently? Has a team member at Ferrari spoken about Michael's role specifically? Or are you critizising Lauda for expressing an opinion because he's not laying all of Ferrari's current sucess at Schumachers feet?

Ferrari have shown that without Schumacher, and even the loss of Brawn, and Bryne (??) that they are still more than capable of winning, as they've shown by winning 2/3 opening races.

If Kimi starts beating Massa by a bigger margin than what Schumacher managed, I think it'll go a long way to dispelling that Schumacher was some sort of god like figure behind the wheel of an F1 car. Ok he wasn't as good last year as he was back in his day like 97, but he was still pretty damn good driver, one of the best and most complete.

Big Ben

11th May 2007, 11:31

you have to be a moron to think that Ferrari was so successful just because of one man.
The best proof that MS' role wasn't so crucial is the very fact that they are doing just fine without him...

raphael123

11th May 2007, 11:39

you have to be a moron to think that Ferrari was so successful just because of one man.
The best proof that MS' role wasn't so crucial is the very fact that they are doing just fine without him...

I know a couple of forumers who would disagree with that. According to them it's just a difference of opinion :dozey:

But yes I agree, it's stupid to say the loss of Schumacher would result in them becoming a poor team overnight.

ioan

11th May 2007, 12:42

I know a couple of forumers who would disagree with that. According to them it's just a difference of opinion :dozey:

But yes I agree, it's stupid to say the loss of Schumacher would result in them becoming a poor team overnight.

And who said that?

ioan

11th May 2007, 12:47

Do you know differently? Has a team member at Ferrari spoken about Michael's role specifically? Or are you critizising Lauda for expressing an opinion because he's not laying all of Ferrari's current sucess at Schumachers feet?

Kimi knows more than Lauda I suppose:

"He is here to help the team. Hopefully he has much more time to look at what the other teams are doing and comes up with some ideas."

It seems like an adviser role to me. What about you now?

Lauda is just a grumpy old man now. Let's not forget he was some kind of adviser for Ferrari too in the past, and I doubt that people labelled him as a mascot back than.

If Kimi starts beating Massa by a bigger margin than what Schumacher managed, I think it'll go a long way to dispelling that Schumacher was some sort of god like figure behind the wheel of an F1 car.

Keep trying, sooner or later someone will bite the bait! :p :

raphael123

11th May 2007, 12:48

And who said that?

Not really for me to names name is it :p :

What do you think Ioan, do you think someone's opinion can be stupid, if they believe something such as Michael Schumacher was the one reason for Ferrari's success?

raphael123

11th May 2007, 12:50

Kimi knows more than Lauda I suppose:

"He is here to help the team. Hopefully he has much more time to look at what the other teams are doing and comes up with some ideas."

It seems like an adviser role to me. What about you now?

Lauda is just a grumpy old man now. Let's not forget he was some kind of adviser for Ferrari too in the past, and I doubt that people labelled him as a mascot back than.

That sounds like an advisory role to me too I'd say :)
Also, Massa has said he speaks to Schumacher after every race doesn't he? Or is my memory playing tricks on me again?

Keep trying, sooner or later someone will bite the bait! :p :

huh?

ioan

11th May 2007, 13:05

That sounds like an advisory role to me too I'd say :)

Than Lauda was talking bollocks, like always.

huh?

You already used that phrase in another thread trying to provoke a discussion. ;)

pino

11th May 2007, 13:13

This thread is about MS new role at Ferrari, not about his career as F1 driver !

ioan

11th May 2007, 13:14

This thread is about MS new role at Ferrari, not about his career as F1 driver !

A very good point! :up:

ArrowsFA1

11th May 2007, 13:17

I do think Kimi has been very diplomatic, but suspect that MS's presence is a distraction he would rather be without.

11th May 2007, 13:37

But yes I agree, it's stupid to say the loss of Schumacher would result in them becoming a poor team overnight.

It's not so stupid........it happened with Benetton in 1996.

They went from double champions in 95 to zero race wins in 96. The only thing that changed was the driver.

Likewise, Alonso's departure from Renault seems to have had a detrimental effect, although in this instance the switch to Bridgestone tyres has played it's part.....except that Fisichella is pretty much were he was last year relative to the top cars, so the input of the driver does play a big part regardless of other factors.

CarlMetro

11th May 2007, 13:42

ioan

11th May 2007, 14:09

I do think Kimi has been very diplomatic, but suspect that MS's presence is a distraction he would rather be without.

Well he should get accustomed to it, MS will be with the team for several races this season, and who knows in the future!
I don't see why Kimi would be bothered, as he said, MS won't tell them how to drive the cars.

raphael123

11th May 2007, 14:13

Oh come now, surely nobody is suggesting that the most sucessful driver of all time, with the most wins, poles, points and titles, a driver who consistantly out-performed his teammates, could be an asset to a team and it's drivers?

:rolleyes:

I haven't seen anyone suggest that.
Were you referring to anyone in particular, or did you simply not read someone's post properly?

Your right though, that suggestion would be rediculous :p : :laugh:

raphael123

11th May 2007, 14:16

Than Lauda was talking bollocks, like always.

As some forumers here say, it's not bollocks, just a different opinion contrary to ours :)

You already used that phrase in another thread trying to provoke a discussion. ;)

Oh dear lord, God forbid I start a discussion...in a forum of all places :dozey:

ioan

11th May 2007, 14:43

So he will surely not take up a management role at Ferrari:

<<Schumacher did, however, completely dismiss any suggestion of moving into a senior team management role - either with his own outfit or at Ferrari.

"Absolutely not," he said. "I just don't want to. I have other ambitions in life other than that one.">>

Complete article about his role at Ferrari and his yet undecided future:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/58694

Flat.tyres

11th May 2007, 14:50

It sounds to me like Kimi doesn't want him under his feet although having a look at over teams doesn't seem like a good use of his time.

Is it a good idea to use Schumacher in this capacity? They seem to be a bit more successful without him at the moment.

Big Ben

11th May 2007, 15:22

Oh come now, surely nobody is suggesting that the most sucessful driver of all time, with the most wins, poles, points and titles, a driver who consistantly out-performed his teammates, could be an asset to a team and it's drivers?

:rolleyes:

I just love your sarcasm. It's so subtle. It really doesn't say much but makes you look smart.
The fact is that if KR or FM doesn't like him being there he's not helping that much with all his previous success and experience. I don't really see what he can do... change a tire during the race?

Flat.tyres

11th May 2007, 15:39

So he will surely not take up a management role at Ferrari
A1GP

ArrowsFA1

11th May 2007, 17:02

I don't see why Kimi would be bothered, as he said, MS won't tell them how to drive the cars.
Imagine you were promoted to be manager in your workplace after the previous manager retired. You want to do things your way, and work with what has become your team, and yet the previous manager keeps popping into the office asking how things are going, suggesting how things could be done, and reminding the team how things were.

Wouldn't that bother you, and perhaps undermine your position?

andreag

11th May 2007, 17:25

Imagine you were promoted to be manager in your workplace after the previous manager retired. You want to do things your way, and work with what has become your team, and yet the previous manager keeps popping into the office asking how things are going, suggesting how things could be done, and reminding the team how things were.

Wouldn't that bother you, and perhaps undermine your position?
Surely. But this talk is about drivers, not about managers.

If an ex-driver becomes a manager, current drivers don't have anything to say. They just have to race, as that's what they're paid for.

ioan

11th May 2007, 18:36

Imagine you were promoted to be manager in your workplace after the previous manager retired. You want to do things your way, and work with what has become your team, and yet the previous manager keeps popping into the office asking how things are going, suggesting how things could be done, and reminding the team how things were.

Wouldn't that bother you, and perhaps undermine your position?

As andreag already pointed it out MS isn't back as a driver and Kimi was quoted saying, MS isn't there to tell them how to drive.

Now if the drivers don't complain, what's the problem? :p :

ArrowsFA1

11th May 2007, 21:53

MS isn't there to tell them how to drive.
So what is he there for then?

raphael123

11th May 2007, 22:19

So what is he there for then?

An 'advisory' role apparently. No one seems to know exactly what he does, but thats the title he's been given. I agree with you fully Arrows on this.

If Schumacher was the manager, it would be a different story, but his role is so unclear, it just seems as if he's bought in for the sake of keeping him part of the Ferrari family, in public and behind closed doors.

Having the guy you've just replaced coming in every so often, to pass on 'advice' is quite patronising to Kimi I would have thought. Kimi has won races, he has fought for titles before, he isn't like Massa who still had a lot of developing to do. One aspect Schumacher could improve maybe is Kimi's technical ability, but I think it was Ioan himself who was bringing up quotes from the Ferrari team about how good Kimi is technically, so that rules that out even!

I think it would have been better to invite Schumacher as a guest, rather than try and give him this advisory role, because as you say, it undermines Kimi in particular. How can Kimi go about making it his own team when the favourite old son keeps on turning up as an 'advisor'. Who he advises I don't know. But I don't think Kimi is the kind of guy who needs advice on how to drive the car.

Daika

11th May 2007, 22:57

What is the fuzz all about? a former 7 times world champion is visiting his former team, I don't care what his official position is within in the team, he is always welcome. C'mom people it is not some hollywood star deciding to go there to grab some attention!! Wheter he gives advice or use the ferrari water closet it is all very fine to me. Looking forward seeing him in a decent interview.

ioan

12th May 2007, 12:00

Valve Bounce

12th May 2007, 12:34

.

BTW, is there a person that isn't on the grid in this moment that would be able to be a better all round adviser than MS?

Yeah! Murray!! :p :

Daika

12th May 2007, 13:05

What's your name? Pete Sampras. and what are you doing at Wimbledon? You won 7 times? that's pretty good but you are retired so please go away.

TMorel

12th May 2007, 15:38

To dismiss someone with that much experience because you think can't learn anything new from them is rather arrogant.

I have no doubt that Kimi and Massa both realise that, and will take any opportunity to pick up some new knowledge - even if it's how NOT to do something.

ArrowsFA1

12th May 2007, 15:55

If it would be a Hollywood star no one would care, but as they hate MS they just can't stand seeing him again! :D
A familiar refrain ioan, which conveniently avoids you answering, or even speculating on, what exactly MS is there for?

It's an important question for Ferrari, because he's been such a major figure in the team over the last decade that his influence could be, and probably is, still felt among the team, and yet that team should be focussed on Raikkonen & Massa.

ioan

12th May 2007, 18:49

A familiar refrain ioan, which conveniently avoids you answering, or even speculating on, what exactly MS is there for?

It's an important question for Ferrari, because he's been such a major figure in the team over the last decade that his influence could be, and probably is, still felt among the team, and yet that team should be focussed on Raikkonen & Massa.

I never speculate, just take the news and quotes and than see what it gives.

And the refrain is the same because I don't change my mind every second day.

Ferrari are surely concentrating on their drivers, no question about that, so I don't get your point on this matter.

slinkster

12th May 2007, 18:52

Well Felipe a bit more enthusiastic about it than Kimi.

wouldn't be difficult though would it? Kimi's not exactly Mr. Enthusiasm. :D

raphael123

14th May 2007, 09:03

An article I found regarding the impact of Schumacher's influence. I think it definately affects Kimi in a negative way, while it's probably a plus for Massa.

-----

Michael Schumacher’s presence at the Spanish Grand Prix this weekend has focused some unwelcome attention on his successor at Ferrari, Kimi Raikkonen.

The Finn was expected to take over Schumacher’s dominant position in the team. But although he shared the world championship lead heading into Sunday’s race, his position is under some threat from team-mate Felipe Massa - the more so following the Brazilian's victory at the Circuit de Catalunya.

Schumacher’s visit, announced in advance, attracted plenty of attention from the media. No surprise, then, that he was bombarded with questions, and not just about Lewis Hamilton, although I had to get one in.

Many centred on what Michael wanted to do with the rest of his life and while he said he had plenty of ideas he wasn't prepared to expand any further.

He did say, though, that he had no intentions of becoming a team principal and enjoyed waking up each morning now and deciding what he wanted to do, rather than looking at a schedule in front of him.

Once the seven-time champion had finished chatting to the media he went into the garage to say hello to his former mechanics and engineers. I'm told they stopped working on Raikkonen's car and rushed over to welcome Michael back the minute he put his head round the door. Which, if true, might just be another little irritant for the Finn - couldn't they save the catch-ups for a more suitable time?

Michael mentioned in his news conference that he didn't feel he was a distraction this weekend and that he was here to help. On the first comment I would beg to differ. He also said that the team had moved on from last year, and of course they have. So with that in mind, is it wise for Michael to be here this weekend?

Or to put it another way, is it wise - unless the Ferrari management specifically asked - for him to be such a highly visible presence here this weekend? If the team have moved on, why do they need their former top dog at such close quarters.

It's unlikely to bother Massa - he and Michael have a close relationship and Felipe has said how much he has benefited from it in the past. But the last time Raikkonen got close to Michael at a race weekend was when they were wheel to wheel going into turn one at last year’s season-ending Brazilian Grand Prix, before Schumi disappeared off into the sunset.

They're not friends, and Kimi - as the man brought in for a huge salary to replace Michael - doesn't need him around. Certainly not in an advisory capacity.

Kimi was asked by Finnish television whether Michael was here to help him. “Help me? Why?” was the reply.

He's got enough on his plate trying to keep his new team-mate at bay, Massa's performance in qualifying enhanced his growing reputation, the way in which he made up 0.7 seconds from his previous flying lap to take pole was reminiscent of the sort of thing Schumacher used to do. A third successive third place did nothing for Kimi's mood or reputation.

Alonso has said he expects the title battle ultimately to distil down to him and Raikkonen – and he’s not the only one. Although the Finn now has some ground to make up following his retirement in Spain.

But if Massa continues to put Raikkonen in the shade, the issue of who is number one at Ferrari, and who will get the team’s focus for the world championship, will become a pressing one. Massa might just ask whether the team ought to concentrate their efforts on him a little more. After all, isn't that what happened in Michael's day?

-----------------

What do you guys make of it? I think if the story of him popping his head into the garage, and they left Kimi's car to greet him is true, his influence, at the moment is a negative thing. If he becomes a permanent fixture, I guess we won't get that all the time.

Daika

14th May 2007, 12:43

raphael123

14th May 2007, 12:49

Don't really see any problems. Sounds like a family problem, kids wants to be the center of the universe and they cry to their parents when not. I understand that a driver wants to create a climate where they can excel, but blaming schumacher for "negative" influence is not very bright. Ofcourse Kimi isn't saying that (blown out of context by media). Can anyone imagine Schumacher never be a guest at Ferrari as long as Kimi drives their!!! Schumacher is no longer driving so the current drivers must have priority but Schumacher achievements puts him above the ferrari food chain, so a little respect (saying hello) when visit them is isn't that crazy.

I don't think anyone would question Schumacher being there as a guest. It's the fact he's an 'advisor' - to what exactly, I'm not sure. He was a driver, so you'd guess it was 'driving', which would be slightly patronising to someone like Kimi. No one seems to be able to say exactly what he advises on do they.

CarlMetro

14th May 2007, 13:31

I don't think anyone would question Schumacher being there as a guest. It's the fact he's an 'advisor' - to what exactly, I'm not sure. He was a driver, so you'd guess it was 'driving', which would be slightly patronising to someone like Kimi. No one seems to be able to say exactly what he advises on do they.

So with that theory then, once you've achieved the top level in your profession, you should ignore advice from anyone else, no matter how much more experience or knowledge they have?

:crazy:

ioan

14th May 2007, 13:52

An article I found regarding the impact of Schumacher's influence. I think it definately affects Kimi in a negative way, while it's probably a plus for Massa.

-----

Michael Schumacher’s presence at the Spanish Grand Prix this weekend has focused some unwelcome attention on his successor at Ferrari, Kimi Raikkonen.

The Finn was expected to take over Schumacher’s dominant position in the team. But although he shared the world championship lead heading into Sunday’s race, his position is under some threat from team-mate Felipe Massa - the more so following the Brazilian's victory at the Circuit de Catalunya.

Schumacher’s visit, announced in advance, attracted plenty of attention from the media. No surprise, then, that he was bombarded with questions, and not just about Lewis Hamilton, although I had to get one in.

Many centred on what Michael wanted to do with the rest of his life and while he said he had plenty of ideas he wasn't prepared to expand any further.

He did say, though, that he had no intentions of becoming a team principal and enjoyed waking up each morning now and deciding what he wanted to do, rather than looking at a schedule in front of him.

Once the seven-time champion had finished chatting to the media he went into the garage to say hello to his former mechanics and engineers. I'm told they stopped working on Raikkonen's car and rushed over to welcome Michael back the minute he put his head round the door. Which, if true, might just be another little irritant for the Finn - couldn't they save the catch-ups for a more suitable time?

Michael mentioned in his news conference that he didn't feel he was a distraction this weekend and that he was here to help. On the first comment I would beg to differ. He also said that the team had moved on from last year, and of course they have. So with that in mind, is it wise for Michael to be here this weekend?

Or to put it another way, is it wise - unless the Ferrari management specifically asked - for him to be such a highly visible presence here this weekend? If the team have moved on, why do they need their former top dog at such close quarters.

It's unlikely to bother Massa - he and Michael have a close relationship and Felipe has said how much he has benefited from it in the past. But the last time Raikkonen got close to Michael at a race weekend was when they were wheel to wheel going into turn one at last year’s season-ending Brazilian Grand Prix, before Schumi disappeared off into the sunset.

They're not friends, and Kimi - as the man brought in for a huge salary to replace Michael - doesn't need him around. Certainly not in an advisory capacity.

Kimi was asked by Finnish television whether Michael was here to help him. “Help me? Why?” was the reply.

He's got enough on his plate trying to keep his new team-mate at bay, Massa's performance in qualifying enhanced his growing reputation, the way in which he made up 0.7 seconds from his previous flying lap to take pole was reminiscent of the sort of thing Schumacher used to do. A third successive third place did nothing for Kimi's mood or reputation.

Alonso has said he expects the title battle ultimately to distil down to him and Raikkonen – and he’s not the only one. Although the Finn now has some ground to make up following his retirement in Spain.

But if Massa continues to put Raikkonen in the shade, the issue of who is number one at Ferrari, and who will get the team’s focus for the world championship, will become a pressing one. Massa might just ask whether the team ought to concentrate their efforts on him a little more. After all, isn't that what happened in Michael's day?

-----------------

What do you guys make of it? ...

If I could print it on toilet paper than it would be of some use, given that it can't be done it will be an useless piece of bad journalism! :D

Daika

14th May 2007, 14:43

I don't think anyone would question Schumacher being there as a guest. It's the fact he's an 'advisor' - to what exactly, I'm not sure. He was a driver, so you'd guess it was 'driving', which would be slightly patronising to someone like Kimi. No one seems to be able to say exactly what he advises on do they.

Well if it keeps Kimi at wake during the nights, perhaps Schumacher should leave then... If Kimi doesn't want advice then fine, if it impact his driving because he can't focus with Schumacher present then his brain is messed up. I don't see the problem, just concentrate on driving and Kimi wil be fine.

raphael123

14th May 2007, 14:55

So with that theory then, once you've achieved the top level in your profession, you should ignore advice from anyone else, no matter how much more experience or knowledge they have?

:crazy:

Nope. That's not what I've said.

Have you seen Kimi's comment on taking advice from Schumacher regarding his driving btw?

CarlMetro

14th May 2007, 15:05

Nope. That's not what I've said.

He was a driver, so you'd guess it was 'driving', which would be slightly patronising to someone like Kimi. .

Sorry but I thought you were implying that Kimi cannot learn anything from Michael?

raphael123

14th May 2007, 15:14

Sorry but I thought you were implying that Kimi cannot learn anything from Michael?

That's what Kimi said isn't it? When he was asked whether Michael would be giving on advice concerning his driver Kimi replied 'No, why would he?'. I've just been on the ITV website, but the article isn't on the main page. I read the quote on a few different sources though, I'm sure you must have come across it a couple of times yourself if you read the F1 sites during a race weekend.

ioan

14th May 2007, 20:13

rohanweb

14th May 2007, 20:38

Schumi seems put on extra pounds..ooppsss it seems he is tucking on crisps & beer while watching nailbiting quali's and grandprix's ..lol

Scuderia ferrari

14th May 2007, 21:28

Well Kimi is Kimi with what he says. I can understand why he didn't want to take advice from him as Schumi was one of Kimi's rivals last years and Schumi beat him. So he may be sour over that.

Good to see Schmi trying to help though, obiously it's helping Massa more than Kimi.

raphael123

14th May 2007, 21:36

Here's a hint at what MS was advising in Barcelona:

<<'On Friday evening in Spain the lights burned late in the Ferrari team garage as engineers worked to put their finger on a cure for the F2007's abiding understeer on slow corners. Schumacher stayed late with his long-time colleagues from Maranello, offering the benefit of his huge technical databank, gathered from 91 grand prix wins.Raikkonen left earlier, going back to his hotel after the initial technical debrief.>>

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3265_2125458,00.html

I'm not sure how much he would have been able to help concerning the cure for understeer, in a car he has never driven, in the new breed of bridgestone tyres he has never experienced, and without having driven an F1 car with this years specs.

I'm a bit baffled to exactly how he could have helped in this respect anyway. I'm sure he made some positive contributions, but not that, or at least not as much as Kimi and Massa could do.

The fact Ferrari's technical director Mario Almondo said this weekend, when asked about what Michael's contribution was he said 'He is consistently able to give us a very interesting point of view that is very very useful most of the time, of course, we can't go into detail but we are happy about that."

I don't think he could have been any more vague on what exactly Michael is doing

TMorel

14th May 2007, 22:35

raphael123
Now granted, I don't race cars I write computer applications, but there are times when a collegue has been struggling with an issue and I've been able to offer suggestions. I've never worked on his project but I've had similar issues on projects myself in the past. I've even said things like "hey, remember that memory leak we had on that finance prediction project we worked on a few years ago and the problem was blah blah blah" and sometimes even though that might not be the answer, it triggers something else as a potential cause to be investigated.
Do you think it's possible that maybe Schumi has driven an understeering car before and managed to dial out the problem and might possibly say something like "hey, remember when the F2002 was understeering and we fixed it by...."

Valve Bounce

14th May 2007, 22:51

As I posted above, Kimi and Massa are different people with very different personalities. I just wonder who here really knows how Kimi feels about SchM being there, and knows enough about his presence in the Ferrari garage to start commenting on what the reactions of the different personnel there.

race aficionado

14th May 2007, 23:01

If I were Kimi, I would not let Michael into the garage again.

Some one saw him mess up with the electronics of Kimi's car! :vader:

bad boy Michael!

:s mokin:

race aficionado

14th May 2007, 23:02

If I were Kimi, I would not let Michael into the garage again.

Some one saw him mess up with the electronics of Kimi's car! :vader:

bad boy Michael!

:s mokin:

link Please!!!!!
(sorry Valve) :D
:dozey:

Valve Bounce

14th May 2007, 23:23

CarlMetro

15th May 2007, 01:08

Hey Race, it's ok talking to yourself but when you start arguing with yourself you have problems and will get a little visit from the men in white coats :laugh:

race aficionado

15th May 2007, 04:17

Race - you are getting really desperate when you talk to yourself here - :D
How can you possibly ask yourself to post a link? I nearly fell for it, but double checked to see who you were talking to :p :

Hey Race, it's ok talking to yourself but when you start arguing with yourself you have problems and will get a little visit from the men in white coats :laugh:

guilty as charged!

but I had myself a good laugh with myself though.

thanks for indulging me. :)

:s mokin:

wmcot

15th May 2007, 05:45

Flat.tyres

15th May 2007, 10:22

I think that any team or driver that can afford to dismiss out of hand the experience of schumacher is a team with their head in the sand. he obviously has a wealth of information that any team would benefit from and ferrari obviously wont reveal what he's doing for them. why would they?

come on guys, i know a lot of you think schumacher is the anti-christ for some of his past mistakes but who here wouldnt want that experience on their fave team? I would.

raphael123

15th May 2007, 11:19

I would think MS knows a thing or two about setting up a car. Perhaps he is there to compensate for Kimi's weakness in this area? Then again, maybe he is using his trained eyes and experience to notice what the other teams are doing? Or, maybe he just likes hanging out with the gang on Sundays? Maybe he still owes the mechanics a year's supply of pizza?

We can speculate as much as we like, but only MS and perhaps Todt know why he is there.

Ioan posted a link a week or so back, when the technical director (was it him?) had nothing but absolute praise about Kimi's technical feedback.

Where do you get the opinion Kimi's is weak at setting up a car?

ioan

15th May 2007, 12:14

Where do you get the opinion Kimi's is weak at setting up a car?

He might be good, but compared to MS' experience he might be weak! :p :

Flat.tyres

15th May 2007, 12:34

He might be good, but compared to MS' experience he might be weak! :p :

I think that for specific setup, i would rather go with kimis feedback. hes done thousands of miles in that car and as for setting it up for the optimum way he needs to drive, then hes not only the best person but the only person that can do it.

where schumacher would be of huge benefit is general advice, how to get the maximum out of the lap, where to maximise the car and squeeze a couple of thou. that sort of thing. particulaly for massa, that experience would be invaluable and im sure he benefitted from having his old mentor at hand whereas kimi wouldnt. i dout kimi would be flustered by schumacher being there, why should he. its just kimi is in his own zone and focused on his game.

ioan

15th May 2007, 12:46

I think that for specific setup, i would rather go with kimis feedback. hes done thousands of miles in that car and as for setting it up for the optimum way he needs to drive, then hes not only the best person but the only person that can do it.

where schumacher would be of huge benefit is general advice, how to get the maximum out of the lap, where to maximise the car and squeeze a couple of thou. that sort of thing. particulaly for massa, that experience would be invaluable and im sure he benefitted from having his old mentor at hand whereas kimi wouldnt. i dout kimi would be flustered by schumacher being there, why should he. its just kimi is in his own zone and focused on his game.

Honestly I couldn't care less about how much Kimi needs or not MS. What I am happy with is that MS can and does help his team.
Ferrari always comes before the drivers.

raphael123

15th May 2007, 14:34

Honestly I couldn't care less about how much Kimi needs or not MS.

That's what the discussion is about :rolleyes:

Flat.Tyres, nice to see someone who knows what they are talking about. Your analysis of the situation in your last post is spot on :up:

ioan

15th May 2007, 14:55

That's what the discussion is about :rolleyes:

I also explained why I think that way.

TMorel

15th May 2007, 23:23

I thought Kimi had said he still hadn't got the hang of setting the car up for optimal results in qualifying. Did I dream that?

ioan

16th May 2007, 07:32

I thought Kimi had said he still hadn't got the hang of setting the car up for optimal results in qualifying. Did I dream that?

No you didn't and if it's true than it makes his comments about accepting help from MS even more stupid.

Flat.tyres

16th May 2007, 11:03

No you didn't and if it's true than it makes his comments about accepting help from MS even more stupid.

I thought you couldnt care less about how much kimi needs schumachers help :p :

Lets look at the facts. kimi is quite a lazy driver when it comes to setting cars up. whats the reason for that?

Well, we all know he had about 20 car races before entering the sauber team so does not have a massive amount of experience in how to set up a car to get the best out of it. hes blindingly quick in a stock car and possibly the quickest but needs a team around him that can almost interperet what he needs without him knowing it although he is still the best person out there to provide feedback to help them.

having schumacher around should benefit him but f1 drivers are rather susceptable to there egos. if kimi and schumacher sat down and worked through strategy, settings, lines etc as massa does, then i cant see anyone stopping kimi this year. if you want my opinion, thats the real reason schumacher is there. to help kimi get the best out of the car and the race whether he knows it or not.

I will stress that i have no evidence or knowledge of this. just a gut feeling.