[WRC] News & Rumours 2020

[Fast Eddie WRC]

ADAC has confirmed the cancellation of their WRC event due to Covid-19.

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Yep, it's no surprise. No rally should be considered a certainty in the current situation.

[Fafe]

ADAC has confirmed the cancellation of their WRC event due to Covid-19.

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I have expected the cancellation, but couldn't find any official announcement so far. Ridiculously they just send out the tickets. I have received them on Saturday ..

[EstWRC]

Tickets?

Wasn’t it supposed to be without fans on baumholder area?

[Fafe]

Tickets?

Wasn’t it supposed to be without fans on baumholder area?

The Rallye with no or limited number of spectators on Baumholder area seemed to be the only option, but this scenario was not officially stated from ADAC/ organizers. They still sell 4-day-rally passes, as if nothing happened. The latest update on the official website is more than 2 months old and says: "Managers at ADAC Rallye Deutschland have been working with the authorities to decide what measures would need to be put in place to ensure that the round of the World Championship scheduled for 15th-18th October 2020 can go ahead in the presence of spectators."

[Whinlatter]

I know that the ADAC ticketing website said 'no refunds', but I'm hoping they might reconsider that as the event is now cancelled.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/Vidi_anos/status/1298162189480624129

According to this Ogier surviving a helicopter crash in Greece while testing :eek: hopefully everyone is OK

[T16]

A few meters up after take off, apparently. Nobody hurt, thankfully. Testing as normal resumes today.

[dimviii]

In the heli were also Benjamim Veillas and Scott Martin
Test is on scedule,with Ogier today,end Evans tomorrow
Heli pilot landed again after problem with rear rotor just after take off
They landed again at golf court
all three wanted to play golf before starting tests

[JAM]

I have expected the cancellation, but couldn't find any official announcement so far. Ridiculously they just send out the tickets. I have received them on Saturday ..

There was a statement shared on social media yesterday by some people with the ADAC logo, but with today's date and with some data still missing.

it seems a draft of the official cancelation comunication that came to light without ADAC consent.

But infos last week were that the rally was canceled and only waiting by the official announcement.

[satnav]

According to Dirtfish, Rally Italy will move forward by 3 weeks , this along with Rally Germanys cancellation is to be confirmed tomorrow.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally-italy-set-for-shift-amid-germany-cancellation/

[Simmi]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/italy-moves-to-avoid-f1-as-germany-officially-cancelled/

And confirmed. I hope no one had any flights booked for these rounds. I keep moving my accommodation for Ypres and Sardinia as the dates keep moving around. Going to be some last-minute decisions for spectators.

[Whinlatter]

Just had an email from the Rally Deutschland organisers confirming that anyone who has bought tickets in advance will receive a full refund - this is good news. Now to see what Lufthansa can offer...

[Franky]

Just had an email from the Rally Deutschland organisers confirming that anyone who has bought tickets in advance will receive a full refund - this is good news. Now to see what Lufthansa can offer...

The Mosel valley is nice in autumn, so can still have a holiday with wine and beer.

[wwbroe]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/italy-moves-to-avoid-f1-as-germany-officially-cancelled/

And confirmed. I hope no one had any flights booked for these rounds. I keep moving my accommodation for Ypres and Sardinia as the dates keep moving around. Going to be some last-minute decisions for spectators.

Unfortunally we changed our tickets for original cancelled Rally Sardinia to last weekend of october. Now they are changing the date again, so i think we will loose our plane tickets this time. It is just a lot of crap, you can't plan anything this way.:mad:

[dimviii]

Colin Clark
@voiceofrally
·

Alain Penasse in Belgium this morning tells me one team has been very smart and already signed up Loix for Ypres! Big question is Rally2 or Rally1?

[MartijnS]

No way that he will drive a WRC.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Colin Clark
@voiceofrally
·

Alain Penasse in Belgium this morning tells me one team has been very smart and already signed up Loix for Ypres! Big question is Rally2 or Rally1?

On Ypres Rally 2019 Loix best stage result was 3rd (and Breen won overall).

[AnttiL]

I already said this on twitter, but it's a similar spectator attraction, also to older generations, as it was to get Märtin on Rally Estonia last year.

[tommeke_B]

I'd be surprised to see him in anything different than a Skoda. :) He's not a professional rally driver anymore, but if the conditions are difficult, I'm sure he'll do great. Depending on starting positions, only Loix, but also many other national drivers could mix up with the WRC2 battle if the conditions turn difficult. Ypres turns into a very different event with wet or mixed conditions, only few current WRC(2) drivers have experience with that.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Planetemarcus @planetemarcus

#WRC Official News : Spectators not allowed to 2020 #RallyTurkey this September ► https://bit.ly/3jx3o2n

[pantealex]

I'd be surprised to see him in anything different than a Skoda. :) He's not a professional rally driver anymore, but if the conditions are difficult, I'm sure he'll do great. Depending on starting positions, only Loix, but also many other national drivers could mix up with the WRC2 battle if the conditions turn difficult. Ypres turns into a very different event with wet or mixed conditions, only few current WRC(2) drivers have experience with that.

If he enters to WRC2 he will have good starting position, all WRC2 start before WRC3.

[dimviii]

Acropolis Rally seeking return to WRC by 2022

The Greeks are eyeing the ERC for 2021, then the world stage after that

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/acropolis-rally-seeking-return-to-wrc-by-2022/

[the sniper]

Acropolis Rally seeking return to WRC by 2022

The Greeks are eyeing the ERC for 2021, then the world stage after that

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/acropolis-rally-seeking-return-to-wrc-by-2022/

Well, good luck them! I'm sure we'd all be glad to see it back, but the beginning of a potentially unprecedented global economic crises seems like an odd time to finally find funding for the rally! Can we thank Greece's rivalry with Turkey for this sudden state interest...?

[bomber21]

Well, good luck them! I'm sure we'd all be glad to see it back, but the beginning of a potentially unprecedented global economic crises seems like an odd time to finally find funding for the rally! Can we thank Greece's rivalry with Turkey for this sudden state interest...?

I think it does not have to do with rivarly with Turkey.
It has to do with the new government who is trying to bring big motorsports events to the country. At least, this is what they are saying.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Makinen & Ogier wanted earlier re-start for WRC in Latvia but Hyundai weren't ready...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ogier-and-makinen-question-wrcs-september-restart

[Tarmop]

Umh, i remember Ogier saying in July, that it is too dangerous to think about rallying because of the pandemic...?

[DocMS]

Any talk about when they will release a 2021 Calander? Only Monte Carlo with Confirmed dates?

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[Eli]

Any talk about when they will release a 2021 Calendar? Only Monte Carlo with Confirmed dates?

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If I remember correctly they said that in the next WMSC meeting in October they'll clear things up concerning the calendar.

[dimviii]

something worth to mention?

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_09_2020/post-365-0-79096300-1599417258.jpeg

[Rally Power]

It seems to be an old article (Dec/Jan?) and it’s more about a review of their last year and the expectations for 2020. 2 or 3 interesting notes: Guilsoul says the i20 wasn’t made around Neuville, he just was able to adapt better to it; praises Adamo communication and management skills and doubts Makinen takes drivers opinions seriously.

[KiwiWRCfan]

During an interview on WRC Live the manager of JWRC said they will have a 5 event competition in 2021 beginning at Rally Sweden. Other rounds yet to be determined.


Any talk about when they will release a 2021 Calander? Only Monte Carlo with Confirmed dates?

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[AnttiL]

I was reading the 2020 sporting regulations to check something else but I noticed that since 2020 mixed surface rallies are not allowed anymore!

[Fredouye]

Yes, and RACC was planned to be back in 2021 as a tarmac only event...

[Berke]

I was reading the 2020 sporting regulations to check something else but I noticed that since 2020 mixed surface rallies are not allowed anymore!

Any explanation to why?

[drive]

Reducing costs....

[Fredouye]

A few night stages at Ypres rally, and 289 km total : https://www.rallye-sport.fr/programme-rallye-ypres-belgique-2020/

[PLuto]

A few night stages at Ypres rally, and 289 km total : https://www.rallye-sport.fr/programme-rallye-ypres-belgique-2020/

So normal Ypres, nothing extra :D

[Mirek]

So normal Ypres, nothing extra :D

The November date and a fuckton of mud is the extra.

[PLuto]

The November date and a fuckton of mud is the extra.

And also "little bit better" starting field. As you can see, I put there smile. 289 km is quite normal mileage for Ypres, same like night stages.

[AnttiL]

The November date and a fuckton of mud is the extra.

Well, also the Sunday stages in Spa and the 300 km liaison there...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Subaru return ? Vague rumour but at least it's being spoken about...

https://www.drive.com.au/news/subaru-may-be-developing-a-baby-hot-hatch-with-toyota-dna-124209?trackLink=articleResults1News

[SubaruNorway]

Jämtlands län region which has Østersund in the middle are looking for sponsors for 22-24


https://www.facebook.com/samlingnaringsliv/photos/a.220041248589830/702047680389182/

[Rallyper]

Jämtlands län region which has Østersund in the middle are looking for sponsors for 22-24


https://www.facebook.com/samlingnaringsliv/photos/a.220041248589830/702047680389182/

Not even a rumour. Could be reality. :)

[AnttiL]

And to those who are not so familiar with Sweden's geography, this would mean a location way higher up North and most likely better snow conditions.

[SubaruNorway]

Hopefully it survives up there, they will probably loose quite a lot of spectators since it will be twice the distance for a lot of people that normally go from Norway and not much rally interest and no events around Trondheim, better than Luleå anyway.

[Rallyper]

Hopefully it survives up there, they will probably loose quite a lot of spectators since it will be twice the distance for a lot of people that normally go from Norway and not much rally interest and no events around Trondheim, better than Luleå anyway.

I would say: give it a go. It will be marvelous. I know the stages up there is awesome.

[DocMS]

It's alot easier to acess östersund area for Europeans like myself than going to Luleå. Hopefully the organisation can get the funding together. All we need now is for Rally Sweden to announce next year's dates. I hear alot of rumors on social media they are keeping Torsby for 2021 with stages based towards Malung area.

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[AnttiL]

As the Jämtland people said, they're only aiming for 2022. It's a big process to put up a new rally out of nothing. 2021 will still be Torsby-based for sure.

[tommeke_B]

If they're taking it really serious, I'm expecting them to hold a rally one of a few weeks before Rally Sweden next year.

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-wrc-debate-leaving-teams-going-round-in-circles/

Once again, David Evans says WRC should start running on Rally2 cars...also rumors that Hyundai might quit when hybrids arrive.

[Rallyper]

If they're taking it really serious, I'm expecting them to hold a rally one of a few weeks before Rally Sweden next year.

True. They do Snow Rally once a year. Could be that one.

[Rallyper]

Östersund has own airport. For spectators from Nordic countries coming by car distances are quite resonable.
Östersund and distances by car;
Trondheim - Östersund is about 260K
Sundsvall - Östersund 190K
Stockholm (Arlanda) - Östersund 530K
Compared to Rally Finland coming by ferry to Turku or Helsinki you have to travel about 300-330K to Jyväskylä.

[er88]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/the-wrc-debate-leaving-teams-going-round-in-circles/

Once again, David Evans says WRC should start running on Rally2 cars...also rumors that Hyundai might quit when hybrids arrive.David Evans (Dirtfish) keep pushing this rally 2 idea out there. Almost OTT about it considering I haven't heard of any chance of that now happening.....

The drivers don't want it, I was under the impression the teams don't want it, and neither do the FIA/stakeholders?

[AnttiL]

Could Dirtfish have some agenda with this? Would they benefit from Rally2 becoming the main class?

[er88]

Could Dirtfish have some agenda with this? Would they benefit from Rally2 becoming the main class?I can't see how they would benefit..., but the way they are continually forcing the issue makes it seem that way?

This has been going on for months now.

I find it even stranger because I was sure Evans was always huge on the spectacle of the current top class, and always recognised the need to go hybrid or move in that direction of some sort.

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but perhaps there's someone in the background behind David Evans/ Dirtfish, that are wanting this agenda pushed? Dirtfish is the perfect outlet to do that, but christ knows who that could be.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Could Dirtfish have some agenda with this? Would they benefit from Rally2 becoming the main class?

Only benefit is clicks and eyes on their website :)

[Rally Power]

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but perhaps there's someone in the background behind David Evans/ Dirtfish, that are wanting this agenda pushed? Dirtfish is the perfect outlet to do that, but christ knows who that could be.

Maybe this article timing, only a few days after a long interview with Mr. Wilson (a public defender of a R5+ concept) isn’t a coincidence.

Anyway, what puzzles me is to see Evans forgetting to mention that ’22 rules were developed by the FIA on a permanent compromise with the teams; most likely none is 100% happy and all are worried about Covid impacts but we can still remember hearing them refusing to delay the new rules, arguing that manus are eager to have Hybrids on the stages: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-boss-hybrid-will-add-to-wrc-spectacle/.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Craig Breen agreed with former Subaru sporting director and Toyota team manager George Donaldson when he urged WRC to give consideration to running Rally2 cars.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/breen-backs-rally2-future/

[AnttiL]

George Donaldson is also with Dirtfish, in case you didn't know.

[er88]

Craig Breen agreed with former Subaru sporting director and Toyota team manager George Donaldson when he urged WRC to give consideration to running Rally2 cars.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/breen-backs-rally2-future/Hardly a shock that a driver without a full time seat would support that move.

However I doubt his opinion would be the same if he gets that Hyundai 3rd seat ;)

[mknight]

In the ever repeating discussion about listening to current teams vs planning for the future I have to side with the future prospects.

Current teams will favor a solution which is cheapest to them at the moment and gets the maximum return for the (already invested) money.

As mentioned by Dirtfish themselves any current team can suddenly disappear. In fact, it's the usuall progress. Every team that has been there disappeared after a few years, either fast (if they are not competetive) or slower (if they are competetive and dont see the point of getting 5th, 10th, 15th title).
Only MSport breaks that rule and that's cause it's a private company and not a manu team.

With hybrid rules WRC can for once be somewhat on the curve of "progress" (or "change" if that's what you prefer to call it) in the automotive industry. Even though as was said first Prius was introduced over 20 years ago. How exactly the rules should like is off course another matter. For me electric-turbo only with some small battery would also work.
Change to R5+ without any hybridization is a road to (unlikely) short term gain (1-2 years) and long term oblivion. In that case I'd even say it's better to postpone the introduction of hybrid rules by one year and just keep the current ones until then.

[dimviii]

Monza emerges as 2020 WRC finale candidate

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/monza-emerges-as-candidate-to-host-wrc-season-finale/

[Lancia Stratos]

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but perhaps there's someone in the background behind David Evans/ Dirtfish, that are wanting this agenda pushed? Dirtfish is the perfect outlet to do that, but christ knows who that could be.

Wise words...….

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Breen still confident of 3rd Hyundai seat at Ypres:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/152162/breen-confident-of-hyundai-wrc-return-on-ypres-rally

[the sniper]

I can't see how they would benefit..., but the way they are continually forcing the issue makes it seem that way?

This has been going on for months now.

I find it even stranger because I was sure Evans was always huge on the spectacle of the current top class, and always recognised the need to go hybrid or move in that direction of some sort.

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but perhaps there's someone in the background behind David Evans/ Dirtfish, that are wanting this agenda pushed? Dirtfish is the perfect outlet to do that, but christ knows who that could be.

I don't think there's anything particularly sinister to it. David Evans is well connected and close to various people in the service park. If Andrea Adamo had private concerns about Hyundai pulling out, he'd never say it publicly, but over a meal and some wine, would he discuss that risk with Evans? I can imagine it. That's not to say that Hyundai are pulling out and Adamo wouldn't know at this point, but it's something I could imagine coming up in a private conversation between the two. Something that could influence Evan's thinking.

Of course we know that David Evans will be close to Malcolm Wilson and would I imagine be trusted to know Malcolm's true feelings on things. Malcolm for example probably knows that it's highly unlikely that he's going to be able to sell any real number of Rally1 Fiestas, plus the Covid situation has caused a lot of further uncertainty. Obviously he knows the true nature of the relationship with Ford. There's no doubt in my mind that Evans will know more about the reality of their situation than he could directly report in order to protect the trust between them. But if Malcolm truly isn't sure about how the 2022 regs will work for M-Sport, short of announcing publicly they won't be there, Evans will probably know that and it'll shape his reporting accordingly.

[dimviii]

Of course we know that David Evans will be close to Malcolm Wilson and would I imagine be trusted to know Malcolm's true feelings on things. Malcolm for example probably knows that it's highly unlikely that he's going to be able to sell any real number of Rally1 Fiestas,.

that.At current situation Malcolm is impossible to sell wrc cars to privateers.
If r5 cars(or similar) was the top category,would be a totaly different situation for his company.

[mknight]

Monza emerges as 2020 WRC finale candidate

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/monza-emerges-as-candidate-to-host-wrc-season-finale/

Just no...

While it's a nice show event, it's definitely not a rally that should decide any titles. Lately half of the positions in top 10 get decided by who gets more or less penalties for touching barrels in articifical turns.

[AnttiL]

Yes. Monza is fine for a super special stage or the show event, but not for a whole WRC event

Could they combine stages from nearby, like these?

https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-Trofeo-Aci-Como-2018
https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-1000-Miglia-2020

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Greece wants Acropolis return:

https://dirtfish.com/archive/loeb-co-driven-by-sports-minister-in-acropolis-push/

[wyler]

Yes. Monza is fine for a super special stage or the show event, but not for a whole WRC event

Could they combine stages from nearby, like these?

https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-Trofeo-Aci-Como-2018
https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-1000-Miglia-2020

This. rumored to be Como

[T16]

Some cracking opinions on Evans and pushing the R5+ class. I just think he's a little worried and he's trying to express what his concerns are, nothing more than that. I don't blame him, to be honest.
Interesting is his point on the fuel savings by using an e-Turbo versus anti lag - I wonder why that's not been pooposed as part of the new regulations, if it is as straightforward as he says.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"It's reckoned 15% of a rally car’s in-stage consumption is fired in and pointlessly exploded while the car’s turbo is kept spinning off-throttle. An electric turbo would have done away with that and improved the consumption by 15%. Such a saving would surely dwarf the benefit of a car through a town in electric mode."

This Evans quote is quite telling -
is the future of WRC to be decided between merely appearing "green" with hybrid, or being actually "green-er" with R5+ and also saving costs to the teams ?

[Franky]

The electric turbo usage has been mentioned in this forums several times, at least.

If the future would be based on the R5s, then FIA should already start reorganising the new Rally1-2-3-4 tier system and name Rally2 cars Rally1, Rally3 to Rally 2 and Rally4 to Rally3. So you'd get expensive 4WD class, "budget" 4WD and the entry 2WD class.

But personally think the same what has been said on this forums tens of times. If the R5/Rally2 formula becomes the top tier, the costs will fly through the sky and become less affordable for the less wealthy. It won't be like the category is at the moment.

[AnttiL]

The manufacturers don't benefit from the electric turbo even though it would make the sport greener. They cannot market electric turbo replacing polluting anti-lag because, well, anti-lag isn't really used on road cars. But hybrids...

[Tauri_J]

With electric turbo and lower consumption we would be getting less noise from the cars.

[mknight]

The manufacturers don't benefit from the electric turbo even though it would make the sport greener. They cannot market electric turbo replacing polluting anti-lag because, well, anti-lag isn't really used on road cars. But hybrids...

While you are right that there is quite a difference in marketing potential electric turbos are now used in some production Audis.

[mknight]

This. rumored to be Como

I thought the main reason for Monza was that they could easily lock it from the public. Would be harder on the roads around Lago di Como but maybe not impossible sinc it's so narrow and steep everywhere.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ryan Champion on the latest AR podcast says that M-Sport have a new-spec engine and a new aero pakage ready to go.

But as they have unused current-spec engines and unused current aero parts, for financial reasons, they are continuing to use these up first.

The new engines (and probably the aero) wont be put into the Fiesta WRC until Monte Carlo 2021.

[AnttiL]

Ryan Champion on the latest AR podcast says that M-Sport have a new-spec engine and a new aero pakage ready to go.

But as they have unused current-spec engines and unused current aero parts, for financial reasons, they are continuing to use these up first.

The new engines (and probably the aero) wont be put into the Fiesta WRC until Monte Carlo 2021.

Ryan has been reading Dirtfish (https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-engine-specs-to-be-frozen-for-five-years-from-2021/). I posted (https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?40422-WRC-future&p=1250227&viewfull=1#post1250227) the article two weeks ago and explained what's in it. Then you posted (https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-engine-freeze-set-for-official-go-ahead/) the same article a few days later, apparently without reading.

[wyler]

I thought the main reason for Monza was that they could easily lock it from the public. Would be harder on the roads around Lago di Como but maybe not impossible sinc it's so narrow and steep everywhere.

yeah. at the moment in Italy is like everything rally-related is locked. but no-one can stop you to stroll in the woods. as in ERC Rome. Let's see if the control gets tighter in Sardinia...

[wyler]

Ryan has been reading Dirtfish (https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-engine-specs-to-be-frozen-for-five-years-from-2021/). I posted (https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?40422-WRC-future&p=1250227&viewfull=1#post1250227) the article two weeks ago and explained what's in it. Then you posted (https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-engine-freeze-set-for-official-go-ahead/) the same article a few days later, apparently without reading.

Italian media - not really reliable tbh - rumors dark cloud on m-sport season 2021, expecially with. another bad result in Turkey.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Higher Covid-19 cases are coming back in many parts of Europe. I wonder if WRC Sardinia and Ypres will actually go ahead.

Ypres is probably at most risk of cancellation as Italy seems to be managing better and had rallies already.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@WRCgerardquinn

Hmmm.......pay workers or go rallying ? Strong winds ahead for WRC.

Hyundai And Korean Union Agree To Freeze Wages Due To COVID-19 Fallout.

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/09/hyundai-and-korean-union-agree-to-freeze-wages-due-to-covid-19-fallout/#.X2ng9IJDjeo.twitter

[Rallyper]

Rumours thet Finland looks to close down borders again. (For Sweden and Estonia it is)

So maybe no F-cup visit then...

[Tarmop]

These rumours have been going on since August, lets see, if they really go through, with the economy already suffering.

[Rallyper]

These rumours have been going on since August, lets see, if they really go through, with the economy already suffering.

However they opened for swedes last week. And Swedens´ foreign ministry opened recommendation for travelling to Finland yesterday...

Edit: Swedish TV4 now confirmed Finland stops swedish citizens travelling to Finland. :(:(

[Rally Power]

Higher Covid-19 cases are coming back in many parts of Europe. I wonder if WRC Sardinia and Ypres will actually go ahead.
Ypres is probably at most risk of cancellation as Italy seems to be managing better and had rallies already.

Unfortunately, the numbers have been escalating for several weeks, making Ypres move from early October to late November a risky decision; probably that's why Monza is now being oddly rumoured as the season finale (hope not; fingers crossed for Ypres!).

[Eli]

Unfortunately, the numbers have been escalating for several weeks, making Ypres move from early October to late November a risky decision; probably that's why Monza is now being oddly rumored as the season finale (hope not; fingers crossed for Ypres!).

I still don't know why they haven't moved it forward by 3 weeks to the end of October, the organizers said they were working on the itinerary for a long time, and didn't wait for the FIA to know whether or not they would be included in the calendar. It's beyond me why they haven't changed the date and besides, for the WRC to have another 2 month break after we already had 6 months with no rallies, can't do good to anyone, especially as November-December will be winter in Europe... Honestly the FIA needs to shake the dust off or else we'll see this championship die quickly, you already have M-Sport struggling and now with Hyundai having stopped paying their staff...it doesn't bode well for the future of our sport...

[tc10a]

...and now with Hyundai having stopped paying their staff...it doesn't bode well for the future of our sport...

What are you talking about? Read the full text not just a headline. Nobody stopped paying their staff just freezed automatic payment rise due to economic reasons in coordination with the workers union. Nothing unusual.

[Eli]

What are you talking about? Read the full text not just a headline. Nobody stopped paying their staff just froze automatic payment rise due to economic reasons in coordination with the workers union. Nothing unusual.

Sorry my bad, although I did read the full text, and this specifically caught my attention: 'there will be a freeze on basic pay', and for some reason I was more focused on that although later it says:'a one-off bonus amounting to 150 per cent of an employee’s monthly salary, a 1.2 million won ($1,029) Covid-19 allowance, 10 company shares, and 200,000 won ($172) in gift certificates.' so for now it seems they are OK, but they did also report on a 33% drop of sales worldwide:'Hyundai recently announced that its global retail sales fell by 33 per cent in the second quarter as a result of the pandemic.' nothing unusual here considering COVID-19 but since they are competing in the WRC, I'm sure at some point they'll start looking (if they haven't already) at their motorsport programs and their return on investments...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Stronger restrictions now here in England due to rising Covid cases... and the Govt said but it's even worse in some other European countries... including Belgium.

[Gregor-y]

I thought Belgium has always used the worst case scenario to determine their numbers, which makes them look different compared to other countries. It's maybe a little too honest.

At last they're not flat out lying.

[mousti]

I thought Belgium has always used the worst case scenario to determine their numbers, which makes them look different compared to other countries. It's maybe a little too honest.

At last they're not flat out lying.For first wave this was for sure the case for the count of past away lives. Lots of probable cases has been included to that count.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn ONEPLUS A6013 met Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/saksan-mm-rallilla-suuret-suunnitelmat-huoltoparkki-baijeriin-ja-patkia-naapurimaissa/

Rally Deutschland could relocate to Bavaria with possibly stages in Czech or Austria.

[EstWRC]

i knows its not that trustworthy site but at least some kind of news during this quiet times https://translate.google.ee/translate?hl=et&tab=wT&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.revistascratch.com%2Fwrc%2Fnot icia%2Fel-primer-calendario-provisional-del-wrc-2021-ya-esta-aqui-58387

anyway, the provisional calendar according to them, 12 rounds

PROVISIONAL CALENDAR:
Monte Carlo: January 21-24.
Sweden: February 11-14.
Portugal: May.
Italy: June.
Safari: July.
Estonia: July.
Finland: August.
Ireland: August.
Chile: September.
Turkey: September.
Catalonia-Spain: October.
Japan: November.

[EstWRC]

So our cultural minister confirms today there’s been a proposal from FIA to rally Estonia and to our country to also organize a rally next year and the government will again support it.

[AnttiL]

Loeb's contract with Hyundai won't continue anymore.

[gorganl2000]

Loeb's contract with Hyundai won't continue anymore.

https://motorsport.hyundai.com/farewell-to-sebastien-and-daniel/

i'm a big loeb/elena fan and i wish them well in their future endeavors. thanks for the many great WRC and other motorsport memories, let's see what other moments the future holds.

[Rally Power]

https://motorsport.hyundai.com/farewell-to-sebastien-and-daniel/
i'm a big loeb/elena fan and i wish them well in their future endeavors. thanks for the many great WRC and other motorsport memories, let's see what other moments the future holds.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFy9EfRJp4X/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hopefully it's time for someone else to do the job (Eg. Breen) but you never know...

Hyundai: "We wish them all the best in their next chapter and keep our doors wide open to them should they ever wish to return.”

[Tarmop]

Last time Loeb was about to leave, he signed a 2 year contract. I`m pretty sure we will see him in a i20 sometimes soon, maybe even this year, if the season is extended and championship open.

[doubled1978]

i knows its not that trustworthy site but at least some kind of news during this quiet times https://translate.google.ee/translate?hl=et&tab=wT&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.revistascratch.com%2Fwrc%2Fnot icia%2Fel-primer-calendario-provisional-del-wrc-2021-ya-esta-aqui-58387

anyway, the provisional calendar according to them, 12 rounds

PROVISIONAL CALENDAR:
Monte Carlo: January 21-24.
Sweden: February 11-14.
Portugal: May.
Italy: June.
Safari: July.
Estonia: July.
Finland: August.
Ireland: August.
Chile: September.
Turkey: September.
Catalonia-Spain: October.
Japan: November.

If that does turn out to be correct, it a bit strange with a 3 month gap after Sweden.

[AnttiL]

If that does turn out to be correct, it a bit strange with a 3 month gap after Sweden.

COVID-reasons, playing it safe to move as many events later as possible? Only the snow rounds cannot be moved. Also, Argentina has right now big wildfires...

[doubled1978]

COVID-reasons, playing it safe to move as many events later as possible? Only the snow rounds cannot be moved. Also, Argentina has right now big wildfires...

That does make sense to allow travel restrictions to be eased etc.
The only rally that needs to retain the date for weather is Sweden, MC it’s history and tradition only.

[mknight]

https://motorsport.hyundai.com/farewell-to-sebastien-and-daniel/

i'm a big loeb/elena fan and i wish them well in their future endeavors. thanks for the many great WRC and other motorsport memories, let's see what other moments the future holds.

Sadly Loeb's run at Hyundai has been quite a big disappointment. Especially after the rallies in C3 where he had top 3 speed in all 3 rallies, led 2 and won 1.
As was recorded here, quite many people thought he would decimate Neuville and win rallies.

2x 3rd place out of 8 starts is certainly not what he and others were hoping for. The lack of speed on tarmac even after multiple test rallies is what stands out the most. I was hoping he would get a last shot at Ypres since Hyundai seems to be inproving lately but the bad performance at Monte and Hyundai desire to try Breen on tarmac before next year probably played a role.

Since two other drivers as well as Loeb, all with recent great tarmac performances had big issues with this i20 on tarmac I'd say it was car-related issues and not Loeb suddenly forgetting to drive on tarmac.

[steve.mandzij]

Sadly Loeb's run at Hyundai has been quite a big disappointment. Especially after the rallies in C3 where he had top 3 speed in all 3 rallies, led 2 and won 1.
As was recorded here, quite many people thought he would decimate Neuville and win rallies.

2x 3rd place out of 8 starts is certainly not what he and others were hoping for. The lack of speed on tarmac even after multiple test rallies is what stands out the most. I was hoping he would get a last shot at Ypres since Hyundai seems to be inproving lately but the bad performance at Monte and Hyundai desire to try Breen on tarmac before next year probably played a role.

Since two other drivers as well as Loeb, all with recent great tarmac performances had big issues with this i20 on tarmac I'd say it was car-related issues and not Loeb suddenly forgetting to drive on tarmac.The i20 is strictly Neuville's car and the C3 was a tarmac beast. It's no surprise he was quick in the Citroen.

[dimviii]

https://www.fia.com/news/pirelli-backs-fia-rally-star-initative-find-future-world-champions

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Future of Rally GB is looking very shaky with N.Ireland its best chance...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/is-this-the-end-of-the-road-for-britains-wrc-round

[tommeke_B]

Monza joins the WRC calendar. http://www.speed-magazine.be/le-rally-monza-rejoint-le-calendrier-du-wrc/

[EstWRC]

well that is huge news for Tänak and Neuville for example. Well for everybody basically except Evans maybe.

[AnttiL]

200 stage kilometres, Friday and Sunday at the Monza circuit, Saturday with normal tarmac stages

[dimviii]

Rally Monza to form 2020 FIA World Rally Championship finale

Italy’s ACI Rally Monza will host the final round of the FIA World Rally Championship after being added to the calendar today (Friday).

The itinerary will adopt the FIA WRC’s short format schedule, featuring about 220km of special stages, with the majority of the first and last day action at the circuit.

Saturday’s middle leg speed tests will comprise demanding closed public roads in the Lombardy region close to Monza.

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/season-2020/wrc/rally-monza-to-form-2020-fia-world-rally-championship-finale/

[Rallyper]

Is Ypres out in the WRC calendar?

[tommeke_B]

Is Ypres out in the WRC calendar?

Ypres is still included. Problem is that nothing is certain these days.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/monza-announced-as-wrc-season-finale

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Anyone worried about the Monza Rally Show being a proper rally - the longest stage on the 2019 event was 44.83 km.

[Jarek Z]

Monza joins the WRC calendar. http://www.speed-magazine.be/le-rally-monza-rejoint-le-calendrier-du-wrc/

Looking at the winners from the previous years Valentino Rossi should consider competing ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monza_Rally_Show

[T16]

Looking at the winners from the previous years Valentino Rossi should consider competing ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monza_Rally_Show

Ha - I was thinking the same thing. I wonder how much experience counts for around that place versus talent.

[tommeke_B]

Looking at the winners from the previous years Valentino Rossi should consider competing ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monza_Rally_Show
I don't think anything can make up for the time loss he would probably have on the leg with proper stages.

[AnttiL]

Anyone worried about the Monza Rally Show being a proper rally - the longest stage on the 2019 event was 44.83 km.

It's just a number of laps on the circuit, with loads and loads of chicanes. I really hope they can change that into something more interesting with service roads around the circuit.

[mknight]

Anyone worried about the Monza Rally Show being a proper rally - the longest stage on the 2019 event was 44.83 km.

Length is not a problem. The "character" of the stages is. Historically:

- zero height changes and close to zero surface changes
- large part of "corners" is made up from cones and similar with penalties for touching them
- often multiple rounds around the same set-up "track"
- little to no mid-speed corners, either it's chicanes/90/180 deg, or flat out corners that are integral to the race circuit

At least one day should be on stages.

Personally I doubt Ypres will be ran, for Monza the chance is higher.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

They do use perimiter roads.

[dimviii]

..

[AnttiL]

Here is Monza 2009 maps. It's just all on the circuit.

https://www.rally-maps.com/Monza-Rally-Show-2009

I also watched some onboards from recent years and couldn't see anything else than the circuit being used.

[Simmi]

I definitely have a fear Monza will run, be hailed as a "success" and then we'll get more of this type of rally leaking into the WRC.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"Saturday’s middle leg speed tests will comprise demanding closed public roads in the Lombardy region close to Monza."

Matton:
“In the current situation, we’re developing new approaches and ACI Rally Monza Italia is a great illustration of this. It’s the marriage of an iconic circuit event and more traditional rally stages in the nearby countryside."

https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-rally-monza-form-2020-fia-world-rally-championship-finale

[TypeR]

Here is Monza 2009 maps. It's just all on the circuit.

https://www.rally-maps.com/Monza-Rally-Show-2009

I also watched some onboards from recent years and couldn't see anything else than the circuit being used.

that is just so dumb.. it's WRC not some track racing series..

[Jarek Z]

How do you like those stages? ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABK_3vi4tFQ

[AnttiL]

"Saturday’s middle leg speed tests will comprise demanding closed public roads in the Lombardy region close to Monza."

Matton:
“In the current situation, we’re developing new approaches and ACI Rally Monza Italia is a great illustration of this. It’s the marriage of an iconic circuit event and more traditional rally stages in the nearby countryside."

https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-rally-monza-form-2020-fia-world-rally-championship-finale

But if whole Friday and Sunday are just Monza rallyshow on the circuit, it sucks...

[Rally Power]

"Saturday’s middle leg speed tests will comprise demanding closed public roads in the Lombardy region close to Monza."

Matton:
“In the current situation, we’re developing new approaches and ACI Rally Monza Italia is a great illustration of this. It’s the marriage of an iconic circuit event and more traditional rally stages in the nearby countryside."


What Matton is likely thinking:
“In the current situation, we’re so desperate to get 7 events that ACI Rally Monza Italia was the last resource, after blowing chances to run proper events and change Ypres date. Probably we’ll have to stick to the Monza circuit stages, as more traditional rally stages in the nearby countryside will probably be cancelled"
That's sad.

[SubaruNorway]

How do you like those stages? ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABK_3vi4tFQ

Quite boring, i filmed a hillclimb held on a racetrack here in Norway once, didn't even bother to post the video...

[greencroft]

Not a fan at all of the prospect of a WRC round at Monza but I can see why the FIA have pushed ahead with it to give them a greater chance of 7 rounds and a valid championship according to the rules.

I wonder if the Monza orgnaisers really screwed the FIA to the floor on pricing the event - all the negotiating leverage they could have hoped for!

But I really hope that a side effect is not the false notion that this type of event is an acceptable format for a WRC round going forward when more normal global conditions resume.

[AnttiL]

How do you like those stages? ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABK_3vi4tFQ

looks like a Thursday night super special. Given the circumstances, I wouldn't mind them doing a stage like this every night, even twice every night, but the rally must have more than that.

I hope they will come up with something resembling the old Donington or Oulton Park stages of RAC, or something of the Szilvester Rally in Hungary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDvVUowEvws&ab_channel=LRacing

[denkimi]

We have had a spa rally here in belgium, where none of the actual circuit track was used. Only acces and service roads.

But the terrain at spa is huge, its basically just a forest. I don't know how the situation in monza is, if they have such possibilities.

[PLuto]

For me, including Monza into WRC is a joke...

[dimviii]

For me, including Monza into WRC is a joke...

nobody hardcore fun will like it.
But...this year due to pandemic is a different story,and imho we need it.Maybe its the only way to run an extra round with safety due to covid.We have to remember that the situation with covid after 2-3 months in totally unknown,and the risk to dont run rallies at all is not low....
If they manage to run and 6-8 stages nearby with proper stages,will not be so bad.
It would be better than nothing.

[TypeR]

Track racing is a Big joke to WRC, but only thing to wait for, is the settings of cars for full track/tarmac mode..

Could somehow draw lines with proper rally Kenya.. absolutely different gear ratios/transmissions + max low ride heights..

[RS]

nobody hardcore fun will like it.
But...this year due to pandemic is a different story,and imho we need it.Maybe its the only way to run an extra round with safety due to covid.We have to remember that the situation with covid after 2-3 months in totally unknown,and the risk to dont run rallies at all is not low....
If they manage to run and 6-8 stages nearby with proper stages,will not be so bad.
It would be better than nothing.

TBH i was struggling to take this year's WRC seriously with the lack of events, especially some iconic ones and also a lack of tarmac events, so adding one more event, wherever it is, does make the season feel a little more complete. WRC was damn lucky it squeezed in three events before lockdown though.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

I definitely have a fear Monza will run, be hailed as a "success" and then we'll get more of this type of rally leaking into the WRC.Basically, WRC could degraded into something like BTRDA Circuit Rally Championship if Monza is a "success"..

Sent from my Redmi 6 using Tapatalk

[GigiGalliNo1]

I thought you wrote this:


Basically, WRC could degraded into something like IKEA

:D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

2020 is a year like no other, and so having a WRC rally like no other is just part of the territory.

Monza may not be traditional but tarmac is tarmac and although it will look different to a normal tarmac rally it will still be a real test of driving.

We should be grateful to Italy for getting another event organised at short notice and we could be more so if Ypres gets cancelled.

The 2021 Calendar is out and hasnt gone to 'Circuit-based' events, so just accept Monza 2020 as a one-off. It could be fun.

[mknight]

NASCAR is also a test of driving, yet it's not exactly same driving as a rally stage.

[T16]

NASCAR is also a test of driving, yet it's not exactly same driving as a rally stage.

Eddie can’t even tell the difference between the 16 and 17 cars, so you’re probably correct not to trust his opinion on whether Monza will be ‘a real test of driving’ or not.

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-title-can-be-awarded-without-ypres-and-monza/

Guessing this won't surprise anyone at this point.

[denkimi]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-title-can-be-awarded-without-ypres-and-monza/

Guessing this won't surprise anyone at this point.
Is turkey counted as a european country?
If not, they could indeed crown a world champion.

[AnttiL]

Is turkey counted as a european country?
If not, they could indeed crown a world champion.

Mexico is not for sure

[T16]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-title-can-be-awarded-without-ypres-and-monza/

Guessing this won't surprise anyone at this point.

I think it’s fair enough. They’ve all had the same crack at it.
Ok, any less and I might not think the same.
If Elfyn Evans, son of that absolute legend, Gwyndaf, is world champion at the end of six, seven or eight rounds I will be absolutely ecstatic regardless.

[Eli]

I think it’s fair enough. They’ve all had the same crack at it.
Ok, any less and I might not think the same.
If Elfyn Evans, son of that absolute legend, Gwyndaf, is world champion at the end of six, seven or eight rounds I will be absolutely ecstatic regardless.

TBH I don't think they have much choice anymore, and it's been well fought out for so...of course I'd prefer to have another round and preferably have two including the rally in Ypres, but if the next two are cancelled I can still say, it was a heck of a championship even if it was considerably short. For our sport's sake, I hope we don't have to wait 15 weeks until the next rally...

[T16]

This may not be the correct place for it, but I will be sparing a thought tonight for Laura Salvo, the young lady who was killed in an accident today.
Thoughts are with her family and friends.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Eddie can’t even tell the difference between the 16 and 17 cars, so you’re probably correct not to trust his opinion on whether Monza will be ‘a real test of driving’ or not.

T16 misinterprets my every post. He is my personal forum troll and has now been Blocked.

[PLuto]

nobody hardcore fun will like it.
But...this year due to pandemic is a different story,and imho we need it.

Are you sure we really need it?

[dimviii]

yeap imho we need it. I wouldnt like to finish the championship right now,with no more rounds.

[EstWRC]

yeap imho we need it. I wouldnt like to finish the championship right now,with no more rounds.

+1

this season for me feels rather "test season", i dont have this "complete" feeling like the past seasons. And to be honest i really miss Meeke, Mikkelsen, Paddon, Latvala etc. It was way more interesting with them and we had more competition.

After the 6 months break, Rally Estonia felt like we started with a new season again which again may end just after 3 rallies, this weekend.

And the rallies have also been all cut short except Monte.

[PLuto]

For me the best plan should be to stop the season now and prepare properly for next season with good races with proper length. And be ready for Monte...

[AnttiL]

to be honest i really miss Meeke, Mikkelsen, Paddon, Latvala etc. It was way more interesting with them and we had more competition

We also have now five winners in six rallies.

[EstWRC]

We also have now five winners in six rallies.

yeah and thats good but still those drivers added extra to it an spiced things up

[Jarek Z]

Looking at the winners from the previous years Valentino Rossi should consider competing ;)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monza_Rally_Show

Is something going on here? ;)
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/will-m-sport-field-valentino-rossi-at-monza/

[steve.mandzij]

yeah and thats good but still those drivers added extra to it an spiced things upLatvala's stage end interviews are sorely missed, and so are those of the drivers who are no longer regulars. 2017/2018 was the golden era of these new cars, for sure.

[Franky]

Latvala's stage end interviews are sorely missed, and so are those of the drivers who are no longer regulars. 2017/2018 was the golden era of these new cars, for sure.

Latvala should be a commentator.

[AnttiL]

yeah and thats good but still those drivers added extra to it an spiced things up

Can we just say that we miss Citroen and the extra seats they offered?

[er88]

Yeah another manufacturer and 3 of Mikkelsen, Meeke, Latvala, Paddon etc being back in the championship would be ideal.

I dont agree with downplaying this current season in terms of who wins the title though. A title is a title, people say because it's a shorter season it doesn't feel the same but it can be harder to win a title in a shorter season - one bad result/ mistake and you are in trouble. Two bad results and it's nearly game over. You need to be on it in every rally and every stage, and the car needs to hold up too. So far Evans is the only driver to have speed and consistency and not make any real mistakes iirc - Ogier has even lost valuable points and places on powerstages in Sweden and now Italy. That could be costly in such a shorter season.

What does feel lacking for me is Msport and their two Finns. Both have been underwhelming for the most part, the team is not testing due to financial struggles, and car development has been halted. I said going into this year it will be hard to gauge where Lappi and Suninen actually are, because there was no reference for them with an experienced team mate like a Meeke etc. Someone who you know has good speed across most events, and so you can compare against. Makes it even harder to really judge Teemu and Lappi and where they are currently at as drivers.

If I was Malcolm, I'd be doing everything i can to sign up Oliver Solberg for next year..., offer him a long term deal, run him in an R5 car (would also help prove the Fiesta R5 is still competitive), and let Oliver test the WRC car and maybe give him an event of two in the WRC car (on events Greensmith maybe doesn't go to etc).

There's no way Solberg isn't a sound investment for the future considering what he is showing.

[EstWRC]

Yeah another manufacturer and 3 of Mikkelsen, Meeke, Latvala, Paddon etc being back in the championship would be ideal.

I dont agree with downplaying this current season in terms of who wins the title though. A title is a title, people say because it's a shorter season it doesn't feel the same but it can be harder to win a title in a shorter season - one bad result/ mistake and you are in trouble. Two bad results and it's nearly game over. You need to be on it in every rally and every stage, and the car needs to hold up too. So far Evans is the only driver to have speed and consistency and not make any real mistakes iirc - Ogier has even lost valuable points and places on powerstages in Sweden and now Italy. That could be costly in such a shorter season.

so lets make all future seasons with just 6 rallies? ;) the drivers would then be on it every rally


my post on previous page not feeling to be complete season was more meant if its now done with Sardegna...if Ypres and Monza are also going ahead then thumbs up from me and it feels more season-like already.

Regarding Oliver i would like to see him do some tests and rounds with WRC machine., most of the season in WRC2.

[tommeke_B]

I agree about Evans, he's clearly the best driver this year, he is very fast and consistent at the same time. There's no reason to think he wouldn't be doing the same if there were 10 or 12 events.

About M-Sport, well... I think that with Lappi and Suninen they have some of the best drivers available. It seems clear they don't have the resources other teams are having, the difference in performance is becoming clear. Evans was considered an overrated driver by many, for years, when driving the Fiesta... Look at what he's doing right now. Who knows, if you put Lappi or Suninen in a Yaris WRC, they could start winning straight away? Quite ironic considering both were once tied to Toyota.

Solberg seems to be the next rising star, looks just as promising as what Rovanperä did the last couple of years. However, when watching onboards, I hope he can still process his pacenotes when things are going even faster. :)

[AnttiL]

I dont agree with downplaying this current season in terms of who wins the title though. A title is a title, people say because it's a shorter season it doesn't feel the same but it can be harder to win a title in a shorter season - one bad result/ mistake and you are in trouble. Two bad results and it's nearly game over. You need to be on it in every rally and every stage, and the car needs to hold up too. So far Evans is the only driver to have speed and consistency and not make any real mistakes iirc - Ogier has even lost valuable points and places on powerstages in Sweden and now Italy. That could be costly in such a shorter season.

one retirement in a 6-rally season is more costly than one retirement in a 14-rally season.


If I was Malcolm, I'd be doing everything i can to sign up Oliver Solberg for next year..., offer him a long term deal, run him in an R5 car (would also help prove the Fiesta R5 is still competitive), and let Oliver test the WRC car and maybe give him an event of two in the WRC car (on events Greensmith maybe doesn't go to etc).

That would be a big investment, and seeing the trouble they have just running the cars on the events, I don't believe it will happen. Also Oliver must be aware of how the Fiesta WRC is lacking behind in development (difficult to say for the Fiesta Rally2).

I think Oliver should still do one full season in WRC2, but likely the WRC teams are interested in him.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The problem of the cost of producing and running the '17-spec cars is the root of the problems.

They have put all the privateers out of the WRC top level, Citroen struggled for funding and then quit and M-Sport has been hanging on but going backwards all the time.

Seats are at a premium and no new manufacturer has been tempted into WRC in 4 years.

[EstWRC]

how long contract Lappi signed with M-sport?

the guy seems to me he has no interest to drive at all anymore, at least this is the expression he leaves, doesnt seem motivated.

[AnttiL]

Who knows, if you put Lappi or Suninen in a Yaris WRC, they could start winning straight away?

Well, Lappi won his second power stage and fourth rally...

[AnttiL]

The problem of the cost of producing and running the '17-spec cars is the root of the problems.

They have put all the privateers out of the WRC top level

Who were the top level privateers in 2016?

http://juwra.com/season_2016_points.html

Guys like Henning Solberg, Martin Prokop, Yazeed Al-Rajhi, Lorenzo Bertelli, Marcos Ligato etc. don't really fight for top positions. It's just more WRC cars on the entry list, but personally I don't care if these hobbyist drivers would drive Rally2 cars instead.

[PLuto]

Who were the top level privateers in 2016?

http://juwra.com/season_2016_points.html

Guys like Henning Solberg, Martin Prokop, Yazeed Al-Rajhi, Lorenzo Bertelli, Marcos Ligato etc. don't really fight for top positions. It's just more WRC cars on the entry list, but personally I don't care if these hobbyist drivers would drive Rally2 cars instead.

But this privateers were bringing money to M-Sport...

[AnttiL]

But this privateers were bringing money to M-Sport...

I see the point, but M-Sport still has someone like Greensmith and Hyundai someone like Loubet.

Also drivers like Prokop and Bertelli had their own cars and teams.

[tommeke_B]

Also keep in mind that the occasional spectator who goes to a random public area always enjoys their spectacular but inefficient way of taking junctions and hairpins... :)

And when the previous generation was more accessible, especially in the first season (2011) it was nice to see those. There were quite a few drivers who were not talented enough to become WRC drivers, but were still very entertaining to see.

[AnttiL]

Also keep in mind that the occasional spectator who goes to a random public area always enjoys their spectacular but inefficient way of taking junctions and hairpins... :)

And when the previous generation was more accessible, especially in the first season (2011) it was nice to see those. There were quite a few drivers who were not talented enough to become WRC drivers, but were still very entertaining to see.

Junctions as spectating places are underrated! Lots of anti-lag noise, different approaches and action guaranteed ;)

Rally2 cars, or even Rally4 cars can also be entertaining to see. However, seeing that one Finnish dude pumping the gas in 2019 was not entertaining...

[tommeke_B]

Junctions as spectating places are underrated! Lots of anti-lag noise, different approaches and action guaranteed ;)

Rally2 cars, or even Rally4 cars can also be entertaining to see. However, seeing that one Finnish dude pumping the gas in 2019 was not entertaining...

I know, I think the same way as you do. However I'm talking about a different audience. Also that Finnish guy is a very bad example. I'm talking about guys like Prokop, Araujo, Wilson, Block, Kuipers etc.

[AnttiL]

I know, I think the same way as you do. However I'm talking about a different audience. Also that Finnish guy is a very bad example. I'm talking about guys like Prokop, Araujo, Wilson, Block, Kuipers etc.

I see what you mean, but I'm more into the sporting aspect so when these guys are competitionally in no-man's-land, it's frustrating.

Besides, why couldn't they keep running their 2016 spec WRC cars? It's still allowed, right?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I see what you mean, but I'm more into the sporting aspect so when these guys are competitionally in no-man's-land, it's frustrating.

Besides, why couldn't they keep running their 2016 spec WRC cars? It's still allowed, right?

They could but there's little incentive as they get no attention, coverage or reward. Did you see or hear anything of Prokop in Sardinia at the weekend ?

[AnttiL]

They could but there's little incentive as they get no attention, coverage or reward. Did you see or hear anything of Prokop in Sardinia at the weekend ?
No. And I didn't hear about Kimmo Kurkela in Estonia, driving a 2017 spec car. Deividas Jocius had some coverage in Monte, but was entered through M-Sport.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No. And I didn't hear about Kimmo Kurkela in Estonia, driving a 2017 spec car. Deividas Jocius had some coverage in Monte, but was entered through M-Sport.

No wonder with those in Estonia waaay down the running order.

[dimviii]

I agree about Evans, he's clearly the best driver this year, he is very fast and consistent at the same time. There's no reason to think he wouldn't be doing the same if there were 10 or 12 events.

while i agree with you Tom,i have to mention that for some previous years,if we had stop the championship at 2/3 of season,maybe now we have Neuville with 2 world championships under his belt.
You never know if any driver if he is going to continue with this pace for ever.
Except Ogier i would say,because we have watch his capabilities for many years.


Solberg seems to be the next rising star, looks just as promising as what Rovanperä did the last couple of years. However, when watching onboards, I hope he can still process his pacenotes when things are going even faster. :)

what do you mean Tom at last paragraph?

edit My opinion about Oliver is that i am trully surprised that none factory team have grabbed him so far.
This guy for me has showed even greater impression than Kalle.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

6x Champion says Monza Rally is great news..

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/152771/ogier-rally-monza-wrc-addition-great-news

[AnttiL]

Of course he’s happy because he’s not leading ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I see Prokop is retiring Fiona his 2016 Fiesta RS WRC... and getting an R5.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Of course he’s happy because he’s not leading ;)

But he says the new rally will be better than the Rally Show which would be too 'light'.

[Eli]

Can we just say that we miss Citroen and the extra seats they offered?

Yes, definitely!
I have to admit I missed them since the season started in Monte-Carlo, I miss their beautiful liveries, I miss their stupid, slow developed and unreliable car (and the way they won each of their 5 events with the C3), and I miss having more drivers fighting it out for the championship in different teams (and not like it is now with 2 teams fighting and another one struggling just to stay there). However, because of the Corona situation at least we're not having to miss them through 13 rounds, with the way this year has gone having only 6 events and most of them being less than 300 kms. Hope they or another PSA group manufacturer or any other manufacturer for that matter will come back any time after 2022. It feels as if it takes some of the joy in rallying (having less competitors and one less manufacturer).

[Rallyper]

Yes, definitely!
I have to admit I missed them since the season started in Monte-Carlo, I miss their beautiful liveries, I miss their stupid, slow developed and unreliable car (and the way they won each of their 5 events with the C3), and I miss having more drivers fighting it out for the championship in different teams (and not like it is now with 2 teams fighting and another one struggling just to stay there). However, because of the Corona situation at least we're not having to miss them through 13 rounds, with the way this year has gone having only 6 events and most of them being less than 300 kms. Hope they or another PSA group manufacturer or any other manufacturer for that matter will come back any time after 2022. It feels as if it takes some of the joy in rallying (having less competitors and one less manufacturer).

+10

[tommeke_B]

while i agree with you Tom,i have to mention that for some previous years,if we had stop the championship at 2/3 of season,maybe now we have Neuville with 2 world championships under his belt.
You never know if any driver if he is going to continue with this pace for ever.
Except Ogier i would say,because we have watch his capabilities for many years.

It's true you don't know if he will continue with this pace, but that's the same at the end of any season. If the championship would have ended at 2/3 of the season (for any reason), Neuville would have been a worthy champion too at that point. On the events covered, Evans was the best, by far, the points prove it.



what do you mean Tom at last paragraph?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-skrPpqdSNI&ab_channel=OliverSolberg Have a look and more importantly listen). Watched so many onboard videos through the years, but with this I'm really wondering how anyone can process this properly.

[steve.mandzij]

It's true you don't know if he will continue with this pace, but that's the same at the end of any season. If the championship would have ended at 2/3 of the season (for any reason), Neuville would have been a worthy champion too at that point. On the events covered, Evans was the best, by far, the points prove it.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-skrPpqdSNI&ab_channel=OliverSolberg Have a look and more importantly listen). Watched so many onboard videos through the years, but with this I'm really wondering how anyone can process this properly.Petter also had quite packed pace notes like that; overall it's a lot of information, called early and very quickly strung together, but it's not the worst I've heard. Meeke's pace notes, for instance, were for me the reason he was so crash-prone.

Then again, drivers like Sainz with Moya had unintelligible gibberish pacenotes and that worked for him.

[AnttiL]

edit My opinion about Oliver is that i am trully surprised that none factory team have grabbed him so far.
This guy for me has showed even greater impression than Kalle.

I don't want to get into comparing Oliver and Kalle too much, both are impressive young talents, but what shows the greater impression to you?

[AnttiL]

Petter also had quite packed pace notes like that; overall it's a lot of information, called early and very quickly strung together, but it's not the worst I've heard. Meeke's pace notes, for instance, were for me the reason he was so crash-prone.

Again I'm bringing up Kalle, but an interesting fact about their pace notes is that Jonne reads the note much earlier than most co-drivers (of course this is how the driver wants it to be read). It's like Kalle wants to get a picture in his head of how the road will proceed after the current corner, and can hold longer pieces in his short time memory.

[dimviii]

I don't want to get into comparing Oliver and Kalle too much, both are impressive young talents, but what shows the greater impression to you?

he is faster at tarmac for example.Just remember Kalles pace at first asphalt rallies.
of course that point doesnt guarantee that he is ''better'',but its an indication that we have to count.

[dimviii]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-skrPpqdSNI&ab_channel=OliverSolberg Have a look and more importantly listen). Watched so many onboard videos through the years, but with this I'm really wondering how anyone can process this properly.

if that works for him even at fast stages i dont see a problem.

[denkimi]

I think he will simplify them as he gets more experienced. Especially if he gets in a much faster wrc.

Often, if you look at your notes afterwards, you realise some of the information is actually not needed. Often, you can let out details as they make not much difference to the speed you can carry.

[sindroms]

I don't want to get into comparing Oliver and Kalle too much, both are impressive young talents, but what shows the greater impression to you?

As a one who have seen both of them growing up on Latvian stages - my bet goes to Kalle. They both shows excellent speed but as for me - Kalle's driving style is more efficient by keeping car straight as much as possible. While Oliver's style is much more aggressive - by throwing car in to the turns. Imo Kalle's style suit better for current WRC cars generation.

[wyler]

What about this?
New hyundai coming soon...rally2?

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1037369776709862

[TypeR]

What about this?
New hyundai coming soon...rally2?

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1037369776709862
I hope it is Rally3 car

[TheFlyingTuga]

I hope it is Rally3 car

Probably the new Rally2 car because as far as I know Rally3 can not have the winglets on top of the wheels.

[Eli]

What about this?
New hyundai coming soon...rally2?

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1037369776709862

So officially we can start saying goodbye to the 3 door i20 WRC coupe...Although to save costs they'll probably do it in 2022 (if they decide to stay that is...)

[the sniper]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before however there is an interesting comparison between this years WRC and the 1995 championship. If the next 2 rallies go ahead then there will have been exactly the same number of events in the championship, i.e 8 qualifying rounds. Dont think many would say the 1995 winner didnt deserve his title...

While I don't disagree with your point, to be fair, the distance covered in the first four rallies of 1995 will roughly match the SS length of the entire 2020 season, if the last two rounds happen. And there were very few repeated stages in 1995.

[Myrvold]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before however there is an interesting comparison between this years WRC and the 1995 championship. If the next 2 rallies go ahead then there will have been exactly the same number of events in the championship, i.e 8 qualifying rounds. Dont think many would say the 1995 winner didnt deserve his title...

Back then they knew it coming in to the season.
Also, Sainz probably lost the championship due to his injuries after the mountain-bike fall. It's quite similar with 2020 in the way that a retirement more (or in Sainz' case, one non-start) can be the tipping point.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ott Tänak @OttTanak

I’m happy to announce that we are coming back to Estonia with @HMSGOfficial.

At Kehala Rally 2020 / 14 November.

[Tauri_J]

It will be a short rally, around 60 km. 3 stages which will be run three times.

[dimviii]

“The main focus for me is to be back at the top in 2022,” Mikkelsen told DirtFish.

“I know that I can’t sit on the sidelines and wait for that to happen next year. Like I told you before, I am ready to invest in myself next season and I’m also ready to [do] WRC2.

“Basically, I have to be in the best possible position [for 2022] and WRC2 is something I’m open to.”

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/mikkelsen-ready-to-do-wrc2-as-he-targets-2022-wrc-seat/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Chris Ingram Rally @ChrisIngramGB

I bet over the next few days Elfyn will be announced as the 2020 WRC champion.

[RAS007]

While I don't disagree with your point, to be fair, the distance covered in the first four rallies of 1995 will roughly match the SS length of the entire 2020 season, if the last two rounds happen. And there were very few repeated stages in 1995.

Someone give this man a cigar.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Podcast interview with Elfyn Evans including him revealing his dream cars and his rally idol:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/podcast #37

[dimviii]

Prokop testing fiesta r5

https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/125308723_3225807464192286_462808994235531239_o.jp g?_nc_cat=100&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=ottjqX1fw0oAX9W6x4F&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=97777758ec8fefa373ecc22c99234e11&oe=5FD4294E

[Tom K]

Busy week - the day before Fiesta, he tested Fabia and Polo from BRR and Hyundai from Kowax 2Brally.

[Jarek Z]

Prokop testing fiesta r5

and i20 R5:
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/Y99pvGGY/s6/martin-prokop-hyundai-i20-r5-1.jpg

and Polo R5:
https://www.facebook.com/MartinProkopOfficial/photos/pcb.3222282344544798/3222282234544809/?type=3&theater

and Fabia R5:
https://www.facebook.com/MartinProkopOfficial/photos/pcb.3222282344544798/3222282251211474/?type=3&theater

and who knows what else.

[the sniper]

and who knows what else.

Proton, no...? :D

[hari]

and i20 R5:
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/Y99pvGGY/s6/martin-prokop-hyundai-i20-r5-1.jpg

and Polo R5:
https://www.facebook.com/MartinProkopOfficial/photos/pcb.3222282344544798/3222282234544809/?type=3&theater

and Fabia R5:
https://www.facebook.com/MartinProkopOfficial/photos/pcb.3222282344544798/3222282251211474/?type=3&theater

and who knows what else.


Some pictures and video from the Polo - Fabia - i20 test: http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_schotter_testtag_121120.html

http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2020/brr121120/1.jpghttp://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2020/brr121120/2.jpghttp://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2020/brr121120/3.jpg

[pantealex]

Prokop did test Fabia Rally2 and Fiesta Rally2 not old R5-versions.

[Jarek Z]

Raffaele Pinto, 1972 European rally champion and WRC driver for Fiat and Lancia, died yesterday. May he rest in peace.

https://www.fiaerc.com/erc-remembers-former-champion-pinto/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raffaele_Pinto

https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/23223-raffaele-pinto/

RALLYE SANREMO 1976:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0slcUNptVzs

https://www.fanpage.it/sport/motori/e-morto-lex-pilota-raffaele-lele-pinto-leggenda-del-rally-italiano-e-della-lancia/

[dimviii]

Volkswagen Motorsport
@volkswagenms
·
Welcome back, Nikolay Gryazin. The Russian will be in the Polo GTI R5 this weekend for Rallye Mariña Lucense with co-driver Konstantin Aleksandrov. Godspeed! #Volkswagen #Polo #GTI #R5 #rally #rallying #Spain #Gryazin

[NickRally]

Although shades are slightly different, it reminds me of the Olio Fiat colour scheme of the days gone by:

http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2020/brr121120/3.jpg

[Jarek Z]

Jari Huttunen is going to drive Tor Modlin Rally Show on Saturday with a new livery:

https://pl.motorsport.com/rajdy/news/modlin-na-final-mistrzowskiego-sezonu/4925134/?ic_source=article-details-widget&ic_medium=widget&ic_campaign=widget-prev&nrt=146

The event will be broadcasted live on on a cable channel called Motowizja and on their Facebook page:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPaJfmDmUvw

[Jarek Z]

Entry list:
https://rajd.internetowy.pl/registrations/87

Note: Stohl's car with 0 cm3 engine capacity is an electric car :)

[pantealex]

Entry list:
https://rajd.internetowy.pl/registrations/87

Note: Stohl's car with 0 cm3 engine capacity is an electric car :)

ERX = Electronic RallyCross

[mknight]

Watched the 2020 Season review on WRC (50 min) and while it was good it was (understandably focused) on how "everyone did great".
While I agree that all of the main drivers (5 Hyundai +3 Toyota+2 MSport) did good performances at some point in 2020 , going trough them in detail I also found that the only one who had a perfect season was ..... Sordo (season means 3 rallies for him)

For every other driver and all teams there things that they will for sure think about improving. So here's an outside and arguably biased view:

Ogier - 3 times he lost close fights towards the end of rallies (Monte, Sweden, Sardinia), arguably the one in Monte is what he is likely most pissed about

Evans - 2 great rallies where he was fighting for win (Monte and Sweden) and then lot of "just below top fight" ones. This has kind of been his tradition last year as well, doing very well on only few rallies but staying stable and just below top in others. Clearly needs to be able to fight for wins on a bit more rallies for better title chances, slow gravel rallies is what doesn't seem to be his thing (wasn't at MSport either

Rovanpera - a bit similar to Evans, 2 great rallies (Sweden and Estonia) and rest not so good. Like Evans it's slow gravel rallies (maybe also not Toyota's thing) and tarmac on top

Tanak - up and including Estonia it actually looked very good, sure it was expected he would have troubles starting in the Hyundai and by Estonia (and major upgrades) it looked like everything was fine. But then on the 3 rallies at the end he won 1 stage only and last two was 3rd slowest Hyundai all or most of the race. Sure the two technical issues had an effect, and he did usually not have great start positions (3-4) but the year before in similar situations the performance was somewhere else.

Neuville - Again seemingly making mistakes under pressure (Estonia when last Hyundai, Monza 4 times ( first stage, saturday start, then the double mistake with retirement). Also the high-speed rallies (Sweden and Estonia) he still seems to struggle, even with updated car

Breen - one bad rally, one very good. Very similar to 2019 and the two seasons with Citroen. Getting stable performances over multiple rallies is what he needs focusing on. He has also not yet done a decent tarmac rally in WRC, will he get a chance in this Hyundai lineup?

Lappi - very good start clearly beating Suninen, but on slower gravel rallies it was not so clear and he was often slower than Suninen. In Estonia he seemed to push too hard trying to get close to Toyota/Hyundai and it cost him position to Suninen at the end. Slow gravel rallies are definitely something he should think of (but he was very good in Turkey 2019), off course the question is what he will do now.

Suninen - after a bit of a disaster in the first two rallies (Sweden especially) he did good on slow gravel. On fast gravel/snow he has basically been getting slower (also against teammates) since he started in 2017 which is strange.


Hyundai - overall very good increase in performance both from end of 2019 to Monte and especially between Mexico and Estonia. However still about the same number of technical issues as always, specially the double retirement in Mexico hurt them a lot.

Toyota - while Hyundai is upgrading they seem to be standing a bit still, the focus area for sure has to be rough gravel rallies. Whether they should do a "switching driver" strategy for 3rd is an open question. Clearly it's a disadvantage in manu fight not to do it. Sure Rovanpera will likely improve but still wont have road-cleaning advantage on gravel and is likely not top 3 candidate on tarmac like Sordo is for Hyundai.

MSport - How they are basiclaly just another "participant" has been discussed a lot. Sure they got hurt a lot by the COVID situation, but they do have some hard priorities to make. Without any good results to show (either by extremely talented drivers or by "known" fast drivers), they won't attract the kind of "paying" drivers that help them run. (see Loubet and Veiby this year). For 2021 I expect them to basically just call off the season like in 2005 and 2016 and focus on building a new car. But surely they both:
a) need some drivers to develop the car (don't have to be the fastest drivers, but I doubt drivers with extremely little WRC experience like Formaux can help much in that)
b) need a plan how to get good driver(s) for 2022 to actually show the car is good

[AnttiL]

Suninen - after a bit of a disaster in the first two rallies (Sweden especially) he did good on slow gravel. On fast gravel/snow he has basically been getting slower (also against teammates) since he started in 2017 which is strange.

Remember Sweden 2019?

In Finland 2017 the Fiestas still had pace (Evans was second, Suninen fighting for podium, Tänak with good stage times) but already in 2018 they were off the pace of the Toyotas (thanks to lack of aero development and the unbalanced aero on Ogier's car?) and it's just gone worse since.

Suninen is actually surprisingly good on technical gravel rallies, his podiums are Portugal, Sardegna and Mexico, and he has shown good pace in Sardegna in all years he's done with the WRC car

[Morte66]

Ogier - 3 times he lost close fights towards the end of rallies (Monte, Sweden, Sardinia)

Neuville - Again seemingly making mistakes under pressure (Estonia when last Hyundai, Monza 4 times ( first stage, saturday start, then the double mistake with retirement). Also the high-speed rallies (Sweden and Estonia) he still seems to struggle, even with updated car

Rovanpera - rest not so good. Like Evans it's slow gravel rallies (maybe also not Toyota's thing) and tarmac on top
Suninen - did good on slow gravel
Toyota Whether they should do a "switching driver" strategy for 3rd is an open question. [..] Sure Rovanpera will likely improve but still wont have road-cleaning advantage on gravel and is likely not top 3 candidate on tarmac like Sordo is for Hyundai.

Ogier - I think the shortened rallies hurt him this year because knowing when to push and when to avoid punctures has always been part of his armoury. He's quick, and he's savvy, but savvy didn't count for so much in 2020. But... MC wasn't shortened. Maybe he's just getting on a bit...

Neville - Unfortunately, Thierry does not meet me in a bar in Brussels every Friday to tell me his innermost thoughts. But I have a feeling that his attitude is "the Hyundai ain't quite there, but it's the car I've got so I'll make the most of it". So he pushes like hell and hopes lady luck will smile on him. He's got a hint of Meeke, but not nearly so extreme. Lady luck had a cough this year, and the law of averages got a look in.

The Rovanpera Question is the Toyota Question. As the rules stand, rotating specialists to exploit road position in cleaning rallies like Sardegna is highly effective. If they could get Loeb for tarmac (if he takes it seriously) and Suninen for slow gravel (I'm sure it could be arranged), that'd be an entirely reasonable approach. But... Ogier will retire one day and they're developing Rovanpera for that day. I suspect Adamo is always looking for a trophy this year to have a budget next year, whilst Toyota can take a longer view.

[doubled1978]

Remember Sweden 2019?

In Finland 2017 the Fiestas still had pace (Evans was second, Suninen fighting for podium, Tänak with good stage times) but already in 2018 they were off the pace of the Toyotas (thanks to lack of aero development and the unbalanced aero on Ogier's car?) and it's just gone worse since.

Suninen is actually surprisingly good on technical gravel rallies, his podiums are Portugal, Sardegna and Mexico, and he has shown good pace in Sardegna in all years he's done with the WRC car

To me the Fiesta always looks like it moves around too much (pitch/roll) in the fast stuff compared with the other two, and as they have developed and got better the Fiesta hasn’t.
I’m only a guy watching, but it’s the first thing that stands out to me.

[djip]

For every other driver and all teams there things that they will for sure think about improving.

I think the biggest disapointment must be Neuville. He is blindlghtly quick on his stay by seems to be goig backwards since a few years. And his constant excuses (never his fault) are really annoying. Other than that it was pretty uch as expected. :

Toyota : Toyota : Ogier is the king when the pressure mounts, Although I rooted for Evans I was 100% certain he would clinch in Monza. Evans did make a big step forward (or was it the Ford thazt did not do him justice in the past ?), but is not quite there yet. Rovapanera is learning fast but give him some time - this is a game where you must be 100% perfect day-in, day-out. Katsuta did not show much (a stage win in a mickey mouse stage isn't much to be proud of ...).

Huyndai : It took Tanak some time to settle in, as expected, and he was rather unlucky on a number of second half events. Loeb has been disappointing and father time may have finally caught up. Breen has too small of a sample to be judged but did earn another crack next year which is as must as he could have hoped for. And yes, sordo is the positive surprize. He seems to have improved with time, amazing, isn't it ? Finally Loubet did pretty well for a first year in an old-spec car, but nothing that could let us believe he would become the next big thing...

Ford: How can we give justice to the drivers knowing that it was a survival year ? Yet I am disappointed by Sunninen who seems to have reached his peak. Lappi i think derserved better but he seems to loose his mojo when sings get difficult / sour. Happened at toyota, happened again this year. It's a tough game, you need to be mentally strong (ion addition to quick) and he seems to have a lack there ... Greensmith ... well, better not say anything, aside from we're happy and thankfull to have him around. As was said multiple times, he is not taking someone's seat and this is one more RC1 car to watch.

[djip]

and what about RC5 drivers ? Forget about WRC2/WRC3 split which is total nonsense, taking away whatever could be left of battles for win, when the WRC2 leader just cruises to the finish because there were only 5 starters out of which 4 had issues. Oh boy, those FIA guys are smoking grass ....

Yet these drivers are working hard and we need to give them justice.
- Ostberg : Had a good, yet unflashy (see above) year. And seems to have gelled well at Citroen. He must be ackowledged (together with Bonato) from making the C3 R5 a good (best ?) car, when it started total shite a few years ago
- Tidemand : Disappointing, given the hype that surrounded him a few years back. He almost won on consistency, not speed.
- Huttunen : Talk about a resurection. Would need to be gauged against real opposition though (aka WRC2). He may be the one with the biggest upside, though. And his 2 years of struggles may have done him good (mentally-wise), a bit as Tanak in his days.
- Fourmeaux : Did much better than expected and showed glimpses of hope. Need one more year for a proper assesment, but he may become a regular if he continues to improve
- Gryazin : hugely disappointing. Did not show anything positive
- Veiby : The same, plus crashing prone. impossible to judge his top class outing given the terrible weather conditions.
- Mikkelsen : Came in late and starred - same as 2018. Can it be that he is the ultimate R5 driver, but cannot really handle the new top class ? Give him the benefit of the doubt and a second chance. He must go back to top machinery, even at MSport. If he beats his team mate fair and square he'll re-establish hisq reputation.
-O.Solberg : impressive speed and pretty good for a first year (and considering his age). Need one more year to know if he is the "next big thing", or just a good driver with ample support, help and opportunities (same as, let's say Lance Stroll in F1)

Am i forgetting aznyone ? Bonato, Camilli, Kajetanowicz,, Lindholm,Bulacia, ... Not much to report from me (neither impressed nor disappointed)

[AnttiL]

and what about RC5 drivers ? Forget about WRC2/WRC3 split which is total nonsense, taking away whatever could be left of battles for win, when the WRC2 leader just cruises to the finish because there were only 5 starters out of which 4 had issues. Oh boy, those FIA guys are smoking grass ....

It's RC2, not RC5 :D but maybe this table which I made tells something. It gives the points as they would have been without the WRC2/3 split

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eokj5MPXMAMk5u2?format=jpg&name=medium

[Jarek Z]

It's RC2, not RC5 :D but maybe this table which I made tells something. It gives the points as they would have been without the WRC2/3 split

Come on AntiiL, Tidemand shoud never be in the first position in your table. He has 6 rallies, while Huttunen has only 4. That's not fair! ;)

[AnttiL]

Come on AntiiL, Tidemand shoud never be in the first position in your table. He has 6 rallies, while Huttunen has only 4. That's not fair! ;)

Yeah, if you apply the rule that only 5 best events count, then Tidemand drops 6 points, and Huttunen is the winner. That's basically the only channge for the table, all others who have done 6 events have 0 results that will drop.

[djip]

It's RC2, not RC5 :D but maybe this table which I made tells something. It gives the points as they would have been without the WRC2/3 split

Yes i saw this one - good work and the only meaningful result. As far as number of events, given it is an "amateur" championship i don't mind if the winner has one more round - Good for him making the trip to Mexico ! Of course I also agree that once the number of events is factored in, Huttunen really stands out ...

[mknight]

Remember Sweden 2019?

In Finland 2017 the Fiestas still had pace (Evans was second, Suninen fighting for podium, Tänak with good stage times) but already in 2018 they were off the pace of the Toyotas (thanks to lack of aero development and the unbalanced aero on Ogier's car?) and it's just gone worse since.

Suninen is actually surprisingly good on technical gravel rallies, his podiums are Portugal, Sardegna and Mexico, and he has shown good pace in Sardegna in all years he's done with the WRC car

I admit I actually forgot Sweden 2019. Was thinking mostly about 2018 Sweden, 2019 Finland and Sweden this year. Sure MSport has been falling behind lately but that doesn't fully explain that he is top 2/3 on speed in Sweden 2019 while far behind both before and after on similar rallies. Especially compared with Lappi in Sweden 2020 it was rather huge difference.

[AnttiL]

I admit I actually forgot Sweden 2019. Was thinking mostly about 2018 Sweden, 2019 Finland and Sweden this year. Sure MSport has been falling behind lately but that doesn't fully explain that he is top 2/3 on speed in Sweden 2019 while far behind both before and after on similar rallies. Especially compared with Lappi in Sweden 2020 it was rather huge difference.

I think Suninen's confidence went in this year's Sweden with the shakedown accident

[dimviii]

Tor Andre Børresen
@TorAndreBorrese
·
13m
Why is It being hidden by the media and @TGR_WRC
that @ElfynEvans
has Covid19? With the amount of people they have seen at Monza and been in contact with that did not know that's very wrong. Full transparency in F1 but not in WRC when It's possible to be hidden?

[Tom K]

We will see if he do a test with Toyota. Seems that Kalle jumped in.

[SubaruNorway]

We will see if he do a test with Toyota. Seems that Kalle jumped in today.

"WRC runner-up Elfyn Evans skipped this test, preferring to defer his running to his Monte pre-event test in January"

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyota-and-hyundai-try-pirellis-in-monte-carlo-rally-test/

I know the guy has had a though weekend and that they probably want to cover him from the media, I'm no expert but when people in WRC TV did not know It must be wrong? Or were they not close enough...

[PLuto]

Tor Andre Børresen
@TorAndreBorrese
·
13m
Why is It being hidden by the media and @TGR_WRC
that @ElfynEvans
has Covid19? With the amount of people they have seen at Monza and been in contact with that did not know that's very wrong. Full transparency in F1 but not in WRC when It's possible to be hidden?

Full transparency in F1? What a joke (also regarding covid)...

[EstWRC]

nice compilation vid of this year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quiZYKbA6XM

[SubaruNorway]

Full transparency in F1? What a joke (also regarding covid)...

Well i guess they have no choice when a driver can't do the race, maybe there has been some that we didn't hear about between races?
They seem to handle things pretty professional except for Racing Point in the Stroll case i guess.
Anyway, It was the comment by Toyota that they had not been in contact with people outside the team Is what reacted to.

[dimviii]

i had posted that,i just post it again if somebody missed it

Toyota GAZOO Racing WRT
@TGR_WRC
·
10 Dec
We can confirm that two team members have tested positive for COVID-19 in regular after-travel tests upon returning home from Rally Monza. These cases have been confirmed by a subsequent retest. (1/3)
The team members concerned are self-isolating in line with national guidelines, and the team wishes them a quick recovery. These team members have not been in close contact with anyone outside of our own team members. (2/3)
All other team members that were in Monza have been tested and have so far returned negative results. All team members are also undertaking retests to help confirm that there are no further cases. (3/3)

[PLuto]

Well i guess they have no choice when a driver can't do the race, maybe there has been some that we didn't hear about between races?
They seem to handle things pretty professional except for Racing Point in the Stroll case i guess.
Anyway, It was the comment by Toyota that they had not been in contact with people outside the team Is what reacted to.

Reality and media presentation were completely different... But of course, if the driver cannot start, it is difficult to hide it, of course. But it was more about the team members...

[SubaruNorway]

i had posted that,i just post it again if somebody missed it

Yes i saw that Toyota tweet many days ago and assumed it was someone else than a driver because it said
"These team members have not been in close contact with anyone outside of our own team members"
Which i know for a fact is not true and some were quite surprised when they now found out, unless they know for sure they were infected on the plane home?

Not close enough?

[the sniper]

If he became infected over the weekend he wouldn't have become infectious immediately. If he caught it hanging around on an Italian hill side on Saturday, he wouldn't have been infectious on Sunday, surely?

The question is when was the last clear Covid test he had.

[bluuford]

You know, when you are considered as a "close contact" person, then you need to spend 14 days in isolation as well or end your isolation with COVID test on 10th day. Rules vary a bit depending on the country, but you still have to go through this isolation period and there is no other way. As medical data is strictly confidential, please, respect their privacy.

[SubaruNorway]

Rules must also be respected to not put the WRC in a bad light in the future. In Norway you just recently can get out of quarantine with 2 negative tests within 4 days for athletes, I don't know if this is common elsewhere?

[denkimi]

In belgium you need to quarantine yourself for 7 days if you have symptoms, and for 10 days if you dont have symptoms.

And if you think that doesn't make sense, you should try to understand all our other idiotic rules.

[mknight]

Dirtfish ranking Rally2 drivers:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/erc/the-top-rally2-drivers-of-2020/

(By Luke Barry who's writings I rank higher than Evans and much higher than Clark in terms of objectivity)

List is somewhat ok I only have a few issues:

- Breen is not there...hard to know when tires are disadvantage and advantage but he did win on Pirelli at Rally di Alba against Sordo and Huttunen

- Munster was pretty unimpressive for me
this year

- Luykanuk as 6th for using his head more and winning the title instead og pointless crashes

- Formaux 2nd for winning just one rally with real competition and listed as "winning 4 rallies"

Basically I'd drop Formaux 3 places and put Luykanuk up 2-3 places and it's somewhat ok.

(Mikkelsen clearly has to be on a list of top Rally2 drivers this year, but impossible to place him with just 3 rallies, so putting 5th is a simple compromise)

[TheFlyingTuga]

That list is a bit of a joke. Bonato was French Champion and in his four outings outside french he was on the podium three times. He is not even on the list

[Mirek]

Dirtfish is all joke unfortunately. These irrelevant rankings are just laughable.

[mknight]

That list is a bit of a joke. Bonato was French Champion and in his four outings outside french he was on the podium three times. He is not even on the list

Are you counting Monte as outside of France when all stages are in France?

Anyway I agree he would deserve it more than Munster, even though his Hungary start was a disaster.

[TheFlyingTuga]

Are you counting Monte as outside of France when all stages are in France?

Anyway I agree he would deserve it more than Munster, even though his Hungary start was a disaster.

Yeah, it's not French Championship. Munster wasn't bad enough, but Crugnola in there is strange.

[EstWRC]

DIRTFISH’S TOP 10 WRC DRIVERS OF 2020

scroll down if you dont want to listen to the podcast.


https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/podcast-dirtfishs-top-10-wrc-drivers-of-2020/

[mknight]

It's not so bad. Except Neuville at 6th and Clark wanting til put hun even lower.

Hard to judge Breen on two rallies, but if you take into account starts outside of WRC he should be on the list.

Maybe a bit harsh on Lappi and Suninen, with no testing and development.

Always a problem to judge WRC2 when Østberg doesn't need to beat the WRC3 guys that are faster.
Maybe a bit too much hype on Solberg, surely due to his end of the year results and Hyundais deal.

[mknight]

Also no Huttunen on the list, who actually won the WRC3 even with one less start than Solberg.

[rallyfiend]

It's not so bad. Except Neuville at 6th and Clark wanting til put hun even lower.

Hard to judge Breen on two rallies, but if you take into account starts outside of WRC he should be on the list.

Maybe a bit harsh on Lappi and Suninen, with no testing and development.

Always a problem to judge WRC2 when Østberg doesn't need to beat the WRC3 guys that are faster.
Maybe a bit too much hype on Solberg, surely due to his end of the year results and Hyundais deal.

Solberg is also sponsored by DirtFish....