2019 Italian GP - Monza

[Nitrodaze]

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Monza is a horsepower track. The track is made of four main straights which lends themselves very well to the powerful engine in the Ferrari. Ferrari come into this weekend from a triumphant win in Spa after a year long draught without a win. The win did not come without some threat from a conservative Mercedes running with a turn down engine after two Mercedes powerplant failures in the Racing point and Williams.

Chances are Monza shall be a repeat of Spa Francorchamps, as there seem to be no real challenger on the horsepower front. The question really is; which Ferrari car is going to win this race? Leclerc showed that he has the pace to blow the rest of the grid away, can he repeat that feat at Monza. I have a feeling that Vettel would be very keen to address being beaten at Spa. Can Mercedes challenge the Ferrari with some clever strategy? This is a race not to miss.


https://www.f1-direct.net/2018/img/15%20Italie/180044_ita.jpg

The Tifosi would be full of zeal this weekend and well expectant of another Ferrari win. Monza is a venue that manifest such emotional and fullbodied enthusiasm for motorsport like very few places on the F1 calendar. It is likely to be a scene of a spectacular crowd prominently dotted with the red of Ferrari.

And my favorite grid girl shot from the 2017 Monza GP
https://sf1.viepratique.fr/wp-content/uploads/sites/17/2017/09/XPB_902896_1200px-750x410.jpg
https://www.formule1.nl/app/uploads/2017/09/formule1_racepictures_20170903-0145s-1500x1000.jpg

[The Black Knight]

Absolute shambles Q3 in F1. Every one of those teams and drivers should be disqualified from the race tomorrow. Utter fucking stupidity. I’m a paying member of the public to witness that shambolic bullshit. Disqualify everyone of the top ten.

[truefan72]

Absolute shambles Q3 in F1. Every one of those teams and drivers should be disqualified from the race tomorrow. Utter fucking stupidity. I’m a paying member of the public to witness that shambolic bullshit. Disqualify everyone of the top ten.

Well. That was ridiculous. I blame the strategists. If i was mercedes. i would have gone out early since they are furthest back from the grid and then sat back and watched. But yeah. This was a shambolic Q3.

[truefan72]

BTW that Peroni F3 crash was really scary. I've rarely seen a racing car go that airborne. Thankfully he completely walked away from it.
Also, as a result, The FIA have removed all curbs on parabolica etc.
the right decision

[Bagwan]

Absolute shambles Q3 in F1. Every one of those teams and drivers should be disqualified from the race tomorrow. Utter fucking stupidity. I’m a paying member of the public to witness that shambolic bullshit. Disqualify everyone of the top ten.

Calm down , dude .
You were there to witness history .

It was a stupid moment , but one that will be remembered for a long time .
It's somewhere close to what was a likely result in qually anyway , so shouldn't have much effect on the race .

This should be a good one , with the top players all close , and slipstreams less affected by DRS , with teams running rear wings that are being described as "not wings at all" .

Be happy , TBK .
You'll be there to see it .
I'm desperately envious .

[zako85]

Absolute shambles Q3 in F1. Every one of those teams and drivers should be disqualified from the race tomorrow. Utter fucking stupidity. I’m a paying member of the public to witness that shambolic bullshit. Disqualify everyone of the top ten.

And Kimi gets the pole.

[airshifter]

Well really there isn't much they can do. Nobody is required to do a lap, and for the most part anyone other than the first couple cars couldn't get on with it and try to turn a lap.

Merc and Renault mastered the tow, but Ferrari seemed to have had a hard time. Hard to say if Merc can take the fight to Leclerc with race pace or not.

[Tazio]

BTW that Peroni F3 crash was really scary. I've rarely seen a racing car go that airborne. Thankfully he completely walked away from it.
Also, as a result, The FIA have removed all curbs on parabolica etc.
the right decision
That thing looked like a piece of freakin' tin foil fluttering around in the breeze! :eek:

[Nitrodaze]

It was really crap from a spectator's perspective but not necessarily against the rules. I hope they don't head off and change the rules. If they do, then they could say 4 minutes to the end of Q3 is the latest time that a car can go out on track, any later that do not make it to the start line on time may be penalized or something. Or the race director may exercise the right to add an extra lap if it looked likely that 80% of the grid would not make it to the start line for whatever reasons. Any of these options would be unnecessary as this sort of thing rarely happen.

[truefan72]

It was really crap from a spectator's perspective but not necessarily against the rules. I hope they don't head off and change the rules. If they do, then they could say 4 minutes to the end of Q3 is the latest time that a car can go out on track, any later that do not make it to the start line on time may be penalized or something. Or the race director may exercise the right to add an extra lap if it looked likely that 80% of the grid would not make it to the start line for whatever reasons. Any of these options would be unnecessary as this sort of thing rarely happen.

Exactly. You don't change the rules because of the stupidity of the team strategists. I don't even blame the drivers in this case. The teams should have sent them out much sooner than that to avoid this nonsense. Utterly foolish by them. As soon as it went green some teams should have simply gone out. Even if they all made it in time to start a lap it still would have been chaos trying to get a good lap in.

[truefan72]

Also the FIA explanation for why vettel's lap wasn't disqualified was laughable. He cleary was off track and that lap expunged. It is cowardice (yet again) by the stewards because it was a ferrari at monza. Smh

[Tazio]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh Fettel! :dork:

[airshifter]

Seb being his own worst enemy again. And a well deserved penalty for the way he rejoined.

I think Stroll should get a penalty as well.

[Tazio]

Karma's a bitch! :cool:

[truefan72]

Vettel got a 10sec stop go penalty. He will struggle to get any points. Stroll a drive throigh penalty. Shame forcstroll he was going well.
This could be a big day for the works renault team

[Tazio]

ALFA being stupid!

[airshifter]

Ferrari go to hard tires?

[Tazio]

Mclerc being naughty?

[truefan72]

Oh dear alfa romero. Put kimi on the wrong tires

[truefan72]

Useless mclaren. Smh.

[Tazio]

'vyat!

[airshifter]

If Leclerc can keep this up, Lewis is going to lose some time with laps. But now Bottas might be there with fresher tires and another fight,

Lewis is trying hard, I'm surprised he can't quite get there.

[Tazio]

Ugh "The Boss" ! :blackeye:

[Tazio]

Come on 'ottas! :dork:

[airshifter]

Round two.... will the tires let him challenge?

[truefan72]

Jeezuz bottas. Omg makes a mistake at the worst possible place. Ugh

[Tazio]

Alright McLerc. Well played! DOD
Donkey of the race...... Fettel!

[Tazio]

.....and the crowd goes wild! :dork:

[airshifter]

Merc tossed all options they had at Leclerc, but Charles managed to get it done.

The podium insanity will begin, and it's well deserved this time.

[Tazio]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMnM_cQu6Fo
:stareup:

[truefan72]

Well well well. The stewards gave leclerc every benefit of the doubt in this race. But he drove a solid race. So congrats. the ferrari was always gonna be strong in this race. Almost like they built the 2019 car for this race.
Hamilton tried but ran out of tires. Good damage control to finish 3rd and fastest lap to minimize his wdc. Bottas had a moment but chuffed it on turn 1. Solid drive from him.
Im really happy for renault. A mighty result.
Finally some points for Gio. Norris and verstappen did well. Not much to say about vettel.

[Nitrodaze]

Well well well. The stewards gave leclerc every benefit of the doubt in this race. But he drove a solid race. So congrats. the ferrari was always gonna be strong in this race. Almost like they built the 2019 car for this race.
Hamilton tried but ran out of tires. Good damage control to finish 3rd and fastest lap to minimize his wdc. Bottas had a moment but chuffed it on turn 1. Solid drive from him.
Im really happy for renault. A mighty result.
Finally some points for Gio. Norris and verstappen did well. Not much to say about vettel.

I am happy for Ferrari and Leclerc for the win at Monza. They deserved it. But l found the Stewards leniency questionable. It looked more like someone got their hands greased. There were very clear infractions, firstly, forcing Hamilton of the track when they were clearly side by side. Secondly, weaving from side to side while the Mercedes was trying to overtake. Leclerc had the right to defend, but that sort of defending can be dangerous. Finally, cutting the chicane and gaining an advantage.

Somehow the stewards were blind to all of these things. Makes you wonder don't it?

[Nitrodaze]

This was a race of mediocrity. Q3 was a joke. Then Vettel spun all on his own and made a dodgy re-entry to the track and tagged Stroll whom in turn while complaining about Vettel does exactly the same action then sent Gastly off the track in avoiding action. We see cars punting other cars off the track. Is this is the new mode of doing battle on track henceforth. I see Hamilton had nothing to say about this. I have a feeling Hamilton would be very happy to adopt this new way of racing.

That said, what a great race for Renault. For the first time this season, Renault beats Redbull on merit on the power track of Monza. Abiteboul would have a wry smile and some pleasure from the result. The suggestion is the Renault engine might be faster than the Honda engine but the Renault chassis lets the engine down. Which l think might give Ricciado some comfort that there might be a light at the end of the tunnel afterall.

[Nitrodaze]

.....and the crowd goes wild! :dork:

Yea, it is looking like there is a changing of the guard going on within Ferrari with Leclerc having two wins to Vettel's zero. The important thing about this win, is that Leclerc has matched Verstapenn with two wins each and have helped Ferrari to match the Redbull team.

[Nitrodaze]

Black and white flag, a new softer message before points penalty is imposed by the stewards. Hearing the reasoning of the race director, he pointed out that Monza was a demonstration of how they intend to use the flag, which now introduces a threshold of contact as a precursor to points based penalty. If there is no contact, then the stewards shall be using the black and white flag to indicate to the offending driver that the next infraction of that same incident would result in a point or drive through penalty.

As with everything, nothing is perfect. The victim of the incident that cause the black and white flag to be issued would have suffered a loss of opportunity of some sort. The flag does not compensate them in anyway. Take Aikins win in F2, he weaved both ways to keep a faster King behind and got a black and white flag. King pays the penalty of losing tyre efficiency while fighting behind a slower weaving car ahead but the car ahead is not penalized and went on to win the race.

There is a very clear parallel of the F2 race to the F1 race. My question is "What if the attacking driver did not take avoiding action?" "What if the attacking driver let the defending one drive into him to make a point"

The weak point of the no contact threshold is it relies on the attacking driver to avoid contact but at the cost to the attacking driver. This new approach contradicts the "give a car's width" requirement for battling through the corners. This new rule say, the defending driver do not need to give a cars width, he is free to take up the racing line and shove the attacking car off the track in the process.

The gentlemanly convention of racing is being tossed aside for a more street mentality approach to racing. The dodgy racing attitudes of the junior formulas is filtering upwards into F1 and the Stewards and the FIA are letting it.

[airshifter]

I am happy for Ferrari and Leclerc for the win at Monza. They deserved it. But l found the Stewards leniency questionable. It looked more like someone got their hands greased. There were very clear infractions, firstly, forcing Hamilton of the track when they were clearly side by side. Secondly, weaving from side to side while the Mercedes was trying to overtake. Leclerc had the right to defend, but that sort of defending can be dangerous. Finally, cutting the chicane and gaining an advantage.

Somehow the stewards were blind to all of these things. Makes you wonder don't it?

Being shown the flag isn't blind, and Lewis barely went a tire off on a corner where many people not in a fight did the same. I personally like the re-introduction of the flag, as it lets drivers know that they are pushing the limits of the rules, and by all accounts that is what they should do rather than cause contact when fighting for positions.

As for moves defending, all the ones I thought were suspect I replayed, and Leclerc only made one move. As for gaining an advantage on the chicane, he went from over 4/10ths to nothing and clearly gained nothing in that mistake. Following the attack Lewis made, Leclerc only moved once, it's simply that he moved right to the racing line just as Lewis bolted left thinking about a dive inside. If Lewis felt it was not unsafe to move left, surely Leclerc moving right made it less dangerous if anything. Lewis moved more times than Leclerc did between those corners, he just didn't get a shot to get by him.


Renault did an amazing job here.

Racing point had a slow start to the race, but excepting Strolls move, made some progress back up.

[Bagwan]

While it's true that Chuck didn't leave a car width for Lulu , one might wonder how Lulu thought about making an outside move there .
That was never going to work ...just sayin'.

But , that said , it was pretty marginal , and did deserve a warning , so I'm glad they have that black/white option for these grey moments again .
And certainly , very nice to see Masi there to explain the decisions , right after the race . I hope this idea becomes a regular feature .

[Nitrodaze]

While it's true that Chuck didn't leave a car width for Lulu , one might wonder how Lulu thought about making an outside move there .
That was never going to work ...just sayin' .

I suppose, you mean the track was wide enough for only one car to go through it. Mind you, l am not criticizing Leclerc, he has been shown by Verstapenn at the Austrian GP, that this is the way to defend and the stewards condoned it, and Leclerc has used it to good effect in this race. Sainz has shown Albon and Leclerc has shown Hamilton, the knowledge spreads. Now they would go ahead and show other drivers the new way of defending. I am only interested in how this is going to turn out in the end.

[Nitrodaze]

Being shown the flag isn't blind, and Lewis barely went a tire off on a corner where many people not in a fight did the same. I personally like the re-introduction of the flag, as it lets drivers know that they are pushing the limits of the rules, and by all accounts that is what they should do rather than cause contact when fighting for positions.

As for moves defending, all the ones I thought were suspect I replayed, and Leclerc only made one move. As for gaining an advantage on the chicane, he went from over 4/10ths to nothing and clearly gained nothing in that mistake. Following the attack Lewis made, Leclerc only moved once, it's simply that he moved right to the racing line just as Lewis bolted left thinking about a dive inside. If Lewis felt it was not unsafe to move left, surely Leclerc moving right made it less dangerous if anything. Lewis moved more times than Leclerc did between those corners, he just didn't get a shot to get by him.


Renault did an amazing job here.

Racing point had a slow start to the race, but excepting Strolls move, made some progress back up.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. but l surmise from it that you think this new level of aggressive defending is fine. You have to notice that Hamilton did not complain at all. Because what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

As far as cutting the chicane goes, he was not punished at all by the run off area for his mistake, such that he was able to maintain his lead from a battle which he was roughly 0.5 sec ahead. That said, he was able to rejoin the race safely. But run off areas are suppose to punish drivers who make mistake and enter those sort of areas for safety reasons.

The run off area in question was not effective, if a driver can drive at race speed through them and not lose significant amount of time driving through them. Errors are rewarded in this scenario.

[truefan72]

Yea, it is looking like there is a changing of the guard going on within Ferrari with Leclerc having two wins to Vettel's zero. The important thing about this win, is that Leclerc has matched Verstapenn with two wins each and have helped Ferrari to match the Redbull team.

Lol. I said last race it was a changing of the guard. This race confirms it for me. The real question is how Vettel will deal with the situation.

[truefan72]

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. but l surmise from it that you think this new level of aggressive defending is fine. You have to notice that Hamilton did not complain at all. Because what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

As far as cutting the chicane goes, he was not punished at all by the run off area for his mistake, such that he was able to maintain his lead from a battle which he was roughly 0.5 sec ahead. That said, he was able to rejoin the race safely. But run off areas are suppose to punish drivers who make mistake and enter those sort of areas for safety reasons.

The run off area in question was not effective, if a driver can drive at race speed through them and not lose significant amount of time driving through them. Errors are rewarded in this scenario.

TBH he was supposed to go around those styrofoam chicanes, which he didn't.
At the end of the day we got some thrills and spills. A ferrari win and Hamilton maintaining his WDc championship lead.
I do like LeClerc but of the 3 incidents the weaving defending was the one i was a bit annoyed with...which incidentally is the hardest to adjudicate from the stewards.
I did find them to be a bit lenient toward that car during the race. Almost as if fearful of handing an actual penalty.
But LeClerc drove well. made the hards work and maximised the superior straight line speed to his advantage throughout the whole race.
Overall. I was entertained and now look forward to singapore.

[Duncan]

Lots to talk about this weekend; weird to think that earlier in the season all the commentary was about how boring F1 had become these days...

The Q3 fiasco was pretty entertaining. Personally I'm really not all that worried about it; these things tend to self-correct pretty quickly, but this is going to be right up there with "Schumi parking at Rascasse" in the list of "stupid things that happened in qualifying".

Great drive from Leclerc to resist pressure from both Hamilton and Bottas, and although he certainly had his elbows out in a few places I thought that was pretty reasonable hard racing. The incident at della Roggia was a bit over the line, but the use of the black and white flag seemed appropriate to me. Good that the stewards have that option - it would have been really unfortunate if they had done something like issue a 5 second penalty or told him to give a place up for that, but equally it shouldn't be left un-noted.

And OMG Vettel. Awful performances in both qualifying and the race, and I'm seriously starting to doubt whether we'll see him next season. If he's going to keep going, he needs to get it together in a hurry. That incident with Stroll was potentially extremely dangerous, and could easily have resulted in a high speed t-bone accident. Particularly given the tragic events of last weekend, the stewards had no option to smack that down hard. I wonder if we'll see a new "rules clarification" or something stating that when a driver is re-entering the track and is unsighted to approaching traffic, they must wait for radio instructions before rejoining. Or something like that.

Great result from Renault (finally). Not sure what they were able to find here, but they had great pace all weekend. Be interesting to see if this is a one-off or whether they can continue to improve. Particularly with a terrible weekend from McLaren, they might sense an opening.

[Bagwan]

I suppose, you mean the track was wide enough for only one car to go through it. Mind you, l am not criticizing Leclerc, he has been shown by Verstapenn at the Austrian GP, that this is the way to defend and the stewards condoned it, and Leclerc has used it to good effect in this race. Sainz has shown Albon and Leclerc has shown Hamilton, the knowledge spreads. Now they would go ahead and show other drivers the new way of defending. I am only interested in how this is going to turn out in the end.

Well , what I mean is that you really need to convince the guy inside , by being farther along or even ahead , to have him leave room , because by that point he's pretty committed to the line he's taking .
You're trying to force him to brake earlier than you , because he must leave room if you're even with him .

It has to be that way , as they really can't see right beside them , as the bolsters block the view , especially when they are "submarined" into the cockpit under braking .
This was clearly shown with both Vettel and Stroll in the race (not the submarine part , the view, in case you hadn't figured that out already).

[Nitrodaze]

Well , what I mean is that you really need to convince the guy inside , by being farther along or even ahead , to have him leave room , because by that point he's pretty committed to the line he's taking .
You're trying to force him to brake earlier than you , because he must leave room if you're even with him .

It has to be that way , as they really can't see right beside them , as the bolsters block the view , especially when they are "submarined" into the cockpit under braking .
This was clearly shown with both Vettel and Stroll in the race (not the submarine part , the view, in case you hadn't figured that out already).

That's why there are those flimsy glass things called mirrors on either side of the car. Besides, Hamilton was right beside him, he could see the nose of the car without straining. It was hard racing which Verstapenn has introduced into F1.

[denkimi]

I suppose, you mean the track was wide enough for only one car to go through it. Mind you, l am not criticizing Leclerc, he has been shown by Verstapenn at the Austrian GP, that this is the way to defend and the stewards condoned it, and Leclerc has used it to good effect in this race. Sainz has shown Albon and Leclerc has shown Hamilton, the knowledge spreads. Now they would go ahead and show other drivers the new way of defending. I am only interested in how this is going to turn out in the end.
It will either turn out into having much more incidents and crashes, or into having far less overtakes. I suspect mostly the latter, since even small contact can destroy your entire race.

If the defending driver is allowed to weave, change direction under braking and push you off the track as long as he's on the inside, overtaking becomes nearly impossible except with drs on the straight.

That's what we are already seeing right now, hamilton backing off for 40 laps because he can't overtake on the straight, and can't overtake somewhere else without risking being pushed off.

All thanks to the fia who didn't have the balls to punish the dutch kid for his dangerous karting moves.

[Bagwan]

That's why there are those flimsy glass things called mirrors on either side of the car. Besides, Hamilton was right beside him, he could see the nose of the car without straining. It was hard racing which Verstapenn has introduced into F1.

“To be completely honest, obviously I knew he was on the right, he braked a little bit early which I think was probably on purpose because he didn’t want to try around the outside,” .

So , he knew he was there , but didn't expect him to try it , knowing he was braking early .
He likely saw him in those mirrors you mentioned , but I would suspect his awareness of his rival beside him was more likely due to him hearing him than seeing him .You really can't see anyone beside you in these cars without being almost even with them .

Leclerc didn't expect him to try around the outside , and I believe that's because , in order to get it done one needs to be much farther in to actually make it work at all .
Any move like that requires a hefty amount of intimidation from the guy making it , and that intimidation comes from convincing the guy ahead that you are going to be in the way when he gets there .

Lewis showing his nose there was perhaps , at best , an attempt to compromise the kid's corner entry , because he was never far enough alongside to actually make the move stick .

[N. Jones]

I think Hamilton's statement after the race was weird as he basically said if he or Vettel squeeze someone out it's OK but if Max or Charles do it then they should be penalized.

I also think that Hamilton is not happy that these two kids are beating him, although not enough to challenge him for the title, as he is easily going to easily win that.

[Nitrodaze]

TBH he was supposed to go around those styrofoam chicanes, which he didn't.
At the end of the day we got some thrills and spills. A ferrari win and Hamilton maintaining his WDc championship lead.
I do like LeClerc but of the 3 incidents the weaving defending was the one i was a bit annoyed with...which incidentally is the hardest to adjudicate from the stewards.
I did find them to be a bit lenient toward that car during the race. Almost as if fearful of handing an actual penalty.
But LeClerc drove well. made the hards work and maximised the superior straight line speed to his advantage throughout the whole race.
Overall. I was entertained and now look forward to singapore.

It is beginning to appear that the stewards are intimidated by certain elements of the ownership of a number of european circuits. It might be the fans [mob], team owners or venue management. Whatever the case, it was quite clear the stewards seemed terrified to make any other decision than the ones that they made at Austria and recently at Italy [Monza].

[Mia 01]

Leclerc - Hamilton, I Think it was hard bur fair racing. But, the driver with most fans usually wins the debate.

[Tazio]

:stareup: :sailor:

[The Black Knight]

Leclerc - Hamilton, I Think it was hard bur fair racing. But, the driver with most fans usually wins the debate.

A couple of months ago it would have incurred a penalty. The teams encouraged the FIA to change their stance on penalties since then. The thing that really causes this controversy is the confusion for the fans. The FIA, for example, don’t point to a past incident and say this that was previously a 5 second penalty is now a black and white flag and on the second occasion a 5 second penalty. Michel Masi explaining to Anthony Davisdon on the Sky Pad why a different decision was made this time around isn’t enough and the message doesn’t reach all fans. It’s still confusing because the goalposts keep moving. Personally I think these rule changes should not be made mid season. It should be consistent from season start to finish unless required for safety.

If this is now the way forward I have no issue with what happened with LeClerc and Hamilton once this approach is now applied consistently. Unfortunately, the most likely truth, is that it’s application will be inconsistent and, well, even more confusing.

[Nitrodaze]

A couple of months ago it would have incurred a penalty. The teams encouraged the FIA to change their stance on penalties since then. The thing that really causes this controversy is the confusion for the fans. The FIA, for example, don’t point to a past incident and say this that was previously a 5 second penalty is now a black and white flag and on the second occasion a 5 second penalty. Michel Masi explaining to Anthony Davisdon on the Sky Pad why a different decision was made this time around isn’t enough and the message doesn’t reach all fans. It’s still confusing because the goalposts keep moving. Personally I think these rule changes should not be made mid season. It should be consistent from season start to finish unless required for safety.

If this is now the way forward I have no issue with what happened with LeClerc and Hamilton once this approach is now applied consistently. Unfortunately, the most likely truth, is that it’s application will be inconsistent and, well, even more confusing.

I think they have not done a thorough analysis of what sort of driving behavior should warrant a black and white flag. The "no contact" criteria is not a fair one, as there is no contact because the offended driver has taken action to avoid a collision, which is why there is no contact. Ask the offended driver, he would say just that. The new approach contradicts quite a few existing rules. Which is why l agree with you that this sort of major change to the rules ought to be introduced at the beginning of a fresh season and not midway though an existing one.

I think they have a job on their hands achieving consistency. I am not sure if things has changed from old, but did black and white flag not use to be a flag that is waved before a black flag is waved? As they have yet to go to the next stage after the black and white flag has been imposed, are they going to issue the black flag for the repeat offence?

[OOG]

Well , what I mean is that you really need to convince the guy inside , by being farther along or even ahead , to have him leave room , because by that point he's pretty committed to the line he's taking .
You're trying to force him to brake earlier than you , because he must leave room if you're even with him .

It has to be that way , as they really can't see right beside them , as the bolsters block the view , especially when they are "submarined" into the cockpit under braking .
This was clearly shown with both Vettel and Stroll in the race (not the submarine part , the view, in case you hadn't figured that out already).

Four things stood out for me during the weekend...

1. Q3 debacle was entirely avoidable, the teams chose to dance and the song ended early. Result was the same. Mercedes were the only losers in this, however I doubt Toto and Valteri could ever have the "I want you to tow Lulu to pole" conversation.
2. LeClerc's pass on the Renault into Parabolica...massive courage on hard tires. Had to get it done there. Got me on my feet.
3. LeClerc chose his line into the chicane. Lulu chose his. The track ran out at the end of Lulu's line and he continued on in any case. He should have braked and fallen in. It was not evident that LeClerc jinked to push Lulu over, it looked steady and solid from my view. I was hampered by Monza's tiny video screens, but he looked good to me (and several thousand Tifosi) Hamilton did not convince, he should give way...
4. Ferrari let the wrong driver go at the end of last year.

PS Quick note to Liberty Media - I want to hear the cars drive off onto the formation lap, not have them drowned out by the techno of DJ Doofus. I like EDM and Dance as much as the next guy but we paid to hear the cars, not the band....

[Nitrodaze]

Four things stood out for me during the weekend...

1. Q3 debacle was entirely avoidable, the teams chose to dance and the song ended early. Result was the same. Mercedes were the only losers in this, however I doubt Toto and Valteri could ever have the "I want you to tow Lulu to pole" conversation.
2. LeClerc's pass on the Renault into Parabolica...massive courage on hard tires. Had to get it done there. Got me on my feet.
3. LeClerc chose his line into the chicane. Lulu chose his. The track ran out at the end of Lulu's line and he continued on in any case. He should have braked and fallen in. It was not evident that LeClerc jinked to push Lulu over, it looked steady and solid from my view. I was hampered by Monza's tiny video screens, but he looked good to me (and several thousand Tifosi) Hamilton did not convince, he should give way...
4. Ferrari let the wrong driver go at the end of last year.

PS Quick note to Liberty Media - I want to hear the cars drive off onto the formation lap, not have them drowned out by the techno of DJ Doofus. I like EDM and Dance as much as the next guy but we paid to hear the cars, not the band....

I eagerly look forward to the next race. We have amco barriers at Singapore, so the defensive squeeze is going to be sweet there.

[Bagwan]

Four things stood out for me during the weekend...

1. Q3 debacle was entirely avoidable, the teams chose to dance and the song ended early. Result was the same. Mercedes were the only losers in this, however I doubt Toto and Valteri could ever have the "I want you to tow Lulu to pole" conversation.
2. LeClerc's pass on the Renault into Parabolica...massive courage on hard tires. Had to get it done there. Got me on my feet.
3. LeClerc chose his line into the chicane. Lulu chose his. The track ran out at the end of Lulu's line and he continued on in any case. He should have braked and fallen in. It was not evident that LeClerc jinked to push Lulu over, it looked steady and solid from my view. I was hampered by Monza's tiny video screens, but he looked good to me (and several thousand Tifosi) Hamilton did not convince, he should give way...
4. Ferrari let the wrong driver go at the end of last year.

PS Quick note to Liberty Media - I want to hear the cars drive off onto the formation lap, not have them drowned out by the techno of DJ Doofus. I like EDM and Dance as much as the next guy but we paid to hear the cars, not the band....

Nice to see you back , my friend .

On your #4 , though .
Kimi has got to be happier without all the red whine . He seems more of a vodka guy .

[Tazio]

Nice to see you back , my friend .

On your #4 , though .
Kimi has got to be happier without all the red whine . He seems more of a vodka guy .With hindsight it is easy to be critical; but if Kimi was partnered with McLerc at Ferrari, they probably wouldn't have scored any less points than they have with Fettel, maybe even more! One thing I will say about Kimi is he is very malleable, and just gets on with it wherever he serves :dork:

[Bagwan]

With hindsight it is easy to be critical; but if Kimi was partnered with McLerc at Ferrari, they probably wouldn't have scored any less points than they have with Fettel, maybe even more! One thing I will say about Kimi is he is very malleable, and just gets on with it wherever he serves :dork:

I was talking about Kimi's happiness , not Ferrari's , Taz-man .

[journeyman racer]

In theory, Leclerc should've got a penalty for tagging Hamilton off. They were going straight, then into a right hand corner. So there was no need to turn left, especially as Hamilton was already there and not impeding Leclerc.

It more than just what happened there and then. Had Leclerc not impeded Hamilton, then Hamilton would've had a chance to pass Leclerc into the first Lesmo.

But I wouldn't trust any of the race director Masi, who's just winging it, or a blowhard like Derek Warwick.

[journeyman racer]

Leclerc is the first guy since Hamilton to follow up their first win with a second in the next race.

The first time this season that (The first since Azerbaijan last year) Bottas put himself in a position of strength ahead of Hamilton after trailing behind him most of the race.

[Nitrodaze]

Leclerc is the first guy since Hamilton to follow up their first win with a second in the next race.

The first time this season that (The first since Azerbaijan last year) Bottas put himself in a position of strength ahead of Hamilton after trailing behind him most of the race.

Bottas is still performing very well but his lack of wins since Baku is what is making it look like he is slipping. His race now is with Verstapenn and Leclerc, all of which has won two races each and are within touching distance of 2nd in the drivers championship.

The Bottas 2.0 reputation would be intact if he manages to maintain 2nd in the championship at the end of the season. If he can win the driver's title somehow, he would attain a legendary status of the greatest comeback of all time.

[Tazio]

I was talking about Kimi's happiness , not Ferrari's , Taz-man .
My bad Baggy. It was an opinion I wanted to express. I shouldn't have quoted you....Sorry dawg! :)

BTW what do you make of this?
https://beyondtheflag.com/2019/09/14/formula-1-jacques-villeneuve-ridiculously-trashes-charles-leclerc-once-again/

I think Jacques had a legitimate concern, although I don't think it is egregious enough to call it a Magnussen! :sailor:

[Bagwan]

My bad Baggy. It was an opinion I wanted to express. I shouldn't have quoted you....Sorry dawg! :)

BTW what do you make of this?
https://beyondtheflag.com/2019/09/14/formula-1-jacques-villeneuve-ridiculously-trashes-charles-leclerc-once-again/

I think Jacques had a legitimate concern, although I don't think it is egregious enough to call it a Magnussen! :sailor:

No worries , buddy .
It looks to me like Chuck LeCluck just has a better handle on the red wheel than Vittles .
Seb reminds me a little of Kimi at the wheel of the Lotus , where he said he couldn't feel the road with the steering having been changed to "by wire" .


I love Jacques's candor . Say it like it is .
And , he's right most of the time , but folks can't always handle the truth .
He's got to be giggling about pussy Rosberg claiming he's changing his ways after claiming to be shocked at being compared to JV .

[Tazio]

No worries , buddy .


He's got to be giggling about pussy Rosberg claiming he's changing his ways after claiming to be shocked at being compared to JV .Nico can act like a little poop butt! :p

[Bagwan]

Nico can act like a little poop butt! :p

A "poop butt" ?
Really ?

Is there a small , impressionable child sitting beside you at the computer , or something ?
"poop butt" ?

You got me giggling there .




It does fit , though .

[journeyman racer]

The Bottas 2.0 reputation would be intact if he manages to maintain 2nd in the championship at the end of the season. If he can win the driver's title somehow, he would attain a legendary status of the greatest comeback of all time.

Can you imagine the sequence of events that would have to occur for Bottas to win the title? The internet would explode!

[journeyman racer]

Bottas' race affirms un my mind what he should be doing if he isn't already ahead of Hamilton in the races. Be close enough to Hamilton to take advantage of any errors he makes. This is what I was talking about in Canada, and is what occurred last weekend.

[Nitrodaze]

It will either turn out into having much more incidents and crashes, or into having far less overtakes. I suspect mostly the latter, since even small contact can destroy your entire race.

If the defending driver is allowed to weave, change direction under braking and push you off the track as long as he's on the inside, overtaking becomes nearly impossible except with drs on the straight.

That's what we are already seeing right now, hamilton backing off for 40 laps because he can't overtake on the straight, and can't overtake somewhere else without risking being pushed off.

All thanks to the fia who didn't have the balls to punish the dutch kid for his dangerous karting moves.

After all those regulations to promote close racing and improve overtaking, the new rules would produce a fast procession you mean? The rest of the season would be quite boring in that case. You are quite right in your observation.

[Nitrodaze]

Can you imagine the sequence of events that would have to occur for Bottas to win the title? The internet would explode!

The 2016 season showed us that anything is possible.

[Nitrodaze]

Leclerc - Hamilton, I Think it was hard bur fair racing. But, the driver with most fans usually wins the debate.

I always enjoy your one liners, it is great to hear from you mia.

[zako85]

The 2016 season showed us that anything is possible.

It didn't. Rosberg already proved to be a tough fighter in 2013 when Hamilton moved to Mercedes, and we all remember the 2014 season where admittedly very error-prone Rosberg was already fighting for the title like mad. By then it was clear that he is a real deal. Moreover, in 2016 Rosberg wins the first four races establishing a points lead which I believe he carried to the end of season. On the other hand, it's not clear what "Bottas 2.0" could possibly do to bounce from the points deficit that he has now.

[The Black Knight]

It didn't. Rosberg already proved to be a tough fighter in 2013 when Hamilton moved to Mercedes, and we all remember the 2014 season where admittedly very error-prone Rosberg was already fighting for the title like mad. By then it was clear that he is a real deal. Moreover, in 2016 Rosberg wins the first four races establishing a points lead which I believe he carried to the end of season. On the other hand, it's not clear what "Bottas 2.0" could possibly do to bounce from the points deficit that he has now.

Yes and no re the points deficit. Reliability cost Hamilton the 2016 title. Rosberg only won the first 4 races because of Hamilton’s reliability issues. Hamilton was leading the championship come the summer break. My post here sums up ultimately why Rosberg won the 2016 title:

https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?40274-2016-season-reminiscing

That aside, Rosberg was a vastly more formidable opponent than Bottas v1.0 or v2.0 any day of the week. He was a massively gifted driver.

[Nitrodaze]

It didn't. Rosberg already proved to be a tough fighter in 2013 when Hamilton moved to Mercedes, and we all remember the 2014 season where admittedly very error-prone Rosberg was already fighting for the title like mad. By then it was clear that he is a real deal. Moreover, in 2016 Rosberg wins the first four races establishing a points lead which I believe he carried to the end of season. On the other hand, it's not clear what "Bottas 2.0" could possibly do to bounce from the points deficit that he has now.

The engine failures at the beginning of the second half of the 2016 season presented Rosberg with a slender opportunity to win the title which he took with both hands. How the slender opportunity manifested was questionable and we would talk about it till the cows come home. Nonetheless, Rosberg had to seize the opportunity and hang on to it till Abu dhabi which he did and we respect him for that.

The massive imbalance in the DNFs and reliaility issues between Hamilton and Rosberg explains why Rosberg was able to take the title. On equal footing, the 2016 title would been Hamilton's. That said, that is motor sport and as it went, it was Rosbergs turn to be crowned driver world champion. I don't think anyone would argue about his worthiness of attaining his 2016 world title. He drove a fantastic race throughout the season. It was the most intense rivalry l can remember since Hill vs Schumacher or Prost vs Senna.

I will tell you this much, the race at Abu Dhabi 2016 would stick in my mind for years to come. How Hamilton frustrated Rosberg and the entire team as he backed Rosberg into Vettel's reach, the tension as everyone watched expectantly for something dramatic to happen. The agony of a very threatened Rosberg, the Mercedes team helpless on the pitwall as they desperately tried to persuade Hamilton to press on with the race. It was racing drama at its very finest.

We are going to watch this in a movie in the near future and l hope by God that they get this moment right.

[Mia 01]

Sarcdasm mode? Therés far to many totally mute!

[denkimi]

Can you imagine the sequence of events that would have to occur for Bottas to win the title? The internet would explode!
All that needs to happen is hamilton having some sort of injury, which would make him mis a few races.

Something like loeb in 2006.

[zako85]

All that needs to happen is hamilton having some sort of injury, which would make him mis a few races.

Something like loeb in 2006.

Even then it would be a big if. He would still struggle to win races against Verstappen or the Ferrari squad.

[Nitrodaze]

Even then it would be a big if. He would still struggle to win races against Verstappen or the Ferrari squad.

Quite true, Bottas is in a battle with Verstapenn and Leclerc for 2nd place in the championship at this time really. And in the last six races, both of these youngster have gained more points than Bottas and are closing fast. Redbull have more races where they can challenge Mercedes than Ferrari; on paper that is. Hence, there is the chance that Verstapenn is the main challenger for 2nd place and an outside chance for the driver's title.

Bottas and Mercedes have a fight on their hands for the rest of he season. With Hamilton's lead there is a chance that he can stretch it out to Abu dhabi at least.

[fezziwig]

I like this lap ! :o
Tutuapp (https://tutuapp.uno/) 9apps (https://9apps.ooo/) Showbox (https://showbox.kim/)

[Lord Flasheart]

lets just hope its on in 2020! Every time there's a big problem (mass immigration, earthquakes, euro collapse, banking crisis, ad nauseum) Italy seems to get the biggest kick in the nuts. We went to the italian grand prix (https://www.grandprixgrandtours.com/italian-grand-prix-road-trip/) last year and it was just epic. Lets just hope this latest wave of bad news for Italy doesn't jeopardise something that the locals get so much out of

[Jag_Warrior]

lets just hope its on in 2020! Every time there's a big problem (mass immigration, earthquakes, euro collapse, banking crisis, ad nauseum) Italy seems to get the biggest kick in the nuts. We went to the italian grand prix (https://www.grandprixgrandtours.com/italian-grand-prix-road-trip/) last year and it was just epic. Lets just hope this latest wave of bad news for Italy doesn't jeopardise something that the locals get so much out of


Thank goodness. A new poster who isn't just a spam robot. Welcome aboard, Lord Flasheart!

Want to tell us who your favorite driver or team is? How long have you been following F1?

[kerry3200]

Hearing the reasoning of the race director, he pointed out that Monza was a demonstration of how they intend to use the flag, which now introduces a threshold of contact as a precursor to points based penalty.