Silly Season 2020

[deephouse]

Man out there are so many drivers without a seat that all 3 teams could have two teams each.

[Tarmop]

Well, after this year, i am pretty sure, that there will be 4 to 5 cars from TGR and HMSG running atleast on some occasions.

[skarderud]

Well, after this year, i am pretty sure, that there will be 4 to 5 cars from TGR and HMSG running atleast on some occasions.Hyundai seems to bring 4-5 cars, atleast at european rallies.
Hopefully Toyota do the same.

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[NoName]

Cause Mads can easily bring budget.

If I have understand Mads correct. He dont want to drive for M-Sport because the history from the past.

[rallyfiend]

If I have understand Mads correct. He dont want to drive for M-Sport because the history from the past.

Allegedly he still owes M-Sport money.

And Prokop.

And i wonder if OneBet owes to the WRC.

His father is not so well regarded in the service park for paying bills.

Allegedly.

[tomhlord]

So, the Toyota announcement. I thought it was going to be today, but now is it later in the week? Can I stop refreshing motorsport.com for the day?

"Wednesday looks like a good day for me to do my next Thoughts from the Kitchen Table. Now, just need to find a suitable location!" https://twitter.com/voiceofrally/status/1198897182314811397

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Isnt Ogier, Evans & Rovanpera already a given ?

[tomhlord]

Isnt Ogier, Evans & Rovanpera already a given ?

Yeh, absolutely, I'm still looking forward to the press release.

[skarderud]

Allegedly he still owes M-Sport money.

And Prokop.

And i wonder if OneBet owes to the WRC.

His father is not so well regarded in the service park for paying bills.

Allegedly.Hard to belive.

Morten Østberg, Mads father, is a wellknow businessman, the only reason he/they would't pay something is because someone hasn't delivered what was in the deal.
Something wasn't right in the onebet/prokop/Østberg project, thats for sure.

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[mknight]

Isnt Ogier, Evans & Rovanpera already a given ?

Most like these will drive.

What is not given is if someone else will drive as well and what happens to Meeke and Latvala.

[denkimi]

Mads is a very likeable guy, consistent and somewhat fast, but he will never be winner material. 117 WRC starts in a WRC car, and only 1 win, that was not really a win. Why would Msport consider Mads over the obvious ones like Latvala, Lappi and Mikkelsen for instance?
Sordo has 155 wrc starts and only 2 wins, the second only 4 rally's ago.
Yet he is still chosen by hyundai over many other drivers.

[Oops!]

Sordo brings alot with him to the table when it comes to signing a contract.

[Oops!]

Hard to belive.

Morten Østberg, Mads father, is a wellknow businessman, the only reason he/they would't pay something is because someone hasn't delivered what was in the deal.
Something wasn't right in the onebet/prokop/Østberg project, thats for sure.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Not the first privateer team to have that complaint when it came to running a car built in Cumbria, but i suppose that's what happens when you have a monopoly in an industry...

[Got Mail]

Allegedly he still owes M-Sport money.

And Prokop.

And i wonder if OneBet owes to the WRC.

His father is not so well regarded in the service park for paying bills.

Allegedly.

I hear the same story.

A lot of people lost money with the OneBet fiasco.

I'm not sure his Dad is too popular with anyone in the WRC...

[TypeR]

Haha, funny :D and now the same Fiesta is owned by OT Racing and driven by his biggest previous sponsor's son :D

[EstWRC]

Sébastien Ogier
@SebOgier
Happy birthday my dear friend! ��
Today you enter life 4.0 like you told me, and I think that you (we) have been blessed for our 30’s! ��
Our life is about to take a new turn, but I’m sure it will still bring a lot of happiness & excitement! Very best wishes Julien!



https://twitter.com/SebOgier/status/1199244501086343168?s=20

[BobJones]

I'm hearing that potentially a contract between Meeke and Toyota was signed before the Ogier deal, which may mean that the team had to buy out two contracts (Citroen and Meeke's)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It just gets worse and worse ... :spin:

[er88]

I'm hearing that potentially a contract between Meeke and Toyota was signed before the Ogier deal, which may mean that the team had to buy out two contracts (Citroen and Meeke's)I heard myself a while back from one person on reddit who has been very reliable in the past, that Meeke had signed for another year in the lead up to Wales or just after it . Also said decisions had been made within Toyota/ with Makinen that Latvala was out for definite as early as the summer break. Still took it with a pinch of salt though, because none of the normal reliable news outlets or reporters seemed to have a clue what was really happening with the driver market.

However with the shock of Tanak actually leaving, it's clear the whole WRC has spiralled into madness so maybe it is actually true what you say and Tommi has reacted to the Hyundai super-team lineup. David Evans also said Ogier wanted Evans as team mate, or recommended him when asked, so with Kalle already signed up maybe there's been a brown envelope sent Meeke's way - so Ogier and Evans have seats alongside Kalle.

Knowing this silly season, no rumour is too wild or strange :D

[Allez Andruet]

I heard myself a while back from one person on reddit who has been very reliable in the past, that Meeke had signed for another year in the lead up to Wales or just after it . Also said decisions had been made within Toyota/ with Makinen that Latvala was out for definite as early as the summer break. Still took it with a pinch of salt though, because none of the normal reliable news outlets or reporters seemed to have a clue what was really happening with the driver market.

However with the shock of Tanak actually leaving, it's clear the whole WRC has spiralled into madness so maybe it is actually true what you say and Tommi has reacted to the Hyundai super-team lineup. David Evans also said Ogier wanted Evans as team mate, or recommended him when asked, so with Kalle already signed up maybe there's been a brown envelope sent Meeke's way - so Ogier and Evans have seats alongside Kalle.

Knowing this silly season, no rumour is too wild or strange :D

Or... just thinking out loud, but this does resemble an awful lot of the situation Mäkinen found himself in November 2016. He had signed Hänninen and Lappi (in that order) when the whole VW trio suddenly became available. He could have benched Hänninen and go with the line-up of Latvala and Lappi (with Suninen joining in the third car later in the season - that later being Portugal as we eventually saw with Lappi). But, Mäkinen made the somewhat unpopular call to stick with Hänninen and demoted Lappi to the third car. Okey, the situation with TGR is hugely different now than it was three years ago, but still... Could Tommi play the loyalty card once again and have Meeke driving the third Yaris alongside Ogier and Evans? With Kalle doing x amount of rallies (maybe them all) in a "junior team" with Katsuta?

However it turns out to be, Meeke - if he indeed had the paper signed - is now a wealthy man, even if technically unemployed.

[mknight]

In my eyes the most logical in that case would be to use Ogier, Evans and Meeke in factory nominated cars and put Rovanpera in 4th. Could be pretty good lineup as long as Meeke is told very clearly what his role is.

[the sniper]

I'm hearing that potentially a contract between Meeke and Toyota was signed before the Ogier deal, which may mean that the team had to buy out two contracts (Citroen and Meeke's)

If nothing else, it's be a nice retirement fund for Meeke.


In my eyes the most logical in that case would be to use Ogier, Evans and Meeke in factory nominated cars and put Rovanpera in 4th. Could be pretty good lineup as long as Meeke is told very clearly what his role is.

I really hope so. A two car secondary Toyota team would solve a lot of problems right now!

[SubaruNorway]

I'm hearing that potentially a contract between Meeke and Toyota was signed before the Ogier deal, which may mean that the team had to buy out two contracts (Citroen and Meeke's)

Ola Fløene is hanging out with Meeke in Andorra these days and I'm pretty sure there was an insta story saying "With new team mates" or something like that the other day, seems like something is going on.

[er88]

Even instead of paying Meeke off and having him sitting on the sidelines, a half season or a few events would maybe work better for Toyota than having Kalle as 3rd pts scorer in every round.

Kalle could still do full season, but move aside for Meeke in the main team on events like Monte/ Mexico/ argentina/ Wales + tarmac of Germany/ Japan etc + maybe one or two other events where road position is vital.

Toyota now have Evans who is a more safe option than Latvala was last year. So Meeke could come into events with very good position on the road (like Mikkelsen and Sordo who started 7th/ 8th/9th/10th on the road this year nearly all the time) and for sure be on pace to challenge for the wins. We've seen in the past in 2016 where Meeke won easily in Portugal and Finland with great road position when he did half season.

This season in Sweden plus gravel events, Meeke has started 4th on the road 5 times, and 5th on the road 3times. Yet still had good very pace in Mexico, Argentina, Portugal, Finland despite not always getting results.

Also just thinking from a Toyota POV, Meeke had great pace in Monte on his first event in the Yaris and who would you rather have drive there for team points - Kris or Kalle? Meeke could potentialluly challenge for a win/podium especially if you factor in the fact Tanak will be in a new car and so will Ogier.

Meeke being involved in a partial season or a full season would probably make Toyota stronger short term, but I guess the fact they have to run Katsuta in a 4th car for most of the season as well makes it difficult budget wise. 5 cars is a big ask.

[Rallyper]

Meeke to Ford. (Why all this haussing of Kris? Think he is the most unpredictical driver to hire...)

Latvala stays.

My guess...

[EstWRC]

i will eat dirt if Malcolm chooses Meeke over other free drivers:D

[doubled1978]

i will eat dirt if Malcolm chooses Meeke over other free drivers:D

I tend to agree, but if Meeke got paid out of his Toyota contract Malcolm could have him with Toyota effectively paying him! That might appeal...

[deephouse]

And here we are Meeke, Lappi ->> M-Sport. Which driver comes next, maybe one of the Hyundai guys, Neuville, Sordo, Loeb?

[wrc2017]

Why does everyone think Lappi will land the Ford seat,after the season he has had.. Ahead of Meeke, unless he is paying. Meeke doesn't pay, and has said that publically.

[reff92]

Why does everyone think Lappi will land the Ford seat,after the season he has had.. Ahead of Meeke, unless he is paying. Meeke doesn't pay, and has said that publically.

Because Lappi had some bad luck as well with the car couple of times.Lappi had i think 3 second places on the season? Meeke just crashed so much on very key points on rally. Ogier knows when he has one of kinda like meekes teammate - he is definetly loosing that next champ as well. Because like Markko sayd : Best Hyundai drivers was two Toyota ones.

[er88]

Because Lappi can be an investment for Msport. He drives for Msport, regains form and confidence, shows potential championship challenging potential etc etc..., Malcolm can then get a cut from his future earnings if Lappi moves on in a few years to the likes of Hyundai.

I'm sure if Lappi doesn't pay to drive, Malcolm will work something like that into his contract.

[wrc2017]

Because Lappi had some bad luck as well with the car couple of times.Lappi had i think 3 second places on the season? Meeke just crashed so much on very key points on rally. Ogier knows when he has one of kinda like meekes teammate - he is definetly loosing that next champ as well. Because like Markko sayd : Best Hyundai drivers was two Toyota ones.

Naaaa.. Ogier crushed Lappi. Lappi will pay to drive.

[deephouse]

Why does everyone think Lappi will land the Ford seat,after the season he has had.. Ahead of Meeke, unless he is paying. Meeke doesn't pay, and has said that publically.

I was joking haha Meeke's rumours now seems like Lappi's, so that's why I said that. If this will be true actually M-Sport could be even stronger next year than this yer with Evans and Suninen.

[TypeR]

I think Lappi + Fiesta would be a really good combo, because to me he has different approach to next season/his driving than Meeke.. Lappi have to show stable pace and few podium places vs Meeke goes full out and is sure that he could be WDC. Like this year.. although he was constantly losing to ,,top3'', he still drove with an attitude like he had a chance for WDC(mathematically)..

[AnttiL]

I tend to agree, but if Meeke got paid out of his Toyota contract Malcolm could have him with Toyota effectively paying him! That might appeal...

Kris could have his salary in the brown envelope, but someone still has to pay for running the car. I doubt the envelope is thick enough for the whole season.

Same with Lappi, I suppose Citroen has to pay him full salary from 2020, but it's not enough for a full M-Sport season. However, like said, Malcolm could be interested in investing a young driver. And then it's another thing what Even management thinks about this...

[tomhlord]

Kris could have his salary in the brown envelope, but someone still has to pay for running the car. I doubt the envelope is thick enough for the whole season

Good point, still probably net-cheaper.



Same with Lappi, I suppose Citroen has to pay him full salary from 2020, but it's not enough for a full M-Sport season. However, like said, Malcolm could be interested in investing a young driver. And then it's another thing what Even management thinks about this...

I think the deal could be M-Sport pays to run the car (potential podiums to prove the pace and skill of M-Sport organisation) but don't have to pay Lappi a penny. Mutually beneficial. I suppose.

[doubled1978]

Kris could have his salary in the brown envelope, but someone still has to pay for running the car. I doubt the envelope is thick enough for the whole season.

Same with Lappi, I suppose Citroen has to pay him full salary from 2020, but it's not enough for a full M-Sport season. However, like said, Malcolm could be interested in investing a young driver. And then it's another thing what Even management thinks about this...

Oh I know, MSport is very unlikely for Meeke.
More the point is MSport find themselves with a large pool to fish in, and while they won’t have a Ogier/Tanak/Neuville level guy, they could have a very strong line up if the want, or can afford it.

[meh]

Oh I know, MSport is very unlikely for Meeke.
More the point is MSport find themselves with a large pool to fish in, and while they won’t have a Ogier/Tanak/Neuville level guy, they could have a very strong line up if the want, or can afford it.

More like small pool with a lot of medium size fish inside

[deephouse]

What if they will pick all the left over drivers and rotate them to get best possible positions? That would be quite exciting when they couldix others head.

[maailmameister]

Andreas Mikkelsen updated profil picture in FB

[EstWRC]

VW helmet?

[TypeR]

Should be 2013 helmet

[bennizw]

I shot that picture for Mikkelsen and the company who built his website after VW pulled out of WRC, so it's an old picture.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Big money has been required for this switcharound ...

"According to the finely informed Helsingin Sanomat Finns, there is a clause in Ogier's contract with Citroën that prevented the Frenchman from competing for another team in 2020 if he did not want to stay at Citroën . It could 'retire' but could not switch teams.

Thus, Toyota will have to pay the unbundling of Sébastien Ogier, and according to Helsingin Sanomat this amount will be between 4 and 5 million euros. Plus the salary. Therefore operation Ogier will not go far from the 10 million euros. But Citroën, even receiving compensation, will also have strong amounts to pay Lappi and the WRC Promoter."

[AnttiL]

Again, the source is this one article in Helsingin Sanomat, which had many other proven errors, so I don't believe that without confirmation.

The journalist who wrote that article is also writing Tommi Mäkinen's autobiography, if that makes it more credible or not...

EDIT: Mäkinen says in YLE interview that they did not buy Ogier out

[Fredouye]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191127/47851a91e808a918c73494c864db6d87.jpg

[Rallyper]

So now, let´s wait for the MSport line up...

Any suggestions?

[Fredouye]

So now, let´s wait for the MSport line up...

Any suggestions?Suninen
Lappi
Greensmith

[TypeR]

I wonder if Tänak has already been in the factory and seen the car too? Like Ogier and Evans.. Hyundai only announced it thru socialmedia posts, but not a whole line-up in a factory or smth

[Frostmourne]

So, 2020 season will be only 3 constructors? Assuming M-Sport will chip in...

is WRC dying?? there should be something done to attract factories/teams to the championship

[Katvala]

So, 2020 season will be only 3 constructors? Assuming M-Sport will chip in...

is WRC dying?? there should be something done to attract factories/teams to the champioYou described the history of wrc now
There is always this worry, when manufacturers leave. There's been worse times, and the lack of seats isn't anything new. The question is always how to attract more manus but that isn't so straight forward

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[BobJones]

Elfyn Evans finally gets a decent salary in the WRC, a just reward. Hopefully, he can stop working in the Suzuki dealership and focus purely on rally at least for two seasons.

[BigWorm]

So, 1 year deal for Seb and 2 year deals for Elfyn and Kalle. Solid choices by Toyota to put trust in Elfyn and Kalle I think.

[Viking]

@JariMattiWRC

Following the announcement of @TGR_WRC I would like, first of all, to thank the team for the 3 great years and the success we shared together. I am currently working on competing in some #WRC events in 2020. Will keep you posted on that. Big thanks to our fans for your support.

[deephouse]

So now, let´s wait for the MSport line up...

Any suggestions?

I would go with all remaining ones. Latvala, Meeke sharing first car. Lappi, Mikkelsen second and Ostberg, Paddon and Suninen third.

That way all of them get better road position

[er88]

Worrying hearing that there's talk of only 1 seat left at Msport. There should be two alongside Suninen.

This is there chance to get a really good lineup for dirt cheap, so I'd be a bit pissed off if they decide against it to run Greensmith in 3rd car or just run two cars.

[Vahula]

So basically after Germany Ogier went to Mäkinen. Mäkinen could have said that he supports he's drivers but didn't and started to talk to Ogier. Ott wanted to sign the contract so he would not have that pressure on him when he was fighting for the title at the end of the season, but Tommi was ready to switch him if the title did not come. Ott looks for alternative solutions and found Adamo.

The rest is history

[Frostmourne]

M-Sport should have a decent car that can bring manu. champ. I think their best chance to win that at least Mikkelsen , Lappi and Suninen.

[ggg377]

I would go with all remaining ones. Latvala, Meeke sharing first car. Lappi, Mikkelsen second and Ostberg, Paddon and Suninen third.

That way all of them get better road position

Latvala and Meeke would be a massive waste for M-Sport. They didn't perform for Toyota at all this season even when it was gravely needed (Spain). Suninen will definitely do a full season, I believe that was also confirmed by Millener. In my opinion it will all boil down to which driver is the most capable of tuning and improving the Fiesta WRC the most. If Suninen was missing Evans's technical input when he was out with a back injury for 3 stages, can you imagine that for a whole season? The car would fall so far behind Hyundai and Toyota and we will end up with another Citroen situation. In my opinion, the open spot it will be contested by Lappi and Mikkelsen (unless Hyundai creates the rumored satellite team with Breen, Veiby and Mikkelsen). I would assume Mikkelsen has more experience with the technical side of WRC, but I might be wrong. Lappi definitely has more potential. If Mikkelsen is out and Wilson doesn't see potential in Lappi to improve the car, it will get very difficult, despite the seemingly large number of options.

[Rallyper]

Worrying hearing that there's talk of only 1 seat left at Msport. There should be two alongside Suninen.

This is there chance to get a really good lineup for dirt cheap, so I'd be a bit pissed off if they decide against it to run Greensmith in 3rd car or just run two cars.

It´s expensive running three cars. At least for MW.

[Rallyper]

In my opinion it will all boil down to which driver is the most capable of tuning and improving the Fiesta WRC the most. .

Meeke, probably a waste.

But the answer is Lappi and Latvala. Alternative Ostberg. The one bringing own money will be the driver.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Worrying hearing that there's talk of only 1 seat left at Msport. There should be two alongside Suninen.

This is there chance to get a really good lineup for dirt cheap, so I'd be a bit pissed off if they decide against it to run Greensmith in 3rd car or just run two cars.

They could act on a rally-by-rally basis with driver's coming in for their best or favourite events...

[mknight]

Nothing new in the Toyota announcement, so a disappointment.

As discussed multiple times I thought nl it bad both for Toyota and Rovanpera to put him in 3rd while expecting to win manu title.

In a way this lineup is a repeat of MSport 2018, just swapping Suninen with a guy that never drove a WRC car. That lineup had no chance in manu champ even against much weaker Hyundai/Toyota lineup than the one Hyundai is bringing to 2020.

[abcrally]

They could act on a rally-by-rally basis with driver's coming in for their best or favourite events...

Could be but I don't think so. Greensmith could be the 3rd driver as money is not the issue.
Latvala just said at Yle's Finnish interview that he is not in talks with M-Sport.

[AnttiL]

Rumors about Gryazin driving for M-Sport next year.

https://twitter.com/MiikaWuorela/status/1199687402228535298

[Rallyper]

Could be but I don't think so. Greensmith could be the 3rd driver as money is not the issue.
Latvala just said at Yle's Finnish interview that he is not in talks with M-Sport.



However, if or no talks, I guess he will not tell if there are talks.

[er88]

Rumors about Gryazin driving for M-Sport next year.

https://twitter.com/MiikaWuorela/status/1199687402228535298So Msport possibly taking money from Suninen, Greensmith and Gryazin?

While the likes of Mikkelsen, Paddon, Meeke, Latvala, maybe Lappi, Ostberg and Breen are without full wrc drives....

[doubled1978]

Nothing new in the Toyota announcement, so a disappointment.

As discussed multiple times I thought nl it bad both for Toyota and Rovanpera to put him in 3rd while expecting to win manu title.

In a way this lineup is a repeat of MSport 2018, just swapping Suninen with a guy that never drove a WRC car. That lineup had no chance in manu champ even against much weaker Hyundai/Toyota lineup than the one Hyundai is bringing to 2020.


I think it’s clear that Hyundai will be favourites for the manufacture title next year, and probably Toyota accept that and are looking to 2021 with Evans and Rovanpera. Big opportunity for both to lead the team after next year, particularly Evans...up to them to use it.
If they don’t there will be a prime seat up for grabs in 2021...

[mknight]

I think it’s clear that Hyundai will be favourites for the manufacture title next year, and probably Toyota accept that and are looking to 2021 with Evans and Rovanpera .

Giving up 2020 manu doesn't line up with Toyoda giving them a goal of winning both titles next year just 2 weeks ago.

[RS]

Big opportunity for both to lead the team after next year, particularly Evans...up to them to use it.
If they don’t there will be a prime seat up for grabs in 2021...

That one's got Neuville's name on it IMO.

[doubled1978]

That one's got Neuville's name on it IMO.
Yes indeed, but if he gets beaten by Tanak, will they want him?

[SubaruNorway]

So Msport possibly taking money from Suninen, Greensmith and Gryazin?

While the likes of Mikkelsen, Paddon, Meeke, Latvala, maybe Lappi, Ostberg and Breen are without full wrc drives....

Hyundai are trying to find partners to run a 2nd team with Mikkelsen

[doubled1978]

Giving up 2020 manu doesn't line up with Toyoda giving them a goal of winning both titles next year just 2 weeks ago.
Im sure that is the goal, but with that line up at Hyundai, chances would be slim whichever drivers they got alongside Ogier.
Besides, they can’t publically give up can they...

[deephouse]

Yes they will. He is still one of the big three, maybe next year the only one real challenger to Mr. Tanak. Except if Rovanpera develops so fast or Evans steps up to become regular podium (or winner) finisher.

[deephouse]

Hyundai are trying to find partners to run a 2nd team with Mikkelsen

Wow, someone was saying that in 2020 they will be back...

[doubled1978]

Hyundai are trying to find partners to run a 2nd team with Mikkelsen


Would be great if it’s possible. If it happens, and with Latvala/Katsuta doing some rallies we could end up with more WRC cars on some events than last year despite Citroen leaving...

[deephouse]

I'm just worried if Veiby will be picked over proven fast guys. He is nowhere, sorry but is true.

[Eli]

Wow, someone was saying that in 2020 they will be back...

I recall Abu-Dhabi Racing making such statement some 12 months ago...

[mknight]

Hyundai are trying to find partners to run a 2nd team with Mikkelsen

I don't see much pint in that neither for Mikkelsen nor for Hyundai.

Only reason for Mikkelsen would be that he won't ne sitting at home.

[SubaruNorway]

I know Meek like to ride bikes, maybe going Dakar style rallies instead?
Ola Has a lot of experience from both co-driving and bikes and there were some plans to run the old factory Peugeot 3008 but i haven't heard anything for a while

[SubaruNorway]

I don't see much pint in that neither for Mikkelsen nor for Hyundai.

Only reason for Mikkelsen would be that he won't ne sitting at home.

Wasn't there plans to allow private teams to have manufacturer points?
If so a 2nd Hyundai team could steal points off the other teams.

[ggg377]

As far as I know, Paddon will join the TCR New Zealand series next year. Latvala said he wants to do some stages with TGR and that M-Sport is out of the question for him. Breen and Mikkelsen are hoping for a Hyundai satellite team. I think it's safe to say either or both of them will get to do rallies Sweden, Finland and GB with Hyundai as Sordo and Loeb won't go there. The drivers who can only hope for a spot in M-Sport are Lappi, Ostberg and Meeke. Supposedly Ostberg has some bad blood there? I don't realistically see Meeke in M-Sport either. Very inconsistent, crashes a lot, last thing Wilson needs in the team. When Hyundai's plans fall through, Breen and Mikkelsen will join the fight. But yeah, at the end of the day we might see a lineup such as Suninen, Greensmith and Gryazin. Certainly many strange things happening this silly season, which no one could have predicted.

[er88]

Hyundai are trying to find partners to run a 2nd team with MikkelsenIt would suit Hyundai, they can technically keep hold of a drivers incase they need him in 2021 when Loeb/Sordo both might leave/retire.

But I don't see why Mikkelsen would want that. Adamo doesn't seem to trust him, and Adamo either trusts a driver or he doesn't. I don't see that changing now. Mikkelsen has been benched/dropped and now punted for good out the main team, he should really be doing everything in his power to get in at Msport. Even if it means paying a lot (if he can find some budget), or running just a half season there.

Then he can kick start his career again, and in 2021 there could be the possibility to go to Toyota to replace Ogier, continue with Msport, or go back to Hyundai (he really shouldn't).

He will never be more than a backup driver at Hyundai, Neuville is a clear level above him in that car now (they were always close in IRC days and then Mikkelsen moved slightly ahead, although that was at a dominant VW). If Mikkelsen stays at Hyundai in a 2nd team he will continue to be poor on tarmac with the car, probably will be left competing in a car that won't be developed like the main teams i20, won't test as much, and probably still be expected to slow down for Tanak/ Neuville etc when he does get ahead of them in rallies. The only advantage I see for Mikkelsen staying at Hyundai in some capacity, is it keeps him busy ( which admittedly could be a big factor in him accepting anything)

[BobJones]

So Msport possibly taking money from Suninen, Greensmith and Gryazin?

While the likes of Mikkelsen, Paddon, Meeke, Latvala, maybe Lappi, Ostberg and Breen are without full wrc drives....

My understanding – as it stands – is that Greensmith, Gryazin and Tidemand will contest WRC2 with M-Sport ('factory' WRC2 cars) with a number of events split across them in a third M-Sport WRC car. Would help with new R5 development. Suninen locked in as the lead WRC driver.

Mikkelsen is looking at a fourth sponsor-lead Hyundai (with Breen plugging that one or two rally Sordo/Loeb gap) and not M-Sport.

Latvala is trying to be loyal to Toyoda and find backers for some rounds in a Yaris with a view on 2021 when Ogier retires. Would be a private effort run out of a tent next to the main squad. Again, not looking at M-Sport, at least now.

Ostberg has burnt too many bridges at M-Sport, even though I believe he'd do a good job. His career in the top class hinged on Citroen and they pulled the plug on that. He may continue in a C3 R5 next season, however.

A shame for Camilli as he was being bred as Citroen's next WRC star. I believe there were conditions promised if he did well in Spain, which he duly delivered on. Sad times.

If Paddon can find the cash, M-Sport will provide a car. As they will to anyone with the cash. Not convinced it's possible this time after the unfortunate events of 2019, but fingers crossed for at least a go at Rally NZ.

This leaves Lappi and Meeke to fight it out for the second M-Sport seat. Smells like it's closer to Lappi, but perhaps only because when it's situations like this, Kris doesn't say anything to anyone or post online. At this point, nothing is signed.

[BobJones]

I know Meek like to ride bikes, maybe going Dakar style rallies instead?
Ola Has a lot of experience from both co-driving and bikes and there were some plans to run the old factory Peugeot 3008 but i haven't heard anything for a while

Huh, good spot.

[er88]

Apparently there's history between Malcolm and Meeke, so Meeke to Msport is always a no-go.

However I don't know whether that's just rumours that people have run with over the years, or whether it's genuine.

[BobJones]

I'm just worried if Veiby will be picked over proven fast guys. He is nowhere, sorry but is true.

WRC 2 for Hyundai, not in the main game.

[BobJones]

Apparently there's history between Malcolm and Meeke, so Meeke to Msport is always a no-go.

However I don't know whether that's just rumours that people have run with over the years, or whether it's genuine.

This softened in 2018 after the Citroen fiasco. They had negotiations for Kris to drive this season.

[steve.mandzij]

I wonder why Latvala has completely discarded M-Sport, if he could surely find backing for a program with them.

[er88]

This softened in 2018 after the Citroen fiasco. They had negotiations for Kris to drive this season.Thanks for the info. I remember Kris alluding that he had options from all the WRC teams for 2019 and had spoken to Msport, so I guess if there has been a line of communication open, there's a small chance for 2020. Lappi seems more like a typical Msport "investement" though due to his age and potential.

Although maybe Msport would want a fast experienced driver like Meeke to provide a speed reference to Suninen + all the other young drivers that will get drives. And Meeke has knowledge from Toyota and Citroen so could help advise Msport on future car development, because Msport have history of falling behind their rivals the longer a cars lifespan is.

[abcrally]

If we believe all the comments above then Lappi is the only option for M-Sport's 2nd car. 3rd car goes to whoever pays.

[AnttiL]

I wonder why Latvala has completely discarded M-Sport, if he could surely find backing for a program with them.

Probably because he hopes to keep up the ties with the company and maybe also do some other work at the team. I could see him driving the gravel notes car for Kalle.

[Duvel]

So we could have the folowing line up?

Toyota:
Ogier
Evans
Rovanperra
Katsuta in 4th car for some rally's

Hyundai:
Neuville
Tanak
Loeb
Sordo

M sport:
Suninen
Lappi
Greensmith

Private Toyota for Latvala on some rally's (like sead here semi official, close to Toyota team)
Hyundai sattelite team whit Mikkelsen and Breen

If this Hyundai 2 team would actualy come true, i could see Ostberg having a go there also.

Meeke has had his chanses i think, but i must agree i would mis him if he isnt there in 2020. For Paddon things dont look that good ether..

Whit al these free top drivers it seems like a perfect time to see some private teams.. (remember Stobart, Munchi's, Adapta, Redbull skoda,..)

[Rally Power]

Meeke has had his chanses i think, but i must agree i would mis him if he isnt there in 2020


Meeke chances aren’t looking good (no confirmation of an early sign with Toyota), but it’d be great having him sharing MSport 3rd car with Greensmith (hard to believe Gryazin will drive it next year).

[Tauri_J]

Rumors about Gryazin driving for M-Sport next year.

https://twitter.com/MiikaWuorela/status/1199687402228535298

Oh dear, I predict a lot of written-off chassis's

[RS]

Hyundai are trying to find partners to run a 2nd team with Mikkelsen

Well all three drivers in Toyota are Red Bull drivers but I hope the Red Bull money goes elsewhere, Toyota don’t need it.

[Sulland]

If this Hyundai 2 team would actualy come true, i could see Ostberg having a go there also.

Whit al these free top drivers it seems like a perfect time to see some private teams.. (remember Stobart, Munchi's, Adapta, Redbull skoda,..)

I could also see Mikkelsen and Østberg in the same team.

regarding private teams, the Wrc cars of today are very expensive to buy and maintain, so I am not too optimistic. Would love privat teams to happen, but all I Could see is Citroens, and not many would like to drive them.
maybe some Fords are possible, but I Am guessing few others.

[Rallyper]

"Private" Team couldn´t it also mean just putting money in and factory teams manage and maintain cars under own roof?

I mean a lot of logistics to save.
But downside would mean Factory teams have to expand facilties, transports etc...

[deephouse]

I don't believe that Hyundai are willing to put their cars available for buying or renting. They said it couple of years ago that they don't allow that. Except old gen cars.

Toyota I think is more open for that but only for a selected drivers not anyone.

M-Sport is free and are happy of anyone driving their cars, so easiest solution is their cars.

Citroen, nah. Why would anyone bother if the car is so bad that even the best drivers of the world left them. Only Ostberg could get them a go, but I think he will rather look elsewhere now.

[doubled1978]

I don't believe that Hyundai are willing to put their cars available for buying or renting. They said it couple of years ago that they don't allow that. Except old gen cars.

Toyota I think is more open for that but only for a selected drivers not anyone.

M-Sport is free and are happy of anyone driving their cars, so easiest solution is their cars.

Citroen, nah. Why would anyone bother if the car is so bad that even the best drivers of the world left them. Only Ostberg could get them a go, but I think he will rather look elsewhere now.

Depends if he can get the latest update of the Citroen, with the new aero and suspension etc..Lappi already said it was quite a big improvement. Might be worth it for 1 season if he can, after that lack of development will hinder.

[abcrally]

Depends if he can get the latest update of the Citroen, with the new aero and suspension etc..Lappi already said it was quite a big improvement. Might be worth it for 1 season if he can, after that lack of development will hinder.

Private team can't make new homologations to C3. Citroen Racing should help with updates though if some team would like to run the cars. But I'd say it is very unlikely to happen.

[SubaruNorway]

I could also see Mikkelsen and Østberg in the same team.

regarding private teams, the Wrc cars of today are very expensive to buy and maintain, so I am not too optimistic. Would love privat teams to happen, but all I Could see is Citroens, and not many would like to drive them.
maybe some Fords are possible, but I Am guessing few others.

If their dad's would be involved it won't happen, they did not get along back in the days!
It's talk of a satellite team, not private

[Grundo Farb]

I would be very very surprised if someone didn't look at specialists for some of the rallies given how three are new to the calendar this year after a time away, Japan, Safari and New Zealand.

Would be a huge blunder I believe if someone didn't pick up Paddon for New Zealand for example.

[deephouse]

I would be very very surprised if someone didn't look at specialists for some of the rallies given how three are new to the calendar this year after a time away, Japan, Safari and New Zealand.

Would be a huge blunder I believe if someone didn't pick up Paddon for New Zealand for example.

Tommi Makinen could be answer for Safari. For Japan they don't need any specialist as while Loeb will attend it. Ogier will be there anyway.

[pantealex]

Tommi Makinen could be answer for Safari. For Japan they don't need any specialist as while Loeb will attend it. Ogier will be there anyway.

Tommi already hired Juha Kankkunen.

and yes he actually did. Juha is helping because he knows something about African events.

[spyros]

I can see Neuville at Toyota next year

[deephouse]

Me too I have a feeling that this will be the case. Except if Ogier will re-sign. Then Neuville is screwed.

[Allez Andruet]

Based on recent events I'm not sure if it means anything, but Neuville has a contract with Hyundai for 2021 as well.

[deephouse]

Ogier had it too for 2020 and broke it. Meeke, Paddon, Mikkelsen, Sordo had it and what happened. I mean they will not probably break it, he will himself (we all know how Neuville like is).

[wrc2017]

Based on recent events I'm not sure if it means anything, but Neuville has a contract with Hyundai for 2021 as well.
If Neville gets beaten by Tanak, why would Toyota want him?

[Andre Oliveira]

Because should be the best of the others.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wow, so after all crazy the Silly Season for 2020 people are already discussing 2021 !! :eek:

[deephouse]

M-Sport will run 2 full cars next year. One is already reserved for Suninen. The other is expected to be one of 8 guys who are without seat right now. Greensmith can bring budget, similar story with Breen & Mikkelsen (they don't have a future at Hyundai anymore). Leaving Citroen surprised Lappi and Ostberg. Lappi could be there because Citroen will pay for his driving for 2020. Paddon could get some drives in third car, they will be in contact with him. Greensmith is mentiomed for third car also and other drivers, so nothing is decided yet.

Latvala and Meeke doesn't have a chance for that team. They want youngsters and bring them to the top.

Nothing new but I think that second car will go to Greensmith or most likely to Lappi. Third will be shared for whoever pays. Paddon probably in NZ Rally with them.

[SubaruNorway]

It's been clear for a while that Latvala is doing 2-5 events for Toyota, Østberg has also been in talks with them trying to do a few events.
And according to Mikkelsen Hyundai is the only option in a satellite team

[stefanvv]

Wow, so after all crazy the Silly Season for 2020 people are already discussing 2021 !! :eek:

All set for 2020.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/kuka-vie-viimeiset-wrc-pestit-fordilta-m-sportin-pomolta-suomalaisittain-mukava-vihjaus/

This article suggests Greensmith or other pay drivers won't take the second M-Sport seat, but could occupy the third car. They're going for a second young driver to support towards a world title. The article throws a guess that this could be beneficial for Lappi, especially with his Citroen salary.

[wrc2017]

https://www.rallit.fi/kuka-vie-viimeiset-wrc-pestit-fordilta-m-sportin-pomolta-suomalaisittain-mukava-vihjaus/

This article suggests Greensmith or other pay drivers won't take the second M-Sport seat, but could occupy the third car. They're going for a second young driver to support towards a world title. The article throws a guess that this could be beneficial for Lappi, especially with his Citroen salary.
Serious question.. Would you work for your current employer for nothing, if you got a bonus from your previous employer?

[krissucool]

Serious question.. Would you work for your current employer for nothing, if you got a bonus from your previous employer?

If that is the only way to stay in your dream job to continue following your dreams.

Yes.

[deephouse]

Better to drive than sit and not be seen. Every year they are looking for current drivers and maybe one or two from lower category. Those who lost their drives at the end are soon forgotten.

[doubled1978]

[QUOTE=wrc2017;1236986]Serious question.. Would you work for your current employer for nothing, if you got a bonus from your previous employer?[/QUOTE

In a normal life I wouldn’t would work free unless there were some very odd circumstances attached to it. But as a sportsman/woman you have a limited career, so sometimes you might have to keep yourself in the game, with a view to future employment. If it was me I would make sure that the conditions were very clear that if I met agreed performance targets during the unpaid year, that I would be retained for the following year, and paid at an agreed upon level. Unfortunately for Lappi MSport aren’t short of options so his bargaining position isn’t the strongest to make many demands.
Probably his biggest asset is his future earning potential, which we know Wilson uses as a way to secure drives.

[RS]

Lappi has to be a shoe-in for MSport surely? They need a driver capable of leading the team and Suninen is not yet, and maybe never will be, capable of that.

Latvala has said no, Meeke seems unlikely, Mikkelssen looks like he staying involved with Hyundai and I personally don't quite consider the likes of Breen, Paddon or Ostberg to have quite the immediate potential of Lappi.

[doubled1978]

Lappi has to be a shoe-in for MSport surely? They need a driver capable of leading the team and Suninen is not yet, and maybe never will be, capable of that.

Latvala has said no, Meeke seems unlikely, Mikkelssen looks like he staying involved with Hyundai and I personally don't quite consider the likes of Breen, Paddon or Ostberg to have quite the immediate potential of Lappi.

I agree, I would pick Lappi. He has a couple of seasons under his belt, and experience of 2 other cars. He is also fast, just needs to be a bit more consistent, which hopefully comes with more experience.

[Tarmop]

I believe that Wilson already hinted, that they will continue with developing fast youngsters. Lappi fits the description the best...

[deephouse]

I agree, I would pick Lappi. He has a couple of seasons under his belt, and experience of 2 other cars. He is also fast, just needs to be a bit more consistent, which hopefully comes with more experience.

Haha, he have experience from 2 different cars... He knows what to do witth car and he knows what not to do with car. Fiesta could be a rocket next year

[wrc2017]

I believe that Wilson already hinted, that they will continue with developing fast youngsters. Lappi fits the description the best...

Does he?

[Allez Andruet]

Does he?

Atleast he's fast (slow drivers don't win rallies, do they?) and relatively young.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lappi isnt quite a 'youngster to be developed' - he has done that in the last two seasons.

As its taking a while to announce him at M-Sport the deal could be quite tricky... who needs who more ?

[AnttiL]

Lappi isnt quite a 'youngster to be developed' - he has done that in the last two seasons.

There's a fine line between "not ready for WRC" and "already developed". Out of the previous WRC drivers without a seat, Lappi is the youngest/least-experienced.

In the other topic you suggested Paddon...

[dck1989]

only 16 days until monte entries close

[Duvel]

only 16 days until monte entries close

My guess is on Lappi for the M sport seat.
Sattelite Hyundai won't happen I guess.

Regarding Monte, could there be Alpine's at the start?

[pantealex]

Monte is special
Sweden is special
Mexico is expensive
...

Some drivers could start their season way later.
Think this year (Breen, Paddon)

[deephouse]

Sattelite Hyundai won't happen I guess.

Adamo was saying that he is searching for extra budget to support WRC2 two car entries and I guess if "satelite team" really happens I think that we can forget about official Hyundai WRC2 season. Maybe few outing just to showcase the new car.. But even that comes a later in season.. so no point actually. I would rather see Hyundai competing there too than having one extra team.

[AnttiL]

https://www.facebook.com/100000701810747/posts/2979474388752592/

Østberg driving a Citroen next year, but whether it's WRC or R5 remains unknown. Backing by Citroen Norway.

[EstWRC]

this is just my guess but im pretty sure its WRC...i just dont see the point to do another frustrating year with an R5.

[AnttiL]

this is just my guess but im pretty sure its WRC...i just dont see the point to do another frustrating year with an R5.

In either case the car won't be developed during the year. We will see "Moany Mads".

[BobJones]

https://www.facebook.com/100000701810747/posts/2979474388752592/

Østberg driving a Citroen next year, but whether it's WRC or R5 remains unknown. Backing by Citroen Norway.

Huh, how about that...

[AnttiL]

Katsuta confirmed to all European rounds and Japan in Yaris WRC.

[Duvel]

this is just my guess but im pretty sure its WRC...i just dont see the point to do another frustrating year with an R5.


Hope you are right. If he would start the whole season whit WRC, he would even be pretty close in the championship i think (place 5-6).

[EstWRC]

Hope you are right. If he would start the whole season whit WRC, he would even be pretty close in the championship i think (place 5-6).

Also the fact that Mads is the only one besides Lappi who has tested the car with the new aero, he knows the car very well.

I would be very disappointed if its another year with an R5.

[Norm75]

Also the fact that Mads is the only one besides Lappi who has tested the car with the new aero, he knows the car very well.

I would be very disappointed if its another year with an R5.
Agree would be nice to see Mads in the Citroen with updated aero. I've said all along the C3 looked as aerodynamic as a bus, and the upgrade goes a long way to address that. As the saying goes if it looks right it is right, it would be interesting to see how it faired in competition.

[racerx1979]

Sucks for Latvala and Meeke. Not sure if Katsuta has "it". Hopefully he improves as time goes on. He has a good team and coach.

[EstWRC]

It seems we will hear maybe next week from m-sport?

https://twitter.com/richmillener/status/1205657257003884545

[RS]

Did M-Sport use all their test days for this year already? Seems they haven’t done any preparation for Monte yet.

[mknight]

According to Luis they have 15 left:

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2019/11/14/2019-balance-of-wrc-aero-modifications-test-days-and-jokers/

Off course he can be a few days off here or there but very likely they have some left.

Part of the reason is that they very often had 2 drivers and Tidemand and Greensmiths days didn't count.

Guess it's about waiting for the driver decisions,cause running a separate test for just Suninen would cost a lot extra.

[BobJones]

A shame to see zero engine upgrades for M-Sport.

[doubled1978]

Also the fact that Mads is the only one besides Lappi who has tested the car with the new aero, he knows the car very well.

I would be very disappointed if its another year with an R5.

To be honest, if someone is going to have a go with a private entry, this is probably the best situation you could do it with.
He won’t be competing against the factory so there is no conflict of interest in terms of giving him the right information etc. The car has just received probably its biggest and most significant update since its inception, which according to Lappi is very good.
If he has a good enough budget to run it right, could be good...

[mknight]

To actually "receive" the upgrade it has to be homologated. Which it isn't atm
https://www.fia.com/homologations
(no update since 2/8 https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/toutesvoitures_02.08.2019.pdf)

To homologate someone has to pay some money and I seem to recall that the team also has to be entered in WRC?

It was these kinds of homologation issues that stopped 2017 Polo from ever starting an event.

[doubled1978]

Isn’t there an interview with Budar where he says the updates are homologated? Maybe as the car hasn’t competed since, the update hasn’t been added?
Equally, I doubt that the cost of an update is anything like the figures talked about for homologating the whole car as was the case with VW...

[Rallyper]

To actually "receive" the upgrade it has to be homologated. Which it isn't atm
https://www.fia.com/homologations
(no update since 2/8 https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/toutesvoitures_02.08.2019.pdf)

To homologate someone has to pay some money and I seem to recall that the team also has to be entered in WRC?

It was these kinds of homologation issues that stopped 2017 Polo from ever starting an event.

So FIA working against themselves...? :( :(

[Rally Power]

So FIA working against themselves...? :( :(

It’s fair to say that in 2017 the FIA asked other manus to allow an exception for the Polo homologation but they’ve opposed to it, arguing the rules demanded WRC registered manus (the only ones able to homologate cars and parts) to enter 2 cars for a full season (at the time only Mikkelsen was planning to run the Polo in some events) https://www.vwvortex.com/motorsport-news/fia-puts-final-nail-polo-wrcs-coffin/

Probably the same can happen if Citroen asks to homologate 2020 jokers, although anyone is free to run a 2019 spec C3.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Although I'd love to see them run the new aero, Ostberg could still do ok in just a '19-spec C3 WRC.

Its most likely he would enter his preferred gravel events and the C3 was already quite good on this surface.

But if I was a gambling man I'd bet he drives the C3 R5 again. I dont think Citroen Norge will pay enough for him to run the WRCar.

[denkimi]

Although I'd love to see them run the new aero, Ostberg could still do ok in just a '19-spec C3 WRC.

Its most likely he would enter his preferred gravel events and the C3 was already quite good on this surface.

But if I was a gambling man I'd bet he drives the C3 R5 again. I dont think Citroen Norge will pay enough for him to run the WRCar.
It depends on how much citroen charges him for the wrc car. If he has to pay the real costs i doubt we'll see him in it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fingers-crossed they let him just pay the running costs. It would be great publicity for Citroen to allow this and enable another driver and car in the WRC...

[pantealex]

To actually "receive" the upgrade it has to be homologated. Which it isn't atm
https://www.fia.com/homologations
(no update since 2/8 https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/toutesvoitures_02.08.2019.pdf)

To homologate someone has to pay some money and I seem to recall that the team also has to be entered in WRC?

It was these kinds of homologation issues that stopped 2017 Polo from ever starting an event.

Has there been any homologation day since Citroen made that "EVO" ?
Has Citroen any aerodynamics jokers left for 2019 ?

I remember that it was originally meant to homologate 1.1.2020

[deephouse]

Is it possible that he will ''just test'' aero from WRC car for R5 spec C3 to later adapt to that car?

[Allez Andruet]

Re: Østberg & Citroen Norway

I can't say for sure how independent Citroen Norway is when it comes to spending their brand marketing money, but it's quite likely that they need to get an approval from the French office when entering such a major deal (as supporting Østberg would be). And IF it's like that, I'd be surprised if they can get the sign-off for any project involving the World Rally Car as it's something the factory is no longer supporting itself. R5 is a different story altogether, as it's something the brand is still offering for customers, but I would bet the WRC is a no-go. I hope I'm wrong (and lately I've been very good at being wrong).

[SubaruNorway]

Citroën are not selling a lot of cars in Norway, around 150 a month against VW/Toyota at 12-1300 on top and from what i heard they didn't sponsor Petter with a lot back in the days so i doubt they could pay for a whole program without Adapta/Østberg like it was written on twitter by some french test organizer the other day

[Rallyper]

Citroën are not selling a lot of cars in Norway, around 150 a month against VW/Toyota at 12-1300 on top and from what i heard they didn't sponsor Petter with a lot back in the days so i doubt they could pay for a whole program without Adapta/Østberg like it was written on twitter by some french test organizer the other day

What if they sell +100 cars a month involving Mads in the marketing in Norway? How much numbers will it increase including aftermarket sales etc.

One have to consider the outcome, not the current stats...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Arent the big sales in Norway in fully electric cars now though ?

Citroen doesnt have them in it's range, only hybrids from next year. I dont see Ostberg making the difference if the cars just arent what Norwegians want...

[Allez Andruet]

What if they sell +100 cars a month involving Mads in the marketing in Norway? How much numbers will it increase including aftermarket sales etc.

One have to consider the outcome, not the current stats...

If the sales would rocket by +66% I think the Östberg card had been played a long time ago. I guess the WRC in a market like Norway is mostly seen as a tool for brand awareness, not as a quick fix for relatively low sales figures.

[tommeke_B]

Well, honestly, I think marketing can't do miracles when the product itself is shit.

[janvanvurpa]

Well, honestly, I think marketing can't do miracles when the product itself is shit.


Well for more than 15 years 60-62% of all cars in US rally have been various barely warmed up Subies of one sort or another..

I think that's proof that marketing can do miracles when the product is obviously shit.

[Sulland]

Arent the big sales in Norway in fully electric cars now though ?

Citroen doesnt have them in it's range, only hybrids from next year. I dont see Ostberg making the difference if the cars just arent what Norwegians want...

But DS has the e208 twin, DS3 Crossback, and still most do not separate Citroen and DS as different brands!

Same same, if a Norwegian importer want to use rally as a way to sell more cars, it is a good thing. Not many car importer companies in scandinavia use motorsport in their branding until now. Citroen used Petter some years ago, and sales went up many %, so lets see if Mads can do the same.

Lets hope more follows, maybe Hyundai?

[Mirek]

Is it possible that he will ''just test'' aero from WRC car for R5 spec C3 to later adapt to that car?

Why when it's not allowed on R5?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

TBH if Citroen didnt think it was worth carrying on without one of the top 3 WRC drivers, it's hard to see privateer Ostberg doing well enough to to promote them in one market.

Hyundai & Toyota should have most of the top 5 places tied up on every rally and then there's likely an M-Sport. The competition is brutal and ad money can be better spent elsewhere.

[Rallyper]

TBH if Citroen didnt think it was worth carrying on without one of the top 3 WRC drivers, it's hard to see privateer Ostberg doing well enough to to promote them in one market.



However I was talking marketing in Norway. Not worldwide.

[deephouse]

TBH if Citroen didnt think it was worth carrying on without one of the top 3 WRC drivers, it's hard to see privateer Ostberg doing well enough to to promote them in one market.

Hyundai & Toyota should have most of the top 5 places tied up on every rally and then there's likely an M-Sport. The competition is brutal and ad money can be better spent elsewhere.

You should consider that the half of the good drivers will probably not be at the start of the most of the rallies across the next season. Latvala, Meeke, Paddon, Breen, Mikkelsen (except if those last ones really end up in satellite team). So it's pretty sure that Ostberg could finish on average 5th or 6th places everywhere - on Turkey maybe even higher.

[Andre Oliveira]

"The history with Citroën ends -officialy- tomorrow..."

https://scontent.fopo3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/81090018_3140849632611109_7631034962224873472_o.jp g?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ohc=SnD0gsoiG2IAQmGambNLnZgheTUaVj6bmknjkLhZU-_Ap3s6s34V_gqrw&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo3-1.fna&oh=0434dc911b142cd565a12e753ae81aa9&oe=5EA832A1

[Allez Andruet]

"The history with Citroën ends -officialy- tomorrow..."

Tomorrow, "as the year ends". The final sentence promises "news in a couple of days".

[EstWRC]

old thread brought up by a spam-bot but why not for 2022

2022 prediciton from me

Toyota

#69 Rovanperä Kalle - Halttunen Jonne
#33 Evans Elfyn - Martin Scott
#4 Lappi Esapekka - Ferm Janne/ #17 Ogier Sébastien - Ingrassia Julien
#18 Katsuta Takamoto - Barritt Daniel

Hyundai

#8 Tänak Ott - Järveoja Martin
#11 Neuville Thierry - Wydaeghe Martijn
#6 Dani Sordo/ #2 Solberg Oliver - Johnston Aaron

M-sport

#42 Breen Craig - Nagle Paul
#16 Fourmaux Adrien - Jamoul Renaud
#44 Greensmith Gus - Patterson Chris

[AnttiL]

old thread brought up by a spam-bot but why not for 2022

2022 prediciton from me

#44 Greensmith Gus - Edmondson Elliott

So you predict Edmondson returns or just put it accidentally?

I think that's a quite good call, but I wouldn't rule out Suninen quite yet. Maybe it will be another year split between WRC2 and the main class.

[EstWRC]

im not sure about any of the co-drivers based on this season

[Eli]

old thread brought up by a spam-bot but why not for 2022

2022 prediciton from me

Toyota

#69 Rovanperä Kalle - Halttunen Jonne
#33 Evans Elfyn - Martin Scott
#4 Lappi Esapekka - Ferm Janne/ #17 Ogier Sébastien - Ingrassia Julien
#18 Katsuta Takamoto - Barritt Daniel

Hyundai

#8 Tänak Ott - Järveoja Martin
#11 Neuville Thierry - Wydaeghe Martijn
#6 Dani Sordo/ #2 Solberg Oliver - Johnston Aaron

M-sport

#42 Breen Craig - Nagle Paul
#16 Fourmaux Adrien - Jamoul Renaud
#44 Greensmith Gus - Patterson Chris

I know it's been mentioned here a few times but I really would like them to stop using those numbers as if they're in Formula 1.

[mknight]

Create new thread, doesn't take any time.

Sordo+Solberg for Hyundai 3rd seems like really weak lineup at this very moment. Sordo has not been himself since the codriver change is now changing again. Solberg isn't ready to reliably score any points.

[denkimi]

I don't think adamo, unlike tommi, is stupid enough to put a new kid in like solberg in the car. He is there to get results, not money.

But as a 4th car would be a real possibility.

[Danny0405]

The third car is quite a difficult question for Hyundai if Breen has already signed with M-Sport. Maybe a full-Time offer to Breen from Hyundai can change the dynamic but personnally, I wouldn’t offer a full-Time drive to Breen in Hyundai’s situation.
Lappi is the most interesting option in my opinion but it seems to be already set with Toyota. It’s a pity that his relations are difficult with M-Sport because a Lappi-Breen-Fourmaux line-up would have been interesting.

After that, a lot of B/C-rank drivers are available but every of them have a lot of uncertainties:
- Solberg, some potential but seems less developed than Kalle in 2019 (even if Rovanpera last R5 season was not that good)
- Sordo, difficult season so far and a risk of dropping in his performance at his age. But he has a lot of experience and he is good on tarmac and some type of Gravel events which is interesting in a shared 3rd car.
- Suninen, awful season so far; maybe some potential but huge risk.
- Mikkelsen: he knows the team (an asset in my opinion because the adaptation to the Hyundai cars does not seem that simple)
- Østberg: reliable and close to Mikkelsen in R5 and a good emergency stint with Citroën in 2018 but 3 seasons out of Rally1.
- Paddon: out of the game for too long now (high risk of an Atkinson-like comeback)
- Loeb: he is interested in doing one or 2 events next year but on what he showed in 2019 and 2020, I didn’t find him better than Mikkelsen or Sordo (I talk about the 45-year old Loeb for sure)
- Loubet: not reliable and slow.
- Huttunen: some potential but still, difficult to give him a car for a director when so much experienced drivers are available.

None of them really deserves a full-time seat so a shared third car is the best strategy for Hyundai even if I’m not a fan of that: Sordo is a no-brainer considering his profile and I would say Solberg or Mikkelsen for the other part of the calendar.

Mikkelsen is interested by M-Sport but I don’t see the interest for M-Sport to have both Breen and Mikkelsen on a full-time basis (except if one of them pay for it but I have not understood that they want to pay for a full season). IMO, they should focus on the quality of the car even if it means to have Greensmith or Gryazin (or even worse) in the third car.