Silly Season 2020

[Duvel]

So, my guess

Hyundai, Tanak, Neuville, Loeb and Sordo partial program. Breen R5 program and some wrc outings
Citroën stay for 2020 whit Ogier and Lappi, few WRC drives for Mads
Toyota Rovanperra, Evans, but than,.. Latvalla or Meeke, I think it will be Jari. Taka doing half wrc program.
At M-sport I think they will be happy to welcome Mikkelsen, Suninen wil have to be glad if he can stay there. Greensmith in 3th car for most rally's Paddon Meeke and Pontus whit some private funded drives.

What I hope is for nasser AL athiay to come back for some rally's, teaming up whit Meeke in Toyota's

It's just thinking out loud

[mknight]

So, my guess

Hyundai, Tanak, Neuville, Loeb and Sordo partial program. Breen R5 program and some wrc outings
Citroën stay for 2020 whit Ogier and Lappi, few WRC drives for Mads
Toyota Rovanperra, Evans, but than,.. Latvalla or Meeke, I think it will be Jari. Taka doing half wrc program.
At M-sport I think they will be happy to welcome Mikkelsen, Suninen wil have to be glad if he can stay there. Greensmith in 3th car for most rally's Paddon Meeke and Pontus whit some private funded drives.

What I hope is for nasser AL athiay to come back for some rally's, teaming up whit Meeke in Toyota's

It's just thinking out loud

I agree with most as things look now.

Only at Toyota I think they might prefer Meeke over Latvala and there is also the question if Rovanpera will be just 4th car (even with full season) and they try to get Mikkelsen or keep the other one of Meeke/Latvala as well.

Then again the "most likely" outcomes lately don't happen so often. Ex. Tanak to Hyundai or Loeb to Hyundai, Meeke to Toyota was also quite unexpected last year as was Lappi to Citroen.

[dimviii]

Aichi recce? Central Rally Aichi (8 - 10 November)

maybe,this rally has the same stages as rally Japan next year

[racerx1979]

At the moment the Latvala private issues with his crazy ex is not helping him, but Meeke gave him a few bonus points by not finishing in Spain.

Toyota will wait until after Aus.

My guess is Latvala, Meeke and Evans with partial drives for Kalle and Katsuta or Latvala, Evans and Kalle with partial drives for Katsuta and Meeke.

[tigerlily]

maybe,this rally has the same stages as rally Japan next year

Yes. I've heard that Evans, Suninen and Lappi do only recce.
Katsuta participates in this rally with Yaris WRC.
Someone from Hyundai was supposed to participate in this rally with i20 WRC but it was cancelled.

[pantealex]

Yes. I've heard that Evans, Suninen and Lappi do only recce.
Katsuta participates in this rally with Yaris WRC.
Someone from Hyundai was supposed to participate in this rally with i20 WRC but it was cancelled.

Kalle is also doing recce only + probably few other drivers doing same.

[STI69]

@EstWRC
can we find online the whole interview to translate via google?

http://www.rallifoorum.ee/foorum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5180&start=4800#p328550

[EstWRC]

http://www.rallifoorum.ee/foorum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5180&start=4800#p328550

you gave him the wrong one. He means the one in Õhtuleht yesterday with Adamo.

[STI69]

you gave him the wrong one. He means the one in Õhtuleht yesterday with Adamo.

https://pastebin.com/xeNGQnAW

[surdna]

http://www.rallifoorum.ee/foorum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5180&start=4800#p328550

this is the Adamo interview https://pastebin.com/xeNGQnAW

[T16]

Of course its business... M-Sport isnt a charity. But its taken a long time for Evans (and Tanak incidentally) to break into the top level and MW could easily have given up on him and switched to another prospect. His belief in him has been huge and I dont see him ever getting this anywhere else.

Eddie, it’s cool that you’re a true M-Sport fan through and through, but you need to maybe open your mind a little more with regard to how that team has functioned over the last few years.
Wilson has had Evans there because he was a balance between getting a reasonable job done and costing next to nothing. He’s now established himself and the chips have fallen in his favour, so he’s got a chance to actually go and be a proper works driver.
Shame it leaves them up shit creek as we stand because I’m not sure at all that Suninen has the minerals to step up into his place. Let’s hope Jari can bring some money, relax and drive the shit out of the fiesta, it all actually might work out well for all involved.

[rallyfiend]

Eddie, it’s cool that you’re a true M-Sport fan through and through, but you need to maybe open your mind a little more with regard to how that team has functioned over the last few years.
Wilson has had Evans there because he was a balance between getting a reasonable job done and costing next to nothing. He’s now established himself and the chips have fallen in his favour, so he’s got a chance to actually go and be a proper works driver.
Shame it leaves them up shit creek as we stand because I’m not sure at all that Suninen has the minerals to step up into his place. Let’s hope Jari can bring some money, relax and drive the shit out of the fiesta, it all actually might work out well for all involved.

Jari has been earning a lot of money for a lot of years, why would he all of a sudden decide to PAY for a drive?

[EstWRC]

because he doesnt have any other options?

[denkimi]

He can always retire. He has had his years, he had his chances. He isn't likely going to improve.

[T16]

He can always retire. He has had his years, he had his chances. He isn't likely going to improve.


That doesn't mean he has lost self-belief though does it? If he loves rallying and he can have a shot in the Fiesta and get a sponsor to pay for it AND probably take a decent enough salary himself, why on earth would he quit?

[KiwiWRCfan]

Jari has been earning a lot of money for a lot of years, why would he all of a sudden decide to PAY for a drive?

refer Petter Solberg 2009, 2010 & 2011 seasons

[denkimi]

That doesn't mean he has lost self-belief though does it? If he loves rallying and he can have a shot in the Fiesta and get a sponsor to pay for it AND probably take a decent enough salary himself, why on earth would he quit?
If, if, if and if.

Why would he pay for a drive? He is not an unknown youngster anymore who needs to prove himself.
He has shown for many years what he can do. But if in the end still nobody want to hire him, there's not much to gain by desperately clinging on.

[T16]

If, if, if and if.

Why would he pay for a drive? He is not an unknown youngster anymore who needs to prove himself.
He has shown for many years what he can do. But if in the end still nobody want to hire him, there's not much to gain by desperately clinging on.

IF he goes to M-sport and took a sponsor, he wouldn't be paying, the sponsor would. Why not? He still gets to do the sport he loves. He may have missed a few chances over the years, but he most certainly is not clinging on.

[the sniper]

If, if, if and if.

Why would he pay for a drive? He is not an unknown youngster anymore who needs to prove himself.
He has shown for many years what he can do. But if in the end still nobody want to hire him, there's not much to gain by desperately clinging on.

You seem to be fixated on the idea that he'd be paying out of his own bank account... If he can get sponsors to bring some money, why would he not keep going? The guy loves what he does, he loves the sport. When I was at Oulton Park for Rally GB, JML walked across the paddock looking backwards, as behind him there was a big screen showing old RAC Rally footage! What's he going to do instead? Unfortunately, as we are aware, unlike a lot of guys retiring we know he won't be coming out with the 'more time with family and kids' line for now. Why not try and get another year in these cars? If anyone can get sponsorship, surely it has to be JML, being such a popular figure. Anyway, he'd likely be replacing Evans, who was likely paying (and getting paid) nothing for the drive.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Eddie, it’s cool that you’re a true M-Sport fan through and through, but you need to maybe open your mind a little more with regard to how that team has functioned over the last few years.
Wilson has had Evans there because he was a balance between getting a reasonable job done and costing next to nothing. He’s now established himself and the chips have fallen in his favour, so he’s got a chance to actually go and be a proper works driver.
Shame it leaves them up shit creek as we stand because I’m not sure at all that Suninen has the minerals to step up into his place. Let’s hope Jari can bring some money, relax and drive the shit out of the fiesta, it all actually might work out well for all involved.

T16 knows it all doesnt he...

Re Evans - it suited MW to use him but also you need to realise that Evans wouldnt have been in WRC with anyone else for most of his career. MW should be praised for his system of developing people over lonh periods and not criticised constantly as some kind of wicked user of poor little driver's.

Re Latvala - I dont want him back at M-Sport. Its time to give a younger guy another chance.

[T16]

T16 knows it all doesnt he...

Re Evans - it suited MW to use him but also you need to realise that Evans wouldnt have been in WRC with anyone else for most of his career. MW should be praised for his system of developing people over lonh periods and not criticised constantly as some kind of wicked user of poor little driver's.

Re Latvala - I dont want him back at M-Sport. Its time to give a younger guy another chance.

Put your tissues away and read what I’ve said.

[mknight]

Re Latvala - I dont want him back at M-Sport. Its time to give a younger guy another chance.

I think MSport needs at least one "established" driver for multiple reasons:

- comparison for the youngsters/inexperienced
- "independent" comparison with speed of other cars
- help with car setup/feedback during the rallies (Suninen was really vocal about this and missing Evans this year in Finland)
- car development

Both Latvala and Mikkelsen would work for that, maybe in a way better than Evans, cause Evans never drove a different WRC car.

If you have MSport with say Suninen, Greensmith and Tidemand/or some other new driver it might be really hard to even "sell" Suninen to other teams later, cause it would be close to impossible to tell how good really is unless he suddenly starts finishing on podium in every second rally, which is rather unlikely. So even Joukhi and other "customer" should be interested in MSport having some driver like that.

[tomhlord]

Evans to Toyota. If it happens then it will be the true test of his talent and a barometer of the Fiesta's competitiveness.

[dimviii]

Evans to Toyota. If it happens then it will be the true test of his talent and a barometer of the Fiesta's competitiveness.
the best should be Ogier at Toyota in conjuction with Tanak at hyundai.
that will say a lot about true speed of cars.

[Rally Power]

He can always retire. He has had his years, he had his chances. He isn't likely going to improve.

Why not? Without being in Tanak’s shadow anymore and with his personal matters resolved, Latvala could be as competitive as he was in 2017. Besides, it’s hard to see anyone better than him to lead TGR WRC hybrid car development.

An Evans (fingers crossed for him), Latvala, Meeke and Rovanpera line-up sounds competive enough to make one believe TGR would again be fighting for the manus title, especially once it’s hard to predict how Tanak/Neuville Hyundai ‘cohabitation’ will work.

[dimviii]

Aichi recce? Central Rally Aichi (8 - 10 November)

https://twitter.com/TakamotoKatsuta/status/1192060802271858689

[mknight]

An Evans (fingers crossed for him), Latvala, Meeke and Rovanpera line-up sounds competive enough to make one believe TGR would again be fighting for the manus title, especially once it’s hard to predict how Tanak/Neuville Hyundai ‘cohabitation’ will work.
Going by this year that combination has close to no chance of manu title... because Latvala and Meeke brought very little manu points compared to others:
http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/

(note that the list of team points per driver favors drivers in two cars teams though)

[Rally Power]

Going by this year that combination has close to no chance of manu title... because Latvala and Meeke brought very little manu points compared to others:
http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/


There’s life beyond stats. Without suffering from Tanak’s direct comparison, Latvala and Meeke will probably be more at ease and perform on a higher level; if Evans joins them, he’ll certainly be eager to show a top speed from the start and even Rovanpera, after the initial adaptation, could be able to help the team scoring. A more balanced line-up can eventually play in Toyota’s favour.

[mknight]

There’s life beyond stats. Without suffering from Tanak’s direct comparison, Latvala and Meeke will probably be more at ease and perform on a higher level; if Evans joins them, he’ll certainly be eager to show a top speed from the start and even Rovanpera, after the initial adaptation, could be able to help the team scoring. A more balanced line-up can eventually play in Toyota’s favour.

Titles are given for points (=stats). What ifs are what ifs...

Yes I agree that they can likely benefit from Tanak not being there. But there will always be someone else (for example Evans, or at least the other one of the pair). The Latvala dream-scenario of 2017 when he had only Haninen and extremely green Lappi in team is not likely to repeat at Toyota. (Might happen at MSport though.)

Sure they can also still change, after all Tanak was crashing a lot until mid 2017 or so and this year he was extremely reliable, but with time it's getting less and less likely.

[Got Mail]

I think MSport needs at least one "established" driver for multiple reasons:

- comparison for the youngsters/inexperienced
- "independent" comparison with speed of other cars
- help with car setup/feedback during the rallies (Suninen was really vocal about this and missing Evans this year in Finland)
- car development

Both Latvala and Mikkelsen would work for that, maybe in a way better than Evans, cause Evans never drove a different WRC car.

If you have MSport with say Suninen, Greensmith and Tidemand/or some other new driver it might be really hard to even "sell" Suninen to other teams later, cause it would be close to impossible to tell how good really is unless he suddenly starts finishing on podium in every second rally, which is rather unlikely. So even Joukhi and other "customer" should be interested in MSport having some driver like that.

Loubet was hinting at the weekend that he will be in a WRC1 car in 2020.

MSport is really the only realistic option.

[RS]

Loubet was hinting at the weekend that he will be in a WRC1 car in 2020.

MSport is really the only realistic option.

Really? That’s a rather quick progression. Maybe a combination of WRC2 and WRC1 like Greensmith did this year.

[Tarmop]

What " crashing a lot" he had since 2016 season...2 restarts i remember.

[er88]

Loubet needs another solid full season in WRC 2 or whatever it's called.

[deephouse]

that shows that Paddon, Breen, Ostberg, Latvala or Meeke are out of job. Sure ocasional outings but not full seasons anymore when every year some youngster knock on the doors and teams accept them with open hands

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ostberg, Latvala & Meeke have had plenty of WRC years and chances to prove their ability. I hope Breen and Paddon get any seat options that are available. But as usual money will talk and teams will probably take a 'proven' driver first...

[wrc2017]

Ostberg, Latvala & Meeke have had plenty of WRC years and chances to prove their ability. I hope Breen and Paddon get any seat options that are available. But as usual money will talk and teams will probably take a 'proven' driver first...how many full season has Meeke, otsebef and Latvala had?

[TypeR]

how many full season has Meeke, otsebef and Latvala had?

Meeke 4 full and 3 half seasons
Mads 6 full and 6 half
Latvala 13 full and 4 half :D

[deephouse]

The thing is Citroen did a big mistake when chosing Lappi over Ostberg. If he would drive I bet they would be in the mix of Manufacturer title, which is by the way more important than another Ogier's title chasing (bosses from PSA and Citroen would maybe drop a little bit more funding to the team). But who knows at the start of the season when new driver come along to the team, how he will perform over the year.

About Latvala he was a real contender in Loeb era (2008-2012). Then get caught in Ogier's era again. And now Tanak. He just lost his confidence and no one deserves the title more than him (sorry my thinking). If he will continue doing full seasons I really hope he will get a chance and become one. It doesn't have to be 3 or more, just one and I bet he will be more than satisfied.

Meeke - hmmm. He is fast, but crash prone at least in Citroen case. But that probably leave a scar to his career. And age. His years are running out so he doesn't have more chances. He probably realizes that this year and will probably aim for number two spots (points scorer for team). But there are so many of them already that he is not highest on the list (and he is contract free every year and that's one plus for him).

Paddon - Hyundai just don't believe in him anymore at least in world stage. I hope if he don't get a chance in another team it would be fare and square after he do so much for the marketing aspect for the team that he at least drive in WRC2 full time for works team. But if I would be him I would be looking at another teams already. He is young and if he will showing his speed and consistency, he can be hired again by Hyundai sometime in the future. It's not unusual that some drivers came back to the original teams, they've started.

Breen: he will do anything even if just one rally, because he is used to from previous seasons.

Again not enough seats available. For youngsters it would need to be wildcar entries not full seasons straigh away, but that's utopian world.

[denkimi]

About Latvala he was a real contender in Loeb era (2008-2012).
No he wasn't. His best result was 2th in 2010, 105 points behind Loeb.
Even in the dominant polo he was never a real contender for the title.

I always wondered why people have given latvala so much credit and continue to do that. There has not been one year in his carreer where he has actually delivered what he is paid to do. He has, except in a few rally's, never been anywhere near consistent, either being slow or crashing.

He was called crashvalla when he was still driving the ford, and nothing has changed now 10 years later.

[Norm75]

Meeke 4 full and 3 half seasons
Mads 6 full and 6 half
Latvala 13 full and 4 half :D
Technically, this season will be Meekes 3rd full season after Australia, without being benched or booted.

[krissucool]

No he wasn't. His best result was 2th in 2010, 105 points behind Loeb.
Even in the dominant polo he was never a real contender for the title.

I always wondered why people have given latvala so much credit and continue to do that. There has not been one year in his carreer where he has actually delivered what he is paid to do. He has, except in a few rally's, never been anywhere near consistent, either being slow or crashing.

He was called crashvalla when he was still driving the ford, and nothing has changed now 10 years later.

While this is true, he has also got 18 wins which shows he has had real, top level speed that few others have.

But booy does he like to crash as well.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Re the future of Citroen and Ogier... yes it could be the end for Citroen if he leaves. Or Citroen could just pull out anyway seeing tough competition from the two Asian teams.

But... remember Abu Dhabi - they said they would return in 2020.

Their sponsorship could pay for a 3rd or even 4th car. Then Citroen could find another driver bringing budget and they could end up with a really viable team to fight for the titles.

[er88]

Or Abu Dhabi don't return at all...

[pantealex]

I don´t remember that "Abu Dhabi" mentioned "Citroen" when they said "would return 2020"...

They could sponsor some other ...

[cali]

I don´t remember that "Abu Dhabi" mentioned "Citroen" when they said "would return 2020"...

They could sponsor some other ...Or if they will ever return...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[tomhlord]

Loubet was hinting at the weekend that he will be in a WRC1 car in 2020.

MSport is really the only realistic option.

Qatar sponsorship back with M-Sport? Yes please.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Just read a story saying Ogier's contract with Citroen prevents him driving for another team if he leaves before it ends. So he would have to sit out 2020 if he leaves now.

Toyota move is not gonna happen.

[AnttiL]

Toyota move is not gonna happen.

Right, only if Citroen would call it quits.

[wrc2017]

Right, only if Citroen would call it quits.
Chicken and egg.. Citröen won't quit if Ogier stays.

[Tarmop]

Who knows, new leadership, new collaborations...VW in 2016 is a great example.

[rhm]

Just read a story saying Ogier's contract with Citroen prevents him driving for another team if he leaves before it ends. So he would have to sit out 2020 if he leaves now.

Toyota move is not gonna happen.

+1 this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[the sniper]

Qatar sponsorship back with M-Sport? Yes please.

I very much doubt it. Nasser Al-Attiyah said this in Spain:


“I wish to do this race because it looks fit for us. We know Safari from longtime and now its back. I think we have a good chance to do since we plan to do a few WRC events if we have time,” he said.

“We have a good relation with the Toyota team and Tommi, so we can do events with a Toyota Yaris next season,” said Al-Attiyah.

A Qatar backed 'Junior' Toyota team could be an interesting proposition. Rovanperä, Katsuta, Loubet? (Already Qatar sponsored this year), with Al-Attiyah doing the likes of Kenya, Turkey, Sardinia... Looks good to me!


No reason why Abu Dhabi/Al Qassimi couldn't go back to M-Sport though. ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Info on Insta from Italy

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIyuJB_XUAA4mlO?format=jpg&name=medium

[rhm]

Guestimate:

Citroen: Ogier & Lappi

Hyundai: Tanak, Neuville, Sordo/Loeb

Toyota: Evans, Meeke, Latvala/Katsuta/Kalle rotate car 3 & 4

MSport: Suninen... Paddon/Mikkelsen/Breen/Ostberg...?

Did I forget anyone?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[denkimi]

Just read a story saying Ogier's contract with Citroen prevents him driving for another team if he leaves before it ends. So he would have to sit out 2020 if he leaves now.

Toyota move is not gonna happen.
Contracts are just useless pieces of paper if people are prepared to pay.

It will cost them many millions, but if they really want ogier and he wants them, they can have him.

[Allez Andruet]

Contracts are just useless pieces of paper if people are prepared to pay.

It will cost them many millions, but if they really want ogier and he wants them, they can have him.

So they're useless but it still requires millions to get rid of them?

I still struggle to figure out why on Earth would 1) Toyota pay millions to buy-out Ogier's current contract (and pay additional millions to Ogier for his services in 2020) and 2) Ogier switch to a team for which no-one with options seems to be willing to work for? Yes, the car is quick, that we've seen, but there are signals it's no longer the monster it was with the bigger rear wing. And as Ogier has said many times, 2020 will be his last season in WRC - why would he play such a big gamble?

[T16]

So they're useless but it still requires millions to get rid of them?

I still struggle to figure out why on Earth would 1) Toyota pay millions to buy-out Ogier's current contract (and pay additional millions to Ogier for his services in 2020) and 2) Ogier switch to a team for which no-one with options seems to be willing to work for? Yes, the car is quick, that we've seen, but there are signals it's no longer the monster it was with the bigger rear wing. And as Ogier has said many times, 2020 will be his last season in WRC - why would he play such a big gamble?

They want him so they can win.
He wants them because it’s still a faster car than the Citroen.

[TypeR]

Technically, this season will be Meekes 3rd full season after Australia, without being benched or booted.

Well.. okay, I counted 2017 also as full season (he did 12 rallies out of 13)

[denkimi]

So they're useless but it still requires millions to get rid of them?

What part of it do you not understand?

The police will not come to put tommi and ogier in jail if they break the contract. It will either be setteled internally, or it will go to a judge who will put a price on it.

And if toyota want to win a title they need better drivers than what they are left with. They need ogier.

And for ogier staying at citroen is perhaps an even bigger gamble than going to toyota. With the current c3 he will never be world champion, and there is no way to know if the car will get on the same level as the competition next year. With the toyota and hyundai budget, it is unlikely that citroen will catch up. Most likely they will just fall ever further behind.

[Allez Andruet]

The police will not come to put tommi and ogier in jail if they break the contract. It will either be setteled internally, or it will go to a judge who will put a price on it.

I'm quite sure that company like Toyota won't touch anything that can have legal consequences. Especially if it's something as serious as breach of contract. The contractual buy-out clauses usually call for quite substantial amounts of €. Just my guess, but I would assume that in case Ogier we're talking about seven figures. Maybe just, but anyway.

What comes to the claim of Ogier never being a champ with the C3, I think it's quite an overstatement. Yes, they couldn't match Tänak and Toyota (especially Tänak IMO) this year, but it's not like he's heading into the new season against the Hyundai's etc. with a 205 Rallye.

In a nutshell: if Citroen pulls the plug, then yes, Ogier might very well end up at TGR. In all other scenarios, no way.

[Rallyper]

I´ve been wrong before, but JML probably drive 3rd car full season at Toyota. As Kalle will only drive part of 2020, he and Takamoto having 4th car.

[Got Mail]

Loubet needs another solid full season in WRC 2 or whatever it's called.

He's been in the WRC for 5 years now.

I'm not sure there's anything to be gained by another year in WRC2.

[er88]

I´ve been wrong before, but JML probably drive 3rd car full season at Toyota. As Kalle will only drive part of 2020, he and Takamoto having 4th car.Where do you keep getting this from? Are you choosing to deliberately ignore the reports that Kalle will drive a full season for Toyota?

[Rallyper]

Where do you keep getting this from? Are you choosing to deliberately ignore the reports that Kalle will drive a full season for Toyota?

From where did you get that?

I think it can be big mistake give him that responsibility.

[er88]

From where did you get that?

I think it can be big mistake give him that responsibility.David Evans has written it in numerous articles this year that Kalle will do all events as part of the main Toyota team.

Maybe without Tanak and no top driver on massive salary they might run 4cars, but Kalle isn't going to be sharing with Katsuta. He will do a full season.

Makinen has also been quoted saying Katsuta's program is dependant on Japan, but said he can see him doing either all the European events + Japan, or a full season. So clearly won't be sharing a car with Kalle.

[seb_sh]

So taking rumors into account it maybe looks like this:

Hyundai: Tanak, Neuville, Loeb/Sordo and presumably one other driver on at least one rally, maybe Breen and driving the R5 in the WRC2 team?
Citroen: Ogier, Lappi
Toyota: Evans, Meeke or Latvala, Rovanpera + Katsuta in "junior car" + maybe Al-Attiyah on Safari and maybe other "rough" rounds?
Ford: Suninen, possibly Greensmith and Tidemand on occasional rounds.

I don't think Citroen will retire and so Ogier will stay there, they have plenty of updates coming next year so it may not be so bad to stay there. He has a good chance as Tanak and Neuville may take points off each other. Each car has certain strong and weak events but now for Tanak and Neuville those will be the same, before they were not always fighting directly.

I guess Ford is waiting to see what happens and then take whoever is left without a drive and get a good deal from them. Maybe they could take Latvala or Meeke, whoever is dropped by Toyota.

For me the dark horse in this is Mikkelsen, I think he was doing well in the Polo (helped by the car of course) but since then he has struggled in the Citroen and Hyundai. Maybe switching to Ford he will find a car that suits him more and might be a surprise.

[pantealex]

David Evans has written it in numerous articles this year that Kalle will do all events as part of the main Toyota team.

Maybe without Tanak and no top driver on massive salary they might run 4cars, but Kalle isn't going to be sharing with Katsuta. He will do a full season.

Makinen has also been quoted saying Katsuta's program is dependant on Japan, but said he can see him doing either all the European events + Japan, or a full season. So clearly won't be sharing a car with Kalle.

D.Evans has been right but Kalle himself has said that he doesn´t want full season...

That´s the reason why some here ignore other reports.

And yes, it´s possible that Kalle is doing full season.

Katsuta is not part of "official" TGR but Kalle will be, so if Kalle do part season, he is not sharing it with Katsuta.

[er88]

D.Evans has been right but Kalle himself has said that he doesn´t want full season...

That´s the reason why some here ignore other reports.

Ok thanks, wasn't aware at all Kalle had said that.

I think it would be beneficial for him to do a full season, get knowledge of all events in a world rally car. However I would run him as a 4th car, take away the pressure of having to think of manufacturers points in his first season.

[Essaj]

D.Evans has been right but Kalle himself has said that he doesn´t want full season...

When has he said this? ��

[SubaruNorway]

Ok thanks, wasn't aware at all Kalle had said that.

I think it would be beneficial for him to do a full season, get knowledge of all events in a world rally car. However I would run him as a 4th car, take away the pressure of having to think of manufacturers points in his first season.

Bit hard to do full season when he's in the army maybe? I'm sure he gets special treatment but still

[Norm75]

Bit hard to do full season when he's in the army maybe? I'm sure he gets special treatment but still

I'm sure if his government were prepared to give him special permission to take his driving test a year earlier than the law permits, they will give him a few weeks off here and there to participate in top level rallying.

[Allez Andruet]

I'm sure he gets special treatment

He sure will.

[pantealex]

When has he said this? ��

First time I heard it during Rally Finland.
And few times after that.

[wrc2017]

few things to consider

Ogier, will he flout his contract, ie by taking a test drive in Toyota, in the hope he get fired?
does that leave him a free agent.

what if he does that, and then doesn't like the Toyota?

is Ogier as fast as Tanak? my answer is no.
therefore if Ogier was in Toyota this year, he would not have won the championship either?

what if the Toyota isn't as strong as he thinks? it was Tanak making it look good.

Toyota are not going to pay Citroen a break fee, Ogier will have to pay that, which could be a years Citroen wages, which means he drives the toyota for net zero money (excluding bonuses)

Citreon will never release Ogier, if that want to stay in WRC in 2020. They are now maybe convinced they have a good car, with the upgraded aero, or at least better than it was.

The rules are stabilized for a few years now... you will see the performance of the cars converging

Meeke 2nd year in Yaris could be a threat to Ogier, at least on speed, maybe not consistency. He was match for Tanak on a few rallies. Latvala wouldn't be a threat to Ogier, he has been there 3 years now, there is no room for improvement for JML. What if Roverpera shows them all up on a couple of events?

Citroen maybe will pull out after 2020. If that is the case, they will not be distracted by developing a new 2021 car, unlike the others.

My view is Ogier is bettering staying where he is. If he goes to Toyota and it doesnt work out.. its Ogiers looks bad. If he stays in the C3, he can still be the one that 'turned it around', if is doesnt work in 2020 in C3, "its a dog" as we all know.

[Allez Andruet]

Ogier, will he flout his contract, ie by taking a test drive in Toyota, in the hope he get fired?
does that leave him a free agent.


Getting fired (due to apparent breach of contract) doesn't make you a free agent.

[wrc2017]

Getting fired (due to apparent breach of contract) doesn't make you a free agent.

I'm only saying, it depends how the contract is worded. "if driver DECIDES to leave.." is different than being fired..

[Allez Andruet]

I'm only saying, it depends how the contract is worded. "if driver DECIDES to leave.." is different than being fired..

Whatever the exact wording on the contract is, it for sure won't allow such option where the driver (even if it's Seb II himself) would be free just to jump ship like that.

[Norm75]

I'm only saying, it depends how the contract is worded. "if driver DECIDES to leave.." is different than being fired..

We had that precedent last year when Meeke was sacked. We had a complete news blackout and no comment from Kris or Citroen, and it appeared he was unable to get a drive in the wrc for the remainder of his contract.

I spoke to Desborough last summer, and asked him if there was any news or comment from Kris. He told me back then with the caveat of "between you and me" hence why I didn't mention it on here, that Kris was suing Citroen. Take from that what you will, but I think it may have been to try and be free from any contract so he could persue a drive elsewhere.

[racerx1979]

We had that precedent last year when Meeke was sacked. We had a complete news blackout and no comment from Kris or Citroen, and it appeared he was unable to get a drive in the wrc for the remainder of his contract.

I spoke to Desborough last summer, and asked him if there was any news or comment from Kris. He told me back then with the caveat of "between you and me" hence why I didn't mention it on here, that Kris was suing Citroen. Take from that what you will, but I think it may have been to try and be free from any contract so he could persue a drive elsewhere.

Yeah, it gets weird when a contract prevents you from earning a living. I've had such contracts with previous employers (non-compete etc) and they can always be broken, but in Ogier's case it is different since he is not fired from Citroen like Meeke was.

[Norm75]

Yeah, it gets weird when a contract prevents you from earning a living. I've had such contracts with previous employers (non-compete etc) and they can always be broken, but in Ogier's case it is different since he is not fired from Citroen like Meeke was.
Yes there are loopholes, where a contract states you can't go and work for a rival, or within a certain distance in the same field of work, there are also laws regarding being prevented from working for a living that can counteract the contract clauses.

Only basing this on WRC2017's theory about Ogier (or his wife) doing something that forces Citroens hand.

[denkimi]

is Ogier as fast as Tanak? my answer is no.
therefore if Ogier was in Toyota this year, he would not have won the championship either?

what if the Toyota isn't as strong as he thinks? it was Tanak making it look good.

i assume this is the first year you have followed the wrc?

[wrc2017]

So you think in a straight fight Ogier is as quick as Tanak??

[wrc2017]

OZ Citröen Press Release.. Full committed to 2020

REACTIONS FROM…

Pierre Budar, Citroën Racing Team Principal

“We have learned the lessons from Spain and everyone on the team is totally committed to the goal of getting back on the podium in Australia, as well as continuing to plan for 2020 so that we can start the new season in the best possible shape. If the weather stays dry, then Esapekka and Janne will have a great chance here. It’s an event they really like. Meanwhile, although Sébastien and Julien aren't as well placed in the running order, they have already proven in the past that they are capable of producing very strong performances from that kind of position.”

[reff92]

Interview with Adamo about securing Tänak signature : https://www.autohebdo.fr/wrc/actualites/adamo-sur-la-signature-de-tanak-j-ai-besoin-d-avoir-tous-les-grands-pilotes-qui-sont-rapides-207201.html

Google translate helps somehow.

[EstWRC]

When did you think about recruiting Ott Tänak?

In January.


:laugh:

[denkimi]

So you think in a straight fight Ogier is as quick as Tanak??
I believe that in a straight fight in the same car ogier is faster than tanak. Just like has been proven in 2017.

Ogier is the man who was faster than loeb, the man who ridiculed everyone in his s2000 year, the man who demoted every single team mate he has had. And most of all, ogier is the man who has won 6 championships in 2 different cars.
Tanak is the man who just happens to have a very dominant car and bad teammates this year.

Next year will be exciting, because now we will really see how much of his speed was due to the toyota. Perhaps i will have to adjust my opinion after a few rally's, but untill then there is not a single reason to think that tanak is faster than ogier.

[meh]

I believe that in a straight fight in the same car ogier is faster than tanak. Just like has been proven in 2017.

Ogier is the man who was faster than loeb, the man who ridiculed everyone in his s2000 year, the man who demoted every single team mate he has had. And most of all, ogier is the man who has won 6 championships in 2 different cars.
Tanak is the man who just happens to have a very dominant car and bad teammates this year.

Next year will be exciting, because now we will really see how much of his speed was due to the toyota. Perhaps i will have to adjust my opinion after a few rally's, but untill then there is not a single reason to think that tanak is faster than ogier.

Seems that we follow different WRC :)

Proven in 2017? Can not agree. I remember some team-orders in place. Ogier was clear number one by team-orders, had often improvements and new parts on car (so not 100% equal always).

Ogier is fast, no question about that, 6 titles didn't come as gifts. Is Ogier faster than Tänak in 2019+, I doubt. So, I have different opinion. The truth here is something we will never know.

[dimviii]

Ogier is the man who was faster than loeb,.

no ,he was slower all year ,with better road position at same car.

[EstWRC]

I believe that in a straight fight in the same car ogier is faster than tanak. Just like has been proven in 2017.

2017

Rally wins

Ogier 2
Tänak 2

Stage wins

Tänak 30
Ogier 22

Rally leaders

Tänak 40
Ogier 14

[Allez Andruet]

Next year will be exciting, because now we will really see how much of his speed was due to the toyota.

Yeah, because there were no signs of any speed when Tänak was at M-Sport...

[Tarmop]

And the Yaris is driven flatout and occupies the podium all the time by others also...

[denkimi]

Yeah, because there were no signs of any speed when Tänak was at M-Sport...
of course there were. there were however no signs that he would suddenly be much faster than ogier.


And the Yaris is driven flatout and occupies the podium all the time by others also...
remember that mighty dominant polo? in 4 years ogier collected 1088 points, latvala collected 675.
by comparison, in the last 2 years tanak collected 444 points. latvala 222.

its not tanak who has suddenly discovered something magic when changing cars, its just latvala and meeke who are utter failures in driving that dominant toyota.

[tommeke_B]

No need to throw some numbers around, you can say exactly the same about Neuville/Hyundai as you can about Tänak/Toyota. I think that at this point you can put Tänak in any WRCar, and he'd be the quickest driver. It's up to Neuville to make his homework now, fast... ;)

[EstWRC]

let him be, its clear to see he wont change his mind

im sure IF Tänak next year SHOULD be as fast with the Hyundai, then people will start talking that the Hyundai is the most dominant car and etc

[mknight]

its not tanak who has suddenly discovered something magic when changing cars, its just latvala and meeke who are utter failures in driving that dominant toyota.

Well the second part is rather obvious:

Podiums:
Tanak 9 (6 wins), his teammates: 3 (33%)
Neuville 8 (3 wins), his teammates: 5 (62,5%)
Ogier 7 (3 wins), Lappi: 3 (43%)

Latvala and Meeke have 3 podiums from 26 starts (8,6 starts per podium!, 13 for Meeke, 6,5 for Latvala)
Lappi has 3 podiums from 13 starts (4,3 starts per podium)
Mikkelsen has 3 podiums from 10 starts (3,3)
Evans has 2 from 10 starts (5)
Sordo has 2 from 8 starts (4)

Even assuming the 4 cars are exactly the same Latvala and Meeke numbers are devastating. As to the cars... between Turkey 2018 and Turkey 2019 Toyota had highest number of stage wins on every single rally, out of 13 rallies this year they had highest number of stage wins in 11. (but yes, lot of these are off course due to Tanak)

[T16]

is NOT back?

[seb_sh]

I also think at the moment Tanak is faster than Ogier but you have to take into account that Ogier is near the end of his career while Tanak is at his peak. Also in the past Ogier was not always the fastest, maybe also in part due to road position, but he was fast enough to get on the podium and error free, that's why he won a lot of championships, being the fastest is not the only thing that matters. Tanak has had the speed for years but only a couple years ago he started to be consistent. Maybe he learned some things from Ogier too?

Interesting in those stats about number of podiums for number of starts, Mikkelsen is doing well, sure road position counts but in a world where the top 3 are taken and also based on his past form in the Polo I would like to see him in a different car.

[mknight]

Tanak has had the speed for years but only a couple years ago he started to be consistent. Maybe he learned some things from Ogier too?

Last year Tanak got fast on every rally. First this year he learned not to push 100% all the time. Or as Tommi said in Spain after the championship win he stopped trying to win every stage.

[Tarmop]

Well, yeah, that wise talk again, maybe, BUT the top 3 was the same last year and unlike last year, he was the chasen one, previous year he was the chaser...behind two of the top 3. Quite a simple option, if you want top be ahead of someone, you have to go faster than the ones ahead of you. Lets also remember, that before his 3 in a row, it looked like he was out of the game, pretty much.

Now you can ofc talk how the best rallycar in the world is supposed to break 4 times with the same issue etc (most of the time chasing the other top3 members) , but hey, be my guest.

[mknight]

Well, yeah, that wise talk again, maybe, BUT the top 3 was the same last year and unlike last year, he was the chasen one, previous year he was the chaser...behind two of the top 3. Quite a simple option, if you want top be ahead of someone, you have to go faster than the ones ahead of you. Lets also remember, that before his 3 in a row, it looked like he was out of the game, pretty much.

Now you can ofc talk how the best rallycar in the world is supposed to break 4 times with the same issue etc (most of the time chasing the other top3 members) , but hey, be my guest.

I quoted Tommi, but off course who is he to know...

[Tarmop]

Well, everyone makes mistakes, maybe i could be wrong in this also, but when you have three men fighting for the wins (apart from latvala in Australia) and you are in third position, only way to get in front, is to be faster than your rivals, who happen to win or score big on every event... When you are already at the front, it is about controlling and not going flat out all the time...and he managed that quite well, if you look at the standings throughout the year. Ogier himself has said, that the last rounds he was in all or nothing mode aka going for it at all cost or binning while doing it.

But being points behind, you can`t count on your luck/ others bad luck like some championships have been decided...

[doubled1978]

No need to throw some numbers around, you can say exactly the same about Neuville/Hyundai as you can about Tänak/Toyota. I think that at this point you can put Tänak in any WRCar, and he'd be the quickest driver. It's up to Neuville to make his homework now, fast... ;)

I think Neuville V Tanak in the same car will be very interesting.
Neuville starts with the advantage of knowing the car inside out, and as we have seen it is clearly a car that needs a certain finesse to get the best out of, particularly on tarmac. If Tanak can get the better of Neuville consistently it will be a bloody good effort.

[mknight]

I think Neuville V Tanak in the same car will be very interesting.
Neuville starts with the advantage of knowing the car inside out, and as we have seen it is clearly a car that needs a certain finesse to get the best out of, particularly on tarmac. If Tanak can get the better of Neuville consistently it will be a bloody good effort.

On (dry) tarmac the big question is what Hyundai is going to do if the car as is doesn't suit Tanak (like Loeb and Mikkelsen) while it suits Neuville (and Sordo). That will be the real test for Adamo imo. Since it will be Tanak and Loeb vs Neuville and Sordo it is likely he will go for changes. Question is if they are possible with just homologation jokers.

Then again on tarmac there is only Monte (which is unlikely to be dry and warm most of the rally) and then a very long break for 10 months until Germany. By that time it is possible Hyundai has completely new car based on the new I20 and this problem might be completely moot. Starting to wonder if next year calendar with much reduced tarmac rallies might have had something to say for Tanak's signing.

[doubled1978]

On (dry) tarmac the big question is what Hyundai is going to do if the car as is doesn't suit Tanak (like Loeb and Mikkelsen) while it suits Neuville (and Sordo). That will be the real test for Adamo imo. Since it will be Tanak and Loeb vs Neuville and Sordo it is likely he will go for changes. Question is if they are possible with just homologation jokers.

Then again on tarmac there is only Monte (which is unlikely to be dry and warm most of the rally) and then a very long break for 10 months until Germany. By that time it is possible Hyundai has completely new car based on the new I20 and this problem might be completely moot. Starting to wonder if next year calendar with much reduced tarmac rallies might have had something to say for Tanak's signing.

I’m not sure it suits Neuville and Sordo, I just think that perhaps the guys that have struggled more with it on dry tarmac, would find a bigger improvement in time. I happen to think Neuville in particular has been mega with it on tarmac, as I don’t think in real terms it is a match for the Toyota or Ford.
Not sure about Hyundai, but maybe Tanak considered the lack of tarmac in his thinking. I’m sure he is probably expecting it to be worse than the Toyota on dry tarmac.

[deephouse]

It's not that Neuville and Sordo are tarmac specialists...

[mknight]

It's not that Neuville and Sordo are tarmac specialists...
Loeb is historically a much better tarmac driver than Sordo. He was also faster on same tarmac rallies last year when he drove C3 and Sordo drove i20.

[reff92]

Sordo is not tarmac driver anymore. He is pretty fast on gravel as well.

[Katvala]

Has there been any new rumors since Evans -> Toyota?

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[reff92]

Has there been any new rumors since Evans -> Toyota?

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

Is there any better driver to get to Toyota?

And plz dont come with Mikkelsen - his place is wrc2 as age has been shown. Best quote from his midseason stageend interview was something like that : "I need to learn how to drive". And that says everything about that.

What is Evans good side why Toyota might get him? :
Stable than Meeke and Latvala.
Can drive gravel and tarmac rally-is and even win those when god doesnt thing otherwise.
He is right now "Free agent" with some money to Malcolm.
He has pretty good car know-how from previous team(Meeke and Latvala is lacking on that) what helps with some development.
ETC....

[ggg377]

Is there any better driver to get to Toyota?

And plz dont come with Mikkelsen - his place is wrc2 as age has been shown. Best quote from his midseason stageend interview was something like that : "I need to learn how to drive". And that says everything about that.

What is Evans good side why Toyota might get him? :
Stable than Meeke and Latvala.
Can drive gravel and tarmac rally-is and even win those when god doesnt thing otherwise.
He is right now "Free agent" with some money to Malcolm.
He has pretty good car know-how from previous team(Meeke and Latvala is lacking on that) what helps with some development.
ETC....

I think the question is again whether Toyota wants him. They let Lappi slip, Sordo slip, Tänak slip and ignored Ostberg, Paddon, Breen and pretty much every other driver that was on the market. With their budget they could get anyone, but somehow they ended up with aging Latvala and Meeke and I doubt that's going to change.

[T16]

Has there been any new rumors since Evans -> Toyota?

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

They may be waiting to suss the Ogier situation before they make any further plans.

[ggg377]

They may be waiting to suss the Ogier situation before they make any further plans.

Budar confirmed Citroen will be continuing in the series.

[mknight]

Is there any better driver to get to Toyota?

And plz dont come with Mikkelsen - his place is wrc2 as age has been shown. Best quote from his midseason stageend interview was something like that : "I need to learn how to drive". And that says everything about that.

What is Evans good side why Toyota might get him? :
Stable than Meeke and Latvala.
Can drive gravel and tarmac rally-is and even win those when god doesnt thing otherwise.
He is right now "Free agent" with some money to Malcolm.
He has pretty good car know-how from previous team(Meeke and Latvala is lacking on that) what helps with some development.
ETC....

Mikkelsen has pretty much exactly same performance as Evans this year and much better historically. In direct fights this year their score is also pretty much even. They have about same ammount of WRC starts (Mikkelsen about 10% more) and are about same age (Evans 1 year older).
Furthermore Evans has never driven any other WRC car than an Msport one (and without checking I don't think he drove a different R5 either). Mikkelsen drove multiple including 3 out of 4 current ones and two current R5s.

So picking between them is certainly not an obvious decision. The WRC2 comment is ridiculously retarded given that Mikkelsen just finished 4th in the championship with highest number of podiums outside of top 3. Beating 4 other drivers who had 3 more starts than him and Evans who did same number of rallies.

Since Toyota didn't win manu champs. I expect a bit more pressure on Tommi to bring new drivers.

[AnttiL]

Mikkelsen drove multiple including 3 out of 4 current ones

Citroen, Hyundai, ??

[mknight]

Citroen, Hyundai, ??

VW 2017, but that is 3 out of 5. Thx

[Katvala]

Citroën is out of the question unless they for some reason decide to run three cars.
Although, it would put them in a good chance for next year to win the Manu title, with Ogier, Lappi and Mikkelsen. Andreas also did well in the C3 in Germany with his second place. And after Ogier retires, I don't see them being near a title for a long time anyway (assuming they remain for more years)



Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[mknight]

Unless Citroën gets more money ( say from Abu Dhabi) I think they will just use what they have for development and testing for Ogier.

[Katvala]

Indeed. But it wouldn't be completely out of the picture that they allocated more to the budget for a one off season for a chance at the title, even though it would be tight on money. Another driver could also potentially bring in some money as well..

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[meh]

Few toughts on Mikkelsen vs Evans topic.

Mikkelsen - for me it seems (and it clearly assumption not any fact-based knowledge) that he is lacking master-mind for how to setup car for his style. If setup accidentally (copied from others?) suits him, he is fast, we have seen that. But with those skills you can be in the team no 2 or 3, not have responsibility on no 1 driver.

Evans with mechanic skill in this term is more valuable (does not have limits on that area) in my opinion.

[mknight]

Few toughts on Mikkelsen vs Evans topic.

Mikkelsen - for me it seems (and it clearly assumption not any fact-based knowledge) that he is lacking master-mind for how to setup car for his style. If setup accidentally (copied from others?) suits him, he is fast, we have seen that. But with those skills you can be in the team no 2 or 3, not have responsibility on no 1 driver.

Evans with mechanic skill in this term is more valuable (does not have limits on that area) in my opinion.

This is hard to tell from the outside though.

At Hyundai in 2018, Mikkelsen was supposedly not listened to/allowed to make changes. This year the upgrades for Finland were told to be his work and he was fastest Hyundai matching their best ever result there. On tarmac Loeb is struggling with same issues as Mikkelsen.
What is true is that Mikkelsen has had rallies where he struggled and complained about setup.

With Evans it's really hard to tell, cause as he said he only drove Fiesta (with Ogier in team). Don't think it changed much from last year to this.

So I agree that this kind of reasoing can play a role, but again it's not a clear cut.

IMO Toyotas best choice for next year is to get both, ditch one of Latvala/Meeke and put kalle in 4th car.

[ggg377]

Interestingly Adamo has voiced intent to keep Mikkelsen and Breen in Hyundai. It looks like he might sign a contract with them and keep them tied up for the whole season. With M-Sport chasing Evans as well, suddenly the range of drivers available for Toyota will be drastically reduced. Ostberg said next season maybe Toyota. In my opinion that would be a serious contender for one of the spots (unless Toyota goes the tried and true route again).

[ggg377]

In my opinion Kris Meeke was a fail for Toyota. Yeah he had good pace here and there, but ultimately he lost Toyota so many points, which led to losing the manufacturer's title even with Tänak crushing the driver's leaderboard. Latvala was simply not good. Both should be replaced.

[meh]

What is true is that Mikkelsen has had rallies where he struggled and complained about setup.

"I still learning the car" through many-many rallies is the main reason from my side to assume he struggles with setup. Maybe it's really not possible to setup Hyundai if it's built around Neuville and you are not listened. We probably will get some more feedback when Tänak goes there. As Loeb also struggles, it hints a bit to general Hyundai problem also.


With Evans it's really hard to tell, cause as he said he only drove Fiesta (with Ogier in team).

I don't think Ogier played important role for Evans's technical skills. It was Evans supporting and giving instructions when Ogier repaired car on road side (can not recall the rally).

... you NEED to have mechanic skill if you go to Toyota ... ;)

[ggg377]

Next season will have only one tarmac rally so Paddon should be a very serious contender for a Toyota spot too. His results in 2018 were actually really good. I would say 1) Evans, 2) Paddon, 3-4) Mikkelsen/Breen, 5) Ostberg, 6) Latvala, 7) Meeke in order of priority and depending on availability (there might be contracts and relationships we're not aware of that might make some of these drivers unavailable in reality).

[meh]

Interestingly Adamo has voiced intent to keep Mikkelsen and Breen in Hyundai.

Reasons:
* you can not demotivate them before Rally Australia (when it was said by Adamo)
* Adamo has ambition to run R5 program, they are valuable there (as Breen was driving all R5 cars this year)

[ggg377]

Reasons:
* you can not demotivate them before Rally Australia (when it was said by Adamo)
* Adamo has ambition to run R5 program, they are valuable there (as Breen was driving all R5 cars this year)

Another great reason is these promising drivers can be kept away from the claws of the competition. Adamo is playing it out strategically (with the help of BIG resources from Hyundai). With Tänak and Ogier out of the picture, it's looking very awkward for Toyota right now. I'm sure Latvala would love to fight for the WDC for Toyota, but realistically they will only have a shot at the manufacturer's title next season. Thinking about it, Evans/Latvala wouldn't be a bad team at all if Latvala managed to get his head on straight. Still, unless Mäkinen pulls out some mastermind level plays, I don't even see them standing a chance against Hyundai in either title fight.

[EstWRC]

very good interview with Ogier https://www.evoindia.com/motorsport/motorsport-features/sebastien-ogier-interview

[T16]

very good interview with Ogier https://www.evoindia.com/motorsport/motorsport-features/sebastien-ogier-interview

Hmm... call me cynical, but I can’t see anything in there that confirms his commitment to Citroen for 2020, especially given the current rumours.

[EstWRC]

i call you cynical then.


and it was just a good interview.

[T16]

i call you cynical then.


and it was just a good interview.

yeah, agreed it was a good interview.

[wrc2017]

yeah, agreed it was a good interview.

Other than the paragraph..

You talked about the fact that after next year your plan has always been to retire, when you see out your contract.

[T16]

Other than the paragraph..

You talked about the fact that after next year your plan has always been to retire, when you see out your contract.

That's actually not what it says. 'When you see out your contract'... where did you get that bit from? He doesn't say anything about seeing out his contract, just responds to a question when the interviewer says it has been renewed.

edit: also note Ogier's response to the question about grooming Lappi.... He doesn't answer the question that was asked.

[AnttiL]

Latvala said he will do at least one rally next year if left without a seat


https://twitter.com/rallitfi/status/1194241450772500481?s=21

[EstWRC]

My guess at the moment

Hyundai

#1 Tänak
#11 Neuville
#19 Loeb
#6 Sordo
#42 Breen (maybe 4th car on some rounds but mostly R5 development)

Toyota

#33 Evans
#5 Meeke
#10 Latvala
# Rovanpera (not doing a full season)
#17 Katsuta (not doing a full season)

Citroen

#9 Ogier
#4 Lappi
# Ostberg, #89 Mikkelsen (part time season if one of them gets chosen)

M-sport

#3 Suninen
#44 Greensmith
# 89 Mikkelsen, Ostberg (with m-sport they may do full season, depends on budget)

[tomhlord]

Hmmm, I seem to remember it being reported somewhere that a shared car isn't the prefered method, but it was successful for Hyundai in 2019. I wonder if Meeke and JML would agree to a system like that?

I can't see Kris agreeing, somehow, but food for thought.

[wrc2017]

That's actually not what it says. 'When you see out your contract'... where did you get that bit from? He doesn't say anything about seeing out his contract, just responds to a question when the interviewer says it has been renewed.

edit: also note Ogier's response to the question about grooming Lappi.... He doesn't answer the question that was asked.
It is what it says.

[pantealex]

I think TGR should take both Evans and Mikkelsen.
Breen, Paddon and maybe Østberg also are not bad choices either but those 2 have better "records" lately.

[ggg377]

Mäkinen interview to rallit.fi: "I would like to see a Finn racing in our team"

Paddon to 1News: "It was probably my last WRC rally"

Suninen to Toyota? The fact that he's managed by Jouhki who has deep ties with TGR makes this all the more reasonable. Should Toyota snag either Evans or Suninen or both, there will be a gap to fill at M-Sport and why not Paddon?

[AnttiL]

I only now realized Sordo has a contract for seven rallies and Loeb for six rallies. Season has 14...

[ggg377]

I only now realized Sordo has a contract for seven rallies and Loeb for six rallies. Season has 14...

Adamo will probably keep at least Breen if not Mikkelsen around. I imagine Sweden and Finland will be rallies which neither Sordo nor Loeb are interested in.

[er88]

Mäkinen interview to rallit.fi: "I would like to see a Finn racing in our team"

Paddon to 1News: "It was probably my last WRC rally"

Suninen to Toyota? The fact that he's managed by Jouhki who has deep ties with TGR makes this all the more reasonable. Should Toyota snag either Evans or Suninen or both, there will be a gap to fill at M-Sport and why not Paddon?Erm Kalle....

Suninen is at Msport next year.

[the sniper]

I only now realized Sordo has a contract for seven rallies and Loeb for six rallies. Season has 14...

Surely it makes sense for Paddon to do New Zealand... I like Adamo, but to me that'd be a no brainer...

I imagine what we'll actually see is Breen doing GB, as I can see neither Loeb or Sordo being keen to do it.

[er88]

Hyundai - Neuville, Tanak, Loeb/Sordo. Breen will maybe do Finland and GB + R5 development & WRC2.

Toyota - Meeke, Evans, Rovanpera. Katsuta in 4th car for most events.

Citroen - Ogier, Lappi & maybe Ostberg doing selected events. Another R5 campaign for the rest.

Msport - Suninen, Greensmith + anyone who will drive for free/ bring budget.

Out - Latvala (bar maybe a 1 off appearance).

In a worrying position - Mikkelsen and Paddon ( although you'd wonder why Malcolm wouldn't give either a drive to replace Evans).

[deephouse]

Better to have some slow crash prone rich father kid and stick with him full seasons like 3 or more years. Evans and Tanak was dropped immediately while some others don't. I mean Suninen and Greensmith. They are nowhere

[wrc2017]

Mäkinen interview to rallit.fi: "I would like to see a Finn racing in our team"

Rovanpera?

[Duvel]

At M sport they would be glad to welcome Jari Matti I think, to replace Evans
Latvalla 1st driver, whit some extra funds from Jari himself
Suninen 2nd driver, another "investment" year
3th driver could be Andreas, whit his own funds, partial program.
Greensmith wil also drive for them, but I don't think it will be for the whole championship.

[Duvel]

So, in best case (most equal teams whit the free seats available )
Hyundai Tanak, Neuville, Loeb, Sordo, Breen
Citroën, Ogier, Lappi, Ostberg
Toyota Evans, Meeke, Rovanpera, Katsuta
Msport Latvalla, Suninen, Mikkelsen, Greensmith

[Rally Power]

edit: also note Ogier's response to the question about grooming Lappi.... He doesn't answer the question that was asked.

He didn’t answer because the question was pretty stupid…he’ll be there to figth for WDC, not to babysit Lappi.

Btw, many are still seeing Mikkelsen at Hyundai next year but isn’t he already out? Otherwise, why did he missed Australia and left Even?

[T16]

It is what it says.

It's definitely not what it says... "SC: You contract has been renewed for one more year, does that mean that after the next year you retire?"

Read it again.

[wrc2017]

It's definitely not what it says... "SC: You contract has been renewed for one more year, does that mean that after the next year you retire?"

Read it again.
I suggest you read it again

[ggg377]

He didn’t answer because the question was pretty stupid…he’ll be there to figth for WDC, not to babysit Lappi.

Btw, many are still seeing Mikkelsen at Hyundai next year but isn’t he already out? Otherwise, why did he missed Australia and left Even?

Mikkelsen missed Australia because Hyundai was looking at a huge battle with Toyota and Adamo decided Breen's starting position would have been ideal to attack on Friday, while Mikkelsen's starting position at fourth on the road would have been less than ideal. Adamo just said he is in contact with both Breen and Mikkelsen. He will definitely need a third driver for rallies like Sweden, Finland and GB where Sordo and Loeb are pretty much guaranteed to back out.

[T16]

Other than the paragraph..

You talked about the fact that after next year your plan has always been to retire, when you see out your contract.

Are you actually having a laugh? Please quote the text above, from the article. Cheers.

[wrc2017]

Are you actually having a laugh? Please quote the text above, from the article. Cheers.

am i going to get an apology?

[wrc2017]

Are you actually having a laugh? Please quote the text above, from the article. Cheers.

Did you just delete your post about a sincere apology???

[mknight]

So, in best case (most equal teams whit the free seats available )
Hyundai Tanak, Neuville, Loeb, Sordo, Breen
Citroën, Ogier, Lappi, Ostberg
Toyota Evans, Meeke, Rovanpera, Katsuta
Msport Latvalla, Suninen, Mikkelsen, Greensmith

I'd say a Toyota team like this has 0 chance for any championship and would likely not pass Japanese approval. 2 years ago it would have, but now that they won manu last year and got close to nothing this year (since Tänaks team change stole all PR they could get.) they imo will not be wanting to wait, 2+ years for Kalle to develop.
Any of Mikkelsen, Suninen and Latvala is better that putting Kalle as manu nominated car. Both for the team and for Kalle himself.

Off course it's very hard to say what Wilson might offer to anyone. But as we talked about earlier he should be interested in having at least one experienced driver onboard, at minimum so that the youngsters have someone to compare with.

[wrc2017]

I'd say a Toyota team like this has 0 chance for any championship and would likely not pass Japanese approval. 2 years ago it would have, but now that they won manu last year and got close to nothing this year (since Tänaks team change stole all PR they could get.) they imo will not be wanting to wait, 2+ years for Kalle to develop.
Any of Mikkelsen, Suninen and Latvala is better that putting Kalle as manu nominated car. Both for the team and for Kalle himself.

Off course it's very hard to say what Wilson might offer to anyone. But as we talked about earlier he should be interested in having at least one experienced driver onboard, at minimum so that the youngsters have someone to compare with.
Ye of little faith

[wrc2017]

did you just delete your post about a sincere apology???

t16...?

[T16]

t16...?

I did, you're right. I thought I should re-check again and..

I am genuinely, sincerely sorry.

I checked a few times today when I challenged you and failed to look past the section I thought you had mis quoted.

No excuse and I will lick my woulds for a bit, I'm sure.

Hope I didn't offend and once again, I am sorry.

[AnttiL]

Mäkinen asked directly if Evans visited their hq.




– Ei siitä… Ei kyllä… Tietysti spekulaatiota on monenmoista. Me mennään eteenpäin ja katsotaan, kuinka hommelit etenevät

- Not about that....no yes....of course there are many kinds of speculations. We go forwards and see how things progress.

I can so imagine that with Tommi's voice :D

https://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makinen-hammentyi-kysymyksesta-joka-koski-kuumia-kuskihuhuja-katsotaan-kuinka-hommelit-etenevat/

[Allez Andruet]

Mäkinen asked directly if Evans visited their hq.

16-word answer to a simple "yes/no" question. I'm not sure which requires more skills, that or winning four World titles. Could be a draw.

[RS]

16-word answer to a simple "yes/no" question. I'm not sure which requires more skills, that or winning four World titles. Could be a draw.

He should become a politician.

[skarderud]

Fake news?

Ogier to Toyota...

https://www.rallyeslalom.com/ufficiale-ogier-in-toyota-citroen-si-ritira-dal-wrc/?fbclid=IwAR2gSGr_RPD7xubeWj8xCARMJyMq3SdbK0lpk2eq 6DGxnRnaksxYXOHafKI

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Katvala]

I was just about to post that one.
They really claim so, instead of speculating. But i don't know the reliability of that site or their sources

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

Doesn’t seem to be reliable site to me at all

Haven’t even heard about it.

[Indreq]

Doesn’t seem to be reliable site to me at all

Haven’t even heard about it.

Nice way to get bookmarked in every rally fans browser. Even if it turns out to be some bullshit, still their readers base will increase.

[wrc2017]

Hearing some mutterings from a Citröen (not rally team) contact that this could well be true. The question is which came first.. Citröen deciding to leave, or Ogier deciding to leave.. remains to be seen.

[Katvala]

I saw someone said it was rumored Ogier had spoken to the PSA boss and it was said there that for next year Citroën would run a third car with a driver capable of scoring "big points" and be allocated more funds. Hm.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[Indreq]

Considering Toyotas reliability issues, Missis Ogier should already start thinking of some moniker about Toyota to replace #shitroen in her tweets.

Considering how seriously japanese take all things related to ethics and honor, she will probably be decapitated by some samurai first time she uses it.


PS all above was meant as a joke. For those oversensitive ones who might be reading.

[AL14]

I'm having confirmation from reliable italian journalist about that news. Still not sure about to trust that or not but I think it's more than a clickbaiting article

[Eli]

I'm having confirmation from reliable italian journalist about that news. Still not sure about to trust that or not but I think it's more than a clickbaiting article

Are you talking about this one? https://www.rallyssimo.it/2019/11/14/citroen-lascia-ogier-passa-in-toyota-e-tanti-piloti-cercano-un-sedile-e-rivoluzione-wrc/

[AL14]

Are you talking about this one? https://www.rallyssimo.it/2019/11/14/citroen-lascia-ogier-passa-in-toyota-e-tanti-piloti-cercano-un-sedile-e-rivoluzione-wrc/

No. Talking about him https://twitter.com/MarcoGiordo/status/1194880326604140544

[tomhlord]

Goodness, I hope this isn't true.

[Eli]

Goodness, I hope this isn't true.

God I really hope so (that it won't happen), only 2 & a half teams for 2020, doesn't bode well for the future of the WRC, that's a minimum of 2 seats gone....

[T16]

For me, there way no way his wife would have made those remarks unless him not driving a Citroen in 2020 was already a done deal.
No surprise at all.
Massive shame that they are off again, but I am getting a bit sick of all the in and out that seems to go on, though I guess money is tight these days and where they are trying to go as a company (Citroen, not just PSA) doesn't tie in with a WRC marketing strategy.
Just praying Evans is also in that team and at least there's M-sport to soak up the best of the rest.

[er88]

Yeah we are already lacking seats, 1 more team would be ideal with the current driver pool.

So to lose Citroen would be horrible. Even worse is that Msport are seemingly just wanting pay drivers now that they couldn't get Tanak.

[cali]

Crazy, but expected

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[Eli]

The most worrying thing is, although there will be new regulations coming in 2022, no car manufacturer has put interest in the WRC, yes it's still 2 years from now but hopefully by May of next year we will get an announcement. I'm calling out on May because that's around the time VW said they would come back, back in 2011, and Toyota also expressed their interest in the WRC at that same period of time back in 2015.

[T16]

Although I am a fan of seeing as many of these cars as possible on a stage, maybe another way to look at it would be that we have eight top-quality drivers in 2020, as opposed to eight top quality ones and a few stragglers (not naming names).

I would rather see the top three in genuine top three cars (let's face it, the Citroen was a shit-box for most of the year) so, with Tanak and Neuville in the Hyundais versus Ogier in a Toyota, it would well make for a better championship that we've seen in 2019.

Rather worrying overall though for the WRC, in the way a team seems to be able to pledge commitment and within a couple of weeks (seemingly) just change direction and leave.

Maybe it's time for a full review of attracting new teams to the sport, as whatever the current formula is, it's not working.

[EstWRC]

It seems it is true after all. So many rumors about it today.

Horrible news if indeed true.

[Eli]

It seems it is true after all. So many rumors about it today.

Horrible news if indeed true.

and now coming from this: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/147135/citroen-2020-wrc-programme-in-doubt

[meh]

Although I am a fan of seeing as many of these cars as possible on a stage, maybe another way to look at it would be that we have eight top-quality drivers in 2020, as opposed to eight top quality ones and a few stragglers (not naming names).

I would rather see the top three in genuine top three cars (let's face it, the Citroen was a shit-box for most of the year) so, with Tanak and Neuville in the Hyundais versus Ogier in a Toyota, it would well make for a better championship that we've seen in 2019.

Rather worrying overall though for the WRC, in the way a team seems to be able to pledge commitment and within a couple of weeks (seemingly) just change direction and leave.

Maybe it's time for a full review of attracting new teams to the sport, as whatever the current formula is, it's not working.

It also may be boring like hell, when from 8 drivers only 3 are allowed to win because of team-tactics (can not imagine it to happen in Hyndai yet, but it will be there)

[Allez Andruet]

Ogier-Lappi-Rovanperä then?

[Eli]

It also may be boring like hell, when from 8 drivers only 3 are allowed to win because of team-tactics (can not imagine it to happen in Hyundai yet, but it will be there)

Completely agree, and you have less room for youngsters to showcase themselves, not to mention rally drivers who were already sidelined. Where will Lappi go? just as an example.

[meh]

What also is a bit surprising is that M-Sport is so silent. Usually they at least talk about "we don't have enough support from Ford to continue".

In case Citroen leaves, there is still M-Sport available. If we will see someone to rise and shine as surprise next year, it will be from M-Sport.

[T16]

and now coming from this: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/147135/citroen-2020-wrc-programme-in-doubt

Jackson was replaced a few weeks ago.. slight inaccuracy, but still the same conclusion.

[T16]

What also is a bit surprising is that M-Sport is so silent. Usually they at least talk about "we don't have enough support from Ford to continue".

In case Citroen leaves, there is still M-Sport available. If we will see someone to rise and shine as surprise next year, it will be from M-Sport.

That would be a complete mess, if they were out too, but they have spoken recently about wanting to keep Evans for next year, so hopefully that’s a good sign.

[meh]

.. and to help Mrs Kaiser, I invented new hashtag also: #exitroen

edit: #toyogier seems to be accurate as well

[Eli]

Jackson was replaced a few weeks ago.. slight inaccuracy, but still the same conclusion.

Yes I know, I think like a month ago....perhaps they are making way for Opel to comeback....although I know it sounds absurd, we'll know better about any of the company's future activity in WRC once the merge of PSA-FCA will take place in December, not talking about Citroen leaving before the 2020 season like what they plan to do in years to follow.

[Indreq]

I wonder if Citroen R5 program continues or this will also be stopped?

[Eli]

I wonder if Citroen R5 program continues or this will also be stopped?

They'll probably pull the plug on that too, make it a privateer thing, and that will be that.

[EstWRC]

is this the craziest silly season of all time ?

[cali]

is this the craziest silly season of all time ?At least as crazy when VW pulled the plug.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

[Fredouye]

Jackson was replaced a few weeks ago.. slight inaccuracy, but still the same conclusion.We only heard rumours...on Citroën's website, she's still the CEO.

[Eli]

is this the craziest silly season of all time ?

Must be, have been following the discipline since the end of 2007, can't recall a silly season as silly as this one. I mean Subaru & Suzuki leaving back at the end of 2008 was pretty dramatic but I think imho this topples that.

[T16]

We only heard rumours...on Citroën's website, she's still the CEO.

Lots of motoring press confirmed it a while ago. I honestly thought it was done.

[T16]

Evans to be announced as a Toyota driver next week, according to Autosport. Cracking news.

[tomhlord]

Lots of motoring press confirmed it a while ago. I honestly thought it was done.

It sounds like the move is on the cards, but it's not officially confirmed and it looks like for now she's still in the role. "Set to be..." https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/updated-linda-jackson-be-replaced-citroen-ceo-reports-say

[Fredouye]

Lots of motoring press confirmed it a while ago. I honestly thought it was done.Even on business medias (like Challenges or BFM), everything was conditional.

[Francis44]

I did, you're right. I thought I should re-check again and..

I am genuinely, sincerely sorry.

I checked a few times today when I challenged you and failed to look past the section I thought you had mis quoted.

No excuse and I will lick my woulds for a bit, I'm sure.

Hope I didn't offend and once again, I am sorry.

C'mon guys, lets calm down.

In the last couple of seasons we had, atleast from what I remember, the closest fights in the last decade. There is no clear superior car, the cars are spectacular and for a nice change the winner of a rally is no more guaranteed to be called Sebastien 95% of the time.

Citroen and PSA in general are undergoing big changes, now the FCA fusion and just recently the Opel deal.

After yesterday's Peugeot Lemans announcement I began doubting Citroens future programm in the WRC, they said nothing about that while mentioning the DS programm.

For me it makes sense for them to retire Citreon and think about a future involvement with another of their brands. Citroen literally has no hot-hatch or any sport derived road car on sale at the moment, it does not make promotional sense for them to be there, imo.

BTW, Peugeot Sport future Hybrid line-up would be very well promoted in an hybrid World Rally Championship 👀.

[Indreq]

Evans to be announced as a Toyota driver next week, according to Autosport. Cracking news.

So Ogier, Evans, Rovanpera in TGR? Not bad lineup. Feel sorry for M-Sport, their best combination would probably be Meeke, Lappi and Breene, they dont even have to pay them probably? Even more sorry for Paddon, Latvala, Greensmith and R5 guys dreaming of stepping up.

[EstWRC]

Evans to be announced as a Toyota driver next week, according to Autosport. Cracking news.

link too https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/147136/toyota-could-announce-evansogier-within-week

[EstWRC]

My guess at the moment

Hyundai

#1 Tänak
#11 Neuville
#19 Loeb
#6 Sordo
#42 Breen (maybe 4th car on some rounds but mostly R5 development)

Toyota

#33 Evans
#5 Meeke
#10 Latvala
# Rovanpera (not doing a full season)
#17 Katsuta (not doing a full season)

Citroen

#9 Ogier
#4 Lappi
# Ostberg, #89 Mikkelsen (part time season if one of them gets chosen)

M-sport

#3 Suninen
#44 Greensmith
# 89 Mikkelsen, Ostberg (with m-sport they may do full season, depends on budget)

how wrong was i and this was just two days ago!!!

updated now

Hyundai

#1 Tänak
#11 Neuville
#19 Loeb
#6 Sordo
#42 Breen (maybe 4th car on some rounds but mostly R5 development)

Toyota

#9 Ogier
#33 Evans
# Rovanpera
#17 Katsuta (not doing a full season)


M-sport

#4 Lappi
#3 Suninen
#44 Greensmith

and knocking on door


# 89 Mikkelsen
# Ostberg
#10 Latvala
#5 Meeke

[Eli]

Too many drivers, not enough teams to go around....such a shame.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No surprise at all at Citroen news. It was a perfect storm, or perfect opportunity, to quit with their uphappy car/driver/financial situation.

The big money invested by Hyundai and Toyota have made it impossible to compete with too.

I now wonder what M-Sport will do if Ford wont commit any further than 'technical assistance'. But at least they will have their pick of the remaining drivers.

[Andre Oliveira]

Good time to some one invest in private teams like Munchi’s?

[Eli]

No surprise at all at Citroen news. It was a perfect storm, or perfect opportunity, to quit with their uphappy car/driver/financial situation.

The big money invested by Hyundai and Toyota have made it impossible to compete with too.

I now wonder what M-Sport will do if Ford wont commit any further than 'technical assistance'. But at least they will have their pick of the remaining drivers.

Wasn't there a rumor saying Ford will be back full time in 2022? I know it's not 2020, but didn't someone say that a while ago?

[denkimi]

So neuville and tanak vs ogier and evans.

For the drivers title i'll put my money on ogier, but for the constructors i'm not really sure. :p

[Tarmop]

Ogier is also in a new learning position...depends on how well the i20 will do on events it hasn`t performed for some reason.

[AnttiL]

M-sport

#4 Lappi

Do you also assume he will split with EVEN Management?

[reff92]

I dont think that Toyota is more reliable next year. There are some very basic errors made in preventive maintenance that year- what lead to think there is something wrong in team management not with so much with the car.

[EstWRC]

Do you also assume he will split with EVEN Management?

i just dont see any other place for him

[meh]

So far Mäkinen have been against team-orders, I wonder, what happens with those principles when Ogier lands in Toyota

[ggg377]

Ogier and Evans would be a dream for Toyota and absolutely the best they could make of this situation. Just days ago Hyundai was looking unbeatable. Now it looks like there will be a real battle royale coming up next season. A loss of a manufacturer would be a major loss for the series however.

[ggg377]

I think Lappi to Hyundai will be a possibility if Citroen leaves as well. He could cover the spots Sordo and Loeb leave open (Finland, Sweden, Turkey, GB) amazingly. I would certainly choose Lappi over Breen and Mikkelsen, particularly for these rallies. Next season will have less tarmac than ever and many new gravel events such as Japan, Kenya, NZ. I would even go as far to say that I would expect Lappi to produce better results than Sordo and Loeb in many rallies.

[EstWRC]

japan is tarmac

[ggg377]

japan is tarmac

Oh, some things have changed then, but the point still stands. Lots and lots of gravel events, many of them fast and few tarmac events.

[wrc2017]

I think Lappi to Hyundai will be a possibility if Citroen leaves as well. He could cover the spots Sordo and Loeb leave open (Finland, Sweden, Turkey, GB) amazingly. I would certainly choose Lappi over Breen and Mikkelsen, particularly for these rallies. Next season will have less tarmac than ever and many new gravel events such as Japan, Kenya, NZ. I would even go as far to say that I would expect Lappi to produce better results than Sordo and Loeb in many rallies.

Lappi??
Japan.. Gravel?
You OK?

[ggg377]

Lappi??
Japan.. Gravel?
You OK?

If Citroen leaves Lappi will be a free agent. Adamo has stated he's still in talks with Breen and Mikkelsen. As you know Breen was brought in this season to do rallies, which Sordo and Loeb flat out refused to do. With Tänak and Neuville manning cars #1 and #2 and Sordo and Loeb refusing to do fast gravel rallies, that still leaves a car #3 to be manned in some rallies, which is a problem that Adamo has acknowledged already. I'm sure Japan was a gravel rally last time I checked, but apparently that has changed indeed. My bad.

[Eli]

It's funny if you rewind the clock 12 months ago, Citroen were on the back of a win in Spain with Loeb at the helm....and now 12 months later we are saying goodbye to them for the final time for the foreseeable future...

[wrc2017]

They designed a turd on wheels.
They lived in denial.
They have only themselves to blame.

[ggg377]

They designed a turd on wheels.
They lived in denial.
They have only themselves to blame.

Ogier won 3 rallies with it. Behind competition? Probably. A turd? Likely not.

[wrc2017]

It's a turd.. with some glitter on it.

[sete]

Are we really sure that Citroen is leaving?
To me, its looking that someone wake up in the morning put some own rumours in the article and then whole world just copy his words.

[mknight]

If Citroen leaves I am 100% sure their PR release will talk about focusing on hybrid/electric (WEC).

Wonder what the guys saying how FIA is ruining the "perfect" WRC with hybrid rules (that are still 2 years away) will say.
The "perfect" wrc will be down to 2 teams..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wonder why Citroen went creating and testing all that new aero on the C3 if they werent sure they were staying ?

If it did work its a real shame we wont see it next year.

[Tarmop]

Why did VW build a new car?

[Fredouye]

Everything changes so fast...a few weeks/months ago, Renault was supposed to merge with FCA...and finally PSA is the 'winner'...I guess this decision was taken (IF it's real) during the last couple of days.

[RS]

Maybe there could be an Abu Dhabi or Qatar PH Sport Citroen private team next year with some pay drivers in at least the third car?

[Francis44]

If Citroen leaves I am 100% sure their PR release will talk about focusing on hybrid/electric (WEC).

Wonder what the guys saying how FIA is ruining the "perfect" WRC with hybrid rules (that are still 2 years away) will say.
The "perfect" wrc will be down to 2 teams..

Its not perfect but its much better than it was during 2003-2016. This has nothing to do with regulations but simply with the fact that Citroen does not have the cash to compete at Hyundai and Toyota's level.

[ggg377]

Wonder why Citroen went creating and testing all that new aero on the C3 if they werent sure they were staying ?

If it did work its a real shame we wont see it next year.

Judging from the Autosport article the final say may have come from the CEO of Citroen. Budar was also confident they would continue.

[mknight]

Its not perfect but its much better than it was during 2003-2016. This has nothing to do with regulations but simply with the fact that Citroen does not have the cash to compete at Hyundai and Toyota's level.

a) Regulations are there to try to limit costs (current cars are much more expensive than previous ones)
b) Regulations affect the marketing value of the series (current marketing value is not high enough for Ford to join properly and probably not high enough for Citroen to stay or put more money in)

[Tarmop]

Ford is laying off thousands of workers and closing factories. Really can`t see them doing anything bigger than they are at the moment.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EJWZuIVWkAAPhAY?format=jpg&name=large

[go mads]

Even if citroen do pull out I would be surprised if there wasnt a team running c3s next season, with cheap cars (comparatively) and wealthy drivers unemployed something will happen. Also think the biggest winner is m-sport, lots of proven drivers desperate for a seat! £££££

[Tarmop]

Cheap cars?! Cheaper to buy a championship-winning car or rent it with service...

[Crazy J]

Mäkinen interview to rallit.fi: "I would like to see a Finn racing in our team"

Raikkonen-Bottas-Kovalainen?

[go mads]

Like I said, cheaper comparatively, I'm sure a deal could be struck to buy or rent the c3s

[doubled1978]

Even if citroen do pull out I would be surprised if there wasnt a team running c3s next season, with cheap cars (comparatively) and wealthy drivers unemployed something will happen. Also think the biggest winner is m-sport, lots of proven drivers desperate for a seat! £££££

Not sure about cheap, but it is possible I would think.
Hopefully Citroen would make it viable for some one with sufficient funds to do it.....

[Allez Andruet]

Also think the biggest winner is m-sport, lots of proven drivers desperate for a seat! £££££

Now if only they had the money.

[EstWRC]

i wonder whats Neuville thinking, he was vocal about Toyota being the fastest car, now one of his rivals came into his team but the other one is moving to Toyota :D

[dimviii]

before some months i had wrote about a feeling i had, that Linda had put pressure to wrc team about wins etc.
this ''feeling'' was from her tweets before rallies,but not only.

there somebody else mentioning same thing.

'''CEO Linda Jackson was a regular visitor to the Service Park and there had been numerous reports of her and management’s demands of the team. On the outside, the pressure and direct action from management into the sport is much bigger than we saw in the past and what we see in other manufacturer teams.''''

worth a read mates

http://www.racerviews.com/2019/11/15/opinion-will-citroen-leave-the-wrc-a-look-into-the-business-behind-the-decision/

[Allez Andruet]

After next season Ogier and Loeb will be gone, maybe Sordo as well. So there are definitely places to fight for. Will be interesting to see what kind of programs Mikkelsen, Lappi, Breen, Paddon and Östberg (I count JML and Meeke being out) are able to arrange for themselves in 2020. Seems like the silly season will be far from over even when the line-ups have been confirmed.

[T16]

I’m wondering if the promoter should be speaking to the teams and negotiating subsidising a third / fourth car to get the numbers up.
We may have a cracking fight for the WDC in store, especially with Ogier in that weapon, but the total field being 8 WRC cars, then the series is in a complete shit state. Genuinely worried about the future and let’s face it, the new regs for 2022 don’t sound like they are designed to save money.

[Allez Andruet]

We may have a cracking fight for the wed in store, especially with Ogier in that weapon, but the total field being 8 WRC cars, then the series is in a complete shit state. Genuinely worried about the future and let’s face it, the new regs for 2022 don’t sound like they are designed to save money.

It's not as good as it could be, but I wouldn't call it shit just yet. It has been worse. We started 1997 with 5 factory cars, and the post-Subaru era (whatever it's called) in 2009-2010 wasn't that great either.

[RS]

One imagines Lappi is now regretting leaving Toyota at the end of 2018.

[T16]

It's not as good as it could be, but I wouldn't call it shit just yet. It has been worse. We started 1997 with 5 factory cars, and the post-Subaru era (whatever it's called) in 2009-2010 wasn't that great either.

I can’t think of one other world championship motorsport category that has 8 entries.
It’s shit.
They need to have a serious think about what is wrong and work out how to get more manufacturers involved.

[Indreq]

Citroen Racing has posted on their FB page couple of hours ago - but nothing related to the leaving, just some Sebs interview. So IMHO this confirms that they are leaving. Otherwise, considering how high attention this speculation has received today, it would have costed them nothing to reply and deny it in FB. Lets see...

[go mads]

i can’t think of one other world championship motorsport category that has 8 entries.
It’s shit.
They need to have a serious think about what is wrong and work out how to get more manufacturers involved.

wec?

[Tarmop]

Well, why would they rush, people are talking about them...and they can drag it further and longer.

[mknight]

Budar just denied it in some French interview. Not that it has to mean anything.