Silly Season 2020 [Archive] - Page 2

er88

14th October 2019, 19:17

If Tanak is being a little diva, or Martin is taking the piss with his demands, Toyota are probably one of the more likely marques in racing to tell them to get lost - and enough is enough. The Japanese have real values and a way of doing things, Makinen has built complete trust with them and delivered. It's hard to see how Tanak/Martin could get something else from Toyoda if Makinen isn't on the same page, and totally happy with it.

Ofcourse Tanak is in a massive position of strength, no doubt about that. He's the best driver atm. But Toyota is also the place to be, they've already won a constructors title and will win the drivers title this year (in all likelihood). Plus maybe back to back manufacturers.

It means if worst comes to worst, and an agreement can't be reached with Tanak, it's not the end of the world for them. They aren't at the stage Hyundai are at of craving a title at all cost. They'll also have Kalle who can be a "long term" project, who clearly has massive potential to be a future championship challenger. And although not on Tanak's level, there's good drivers around either in the team currently like Meeke/Latvala, or drivers like Evans, Mikkelsen, Paddon etc who are gettable if need be.

Tanak could go back to a private Msport team who are lacking the big budget, or shack up at Neuville's Hyundai but I fail to see how those options are more appealing than Toyota - a team he already knows, a car he already knows inside out, and a team that is going to help deliver him a probable title.

Tommi and Toyota passed on Ogier, they ran Hanninen for the whole season over dropping him for Mikkelsen when everyone was screaming for them to do otherwise, so Tanak should maybe be careful how he pushes things here.

Tarmop

14th October 2019, 19:37

What does he push, is the question. I don`t think its about money... Maybe reliability? Reliable teammates? First part is really the one bit, where Tänak might have the leverage...and Mr. Toyoda has been quite critical also in terms of tech. failures.

Toyota also has TMG...

mknight

14th October 2019, 19:43

There are clouds on the horizon for Toyota as well though.

- After 2.5 years the rear wing rules are now the same for everyone and from GB and fast stages in Turkey it looks like this means that they are no longer clearly a level faster. So they might need a top driver to win both titles.
- At the same time MSport Fiesta seemed to match even the "full winged" Toyota pace on tarmac (as well as in Sweden), so now it might actually be faster at those rallies
- Looking at new Citroen test pics there is no doubt they are trying hard and might become very strong next year
- Hyundai found a way to circumvent testing rules with the "local" rally starts, while FIA slightly reduced Toyota testing possibilities. Which might help with the typical Hyundai issue of using half of the rally to find good setup.

-----------

As for Tanak's intentions. I think he might also want plans/assurances about whether Toyota is going to make car for the new rules from 2022 on?

Allez Andruet

14th October 2019, 20:06

It's one thing to do it in general and whole another to do it in a Japanese team. In a culture where hierarchy is not only respected, but more like worshipped, it's quite a statement to bypass your boss in an effort to maximize your own value. Let's see, somehow I think this story is far from being over.

Tarmop

14th October 2019, 20:15

Well, on the otherhand, bosses of Hyundai, Ford for example probably don`t even know who their drivers are...mr. Toyoda with his statements and Toyota in general gives one an impression that he has given out his phonenumber and asked people to call it night or day, when necessary...

EstWRC

14th October 2019, 20:24

the Japanese are anyway the ones who have always had the final word.

remember last year? Tommi didnt want Latvala but the Japanese wanted.

so for me it seems Tommi is just the "middle boss" there, the higher bosses are in Japan. i may be completely wrong but this is how it seems to me after all those years.

what i want to say that it doesnt seem weird then that Tänak is talking directly to them.

Allez Andruet

14th October 2019, 20:48

the Japanese are anyway the ones who have always had the final word.

remember last year? Tommi didnt want Latvala but the Japanese wanted.

so for me it seems Tommi is just the "middle boss" there, the higher bosses are in Japan.

For sure they have the final word and it's fully ok for them to overrule something Tommi has said or done as Tommi working for them. In a hierarchical point of view however, just like Tommi is working for Toyota HQ, Tänak is working for Tommi - and that I guess might be an issue here. Or then it's not an issue and everything will go smoothly. Can't wait to hear and see the final verdict.

T16

14th October 2019, 21:53

Has anyone considered that Tommi may be absolutely fine with Tänak talking direct to Toyota?
Maybe he’s had a go and Tanak still isn’t convinced, so Toyota are having a go at signing him from a higher level.
Does anyone honestly think it will piss on Tommi’s bonfire if the negotiations have simply gone to a higher level and he ends up staying there?
Tommi gets his man and most importantly, he isn’t driving for someone else.
The whole thing seems legit to me.

cali

14th October 2019, 22:04

Eating popcorn and thrilled to see how things turn out....

BTW heard rumours that Tommi fucked up the Sardegna win and Tänak was pissed as hell bcs things could have been avoided by simply being not so hesitant.

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Got Mail

14th October 2019, 22:12

https://twitter.com/i/status/1183821742399246344

This could be very interesting....

cali

14th October 2019, 22:18

https://twitter.com/i/status/1183821742399246344

This could be very interesting....Oh my favourite rally personality, I even might watch this kitchen table thingy

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KKS

14th October 2019, 23:20

Tanak playing with fire on a race to get bigger amount of zero at the end of his salary.
What he want else? He's no1. He get a fastest car in championship. Not reliable as he wants - yes, but what could be other way? - Rebuild from scratch all rally car? It's not gonna happen. And I'm sure that team work on reliability of a car, they aren't enemy's for themselves.
He got best position for best choice in championship. Is money get him blind?

Tarmop

15th October 2019, 05:28

Developing small things that have broken is not vuilding a new car. Especially when TMR OY made 8 million eur profit last year...

Hartusvuori

15th October 2019, 06:16

Kradovech

15th October 2019, 06:16

Can it be just as simple as they have said? Tommi does not want to declare any driver as no1 in the team. Ott on the other hand wants it in the contract. So he has gone over Tommis head to check if the Japanese share this principle or not. I'm not saying its a smart move.

wrc2017

15th October 2019, 06:28

wrc2017

15th October 2019, 06:29

Developing small things that have broken is not vuilding a new car. Especially when TMR OY made 8 million eur profit last year...

5m euro could haven been a bonus for winning manufacturers.. You don't know

meh

15th October 2019, 06:56

Facepalm ratio per post is realy high here for last few pages.

Maybe you should not take own or someone elses (including journalists) assumptions as facts?

I'm enjoying the game and waiting results and confirmation from sources.

tr4m

15th October 2019, 06:57

Hopefully Tänak will announce his contract soon, because this is getting beyond silly.

EstWRC

15th October 2019, 07:00

How did Tommi fuck it up? I also heard about Ott's behaviour afterwards, not fully nice.

can you tell more please?

Allez Andruet

15th October 2019, 07:07

Developing small things that have broken is not vuilding a new car. Especially when TMR OY made 8 million eur profit last year...

Actually 3,9M€ in the latest accounting period (2018, I guess it's 1-12) and 6,8M€ in 2017.

One would have to dig in a bit deeper to Tommi Mäkinen Oy's financial statements in order to find out how that has actually been generated.

Fredouye

15th October 2019, 07:10

Why.. does he feel threatened form Meeke Latvala or Rovenpera? Why else would you insistBeing #1 can also mean having teamates that would swap positions to give you some bonus points, and for the moment I don't see Toyota playing that game.

krissucool

15th October 2019, 08:34

Being #1 can also mean having teamates that would swap positions to give you some bonus points, and for the moment I don't see Toyota playing that game.

To be fair, when have they had the chance to do it?

Tänak has always been either ahead of his teammates or the car has broken down and he has been too far away from them.

cali

15th October 2019, 08:42

How did Tommi fuck it up? I also heard about Ott's behaviour afterwards, not fully nice.He was advised to send in new steering racks to Sardegna to be changed in remaining cars (Latvala retired due to the same problem). He decided not to do this although they were aware of the steering issue and the faulty patch which caused it.

Edit: and I'm quite sure Tänak went full mad mode after that, I've heard about it also.

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AnttiL

15th October 2019, 08:43

Some things that Tänak could be negotiating about

- The salary
- The length of the contract
- How much PR he has to do for Toyota
- His role on developing the new hybrid car
- Having confirmed #1 driver status, with other drivers helping him by default
- Having as much test days as he needs, even if it means less for the others
- Having the new parts in his car always first
- The balance between basic salary and the win bonuses
- This is just my idea, but maybe he would like to have a some sort of compensational win bonus if he's winning and the Toyota breaks down

Zeakiwi2

15th October 2019, 09:00

-Able to give the Safari a miss, if he does not want the full round of vaccine shots necessary to go to that part of Africa.

The toyota negotiators probably also have at the back of their mind, how much is being spent on the LMP 1 program. (also being spent on EV R & D etc)

Oraamat

15th October 2019, 09:35

Why.. does he feel threatened form Meeke Latvala or Rovenpera? Why else would you insist

I dont think its about that he feels threatened by them, just its hard to play teamgame if his teammates are thinking that they are fighting for championships like Meeke starting from Monte. One thing is that its hard to stay in competition for manufactures champs if one guy is bringing points and other two are failing most of the time. If u look statistics how much points Tänak has collected or how much Latvala+Meeke are collected together then its pretty sad. Also after Turkey Citröen wasnt too much far behind after double podium with manufac points but they are running only two cars vs Toyotas 3 cars. And the other thing is ofcourse that its hard to fight drivers champs if u dont have proper wingmans. Im not talking only about team commands, just how many times Meeke and Latvala have made mistake by pushing on the limit and given away points to championship rivals or just not keeping pressure from behind.

It seems to me like Meeke for now has got to understanding what his assinmnent is, but does he understand it if the point page is blank again in next Monte? Or he thinks that he could fight for championship again and fuck up his season again. I think if he would have been played smart this season and played team game from the beginning of the season he would have seat for next year, but atm it seems like its Citron all over again, and im not so sure.

Also for Latvala, its seems that he cant play team game in because some problems in his head. In Vw years he was nr 2 in team, and was making mistakes. In Toyota debute year when he kinda was team nr 1 driver, it seemed like he gained a new breathing and performed pretty well and I was really happy, but as soon as Ott came to team, its Vw years all over again and seems like he is mentally broken or something, the same talk again and again that he cant make the setup right or doesent understand whats the problem is but car isnt performing well, although he is one of the most experienced driver atm.

AMSS

15th October 2019, 09:51

Actually 3,9M€ in the latest accounting period (2018, I guess it's 1-12) and 6,8M€ in 2017.

One would have to dig in a bit deeper to Tommi Mäkinen Oy's financial statements in order to find out how that has actually been generated.

3,9M€ for TMR Finland and in addition 8,4M€ for TMR Estonia so that`s 12,3M€ combined

mknight

15th October 2019, 10:06

To be fair, when have they had the chance to do it?

Tänak has always been either ahead of his teammates or the car has broken down and he has been too far away from them.

Both Meeke and Latvala have taken points off Tanak in PS. A lot of times they took points both off him and his rivals but a few times it was from Tanak and not from one of Ogier/Neuville.

At Hyundai Mikkelsen was directly instructed not to push on PS a few times (Sweden, Argentina, Turkey, GB), but also took points off Neuville and Ogier in Sardinia pushing for more manu points by passing Evans.

Allez Andruet

15th October 2019, 10:17

3,9M€ for TMR Finland and in addition 8,4M€ for TMR Estonia so that`s 12,3M€ combined

That's right. I didn't check the OÜ stats at all. That's quite something tbh. 12,3M€ net (?) profit with 82M€ turnover. If I had a business to run I might pick up the phone and call Tommi.

cali

15th October 2019, 10:19

I dont think its about that he feels threatened by them, just its hard to play teamgame if his teammates are thinking that they are fighting for championships like Meeke starting from Monte. One thing is that its hard to stay in competition for manufactures champs if one guy is bringing points and other two are failing most of the time. If u look statistics how much points Tänak has collected or how much Latvala+Meeke are collected together then its pretty sad. Also after Turkey Citröen wasnt too much far behind after double podium with manufac points but they are running only two cars vs Toyotas 3 cars. And the other thing is ofcourse that its hard to fight drivers champs if u dont have proper wingmans. Im not talking only about team commands, just how many times Meeke and Latvala have made mistake by pushing on the limit and given away points to championship rivals or just not keeping pressure from behind.

It seems to me like Meeke for now has got to understanding what his assinmnent is, but does he understand it if the point page is blank again in next Monte? Or he thinks that he could fight for championship again and fuck up his season again. I think if he would have been played smart this season and played team game from the beginning of the season he would have seat for next year, but atm it seems like its Citron all over again, and im not so sure.

Also for Latvala, its seems that he cant play team game in because some problems in his head. In Vw years he was nr 2 in team, and was making mistakes. In Toyota debute year when he kinda was team nr 1 driver, it seemed like he gained a new breathing and performed pretty well and I was really happy, but as soon as Ott came to team, its Vw years all over again and seems like he is mentally broken or something, the same talk again and again that he cant make the setup right or doesent understand whats the problem is but car isnt performing well, although he is one of the most experienced driver atm.The problem is many times Meeke and JML have crashed or made a mistake while trying to compete with Tänak. TGR and Tänak have lost valuable points in their respective chapionship battles because of that while Ogier and Neuville have gained a lot.

Nobody in Citroën or Hyundai even dares to compete with their number one driver even if sometimes sidekicks are in front for a while.

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EstWRC

15th October 2019, 10:29

Nobody in Citroën or Hyundai even dares to compete with their number one driver even if sometimes sidekicks are in front for a while.

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with this i just remembered Wales GB power stage, Lappi was holding his breath when he saw that Ogier was just tiny bit faster than him on splits, and what a relief he had after Ogier had finished and Lappi saw that Ogier was faster him :D

Fast Eddie WRC

15th October 2019, 10:56

It's a tricky balance trying to take points off your team-mates rivals but not beat him too. Plus there's no splits in the car now to judge your speed and the times are generally very close.

dimviii

15th October 2019, 11:44

If I had a business to run I might pick up the phone and call Tommi.

what did he sell Tommi and made so much profits?

Rally Power

15th October 2019, 12:48

what did he sell Tommi and made so much profits?
This: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tommi-makinen-racing-oy

With all those TGR badges, people tend to forget that Makinen’s company (TMR) is an external partner developing and running the Yaris on behalf and expenses of Toyota.

The huge profits are hardly a surprise: he’s cashing in before Toyota decides to pull out, wisely preparing TMG future (as Richards/Prodrive and Wilson/MSport did in Subaru and Ford golden years).

PS: TMR's Estonian branch isn't yet mentioned on the link.

There was a rumour circling around SP couple of months ago.ALLEGEDLY(!!) when Tanak was signed by Martin to be on the board of directors in MM-Motorsport, it was because Tommi was trying to force Martin to pay him under the table so that TM-racing will continue to use MM-Motorsports Fiestas next year. Martin didn't like that and put Ott on the board of directors so that Tommi couldn't hassle more money out of Martin and MM-Motorsport. World media picked it up and it was covered by saying Ott just wants to secure his future.

That would be weird; profits from running the Japanese young drivers are certainly a drop in the ocean, compared to TMR full TGR WRC program.

Tarmop

15th October 2019, 15:41

Well, in addition, there is one lady there, apparently doing most of the leading thing...:D

But asking money under the table...hard or impossible to believe. One word from Märtin/Tänak to Japanese and they lose the project, the huge profit.

Allez Andruet

15th October 2019, 16:30

Well, in addition, there is one lady there, apparently doing most of the leading thing...:D

Mia Miettinen is officially leading the two companies (TMR OY and OÜ) together with Mäkinen. Before joining forces with Tommi, she was the CEO of BMW Finland. Whatever the rumors say, based on her CV there's no doubt she knows the corporate leadership part quite well.

AnttiL

15th October 2019, 16:40

https://www.rallit.fi/toyotan-wrc-tiimilta-odotettavissa-uutisia-jos-vanhat-merkit-pitavat-paikkansa/

A nice observation: these are the three last times that Toyota announced their driver lineups

18th Oct 2016
18th Oct 2017
17th Oct 2018

So...come Thursday and Friday, maybe some news?

dimviii

15th October 2019, 17:03

This: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tommi-makinen-racing-oy
this doesnt ''sell'' something.Just uses money from the biggest manufacturer to promote his brand at wrc
Last time Tommi had a company that sell something,bunkrupted.

That would be weird; profits from running the Japanese young drivers are certainly a drop in the ocean, compared to TMR full TGR WRC program.
there is no harm for some more hundreds thousand euros.Not weird at all for me.
Toyotas healthy economical days have a date expire.And most would have to look for the next day.

EstWRC

15th October 2019, 18:32

Oh my favourite rally personality, I even might watch this kitchen table thingy

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here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MFDUEs4K9o&feature=youtu.be

make some popcorn and grab a beer

Fast Eddie WRC

15th October 2019, 18:32

https://twitter.com/i/status/1183821742399246344
This could be very interesting....

Colin Clark & Andrea Adamo in the kitchen... not really that interesting except on the future of WRC.

Rally Power

15th October 2019, 18:38

this doesnt ''sell'' something.Just uses money from the biggest manufacturer to promote his brand at wrc
Last time Tommi had a company that sell something,bunkrupted.

It’s pretty clear: TMR sells goods (prepared rally cars and parts) and services (developing, testing and running the cars) to his client, Toyota; besides no matter how big Toyota is, for sure their WRC budget isn’t randomly planned.

Btw, TMR troubles in 2010 can be explained by a slowing demand for N4 cars and a huge investement on new facilities, during a global finantial crisis; besides he was working for private costumeurs, not to a big corp like Toyota.

there is no harm for some more hundreds thousand euros.

How stupid could someone be to risk loosing a multimillion WRC client for cheating him on a secondary program? That alleged ‘under the table’ deal simply doesn’t make sense.

Kradovech

15th October 2019, 18:45

Both Meeke and Latvala have taken points off Tanak in PS. A lot of times they took points both off him and his rivals but a few times it was from Tanak and not from one of Ogier/Neuville.

At Hyundai Mikkelsen was directly instructed not to push on PS a few times (Sweden, Argentina, Turkey, GB), but also took points off Neuville and Ogier in Sardinia pushing for more manu points by passing Evans.

People keep complaining, especially in Estonia, how Meeke and Latavala keep stealing PS points from Tänak. It did not sound quite right to me so I took a look at the results this year. Both of them have overall "stolen" exactly 0 points from Tänak in PS. Both "stole" 1 point (Argentina and Mexico) and also "gave" him one point in Germany. Btw, both Latvala in Argentina and Meeke in Mexico lost to Ogier only by 0,1 seconds so they were both very close to actually giving Tänak a point overall.

Here is the overall rankings of "Best powerstage supporting teammate so far" I put together:

1. Sordo - Helped Neuville increase gap to Tänak by 2 points.
2. Lappi - Helped Ogier increase gap to Tänak and Neuville by 1 point.
3. Mikkelsen- Helped Neuville increase gap to Ogier by 1 points.
4. Latvala - Did not increase nor decrease gap between Tänak and rivals
4. Meeke - Did not increase nor decrease gap between Tänak and rivals

From here you could argue that Latvala and Meeke are the worst PS teammates. Maybe so, but by a small margin. Overall they have not stolen points from Tänak and you cannot say others are significantly better than them. The gaps are too small to claim who would be the best choice for the future. The bosses will have to use other figures :)

dimviii

15th October 2019, 18:54

It’s pretty clear: TMR sells goods (prepared rally cars and parts) and services (developing, testing and running the cars) to his client, Toyota; besides no matter how big Toyota is, for sure their WRC budget isn’t randomly planned..

that couldnt happened without toyota money.
Anyway probbly you didnt understand my post.
What i was trying to say is that,of course you will have a big profit running a very healthy budget.
Its impossible to run this business ,with financial losses.
So that he makes these profits isnt a surprise.

Btw, TMR troubles in 2010 can be explained by a slowing demand for N4 cars and a huge investement on new facilities, during a global finantial crisis; besides he was working for private costumeurs, not to a big corp like Toyota.

at these days were plenty of other teams worldwide that were running N4 cars and they were profitable.
So the problem wasnt the global financial crisis,but something else.

How stupid could someone be to risk loosing a multimillion WRC client for cheating him on a secondary program? That alleged ‘under the table’ deal simply doesn’t make sense.
Greediness.

Allez Andruet

15th October 2019, 19:13

What i was trying to say is that,of course you will have a big profit running a very healthy budget.
Its impossible to run this business ,with financial losses.

Oh yes it is, very possible. Making a profit and having a healthy budget are two totally different things.

And who cares if some previous business of Mäkinen's hasn't been that successful? That just makes the story even more magnificent. Success after failure, what could be better?

It's not where you're from, it's where you're at.

dimviii

15th October 2019, 19:29

Oh yes it is, very possible. Making a profit and having a healthy budget are two totally different things.
yes they are different,but Tommi wouldnt put his money to run Toyota programm if it wasnt profitable,nor he would be satisfied to run a multiyear wrc programm for 200.000 euros.
So these profits are logic,and couldnt be different in ANY way.

And who cares if some previous business of Mäkinen's hasn't been that successful? That just makes the story even more magnificent. Success after failure, what could be better?

It's not where you're from, it's where you're at.

were you are here,would be almost everybody who run this programm with this budget.

We have to give credits to Tommi for other things,not for his financial capabilities.

Allez Andruet

15th October 2019, 19:41

yes they are different,but Tommi wouldnt put his money to run Toyota programm if it wasnt profitable,nor he would be satisfied to run a multiyear wrc programm for 200.000 euros.
So these profits are logic,and couldnt be different in ANY way.

were you are here,would be almost everybody who run this programm with this budget.

We have to give credits to Tommi for other things,not for his financial capabilities.

Sorry but no, I don't buy it. Not claiming Tommi would be the second coming of Warren Buffett but it's complete nonsense that "everybody could run it" with the budget Toyota has given him and his company. How much of it is because of Tommi himself? Hard to say, but at the end of the day that's quite irrelevant. It's Tommi who has built the team and hired the people around himself making all this possible, no-one else.

stefanvv

15th October 2019, 19:52

with this i just remembered Wales GB power stage, Lappi was holding his breath when he saw that Ogier was just tiny bit faster than him on splits, and what a relief he had after Ogier had finished and Lappi saw that Ogier was faster him :D

Interesting case isn't it? Lappi certainly wanted to take away points from Ogier's rivals, but not Ogier himself. The muddy roads didn't make that easy task.

mknight

15th October 2019, 20:20

People keep complaining, especially in Estonia, how Meeke and Latavala keep stealing PS points from Tänak. It did not sound quite right to me so I took a look at the results this year. Both of them have overall "stolen" exactly 0 points from Tänak in PS. Both "stole" 1 point (Argentina and Mexico) and also "gave" him one point in Germany. Btw, both Latvala in Argentina and Meeke in Mexico lost to Ogier only by 0,1 seconds so they were both very close to actually giving Tänak a point overall.
...
From here you could argue that Latvala and Meeke are the worst PS teammates. Maybe so, but by a small margin. Overall they have not stolen points from Tänak and you cannot say others are significantly better than them. The gaps are too small to claim who would be the best choice for the future. The bosses will have to use other figures :)

Sorry but this is not correct, they have each stolen 1 point off Tanak when they didn't need to.

In Germany they took 2 points off Ogier, but not Neuville. That didn't "give" Tanak anything. Even if they drove at snail pace it wouldn't give him anything cause he had only 3 brakes from the stage before. Which the team knew before PS started, so there was no choice there.

When you "steal" 2 points and then if you "give" 2 back (which is not correct as just explained), you still stole two. This way result is 0, while it could have been +2 for Tanak.

Sure it's not a massive difference. But it's completely unnecessary when the team's goal should be to have one driver to win the WDC and by Mexico it imo was quite clear it will be Tanak. Surely by Argentina.

If you would be really hardcore for manu title push you'd actually forbid your drivers to push at all on PS. Cause any extra points move drivers up in drivers standings which results in worse starting position on gravel, but nobody has taken it so far yet.

Imo for bosses (and for Tanak) it's not so much about the 1-2 points, but about knowing what your job is. This was great with Meeke in GB on Saturday, when he couldn't keep up with the top3 he didn't try harder and crash but kept 4 place for very important points. But this kind approach should have started 5-6 rallies earlier. I'd guess Tanak would certainly want it from the start of the season. Cause with 2 other cars on decent points he could afford to push a bit harder with some risk of crashing when needed.

dimviii

15th October 2019, 20:31

Sorry but no, I don't buy it. Not claiming Tommi would be the second coming of Warren Buffett but it's complete nonsense that "everybody could run it" with the budget Toyota has given him and his company. How much of it is because of Tommi himself? Hard to say, but at the end of the day that's quite irrelevant. It's Tommi who has built the team and hired the people around himself making all this possible, no-one else.

what do you mean,that Malcolm or Richards would have failed financialy with this budget?
Probably you dont read properly my posts.
So i will write it again.
we have to give credits to Tommi for other things(his choices at every level generally) but NOT for his financial results.
Hope that now is clear that i write about the FINANCIAL RESULTS.

Allez Andruet

15th October 2019, 20:59

what do you mean,that Malcolm or Richards would have failed financialy with this budget?
No, never said that.

we have to give credits to Tommi for other things(his choices at every level generally) but NOT for his financial results.
Then who gets the credit for them? Toyota has invested x millions to run a WRC program and someone is able to do it successfully AND make some millions of profit seemingly each year. Someone does it, that's quite obvious. If the man running the business does not get the credit for it, then who does?

dimviii

15th October 2019, 21:41

No, never said that.

Then who gets the credit for them? Toyota has invested x millions to run a WRC program and someone is able to do it successfully AND make some millions of profit seemingly each year. Someone does it, that's quite obvious. If the man running the business does not get the credit for it, then who does?

when you have so big budget,there is no credit that you managed to dont bankrupt and make profits.
Everybody would do that.Maybe some others could make more profit,bot no one would bunkrupt,when the budget is so huge.
I would give a credit when he managed that, with less budget from competitors,like Cowan.

Kradovech

15th October 2019, 21:47

Sorry but this is not correct, they have each stolen 1 point off Tanak when they didn't need to.

In Germany they took 2 points off Ogier, but not Neuville. That didn't "give" Tanak anything. Even if they drove at snail pace it wouldn't give him anything cause he had only 3 brakes from the stage before. Which the team knew before PS started, so there was no choice there.
Yes it did give Tänak something. If they had not finished before Ogier the gap between them now would be 36 points, not 38. Yes, in this instance it was a no brainer to have them push because of Tänak's situation but you cannot deny them credit for finishing before Ogier.

When you "steal" 2 points and then if you "give" 2 back (which is not correct as just explained), you still stole two. This way result is 0, while it could have been +2 for Tanak.

This is where I disagree with you. The team could go for strategy A - teammates hold back to make sure they do not take away points from #1 driver (unless they need to push to keep their overall position) This way it is quaranteed they will finish with 0 result - nothing taken away but also providing no help. A risk free solution
Strategy B - in this case would be to have them push so they take away points from rivals and with a possibility of jackpot when their #1 driver finishes before them. This is a risk-reward type of situation. You cannot quarantee you will finish faster than rivals - its a race afterall. So sometimes you will have a negative effect, sometimes neutral effect and sometimes apositive effect. You cannot judge this strategy based on any one race IMO. You will have to check the overall effect in the end of the season and then you can say if "strategy A" had been a better choice or not. So in that sense my ranking above was a bit premature, Latvala and Meeke still have 2 rounds where they can "steal" or "give" points.

Imo for bosses (and for Tanak) it's not so much about the 1-2 points, but about knowing what your job is. This was great with Meeke in GB on Saturday, when he couldn't keep up with the top3 he didn't try harder and crash but kept 4 place for very important points. But this kind approach should have started 5-6 rallies earlier. I'd guess Tanak would certainly want it from the start of the season. Cause with 2 other cars on decent points he could afford to push a bit harder with some risk of crashing when needed.
Agreed that knowing your job in the team is what actually matters. So in this instance it depends if teams orders for Latvala in Argentina and for Meeke in Mexico were to push on PS or to hold back. If the order was to push according to "strategy B", I dont see a need to blame then. They tried and failed by 0,2 seconds in both cases - you cant win them all. But if the order was to hold back and they went out and pushed anyway then that is a different story completely. We will never know which of these 2 cases it was, or if it was some 3rd case for that matter.

Overall we are indeed talking about a few points only. (although in the end it might come down to just that, you never know) The real criticism against Latvala and Meeke is their inabilty to finish before Neuville and Ogier overall - that is where they really could have given Tänak/ taken from rivals a significant amount of points. I don't really hold it against them, in that case the championship may have already been decided, now there are some exiting weekends ahead.

wrc2017

15th October 2019, 22:10

Guys.. Your over thinking it. 10s between 4 or 5 drivers? For 99% of the time, there is no room for strategy. Its just flat out.

Allez Andruet

16th October 2019, 07:33

https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/ott-tanakin-jamahtaneista-neuvotteluista-kovia-vaitteita-hyvaksyi-jo-yhden-tarjouksen-suututti-toisen-tiimin-pomon/7590836#gs.ah81st

More Tänak-related rumors from Finland. Finnish media outlet MTV3 is reporting that Adamo met with Märtin during Rally Estonia and was left under impression that they were very close to finalize the deal. Turned out that wasn't the case though, and Adamo was somewhat angered by this turn of events. The story also claims that Tänak had already agreed in principle to sign Toyota's contract proposal, but changed his mind at the very last minute and came back with additional demands. Mäkinen obviously wasn't too pleased with this kind of approach.

meh

16th October 2019, 08:06

I wonder do all actual related parties for all this contract mess also eat popcorn and read peoples nice fantasies what kind of divas they are, what are their requirements, who did what and when...

EstWRC

16th October 2019, 08:11

thankfully this will end soon

but yeah, it seems to me that the rally media hasnt got nothing to write about, so they come out with all sorts of ideas about Tänaks contract.

Katvala

16th October 2019, 08:14

Yep. Looking forward to it ending so that the rest of the contracts can fall into place as well
It makes for some interesting speculation though

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

EstWRC

18th October 2019, 06:43

AnttiL

18th October 2019, 07:30

it seems Toyota read it and decided to push it even further ;)

You know something we don't? Because it's now 18th October and the whole day is still ahead ;)

EstWRC

18th October 2019, 07:35

while we wait, some more fun reading...

"Former rally driver Marko Märtin, who still plays in the background Tänak, disagrees. In his view, Tänak is such a special kind of jockey that the teams have to bend to his will."

"The trick could even pay Tänak a spot on Toyota's next season's crew. Mäkinen will have three tough drivers for the next season without Even Tänak. Kalle Rovanperä is the hottest rookie of the series next season, while Kris Meek and Jari-Matti Latvala are experienced and still hungry victories. This trio is sure to fight for victory in every competition."

taken from finnish sport reporter, Jari Porttilas blog https://www.maximusport.com/post/sahasiko-tänak-omaa-oksaa

AnttiL

18th October 2019, 07:39

taken from finnish sport reporter, Jari Porttilas blog https://www.maximusport.com/post/sahasiko-tänak-omaa-oksaa

Wow, Jari Porttila is a some sort of....legend within Finnish sports reporters. That text seems like a rant after not sleeping for 48 hours, which is also how Jari Porttila usually looks like.

mknight

18th October 2019, 08:29

"The trick could even pay Tänak a spot on Toyota's next season's crew. Mäkinen will have three tough drivers for the next season without Even Tänak. Kalle Rovanperä is the hottest rookie of the series next season, while Kris Meek and Jari-Matti Latvala are experienced and still hungry victories. This trio is sure to fight for victory in every competition."

While indeed able to score multiple single-rally wins, this trio is also very unlikely to be able to fight for any of the two championships.

Katvala

18th October 2019, 08:40

Latvala and Meeke on their best could easily challenge the Manu championship.
Them being able to do their best for a full season though, that's not as likely.

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

Allez Andruet

18th October 2019, 08:48

Wow, Jari Porttila is a some sort of....legend within Finnish sports reporters. That text seems like a rant after not sleeping for 48 hours, which is also how Jari Porttila usually looks like.

That was a bit rude :D

But yes, Jari Porttila is mainly famous for blaiming Norwegians for every single problem there is in The World as well as entering the field DURING a football match between Finland and Turkey (and being very upset when thrown off the field by the officials).

bandit12

18th October 2019, 08:51

We do not know how much of it is true that Tänak talks directly to the Japanese... But if that is the case, then it seems to me that the gentleman is already behaving like a princess.

Legendaarne

18th October 2019, 12:18

https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000006277478.html

Mäkinen saying it's not true that Ott & Markko went behind his back

meh

18th October 2019, 12:24

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2019/driver-moves/page/6757--12-12-.html

even wrc.com want to get own piece of Silly season cake.

mknight

18th October 2019, 12:46

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2019/driver-moves/page/6757--12-12-.html

even wrc.com want to get own piece of Silly season cake.

I think it's nice they join in, instead of just posting pointless PR releases.

Interesting things in the article:
- rumors that Wilson had a five year deal ready for Tanak. I somehow doubt that's true, but then again Wilson did talk about trying to secure "long term" future.
- when mentioning drivers that wait for Tänak's decision the list is: Breen, Latvala, Meeke, Mikkelsen..... no Evans?? (Suninen I can understand but Evans is less obvious). Off course this could be just innocent ommision.

Allez Andruet

18th October 2019, 12:56

Never believe a word Mäkinen says in public. Never.

T16

18th October 2019, 13:04

I can't believe you missed out the most interesting bit: that he's rumoured to be around the table with Hyundai again...

Fast Eddie WRC

18th October 2019, 13:09

Interesting things in the article:
- rumors that Wilson had a five year deal ready for Tanak. I somehow doubt that's true, but then again Wilson did talk about trying to secure "long term" future.

The story was that M-Sport wanted him to help develop the new 2022 hybrid car.

mknight

18th October 2019, 15:07

I can't believe you missed out the most interesting bit: that he's rumoured to be around the table with Hyundai again...

Didn't really count that as news. As long as he is not signed he will try to be seen/rumored to be talking to others, even if it's just for more bargaining power.

cali

18th October 2019, 15:14

I can't believe you missed out the most interesting bit: that he's rumoured to be around the table with Hyundai again...Getting my popcorn out again coz it's going to escalate yet again. What a crazy contract saga it is!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

skarderud

18th October 2019, 16:45

Østberg is in finland to test a WRC car tomorrow. Pre Australia, or something else?:)

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

meh

18th October 2019, 16:49

Østberg is in finland to test a WRC car tomorrow. Pre Australia, or something else?:)

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

By his comments in AllLive I would not be surprised, if it is Toyota. It could cause nice boost and spin to all this silliness :)

skarderud

18th October 2019, 17:10

By his comments in AllLive I would not be surprised, if it is Toyota. It could cause nice boost and spin to all this silliness :)Hehe, yess, just to shake things up a little:)

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Allez Andruet

18th October 2019, 18:04

Silly, more silly, silly season 2020.

EstWRC

18th October 2019, 18:15

You know something we don't? Because it's now 18th October and the whole day is still ahead ;)

only some hours left....:D

AnttiL

18th October 2019, 19:44

only some hours left....:D

Doesn't matter anymore, you already revealed you know something ;)

er88

18th October 2019, 20:04

By his comments in AllLive I would not be surprised, if it is Toyota. It could cause nice boost and spin to all this silliness :)Well it's not Toyota. I took that pretty clearly that he was talking about helping Citroen, if they can do a deal for a number of rallies. Ofcourse Citroen won't pay him and run him for a full season in a 3rd car, but Mads can bring some budget/sponsors on top of any extra money Citroen could find.

A season split between the C3 R5 and the wrc car would be good for both Mads and Citroen.

AnttiL

18th October 2019, 20:29

https://twitter.com/madsostberg/status/1185266904962871298?s=21

Citroen it is that he’s testing

AnttiL

24th October 2019, 12:51

Latvala said to Finnish media that he's not interested in a partial season, it's full season or nothing. Although, he said he's happy to come back to do Rally Sweden and Finland if he doesn't get anything else

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11035138

EstWRC

24th October 2019, 13:03

Ott said in his video blog today that the contract will be revealed any time soon now (i guess next week after the rally, remember Jouhki said the same timeline about Rovanperas contract).

He also mentioned that its quite funny and interesting to read all the "quality" journalism out there, who have written the articles based on the rumours in forums and blogs :D

AnttiL

24th October 2019, 17:05

https://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makiselta-yllattava-kommentti-haluaisimme-pitaa-kaikki-kolme-kuljettajaa/

Tommi says he wants to keep all three current drivers :D

mknight

24th October 2019, 17:17

Well even with the low ammount of points from the 2 other drivers they still have very good chance for manu title.

So it is possible they can keep them, especially if they do well in Spain.

That said next year it seems likely that the competition will be closer (Citroën has lot of upgrades on the line and Toyota is seemingly starting to feel the effects of smaller wing) and at this point there likely isn't a free driver that would say no to Toyota.

Rallyper

24th October 2019, 19:36

https://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makiselta-yllattava-kommentti-haluaisimme-pitaa-kaikki-kolme-kuljettajaa/

Tommi says he wants to keep all three current drivers :D

If true, JML will have his full season. Maybe less paid, but still...

spiderem

24th October 2019, 20:12

so after 3 months of fafing around, conspiracy, theory and wild guess, basically next year's line-upS remains the same :)
Not sure what we will discuss between Australia and Monte Carlo. The wait will be long.

Allez Andruet

24th October 2019, 21:38

Not sure what we will discuss between Australia and Monte Carlo. The wait will be long.

We always have M-Sport and the debate about who they will run next season. And that probably won't be revealed before the Monte entry list gets published so there's plenty to talk about.

Got Mail

24th October 2019, 22:31

https://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makiselta-yllattava-kommentti-haluaisimme-pitaa-kaikki-kolme-kuljettajaa/

Tommi says he wants to keep all three current drivers :D

On the eve of a crucial event where he needs his drivers to perform he's not likely to say any different, is he?

25th October 2019, 06:30

We always have M-Sport and the debate about who they will run next season. And that probably won't be revealed before the Monte entry list gets published so there's plenty to talk about.

There will be Evans, Suninen & Greensmith, so really plenty to talk about! :)

AnttiL

25th October 2019, 09:51

There will be Evans, Suninen & Greensmith, so really plenty to talk about! :)

And Paddon and Tidemand and Latvala and Meeke and Rovanperä and Mikkelsen and ...

Norm75

25th October 2019, 11:00

And Paddon and Tidemand and Latvala and Meeke and Rovanperä and Mikkelsen and ...
I am not so sure Meeke, Rovanpera and possibly Latvala are going anywhere other than Toyota. Latvala on his day is very quick, but doesn't seem to like the direction the Yaris is going in, but maybe if Toyota don't win the Manu championship this year they go with Tanak, Meeke and Latvala with Rovanpera sharing 4th car with maybe Katsuta, maybe someone else, to try and steal points from rivals next year.
People write Meeke off, yes he is older (although hasn't stopped brits being fast in their 40's, Mansell, Dunlop for example) but he is quick, hasnt had that many crashes this season, wasnt far off Tanaks pace out of the box in first season at Toyota, and lets face it, is 4th. Best of the rest behind Tanak, Ogier and Neuville.

That said, given my 5 picks in the crystal ball thread, I would take my comment with a pinch of salt!

mknight

25th October 2019, 15:32

People write Meeke off, yes he is older (although hasn't stopped brits being fast in their 40's, Mansell, Dunlop for example) but he is quick, hasnt had that many crashes this season, wasnt far off Tanaks pace out of the box in first season at Toyota, and lets face it, is 4th. Best of the rest behind Tanak, Ogier and Neuville.

Best in what? Not points for sure, not team points either.
Atm he is 5th in Standings. Evans and Mikkelsen are doing 3 less rallies than him and still are ahead or around his points.

TypeR

25th October 2019, 16:02

Tänak to Hyundai?

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/146766/tanak-to-leave-toyota-for-hyundai

Tarmop

25th October 2019, 16:05

Umh, interesting timing.

And in the end, just a speculation with all the parties denying...something like "Tänak will stay at M-Sport".

Sulland

25th October 2019, 16:08

Ford need a top consistant driver for 2020, that also can develop the car further.

They will not get that without paying a salary. That is Malcolms catch 22.

er88

25th October 2019, 16:09

Tänak to Hyundai?

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/146766/tanak-to-leave-toyota-for-hyundaiWow

er88

25th October 2019, 16:11

Umh, interesting timing.

And in the end, just a speculation with all the parties denying...something like "Tänak will stay at M-Sport".David Evans has gone big on stories like Meeke to Toyota, Kalle to Toyota and now this, I doubt he does this if he isnt 100% sure

pantealex

25th October 2019, 16:12

David Evans has gone big on stories like Meeke to Toyota, Kalle to Toyota and now this, I doubt he does this if he isnt 100% sure

He has been wrong also quite many times...

er88

25th October 2019, 16:15

He has been wrong also quite many times...Yeah, but not as much as the Finnish/ Estonian press I think

TypeR

25th October 2019, 16:17

Yeah, but not as much as the Finnish/ Estonian press I think

They are as much wrong as foreign articles :D they don't know nothing themselves.. :D

er88

25th October 2019, 16:19

They are as much wrong as foreign articles :D they don't know nothing themselves.. :DProbably all as wrong as eachother tbf :D. Just think in regards to Toyota, Evans has been spot on in the last year or so

EstWRC

25th October 2019, 16:20

He has been wrong also quite many times...

Exactly. In 2017 he wrote Tänak set to stay in msport despite Toyota offer...

krissucool

25th October 2019, 16:22

He is not wrong this time.

What is Tänak thinking?

Tarmop

25th October 2019, 16:24

He is not wrong this time.

What is Tänak thinking?

About ECUs, powersteering, brakes, generators maybe...some money is also nice.:D

But why are You so sure?

krissucool

25th October 2019, 16:28

About ECUs, powersteering, brakes, generators maybe...some money is also nice.:D

But why are You so sure?

Life has shown, weird comment lately coming from anyone involved. It would seem to be way too late in the season for Evans to say something like that without having 100% info.

Seems quite clear.

Does Hyunday really have more money to offer even after paying Neuville? Really difficult car to set up and fit into as others have shown. Just such a weird change. From the fastest car that everyone seems to be jeoulous of with which he is probably going to be world champion.

cali

25th October 2019, 16:28

This actually explains the Shitroen scandal as Ogier is going Toyota and Citroën problably will pull the plug.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Tarmop

25th October 2019, 16:29

Naah...wouldn`t take the date seriously.

Fast Eddie WRC

25th October 2019, 16:30

That's a really big shout by Evans if there was any doubt.

Big shake up will be great for next year.

USER47

25th October 2019, 16:31

It would be especially weird retaining Neuville at the same time as Tanak. I don't see any of them settling with role of no.2 in this stage of their careers, and it could create some pretty toxic environment around the service park.:-D

krissucool

25th October 2019, 16:34

I know no estonian will like the news, but whether we like it or not will not make it less true.

Welp, will be interesting. At least nobody has to worry about Tänak/Toyota domination for years :D

Fast Eddie WRC

25th October 2019, 16:37

What a time for the story to break for Tanak, mid-rally and on the cusp of the Championship.

AndyRAC

25th October 2019, 16:42

If true, it will be entertaining to watch - and is likely to put Neuville's nose out of joint. Adamo's brief is to make Hyundai win; signing Tanak would be a major step for this.

mknight

25th October 2019, 16:46

Sounds quite incredible. But then again Loeb signing for Hyundai last year also sounded incredible.

If it's true I do see Ogier moving to Toyota and MSport staying as they are.

As mentioned the Tanak-Neuville-Adamo combination might be a recipe for huge explosion.

er88

25th October 2019, 16:56

What a time for the story to break for Tanak, mid-rally and on the cusp of the Championship.You wonder who has leaked the news, because someone has and the timing is very iffy (unless that is the intention?)....

Eli

25th October 2019, 16:57

So Citroen will just pull the plug, just like that? didn't Abu-Dhabi Racing say at some point in the past: 'see you in 2020'?

mknight

25th October 2019, 16:58

The timing would have been really strange if there was a big fight. But with Ogier's issues it's (almost) decided. So releasing it after Ogier hits the issues is not so bad. Though yes, waiting until the end of the rally would be better.
Then again maybe Evans is afraid it won't get much attention if Tanak is crowned champion after the rally and all news are full of it.

mknight

25th October 2019, 16:59

So Citroen will just pull the plug, just like that? didn't Abu-Dhabi Racing say at some point in the past: 'see you in 2020'?

Nobody said that...

We have
1. strong rumor that Tanak goes to Hyundai
2. weak speculation that Ogier then goes to Toyota
3. extremely weak speculation that Citroen leaves

Eli

25th October 2019, 17:01

Nobody said that...

We have
1. strong rumor that Tanak goes to Hyundai
2. weak speculation that Ogier then goes to Toyota
3. extremely weak speculation that Citroen leaves

I know, I'm just afraid they'll leave.

EstWRC

25th October 2019, 17:02

What a shitstorm this news broke here. Lol

krissucool

25th October 2019, 17:10

The fastest driver in the world making a team change while close to his first title. Would be weird if it didnt create a shitstorm :D

mknight

25th October 2019, 17:21

My current reaction to Tanak signing for Hyundai rumor:

"What I am about to tell you sounds crazy but the longer I talk the more rational it's going to appear"

EstWRC

25th October 2019, 17:39

Adamos answer to Estonian media : “if you want Tänak to Hyundai then you better start collecting money” then “ yes we have a deal with Tänak and I also signed Lewis Hamilton”

This guys is such a class:D

mknight

25th October 2019, 17:39

Well Tanak's media zone interview totally didn't dismiss the rumors. Just check his eyes when Becs is asking the question.

EDIT: Did he say he "was" teammate with Kris Meeke?

er88

25th October 2019, 17:39

Reading between the lines from Neuvilles interview, it seems like Tanak will be his new team mate...

Portimao

25th October 2019, 17:43

Neuville knows it, Tanak in Hyundai for sure.

EstWRC

25th October 2019, 17:46

I didn’t see it ? What was there so confirming ?

er88

25th October 2019, 17:48

Also this news ties in with Andreas Mikkelsen parting from his management team. Currently he's out on his arse and wouldn't have had faith in his (old) management team to get him a drive (after he failed to get a drive following VWs exit - when his stock was higher than it is now).

er88

25th October 2019, 17:49

EDIT: Did he say he "was" teammate with Kris Meeke?

Yep.

mknight

25th October 2019, 17:50

Well yes EVEN is seemingly not good at talking with Tommi (Mikkelsen at end of 2016 and Lappi leaving last year) and basically doesn't talk to Malcolm.

Allez Andruet

25th October 2019, 17:51

Just when you thought it couldn't get any more silly

tommeke_B

25th October 2019, 17:53

If Tänak goes to Hyundai, all I can think of is that Toyota needs either Ogier or Neuville. Simple.

No need to bring up Mikkelsen, with or without Tänak at Hyundai, he'd be without a seat anyway.

Rally Power

25th October 2019, 17:55

You wonder who has leaked the news, because someone has and the timing is very iffy (unless that is the intention?)....

Probably, someone from the light blue team…

It’s striking how people reacted to this rumour, immedialty moving Ogier to Toyota while conveniently making Citroen disappear from the WRC…for the record: Citroen/Ogier 2020 extension deal was one of the first to be confirmed.

dimviii

25th October 2019, 17:55

finally maybe Kaiser knew about the Ogier move to toyota,so was easy for her to post this tweet?https://www.petrolheads.gr/images/smilies/smooth/crazy.gif

mknight

25th October 2019, 17:56

Probably, someone from the light blue team…

It’s striking how people reacted to this rumour, immedialty moving Ogier to Toyota while conveniently making Citroen disappear from the WRC…for the record: Citroen/Ogier 2020 extension deal was one of the first to be confirmed.

What "extension deal"? He signed for two years already in 2018. Only thing is that after Finland he confirmed he was staying for next year among speculations.

Fast Eddie WRC

25th October 2019, 17:58

Ogier still talking just now about the C3 tests and improving the car.

Neuville just seemed quite jokey about Tanak coming.

Nothing at all from Tanak either way to get any guide on the story.

TypeR

25th October 2019, 17:59

If Tänak to Hyundai, then I say Neuville won't stay there.. Ott won't be nr 2 no matter what..

mknight

25th October 2019, 18:00

If Tänak to Hyundai, then I say Neuville won't stay there.. Ott won't be nr 2 no matter what..

He would definitely stay for 2020 through the rest of his (well paid) contract.

EstWRC

25th October 2019, 18:01

If Tänak to Hyundai, then I say Neuville won't stay there.. Ott won't be nr 2 no matter what..

Neuville signed a new deal to 2021...

Rally Power

25th October 2019, 18:02

What "extension deal"? He signed for two years already in 2018. Only thing is that after Finland he confirmed he was staying for next year among speculations.

I remember reading at the time it was a 1+1 deal, but I won’t bother to check as it was already told by Ogier, Budar and Jackson that they will run together next year.

pantealex

25th October 2019, 18:03

Same Autosport did say month ago "No more talking between Hyundai and Tänak"... "No offers in table anymore"

Everyone of you were ok with that...

and now you trust them...

mknight

25th October 2019, 18:06

Actually this part would fit... no more talks a month ago.. then rumors about Tanak talking to Japanese (cause not happy with something in proposed contract)... then talks to Hyundai again (was also a rumor).

mknight

25th October 2019, 18:11

Well Adamo is denying it as much as he ever did.

tommeke_B

25th October 2019, 18:16

As team-boss this isn't the moment you want such news to break out. :)

Fast Eddie WRC

25th October 2019, 18:19

The deal could just be pending Hyundai winning the Manu's title and their head guys backing the team with more money.

er88

25th October 2019, 18:20

Well Adamo is denying it as much as he ever did.Ofcourse he might just have to say that.

However it could be true, as he was denying to Becs about speaking to/ meeting Tanak, not Martin ;)

mknight

25th October 2019, 18:21

Wut, the German guy on WRC+ saying that it would be "great" to have best drivers in same team.......sure cause VW in 2014-2015 with Ogier and Latvala was so great to watch.

krissucool

25th October 2019, 18:25

Ofcourse he might just have to say that.

However it could be true, as he was denying to Becs about speaking to/ meeting Tanak, not Martin ;)

Yeah, that was so crystal clear from the interview.

COD

25th October 2019, 18:41

Somebody has ”leaked” the Tänak news just in right time to mess with his head just when championship is about to be decided...

denkimi

25th October 2019, 18:43

Wut, the German guy on WRC+ saying that it would be "great" to have best drivers in same team.......sure cause VW in 2014-2015 with Ogier and Latvala was so great to watch.
latvala was never one of the best drivers. a good number 2, but never anywhere near a match to ogier.

EstWRC

25th October 2019, 18:44

Somebody has ”leaked” the Tänak news just in right time to mess with his head just when championship is about to be decided...

Exactly my thoughts man!

mknight

25th October 2019, 18:48

Somebody has ”leaked” the Tänak news just in right time to mess with his head just when championship is about to be decided...

Yes but messing with his head is achieved both if the news are true as well as if they aren't

robertr

25th October 2019, 18:49

Or...it was leaked by Tänaks' camp to mess with Neuville. In my mind such rumor is much more disturbing to current Hyundai drivers than it is to Tänak.

Fast Eddie WRC

25th October 2019, 18:54

If it's not true its a really malicious 'leak'.

Allez Andruet

25th October 2019, 18:56

latvala was never one of the best drivers. a good number 2, but never anywhere near a match to ogier.

So the logic is: not a match to a 6-time World champ = not one of the best drivers.

Thanks, but no thanks.

AnttiL

25th October 2019, 18:58

Wow, I was off the computers and phones for a few hours and things got super silly

Norm75

25th October 2019, 19:17

KKS

25th October 2019, 19:36

About ECUs, powersteering, brakes, generators maybe...some money is also nice.:D

But why are You so sure?
And about poor Finland performance and 24/7 understeering :/

Allez Andruet

25th October 2019, 19:43

Mäkinen was just interviewed on Finnish TV. Ofcourse he didn't confirm anything, but there's no doubt Tänak is leaving. I'd bet my house on the Hyundai move after seeing that.

wrc2017

25th October 2019, 19:49

Mäkinen was just interviewed on Finnish TV. Ofcourse he didn't confirm anything, but there's no doubt Tänak is leaving. I'd bet my house on the Hyundai move after seeing that.

Didn't see it coming
Now.
Ogier to Toyota
Citroen to exit

EstWRC

25th October 2019, 19:52

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHvfKMdX0AAC00_?format=jpg&name=small

Tarmop

25th October 2019, 19:53

Loeb, Tänak, Neuville, Sordo...they know how to build cars. There is a new i20 coming out next year, so i am pretty sure that they will build a new car.

mknight

25th October 2019, 19:54

Well it would certainly be something else than the leaving rumors which were everywhere in may-june.

EstWRC

25th October 2019, 19:55

Mäkinen was just interviewed on Finnish TV. Ofcourse he didn't confirm anything, but there's no doubt Tänak is leaving. I'd bet my house on the Hyundai move after seeing that.

What makes you so sure ?

Nobody answered my questions earlier.

KKS

25th October 2019, 19:55

and try and dominate Tanak who would be having to adjust to a new car, to lay claim to no.1 driver.
A smart move from Adamo seems. If you can't beat them - you should lead them. Signing Tanak, bring him bad car, fast driver on slow car = slow driver and than Neuville finally win WDC!
Tanak has fast car, no1, big money and than try to blame Toyota.. ah blah. He signed own end of career.
Same as Lappi last year. Got a fast car, hope for no1 at Citoren and got shit car and no2. Cleaver move! Tanak going same footprints.

"What an unfortunate rally-suicide" :(

EstWRC

25th October 2019, 19:59

Ott to Estonian media about being teammates with Neuville: “I have been teammates with Ogier, so I don’t see any problem being with Neuville. “

Tarmop

25th October 2019, 20:01

A smart move from Adamo seems. If you can't beat them - you should lead them. Signing Tanak, bring him bad car, fast driver on slow car = slow driver and than Neuville finally win WDC!
Tanak has fast car, no1, big money and than try to blame Toyota.. ah blah. He signed own end of career.
Same as Lappi last year. Got a fast car, hope for no1 at Citoren and got shit car and no2. Cleaver move! Tanak going same footprints.

"What an unfortunate rally-suicide" :(

Absolutely nothing you said, makes any sense at all. Adamo cares about titles, manuf. title first of all. He doesn`t hire drivers to fail in order to help Neuville grab a drivers title...and with what cost.

mknight

25th October 2019, 20:03

A smart move from Adamo seems. If you can't beat them - you should lead them.

For Adamo it's win-win situation either way if he gets Tanak. If Tanak is fast... good for Adamo, if he is not fast... he got one less competitor and the main points scorer at Toyota away.

I don't quite understand Tanak's motivation all that much though. Yes especially the Sardinia episode where Tommi seemingly prioritized keeping costs down over securing the win at all costs would matter. But still Hyundai is seen as a "risky" car with no guarantee for top performance on all rallies (and for all drivers). But yes it has improved since Finland this year.

Allez Andruet

25th October 2019, 20:03

What makes you so sure ?

You could see it in his face. And the way he was talking. He was talking in a very serious tone about how it's not good for the sport if one team has two of the star drivers (guess he meant the trio of Tänak, Ogier and Neuville) in its roster. You rarely see Mäkinen looking so serious and almost like defeated.

steve.mandzij

25th October 2019, 20:03

latvala was never one of the best drivers. a good number 2, but never anywhere near a match to ogier.Nonsense, he was runner up three times, easily the best of the rest for years, and at one moment likely the quickest on raw speed.

mknight

25th October 2019, 20:18

He was talking in a very serious tone about how it's not good for the sport if one team has two of the star drivers (guess he meant the trio of Tänak, Ogier and Neuville) in its roster.

Well he is right on that one.

atsiotras79

25th October 2019, 20:22

Tommi has the biggest budget. Your 1st driver’s contract ends. Why Tommi making a decision for 1st driver is ruled out?
What if for the same amount of money he could get Ogier?
Just thinking out loud...

Allez Andruet

25th October 2019, 20:22

Rough translation from Mäkinen's Finnish interview I was referring to:

If we assume Ott is going to Hyundai, in a way I’m disappointed because I have always said that it would be best (for the sport) if every team would have one star driver in its roster but this is tough business and I think Adamo has said that he’s only interested in their own success. I am maybe looking a bit more at the overall picture, that what would keep people interested (in rallying).

Duvel

25th October 2019, 20:26

If Hyundai are really hungry for Manu championship, if they don't get it this year, they know their biggest problem is Tanak in a Toyota.
Makes sense for them to sign Tanak and take away the threat of their biggest rival.

It may upset Neuville, but he would just have to come out the blocks as best he can as soon as the season starts and try and dominate Tanak who would be having to adjust to a new car, to lay claim to no.1 driver.

Would be curius to see if tanak would struggle on the same events.
I tink Neuville managed to squeeze everey last bit of speed out of that I20, even when the rally didn't suit him or the car

KKS

25th October 2019, 20:31

For Adamo it's win-win situation either way if he gets Tanak. If Tanak is fast... good for Adamo, if he is not fast... he got one less competitor and the main points scorer at Toyota away.

I don't quite understand Tanak's motivation all that much though. Yes especially the Sardinia episode where Tommi seemingly prioritized keeping costs down over securing the win at all costs would matter. But still Hyundai is seen as a "risky" car with no guarantee for top performance on all rallies (and for all drivers). But yes it has improved since Finland this year.
Even we have some problems with all cars here and there. It's not just #8 Toyota broke-up every time. #8 i20 will broke-up with same % of chance.

KKS

25th October 2019, 20:34

Would be curius to see if tanak would struggle on the same events.
I tink Neuville managed to squeeze everey last bit of speed out of that I20, even when the rally didn't suit him or the car
100% Tanak can easily make 2 or 3 WDC in next years with Toyota, but chose to play a gamble.
Interesting to see motivation to do that... money?

AnttiL

25th October 2019, 20:49

He has been wrong also quite many times...

Was he (David Evans) wrong about anything else than Tänak staying at M-Sport at the end of 2017? And that was a case of Tänak telling him face to face he will stay at M-Sport (at an M-Sport event)

Tarmop

25th October 2019, 20:55

Securing future in terms of running a manuf. R5 team is also quite tempting.

EstWRC

25th October 2019, 21:00

Allez Andruet

25th October 2019, 21:02

What comes to David Evans and his reputation, IMO this is totally different than case Tänak from late 2017. This is now about the sport's hottest name, and I find it really hard to believe that Evans would go and publish a story of this magnitude if he didn't know the source he got was for real.

mknight

25th October 2019, 21:18

I know this calculation has a lot of issues with them not taking points from each other, but just to illustrate how dominance might again look like:
- if you sum up manu points for Tanak+Neuville+Sordo+Loeb this year you get 455 points, 2 rallies before the end
- currently Hyundai in the lead has 340

- Highest ever recent score is Citroen in 2012 with 453, but that was with only 2 manu teams
- VW domination in 2014 was with 447 points

Not looking good for competition next year...

AnttiL

25th October 2019, 21:38

racerx1979

25th October 2019, 21:42

Actually no! Im assuming the Hyundai squad knows all of the details so this won't mess with their heads at all. If anything it messes with others and maybe Tanak if it's not true... time will tell, but TN not feeling any pressure about this. Loeb is enjoying his sleep without a worry in the world and Sordo is just hoping he does not have fuel or PS issues.

mknight

25th October 2019, 21:47

Is this with the two best of the bunch counted only?

No was just simple sum, a bit more advanced calculations by quick look on their placement gives:

419

That's still without Spain, and average score per rally is 25-30 points. So doesn't look much better.

Early days, but I hope it doesn't end like in 2014 when I stopped following WRC as it was pointless. (btw. I made similar scares about Toyota after last year, so obviously it does not need to happen)

Fast Eddie WRC

25th October 2019, 22:11

There could be a fear of Toyota not staying in WRC much longer if Tanak goes. They will have already achieved the Manu & Driver titles.

KKS

25th October 2019, 22:16

There could be a fear of Toyota not staying in WRC much longer if Tanak goes. They will have already achieved the Manu & Driver titles.
So in this case Citroen should leave already after 2004? ;)

Fast Eddie WRC

25th October 2019, 22:35

So in this case Citroen should leave already after 2004? ;)

Toyota competition against a Hyundai dream-team will be a bit harder, plus they wont have a young Mr Loeb.

spiderem

25th October 2019, 23:21

RaunoK

25th October 2019, 23:33

Is Ogier the biggest "winner" if Tanak moves to Hyundai?
Ogier can beat Neuville / Hyundai on any surface, or at least match the pace.
Hyundai is fast but not easy to master, only victory so far beside Neuville is Sordo. So Tanak will take time to master the car (longer than at Toyota I suspect).
Bottom line, next year Ogier and Citroen have a fair chance for a driver title.

They said pretty much the same about Tänak going to Toyota. Wasn't the case. And Hyundai has been more reliable and also faster lately, also Toyota's rear wing change seems to have cut some of their speed. Tänak developed the Fiesta Ogier won two titles in and made Toyota into what it is today, so there's also no doubt in his ability to understand and develop the car. It might seem crazy move, but if the rumors are true, I'm sure midway next season we'll see Neuville complaining about not finding the correct setup or rocks falling from skies and Tänak winning rallies in Hyundai.

stefanvv

26th October 2019, 00:40

I wondered what was that Tommi jabbering and Tanak/Ogier smiles in Wales post press conference ever since.

the sniper

26th October 2019, 00:50

There could be a fear of Toyota not staying in WRC much longer if Tanak goes. They will have already achieved the Manu & Driver titles.

I don't see Toyota leaving, particularly while Akio Toyoda is President. Hyundai and particularly Citroen of course look far more sketchy. Malcolm will hang on in there, hopefully anyway.

robertr

26th October 2019, 04:55

It is hard to be an Estonian rally fan these days...had a restless night with nightmares about Tänak's contract.

I think Tänak is leaving for almost Freudian reasons. He needs to have a father figure as he had one in Malcolm Wilson.

Tänak is not the captain/teamleader guy as Ogier is. While clearly the best driver atm, he has not been able to become the leader of the team. Both Meeke and Latvala seemed to think (at least until Finland) that they are nr 1 drivers in Toyota. And Mäkinen is too soft to give full support to Tänak.

In Hyundai, he will have to share the nr 1 spot, but Tänak knows that Adamo is really leading the team and willing to take risks and make severe decisions to support the main driver(s).

Ott Tänak and Markko Märtin are not idiots. They are not changing teams for a whim.

EstWRC

26th October 2019, 05:58

Of course they aren’t idiots. How do I say that, Hyundai offered quite a good “opportunity “ for Ott to be sure if he wants it or not.

Let’s see what he decided

AnttiL

26th October 2019, 06:02

There could be a fear of Toyota not staying in WRC much longer if Tanak goes. They will have already achieved the Manu & Driver titles.

No such fears at all. Strong manufacturer backing and Mr. Toyoda likes the sport himself.

dimviii

26th October 2019, 06:35

Of course they aren’t idiots. How do I say that, Hyundai offered quite a good “opportunity “ for Ott to be sure if he wants it or not.

Let’s see what he decided

EstWRC what are they talking at Estonian forums about the subject? do they favour the team change?

EstWRC

26th October 2019, 06:56

EstWRC what are they talking at Estonian forums about the subject? do they favour the team change?

no, nobody basically likes it, only like handful of people think it MAY be a good move.

but it was basically the same with the Toyota move, although not SO much dislike back then.

TypeR

26th October 2019, 07:03

many are also worried about the colours of the car/racing suit and fans merch also..

pantealex

26th October 2019, 07:39

Was he (David Evans) wrong about anything else than Tänak staying at M-Sport at the end of 2017? And that was a case of Tänak telling him face to face he will stay at M-Sport (at an M-Sport event)

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/145935/tanak-hyundai-talks-collapse-set-for-toyota

David Evans is publishing every scenario, so eventually he will get it right.
Remember that this time (yesterdays news) he is also saying that Ogier is coming to Toyota...
I´m still not believing but Tänak to Hyundai is possible ofcourse.

AnttiL

26th October 2019, 08:06

Remember that this time (yesterdays news) he is also saying that Ogier is coming to Toyota...

It was mentioned as ”rumors in the service park”, not as a headline

T16

26th October 2019, 08:13

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/145935/tanak-hyundai-talks-collapse-set-for-toyota

David Evans is publishing every scenario, so eventually he will get it right.
Remember that this time (yesterdays news) he is also saying that Ogier is coming to Toyota...
I´m still not believing but Tänak to Hyundai is possible ofcourse.

Like I said yesterday, I’m pretty certain Ogier’s wife wouldn’t be making such stupid statements if he was going to be driving for Citroen next year.

Portimao

26th October 2019, 09:26

If Tanak-Hyundai deal is done, then why is it still such a secret?

mknight

26th October 2019, 09:37

If Tanak-Hyundai deal is done, then why is it still such a secret?

Cause none of the two championships are decided yet.

tomhlord

26th October 2019, 10:32

He has been wrong also quite many times...

Examples, please.

tomhlord

26th October 2019, 10:32

It was mentioned as ”rumors in the service park”, not as a headline

Absolutely.

tomhlord

26th October 2019, 10:35

Every time David Evans breaks a big story like Meeke, Kalle or now Tanak people on this forum just don't get it. Like their annoyed they didn't find it out first? Weird.

With the whole Autosport business currently in a state of flux, we are lucky there's a paid journalist who can work on big scoops like this full-time. Savour it.

Mega news. Really spices up the driver market!

BobJones

26th October 2019, 10:40

Now it makes sense why Mikkelsen has had his management changes and was being paid by Pirelli to test tyres. Mainline WRC career over?

BobJones

26th October 2019, 10:51

Would be curius to see if tanak would struggle on the same events.
I tink Neuville managed to squeeze everey last bit of speed out of that I20, even when the rally didn't suit him or the car

Good point. Although I believe they have a new car on the way.

KKS

26th October 2019, 10:56

Cause none of the two championships are decided yet.
And how it's affect on it? If two championship wins by Citoren in 2019 (for example) how it coordinate to possible Ott contract with Hyundai?
Or you guess that at Tanak-Hyundai contract was something: "It's only valid when Ott didn't win WDC in 2019 with Toyota"? But it's complete bs

Contracts are signed or not. There no room for Schrodinger cats

mknight

26th October 2019, 14:48

And how it's affect on it? If two championship wins by Citoren in 2019 (for example) how it coordinate to possible Ott contract with Hyundai?
Or you guess that at Tanak-Hyundai contract was something: "It's only valid when Ott didn't win WDC in 2019 with Toyota"? But it's complete bs

Contracts are signed or not. There no room for Schrodinger cats

Obviously it does affect the drivers actually fighting for the championship when people are asking them all the time about it.

Similarly it might affect the mechanics/engineers at the teams even if they knew about it already. But I somehow doubt every single team member would know at this point.

mknight

26th October 2019, 14:56

Now it makes sense why Mikkelsen has had his management changes and was being paid by Pirelli to test tyres. Mainline WRC career over?

As we talked about yesterday I agree with half of the post.

It would make sense to change manager if he wants to try to drive at MSport, Toyota or even Citroen. As his former manager seemingly couldn't work well with Tommi, didn't ever want to bring any budget to MSport and already has Lappi at Citroen.

I don't put much into the testing part, even in the same team Sordo and Loeb have both driven full R5 rallies this year (2 for Sordo). Sordo also drove a rally last year.

the sniper

26th October 2019, 15:15

To me Mikkelsen seems like the most likely of the established guys being willing and able to bring a budget to M-Sport to get a drive. Probably feels he could do better in the Fiesta, still got a few years left in him so feels he might get back to a paid drive. Probably feels he's got something to prove. Given his past, I imagine he has the means to pay.

mknight

26th October 2019, 18:28

Btw. it didn't exactly look like Adamo was very angry on D. Evans during the evening service (see attachment, or from 17:25 onwards in the last "studio and service" section for Saturday)

T16

26th October 2019, 18:43

Btw. it didn't exactly look like Adamo was very angry on D. Evans during the evening service (see attachment, or from 17:25 onwards in the last "studio and service" section for Saturday)

For me, Adamo know the contract is signed and what better way to disrupt Toyota’s rally than let Evans break the news mid rally?

Myrvold

26th October 2019, 20:04

Now it makes sense why Mikkelsen has had his management changes and was being paid by Pirelli to test tyres. Mainline WRC career over?

EVEN have said they have no interest in paying for a WRC drive. I think Mikkelsens best shot on a continued WRC career is to pay for a drive. I think that is the main reason for the change.

AnttiL

26th October 2019, 20:04

.

I don't put much into the testing part, even in the same team Sordo and Loeb have both driven full R5 rallies this year (2 for Sordo). Sordo also drove a rally last year.

Yes, Hyundai also announced a development program for the R5 car

SubaruNorway

26th October 2019, 20:23

EVEN have said they have no interest in paying for a WRC drive. I think Mikkelsens best shot on a continued WRC career is to pay for a drive. I think that is the main reason for the change.

They said it was already planned several years ago, if the 4th driver in the championship has to pay for a drive something is wrong.

dimviii

26th October 2019, 20:54

"Is it a rumor, I do not know," tried to dodge Neuville with a smile. "He always said there were discussions and as long as he talks with the teams and he has not decided, we will not know."

"I always said it would not bother me," he added. "I've always been the fastest at Hyundai against all my teammates so I would say it would make it all right for me to have the same car as me."

Sébastien Ogier is also the subject of rumors. These speak of an arrival at Toyota. We asked him if he could confirm it.

"The rumors are to keep you busy, it's not my style to comment on them, so we'll let this rumor run," said the Citroën driver. "It's not these days that I have to make decisions, I'm in the excitement with this bad weekend, we'll think about a rested head."
https://www.rtbf.be/sport/moteurs/rallye/wrc/detail_tanak-chez-hyundai-ca-m-arrangerait-plaisante-neuville?id=10351667&fbclid=IwAR3OwKwfZIgK2Tsact3mGpjU4D7NBXIVarIEvVl8l lmZ72GPuYO2IeaStTI

mknight

26th October 2019, 21:12

If Tanak goes to Hyunai and Ogier to Toyota we definitely will have a 2 team championship.

Kradovech

26th October 2019, 21:56

Maybe it is true and maybe everyone concerned are trying out their best poker face infront of the cameras. Or maybe it is just a rumor and everyone is annoyed and/or having fun with the subject infront of cameras. It could be either. I will believe it once I see official confirmation, one way or the other.

For me biggest question is if Hyundai could afford to hire Tänak, Neuville and Loeb at the same time.

Mk2 RS2000

26th October 2019, 23:46

If Tanak is off to Hyundai what's the bet that Neuville has let MSport know that he has an out clause in his contract.

deephouse

27th October 2019, 04:32

For me biggest question is if Hyundai could afford to hire Tänak, Neuville and Loeb at the same time.

It's an investment. Tanak is hottest name out there right now and having him in the team is huge marketing plus. And they are developing new cars for WRC and R5 and still want to find the budget for two car team there so I think budget is not a question at all.

Allez Andruet

27th October 2019, 07:03

If Tanak is off to Hyundai what's the bet that Neuville has let MSport know that he has an out clause in his contract.

What kind of clause?

skarderud

27th October 2019, 08:29

Maybe Mikkelsen is ready for M-sport, he need to "restart" his career (or not, everyone know it's down to the car), a year in the fiesta for low salary or even for free, but personal sponsors to pay his salary, can be a good thing for him.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Fast Eddie WRC

27th October 2019, 10:51

denkimi

27th October 2019, 11:06

mknight

27th October 2019, 11:47

A Hyundai dream-team could be pretty bad for the WRC.

Citroen/Ogier are already struggling to compete with a lower budget and that inconsistent C3.

Unless he goes to Toyota (and then just for a year as he's supposed to be retiring) then the titles are a foregone conclusion.

I also think it's bad.

But I disagree on the second part. If Ogier goes to Toyota it will be even worse. I think he has a chance with Citroen after all the new changes finally get homologated for next year. However, if he leaves both Citroen and MSport will be just fighting their own fight for 4th place.

KiwiWRCfan

27th October 2019, 12:37

"Ott could win many more titles, if he is in the right car" Kris Meeke during short service prior to ceremonial finish

KKS

27th October 2019, 12:43

"Ott could win many more titles, if he is in the right car" Kris Meeke during short service prior to ceremonial finish
it could be sound like Ott leaving to Hyundai or staying in Toyota.

dnb

27th October 2019, 13:03

Ogier has a contract with Citroen for 2020 and recently again mentioned it's his last season.

steve.mandzij

27th October 2019, 13:04

it could be sound like Ott leaving to Hyundai or staying in Toyota.In other words, nothing we don't know?

Fast Eddie WRC

27th October 2019, 13:04

I also think it's bad.

But I disagree on the second part. If Ogier goes to Toyota it will be even worse. I think he has a chance with Citroen after all the new changes finally get homologated for next year. However, if he leaves both Citroen and MSport will be just fighting their own fight for 4th place.

Problem is Citroen's changes (if they work) are just to match the existing level of Toyota & Hyundai. But those two wont be standing still over the close season.

mknight

27th October 2019, 13:08

Without those changes Ogier was best out of the rest until Spain... even including 2 crashes (Sweden, Sardinia) and multiple punctures or small crashes (Argentina, Germany).

Oraamat

27th October 2019, 16:38

Some have started to speculate that Tänak might even do "Rosberg" after this season.

BobJones

27th October 2019, 16:52

Some have started to speculate that Tänak might even do "Rosberg" after this season.

They're wrong. He's signed for Hyundai.

BobJones

27th October 2019, 16:56

For me biggest question is if Hyundai could afford to hire Tänak, Neuville and Loeb at the same time.

There's a huge budget behind making the 'N' a well-known performance brand. You don't hire the head of BMW 'M' and give him a blank cheque for nothing.

There's a new i20 out soon with the first i20N hot-hatch too next year. WRC is good marketing for that.

There's a lot of money from R5, but mainly i30 TCR sales, which have been very strong to help give the motorsport division even more available funds.

In short, yes they have the money and the impetus.

Jakem

27th October 2019, 16:57

https://www.rtbf.be/sport/moteurs/rallye/wrc/detail_tanak-soulage-la-pression-m-a-joue-des-tours-je-realise-un-reve?id=10352231
Maybe monday tuesday we know more

mknight

27th October 2019, 17:02

There is an obvious list of possible conflicts coming at once at Hyundai:

What if he wants changes to the car that go opposite to Neuville and that can't be done without homologation jokers?
- a) Probably he will have the last say as reigning world champion. But what if that makes Neuville and Sordo much slower and therefore threaten manu champ?
- b) Or what if the changes are not really possible without changing the whole car? This applies especially on tamac as shown by Loeb/Mikkelsen

Let say no (drastic) changes are needed at start. It's still quite likely that Neuville will be as fast or maybe faster in first few rallies. But it's unlikely we will start to see strong n1 prioritizing at once, but that can in the end hurt the chances both have to the title as Ogier will benefit.

It might be that he only agreed to join if he is clear n1 from start, but b) could still be a problem.

For team dynamics it will be interesting.