2019 German GP - Hockenhiem

[Nitrodaze]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Hockenheimring%2C_April_29%2C_2018_SkySat_%28crop% 29.jpg

We return to the BOOT. HockenhiemRing as it is called is located in the Rhine valley near the town of Hockenheim in Baden-Württemberg Germany. In the Turbo era, it was a 6.832 Km (4.240 Miles) circuit carved into the Hockenheim forest. The circuit was redesigned by Hermann Tilke for the 2002 German Grand Prix after the F1 management requested that it should be shortened. Amidst protest for its change in layout, the new layout was reduced to a 2.7km layout that is reminiscent of a ladies boot.

Since the turbo era (1984 - 2013), Ferrari was the most successful team to win this race with nine wins, closely followed by the Williams F1 team with eight wins. However since the new layout in 2002, Ferrari has won it five times, followed by Mercedes with three wins and Redbull with two wins.

Kimi Raikonen currently hold the race lap record at 1:13:780 since 2004 in the Mclaren MP4-19B. The Red Baron, Michael Schumacher is jointly the most successful driver to race this track since the turbo era to date with Lewis Hamilton who have jointly won this race four time each. Alonso has won it three times. Sebastien Vettel is the only other driver on the current grid to have won this race, in 2013, his only win at the venue.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Hokenheimring_%282in1%29.png

Ferrari and Vettel return to the BOOT with a sour reminder of the unfortunate incident last season that saw the Ferrari and Vettel's hopes of winning the 2018 championship unravel in a spectacular fashion. The innocuous crash from a handsome lead that handed his closest rival the win of the race was a very bitter pill for Ferrari and Vettel specifically. Vettel returns with no grand prix win to his name in a season that is looking nightmarish for him. The Ferrari is typically very strong at this track, but the 2019 Ferrari is expected to give away performance at the tight corners on the lower half of the boot. But would excel in the fast straights at the top half of the boot. Could Vettel finally win a race for Ferrari in 2019 at this weekend. It would be a popular win if either Ferrari driver manage to put the Ferrari on the top step of the podium this weekend.

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/0rQpXJG6/s6/f1-german-gp-2018-sebastian-vettel-ferrari-sf71h-climbs-out-of-his-car-after-crashing-out-8662612.jpg

This race is expected to be very hot as it was at the Austrian GP. There are indications that the Mercedes may suffer cooling problems at this race. It would seem the battle for the top step shall be between Ferrari and Redbull. Ferrari would seem the favorite to win this race on paper, but the Redbull has found a way to get into Ferrari's hair, this season, hence l would not write off a Verstapenn win at this weekend.

https://www.sportschau.de/formel1/hockenheim-114~_v-gseapremiumxl.jpg

That said, l would not write off the Mercedes either. After Austria, l am sure they have gone back to base and worked out a solution for the hot temperatures experienced at Austria. To a certain extent, we go into Hockenheim somewhat unsure about who is going to win it.

One of the three DRS zones of the Hockenheimring track has been removed for this race weekend. The DRS zone on the pit straight has been removed. Mercedes would be running a white livery to commemorate 125 years of racing and their 200th F1 race. The white livery at the front shreds at the midpoint of the car into the normal silver livery at the rear of the car.

And the fine German Grid Girls to warm your hearts for this German GP.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/9382118-3x2-700x467.jpg

[Nitrodaze]

Sunday is expected to be cooler with a good chance of rain. If it turns out to be cooler or rainy, my money is on the Mercedes; maybe a Bottas resurgence.

[Tazio]

Boss will win if it is a proper wet race :stareup:............. with a weird livery! :dork:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EAUbMa-WwAAznBN.jpg

[Nitrodaze]

Gasly in trouble after a crash at the last 10 minutes of practise two. Horner seem upset about it, which may indicate that Gasly's days in Redbull colours may be drawing to a close.

Karun did his level best to stir things up with a very leading question. The sky lot seem to be advertising Alonso free of charge. A demonstration of the ugly side of British media [if one can call this journalism] that cannot resist meddling rather than observing and reporting. I agree there should be room for some speculation of what might transpire. But making comments or actions that could actively affect the chances of the subject is where l draw the line.

Observers Effect!

[N4D13]

Karun did his level best to stir things up with a very leading question. The sky lot seem to be advertising Alonso free of charge. A demonstration of the ugly side of British media [if one can call this journalism] that cannot resist meddling rather than observing and reporting. I agree there should be room for some speculation of what might transpire. But making comments or actions that could actively affect the chances of the subject is where l draw the line.
You can't blame Sky for trying to influence Ferrari. The Italians seem to hold them, particularly Karun, in very high regard, as we discovered with their appeal of Vettel's penalty at the Canadian GP.

[zako85]

Picture of the United States GP in Austin at turn 1, priceless.

[Nitrodaze]

You can't blame Sky for trying to influence Ferrari. The Italians seem to hold them, particularly Karun, in very high regard, as we discovered with their appeal of Vettel's penalty at the Canadian GP.

Actually, sky is trying to get Alonso into Gasly's seat at Redbull. I wonder what Honda has to say about that.

[Nitrodaze]

Picture of the United States GP in Austin at turn 1, priceless.

Well spotted!

[truefan72]

I really don't understand how Ferrari continue to embarrass themselves like this. Too bad for Vettel.

[truefan72]

Now Veratappen has issues. Smh

[N4D13]

Ricciardo was 0.033 seconds behind his teammate, but that difference translates to 5 places on the track. Jesus.

Also, Norris has looked terrible today considering that he got knocked out in Q1 while his teammate got through to Q3. Do we know if he had any issues or is it just one of these days?

[truefan72]

Ferrari are a joke. Shambolic by the team and another blown opportunity for leclerc. Alfa Romero and Haas make better use of tbe Ferrari engine. What an embarrassment.

[truefan72]

Ricciardo was 0.033 seconds behind his teammate, but that difference translates to 5 places on the track. Jesus.

Also, Norris has looked terrible today considering that he got knocked out in Q1 while his teammate got through to Q3. Do we know if he had any issues or is it just one of these days?
Yup. Norris is just off. Said in the interview that he simply didn't do a good job.

[The Black Knight]

Still no sense to the rage every time we come here and I realise how much they botched what used to be a fantastic race track back in the day. Morons replacing it with this piece of shite tarmac that’s there now.

Another Quali, another Ferrari implosion. Hamilton on pole for 4th time this year. Bottas a very long way behind - 3 tenths.

[Nitrodaze]

Still no sense to the rage every time we come here and I realise how much they botched what used to be a fantastic race track back in the day. Morons replacing it with this piece of shite tarmac that’s there now.

Another Quali, another Ferrari implosion. Hamilton on pole for 4th time this year. Bottas a very long way behind - 3 tenths.

This is probably the first race that l felt Bottas under performed. It was a really great lap by Verstapenn and it made Bottas look very ordinary in a Mercedes. It was a bit embarrassing for Mercedes if we go by the expression on Toto's face.

The old track was a scary death trap. It even scared the F1 establishment enough to force a change. German race tracks are where true racing courage are displayed. The chicanes of the old track marked places where drivers of old had been killed racing this track.

The race this weekend, is probably the last German GP race for some time to come. The F1 establishment have been unsuccessful at accomodating the challenges of the Hockenheimring management. There is unlikely to be a German GP in the 2020 calendar.

[Nitrodaze]

Ferrari are a joke. Shambolic by the team and another blown opportunity for leclerc. Alfa Romero and Haas make better use of tbe Ferrari engine. What an embarrassment.

It is interesting that the issues in both cars originated from Binotto's native department [PowerTrain Dept]. This is a major low, I think they would have to write off the 2019 season and move their focus to doing it right next season. I can say things were not as bad as this at any point of Arrivabene's tenure. With Haas and Alfa Romeo doing so well with the Ferrari enbine, it is a good indication that Ferrari did not go about their preparations for this race very well. And they got caught out by sloppy preparations of the powertrain on a weekend that they may have won the race if they could have started with at least one car on the front row.

Ferrari are not ready to be world champions. The bar is too high nowadays to achieve such a feat. However, it is interesting to see that Redbull are ramping up and are consistently giving Ferrari and Mercedes notice of their intentions to claim the top spot again.

[truefan72]

Still no sense to the rage every time we come here and I realise how much they botched what used to be a fantastic race track back in the day. Morons replacing it with this piece of shite tarmac that’s there now.

Another Quali, another Ferrari implosion. Hamilton on pole for 4th time this year. Bottas a very long way behind - 3 tenths.

Agreed. Both this track and the old zeltweg in austria are just horrible abominations of once glorious tracks. They could have made minor modifications to the old hockenheim but this current layout is disgusting.

[truefan72]

It is interesting that the issues in both cars originated from Binotto's native department [PowerTrain Dept]. This is a major low, I think they would have to write off the 2019 season and move their focus to doing it right next season. I can say things were not as bad as this at any point of Arrivabene's tenure. With Haas and Alfa Romeo doing so well with the Ferrari enbine, it is a good indication that Ferrari did not go about their preparations for this race very well. And they got caught out by sloppy preparations of the powertrain on a weekend that they may have won the race if they could have started with at least one car on the front row.

Ferrari are not ready to be world champions. The bar is too high nowadays to achieve such a feat. However, it is interesting to see that Redbull are ramping up and are consistently giving Ferrari and Mercedes notice of their intentions to claim the top spot again.

Yeah. It is clear that Arrivibene was the least of their problems. What's embarrassing is that they have a very good car under them andvit is just sheer incompetence that lets them dien time and time again. Lacks standards, ridiculous strategy calls. a lack of proper oversight. Poor decision making. Etc

[The Black Knight]

Yeah. It is clear that Arrivibene was the least of their problems. What's embarrassing is that they have a very good car under them andvit is just sheer incompetence that lets them dien time and time again. Lacks standards, ridiculous strategy calls. a lack of proper oversight. Poor decision making. Etc

What I find most embarrassing is that most of these bad strategy calls are plain as day obvious incorrect decisions that they do. I’ve been at races where, even as a spectator in the crowd, it’s obvious the decisions they have taken are wrong. Back in the day of Schumacher it was posssible to make these kind of decisions and get away with it on hunches but now with linited strategies available due to no refuelling and shite Pirelli tires, everything is data driven. Just look at some of the strategies they gave LeClerc like in China.

[journeyman racer]

I am expecting an unusual outcome today. Ferrari can still pull of a win if circumstances favour them, such as an opportune safety car period.

[airshifter]

Nice, a wet start to the race. I really want to see where some of the "young guns" stack up in the wet stuff.

It's been quite a while since we have had anything other than a dry track. This should be fun. I'm interested to see if Mad Max pushes hard at the start. That RB handles well, and with some of the performance margin out the window, I doubt he will be patient.

[gm99]

They don't even dare to start a race in moderate wet conditions nowadays. Wimps!

[truefan72]

They don't even dare to start a race in moderate wet conditions nowadays. Wimps!
Ridiculous. Can we get going?

[airshifter]

Ok boys, let's see who the current rainmaster is! I hope it stays wet enough to keep them on wets or inters for at least half the race.

[truefan72]

Verstappens poor start really cost gasly. Also an unsafe release from ferrari.

[gm99]

Gasly is totally useless in the wet!

[airshifter]

The RBs both got horrible starts.

Sorry Seb, Kimi is no longer your team mate and doesn't have to move for you anymore! :laugh:

Mercs have clear pace over Max.

[truefan72]

Williams mess the strategy up royaly. Not even splitting it just to see what happens. Oh well

[truefan72]

Team fine for ferrari????
Pathetic. Clear cut unsafe release. At minimum a 5 sec penalty. Stunning fail by the stewards

[gm99]

Team fine for ferrari????
Pathetic. Clear cut unsafe release. At minimum a 5 sec penalty. Stunning fail by the stewards

There is absolutely no consistency in the stewards' decisions.

[truefan72]

Ricciardo. Oh dear, renault. Smh

[truefan72]

If leclerc wins this race it will be controversial because of the lack of a proper penalty.

[truefan72]

Jeezuz Leclerc. Oh my gawd. Wowzer!!

[airshifter]

That drag strip may as well be ice. But with the lack of penalty, any challenge from Ferrari might have been controversial at best.

Holy crap, now the corner gets Hamilton! Even with pure luck to get into the pits, Lewis loses multiple positions.

[truefan72]

Its all kicking off now. Comedy of errors by mercedes crew. It was obvious he needed inters and yet they were unprepared. What a joke operation.

[truefan72]

I really fail to understand how an entire pit crew and strategist are so incompetent when me sitting at home immediately knew that he had to go unto inters

[gm99]

That drag strip may as well be ice. But with the lack of penalty, any challenge from Ferrari might have been controversial at best.

Holy crap, now the corner gets Hamilton! Even with pure luck to get into the pits, Lewis loses multiple positions.

I doubt that was a regular pit entry from Hamilton.

[truefan72]

Those stewards better not give hamilton a penalty for nursing in a damaged car into the pits safely. If they think he should have driven around another lap with a broken front wing and other potential damageis absurd.

[truefan72]

Pathetic by the stweards. Nuff said

[truefan72]

Bottas, as usual, has no pace. Smh

[truefan72]

Nico???
Oh jeez

[gm99]

What a shame for Hülkenberg!
Strange decision by Ferrari to pit Vettel for new inters during the SC.

[truefan72]

Ffs move that bloody renault. What the heck?

[truefan72]

Hamilton should not have listened to those strategists and gone in for slicks during the sc period. It was an idiotic decision by the strategists. Smh

[truefan72]

The fact that bottas can't overtake stroll tells you everythi gabout bottas. Shambolic

[truefan72]

Useless bottas,

[gm99]

The Haas idiots driving into each other again.
And Bottas out - looks like no points for Mercedes in the Mercedes Benz Grand Prix.

[truefan72]

Lol. A banner day for honda. A regretful day for mercedes.sadly the slow ass safety car will take a few laps. Ugh. I think kvyatt has a chance.

[Nitrodaze]

What a "edge of seat" race.

[Nitrodaze]

Lol. A banner day for honda. A regretful day for mercedes.sadly the slow ass safety car will take a few laps. Ugh. I think kvyatt has a chance.

With Kyvat and Albon aherad of Gasly, the pressure mounts further

[Nitrodaze]

Brilliant race for Vettel, 20th to 2nd, f**king brilliant

[gm99]

With Kyvat and Albon aherad of Gasly, the pressure mounts further

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Kvyat back in the Red Bull after the summer break.

[Nitrodaze]

I bow to Verstapenn. What a drive? Fantastic drive. After all, Mercedes are human, they can make mistakes but very very rarely.

[truefan72]

Congrats to verstappen, vettel and kvyatt. That penalty on hamilton was a bit ridiculous. But he did make a couple of errors along with shambolic pit crew and strategy. Bottas really blew it as well. Both in his drive and the championship. The best thing for both is that hungary is just a week away. These days happen.
There might be a driver change at rbr after budapest methinks. Redemption for vettel.
Still don't like stroll lol.

[truefan72]

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Kvyat back in the Red Bull after the summer break.

Yup

[truefan72]

Brilliant race for Vettel, 20th to 2nd, f**king brilliant
Yes. He did very well.

[Nitrodaze]

After a brilliant race like this on a historic track like Hockenheimring, one wonder how the F1 establishment can live with not having it on future F1 calendar.

[airshifter]

Brilliant drives by all three on the podium. Keeping out of trouble got them there, but on a day like today quite a few really good drivers didn't do that.

I loved the comment by Kvyat, a horror story with a bit of dark comedy.

[Nitrodaze]

Congrats to verstappen, vettel and kvyatt. That penalty on hamilton was a bit ridiculous. But he did make a couple of errors along with shambolic pit crew and strategy. Bottas really blew it as well. Both in his drive and the championship. The best thing for both is that hungary is just a week away. These days happen.
There might be a driver change at rbr after budapest methinks. Redemption for vettel.
Still don't like stroll lol.

Unfortunately, that penalty took some of the edge out of the fight at the front. It was definitely a more comfortable win for Redbull without Hamilton in the mix. I personally thought they would factor in the wet conditions into their deliberation and not dish out a penalty. What can l say about the stewards?

[Nitrodaze]

Brilliant drives by all three on the podium. Keeping out of trouble got them there, but on a day like today quite a few really good drivers didn't do that.

I loved the comment by Kvyat, a horror story with a bit of dark comedy.

How rain spices up races, this was block buster stuff.

Kyvat , a redbull seat now a possibility.

[Bagwan]

Still don't like stroll lol.

We've heard that .
But , he did OK this time out , didn't he ?

[Bagwan]

How rain spices up races, this was block buster stuff.

Was Bernie right about the sprinklers ?

[Nitrodaze]

Was Bernie right about the sprinklers ?

He he :-) yup

All those chaps who say there are no crashes in F1 anymore nowadays, got their wishes today.

[Nitrodaze]

How did Mercedes lose the plot today, l wonder?

I think their race unraveled when they put on the wrong tyres for their car by reacting to everyone else who were doing something different. Once again, the pitwall did not seek the opinions of the drivers. The tyre change was imposed on the drivers and they struggled with the tyres and crashed out. I find it strange that they are not engaging the drivers in the pitwall decisions anymore. It is a noticeable change at Mercedes of late.

[N. Jones]

What a crazy race. Nice to see someone from Racing Point in the points.

[Nitrodaze]

What a crazy race. Nice to see someone from Racing Point in the points.

I see what you have done there :-)

[N. Jones]

:D

[truefan72]

How did Mercedes lose the plot today, l wonder?

I think their race unraveled when they put on the wrong tyres for their car by reacting to everyone else who were doing something different. Once again, the pitwall did not seek the opinions of the drivers. The tyre change was imposed on the drivers and they struggled with the tyres and crashed out. I find it strange that they are not engaging the drivers in the pitwall decisions anymore. It is a noticeable change at Mercedes of late.

Couldn't agree more.

[gm99]

Both Alfas penalized for irregular clutch use during the start , so Hamilton scores two points and Kubica his first since 2010 and Williams' first this season.

30 seconds for 130-230 milliseconds off seem a bit harsh compared to no (time) penalty at all for an unsafe pit-stop release and 5 seconds for an irregular pit entry.

[N4D13]

To be honest, I didn't really enjoy the race, odd as it seems. There's no question that it was entertaining, of course, but I can't get past the fact that the outcome was decided by luck more than anything else.

Take, for instance, the fact that Leclerc, Hamilton, Sainz and Hülkenberg made exactly the same mistake, yet only two of them ended up beached in the gravel, the other two drivers being able to recover (and Sainz finishing an impressive P5); of course, the tarmac in that runoff being absolute crap didn't help things out either. Or the fact that Verstappen and Bottas did a single mistake each, both spins, but one went on to win the race and the other crashed out. And, of course, the fact that having got most of the strategy calls right or none at all before the last safety car didn't mean much, as evidenced by Kyvat and Stroll's finishing positions.

I also feel gutted for Bottas because, even if I don't like him as a driver that much, I believe that he got kinda mugged today. He was forced to spend a lap behind the safety car while everyone else pitted, which made him lose track position to Verstappen and some other drivers whom he had to overtake, which also was a contributing factor to his crash.

Still, again, this was a real thriller of the race, but you can't really say for certain that the best driver won today. Not having had Leclerc, Hamilton or Bottas on the top step of the podium was mostly a matter of luck than anything else.

Oh, and what an amazing recovery drive from Vettel. Not a single foot wrong and makes you wonder what could have been. Although my gut feeling is that he would have been caught in the same game of snakes and ladders that the top drivers were playing today.

[COD]

Was Bernie right about the sprinklers ?

Absolutely, this is what we need

[journeyman racer]

If that's what was needed. Why wasn't the race allowed to start at it's scheduled time?

[Big Ben]

I loved it how Hamilton asked his team what happened. They should have asked him if he missed the crash but obviously you shouldn't upset the delicate genius. Anyway, an entertaining race but I don't buy into all these "rain master" and "genius strategy" stories that come up after every wet chaotic race. There was a lot down to pure luck. The fact that that waste of a good seat Stroll ended up in 4th is proof enough.
And no, no sprinklers. It's still a retarded idea. Just as it was after a chaotic Canadian GP, the idea to make them race with shitty tires.

[Nitrodaze]

I loved it how Hamilton asked his team what happened. They should have asked him if he missed the crash but obviously you shouldn't upset the delicate genius. Anyway, an entertaining race but I don't buy into all these "rain master" and "genius strategy" stories that come up after every wet chaotic race. There was a lot down to pure luck. The fact that that waste of a good seat Stroll ended up in 4th is proof enough.
And no, no sprinklers. It's still a retarded idea. Just as it was after a chaotic Canadian GP, the idea to make them race with shitty tires.

I can see how Hamilton will be a bit puzzled. Mercedes were comfortably leading the race before the first safety car. It all went to pots for Mercedes after the 1st safety car. They were all over the place with strategy, tires and pitstops. They ended up out of position due to poor strategy and were on their back foot from then on.

Luck plays an important role in success. Rarely is success without some element of luck, especially in interchangeable condition as we witnessed at Hockenheim. It is typically identified by such phrase as "the race came to him" as it did for Kyvat and Stroll. To some extent Verstapenn. Vettel is the only driver on the grid that made his on luck on the day as he overtook his way to 2nd place from 20th.

[The Black Knight]

I can see how Hamilton will be a bit puzzled. Mercedes were comfortably leading the race before the first safety car. It all went to pots for Mercedes after the 1st safety car. They were all over the place with strategy, tires and pitstops. They ended up out of position due to poor strategy and were on their back foot from then on.

Luck plays an important role in success. Rarely is success without some element of luck, especially in interchangeable condition as we witnessed at Hockenheim. It is typically identified by such phrase as "the race came to him" as it did for Kyvat and Stroll. To some extent Verstapenn. Vettel is the only driver on the grid that made his on luck on the day as he overtook his way to 2nd place from 20th.

Vettel was driver of the day yesterday, without a doubt. It was the most impressive drive I can remember from him in over a year, so good on him. He's not performing at his usual level the last year so maybe this will be the beginning of a turnaround of form.

As for Hamilton, even after his 50 second pitstop, he could have still won the race. It was a very rare off day in the office for the 5 time WDC, as he was lucky to get away with his second spin and stay in the race. Bottas was not so lucky and smashed out after actually driving a pretty good race himself. Hamilton was perilous out front in the first stint, but once one mistake came the rest just kept on coming. Being ill probably didn't help. Asking where it all went wrong I think was perfectly reasonable. I can't understand why Mercedes didn't pit him under the safety car for new inters when he had his 5 second timed penalty, it made no sense to leave him out there. He also clearly stated on the radio that he thought inters were the correct tires to be on, not soft or super soft but the team appears to have taken that decision out of his hands. Perhaps in future they'll listen to the drive as inters on that occasion would have won them the race.

As it turns out after the race now, Hamilton scored two points as both Alfa Romeo's have been provided 30 second timed penalties for running illegal clutch settings at the start of the race. The gap is now 41 points at the top. Yesterday was Bottas chance to close the gap in the championship to under a race victory and he blew it unfortunately.

Verstappen was awesome as well again yesterday. Stroll just poxed into a good race position although I think he deserves some credit for the strategy as I think he was the one that requested it with the team. Hulkenberg could have had his podium today but blew it again.

I can't say that I found this race particularly exciting. Unlike Austria or Silverstone, I felt this was the worst of the three but it was still entertaining. Austria in particular was the best race to me.

It's probably too late for Verstappen to challenge for the title given the points gap but one or two more races like this for Mercedes and it can all turn on its head. RBR seem to me to be the second best package behind Mercedes out there now.

[Nitrodaze]

Vettel was driver of the day yesterday, without a doubt. It was the most impressive drive I can remember from him in over a year, so good on him. He's not performing at his usual level the last year so maybe this will be the beginning of a turnaround of form.

As for Hamilton, even after his 50 second pitstop, he could have still won the race. It was a very rare off day in the office for the 5 time WDC, as he was lucky to get away with his second spin and stay in the race. Bottas was not so lucky and smashed out after actually driving a pretty good race himself. Hamilton was perilous out front in the first stint, but once one mistake came the rest just kept on coming. Being ill probably didn't help. Asking where it all went wrong I think was perfectly reasonable. I can't understand why Mercedes didn't pit him under the safety car for new inters when he had his 5 second timed penalty, it made no sense to leave him out there. He also clearly stated on the radio that he thought inters were the correct tires to be on, not soft or super soft but the team appears to have taken that decision out of his hands. Perhaps in future they'll listen to the drive as inters on that occasion would have won them the race.

As it turns out after the race now, Hamilton scored two points as both Alfa Romeo's have been provided 30 second timed penalties for running illegal clutch settings at the start of the race. The gap is now 41 points at the top. Yesterday was Bottas chance to close the gap in the championship to under a race victory and he blew it unfortunately.

Verstappen was awesome as well again yesterday. Stroll just poxed into a good race position although I think he deserves some credit for the strategy as I think he was the one that requested it with the team. Hulkenberg could have had his podium today but blew it again.

I can't say that I found this race particularly exciting. Unlike Austria or Silverstone, I felt this was the worst of the three but it was still entertaining. Austria in particular was the best race to me.

It's probably too late for Verstappen to challenge for the title given the points gap but one or two more races like this for Mercedes and it can all turn on its head. RBR seem to me to be the second best package behind Mercedes out there now.

I agree, not an exciting race as such but one full of uncertainty and high unpredictability. It was dotted with instances of high emotional intensities as car after cars crashed out of the race or spun. At one point, anyone could have won it. For me, Silverstone was the best race of the season so far. But Austria was just as brilliant.

[The Black Knight]

I agree, not an exciting race as such but one full of uncertainty and high unpredictability. It was dotted with instances of high emotional intensities as car after cars crashed out of the race or spun. At one point, anyone could have won it. For me, Silverstone was the best race of the season so far. But Austria was just as brilliant.

Lost in the foray yesterday, was how much the Stewards bottled it with LeClerc's penalty. They imposed a fine on Ferrari yet in Monaco Max Verstappen got a 5 second timed penalty for an unsafe release. Those stewards should be fired and never allowed to officiate a race again.

When Bottas made his first stop, you can see the Mercedes mechanics looking around for the oncoming RBR and waiting to make sure that there was no unsafe release. There's no excuses for bottling it like that in the Stewards room.

An unsafe realise is an unsafe release and the penalty must be consistent every time.

[Nitrodaze]

Lost in the foray yesterday, was how much the Stewards bottled it with LeClerc's penalty. They imposed a fine on Ferrari yet in Monaco Max Verstappen got a 5 second timed penalty for an unsafe release. Those stewards should be fired and never allowed to officiate a race again.

When Bottas made his first stop, you can see the Mercedes mechanics looking around for the oncoming RBR and waiting to make sure that there was no unsafe release. There's no excuses for bottling it like that in the Stewards room.

An unsafe realise is an unsafe release and the penalty must be consistent every time.

I think this may be a new direction that the stewards want to take in the future. After all, it is the team that messed up releasing the car into another cars path. The driver has to rely on the team in that circumstances. Hence, one argument is that the driver should not be punished for the teams error. Hence on this occasion they fined the team and not punish the driver. But l think this is not an adequate punishment, as the teams would be happy to pay to make a beneficial infraction in the future.

I think a more effective punishment is to apply a ten second penalty on the team after the race and deduct the resulting points lost from the constructors points of the team. That would hit them harder than a fine and the driver is not punished in this scenario.

[The Black Knight]

I think this may be a new direction that the stewards want to take in the future. After all, it is the team that messed up releasing the car into another cars path. The driver has to rely on the team in that circumstances. Hence, one argument is that the driver should not be punished for the teams error. Hence on this occasion they fined the team and not punish the driver. But l think this is not an adequate punishment, as the teams would be happy to pay to make a beneficial infraction in the future.

I think a more effective punishment is to apply a ten second penalty on the team after the race and deduct the resulting points lost from the constructors points of the team. That would hit them harder than a fine and the driver is not punished in this scenario.

Mid season is not the time to make this kind of change though. It should be fair game throughout the season and the same for everyone. Why should Verstappen lose points now for Monaco? Depending on what time of the season you commit an infraction you either get a fine or a 5 second timed penalty. It's a complete and utter embarrassment. Consistency is all I ask from the Stewards and they continually move the goal posts. Fire them.

[airshifter]

Both Alfas penalized for irregular clutch use during the start , so Hamilton scores two points and Kubica his first since 2010 and Williams' first this season.

30 seconds for 130-230 milliseconds off seem a bit harsh compared to no (time) penalty at all for an unsafe pit-stop release and 5 seconds for an irregular pit entry.


And this is where the rules enforcement bothers me the most. There is a total lack of consistency, much less the proper (if any) regard to the advantage it created or the danger/risk on others it imposed. So maybe the Alfa's gained a second or two advantage on the start. In any case the advantage they gained was probably equal or less to the advantage gained by Leclerc's unsafe release, and in both cases the breach of regulations was caused by the team rather than driver. But the Leclerc release caused more danger to other drivers and people in the pits, yet no time penalty was given.

Most of these penalties should be black and white, and known in advance. Unsafe release is "X" seconds time imposed and a "X" amount fine, period. Missing the entry bollard should be "X" seconds if purely driver error on entry, or "Y" seconds for unusual circumstances as in the case with Lewis this race.

I like the suggestion made by Nitrodaze regarding unsafe release. Take away constructors points and/or drivers points, along with a fine that increases per penalty within a season. As pointed out in the Bottas example by TBK, safe releases can often cost time, but other teams manage them just fine most of the time.

[greencroft]

A more blatant example of an unsafe release without it actually ending in a collision I doubt you will see. The incoming car had not just to back off but stand the car on its nose to avoid the Ferrari.

As for separating driver penalty from constructor penalty, this is the thin edge of the sword as where would you draw the line? For example, the Alfas were given those clutch settings, it wasn't the drivers doing it.

So no, these guys compete as a team and should be penalised as such irrespective of where the error lies within the team. Yes, it would have been harsh on Leclerc but then his team should just work harder at their organisation and pit practices. Issuing a fine on a team like that simply puts a financial price on the unsafe release - a price pretty much all the teams would be q happy to pay for the gain it bestows.

[truefan72]

And this is where the rules enforcement bothers me the most. There is a total lack of consistency, much less the proper (if any) regard to the advantage it created or the danger/risk on others it imposed. So maybe the Alfa's gained a second or two advantage on the start. In any case the advantage they gained was probably equal or less to the advantage gained by Leclerc's unsafe release, and in both cases the breach of regulations was caused by the team rather than driver. But the Leclerc release caused more danger to other drivers and people in the pits, yet no time penalty was given.

Most of these penalties should be black and white, and known in advance. Unsafe release is "X" seconds time imposed and a "X" amount fine, period. Missing the entry bollard should be "X" seconds if purely driver error on entry, or "Y" seconds for unusual circumstances as in the case with Lewis this race.

I like the suggestion made by Nitrodaze regarding unsafe release. Take away constructors points and/or drivers points, along with a fine that increases per penalty within a season. As pointed out in the Bottas example by TBK, safe releases can often cost time, but other teams manage them just fine most of the time.

well said.

I think the Alfa Romero penalties were absurd, especially on the timing of it as well. I guarantee you that if it was mercedes, rbr or ferrari (especially ferrari) there would be no penalties given, perhaps a warning and then a statement about "better clarification of the rules". For a midfield team to lose 3 valuable points is a huge loss for what amounts to nothing in a wet start.

The Hamilton penalty really bothered me because it was unnecessary and callously took the mitigating situation not into account. As i said, did they want him to go around another lap with a broken wing and possibly falling pieces on the track, rather than enter the pits safely? He already lost a tone of time and positions with the accident, did his best to safely extradite his vehicle and himself from a potentially dangerous situation. Did so by not affecting anyone and allowing the race to proceed without additional safety car periods or issues, and yet they give him a penalty.

Don't get me started on the leclerc unsafe release stewards call?
Where they did the exact opposite and were completely deferential to the driver's situation.

so far in 2019 the real story has been the stewards.
Id rather the FIa focus on fixing that aspect instead of the constant reg changes which cost millions unnecessarily.
If you keep the regs the same and allow for further development, within a year or 2 most cars will be separated by less than 1.5 secs up and down the grid as it was by the end of 2008 after along run of consistency

[Nitrodaze]

A more blatant example of an unsafe release without it actually ending in a collision I doubt you will see. The incoming car had not just to back off but stand the car on its nose to avoid the Ferrari.

As for separating driver penalty from constructor penalty, this is the thin edge of the sword as where would you draw the line? For example, the Alfas were given those clutch settings, it wasn't the drivers doing it.

So no, these guys compete as a team and should be penalised as such irrespective of where the error lies within the team. Yes, it would have been harsh on Leclerc but then his team should just work harder at their organisation and pit practices. Issuing a fine on a team like that simply puts a financial price on the unsafe release - a price pretty much all the teams would be q happy to pay for the gain it bestows.

There are two separate titles being contested for, one is the constructors championship the other is a drivers championship. As there are two separate trophies given to the winning driver and team. Hence, it makes sense to separate the liability for infraction of the rules from driver and team. If a driver breaks the rules, very much as Hamilton did by not coming round the pit entry bollard, the FIA should punish the driver only for such an offense. It would not be fair to punish the team as well. That said, indirectly, the team may also be punished anyway, but this type of punishment forces the team to make the driver do better next time in the same situation.

By the same logic, if the operations of the team break the rules, one idea is to punish the team and not the driver. The problem here, is that the driver may have also gained an unfair advantage from the team breaking the rules as in the Alfa Romeo case. This is where the difference between the Ferrari penalty and the Alfa penalty differs. Leclerc may have gained an advantage for the dangerous release into the path of the Haas, but it was not an unfair advantage. While the clutch setting on the Alfa, gave both Alfa Romeos an unfair advantage at the start of the race. It doesn't matter what happened later in the race to negate the advantage gained.

From this line of thinking, we could say that fining the Ferrari team for unsafe release but not Leclerc makes very good sense. It also makes sense that the Afla drivers and the team were jointly penalized. I think the stewards were very spot on in these two instances. My only reservation is that, a fine is not a deterrent to teams with deep pockets. Taking constructors points off the teams would hit them harder.

[Big Ben]

If somehow the accident happened a little further he could have entered the pit lane on the other side I suppose because that too would have been more convenient. Rules are supposed to be followed only if convenient, right? He crashed and had to take a shortcut and received a 5 second penalty. Tough luck. Grow up!

[journeyman racer]

It was just a snapped front wing for Hamilton, he could've made it round another lap. It was hardly like Gillies Villeneuve at Zandvoort.


If somehow the accident happened a little further he could have entered the pit lane on the other side I suppose because that too would have been more convenient. Rules are supposed to be followed only if convenient, right? He crashed and had to take a shortcut and received a 5 second penalty. Tough luck. Grow up!

I wonder if I've interpreted this correctly. Are you facetiously saying to enter pitlane through pit exit?

Hahaha, that's a good one.

[Nitrodaze]

If somehow the accident happened a little further he could have entered the pit lane on the other side I suppose because that too would have been more convenient. Rules are supposed to be followed only if convenient, right? He crashed and had to take a shortcut and received a 5 second penalty. Tough luck. Grow up!

Judging by the chaotic nature of the wet race, l would have thought the stewards would have been a bit lenient for a minor infraction such as missing the pit entry bollard, especially as it was a safer course of action compared to driving a full lap to return to the pits with broken bits that might litter the track and potentially cause other accidents.

The stewards in this instance had the benefit of discretion on whether to impose a penalty or not. But chose not to employ the powers of discretion available to them. In this situation, the penalty in the rules apply and one cannot criticize the stewards for imposing it. Neither can we criticize the stewards for exercising their right to apply or not apply the powers of discretion available to them.

The general consensus was that, we were denied a proper duel between Hamilton and Verstapenn for the top step of the podium. The way Mercedes were tripping over themselves, chance are that may never have happened anyway.

[airshifter]

If somehow the accident happened a little further he could have entered the pit lane on the other side I suppose because that too would have been more convenient. Rules are supposed to be followed only if convenient, right? He crashed and had to take a shortcut and received a 5 second penalty. Tough luck. Grow up!

I personally thought the imposed penalty was too lenient. I would prefer that they would have made it at least 10 seconds, if not more. The way I see it Lewis got off easy, as a trip around a wet track with half a front wing would have cost him a lot more time. But in this strange incident where he could make it to the pits, I would prefer that over the chance that he gets in the way of another car limping around the track.

[The Black Knight]

I personally thought the imposed penalty was too lenient. I would prefer that they would have made it at least 10 seconds, if not more. The way I see it Lewis got off easy, as a trip around a wet track with half a front wing would have cost him a lot more time. But in this strange incident where he could make it to the pits, I would prefer that over the chance that he gets in the way of another car limping around the track.

As it turns out Lewis probably did the worst thing he could have done for his race. I doubt very much he would have lost a minute going around the track while his mechanics got ready. He would have probably ended up in the same place on track regardless, minus the 5 seconds. That aside, the penalty was fully deserved.

[Nitrodaze]

In retrospect, Redbull winning two races in a massively Mercedes dominated season with Honda engines, shows how very far behind Mclaren was on the chassis front when they had the Honda engine. I think Mclaren was holding back Honda's progress, hence it was a real blessing for Honda that Mclaren parted ways with them. Having the opportunity go develop their engine using one of the very best chassis on the grid has really helped Honda to release the potential of their engine. And there is more to come obviously.

How many of us would have believe that Redbull would win a race in 2019 with a Honda engine before the start of this season? I think very few, but here we are.

It also appears that the Redbull chassis has been carrying the Renault engine further than it was really capable of. It is looking very unlikely that any Renault powered car would win a race this 2019 season. It was not missed that a few Renault engines has failed so far this season and there has not been a Honda engine failure that l am aware of. If any, not as many as the Renault failures l am sure.

[N. Jones]

No, I think it was the other way around. The chassis was good as it had grip and stability it was the Honda engine that just wasn't powerful enough.

[Nitrodaze]

No, I think it was the other way around. The chassis was good as it had grip and stability it was the Honda engine that just wasn't powerful enough.

It was the same generation of Honda engine in the 2017 Mclaren that propelled Gasly in the Torro Rosso to 6th place at the Baku race in 2018. With the flexibility offered by the Redbull chassis, a Redbull-Honda was able to win two races. What does that tell you?

[aykutbilir]

McLaren and Honda issue is a freaking mad home.
Mclaren insist they have the best chassis but they have the worst and they overlooked Honda.

What Redbull and Toro Rosso did is working with them under confidence.
Honda very much improved from the days of Mclaren for sure.


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[Firstgear]

Honda is doing better without McLaren.
McLaren is doing better without Honda.
So who was holding back whom?

[Nitrodaze]

Honda is doing better without McLaren.
McLaren is doing better without Honda.
So who was holding back whom?

2018 revealed their chassis was not as good as they lead everyone to believe. They have started to understand and improve their chassis in 2019. The 2017 chassis that Honda had to work with was definitely not as good as their 2019 chassis. The problem was, instead of taking a thorough objective analysis of what was the problem, they blamed Honda for all of their shortcomings. Yes the Honda engine of the period we are talking about was very unreliable but that was half the reason of why they were not performing better than they managed in 2017.

I would not read too much into the 2019 performance of the Mclaren chassis. They are fourth because Haas is unable to harness the speed of their chassis due to tyre issues. Renault has drifted backwards. And Racing Point has drifted backwards. But Mclaren has done a better job on the chassis front than Renault for sure. But l don't think the Mclaren chassis is as good as the Haas chassis when it is in its sweet spot, which happens only during qualifying incidentally. That said, the Mclaren in race trim is the best in the midfield after Redbull at the moment.