Renault, Ricciardo, Hulkenberg - Discussion.

[journeyman racer]

Sparked by and exchange with Nitrodaze in the French GP thread, and my newly acquired penchant for starting threads, I thought it was worthwhile to start a thread about this combination.

Since their return as a factory team, Renault have established themselves as the "best of the rest" in F1. The acknowledged 4th placed team behind the big 3 of MB, Ferrari, and RB. They've had a slow start to the season. But are now only 2pts behind McLaren in the wcc, pretty much off the back of one good race in Canada, where both drivers finished in the points for the first this season.

Daniel Ricciardo is was big inclusion this year, to much conjecture by the fans. Regardless of the reasons why he moved, he started out being a bit sloppy this season with clumsy moments in Australia, Bahrain and Azerbaijan. But he's followed up with a good weekend at Monaco (spoilt by wrong pit tactics), and a 6th in Canada.

But what was most notable in Canada was that he qualified 4th. This is the best qualifying result Renault have had since re-joining F1 in the hybrid turbo era, and their best qualifying since Robert Kubica was 4th at the 2010 Japanese GP.

Nico Hulkenberg has had a slow start to the year, with only two 7th places and 12pts to show so far (In comparison to the 32pts this time last year. But most alarmingly he's behind Ricciardo head to head qualifying 1-6, with a streak of 6!

I don't think anybody thinks Hulkenberg is anything other than a top quality driver/talent, so I would expect him to regain some form. But imo, I think he has a disadvantage in that Ricciardo has come from a from a top tier team, whereas Hulk has been stifled by running in mid range teams for 9 years.

[journeyman racer]

The thing with teams like Renault (best/better of the second tier teams), is that until they consistently produce results that say they're a genuine top tier team, you kind of can't judge how good/bad they based on outright results.

There's more variables that affect their outright results (Aggression from those behind them, adversity of those in front, whereas the top team are only affected by how bad they perform). So they way I look to see how they're going is with total amount of points finishes, and consecutive runs of points finishes.

Renault have had 5 points finishes so far. Sainz and Hulkenberg had 6 and 5 points finishes each at this time last year!

Ricciardo has been sloppy to start with, Hulkenberg seems a bit off, and the team haven't made the right strategy calls. But two consecutive points finishes, and a first double points finish in Canada, says to me they're starting eke back into form.

[journeyman racer]

A pretty good race from Hulkenberg. To end up 8th and ahead of Ricciardo is a cracking result. His best race even if it's not his best result. Has now equalled Ricciardo's points total despite having a worse season so far that Ric.

But for Ricciardo, a 1/10 unfortunately.

It was effectively a 1 lap challenge for Ricciardo. At the start of the last lap he was where he started in 8th. He was simultaneously in the position of being able to get an extra place, while being vulnerable to getting picked off by two guys behind him. That is a challenge the "Racing Gods" are throwing at him, and he failed.

The best he could've done was 7th, the worst was 10th. Somehow he's ended up 11th!

[The Black Knight]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/145388/ricciardo-engineer-loss-played-part-in-red-bull-exit

Hand me the violin, Danny. You got a new race engineer so you jumped ship 😂😂😂

[Nitrodaze]

Since their return as a factory team, Renault have established themselves as the "best of the rest" in F1. The acknowledged 4th placed team behind the big 3 of MB, Ferrari, and RB. They've had a slow start to the season. But are now only 2pts behind McLaren in the wcc, pretty much off the back of one good race in Canada, where both drivers finished in the points for the first this season.

For a start, Renault are not 2 pt behind Mclaren. They are a good 43 points adrift.

Check it out here :- https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2019/team.html

[Nitrodaze]

Renault's 2019 season has been a monumental disaster really. They are not just way of their 2019 target of 4th in the WCC tables, they are 6th with a fragile engine, with a poor reliability record and not showing signs of real improvement. From Ricciado's perspective, it is looking like a miscalculated risk; a nightmare that Ricciado is putting a brave face to hide. The point really is whether Renault can hang on to Ricciado with their current show of form. A similar sort of form by Renault in 2020 would be very detrimental to Ricciado's stock in the driver's market. Hence, he would need to see something tangible to suggest that Renault can recover and make good on their promise to him to ensure that they can keep him in their car in 2020 and beyond.

Personally, l think it would be daft for Renault to replace Hulkenburg who has been a reliable and consistent point scorer for them. But mainly because, Hulkenburg would be invaluable to Renault if Ricciado is poached by another team. That said, there has been rumours that Renault would like a french driver in one of their cars. Ocon came close to landing the seat alongside Hulkenburg before the Ricciado bombshell put paid to that idea.

If Renault dumps Hulkenburg, l can see him in the Haas in 2020. There is also a good chance that Hulkenburg may choose to leave anyway. A return of Ricciado to Redbull is not an impossible idea either.

[zako85]

When I saw the report on 2019 driver salaries published, my jaw dropped when I saw Ricciardo making something like 20 million euros (or was it dollars? who cares anyways). I am not saying that Ricciardo does not deserve it. What I mean is that Renault seems to have a big budget and willingness to get to the top, and yet they are fighting, barely, for the title of "the best of the rest"? And this is three years after the Renault takeover of this team. They might as well try to hire back Flavio Briatore because, despite all of his flaws, the people who run that place right now seem to have no clue.

[journeyman racer]

If Ricciardo didn't make errors in Australia, Azerbaijan and France, he'd likely have enough points to be 8th in the standings. That would be still be a good season and keep his reputation intact. It's his errors that have been costly. He's best to be a lot more conservative in amongst traffic for the rest of the season to make up for it.

[truefan72]

Well now that Ocon has secured the seat at Renault for 2020 ,the real question is what happens to Hulkenberg now/
Many speculate that he will move over to Haas and Grosjean will be shown the door.
But tbh the better option would be with Alfa Romero which could see potentially 2 seats become available for a solid car in 2020
If kimi retires then there is one seat, if he stays, surely Gio will be axed for mediocrity and Hulkenberg will be an instant upgrade.
Either way, I think Gio is cooked.
A kimi/hulkenberg lineup in a car that just keeps getting better in a 22 race season seems like a strong pairing.
Rather that than having to deal with KMag and an unpredictable Haas car.

[Nitrodaze]

Well now that Ocon has secured the seat at Renault for 2020 ,the real question is what happens to Hulkenberg now/
Many speculate that he will move over to Haas and Grosjean will be shown the door.
But tbh the better option would be with Alfa Romero which could see potentially 2 seats become available for a solid car in 2020
If kimi retires then there is one seat, if he stays, surely Gio will be axed for mediocrity and Hulkenberg will be an instant upgrade.
Either way, I think Gio is cooked.
A kimi/hulkenberg lineup in a car that just keeps getting better in a 22 race season seems like a strong pairing.
Rather that than having to deal with KMag and an unpredictable Haas car.

Ferrari like to keep things in the Ferrari family. Chances are they would replace Gio with another Ferrari academy driver such as Werhlein or Kyvat or a rookie from the F2 world into the Alfa. Hulkenburgs real chance of a seat is at Haas or Williams. Everywhere else seems locked down.

[Jag_Warrior]

Renault seems to be paying the price for years and years of under-investment at Enstone. While some of that isn't their fault, still, the infrastructure and personnel issues seem to be hampering their ability to make solid, lasting progress.

I like Hulkenberg. I was happy when he landed a ride with a factory outfit. I'm not sure what more they expected from him, but I'd say that this move is more about Ocon being a young talent than anything Nico did wrong. If Hulk winds up at Haas, I think that'll be good for both parties. I really feel like he'll be a more constructive addition to the team than Grosjean ever was. And Haas might be a good place for him to wind down his career. It's probably the best that he can expect at this stage.

[Nitrodaze]

Renault seems to be paying the price for years and years of under-investment at Enstone. While some of that isn't their fault, still, the infrastructure and personnel issues seem to be hampering their ability to make solid, lasting progress.

I like Hulkenberg. I was happy when he landed a ride with a factory outfit. I'm not sure what more they expected from him, but I'd say that this move is more about Ocon being a young talent than anything Nico did wrong. If Hulk winds up at Haas, I think that'll be good for both parties. I really feel like he'll be a more constructive addition to the team than Grosjean ever was. And Haas might be a good place for him to wind down his career. It's probably the best that he can expect at this stage.

Quite true. Hulkenburg got the wrong end of a French shuffle. There was a prior relationship between Renault and Ocon. He was test driver for them at one point l think. Him being young, French and available was a great appeal for Renault. It was a rotten deal for Hulkenburg but this is F1. I am sure Haas would be looking in his direction with interest. He would land on his feet l am sure.

[truefan72]

TBh I rate Hulkenberg very highly in terms of talent. It is a shame he has not been given a crack at a top team because he would surely be a race winner and challenging for a WDC as well.
Given a good car he is rapidly fast.
This is more of a failure of F1 in general than Hulkenberg that we only have 3 teams able to challenge for race wins. If they just keep the regs the same for a few years, sooner than later, the midfield will catch up to the top end and we would have a situation like 2008 where the entire field (or most of it) all were within about a second of each other. Also, we really do need another 2 teams on the grid. I'd offer Dams and Arden a nice deal to step up to F1. or any 2 F2 teams that are ready to step up.

I hope he exercises a bit of patience and waits to see what 2021 looks like. Just like kimi, he could come back and jump into a top team. To me there is no point going to Haas. He has done that kind of move his entire F1 career. Mercedes, Ferrari and RBR might have a seat for him in 2021.

[Marcco]

TBh I rate Hulkenberg very highly in terms of talent. It is a shame he has not been given a crack at a top team because he would surely be a race winner and challenging for a WDC as well.
Given a good car he is rapidly fast.
This is more of a failure of F1 in general than Hulkenberg that we only have 3 teams able to challenge for race wins. If they just keep the regs the same for a few years, sooner than later, the midfield will catch up to the top end and we would have a situation like 2008 where the entire field (or most of it) all were within about a second of each other. Also, we really do need another 2 teams on the grid. I'd offer Dams and Arden a nice deal to step up to F1. or any 2 F2 teams that are ready to step up.

I hope he exercises a bit of patience and waits to see what 2021 looks like. Just like kimi, he could come back and jump into a top team. To me there is no point going to Haas. He has done that kind of move his entire F1 career. Mercedes, Ferrari and RBR might have a seat for him in 2021.

I kind of agree regarding Hulkenberg, he kind of always ended up in wrong teams, but if he stops driving then his career is over, I would say.

[The Black Knight]

TBh I rate Hulkenberg very highly in terms of talent. It is a shame he has not been given a crack at a top team because he would surely be a race winner and challenging for a WDC as well.
Given a good car he is rapidly fast.
This is more of a failure of F1 in general than Hulkenberg that we only have 3 teams able to challenge for race wins. If they just keep the regs the same for a few years, sooner than later, the midfield will catch up to the top end and we would have a situation like 2008 where the entire field (or most of it) all were within about a second of each other. Also, we really do need another 2 teams on the grid. I'd offer Dams and Arden a nice deal to step up to F1. or any 2 F2 teams that are ready to step up.

I hope he exercises a bit of patience and waits to see what 2021 looks like. Just like kimi, he could come back and jump into a top team. To me there is no point going to Haas. He has done that kind of move his entire F1 career. Mercedes, Ferrari and RBR might have a seat for him in 2021.

Hulkenberg is a good driver but he's not top level. Ricciardo coming into Renault and effectively beating him straight away really shows that. Plus the amount of races he has had and opportunities he has had to get a podium and he still hasn't gotten one. His teammates have gotten podiums but he hasn't. There's a time when you have to just say, sorry nobody is that unlucky. He would have had his podium in Germany for example had he not binned it. Him leaving Renault is a situation of his own doing. But I'd rather him be on the grid than Grosjean, Stroll or Gasly any day of the week. What a waste of three perfectly good F1 seats they are.

[journeyman racer]

It's kind of funny when you see the two Hamilton fans have a disagreement.

I'm inclined to agree with truefan. Sure, TBK can puff his chest and say what a driver should or shouldn't have done. But I think Hulkenberg is a guy who's just spent too long in the ordinary teams. I think with some drivers, they need a shock of being compared to hardened guys who've run at the front to see where they're lacking.

Ricciardo's now 8th despite being sloppy so far this year. Of the "second tier runners", he;s produced the best qualying performance (4th in Hungary) and best performance in a race that was unaffected by changeable, unpredictable conditions (4th in Italy).

[Nitrodaze]

It's kind of funny when you see the two Hamilton fans have a disagreement.

I'm inclined to agree with truefan. Sure, TBK can puff his chest and say what a driver should or shouldn't have done. But I think Hulkenberg is a guy who's just spent too long in the ordinary teams. I think with some drivers, they need a shock of being compared to hardened guys who've run at the front to see where they're lacking.

Ricciardo's now 8th despite being sloppy so far this year. Of the "second tier runners", he;s produced the best qualying performance (4th in Hungary) and best performance in a race that was unaffected by changeable, unpredictable conditions (4th in Italy).

It must have been very satisfying for Ricciado to finally get a chance to stick it to Redull with a great race and finish ahead of both Redbull. But there is work to be done at Renault.

[journeyman racer]

Cost himself too many points with blunders in Australia, Azerbaijan and France.

[The Black Knight]

Grosjean and Magnussen are going to Be staying at Haas for 2020 it has just been confirmed. A crazy move considering how poor and inconsistent Grosjean has always been overall. This looks like bad news for Nico. Giovonazzi is set to retain his place at Alfa. That leaves the spare Williams seat and Red Bull beside Max as the only viable options. Realistically though, I think Kubica’s seat is his only real option now. I can’t see Williams retaining Kubica’s services after this seasons performances, especially now with Hulkenberg on the market.

[Nitrodaze]

Grosjean and Magnussen are going to Be staying at Haas for 2020 it has just been confirmed. A crazy move considering how poor and inconsistent Grosjean has always been overall. This looks like bad news for Nico. Giovonazzi is set to retain his place at Alfa. That leaves the spare Williams seat and Red Bull beside Max as the only viable options. Realistically though, I think Kubica’s seat is his only real option now. I can’t see Williams retaining Kubica’s services after this seasons performances, especially now with Hulkenberg on the market.

I am not surprised that Haas has retained their line up. The problem at Haas is not the drivers really, they are both aggressive racers and the sort of in-team competitiveness that would drive Haas forward if they stop crashing into each other. I thought Grosjean had helped Haas tremendiously in their progress. His decision to revert to their Australian spec car gave the team so much insight into their 2019 car. It is interesting to see that Grosjean in the Australian spec car was matching Magnussen in the latest updated car. Indicating that there are tons of untapped performance in that car.

I am happy for Grosjean really, it would have been a shame to lose him just as Haas is beginning to come good. That said, l am sure Hulkenbburg would find a seat for 2020, he is too good not to.