2019 Chinese F1 GP - Shanghia International

[Nitrodaze]

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Bad Lewis!

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Pot belly flying kung fu kick - My nickname for this track

The Shanghia circuit has one of the longest straights on the F1 calendar. With Ferrari's straight line speed advantage over the silver arrows in Bahrain, you could say Mercedes are set for an arse whooping. But we said that at Melbourne and Sakhir, but Mercedes somehow managed to pull an Houdini of a win at both occasions. You could argue that Ferrari was tripping on those occasions, hence the reason that Mercedes managed to win.

I suppose the question is how is Ferrari going to trip itself at China this time? If they don't, which of the ferrari drivers is your money on to put Ferrari on the top step of the podium for the first time this season? My gut say Vettel? But popular opinion would probably say Leclerc.

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[journeyman racer]

Amusing qualifying result. Bottas on pole (No, I'm not convinced this is a new Bottas). I'm sure MB are favouring him somehow or he's cheating. Also, Vettel qualified ahead of Leclerc. So people will have to wait at least another day to crap on Vettel's head.

[Nitrodaze]

I think we are set for a great race tomorrow. Ferrari are fast on the straights and slow in corners. Mercedes is slower than the Ferrari on the straights but faster in the corners. The top step of the podium is open to both Ferraris with an outside chance of a Redbull stealing it.

Once again, Bottas put out a fantastic showing at the front of the grid. He definitely means business this year. And goodluck to him. Leclerc is kicking himself as it proved difficult for him to find the pace that put him on pole in Bahrain out here in Shanghia. With the DRS being so strong this year, it could favor Ferrari for the win of this race. But my money is on Bottas to do the business this weekend. But l would not write off Hamilton for the win either.

[airshifter]

Interesting qually session, and I think there is a good chance many of the top 10 positions will be changing during the race. With the bunching up of cars for the final lap, I don't think the midfield positions are very representative of the pace. Really about the 5 bottom drivers (and Max) were at least put off in some way, and it probably compromised some laps.

At the pointy end of the grid, Bottas pulled it out and seemed stronger all weekend. I think it's tighter between the Ferrari drivers, but Seb had the final edge. With weather changes expected, I think the race pace might come down to who has the right setup for the cooler weather, and who has the grip and can make the tires work. Ferrari don't seem out of the battle yet, but chances are it will be hard for them to get into DRS range unless Merc gets the tire strategy or setup wrong for the weather.

Max might also be close enough to make some moves. With the qually problems, we aren't sure if he could have gotten more out of the car. But he's close enough to the Ferrari's that he might be able to find a way past them, or also get into the hunt if Merc stumbles tomorrow.

[journeyman racer]

A few hours to go til the race. I notice that both truefan and TBK haven't posted yet. I'm sure they will if Hamilton get the better of Bottas after the race.

It's interesting to note that Hamilton didn't get pole in his last attempt. Normally when he's in that position, he nails it.

But for however interesting qualifying is, the race results are going to depend on how the field forms after the first series of corners. Priority for tyre strategy won't be decided til t4 I reckon. So it's all in the balance til then.

[Tazio]

Good evening boyz! :wave:

[Tazio]

Freakin' Kvyat!

[Tazio]

Alright the boss!

[N4D13]

Quite the interesting start to the race. The cars in the right side of the track seemed to have a quicker start, so I wonder whether that was just a coincidence or the track conditions benefitted Hamilton, Leclerc et al.

That drive through penalty for Kyvat looked excessive to me. AFAIC, it was a racing accident which didn't deserve such a strong penalty. If he hadn't taken out both Maccas, he would have been OK, but I'm not sure that it's reasonable to give a ~20 second penalty over an innocent mistake.

Also, the Leclerc balloon seems to have lost a bit of hot air. This weekend he seems slightly slower than his teammate. It turns out Vettel is not quite as much of a slouch as some in the press pointed out after Bahrain.

And Hamilton looks much faster than Bottas in race trim. There was nothing between teammates in the first rows (barring the bulls), but differences in race pace are much more significant.

[The Black Knight]

Quite the interesting start to the race. The cars in the right side of the track seemed to have a quicker start, so I wonder whether that was just a coincidence or the track conditions benefitted Hamilton, Leclerc et al.

That drive through penalty for Kyvat looked excessive to me. AFAIC, it was a racing accident which didn't deserve such a strong penalty. If he hadn't taken out both Maccas, he would have been OK, but I'm not sure that it's reasonable to give a ~20 second penalty over an innocent mistake.

Also, the Leclerc balloon seems to have lost a bit of hot air. This weekend he seems slightly slower than his teammate. It turns out Vettel is not quite as much of a slouch as some in the press pointed out after Bahrain.

And Hamilton looks much faster than Bottas in race trim. There was nothing between teammates in the first rows (barring the bulls), but differences in race pace are much more significant.

Looking at the grid at the start of the race as they lined up, it seemed to me that there was an unusually large amount of rubber laid down the left hand side of the grid so it wasn’t a huge surprise Hamilton and Leclerc gained places.

Ferrari screwed Leclerc. After they swapped Vettel and him, it was very clear that Vettel was not quicker than him at all and he did not pull away. They should have then pitted Leclerc first to readdress the swap and cover off Max. I understand what they did, they decided to go with the four tile WDC who bottles it every time he is in the heat of battle but Leclerc had earned his position fair and square and should have been treated better at this early stage of the season. It’s only the third race of the season, not the third last one.

Agreed re Bottas and Hamilton. Bottas would have ended up well over ten seconds behind Hamilton had Mercedes not provided him the undercut. And in the last stint, Hamilton extended his advantage by a couple of seconds over a 4-5 lap period so I don’t think Bottas ever has his pace today.

It was fitting, I guess, that the most successful driver on the grid won the 1000th GP. A good GP but not a classic by any means.

[N4D13]

As far as I'm concerned, Ferrari did the right thing in pitting Vettel first. Had they pitted Leclerc first, I they could have lost both positions to Verstappen - Leclerc's might have already been lost the moment Max came in, as pitting immediately could have easily resulted in him leaving the pits behind Max. It was just very unfortunate that nothing seemed to go his way today with the strategy, but I doubt Ferrari could have done much differently.

The team's priority cannot be to protect the driver in 4th place, but rather, to ensure that the other driver finishes on the podium.

[journeyman racer]

Very brave of TBK to turn up after Hamilton won. Bottas made gains with the undercut, but he made further gains after Hamilton made his stop. It doesn't matter as track position seem to have a bigger effect than what is typical.

How fitting is it that the most successful driver on the gird wins the 1000th race? How lame can you be?

Also, where is this "fearsome" Ferrari Nitrodaze said they had, one which Hamilton had to look deep in his soul to overcome?

I saw a powderpuff Ferrari today.

[The Black Knight]

They protected the driver in 4th place when they swapped Leclerc and Vettel. Keeping Vettel behind Leclerc would have ensured Leclerc finished on the podium. Like I said, the swapping of positions would only be understandable towards the latter half of the season, not on the third race in.

It was also very obvious Vettel wasn’t any quicker than Leclerc after a couple of laps behind so they had plenty of time to swap them back again before Verstappen’s pit stop. They knew the risks when they made the decision and decided Leclerc was expendible.

[journeyman racer]

N4D13's interpretation of the situation is the correct one.

[N4D13]

Very brave of TBK to turn up after Hamilton won.
Don't be surprised if people fail to interact with you if you keep writing this garbage. I certainly won't do so again.

[Nitrodaze]

Unfortunately, Ferrari are not looking like Championship winning material once again. They have failed to take advantage of their performance advantage on these last three races. In this race the pitwall was sluggish and poor on the uptake letting the Redbull split their cars. They should have swapped Vettel and Leclerc sooner, not after Vettel had been badly hurt by being behind Leclerc for so long. When they finally did, they should have protected Leclerc from Verstapenn by stopping him so soon are they could after the Vettel stop.

Based on what l have seen today, Ferrari are looking like being very unlikely to win any of the championships this season.

[journeyman racer]

Good one, you hero. Where would the garbage be that I posted? I was the only one that had any semblance of interpreting the race correctly, as you could see on my second post itt.

People fail to interact with me? No one post here! How am I going to cope when the other sites I post on are 5-10 times busier that this? There are non-motor racing sites with a motorsport section that have bigger F1 thread that this one.

The lurkers of this site would much rather avoid my posts to read gems like yours in the Bahrain thread? "Err, I haven't seen a new Bottas." You were probably disappointed in my response in that thread because it means you couldn't take a swipe at him in this race (Which no doubt you would've loved to have done)

As far as TBK is concerned, he's probably cost this site a lot of potential members with his pathetic fanaticism. Whether Hamilton won by 5, 10 or 15secs, the effect is still the same. So there's no point in embellishing Hamilton and the win like he does.

Tazio offered a lot itt.

Where is truefan? Quick to like Tazio's post, but no commentary? Bottas' last stop was also 0.2secs quicker than Hamilton's. Obviously MB are favouring him...

Bottas was obviously so mentally destroyed in Bahrain, he took pole yesterday.

I'm going to like your posts from now on, regardless of how bad it is. (Or at least whenever I can remember to do so)

[Nitrodaze]

Gasly put out a better drive at this race but is still suffering from something. He did a great overtake of Kimi and kept the 2nd Redbull on 6th position where he is required to be by the team. Albon showcased his renowned overtaking ability at this race bringing his Torro Rosso from 15th to 10th place. Great drive.

It was also a great weekend for Ricciado, finishing as best of the rest behind the Redbull of Gasly in 7th. Kimi drove brilliantly as did Perez for Racing Point. Haas was disappointing at this race. But Williams can be a little content with knowing that they have very good reliability so far.

[Nitrodaze]

Quite the interesting start to the race. The cars in the right side of the track seemed to have a quicker start, so I wonder whether that was just a coincidence or the track conditions benefitted Hamilton, Leclerc et al.

That drive through penalty for Kyvat looked excessive to me. AFAIC, it was a racing accident which didn't deserve such a strong penalty. If he hadn't taken out both Maccas, he would have been OK, but I'm not sure that it's reasonable to give a ~20 second penalty over an innocent mistake.

Also, the Leclerc balloon seems to have lost a bit of hot air. This weekend he seems slightly slower than his teammate. It turns out Vettel is not quite as much of a slouch as some in the press pointed out after Bahrain.

And Hamilton looks much faster than Bottas in race trim. There was nothing between teammates in the first rows (barring the bulls), but differences in race pace are much more significant.

I agree Kyvat was unfairly punished. Especially as it appears someone crashed into him, hence the reason why he crashed into Lando.

[Zico]

Unfortunately, Ferrari are not looking like Championship winning material once again. They have failed to take advantage of their performance advantage on these last three races. In this race the pitwall was sluggish and poor on the uptake letting the Redbull split their cars. They should have swapped Vettel and Leclerc sooner, not after Vettel had been badly hurt by being behind Leclerc for so long. When they finally did, they should have protected Leclerc from Verstapenn by stopping him so soon are they could after the Vettel stop.

Based on what l have seen today, Ferrari are looking like being very unlikely to win any of the championships this season.



I might be wrong but suspect the Ferrari's will thrive again where its warmer. Not sure what the track temps were in China today but they looked really quick in testing in Spain... and again in Bahrain. On that subject... How many 'hot' races are in the F1 callender?

[zako85]

Despite Mercedes running away with 1-2, I found parts of this race entertaining.

First discovery was that Vettel neither could overtake his teammate without the team order, nor he could break away from Leclerc after this order. Botched pit strategy then made Leclerc lose his 4th position in Verstappen.

Two, Raikkonen shows good class by scoring good points for Sauber, I mean Alfa, in all three races so far.

Three, Gasly can't keep up with Verstappen, not even close.

Four, Renault is still hopeless. A massive gap to Red Bull.

Finally, Williams, are they trying to set some kind of a new anti-record this year?

[The Black Knight]

I might be wrong but suspect the Ferrari's will thrive again where its warmer. Not sure what the track temps were in China today but they looked really quick in testing in Spain... and again in Bahrain. On that subject... How many 'hot' races are in the F1 callender?

Oz was hot enough so I am not sure that will really make a difference. It’ll be interesting to see what happens when we reach Spain but it looks like Mercedes have built the better package. 7 kmph Straight line speed advantage isn’t enough if you lose all you’ve gained in the corners.

[airshifter]

Here we saw the huge difference between Merc and Ferrari. Not so much in pace, as I think the race would have easily been similar had Ferrari managed to qualify on top. But in strategy, both teams had the same start, with the lesser of the qualifiers getting ahead with a better start. But Ferrari immediately look at swapping drivers, do so, and find out Seb had nothing over Charles. Then later in the race when RB pits Max, they cover with Seb and then keep Leclerc out on track to try to give Seb a better push towards second. And in doing so lost the 4th place that they should have had. Merc on the other hand double stacked the cars to cover all possibilities.

It's a shame we didn't get to see Max and Charles battle at the end. That could have been a good on track fight.

As per usual this year, more real action in the midfield. A better race for Gasly, but even knowing how good Max is he has yet to have shown that he belongs in that seat IMO. Ricciardo had Hulks number, as well as Grosjean beating KMag, both seeming a bit lost this race in pace. Kimi once again lofts the Alfa up into the points, and some good battles along the way.

At this point Williams seem just hopeless. Getting put two laps down can't be part of the strategy?

[Nitrodaze]

Here we saw the huge difference between Merc and Ferrari. Not so much in pace, as I think the race would have easily been similar had Ferrari managed to qualify on top. But in strategy, both teams had the same start, with the lesser of the qualifiers getting ahead with a better start. But Ferrari immediately look at swapping drivers, do so, and find out Seb had nothing over Charles. Then later in the race when RB pits Max, they cover with Seb and then keep Leclerc out on track to try to give Seb a better push towards second. And in doing so lost the 4th place that they should have had. Merc on the other hand double stacked the cars to cover all possibilities.

It's a shame we didn't get to see Max and Charles battle at the end. That could have been a good on track fight.

As per usual this year, more real action in the midfield. A better race for Gasly, but even knowing how good Max is he has yet to have shown that he belongs in that seat IMO. Ricciardo had Hulks number, as well as Grosjean beating KMag, both seeming a bit lost this race in pace. Kimi once again lofts the Alfa up into the points, and some good battles along the way.

At this point Williams seem just hopeless. Getting put two laps down can't be part of the strategy?

This season, the Mercedes race strategist has been on top of his game. We normally criticize Mercedes for having the worst strategist in the paddock, hence credit where credit is due. Ferrari on the other hand seem to have a 2nd rate strategist. Attempting to back up Bottas to Vettel was never going to work. It was a wasteful use of Leclerc, l think. They should have pitted Leclerc on the lap following that of Vettel's to keep Leclerc ahead or immediately behind Verstapenn. Leclerc has the right to be unhappy with the Ferrari pitwall.

On vettel; it was clear after three laps of Vettel coming out of the pits behind Leclerc that he was faster than Leclerc. I think Ferrari gave Leclerc a fair chance to pull away or match Vettel's pace which he couldn't. Meanwhile, Vettels tyres were being chewed up behind Leclerc. Most of the edge of Vettel's tyres were wasted behind Leclerc. When he was finally allowed to pass Leclerc, most of the pace advantage had been used up giving Leclerc a chance to keep his position.

The closer racing aspect of the new regulation is not as effective as was proclaimed by the race promoters and the FIA. This is the reason Bottas drifted back to 5 sec plus. And the reason Vettel was unable to overtake Leclerc in thick of the race.

On Gasly, he is still not comfortable in that car. I think he would come good when he gets the car he wants under him. He did give Verstapenn a small fright at the start of the race as he almost took 5th but thought better of it when he was pushed wide by Verstapenn.

Renault is far from being the best of the rest at the moment. They seem to have drifted backwards from their pre-season testing pace. Haas also seemed abit lost at this race. Williams were simply embarrassing in the face of their achievement in the 1000 races history statistics.

This race exposed Mclaren's real pace. They have work to do.

[N4D13]

This race exposed Mclaren's real pace. They have work to do.
They may have work to do, but Sainz was matching Ricciardo's pace even though he was on older tyres. It's a shame that things have been going south for McLaren at any given chance, either by reliability issues or by Kyvat playing bowling on their cars, but pace-wise I doubt there's much grounds to criticize them. The car may well be the best of the rest, and was quick enough to get a shot for the podium in Bahrain after the Ferraris self-destroyed and Sainz was clearly faster than Verstappen, who finished P4.

[Nitrodaze]

They may have work to do, but Sainz was matching Ricciardo's pace even though he was on older tyres. It's a shame that things have been going south for McLaren at any given chance, either by reliability issues or by Kyvat playing bowling on their cars, but pace-wise I doubt there's much grounds to criticize them. The car may well be the best of the rest, and was quick enough to get a shot for the podium in Bahrain after the Ferraris self-destroyed and Sainz was clearly faster than Verstappen, who finished P4.

Fair point. Renault were not blisteringly fast either. The Mclaren seem on the verge to break through to a new plateau of performance but is hindered by reliability and an inconsistent qualifying pace. They both should be comfortably ahead of the Torro Rosso of Kyvat in the first place. You cannot use a moment in the race to speculate the outcome at the end of the race. There were hints of good speed but unlikely to be fast enough to be ahead of the Redbull. I would have enjoyed seeing Sainz give Ricciado a good fight for 7th but that was not to be.

They have work to do, as their goals should be to catchup to Redbull and pass them. As it is, they are not anywhere near that at the moment. That said, Mclaren is exciting to watch recently. There is so much promise and goodwill for them to do well this year. I hope they fully turn the corner and start to hassle the Redbulls and Renaults.

[N. Jones]

Someone somewhere said that Kubica is only at Williams because they need a good tester. I hope so because he is way off pace. Gasly is showing better so high hopes for him. I think LeClerc is getting jerked around at Ferrari.

[airshifter]

This season, the Mercedes race strategist has been on top of his game. We normally criticize Mercedes for having the worst strategist in the paddock, hence credit where credit is due. Ferrari on the other hand seem to have a 2nd rate strategist. Attempting to back up Bottas to Vettel was never going to work. It was a wasteful use of Leclerc, l think. They should have pitted Leclerc on the lap following that of Vettel's to keep Leclerc ahead or immediately behind Verstapenn. Leclerc has the right to be unhappy with the Ferrari pitwall.

On vettel; it was clear after three laps of Vettel coming out of the pits behind Leclerc that he was faster than Leclerc. I think Ferrari gave Leclerc a fair chance to pull away or match Vettel's pace which he couldn't. Meanwhile, Vettels tyres were being chewed up behind Leclerc. Most of the edge of Vettel's tyres were wasted behind Leclerc. When he was finally allowed to pass Leclerc, most of the pace advantage had been used up giving Leclerc a chance to keep his position.

The closer racing aspect of the new regulation is not as effective as was proclaimed by the race promoters and the FIA. This is the reason Bottas drifted back to 5 sec plus. And the reason Vettel was unable to overtake Leclerc in thick of the race.

On Gasly, he is still not comfortable in that car. I think he would come good when he gets the car he wants under him. He did give Verstapenn a small fright at the start of the race as he almost took 5th but thought better of it when he was pushed wide by Verstapenn.

Renault is far from being the best of the rest at the moment. They seem to have drifted backwards from their pre-season testing pace. Haas also seemed abit lost at this race. Williams were simply embarrassing in the face of their achievement in the 1000 races history statistics.

This race exposed Mclaren's real pace. They have work to do.

Completely agree on how things worked out with Ferrari. Once the swap was made, they should have been more on top of strategy once it was obvious Seb didn't have the extra pace. But instead they then further screwed Leclerc's race by leaving him out too long.

As for the closer racing, I think the new regs have helped some. It's just that at the front of the field the quickest cars don't have much to challenge each other in pure race pace.

[Nitrodaze]

I had a look at the Kyvat, Norris and Sainz incident again. I have to say, the stewards did not do much of an investigation there , did they. The penalty was a product of raw prejudice. Even Norris who was in the incident says it was a racing incident. That was a very poor showing by the stewards, very lazy poor work.