View Full Version : Petter Solberg - How good is he really?
raphael123
9th May 2007, 09:37
I know he has had a poor car for a long time now. And you have to admire his loyalty to the team (is he on a fat pay cheque?), however he does make an awful lot of mistakes for someone so highly rated. A bit like Gronholm, who whenever is pushing hard, seems to over-do it and spin or even worse crash.
The commentators this weekend were all banging on about 'ah poor Peter, bad luck again' when his car failed him - but his car failed him due to his driving error! Just because it wasn't an outright crash, it was still his action which resulted in his car failing on him.
I think Gronholm is better than Solberg, but it would be very tight. But I think if he was team-mate alongside Loeb these days, he would be well and truly beaten.
I know both Gronholm and Solberg are more popular than Loeb, but Loeb is without doubt a cut above these two great drivers. They are probably the only two drivers who could come close to challenging Loeb to be honest.
cut the b.s.
9th May 2007, 09:59
Petter has a great personality, he really is good at the PR end of things, manages to look like he is having fun and not wishing he were somewhere else like some others do, when things are right for him he is very fast but he seems unable to keep it all together when its not.
I rate him as a good driver, definitely not a 'great' driver, in fact hes is one of the worst drivers ever to win the the title World Rally Champion IMO
I think Petter is a very good and fast driver, and i also like him as person...he's very pleasant :up: Give him a competitive car and he will fight for the title again :D
how many time this has been discussed already. just wait until the year end and see if the team can get up to speed he could win a rally again.
but fine this is my opinion, marcus is a small amount better than loeb and could beat him with a right car. as for petter, i agree he could be less crashing sometimes, but the subaru is not up to speed so petter tries as hard as possible to compensate for that lacking which is why he makes mistakes. he's one of the worse driver which is why he had three runner up as well as the driver title.
in anycase its much more fun watching petter and marcus drive than loeb drive being so cool all the time. i don't watch rally to pick my one favorite hero and wait for opportunity to bash the rivals.
I think that opening message of this thread lacks larger perspective in its ratings. First of all I think that Loeb is the most complete driver in the wrc but I disagree in many respect. There is important factors to note:
A) Marcus just made wrc's record doing 15 consecutive points finnish. He has done one major error in last 15 races which is not much, IMO. We can guess why his reliability has improved with Ford.
B) Is Marcus better than Petter? Probably not. During 2005 they were equal with the same tyres and despite the fact that Subaru had (as they still have) considerable power-inferiority compared to 307 (appr. 15Hp). Maybe Subaru was otherwise better but I can hardly see that Petter was the weaker of those two.
C) During the year 2004 Petter had clearly the best outright speed in the championship. He would have won 7-9 gravel rallies if Subaru would have been reliable. On gravel he sometimes ridiculed Loeb and Grönholm. Of course Pirellis' tyre played some role in that succes (like in 2005 Michelin played crucial role in Loeb's superiority) but the situation certainly indicates that Petter was at least parallel to Marcus and Seb in that point. As Marcus has only became older and older it would be untenable to see that he has improved compared to Petter. Loeb, in contrary, is improved in my view from that year when he probably was inferior to Solberg in terms of actual gravel pace.
D) Nowadays Subaru is heavely inferior both to Focus and C4. Chris Atkinson was able to set very good times already in his rookie season. Now he is loosing to Petter perhaps even more than Sordo is loosing to Loeb. And Sordo in that point is scarcely faster gravel driver than Atkinson. Being open to see considerable car differencies (so typical in all major branches of motorsport) I would say that comparison to team-mates hints that Petter's pace doesn't shame compared to anyone. Of course we can note that team-mate comparison often include vulnerable presuppositions. That's how it is. But it's still better indicator than naive and unreflective preconcept that all cars are very close each other and consequently time-sheets as such tells the truth about forces of drivers.
E) It's worth to note that C4 has easely the best straight line acceleration. As they are nearly perfect also in other respects (driver and car's behaviour) the result is superiority. For some reason PSA-company's rally teams have always had superior acceleration (reported by drivers and clearly seen from virtual spectator every time). Last year Focus was better in corners than Xsara but straight line speed kept Xsara in contention. Now when C4 has the best straight line speed Fords are in difficulties because C4 is obviously very good also in corners.
D) One extra point about Petter: it has been very typical that since 2002 his team-mates have really struggled to be anywhere near. Mäkinen, Hirvonen and Atkinson have all lost some of their reputation when driving with Petter. For instance Hirvonen seemed utterly slow beside Petter but after he got Focus he seemed instantly quite decent and promising. It's usually said that Hirvonen just was not in home in Subaru but I would say that his "improving" was probably as much depending on how Subaru was overrated due to its superb driver and how Focus was underrated by lack of top-drivers.
I think that contrary to opening message of this thread which was full of "feelings" this post involves some argumentative substance. I hope that possible counter-responses do the same.
cut the b.s.
9th May 2007, 11:45
[quote="Finni"]
A) Marcus just made wrc's record doing 15 consecutive points finnish.
[quote]
One word, 'superrally'........
Mäkinen lost his reputation next to Solberg? I don't know, he was at age by then and BTW, Mäkinen beated all his team mates on Mitsubishi by far. I don't think you can say that :D
A.F.F.
9th May 2007, 11:47
Dear Finni.
Some members have not joined till recently to this forum so, if you want some argumentative substance in replies, I'd recommend you put links to prove your points, for instance, 307 having appr.max 15 hp more than Impreza at that time or C4 vs. Focus.
A.F.F.
9th May 2007, 11:49
Oh, and I btw refuse to believe Solberg outrallied Makinen off the calendar. I very much believe that Mäkinen's huge roll in Argentina put an end to it. He was totally different man behind the wheel after that. Before it, I didn't see Petter nowhere near Mäkinen in results.
Yes, ok, he didn't lost his ultimate and historical reputation but his current reputation went down. He looked really bad against Petter. By the way, he was younger than Grönholm is now.
cut the ball:
OK, this record is fuelled by superrally rules but one major mistake in 15 races indicates still some reliability in that era.
A.F.F
Unfortunately I am not able to find those old quotations about 15 Hp. It was said by Petter in norwegian newspaper. Through the years I have read from many sources that Subaru's boxer-engine is heavely inferior to PSA-teams (probably including some driver comments from wrc.com also). That shoudn't be overtly controversial issue because the same phenomenon has been seen from virtual spectator so often and so clearly.
As to Tommi I don't see that Argentina's crash was transforming to his career. To my memory Petter already had shown better speed in three previous rallies (Spain, Corcica and Cyprus). Tommi was good in Argentina also in 2003. Of course he had past his prime in that point. My point was just to add one piece to underline the fact how tough Petter has been to his team-mates.
Mäkinen lost his reputation next to Solberg? I don't know, he was at age by then and BTW, Mäkinen beated all his team mates on Mitsubishi by far. I don't think you can say that :D
We should not forget the positive influence Mäkinen had on Solberg and Subaru. Petter did often express that he god valuable advices and support from him. After losing his mentor (and maybe even more important: Someone senior who could express his points to the engineers and other involving in the car development), the performance of Solberg and especially Subaru has declined.
Daniel
9th May 2007, 12:39
I know he has had a poor car for a long time now. And you have to admire his loyalty to the team (is he on a fat pay cheque?), however he does make an awful lot of mistakes for someone so highly rated. A bit like Gronholm, who whenever is pushing hard, seems to over-do it and spin or even worse crash.
The commentators this weekend were all banging on about 'ah poor Peter, bad luck again' when his car failed him - but his car failed him due to his driving error! Just because it wasn't an outright crash, it was still his action which resulted in his car failing on him.
I think Gronholm is better than Solberg, but it would be very tight. But I think if he was team-mate alongside Loeb these days, he would be well and truly beaten.
I know both Gronholm and Solberg are more popular than Loeb, but Loeb is without doubt a cut above these two great drivers. They are probably the only two drivers who could come close to challenging Loeb to be honest.
Do you simply go into every forum and post something slightly controversial that will get people talking/arguing?
AndyRAC
9th May 2007, 13:05
Solberg's championship win was more Citroen losing it for Loeb than Solberg winning it. Doesn't take away from the fact that he's a top driver, I'd rate him behind Loeb and Gronholm.
I agree that Petter is not better than a dozen of drivers in WRC and is one step behind Groholm and two steps behind Loeb.
Petter Solberg is a very good PR and that give him some extra points in terms of visbility. Behind the weel is not between the best ones and the last tow years problems with Impreza didn't help him.
GigiGalliNo1
9th May 2007, 14:11
i cannot be stuffed discussing this.... Solberg is a great driver, a competitor to Loeb and Marcus... i think if no Loeb then Marcus and petter would battle their heads off in each rally (inclu other drivers of course) but sometimes it's the car, sometimes himself. so its a 50/50 why he cannot get the times up (consistently with out damaging himself in rallyes) but he has more enthusiasm to get a rally done, more personality then Loeb which is brilliant like Galli and Marcus and he's a top driver might i add to... i would like to see him continue with Subaru (add a bit of Gigi as a team mate, but Christina (from this forum) says "Noo" he should not in a Subaru, but I would like to see Petter out done by the Italian :) back again with the Italian tires too (which petter is not happy about) )
back to Mäkinen and petter....i was sad to see Mäkinen at a low stage in his career... i knew he should have retired early but he still randomly got 2-3 positions in rallyes but again more retirements and proffered him leaving after one season with Subaru i think he stayed with two?! i think after, tru that Argentinian crash that his car flew over a spectator was amazingly astonishing but did he slow down..... he did get out done by Petter but i would not like to see Marcus being out done by Mikko each round... or even Loeb out done by I forgot his team mate (hence not caring about Citreön) lol
just quoting Corny now after quoting someone else..... Mäkinen did not lose his reputation but lost his flare in the game... If Marcus perhaps continues like how he is this year,,, he will NOT go out on a low (example Mäkinen) but if next year he magically begins to perform not up to scratch it might become a bit of an embarrassment if I may put it that way.... but still....retire now (end of year) to miss out on under-performing in future years.
Solberg in a rally car would definately vhallenge Gronholm for the 2nd place
GigiGalliNo1
9th May 2007, 14:43
Solberg in a rally car would definately vhallenge Gronholm for the 2nd place
Solberg is in a rally car..... ?
Oh, and I btw refuse to believe Solberg outrallied Makinen off the calendar. I very much believe that Mäkinen's huge roll in Argentina put an end to it. He was totally different man behind the wheel after that. Before it, I didn't see Petter nowhere near Mäkinen in results.
Her is Mäkinens roll in Argentina, if somebody wishes to see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2r28Agvtlc
I have to say that Petter is a very fast driver, one of the fastes when he has got the right material. He is the kind of car talent you rarely get to see. First time I saw him was back at hin rallycross days (guess it was in 1996). No one was even close to beat him. Then I have a clear memory of his driving in sweden in 2005. That totally convinced me that he is one of the absolute top drivers. When you can see live that someone is the fastest, then you are really fast. That rally impressed me.
BUT IMO it seems that his very fast driving style is'nt very forgiving. He has no room for mistakes as he drives with a lot of understeering. So if the car is'nt handling right, he often ends up into the forrest. Could the change of rules regarding differentials have a big impact? I think so. If you drive understeering style, and debend on diffs to help you, then I guess you'll have a problem since 2006...?
fastboy
9th May 2007, 15:22
If you got Petter,Seb and Marcus together, give them the same car on a 40km gravel stage with 2 or 3 stage recces allowed.IN MY OPINION Petter would be the winner.BUT he is not consistent enough during a season,so i would put Seb and Marcus ahead of him in championship terms.
Petter will hopefully have the car next year to challenge them.If i was Subaru i would not bother testing or developing this car any further,but invest as much money from this years budget in to next years brand new Impreza.
Brother John
9th May 2007, 15:32
Fast is not enough, Where are the results from Petter afther 2003?
Yes he won a few rallys, i know.
White Sauron
9th May 2007, 15:33
If you got Petter,Seb and Marcus together, give them the same car on a 40km gravel stage with 2 or 3 stage recces allowed.IN MY OPINION Petter would be the winner.BUT he is not consistent enough during a season,so i would put Seb and Marcus ahead of him in championship terms.
Petter will hopefully have the car next year to challenge them.If i was Subaru i would not bother testing or developing this car any further,but invest as much money from this years budget in to next years brand new Impreza.
Well... As latest shakedowns show, Marcus sets the winner's pace on the 2nd or max 3rd pass. For Seb 3 is enough, max 4. But Solberg is used to make 4,5 or even 6 runs thorough the stage, but still loses to Gronholm and Loeb. So... Don't think he can win a 40km stage against Gro and Seb after just 2 passes through it.
Well... As latest shakedowns show, Marcus sets the winner's pace on the 2nd or max 3rd pass. For Seb 3 is enough, max 4. But Solberg is used to make 4,5 or even 6 runs thorough the stage, but still loses to Gronholm and Loeb. So... Don't think he can win a 40km stage against Gro and Seb after just 2 passes through it.
you really think that drivers use the shakedown to see who is fastest ???
Brother John
9th May 2007, 15:45
Change the name from this thread! ;)
Petter Solberg - How bad is he really? :D
White Sauron
9th May 2007, 16:12
you really think that drivers use the shakedown to see who is fastest ???
Oh course not! I just used it as an example of that we can't say Solberg will be faster than Gronholm and Loeb after two runs... past 2-3 years show quite different things.
A.F.F.
9th May 2007, 16:39
This thread is a fine example of that same old phenomenon this forum always does. You recall ?? I'm talking about that Hollywood-phenomenon. Meaning that driver, here on this forum, seem to be as good as his last rally was. This has happened to many drivers before Patter. Do you honestly think Petter's skills has disappeared somehow during the last couple of years ??? :rolleyes:
Jeez....
Patwrc
9th May 2007, 16:43
I am a fan of Petter since he joined Subaru 7 years ago. I think his personality and determination to win are the reason why I support him in such a long time. The only thing I want to say is, he deserves to win, or even winning the championship. I think he has done his best, but only the Impreza let him down in the past 3 years. It's not fair for Petter to shoulder too much ridiculously bad luck, it's just impossible indeed. In any case, he really deserve something better than now. The championship is almost out of reach for him, and that's disappointing, given the fact that he has been pushing so hard since 2006.
Daniel
9th May 2007, 16:46
This thread is a fine example of that same old phenomenon this forum always does. You recall ?? I'm talking about that Hollywood-phenomenon. Meaning that driver, here on this forum, seem to be as good as his last rally was. This has happened to many drivers before Patter. Do you honestly think Petter's skills has disappeared somehow during the last couple of years ??? :rolleyes:
Jeez....
I remember the same happened to Colin in early 2001 on the forum, then he started winning and then it was like “OMFG Colin is the best driver ever!!!!!” when weeks before they were criticizing him and saying it was all over for him. I’ll be honest and say I’m not Petter’s no1 fan but I don’t think Petter is any worse than he was in 2003. The car is mainly to blame BUT the car has brought out the worst in Petter. It has brought out the Petter than will overdrive a car and underachieve with regards to results. But when he has a car I’m sure things will be back to normal again.
White Sauron
9th May 2007, 16:56
I don’t think Petter is any worse than he was in 2003.
But was Petter that good back in 2003? Or maybe just Ford's and Peugeot' reliability used to let Martin and Gronholm down while they were leading rallies? Or Loeb, who was going to win the championship if not Citroen asked him to slow down on the last rally? No, I don't think Solberg was good even in 2003.
Shrike
9th May 2007, 16:57
I agree. The car takes a large amount of the blame and the rest is Petter making mistakes overcompensating for the car's inabilities. I believe if he were driving the Focus or C4 he'd be more consistent and give Marcus some competition for second place.
Daniel
9th May 2007, 17:01
But was Petter that good back in 2003? Or maybe just Ford's and Peugeot' reliability used to let Martin and Gronholm down while they were leading rallies? Or Loeb, who was going to win the championship if not Citroen asked him to slow down on the last rally? No, I don't think Solberg was good even in 2003.
No one wins a championship by not being good at least. 2nd place is still pretty darn good. I agree that Loeb should have won it but Petter still won and even if he'd finished 2nd it still means he's a good driver. Not the best in my opinion but still a good driver.
he is the only thing why i still watch wrc because his personality! When impreza will be better he is the only guy who can help gronholm to put much pressure to loeb and pass him. It is normal that he has so many spins,... because his car is not competiteve at all and he makes mistakes because he is driving 200% all the time.
koko0703
10th May 2007, 06:06
I can't really judge how Petter is doing now because his car is clearly inferior to Citroen and Ford. However Petter still has that willingness to give everything to win a rally even if his car has almost no chance of wining, and I think he'll be fast if the car is as good as Petter. Petter is not the best but among the top drivers today.
And IMO Petter should have won 2004 title but not 2003. In 2003, Loeb's off in Corsica cost him title, but in 2004 Impreza-Pirelli was the fastest. But it's already in history anyways.....
Tumbo
10th May 2007, 07:44
No, I don't think Solberg was good even in 2003.
His performance in Corsica after writing his car off in the shakedown would prove otherwise i'd say; but thats just me.
Sure someone like Loeb appears to be the more complete package but Solberg does still have talent - and was a deserving WC. Would love to see whether Loeb would stick around with Citroen if they were in Subaru's position. True talent is rated when the going isn't good but the team and everyone is down. The way that Gronholm pulled the wins in Finland with the 307 to me cemented just how talented he really was; no bulletproof 206 around him but an underperforming car that he drove to the limit on stages he knew.
As said earlier this has happened before to ppl and will happen again - think Gronholm in 03 but he stuck it out and look where he is now
Finni
10th May 2007, 07:51
Quite rare people think that Petter's 2003 Impreza was the best car in the championships. Also if we count that he was driving with Pirellis and loosing many asphalt points it's clear that his championship was well deserved.
In my view Petter's best show has been the year 2004. In that year Petter was fastest in most of gravel rallies. Just Subaru's poor reliability prevented him take more than five wins. That very impressive because Petter dominated with the car which had inferior engine. There is no way to see that he was weaker than Grönholm and Loeb in terms of gravel speed. Quite contrary if it's supposed that Xsara and 307 didn't have any serious shortcomings (though many would maintain that 307 had those shortcomings). Being dominating with clearly inferior engine requires that both tyres and driver were perfect.
teufel
10th May 2007, 09:17
Also if we count that he was driving with Pirellis and loosing many asphalt points it's clear that his championship was well deserved.
But thanks to Pirelli he won Corsica and came back to points in Catalunya on day3, if I remember well.
VodkaKick3
10th May 2007, 12:25
The WRC Cars are not suited to his style of driving nowadays. He is a very fast driver but he will end up like Mcrae out of a drive soon because of their driving styles IMO
turves
10th May 2007, 12:43
But was Petter that good back in 2003? Or maybe just Ford's and Peugeot' reliability used to let Martin and Gronholm down while they were leading rallies? Or Loeb, who was going to win the championship if not Citroen asked him to slow down on the last rally? No, I don't think Solberg was good even in 2003.
Also, wasn't it 2003 Turkey where Daniel Elena got his road-book wrong and they ran out of fuel? If they'd finished with just a few points from that Solberg wouldn't have been champion and Loeb would have 4 championships under his belt...
Corny
10th May 2007, 13:23
Just to read this 2003 stuff is even more interesting than following a 2007 event :D
The WRC Cars are not suited to his style of driving nowadays. He is a very fast driver but he will end up like Mcrae out of a drive soon because of their driving styles IMO
:rotflmao:
Priorat
10th May 2007, 14:34
So you think P. Solberg is not good enough, Grönholm is loosing speed because is getting old and watching Loeb is boring.
Why don't you leave your computer screens, go to the forests and stop writing nonsense.
Stay at a fast and tricky portion of a stage (forget hairpins and crossings), doesn't matter if it is snow, gravel or tarmac. You will see there is nothing between them in speed and balls and that the rest are far away.
Difference on the time sheets comes from the car in the straights and uphill sections.
Mickey T
10th May 2007, 15:01
The crash or incident happiness of both petter and chris relates largely to how difficult the impreza has become to drive.
look at the in-car and the drivers are constantly fighting the front end (last year), and this year they constantly fight the back end under brakes and have no confidence under braking.
they both say it is inconsistent as well.
putting quick stage times in the impreza, even according to the team management, comes at a far higher risk than in any other car out there.
this means that, when they are quick, they will go off fairly regularly. when they don't go off, they are slow.
tough spot to be in.
Stay at a fast and tricky portion of a stage (forget hairpins and crossings), doesn't matter if it is snow, gravel or tarmac. You will see there is nothing between them in speed and balls and that the rest are far away.
Difference on the time sheets comes from the car in the straights and uphill sections.
Downhill corners are in my opinion best way to see differences in drivers, brakingpoints and how much program they have to get out from the corner.
cut the b.s.
10th May 2007, 16:06
Sure the Impreza is a poor car right now, but when I think of great drivers in poor cars I keep thinking of Schumacher during his 1st season or 2 at Ferrari, the car was usually a bit of the pace and reliability was terrible, yet he drove the wheels of it every race and didnt make many mistakes, ok different sport but I do think Petter has put the car off too often, no one can dispute his speed, and I'm glad he is still in WRC, it would be poorer without him, but a real 'great' driver IMO would keep it on the road better
I dont think petter has done nothing wrong, he is number 1 driver in the team and his job is to win rallyes, nowdays he has to overdrive quite much to keep in pace and often goes off i think because of that, anyway its better to try to win than to settle for 4-6.
To compaire whos is fastest or best driver is difficult if they dont sit in the same car, if they happen to sit its very easy.
The crash or incident happiness of both petter and chris relates largely to how difficult the impreza has become to drive.
look at the in-car and the drivers are constantly fighting the front end (last year), and this year they constantly fight the back end under brakes and have no confidence under braking.
they both say it is inconsistent as well.
putting quick stage times in the impreza, even according to the team management, comes at a far higher risk than in any other car out there.
this means that, when they are quick, they will go off fairly regularly. when they don't go off, they are slow.
tough spot to be in.
You got completely right!!!
I continually rate Petter quite highly and it's quite evident that the last seasons' problem has been the car.
Simmi
10th May 2007, 18:36
He's top class and so is Phil Mills. A competitive Petter next year is ESSENTIAL for the WRC. The smile on his face when he's winning makes rallying worth watching.
jparker
10th May 2007, 19:26
Constant car problems are causing problems with Peter's consistency and speed. And that's not only seen in rallying. You can't get good at something if you don't practice without interruptions. To bad he has to deal with all that.
But on the brights site, it's a good experience how do deal with problems during rallies. It may serve him well in the future and prevent many DNFs.
Think he is currently overdriving the car as can be seen here:
http://www.rallylinkserver.com/bettiol/2007/11_argentina/imageFull14.htm
Think he is currently overdriving the car as can be seen here:
http://www.rallylinkserver.com/bettiol/2007/11_argentina/imageFull14.htm
:D :D :D
jidoka
13th May 2007, 00:23
Think he is currently overdriving the car as can be seen here:
http://www.rallylinkserver.com/bettiol/2007/11_argentina/imageFull14.htm
Pure class....
jaytee10375
3rd June 2007, 17:17
I know he has had a poor car for a long time now. And you have to admire his loyalty to the team (is he on a fat pay cheque?), however he does make an awful lot of mistakes for someone so highly rated. A bit like Gronholm, who whenever is pushing hard, seems to over-do it and spin or even worse crash.
The commentators this weekend were all banging on about 'ah poor Peter, bad luck again' when his car failed him - but his car failed him due to his driving error! Just because it wasn't an outright crash, it was still his action which resulted in his car failing on him.
I think Gronholm is better than Solberg, but it would be very tight. But I think if he was team-mate alongside Loeb these days, he would be well and truly beaten.
I know both Gronholm and Solberg are more popular than Loeb, but Loeb is without doubt a cut above these two great drivers. They are probably the only two drivers who could come close to challenging Loeb to be honest.
To be honest I really think Solberg has lost the edge and the fire in his belly.Take his WRC championship season back in 2003,fair enough Loeb was younger and less experienced than now but not by much and Solberg literally destroyed him during the weekend of the network Q.And as for him being alongside Marcus these days I'm afraid Solberg is a million miles behind,yes granted Gronholm makes loads of mistakes but he always has done,he's like Colin Mcrae as such in that he really doesn't know his or the cars limits and its not a 'past it' and out of date phase he has become,he has always been that way and like Colin also,when those over the top risks he takes pull off there is absolutely no stopping him,even Loeb.
Finni
3rd June 2007, 17:29
And as for him being alongside Marcus these days I'm afraid Solberg is a million miles behind,yes granted Gronholm makes loads of mistakes but he always has done,
In his Ford time Grönholm has not done more mistakes than Loeb in the same period.
White Sauron
3rd June 2007, 17:35
In his Ford time Grönholm has not done more mistakes than Loeb in the same period.
Yes, actually this year Marcus made even less costly mistakes than Loeb.
To be honest I really think Solberg has lost the edge and the fire in his belly.Take his WRC championship season back in 2003,fair enough Loeb was younger and less experienced than now but not by much and Solberg literally destroyed him during the weekend of the network Q.
I think you forgot one thing: In 2003 Citroen's goal was the manufacturers championship, and with the 2nd place that goal was achieved. Guy Frequelin didn't authorized Loeb to fight for the 1st place on the rally and the orders were to secure the 2n and the manu title.
In 2003 Solberg had the lucky of having a man that didn't fight with him on the last rally.
Daniel
4th June 2007, 09:46
I think you forgot one thing: In 2003 Citroen's goal was the manufacturers championship, and with the 2nd place that goal was achieved. Guy Frequelin didn't authorized Loeb to fight for the 1st place on the rally and the orders were to secure the 2n and the manu title.
In 2003 Solberg had the lucky of having a man that didn't fight with him on the last rally.
Definitely agree with you there JAM :up:
In 2003 Solberg had the lucky of having a man that didn't fight with him on the last rally.
In 2003 Petter was really lucky.
* Loeb running out of gas in Turkey
* His lucky choice of rain tyres in France
* Sainz crashing out in GB
* Burns got a brain tumour
* And finally Loeb got banned from driving for the title.
It pretty much looks like he did got all his luck in one year, and that pretty much explains his lack of luck in the recent years... :-)
Daniel
4th June 2007, 10:20
Lets not say that Burns getting a tumour was lucky for Petter. I'm sure Petter would rather have Burns alive than have that title....
Lets not say that Burns getting a tumour was lucky for Petter. I'm sure Petter would rather have Burns alive than have that title....
I agree. It would be better to say that his 2003 season was full of coincidences that played in his favour of Petter winning the title.
And the win at Tour de Corse was one of the keys for the title. He crashed his car on Thursday and was lucky to even to make it to the start. And without rain he would have been lucky to score points, but it rained almost during all the rally. And even at the Catalunya Rally he was out of the points, but it started to rain on the last day...
His title in 2003 looks about as lucky as Mäkinen's title in 1998. :p :
jonas_mcrae
4th June 2007, 12:03
well after grece I thin now Subaru is starting to get some juice out of the impreza, looking at the splits, Petter was really fighting Loeb for that second place during day 2, if it wasnt for the damper thing or whatever it was, I think he coul have finished 2nd. But again at least he finished 3rd instead of crashing
Corny
4th June 2007, 12:04
His title in 2003 looks about as lucky as Mäkinen's title in 1998. :p :
You become champion with your car uh?
A.F.F.
4th June 2007, 18:45
His title in 2003 looks about as lucky as Mäkinen's title in 1998. :p :
What was so lucky in Mäkinen's title 1998? In the end of the season he had most points :)
What was so lucky in Mäkinen's title 1998?
I hope you haven't forgotten, what happened 300 metres before the finish. ;) If there is a situation in motorsports than can be described with the words "luck" or "unluck", then that exactly was...
Priorat
4th June 2007, 22:16
I hope you haven't forgotten, what happened 300 metres before the finish. ;) If there is a situation in motorsports than can be described with the words "luck" or "unluck", then that exactly was...
Sainz was lucky to have the chance to win that championship because of Makinen was unlucky to find oil because he was first on the road because he had been the best along the year.
Not luck. Just everything got back to place.
A.F.F.
4th June 2007, 22:50
I hope you haven't forgotten, what happened 300 metres before the finish. ;) If there is a situation in motorsports than can be described with the words "luck" or "unluck", then that exactly was...
Like Priorat already told....
koko0703
4th June 2007, 22:55
In 2003 even if Loeb was allowed to attack on GB, I don't think Loeb would be able to catch Petter at that point. You should remember Loeb hadn't even won a rally on gravel at that point, and many of us were still not convinced whether Loeb was all-rounder or tarmac specialist. I'm not denying the fact that Petter was lucky, but I must say Petter was at his best during 2003 and the following season in 2004.
kleisj
4th June 2007, 23:20
Speaking to 2 Subaru guys I was told that in this 8 weeks gap before Finland is going to be a very tough testing period. One of them told me that Peter is still very hungry for winning and it was a good psychological boost their performance in Greece. I just hope they perform to this level for the rest of the year.
Sainz was lucky to have the chance to win that championship because of Makinen was unlucky to find oil because he was first on the road because he had been the best along the year.
Not luck. Just everything got back to place.
Best? Why? Sainz was superior almost all the season. Makinen was superior only on the last events. Did you forget that Sainz was first on the championship until the 12nd rally?
Retire 300 metres before the finish is really bad luck the the ones who retire. I think nothing compares to that.
About Solberg, as I always defended that he isn't between the best ones, i strongly believe that if Loeb had hable to fight, Solberg wouldn't have the title in his hands.
Speaking to 2 Subaru guys I was told that in this 8 weeks gap before Finland is going to be a very tough testing period. One of them told me that Peter is still very hungry for winning and it was a good psychological boost their performance in Greece. I just hope they perform to this level for the rest of the year.
After Acropolis i doubt if was only Solberg hungry for wining a rally, i think that all in Subaru are and all the fans want a Subaru victroy. Will be good to the championship and to a manufacturer who is on WRC since more than 10 years.
Brother John
5th June 2007, 10:36
Petter, Loeb, Marcus, Sainz, Makinen and ............more, luck ore bad luck, team orders ore not. What does it matter? It is the result that counts. :s mokin:
Over 32 years I follow rally and this will never change!
Change the rules, change the cars, change the drivers and what ever.....
For the first time in years I saw only the results and TV coverage a lot of hours after the rally and It was exciting like It used to be years ago! :up:
Rally remains splendid if there were more teams with good WRC Cars which are reable and can continue at least more then 350 km! :rolleyes:
Corny
5th June 2007, 11:07
Sainz said sometime: 'to become champion is very difficult, you have to be very lucky'
tells enough, doesn't it?
jidoka
5th June 2007, 21:09
At present in the wrc, he is the 3rd best driver. Out of the car in terms of pr, the best in the business....
jaytee10375
5th June 2007, 22:44
Yes, actually this year Marcus made even less costly mistakes than Loeb.
Lets not speak too soon on that one! :)
Sladden
9th June 2007, 10:18
Petter is a bit tricky to judge..
He has been in the same team for 7 years now.. 2000-2004 models were all competetive and drivers as I recall were happy with them.
But 2005-2007 neither competetive or driver friendly.
2000-2004 Petter was very quick...
2005-2007 Petter making mistakes and car falling apart.
I think he is VERY quick and can beat anyone in a last stage fight.
2003 Finland.. he bent the pedals on the last stage fight with Burns and won!! Pushing like crazy....and consequentialy crash sometimes.
I dont think he has REALLY deserved any drivers title yet. In 2003 Grönholm and Loeb was better overall.
About Mäkinen.. as some have said before Argentina 2002 he was really quick. It doesnt feel right to compare the Tommi with Solberg after that.. he was not anywere near his old speed.
Corny
9th June 2007, 10:27
Petter is a bit tricky to judge..
2003 Finland.. he bent the pedals on the last stage fight with Burns and won!! Pushing like crazy....and consequentialy crash sometimes.
GB 04 too!
But he always makes mistakes when having a fight
A.F.F.
9th June 2007, 12:01
GB 04 too!
But he always makes mistakes when having a fight
I disagree. Petter has won the duels too. In Sweden it was Marcus who made a mistake and crashed.
Corny
9th June 2007, 12:23
I don't mean fatal mistakes:P
Magnus
10th June 2007, 07:09
I think Petter is a very good driver, but not a Loeb. When talking abt Mäkinen it is important to remember that his last year with Subaru was filled with mech. problems and bad luck. Without studying the matter more thoroughly I am not sure you can say that Petter was faster then Mäkinen in 02. Regarding the battle with Bosse in Sweden one also has to remeber that Bosse was driving a whale.
A.F.F.
10th June 2007, 11:48
I think Petter is a very good driver, but not a Loeb. When talking abt Mäkinen it is important to remember that his last year with Subaru was filled with mech. problems and bad luck. Without studying the matter more thoroughly I am not sure you can say that Petter was faster then Mäkinen in 02. Regarding the battle with Bosse in Sweden one also has to remeber that Bosse was driving a whale.
And Loeb was driving Xsara so what is your point?
HG_Lancer
10th June 2007, 14:34
Petter does not need to be a Loeb in the first place, he could be the best and not being a Loeb. Different cars, different personalities, different styles..
Halvis
11th June 2007, 17:28
Petter is a bit tricky to judge..
He has been in the same team for 7 years now.. 2000-2004 models were all competetive and drivers as I recall were happy with them.
But 2005-2007 neither competetive or driver friendly.
2000-2004 Petter was very quick...
2005-2007 Petter making mistakes and car falling apart.
I think he is VERY quick and can beat anyone in a last stage fight.
2003 Finland.. he bent the pedals on the last stage fight with Burns and won!! Pushing like crazy....and consequentialy crash sometimes.
I dont think he has REALLY deserved any drivers title yet. In 2003 Grönholm and Loeb was better overall.
Petter had the necessary luck in 2003 to be WC. It could have been gone both ways.
What most people don't remember is that he in 2004 was clearly the fastest driver/car combo. More than 30 fastest stage wins more than Loeb if I recall correctly, but it was the "watersplash"-problem ++ car - so he lost too many points on car trouble to challenge for the title.
koko0703
12th June 2007, 05:53
Petter had the necessary luck in 2003 to be WC. It could have been gone both ways.
What most people don't remember is that he in 2004 was clearly the fastest driver/car combo. More than 30 fastest stage wins more than Loeb if I recall correctly, but it was the "watersplash"-problem ++ car - so he lost too many points on car trouble to challenge for the title.
I agree! If people call Petter's 2003 title was because of luck, I must say Petter lost 2004 title because of bad luck with watersplash. In 2004, Petter+Impreza was the fastest combination. Loeb was lucky that Impreza drowned every time went through water.
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