Which constructors have built F1 AND Indycar machinery?

[Giuseppe F1]

So far I have:

1. Dallara
2. Lola
3. Penske
4. Eagle
5. March
6. Ferrari
7. Lotus (Were the cars they ran at Indy in the 60s purpose built Indycars, or merely F1 cars set up for the oval?)
8. McLaren?

Anymore guys?

Plus, has any constructor built/run F1 and Indycar machinery in the same year?

Alfa Romeo and Porsche should be added to that list....with the qualification that the Alfa was probably the Ferrari chassis and Porsche dumped their own chassis for a customer March.

Also count Williams to a degree, as the Longhorn chassis was an FW07 that was 'doctored' to make it more suitable for USAC rules.

Mclaren did provide a chassis for Indy teams, although again I think it was a doctored version of an M23.

[ChrisS]

Reynard

they made the BAR chassis in 1999 and were also racing at CART

I also think Parnelli the team Andretti drove for in 75 was an indycar (or the pre79 equivalent) team

[Easy Drifter]

Cooper. They started it

[D-Type]

pre-WW1
Fiat, Delage (1914 winner), Mercedes (1915), and Peugeot (1911, 1916 and 1919)

pre "formula 1"
Duesenberg - the same chassis won both the French GP (1921) and Indy(1922), admittedly having acquired a Miller engine for the latter
Millers ran in the 1923 Italian and Spanish GPs and the 1924 french GP and at least oneof them ended up in Molsheim where Ettorre Bugatti took a long look at them
Maserati - remember the Boyle Special (1939 and 1940)
Mercedes Benz - a W163 competed unsuccessfully at Indianapolis in 1947-48
An E-Type ERA failed to qualify in 1947
The C-type Connaught fitted with a supercharger failed to qualify in 1962

post 'formula 1':
Brabham
BRP
Ensign
And a Kurtis-Offenhauser midget ran in the 1959 US GP
The Honda 300 used a Lola Indianapolis chassis, but they couldn't admit it at the time.

The Lotus cars were purpose built but had 'monocoque' tubs like the F1 cars

[codalunga]

Alfa Romeo and Porsche should be added to that list....with the qualification that the Alfa was probably the Ferrari chassis and Porsche dumped their own chassis for a customer March.

Mclaren did provide a chassis for Indy teams, although again I think it was a doctored version of an M23.

McLaren was a bonafide Indy constructor as well as team. Not sure how much was in common between the Indy and and M23. After dumping their 2708, Porsche switched to a "customer" March for '88, but note 1988 was the last year for "customer" Marches. They built cars exclusively for Porsche (89P and 90P) and Alfa (89CE and 90A) in their final two years. There was also a Lola Alfa in '90.

Lotus built but never raced the Winkleman (?) Lotus that was to be driven by Al Jr. Dunno if anyone has mentioned AAR...

[ArrowsFA1]

Ligier. IIRC their effort was based on the F1 Ligier JS21 from 1983, not a good foundation!! Kevin Cogan drove the car a couple of times in 1984 but soon gave up on it.

[syameese]

"7. Lotus (Were the cars they ran at Indy in the 60s purpose built Indycars, or merely F1 cars set up for the oval?)"

they were specially built - if I remember correctly the 1963 car was an upscaled Lotus 25

[ClarkFan]

Actually, the wedge-shaped McLaren M16 preceeded the M23 and won the pole at the 1971 Indianapolis 500 (Peter Revson) and the race in 1972 (Mark Donohue driving for Penske) before the M23 debuted in F1 in 1973. Perhaps the Indy car influenced the F1 car!

The degree of customization of the Lotus Indy cars changed over 1963-1965. The 1963 car (Lotus 29) was basically just a 25 expanded for larger fuel tanks and to hold the OHV Ford V8 - basically a souped-up Fairlane engine. The 34 was beefed up a bit more and featured a DOHC V8. The 38 was really purpose-built for Indianapolis in 1965 and was much larger than the Lotus 33 F1 car. In an interesting offshoot, the designer of the 38, Len Terry, joined Dan Gurney at AAR/Eagle and designed the Eagle F1 car using his work on the Lotus 38 as the base for that car. And the first AAR/Eagle design for Indianapolis was based on the Eagle F1 design, effectively putting the Lotus 38 back at Indy again and winning in 1968 with the first generation of turbo Offenhauser engines.

Racing does sometimes go in circles...even more so at Indy. ;)

And not only have constructors run in both F1 and Indy in the same year, they have won both the 500 and the WDC/WCC. Lotus swept both in 1965 and McLaren in 1974, while McLaren won Indy and the WDC in 1976.

ClarkFan

P.S. Cooper probably did the least customization to run at Indy in the modern era - simply bunged out the Climax 4-banger from 2.5 liters to 2.7 and ran their 1960 F1 car.

[codalunga]

Actually, the wedge-shaped McLaren M16 preceeded the M23 and won the pole at the 1971 Indianapolis 500 (Peter Revson) and the race in 1972 (Mark Donohue driving for Penske) before the M23 debuted in F1 in 1973. Perhaps the Indy car influenced the F1 car!

P.S. Cooper probably did the least customization to run at Indy in the modern era - simply bunged out the Climax 4-banger from 2.5 liters to 2.7 and ran their 1960 F1 car.

I didn't think there was a lot on common between the M16 and M23 given the timeline but am unfamiliar with cars that came later, such as the M24B Cosworth (that JR drove in 1979). Does anyone know of a connection between the M23 and later Indy cars? Just picked up that Gordon Coppuck, the M16 and M23's designer, was one of the designers of the March 90P ran by Porsche in CART. This one featured a turbo ahead of the engine and gearbox ahead of rear axle...

As for the Cooper, you are probably right but I thought I'd read although they did some initial testing with a F1 car they used a similar but beefier chassis to race.

[Giuseppe F1]

Was the Dallara Honda F1 chassis of 1999 actually designed by Dallara or did they merely build/construct a Honda design?

[ClarkFan]

Was the Dallara Honda F1 chassis of 1999 actually designed by Dallara or did they merely build/construct a Honda design?

I don't know the exact details, but Honda did have a design team in-house, including Dr. Harvery Postlethwaite (ex-Hesketh, Ferrari and Tyrell) and most of the Tyrrell F1 personnel. They didn't have fabrication capacity and may not have had any wind tunnel facilities in Europe, so Dallara could have had serious input in these areas. Honda pitched in the ideal of a works team when Postlethwaite died of a heart attack.

But, remember that Dallara ran their own car in the early 1990s as well.

ClarkFan

I don't know the exact details, but Honda did have a design team in-house, including Dr. Harvery Postlethwaite (ex-Hesketh, Ferrari and Tyrell) and most of the Tyrrell F1 personnel. They didn't have fabrication capacity and may not have had any wind tunnel facilities in Europe, so Dallara could have had serious input in these areas. Honda pitched in the ideal of a works team when Postlethwaite died of a heart attack.

But, remember that Dallara ran their own car in the early 1990s as well.

ClarkFan

Dallara only built and designed the car. It was commisioned by BMS Scuderia Italia.

http://www.grandprix.com/gpe/cref-lucgiu.html