W Series - Women Only Racing Series

[Nitrodaze]

We heard it was coming. And there were mixed feelings about it as many thought women racers should proved themselves in a mixed series among men. As Jamie Chadwick has done in the British F3 series to be the first woman to win a race in that series.

That said, such series which are typically dominated by men seem not to be a a great place for budding female drivers to nuture a budding interest and talent. If you are in the minority group of any society then you would understand this all too well. Hence, l think this series is a brilliant idea and we should embrace it with the same interest that we give any junior formula. I hope it attracts media interest enough for it to be televised, as l would like to see how this project progresses.

I think, if we see real gritty competition between the finest drivers the series has to offer, many would be converted and embrace women drivers for their talent. Besides, the races shall be grids filled with women, what can be hotter than ladies in racing suits..

[Starter]

Besides, the races shall be grids filled with women, what can be hotter than that.
A "me too" woman who just read that? :p

[Nitrodaze]

A "me too" woman who just read that? :p

:-) I mean well by my words.

And l think there is scope for a women only series in the motor sport world. There are all kinds of series out there, all mostly dominated by males. It is not segregation, it is just another series. The series would succeed or fail depending on the quality of the flock of female talent the management of the series is able to attract.

It is hard enough as it is, hence I hope the experienced female drivers support it because it would be a shame if it fails due to lack of women support.

[truefan72]

We heard it was coming. And there were mixed feelings about it as many thought women racers should proved themselves in a mixed series among men. As Jamie Chadwick has done in the British F3 series to be the first woman to win a race in that series.

That said, such series which are typically dominated by men seem not to be a a great place for budding female drivers to nuture a budding interest and talent. If you are in the minority group of any society then you would understand this all too well. Hence, l think this series is a brilliant idea and we should embrace it with the same interest that we give any junior formula. I hope it attracts media interest enough for it to be televised, as l would like to see how this project progresses.

I think, if we see real gritty competition between the finest drivers the series has to offer, many would be converted and embrace women drivers for their talent. Besides, the races shall be grids filled with women, what can be hotter than that.

At first I was not to keen about this because i thought it would, relegate women to only this series and further the stereo type of them not being "strong enough" or whatever to compete with the boys.
But I've come around, because women don't simply get any opportunities their way and are unfairly lumped in all together as 1 group (as are all other minorities)

"we gave a woman a chance and see the result?" that can be replaced with black, chines, asian, or whatever and that is the overall sentiment usually.

I hope this series succeeds and that the machinery they are given are at least f2/F3 caliber. In that way, the cream rises to the top and if a woman is producing outstanding lap times, then they should be more than considered for some F1/F2 or other top racing categories. I think it also gives some F1 teams and or manufactures a great PR opportunity to participate and endear themselves to a new audience. if the FIA were smart, they would find some way to add that series into the F1 weekends.

[Nitrodaze]

At first I was not to keen about this because i thought it would, relegate women to only this series and further the stereo type of them not being "strong enough" or whatever to compete with the boys.
But I've come around, because women don't simply get any opportunities their way and are unfairly lumped in all together as 1 group (as are all other minorities)

"we gave a woman a chance and see the result?" that can be replaced with black, chines, asian, or whatever and that is the overall sentiment usually.

I hope this series succeeds and that the machinery they are given are at least f2/F3 caliber. In that way, the cream rises to the top and if a woman is producing outstanding lap times, then they should be more than considered for some F1/F2 or other top racing categories. I think it also gives some F1 teams and or manufactures a great PR opportunity to participate and endear themselves to a new audience. if the FIA were smart, they would find some way to add that series into the F1 weekends.

I agree. The W series cars are based on the 2019 F3 car. I hope the FIA heeds your comment. Besides they need to bring the Electric series and this W series into the limelight. Formula E is not getting good international TV coverage. I worry this W series may easily fair the same way if not assisted.

[airshifter]

At first I was not to keen about this because i thought it would, relegate women to only this series and further the stereo type of them not being "strong enough" or whatever to compete with the boys.
But I've come around, because women don't simply get any opportunities their way and are unfairly lumped in all together as 1 group (as are all other minorities)

"we gave a woman a chance and see the result?" that can be replaced with black, chines, asian, or whatever and that is the overall sentiment usually.

I hope this series succeeds and that the machinery they are given are at least f2/F3 caliber. In that way, the cream rises to the top and if a woman is producing outstanding lap times, then they should be more than considered for some F1/F2 or other top racing categories. I think it also gives some F1 teams and or manufactures a great PR opportunity to participate and endear themselves to a new audience. if the FIA were smart, they would find some way to add that series into the F1 weekends.

I'm all for it. Hopefully if they do it right it will give a chance for the better performing women to be noticed and brought into the teams that are now dominated by men. There are plenty of badass woman athletes these days, and I'm sure within that group some of them are great drivers as well. Once they have a path to the upper level series, it's just a matter of time before some of them end up there. And lets face it, it's not as if F1 is honestly about the best drivers only. It's about some of the best, and some that are very good but also did well with enough sponsorship or family money to get into the sport. I would think the chances would be good for a top level female driver to get loads of sponsorship money and hopefully find a way in.

Just a few years ago, it was rare to see a female in the F1 garages. Now almost every team has at least one or two doing mechanical/engineer type work, and at least one or two women are on the pit wall crew now.

[Starter]

I'll be the disagreeing voice here. I am against a separate women only series. Auto racing is one of the few sports where women can compete on an even level with men. That's because its not about how big you are (being big is a disadvantage in formula cars), how fast you are or how strong you are. Its about physical conditioning, mental concentration and desire. There haven't been a lot of women competing at a high level in the sport because of various societal pressures. Women who have made it to a high level have had reasonable success considering the number who have even attempted (NOT counting Danica Patrick here :p). Segregating women into a separate series is not the answer IMO.

[Nitrodaze]

I'll be the disagreeing voice here. I am against a separate women only series. Auto racing is one of the few sports where women can compete on an even level with men. That's because its not about how big you are (being big is a disadvantage in formula cars), how fast you are or how strong you are. Its about physical conditioning, mental concentration and desire. There haven't been a lot of women competing at a high level in the sport because of various societal pressures. Women who have made it to a high level have had reasonable success considering the number who have even attempted (NOT counting Danica Patrick here :p). Segregating women into a separate series is not the answer IMO.

I don't think you have taken a disagreeing position as the female drivers would have to "inevitably" race against men if they make it into F1. But l think most people who disagree with the concept of a women only series miss a very subtle point. The series is to provide an incubator environment for up and coming female racers to find their feet. For most females, the male dominated environment can be intimidating for the fledgling female racer trying to decide if racing is for them. A women only series would help nuture the interest in racing and the talent required to compete outside the negative and poisoning prejudice environment where they would frequently hear from some that women can't and should not race cars.

The idea here is, they would be going into F2 with confidence and with the requisite toughness to deal with whatever the F2 series has to throw at them. Besides most of the resistance to them would be reduced as we would have seen what the crop of female drivers moving up into F2 can do from the W series.

If you are honest, when you think of female drivers in F1, some have a niggling doubt that they would be good enough. But how would you know unless we have a series like this to provide some high quality candidates for us to see compete in mixed series.

I personally think this series could produce some very credible female racers in the near future. We just have to try to look beyond the stigmas and doubts. I would say, give it the benefit of the doubt.

That said, the series would be very bad for women if it turns out to be the only avenue for women racers to get into mainstream racing series such as F3 or F2. Women who prefer not to race in the W series but prefer to head straight to F3 or F2 should be able to do so unhindered. Otherwise the W series then becomes a segregation series which would be bad indeed.

As l have said before there are all kinds of racing series out there, thus l think there is room for a women only series.

[Jag_Warrior]

Segregating women into a separate series is not the answer IMO.

Some schools in the U.S. now have girls only math and science classes for the very same reasons given by the organizers of this series. Don Panoz tried this same concept with GT racing back in the late 90's. Several of those women did go on to (limited) success in racing. Maybe this will provide something of a feeder for girls, maybe it won't. Personally, I see it more as a PC PR stunt (call me jaded and cynical). But anyway, I'm also of the opinion that putting girls in a "safe space", and then expecting them to be mentally/emotionally prepared when they go up against boys, who have been competing against the best in class since they were 5 or 6 years old, is a big ask.

Even though I also do not believe in segregation (and gender is no exception), I don't mean to sound harsh at the outset. If a girl can turn this into an F2/F3 ride and earn enough super license points to get considered for an F1 drive, that's great. But if she whines for a seat (like Susie Wolff), after not collecting the required super license points, never winning a race or accomplishing anything of merit, then she goes in the waste bin with all of the other drivers who tried and failed. I'm certain that there is at least one girl out there who has the talent and mental toughness to make it in F1. But IMO, she'll have to be more like Angelle Sampey and less like Danica Patrick (Susie Wollf or Carmen Jorda). I'm sorry that Simona di Silvestro got tied up with that fraud, Monisha Kaltenborn. She most certainly had the mental toughness to make it. She just needed to polish off the rough edges and further develop her racecraft.

[Bagwan]

One question that comes to my mind is , to what series will it be seen as equal ?
Would it be seen as the same as F3 , the stepping stone to F2 ?

If so , then perhaps it could work .

I worry , though , that it's rather sexist , to even offer the series .


The battle to this point has been to get sponsorship beyond F2 , if they can even get there , so perhaps this will shine the light on those who deserve it .

And , maybe they deserve it even more , because most little girls start out with Barbie , who did happen to have a fast car , but never raced it .

[zako85]

We need a broader concept: AA Series, the Affirmative Action series, in order to increase the participation of underrepresented minority groups in the top level motorsports. The series will be open only to handicapped people, native americans, women, latinos, jews, and members of LGBT community. Basically anyone who is not a straight white euro man. The series goal will be to identify the top minorities talent and send it into Formula 1 racing. Any members of the mentioned minorities will be welcome, but the ideal candidate should be a one-eyed lesbian Asian Jewish woman.

[Starter]

We need a broader concept: AA Series, the Affirmative Action series, in order to increase the participation of underrepresented minority groups in the top level motorsports. The series will be open only to handicapped people, native americans, women, latinos, jews, and members of LGBT community. Basically anyone who is not a straight white euro man. The series goal will be to identify the top minorities talent and send it into Formula 1 racing. Any members of the mentioned minorities will be welcome, but the ideal candidate should be a one-eyed lesbian Asian Jewish woman.
I like it. Except that you are discriminating against black people by not including them and also those with mental deficiencies like me.

[Jag_Warrior]

I like it. Except that you are discriminating against black people by not including them and also those with mental deficiencies like me.

Lewis already satisfied the "one and done" rule in the AA Series. :cheese: I hear that Lance Stroll ticks the box on another one, but I ain't going there (even as a joke). I'm not in the mood for Don Lemon to be protesting outside my house with CNN cameras this weekend. :D

Again, jokes aside, there are more than enough wealthy women in the west (and the east) to support a female driver up through the ranks... if they chose to spend their money doing that. What about Oprah? What about Sheryl Sandberg? Truth be told, F1 (F2, F3, etc.) has always primarily been a series for wealthy White boys, most of whom had some measure of driving/racing talent. Unlike with stick & ball sports, your family either has to have money or connections to make it much further than karts (and even that's expensive). So yeah, I think it would be a welcome change to have a non-typical kid make it into the sport... hell, look at Hamilton destroying records left and right. Much like with Arthur Ashe in tennis and Tiger Woods in golf, I'm sure that Lewis has drawn in a broader array of fans... and a girl could do that same thing (unless she's a joke). The only question and concern I have is to what lengths Liberty is going to go to to get their desired result? Will the eventual female driver be someone who could have made it through (had she had funding) without this program (Simona di Silvestro), or will she be a Susie Wollf/Carmen Jorda/Danica Patrick type? I don't know. I'll hope for the best. But I am getting a bit weary of the constant whinge of feminism and the victim culture infecting the western world right now.

[Nitrodaze]

I'm also of the opinion that putting girls in a "safe space", and then expecting them to be mentally/emotionally prepared when they go up against boys, who have been competing against the best in class since they were 5 or 6 years old, is a big ask.

You make some valid points which has been raised before in forum discussions when Carlmen first floated the idea of a women only series. I think you would find that the girls going into the W Series would have been racing with the boys since 5 and 6 as well. Most of those boys go on to better things and the girls get left behind. This series give those girls something to aim for. They would know that if they do not make it into F3 there is at least Formula E or the W Series to aim for.

That said, the series will quickly lose credibility if the quality of female drivers they attract are novices with no grass root racing experience such as go carting etc. The W Series should not be a learning ground but a proving ground for women with racing talent. Anything less than a proper highly contentious racing equivalent to F3 or at a minimum F4, with quality fast racing equipment would do a disservice to women racing.

[Nitrodaze]

One question that comes to my mind is , to what series will it be seen as equal ?
Would it be seen as the same as F3 , the stepping stone to F2 ?

If so , then perhaps it could work .

I worry , though , that it's rather sexist , to even offer the series .


The battle to this point has been to get sponsorship beyond F2 , if they can even get there , so perhaps this will shine the light on those who deserve it .

And , maybe they deserve it even more , because most little girls start out with Barbie , who did happen to have a fast car , but never raced it .

The management of the W series have opted to base the W Series on the F3 car [of 2019 l think]. It would suggest that they are looking for the series to be equivalent or close to the F3 series.

I have a daughter, l make it a point not to buy her barbies or baby toys. She has two brothers, so she is abit of a tom boy. If she develops an interest in racing, l would hope she has a chance to get to the premier class of racing if she has the talent.

[Nitrodaze]

We need a broader concept: AA Series, the Affirmative Action series, in order to increase the participation of underrepresented minority groups in the top level motorsports. The series will be open only to handicapped people, native americans, women, latinos, jews, and members of LGBT community. Basically anyone who is not a straight white euro man. The series goal will be to identify the top minorities talent and send it into Formula 1 racing. Any members of the mentioned minorities will be welcome, but the ideal candidate should be a one-eyed lesbian Asian Jewish woman.

LOL, l bet Pablo Montoya would be very offended by your post. Your grouping of Handicap people with latinos; with drivers on the F1 grid over the last twenty years and beyond would not go down well with Perez or Massa either. Kubica may also find problem with it also.

But l get your point. Why should women get a special treatment?


I suppose seeing Suzie Woolf in race suit over a two years period raised a lot of questions about women drivers in F1. She got so close but did not get a chance to show if she could do a half decent job of it.

[journeyman racer]

You can't argue with performances. Women have not cut it at the top levels of circuit racing at all. With this in mind, season a FW will eliminate the potential careers of all except the champion, possibly 2nd place. If you couldn't win this series, what chance have you got against the men?


It's appropriate that it'll be part of the dtm program. Because if I were a chick, as much as I may be attracted by the bright lights of F1, I'd aim to succeed in a lower level and try and get a Touring car/GT championship, or a Le Mans win. If a female won them, they'd get the fame and fortune comparable to the top F1 drivers.

[Jag_Warrior]

I suppose seeing Suzie Woolf in race suit over a two years period raised a lot of questions about women drivers in F1. She got so close but did not get a chance to show if she could do a half decent job of it.

Toto Wolff had been a Williams shareholder and on the board of directors since 2009. Susie married Toto in 2011. She was named as a Williams development driver in 2012. Interesting timing, right? :D For a person who had just as many super license points as I do (both of us still sitting on 0), I never understood why Susie got so upset that Williams didn't enter her in a race. Not only did Susie not have any super license points, she'd never won a race (outside of karts) in her life. To the best of my knowledge, Williams couldn't have, even if they wanted to, enter her into a race. I mean, that's just how F1 is set up. In order to race, your resume has to show that you are qualified. When Honda and Toyota were spending mega bucks in F1 and CART years ago, they often did mandate the placement of Japanese drivers in teams. True, quite a few of them were jokes. But at least they had won races, if not championships, in their home country.

IMO, little girls should emulate women like Angelle Sampey or Shirley Muldowney... not the likes of Susie Wolff, Danica Patrick, Carmen Jorda or Lynn St. James. Emulate winners, champions, victors. Shoot for being a victor, not a victim, who wants special treatment.

[journeyman racer]

I think Susie's record in DTM proves beyond doubt that she's a no hoper. You don't need to see her in F1 to know that.

You know what I think would gain bigger publicity than a W series using F3 cars? An actual F1 race for women. Even just 1 would get the attention that'd dwarf the FW series would get.

[Nitrodaze]

Toto Wolff had been a Williams shareholder and on the board of directors since 2009. Susie married Toto in 2011. She was named as a Williams development driver in 2012. Interesting timing, right? :D For a person who had just as many super license points as I do (both of us still sitting on 0), I never understood why Susie got so upset that Williams didn't enter her in a race. Not only did Susie not have any super license points, she'd never won a race (outside of karts) in her life. To the best of my knowledge, Williams couldn't have, even if they wanted to, enter her into a race. I mean, that's just how F1 is set up. In order to race, your resume has to show that you are qualified. When Honda and Toyota were spending mega bucks in F1 and CART years ago, they often did mandate the placement of Japanese drivers in teams. True, quite a few of them were jokes. But at least they had won races, if not championships, in their home country.

IMO, little girls should emulate women like Angelle Sampey or Shirley Muldowney... not the likes of Susie Wolff, Danica Patrick, Carmen Jorda or Lynn St. James. Emulate winners, champions, victors. Shoot for being a victor, not a victim, who wants special treatment.

Lets not bring up the Susie Woolf discussion again. My point was she made the women in F1 situation visible, which l think is a very good thing.

[Jag_Warrior]

Lets not bring up the Susie Woolf discussion again. My point was she made the women in F1 situation visible, which l think is a very good thing.

I grant you that. But we both realize that she couldn't (and shouldn't) have sat in an F1 race seat, right? You're familiar with the great American classic, Citizen Kane? Susie was to Toto Wolff as Susan Alexander was to Charles Kane.

If a qualified female driver comes out of this series, one who can compete at the F1 level without special allowances, then that's great. I don't have an issue with that. In fact, I'd be happy to see an F1 paddock that has broader diversity than the one we have now. I'd be willing to bet that there's another talented kid (male or female, Black, White or Asian, Jew or Gentile, etc.) from Stevenage (or the Bronx or where ever) who has more talent in their little finger than Lance Stroll does in his whole body. Simply finding the female version of Lance is not what I want to see. More so than this all girls series being "the answer", I have greater hope that the various e-sports endeavors will help identify a promising racer of whatever gender, race or ethnicity... just because the initial barriers to entry in e-sports are so much less.

[Starter]

I grant you that. But we both realize that she couldn't (and shouldn't) have sat in an F1 race seat, right? You're familiar with the great American classic, Citizen Kane? Susie was to Toto Wolff as Susan Alexander was to Charles Kane.

If a qualified female driver comes out of this series, one who can compete at the F1 level without special allowances, then that's great. I don't have an issue with that. In fact, I'd be happy to see an F1 paddock that has broader diversity than the one we have now. I'd be willing to bet that there's another talented kid (male or female, Black, White or Asian, Jew or Gentile, etc.) from Stevenage (or the Bronx or where ever) who has more talent in their little finger than Lance Stroll does in his whole body. Simply finding the female version of Lance is not what I want to see. More so than this all girls series being "the answer", I have greater hope that the various e-sports endeavors will help identify a promising racer of whatever gender, race or ethnicity... just because the initial barriers to entry in e-sports are so much less.
My biggest issue with the proposed series is that it will IMO demean women racers. There are not that many at the upper levels of racing as it stands now. Not all would wish to participate just as not all male drivers dream of being in F1. That leaves the question of how do you fill the field? And with what (in terms of deserving drivers)? Now you've just watered down the talent level and, to a certain degree, made a joke of the seriousness of said series.

Lets compare to other pro sports. Tennis - the female side of the sport has been around for a long time and has developed it's own following. That happened over decades. Basketball - there has been a training ground in college sports, again for decades, so that when the WNBA was founded there were plenty of women who were used to and trained to compete at a very high level already existing to fill rosters. AND to make a compelling product. That doesn't exist in racing. The time it will take to mature will be very long (think of 5 year old girls competing in Karts as the boys do) to get enough of them developed to a competitive level as 16+ year olds. Add in the several LARGE sacks of money necessary to fund this thing for ten to fifteen years and its a non starter.

[Nitrodaze]

My biggest issue with the proposed series is that it will IMO demean women racers. There are not that many at the upper levels of racing as it stands now. Not all would wish to participate just as not all male drivers dream of being in F1. That leaves the question of how do you fill the field? And with what (in terms of deserving drivers)? Now you've just watered down the talent level and, to a certain degree, made a joke of the seriousness of said series.

Lets compare to other pro sports. Tennis - the female side of the sport has been around for a long time and has developed it's own following. That happened over decades. Basketball - there has been a training ground in college sports, again for decades, so that when the WNBA was founded there were plenty of women who were used to and trained to compete at a very high level already existing to fill rosters. AND to make a compelling product. That doesn't exist in racing. The time it will take to mature will be very long (think of 5 year old girls competing in Karts as the boys do) to get enough of them developed to a competitive level as 16+ year olds. Add in the several LARGE sacks of money necessary to fund this thing for ten to fifteen years and its a non starter.

I don't think the W series would struggle to fill the seats. There are more than twenty professional female racers competing in various series around the world. Plus, they have made entry to the first season free entry subject to applicants meeting a certain criteria. I don't think the W series would want to field low quality drivers. They would want to find twenty of the best female racers out there who are at least good enough to F3 or F4 calibre.

It is a new series. The organizers are green to operating racing at this level and the driver would be trying out something new to them in the first few seasons. So we would need to be patient for the series to develop at its pace. More like the patience we gave the E-Series. l think this series would surprise many when it gets going.

[Starter]

I don't think the W series would struggle to fill the seats. There are more than twenty professional female racers competing in various series around the world. Plus, they have made entry to the first season free entry subject to applicants meeting a certain criteria. I don't think the W series would want to field low quality drivers. They would want to find twenty of the best female racers out there who are at least good enough to F3 or F4 calibre.

It is a new series. The organizers are green to operating racing at this level and the driver would be trying out something new to them in the first few seasons. So we would need to be patient for the series to develop at its pace. More like the patience we gave the E-Series. l think this series would surprise many when it gets going.
Comparing to the E series is not a great choice. That series was meant to showcase the alternate power systems and not the drivers. Cars were put together in about a year, which is a pretty quick design to market time frame. Which brings up another thought, will car racing as we know it even exist 10+ years from now? Many mfgs. are already saying that they won't be making gasoline (or diesel) motors 5 years from now. Everything is going low horsepower and high energy efficiency. That's a good thing for the planet, not so much for auto racing.