2018 Japanese GP [Suzuka]

[Nitrodaze]

https://www.4gamer.net/bg/f1/round/img/Suzuka/SUZUKA_T0.jpg

Back to the figure of eight track of suzuka. The tragic incident of Bianchi comes to mind. This is a drivers track as it has everything for an exciting drive; from tight hairpins, punishing chicanes, head swinging series of "S" curves, fast curves and a number of fast stretches. This track may favour the Redbull and one would expect the Ferrari to go well on this track.

Can Vettel and Ferrari snatch a win here? My money is on Verstapenn stealing a win for Redbull.

Note:- The green line is the racing line for this track.

[truefan72]

Wow. Sky sport will not give this team order thing a rest. Ridiculous.

[Duncan]

One of my favorite tracks; always look forward to Suzuka.

Anyway, actually got to watch most of FP1 live this time around. While it's always dangerous to read too much into anything from FP1, it looks pretty ominous so far. Be interesting to see if Ferrari and RBR have something else, but so far looks like they have quite a hill to climb to match the pace of Mercedes.

Meanwhile, right now Sebastian Vettel's elimination number is 75: every point that Hamilton scores, and every point below 25 that Vettel scores is subtracted from that number. If that number hits zero, it's over...

[Nitrodaze]

Wow. Sky sport will not give this team order thing a rest. Ridiculous.

I don't remember them ever making an issue when Ferrari used team orders this season. I can think of more than two occasions where Kimi had to let Vettel through on the orders of the Ferrari pitwall. I think they just want to have a dig at Mercedes and Hamilton. I guess everyone expects Ferrari to do it but not Mercedes. Hence, it kind of looks like double standard how they over reacted when Mercedes had to do it.

If they wanted to have a go constructively, they should have had a go at the FIA who legalized team orders.

[Nitrodaze]

One of my favorite tracks; always look forward to Suzuka.

Anyway, actually got to watch most of FP1 live this time around. While it's always dangerous to read too much into anything from FP1, it looks pretty ominous so far. Be interesting to see if Ferrari and RBR have something else, but so far looks like they have quite a hill to climb to match the pace of Mercedes.

Meanwhile, right now Sebastian Vettel's elimination number is 75: every point that Hamilton scores, and every point below 25 that Vettel scores is subtracted from that number. If that number hits zero, it's over...


It is an uphill battle now for Vettel. Mathematically, Vettel has to win the next five races and Hamilton would need to finish 4th on average over the next five races for Vettel to win the drivers championship. That looks like a very tall order but not impossible. If Hamilton wins the Japanese GP, it would be over for Vettel. If Hamilton finish 2nd or 3rd over the next two races, he world be world champion.

Vettel wins the rest six races - 331 total points possible.
Hamilton finishes 3rd next two races - 336 total points possible and five world championship points to be a five times world champion. This is also true if Hamilton have two DNF and finish at least 5th over three races.

The championship hope is bleak for Vettel. It would take a major F***up or a divine act for Vettel to win it. Even so, it would be very obvious that he did not deserve it.

[Bagwan]

It is an uphill battle now for Vettel. Mathematically, Vettel has to win the next five races and Hamilton would need to finish 4th on average over the next five races for Vettel to win the drivers championship. That looks like a very tall order but not impossible. If Hamilton wins the Japanese GP, it would be over for Vettel. If Hamilton finish 2nd or 3rd over the next two races, he world be world champion.

Vettel wins the rest races - 331 total points possible.
Hamilton finishes 3rd next two races - 336 total points possible and five world championship points to be a five times world champion. This is also true if Hamilton have two DNF and finish at least 5th over three races.

The championship hope is bleak for Vettel. It would take a major F***up or a divine act for Vettel to win it. Even so, it would be very obvious that he did not deserve it.

Dude , you really do make some bold statements , don't you ?

You say , " It is an uphill battle now for Vettel." .
With that , I can agree .

But , then you say , " Even so, it would be very obvious that he did not deserve it. " .
Would it not be an amazing come-back if Vettel was to win it ?
Is there absolutely no scenario that could make it a legitimate win in your eyes ?

I mean , I don't really see it happening , but would it not be amazing if it did ?

[Nitrodaze]

Dude , you really do make some bold statements , don't you ?

You say , " It is an uphill battle now for Vettel." .
With that , I can agree .

But , then you say , " Even so, it would be very obvious that he did not deserve it. " .
Would it not be an amazing come-back if Vettel was to win it ?
Is there absolutely no scenario that could make it a legitimate win in your eyes ?

I mean , I don't really see it happening , but would it not be amazing if it did ?

I suppose that is a fair question, can Vettel make a deserving comeback. If you read my post carefully, you would see that l pointed out that Hamilton would have to suffer some bad luck that would ensure that he scores less than 25 points over the next five races. That, l am afraid would require divine intervention. Otherwise, Hamilton in his current form and the bulletproof Mercedes can easily muster more than the requisite 26 points to put this championship to rest.

If Vettel wins it through the extraordinary circumstances which causes Hamilton to score less than 25 points, many would think Vettel was not worthy of the 2018 title because he did not win it in a head to head duel on track but by factors outside the skills of racing.

The numbers are very much against Vettel at this point. Please read my post again, it also says that it is possible for Vettel to win it.

[truefan72]

RBR doing their best to screw Ricciardo. SMH.

[truefan72]

Damn. Sauber left it too late for leclerc. Teams are really doing their drivers no favors today with their poor strategies.

[truefan72]

Wow. Ferrari bottle it again. Madness

[The Black Knight]

Wow. Ferrari bottle it again. Madness

Can’t understand it. Knew it was wrong decision to be on wets as soon as I saw them on it from the comfort of my armchair. It was obvious.

[BigWorm]

Doesn't really matter what Ferrari do IMO, Hamilton is unbeatable this weekend

[Nitrodaze]

Grrrrrrrr

[zako85]

So let's speculate if Mercedes will allow Bottas to race this time. It's safe to assume that unless the top three screw up, Vettel finishes fourth while Hamilton is second (6 point gain on Vettel) or first (13 point gain).

[Nitrodaze]

So let's speculate if Mercedes will allow Bottas to race this time. It's safe to assume that unless the top three screw up, Vettel finishes fourth while Hamilton is second (6 point gain on Vettel) or first (13 point gain).

I hope so, but Bottas is not fast enough in Suzuka. But this is an opportunity to pay back Bottas. Bottas is 67 points behind Vettel. Hence, he is in a good position to fight for 2nd place in the championship. Five wins for Bottas could put him comfortably 2nd in the championship.

[Bagwan]

I suppose that is a fair question, can Vettel make a deserving comeback. If you read my post carefully, you would see that l pointed out that Hamilton would have to suffer some bad luck that would ensure that he scores less than 25 points over the next five races. That, l am afraid would require divine intervention. Otherwise, Hamilton in his current form and the bulletproof Mercedes can easily muster more than the requisite 26 points to put this championship to rest.

If Vettel wins it through the extraordinary circumstances which causes Hamilton to score less than 25 points, many would think Vettel was not worthy of the 2018 title because he did not win it in a head to head duel on track but by factors outside the skills of racing.

The numbers are very much against Vettel at this point. Please read my post again, it also says that it is possible for Vettel to win it.

It does say that , but then dismisses it , saying it would be undeserved .

Do remember that that whole reasoning behind having Bottas honourably give away his position to Lewis in the last race was the threat of Vettel beating him , approaching from behind .
Toto said it is only one "freaky" race and a DNF away from a close championship , so he's obviously still looking at Seb as a real threat .

Anything can happen in F1 , and it usually does .(thanks , Murray)

[Bagwan]

Why does anybody have to pay Bottas back anything ?
Don't they pay him ?
He should go to the FIA and complain about this if they aren't paying him .

This is scandalous .
And a little facetious as well , but seriously , he works for a team , so should be happy with the team lauding his efforts , not getting a hollow pay-back position change .

He should be proud of his sacrifice , and own it .
That's a hero .

[truefan72]

Magnussen is a dangerous guy and deserves a strong penalty. Verstappen deserved the 5sec penalty. Hisvexcuse was laughable

[truefan72]

Vettel. Wtf are you doing????
Amd that deserves a penalty too.
Wow vettel just lost the championship. What an idiot

[truefan72]

Dumb stewards. I don't care that magnussen retired he should get a grid penalty for the next race. He ruined leclerc's race!...and ericcson showing everyone why he is the worst driver

[truefan72]

What is taking so long to announce vettel s penalty???

[truefan72]

Fiarrari in full effect. This is the most bullshit decision. How does vettel not get a penalty????
Honestly this is a travesty. Smh

[truefan72]

Watch kimi get some phantom retirement.
Useless vettel

[truefan72]

Hmm. I think verstappen gained an unnatural amount during the vsc

[truefan72]

Bottas. Smh

[Nitrodaze]

Bottas. Smh

yea :-(

[truefan72]

man do i loathe Chrstian Horner,
taking shots at renault again.
I will bet anyone $100 that most of RBR's issues are self inflicted or their packaging as it has borne out time and time again.
I'm not saying Renault are faultless, but this "we are innocent, it is all renault's fault" is utter nonsense

and here we go with vettel's pathetic excuse for the incident. "verstappen didn't give him enough room" lol

My take away from the race is that the stewards were awful, mercedes look dominant, and ferrari keep shooting themselves in the foot,both team and driver

[Nitrodaze]

The championship fight is more or less done now. It is just a formality to seal it off in the next race. This was a race that Vettel needed to be flawless. In stead, he made a number of mistake to make it easier for Mercedes and Hamilton. We have to look to next year now for a new championship fight.

Verstapenn and Magnussen were the bad boys of the race.

[N. Jones]

I cannot believe the mistakes Vettal and team are making. Hopefully the Honda is better for RB because the STR looked like a bicycle in a motorcycle race.

[Duncan]

Well, that pretty much wraps up the season. Vettel's elimination number drops to 33; at this point, unless Hamilton has multiple DNFs there's almost no way for Vettel to catch up.

Pretty much self-inflicted disaster for Vettel this race; although he can put a lot of his poor starting position on the team's strange tire decision in Q3, that move on Verstappen looked like a pure unforced error to me. All he had to do was wait for the exit from spoon 2 and he should have had a pretty decent shot at out-dragging the RBR up the hill. Lucky to avoid a penalty, too. He was driving a good race up until that point and had almost erased the deficit from the poor qualy; should have ended up on the podium.

Also, I don't get Verstappen's complaint that the penalty was harsh for the collision with Kimi. Surely the issue was not whether he gave Kimi room, or gained an advantage going wide, but that he went 4 off and had no right to any part of the track when re-entering at that point? In any case, looked like a fair penalty to me, and otherwise a great race from Max.

[gm99]

Pretty much self-inflicted disaster for Vettel this race; although he can put a lot of his poor starting position on the team's strange tire decision in Q3, that move on Verstappen looked like a pure unforced error to me. All he had to do was wait for the exit from spoon 2 and he should have had a pretty decent shot at out-dragging the RBR up the hill. Lucky to avoid a penalty, too. He was driving a good race up until that point and had almost erased the deficit from the poor qualy; should have ended up on the podium.


He didn't even need to overtake Max on track considering the RB driver's penalty. If he had just stayed within 5 seconds of Max, it would have been an automatic podium.

[Warriwa]

Max will chop anyone who dares to show him a wheel.
He reminds me of my wife. Always someone else's fault.
When I tread on her toes, I must apologise.
When she treads on my toes, I must apologise for getting in her way.
Just kidding.
He's not that bad.

[N. Jones]

The first was Max's fault. The second was not.

[N. Jones]

He didn't even need to overtake Max on track considering the RB driver's penalty. If he had just stayed within 5 seconds of Max, it would have been an automatic podium.

True but they are racers. The drivers want to overtake for position.

[Bagwan]

Max will chop anyone who dares to show him a wheel.
He reminds me of my wife. Always someone else's fault.
When I tread on her toes, I must apologise.
When she treads on my toes, I must apologise for getting in her way.
Just kidding.
He's not that bad.

You are a brave man .


I'd never talk about Max that way .

[Warriwa]

LoL, what she doesn't know, won't hurt me. I'm only brave on the internet when she's not around. Ssshhhhhhh, here she comes.

[Bagwan]

LoL, what she doesn't know, won't hurt me. I'm only brave on the internet when she's not around. Ssshhhhhhh, here she comes.

I get a free pass on F1 from my girl ......for some reason .
She even took me and my boy to the '04 Montreal race , so I dare not rock the boat .

Or , even ask why .

[Bezza]

Max will chop anyone who dares to show him a wheel.
He reminds me of my wife. Always someone else's fault.
When I tread on her toes, I must apologise.
When she treads on my toes, I must apologise for getting in her way.
Just kidding.
He's not that bad.

Verstappen is the one driver on the grid who never concedes position easily. And long may he continue.

With DRS making passing too easy and false, everybody else doesn't bother to defend.

Get rid of DRS I'd say and give the drivers of slower cars a chance to defend against fast ones coming back through the field. Then the penalties for stupid errors like Vettel and daft engine penalties will be more significant.

Oh, more gravel please!!

[mr_swiss]

Verstappen is the one driver on the grid who never concedes position easily. And long may he continue.

With DRS making passing too easy and false, everybody else doesn't bother to defend.

Get rid of DRS I'd say and give the drivers of slower cars a chance to defend against fast ones coming back through the field. Then the penalties for stupid errors like Vettel and daft engine penalties will be more significant.

Oh, more gravel please!!

Yes, DRS needs to go.

[Jag_Warrior]

Until we get cars that aren't so aero sensitive that they burn their tires off when they follow closely through turns, I think DRS is a necessary evil that has to stay. For once, maybe F1 needs to figure out how the IRL cars can put on close racing without severe tire deg.

As for Vettel. I really don't know what to say. Ricciardo showed that he had chinks in his armor when they were together at Red Bull and Danny Ric dusted him up on several occasions. And last year he somewhat self-destructed while under pressure. But this year... he's taking it to a whole new level of choking. I hate to say that (even as a Hammy fan) cause I kinda like Vettel for his honesty and down to earthness (yeah, I know... probably not a word).