Alonso leaves F1

[N4D13]

The word is out, he'll be out of F1 in 2019.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/formula1/fernando-alonso-retires-f1-formula-one-mclaren-statement-2019-what-will-he-do-next-year-a8491521.html

[The Black Knight]

Not that surprising. He had the signs of someone that had enough. His own fault his career went the way it did. One of the greats of his generation.

[Duncan]

In IndyCar next season? I'm guessing that's where he'll be headed to chase the triple crown. But will it be a McLaren team?

[Big Ben]

I'm going to miss so much the armchair pundits talking about his career mistakes

[Zico]

I'm going to miss so much the armchair pundits talking about his career mistakes

Chill, sit back and lap them up, they are gonna flood in now.

I'll have a bash...

He had any patience he would still be sitting in a Ferrari right now... or could even be at Mercedes if he had made better choices in career direction. Ah.. hindsight is a wonderful thing eh? ;)
Bottom line is no one really wants him due to his manipulative, divisive political outbursts.

One of the very best of a generation but unfortunately the author and master of his own F1 career demise.


How was that? :p ;)

[Nitrodaze]

I am not surprised but l am very disappointed. I am not sure what with. But l feel it would have been great to see him fighting at the front one more time before he retire. That is not to be. All the top teams are being very risk conscious and not willing to dare. Which is boring. This is the reason Ricciado has head to Renault and why Alonso has departed the sport. No one seem to want to take any risk with some the most exciting drivers in the paddock just to shake things up.

I say farewell to the last man to beat Micheal Schumacher fair and square. Easily one of the most exciting drivers to turn a F1 wheel since the red Baron. He remains in my mind the most competitve and determined driver to race in F1 since the end of the Schumacher era. Given a decent car, he would be very much be in the title hunt.

[Duncan]

This sounds like it might be related:

https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/alonso-indycar-support-mclaren-plans/3158813/?nrt=86

[Starter]

This sounds like it might be related:

https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/alonso-indycar-support-mclaren-plans/3158813/?nrt=86
I think they would be there in a skinny minute if funding was in place. As usual with racing these days, that is the hold up at this time. We'll see if it works out. Don't get me wrong because I'd love to see it happen. It's just that far too many big plans fail to materialize because of money.

[The Black Knight]

Chill, sit back and lap them up, they are gonna flood in now.

I'll have a bash...

He had any patience he would still be sitting in a Ferrari right now... or could even be at Mercedes if he had made better choices in career direction. Ah.. hindsight is a wonderful thing eh? ;)
Bottom line is no one really wants him due to his manipulative, divisive political outbursts.

One of the very best of a generation but unfortunately the author and master of his own F1 career demise.


How was that? :p ;)

There’s plenty more that share our opinion:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138029/people-overrate-alonso--scheckter

[truefan72]

Well, it was a rather sad way to end his career. and I think the frustration finally got to him.
17 years is a long time to grind it out in F1 and as he said, the decision was made much earlier than anyone knew save a few key people that tried to convince him to stay.
He is ready for the the next chapter in his life and is at peace with his illustrious F1 career

[Tazio]

https://e3.365dm.com/18/08/768x432/skysports-f1-fernando-alonso_4389967.jpg He'll be back!:cool:

[jens]

Great driver, but the way his career declined, especially in the end, is kind of weird or fascinating in itself.

For all his unhappiness that he couldn't get a great car in Ferrari in 2014, he ends up in McLaren-Honda, which made Ferrari look like a rocketship.

And once he realized he had made a mistake, nobody wants him any more.

Poor situation, but better luck in other series. After all, he is winning in Le Mans in Toyota.

[The Black Knight]

https://e3.365dm.com/18/08/768x432/skysports-f1-fernando-alonso_4389967.jpg He'll be back!:cool:

Maybe. I doubt he'll be back as a driver at his age.

[Zico]

There’s plenty more that share our opinion:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138029/people-overrate-alonso--scheckter

Yes, the only difference being that I dont think he is overrated though.
If Lewis hadnt moved to Mercedes and won more WDC's, by your own logic, you are suggesting that Vettel would be a better driver than Lewis? I'd really struggle to accept that.

Whilst I think good career decision making might be a sign of being very well connected, well informed and visionary, pure driving ability itself is a seperate skill that should stand on its own.

[zako85]

Well, it was a rather sad way to end his career. and I think the


It was a lot better than Villeneuve's exit from F1.

[zako85]

After all, he is winning in Le Mans in Toyota.


It was a great accomplishment to beat all those other factory teams. If I was Alonso, I'd sweep that win under a rug.

[The Black Knight]

Yes, the only difference being that I dont think he is overrated though.
If Lewis hadnt moved to Mercedes and won more WDC's, by your own logic, you are suggesting that Vettel would be a better driver than Lewis? I'd really struggle to accept that.

Whilst I think good career decision making might be a sign of being very well connected, well informed and visionary, pure driving ability itself is a seperate skill that should stand on its own.

I don’t think he’s overrated but I do think he has only himself to blame for the last 5 years of his career. None of the big teams wanted him because, as Horner put it, “He tends to cause chaos wherever he goes”. As a driving talent he is amazing. I disagree that being able to make good career choices does not form part of being a great racing driver. Great drivers Schumacher, Senna, Hamilton have had to make key decisions at times throughout their careers. The decision to leave Ferrari and go to McLaren was just bonkers. He might not have another championship under his belt yet if he had stayed with Ferrari, but he’d have many more wins. It’s the decisions he has made and chaos he causes that has ultimately led to him not having a competitive drive for the last 5 years.

[Zico]

I don’t think he’s overrated but I do think he has only himself to blame for the last 5 years of his career. None of the big teams wanted him because, as Horner put it, “He tends to cause chaos wherever he goes”. As a driving talent he is amazing.

Agreed..


I disagree that being able to make good career choices does not form part of being a great racing driver. Great drivers Schumacher, Senna, Hamilton have had to make key decisions at times throughout their careers. The decision to leave Ferrari and go to McLaren was just bonkers. He might not have another championship under his belt yet if he had stayed with Ferrari, but he’d have many more wins. It’s the decisions he has made and chaos he causes that has ultimately led to him not having a competitive drive for the last 5 years.

Yes, agreed on the whole. Great racing driver but he wasnt as succesful as he could have been due to some character flaws.
It seems our only disagreement here is over the choice of a single word. If we used the term 'succesfull' instead of 'greatest' racing driver, then that would also encompass that.

[Starter]

It was a lot better than Villeneuve's exit from F1.
Yes, either of their exits.

[N4D13]

Motorsport Week is running the story that Alonso will be taking part in an IndyCar test in September: https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/19493

[The Black Knight]

Agreed..



Yes, agreed on the whole. Great racing driver but he wasnt as succesful as he could have been due to some character flaws.
It seems our only disagreement here is over the choice of a single word. If we used the term 'succesfull' instead of 'greatest' racing driver, then that would also encompass that.

Haha, fair enough.

[N4D13]

As for the "greatest ever" discussion, there are mathematical models which objectively compare drivers across different eras and they almost always seem to put Alonso as the best driver of his generation, ahead of Hamilton and often Schumacher (usually depending on whether they include Schumacher's Mercedes results). A quick Google search will return quite a few of these, but here's the first one that appears: https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/who-was-the-greatest-f1-driver/. For instance, this one puts Alonso as the 3rd best driver ever, whereas Stewart would be 2nd and Clark, 1st. On the other hand, Hamilton is 12th; Vettel, 8th; Rosberg, 7th, and Schumacher, 4th. (Still, that is counting results only up to 2014, and Rosberg's high position benefits from him having beaten Schumacher; if they remove these years, then he falls to 15th)

That said, these models rank drivers based on their driving ability, but yesterday Jody Scheckter put in a very valid point: he considers Alonso to be an overrated driver because, while no sane person would ever dispute his driving ability, his divisive nature and the fact that he creates chaos pretty much everywhere he goes means that teams will him will often perform at a lower level than if he was a better team player. And I don't think any sane mathematical model can accurately reflect this.

[jens]

As for the "greatest ever" discussion, there are mathematical models which objectively compare drivers across different eras and they almost always seem to put Alonso as the best driver of his generation, ahead of Hamilton and often Schumacher (usually depending on whether they include Schumacher's Mercedes results). A quick Google search will return quite a few of these, but here's the first one that appears: https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/who-was-the-greatest-f1-driver/. For instance, this one puts Alonso as the 3rd best driver ever, whereas Stewart would be 2nd and Clark, 1st. On the other hand, Hamilton is 12th; Vettel, 8th; Rosberg, 7th, and Schumacher, 4th. (Still, that is counting results only up to 2014, and Rosberg's high position benefits from him having beaten Schumacher; if they remove these years, then he falls to 15th)

That said, these models rank drivers based on their driving ability, but yesterday Jody Scheckter put in a very valid point: he considers Alonso to be an overrated driver because, while no sane person would ever dispute his driving ability, his divisive nature and the fact that he creates chaos pretty much everywhere he goes means that teams will him will often perform at a lower level than if he was a better team player. And I don't think any sane mathematical model can accurately reflect this.

In that link the ranking gets weird pretty quickly. Most strikingly odd ones are that Rosberg is ahead of Hamilton, which should ring some alarm bells. And Senna is down in 19th!

As for Alonso's position across eras, well, that gets complicated, because F1 history is so long. He is certainly a top driver, and part of the elite of the last 10 years together with Hamilton and Vettel. But that's as much as I would say. Each era has its own elite. :)

[The Black Knight]

In that link the ranking gets weird pretty quickly. Most strikingly odd ones are that Rosberg is ahead of Hamilton, which should ring some alarm bells. And Senna is down in 19th!

As for Alonso's position across eras, well, that gets complicated, because F1 history is so long. He is certainly a top driver, and part of the elite of the last 10 years together with Hamilton and Vettel. But that's as much as I would say. Each era has its own elite. :)

I'd rate Alonso and Hamilton as the best of their era, but I don't know if I could rate Alonso as one of the GOAT's. I think you have to have achieved more to have carry that torch.

Hamilton is definitely among the GOAT's although I still think he lacks a bit of consistency from time to time.

Vettel is up there with the best of his generation but I definitely don't rate him among the GOAT's for various reasons but he's riding pretty close.

[Nitrodaze]

As for the "greatest ever" discussion, there are mathematical models which objectively compare drivers across different eras and they almost always seem to put Alonso as the best driver of his generation, ahead of Hamilton and often Schumacher (usually depending on whether they include Schumacher's Mercedes results). A quick Google search will return quite a few of these, but here's the first one that appears: https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/who-was-the-greatest-f1-driver/. For instance, this one puts Alonso as the 3rd best driver ever, whereas Stewart would be 2nd and Clark, 1st. On the other hand, Hamilton is 12th; Vettel, 8th; Rosberg, 7th, and Schumacher, 4th. (Still, that is counting results only up to 2014, and Rosberg's high position benefits from him having beaten Schumacher; if they remove these years, then he falls to 15th)

That said, these models rank drivers based on their driving ability, but yesterday Jody Scheckter put in a very valid point: he considers Alonso to be an overrated driver because, while no sane person would ever dispute his driving ability, his divisive nature and the fact that he creates chaos pretty much everywhere he goes means that teams will him will often perform at a lower level than if he was a better team player. And I don't think any sane mathematical model can accurately reflect this.

The problem with mathematical models is they tend to be hugely subjective. You put rubbish in and you get rubbish out. And you tend to produce a vast number of data to explain your rubbish. This one is definitely poppy cocks. Especially since Hamilton got the better of Alonso in the same car in the same team, l fail to see how the model overlooked that one. Too many other quantifiable variables were not engaged in the model. It was a great attempt but clearly falls short of a credible model.

[journeyman racer]

The problem with mathematical models is they tend to be hugely subjective. You put rubbish in and you get rubbish out. And you tend to produce a vast number of data to explain your rubbish. This one is definitely poppy cocks. Especially since Hamilton got the better of Alonso in the same car in the same team, l fail to see how the model overlooked that one. Too many other quantifiable variables were not engaged in the model. It was a great attempt but clearly falls short of a credible model.
Nitrodaze emphasises the low level of comprehension motorsport fans have nowadays (again).

Hamilton got the better of Alonso in the same car and team? Alright, It was only one year.

How did he get the better of him? On a tie breaker having to revert to most 2nd place finishes. He didn't even win more races That now forever defines Hamilton and Alonso. It's the only thing those that want to diminish Alonso have.

It's not acknowledged by such fans that Alonso's reputation and performances have increased since then. He's beaten (scored more points and/or more wins) Hamilton in inferior cars on numerous seasons since. Whereas Hamilton in his whole career has never beaten Alonso in an inferior car.


Learn to put things in context. Do I have to do it all the time???

[journeyman racer]

I'd rate Alonso and Hamilton as the best of their era, but I don't know if I could rate Alonso as one of the GOAT's. I think you have to have achieved more to have carry that torch.

Hamilton is definitely among the GOAT's although I still think he lacks a bit of consistency from time to time.

Vettel is up there with the best of his generation but I definitely don't rate him among the GOAT's for various reasons but he's riding pretty close.

Then you have TBK. 32 wins and two championships is not enough to be considered an all time great. But he is the best of his era with Hamilton, it's just Hamilton is also an all time great.

So obviously yuo have to be a stat accumulator to be an all time great...or whatever criteria suits the opinion to say Hamilton is.

[N4D13]

The problem with mathematical models is they tend to be hugely subjective. You put rubbish in and you get rubbish out. And you tend to produce a vast number of data to explain your rubbish. This one is definitely poppy cocks. Especially since Hamilton got the better of Alonso in the same car in the same team, l fail to see how the model overlooked that one. Too many other quantifiable variables were not engaged in the model. It was a great attempt but clearly falls short of a credible model.
Normally I enjoy reading your opinions and may agree with many of them, but quite frankly this sentence here is the most utterly clueless line I've ever read in this forum and I've been here for quite a few years now.

Jesus Christ, a mathematical model is absolutely anything but subjective. That's the whole point of actually using one. You still need to take the results it gives you with a pinch of salt since every model is just that, a model, and it can't reflect absolutely all of reality (for instance, the Rosberg thing I pointed out), but it sure as hell is a more honest attempt that having anyone alter their GoaT list with their own biases, intentionally or not.

Take, for instance, the common creed that "Hamilton beat Alonso in the same car, thus Hamilton is the superior driver". journeyman racer correctly pointed out about the fact that they were tied on points and race wins, there's a couple of things that were completely out of the drivers' hands. E.g., Alonso's car damage in Bahrain, Hamilton's tyre blowouts in the Nürburgring and Turkey, Alonso getting a gearbox failure in France qualifying or getting a stop-and-go penalty in Canada for refuelling under the safety car, that ridiculous strategy call by McLaren which prompted Hamilton's retirement in China... so in the end, there were so many circumstances altering their fight that the fact that they actually finished tied in the championship only tells you that they were very close. And of course, there's the fact that 2007 was a particular singular season (switch to single tyre maker, no TC, etc.), and most notably, the obvious notion that Alonso pretty much went to war against his own team that season and is considered the lowest point of his career. WDC standings are definitely not the ultimate benchmark of driver performance, as showcased by Sainz and Verstappen's year together in which Sainz got 4 or 5 mechanical DNFs to Verstappen's one - or Rosberg's last F1 season in which he benefitted from Hamilton's reliability issues.

Anyway, the fact that there is an objective model which ranks drivers' performances compared to their teammates through their entire career can actually give us a much more honest vision that a single, very skewed and unrepresentative, data point - 2007 was an utter clusterfuck for Alonso, but also Hamilton's rookie season, so you'd have expected both drivers to have raised their game since then. And it's been 11 years already since that, so surely there's a lot more information that you could use to gain a bit more knowledge on who has been driving at a higher level.

Well, that, of course, or you can dismiss knowledge gained from objectively looking at raw data because it just doesn't fit in with your biased views. That went really well for the peeps in the US.

[airshifter]

It's a shame to see Alonso go, though at this point I don't think it's any shock at all. With his lack of luck in his F1 decisions over the last 10 years or so, he's been constantly fighting to perform well in cars that usually don't. That can suck the life out of someone who performs so well on track.

I've for many years had sort of a love/hate thing with Alonso. He's been involved in his scandals, divided some teams, yet on the track the guy is just brilliant. I can't think of a single driver who consistently helped crap cars get up into the points on such a regular basis. His years at Ferrari gave him an ill handling twitchy car, but somehow he at times attacked and hounded cars that he should have never been able to catch.


As for the entire GOAT type discussions, usually pointless IMO. There are far to many variables beyond the control of any driver that would impact many of the scores, and all the objective information in the world would only work if somehow every single one of those variables are accounted for. I'd struggle to make a list of even modern day (last 30 years or so) drivers without accumulating huge amounts of information, and even then it would take some time.

But based on pure driving ability, I think Alonso would wind up near the top of many lists. Whatever he ends up doing, I hope we still see him active in motorsports and continuing to prove that he rates up there with the top drivers.

[Tazio]

Maybe. I doubt he'll be back as a driver at his age.
Fernando Alonso will "definitely" make a Formula 1 comeback if McLaren returns to the front in grand prix racing soon, former team-mate Jenson Button believes.


"Every driver in the world would love to be in a winning car in Formula 1. You retire, I think, because you get bored of the travel and the stress of it, and if your results aren't there, there's no reason to be there."If the car is quick, I'm sure he'd want to jump back in in 2020."

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138108/button-alonso-isnt-bluffing-about-f1-return-plan
It his return is dependent on McLaren, you are probably right. :rolleyes:

[zako85]

IMHO, he should have left earlier in order to have a chance to win Le Mans back in its glory days when the three factory teams were competing. But in 2018, there was just one factory team, Toyota. And it won. For the first time ever. Well, duh. It would have been an epic fail if Toyota didn't win.

[Nitrodaze]

Nitrodaze emphasises the low level of comprehension motorsport fans have nowadays (again).

Hamilton got the better of Alonso in the same car and team? Alright, It was only one year.

How did he get the better of him? On a tie breaker having to revert to most 2nd place finishes. He didn't even win more races That now forever defines Hamilton and Alonso. It's the only thing those that want to diminish Alonso have.

It's not acknowledged by such fans that Alonso's reputation and performances have increased since then. He's beaten (scored more points and/or more wins) Hamilton in inferior cars on numerous seasons since. Whereas Hamilton in his whole career has never beaten Alonso in an inferior car.


Learn to put things in context. Do I have to do it all the time???

Sorry buddy, there is no attempt on my side to diminish Alonso. In 2007, Hamilton was on course to win the championship that year but for a gearbox failure that effectively handed the title to Kimi Raikonenn who incidentally won it by a single championship point. Up to that point, Alonso was trailing Hamilton in the points and was only saved from humiliation from the rookie by the failure of the gearbox in the Hamilton car. Even so, in the championship standing, the FIA placed Hamilton ahead of Alonso at the close of the 2007 season.

I tend to go with facts not over blown emotions. That aside, if we look at adjusted statistics, Alonso lags behind Hamilton. You may say, bad choices had alot to do with that. The greatness of a driver is usually based on their actual achievements, not their potential achievements. Kind of like saying a bird in hand is worth 20 in the forest.

Besides, my comment was about the mathematical model not necessarily about Alonso per se.

[Nitrodaze]

Normally I enjoy reading your opinions and may agree with many of them, but quite frankly this sentence here is the most utterly clueless line I've ever read in this forum and I've been here for quite a few years now.

Jesus Christ, a mathematical model is absolutely anything but subjective. That's the whole point of actually using one. You still need to take the results it gives you with a pinch of salt since every model is just that, a model, and it can't reflect absolutely all of reality (for instance, the Rosberg thing I pointed out), but it sure as hell is a more honest attempt that having anyone alter their GoaT list with their own biases, intentionally or not.

Take, for instance, the common creed that "Hamilton beat Alonso in the same car, thus Hamilton is the superior driver". journeyman racer correctly pointed out about the fact that they were tied on points and race wins, there's a couple of things that were completely out of the drivers' hands. E.g., Alonso's car damage in Bahrain, Hamilton's tyre blowouts in the Nürburgring and Turkey, Alonso getting a gearbox failure in France qualifying or getting a stop-and-go penalty in Canada for refuelling under the safety car, that ridiculous strategy call by McLaren which prompted Hamilton's retirement in China... so in the end, there were so many circumstances altering their fight that the fact that they actually finished tied in the championship only tells you that they were very close. And of course, there's the fact that 2007 was a particular singular season (switch to single tyre maker, no TC, etc.), and most notably, the obvious notion that Alonso pretty much went to war against his own team that season and is considered the lowest point of his career. WDC standings are definitely not the ultimate benchmark of driver performance, as showcased by Sainz and Verstappen's year together in which Sainz got 4 or 5 mechanical DNFs to Verstappen's one - or Rosberg's last F1 season in which he benefitted from Hamilton's reliability issues.

Anyway, the fact that there is an objective model which ranks drivers' performances compared to their teammates through their entire career can actually give us a much more honest vision that a single, very skewed and unrepresentative, data point - 2007 was an utter clusterfuck for Alonso, but also Hamilton's rookie season, so you'd have expected both drivers to have raised their game since then. And it's been 11 years already since that, so surely there's a lot more information that you could use to gain a bit more knowledge on who has been driving at a higher level.

Well, that, of course, or you can dismiss knowledge gained from objectively looking at raw data because it just doesn't fit in with your biased views. That went really well for the peeps in the US.


Mathematical models attempts to approximate to the ideal solution of a problem space. The architecture of the model and the quality of the data inputted into the model largely determines the quality of the result that you get out of it. Mathematical model tend to be designed for a specific class of problems, hence are inherently subjective. Mathematical models are really dumb tools with great skills. The objectivity of the result of a mathematical model rest largely on the user of the model and the choice of variables that he/she inputs into the model.

In short, mathematical model lacks the capability of being objective. I happen to design and use mathematical models for a living.

On the point about Alonso, l have not suggested that Hamilton is better than Alonso due to the Mclaren year when they were both teammates, but a complete analysis of their achievements todate. You forget that Alonso's high esteem originates from the fact that he defeated Schumacher twice driving a Renault car against Schumacher in a Ferrari. Though this feat was also achieved by Mika Hakkenan, the youthful Alonso grabbed the imagination of the F1 world.

I rate Alonso hugely. Like Alonso did to Schumacher, Hamilton and Vettel have emerged to claim the limelight. For diehard Alonso admirers, this is hard to accept. When one has to compare the quality of a driver to their immediate peers, one has to take into consideration all aspects of competition. We typically start with facts, hence the relative achievements is what we use to judge each driver. The potential of a driver is important but not neccessarily predominant in considering the relative superiority. If this were the case, Redbull or Mercedes would have snatched Alonso from Mclaren.

Mercedes did not, because they know they have a championship winning driver that can take on anyone on the grid, including Alonso in a championship winning car. Redbull for reasons already discussed above.

I really really lose respect for people that attempt to make unimportant the achievements of illustrious drivers simply because they have some prejudice against them. You don't like the guy, so you say his achievements are crap for whatever reasons, without proper respect for the commitments, hardwork, efforts and dedication that has resulted in those achievements. Attaining the records that Schumacher, Hamilton,. Vettel, Prost, Senna etc have achieve in their career are feats of giants to say the least.

[Bagwan]

Fernando brought a fire to F1 that I will miss , and I desperately hope he'll come back .
The greats are the ones that get cited when the best put-downs are thrown .
A phrase like "nobody , not even Lewis could drive that Williams car" comes to mind .

A great is one who wins .
But , a great can also be someone who doesn't , if the crowd deems he should have done so .

Alonso is all of that .
I'll miss him .

[Nitrodaze]

Fernando brought a fire to F1 that I will miss , and I desperately hope he'll come back .
The greats are the ones that get cited when the best put-downs are thrown .
A phrase like "nobody , not even Lewis could drive that Williams car" comes to mind .

A great is one who wins .
But , a great can also be someone who doesn't , if the crowd deems he should have done so .

Alonso is all of that .
I'll miss him .

Wise head Bagwan. I appreciate your well chosen word here. But l think we should not use the word "Great" too loosely. To say a driver is great must not be based on the emotional impact that the individual evokes in the F1 community. It should be based on supremacy of the individual above his peers of his time.
Winning world championships is not an easy feat. It is a very demanding and properly testing experience to emerge ahead in the midst of others also trying hard to supersede your efforts. To emerge the best of 20 races per season is a long and arduous challenge which require immense dedication, focus and determination. This also includes making the right choices to ensure he is better positioned to succeed above the competition.

The greats are the ones that take these tests repeatedly and ensure that they come out ahead of the rest. And the statistics show why they are and how they have managed to be ahead. I have thought many drivers in the past deserve or have done enough to be world champion but haven't. Eddie Irvine and Rubens Barrichello comes to mind.

I think we should reserve the word Great for those that actually achieve the measure of success that is not ordinarily available to even the most talented of drivers on the grid.And drivers like Michael Schumacher, Lewis Hamilton, Sabastien Vettel, Alain Prost and Ayton Senna; to name a few in recent times are in this very special group that we can easily say are great drivers. They command and evoke special emotion of their racecraft but support it with benchmark successes.

[Bagwan]

"Not even Eddie could drive that car".
"Not even Rubens could drive that car".

Nope , never heard anyone say either of those phrases .

Although both of those guys were fun to watch , they never had the ability to put everyone on the edge of their seat every time as Fernando has done .
And , they never seemed to me to have caused the same dread in a driver when showing up in his rear view mirrors .

I wasn't using the word "great" "loosely" at all .

[Big Ben]

Next time just submit a request to the greatness commission so you won't use unapproved adjectives for non-Hamilton drivers.

[Nitrodaze]

Next time just submit a request to the greatness commission so you won't use unapproved adjectives for non-Hamilton drivers.

:-) :-) touche pssssst

[Nitrodaze]

"Not even Eddie could drive that car".
"Not even Rubens could drive that car".

Nope , never heard anyone say either of those phrases .

Although both of those guys were fun to watch , they never had the ability to put everyone on the edge of their seat every time as Fernando has done .
And , they never seemed to me to have caused the same dread in a driver when showing up in his rear view mirrors .

I wasn't using the word "great" "loosely" at all .

I agree completely but Alonso could have been one of the great drivers but unfortunately isn't. He definitely is a brilliant driver and a double world champion who most of us expected to emulate the illustrious achievements of Michael Schumacher. The expectation set by Alonso's rise to two world championship was that he was the guy who like Schumacher would dominate the formula for years after Schumacher retires. Unfortunately, he didn't, hence why he has not met the criteria that would have warranted him to be called a great driver.

I appreciate the word great for some is synonymous to brilliant. I mean one of the GOAT which is not necessarily brilliant.

[Bagwan]

I agree completely but Alonso could have been one of the great drivers but unfortunately isn't. He definitely is a brilliant driver and a double world champion who most of us expected to emulate the illustrious achievements of Michael Schumacher. The expectation set by Alonso's rise to two world championship was that he was the guy who like Schumacher would dominate the formula for years after Schumacher retires. Unfortunately, he didn't, hence why he has not met the criteria that would have warranted him to be called a great driver.

I appreciate the word great for some is synonymous to brilliant. I mean one of the GOAT which is not necessarily brilliant.

The proper and fully approved formula for greatness , approved by the bagwan , himself , when the big "think about it" occurred a few minutes ago , states categorically that instilling fear when seen in a driver's rear view , or , indeed great satisfaction at passing him , no matter what he was driving , makes him one of the greats .

[N4D13]

The proper and fully approved formula for greatness , approved by the bagwan , himself , when the big "think about it" occurred a few minutes ago , states categorically that instilling fear when seen in a driver's rear view , or , indeed great satisfaction at passing him , no matter what he was driving , makes him one of the greats .
I don't recall a single driver who instilled more fear when seen in your mirrors than Yuji Ide. :p

[airshifter]

The proper and fully approved formula for greatness , approved by the bagwan , himself , when the big "think about it" occurred a few minutes ago , states categorically that instilling fear when seen in a driver's rear view , or , indeed great satisfaction at passing him , no matter what he was driving , makes him one of the greats .

I agree, and Alonso has been that driver many, many times. Had he made the right choices and landed in better cars, I think he would be close to or on par with any other records held by those that had such fortune. In terms of purely driving skill, I would find it hard to name any other driver in recent years that is better.

[Zico]

I'll miss Fernando big time... and he wasnt just great, he was fucking great! end of...

[Tazio]

I'll miss Fernando big time... and he wasnt just great, he was fucking great! end of...You better Hong Kong believe it!:bandit::angel:

[Bagwan]

I agree, and Alonso has been that driver many, many times. Had he made the right choices and landed in better cars, I think he would be close to or on par with any other records held by those that had such fortune. In terms of purely driving skill, I would find it hard to name any other driver in recent years that is better.

Right choices .
Climate change in all the teams he left , left him in bad luck .

He's not so disruptive , if you ask Fisichella , a guy he soundly beat .
But ask someone more affected by a confident toreador beside him and you'll get a different answer , or a pout .

[Duncan]

The proper and fully approved formula for greatness , approved by the bagwan , himself , when the big "think about it" occurred a few minutes ago , states categorically that instilling fear when seen in a driver's rear view...

Sooo... Daniil Kvyat?

[Nitrodaze]

Apparently, Alonso claims Redbull offered him Ricciado's seat and he rejected it. Horner is also quoted as saying that no offer was made to Alonso. The whole thing kind of stinks.

[Bagwan]

The whole thing kind of stinks.

You might be smelling Flavio .

[N4D13]

Apparently, Alonso claims Redbull offered him Ricciado's seat and he rejected it. Horner is also quoted as saying that no offer was made to Alonso. The whole thing kind of stinks.
Let me quote Joe Saward (https://www.motorsportweek.com/joeblogsf1/id/00294):


Well, I'll tell you a story. In Baku I was talking to a senior Red Bull Racing individual known as Christian and Flavio Briatore approached: "Oh God," Christian said (Sorry if this sounds like Pilgrim's Progess). "He's trying to sell me Alonso again. We don't want him." I was not surprised by responded: "You don't want him?". Christian looked to the skies and said: "We have no interest in him at all". I will leave it to you to figure out who is telling the truth in this case...

[Nitrodaze]

You might be smelling Flavio .

Ha ha :-)

[The Black Knight]

Apparently, Alonso claims Redbull offered him Ricciado's seat and he rejected it. Horner is also quoted as saying that no offer was made to Alonso. The whole thing kind of stinks.

Stinks of Alonso lying his ass off! This sounds like Alonso’s way of getting back at Horner for his comments saying he creates havoc wherever he goes. He has decided to create his own bit of havoc in return. Alonso’s anything but a saint and this behaviour is right up his alley. I don’t believe he did not know about crash gate either. The chances of him lying are very high.

[zako85]

Folks, wake up from the summer break. The Belgian GP will be this weekend.

[Tazio]

I thought Freds manager is Luis Garcia Abad :confused:

[N4D13]

I thought Freds manager is Luis Garcia Abad :confused:
He is, but Flavio is always around when the time comes to knock on teams' doors.

[Tazio]

and then the rains came!

[Tazio]

alright the boss :D

[N4D13]

Honda won't supply Alonso IndyCar entry (https://www.autosport.com/indycar/news/138748/honda-wont-supply-alonso-indycar-entry)

Hardly a surprise, anyway - the only thing that baffles me is that the news have come out so late, considering Alonso's acrimonious split with the team. Makes me wonder whether they'll give him a car with a Chevrolet engine for 2019, or if Alonso was just a bit too quick to leave F1 without having a backup plan in place.

[Tazio]

Alonso was just a bit too quick to leave F1 without having a backup plan in place.Don't worry about Fred he'll land on his feet!:champion:

[journeyman racer]

He'd be my pick to win the title next year.

[Bagwan]

Maybe gone , but maybe not for good .
"I feel I need to recharge my batteries a bit next year, but in 2020, of course it can be a possibility to have a full season in IndyCar, a full season back in F1, or a full season in another series."

[Tazio]

https://e3.365dm.com/18/08/768x432/skysports-f1-fernando-alonso_4389967.jpg He'll be back!:cool:
:angel:

[Nitrodaze]

https://e2.365dm.com/18/12/768x432/skysports-f1-conclusions_4508492.jpg?20181204122108
A fitting farewell as Fernando's first teammate at Mclaren hugs him good bye. Adversary gives way to mutual respect.