WRC Driver Conduct On Road Sections - Case Tänak at Monte Carlo [Archive]

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 16:29

https://twitter.com/peachaparacing/status/957725243279323137

After seeing the above video the heart of the rally fan in me was warmed up for a short fleeting moment, but quickly a voice of reason took over and I realised this is actually absolutely horrible promotion for the sport that has potential to really damage it if allowed to continue. Rallying should be done on the stages and showboating like this in public traffic should be totally condemned. Yes I know, he didn't endanger anyone in this clip, he was sliding so slowly that he didn't even probably break the speed limit and the cars are made to be driven like that, he can slide safely like that with eyes closed and with one hand on the wheel etc. etc., that's not the point, but it's really about the example this shows. You are out there promoting Toyota and Microsoft and you conduct yourself like this in public traffic, showboating for a couple of fans? No. That just won't do anymore, it's 2018 not 1988. I would make a serious example case out of Mr. Tänak and hand out a heavy penalty, disqualify him from Monte Carlo results and ban him for a couple of events. No fines or warnings or nonsense like that, just give him a good hard penalty. That will teach him and set an example and warning for everyone else. Unfortunately not all the other road users are rally fans and doesn't FIA have a high agenda on improving road traffic safety anyway? This is not exactly in line with that. I also very highly doubt that showboating in public roads is in line with the values that Toyota wants to promote through their WRC programme.

Don't get me wrong, this kind of road section driving has been part of WRC since day one and I have seen much, much worse. I have seen drivers take road sections in stage speed to make it in time for a time control, paying absolutely no regard for the safety of other road users. And I know drivers warming up their tires during the road sections is still the norm today. But we can't look back and think that everything that was ok in the past should continue to be ok now or in the future as that's a good way to slowly kill the sport. It's time to start to take some actions. If you are late for time control, tough luck, you will drive slowly according to speed limits or you are out of the rally. If you have to start the stage with a bit colder tires, tough luck, you take the first few corners a bit slower and drive according to the tire temperatures. If you showboat on road sections, you are out and banned from competing for a while.

Tarmop

29th January 2018, 16:47

Lol..."it was just slippy". This snowflake era is really annoying and makes me feel like everything is doomed (other things added).

ToyotaFan95

29th January 2018, 16:49

Disqualify him and ban him for couple of events for this??????
I am not sure if this is trolling or not.

EstWRC

29th January 2018, 16:50

and you registered here just to say this ? oh man...

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 16:52

It's about setting an example. And there's no better way to set a good example than give a proper penalty that feels somewhere. This is a professional sport with big corporations promoting their brands and if professional drivers set this kind of example of how to conduct themselves on public roads, it's a problem.

Mr C1412

29th January 2018, 16:52

Wind your neck in. Good job most rally fans aren’t dullards like yourself and thought it was fun

seb_sh

29th January 2018, 16:54

Nice try Jari-Matti!

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 16:57

and you registered here just to say this ? oh man...

Yeah I did, but to be fair I have been a member here since 2005, but haven't posted for years and couldn't access my old account anymore. I am a big fan of WRC and it doesn't need this kind of publicity in my opinion and I wanted to raise discussion about it. WRC has a lot of positive publicity and buzz going for it at the moment with the great leaps done with broadcasting for this year and I would strive to eliminate this kind of behaviour with hard hand.

For the same reason I am extremely happy Poland is no longer a WRC event after the shambles that was the last year's event. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy watching clips from the Group B era and early 90s as much as the next guy, but there's a good reason that kind of crowd behaviour has no place in modern WRC. Times move on and WRC has to move with them.

Mr C1412

29th January 2018, 16:57

If you’re that worried about it stay at home and play with your cotton wool

Mr C1412

29th January 2018, 17:00

Tänak should be getting bonus points for driving like a legend on the road sections

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 17:04

This is how Jackie Stewart must have felt in the early 1970s when trying to talk reason. I don't get what is so hard to understand about the difference of driving on public roads and driving on a rally stage, which is what the sport is about. Or how this kind of unnecessary showboating might be damaging for rallying, when taking off the rally fan's glasses.

J_n_z

29th January 2018, 17:09

If you are a woman fair enough, if you are a man think a little... life is not all about safety and political correction. If all fathers act like this, in 20 years there will be no rally drivers.

AnttiL

29th January 2018, 17:09

I think it was also stupid from Tänak, that could have been a dangerous situation with the guys having pulled over on the road. One of them jumps immediately in the middle of the road as he sees Tänak pass. If someone would have been driving after Tänak, the guy could have been run over. A rally car is probably noisy enough to cover the sound of a normal car behind.

Mr C1412

29th January 2018, 17:11

Mr C1412

29th January 2018, 17:13

I should havd said how many members of the public being killed on road sections

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 17:17

You can’t compare this to F1 in the 60s where drivers were being killed at almost each race meeting.

How many members of the public have been killed by WRC competitors? The answer is negligible, so it’s not an issue.

I wasn't comparing the incident to F1 in the sixties or anything like that, but the baffling reactions and opinions I am facing by members of rally community to a behavior that in my view should quite clearly be regarded as unnecessary for a sport that I love.

Integrale

29th January 2018, 17:30

Ott is in control, it's completely fine from a safety point of view. But I agree about the perception it creates among people who aren't a fan of our sport. Social media ruins a lot.

He shouldn't be banned though, what's wrong with Tomi asking Ott not to do that again?

T16

29th January 2018, 17:35

AnttiL

29th January 2018, 17:41

Also this twitter thread is discussing it https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/status/957854713227239424

CahunaKiwi

29th January 2018, 17:45

Without knowing all the circumstances behind the video I'd blame the event organisers.

I have competed on rallies where I can cruise along the transit stages and still have plenty of time before checking into a time control. I have also competed on rallies where I did a special stage with no issues and found I had 2 mins to get to the next time control (10km away). Did I drive the transit route like a special stage? Possibly... :-) It's always been like this. Ever since I was a kid spectating back in the early 80's, every time I watched (or was involved with organising/competing on rallies) I saw competitors ducking in and out of traffic in order to avoid being late to the next time control. Still happens at every rally I go to today. If the rally organiser has not allowed sufficient time between time controls then the drivers will do whatever they need to do in order to reach the next time control on-time. If you were Tanak, competing for the world championship, driving your a** off to gain tenths of a second in a stage and your representing a team who are spending millions to win the championship, are you going to drive sedately on a touring section and get a lateness penalty or are you going to drive as quickly as you can to get to the next time control and check in on-time? It's not right and it isn't actually a fair position to place the driver in (break the road rules or lose the rally), hence why I say it's possibly the organiser's fault for not allowing enough time to transit between stages.

Of course if Tanak decided to stop for 10 mins to fix a problem with the car and is driving like this because of a delay of his own making then I agree driving like this is unacceptable (albeit understandable, as he doesn't want any time penalties). Regardless, I doubt he is driving like this just to showboat. Penalties for being caught by the police during touring stages can be stringent (aside from the delays they cause) so drivers do drive within the law and try to avoid attracting attention if possible. Sometimes they get caught and penalised; on Rally Sweden in 2011 Petter Solberg's co-driver had to drive the last special stage of the rally because Petter lost his licence on the touring stage after speeding.

But I do agree, it's not a good look for the sport.

cali

29th January 2018, 17:45

Isn't this getting too far now? Same thing with Ogier looking at his phone on the liasion. I think there is a point where everything goes just too far and there is a lot of IF's everywhere. Life happens and life would be a tad bit boring thus meaningless if everythin is covered safety-wise (which is unrealistic). The speed was barely 40-50 kph, the guy had a small drift for the sake of some spectators, conditions were slippery. There's far more important things to be worried at....

EstWRC

29th January 2018, 17:47

and it just went viral in estonian media with headlines like "Tänak was in dangerous traffic situation!"

so much fuss about nothing.

tommeke_B

29th January 2018, 17:51

This is nothing, seen far worse than this... You can't do anything "fun" anymore nowadays, there's always someone who will interfere to tell it's wrong/dangerous etc. Apparently we have this kind of people on the forum as well, even implying a driver should be banned for this... It's a sad world we're going to. ;)

AnttiL

29th January 2018, 17:55

Most of the anti-motorsport people usually argue "motorsport makes kids drive dangerously when imitating their heroes on the road", and usually the counter argument from motorsport people is "but motorsport gives them a chance to drive fast in a safe environment", but this something else

Mintexmemory

29th January 2018, 17:58

Right - no gender insults please. This is a serious point. We are on the inside looking out, the view from outside is truly different. As for spectator fatalities, one is one too many (people have short memories but I'm sure Elfyn and Haden don't).
Liaison sections are often too tightly timed - I witnessed Meeke almost cause a 'head-on' on 2014 RMC. Protasov however was great entertainment when he overtook me on a mountain downhil section going into a 180 tight left! No bans suggested by me but showboating is BAD publicity.

spiderem

29th January 2018, 17:58

honestly i don't see what's wrong. It a professional driver, driving a 4wd with studded tyres on a snowy surface. He looks well in control, all the stages he has to have perfect lines and avoid drifting, let him enjoy a bit of fun drive in the liaison. (and for the fan too).

SubaruNorway

29th January 2018, 18:01

Never very clever passing a car by 50cm, what if a kid ran out just as he passed?

Indreq

29th January 2018, 18:03

I believe with their limited slip front and middle diffs (i dont know if they can be switched to full "open" for road section?) car is tuned to slide little on those slippery conditions, otherwise it would be very-very understeering. His angle of oversteer is very modest, speed is far from any limits (legal limits or safety limits) and frankly i dont see the point of whining. The ones who take this as a example and permission to behave likewise, are clearly idiots. Right now i am in northern Sweden with 3-5 feet of snow everywhere, most roads are pure ice - and in crests and bends quite often regular drivers press pedal more than absolutely necessary to wag the tail. Its fun. Its safe. Nobody takes any offense. Grow up.

Ucci

29th January 2018, 18:08

Tänak should be getting bonus points for driving like a legend on the road sections
100% agree. It is a part of WRC show. Like warming tyres&brakes. Nobody was in danger, nothing to add more. Case closed.

spiderem

29th January 2018, 18:11

Never very clever passing a car by 50cm, what if a kid ran out just as he passed?

what if an avalanche would have cross the road after Tanak's passage? Do you blame the car being too loud and starting the avalanche? Do you blame the guy for parking at the wrong spot? do you blame the authority for not installing avalanche protection? i mean with "what if" we can all stay at home and follow every rule, yet still not be guaranteed to stay safe...

Mk2 RS2000

29th January 2018, 18:39

"IF" the dog had not stopped for a leak he would have caught the rabbit.

No wonder Europe is in the state that it is today when we have the level of pedantic nit picking attitudes of its residents as displayed here. Bloody hell, have you never driven on an iced up road let alone in a car with the horsepower that a WRC car has on tap. The slightest movement of the throttle pedal in a decent road car is sufficient to provoke wheel spin in these conditions.

mknight

29th January 2018, 18:44

The driving by Tanak is not that bad, the only problem for me is the close pass of the car.

However the general problem of not "behaving" on road sections is there and currently FIA and event organizers do little to prevent it. In some ways it's even encouraged. If a crew for any reason is delayed and them manage to catch up by driving illegally fast on the road section they are "rewarded" by not getting a penalty. If they keep within legal limits they get punished by time penalty. Only very rarely they get some penalty (Solberg in 2011 Sweden when he lost his driving license and Patterson had to drive the last short stage).

In 2017 there were at least 2 horrible examples:
Ogier in Poland after having issues with starting the car went at 170 km/h on a road with 90 allowed, then took a roundabout in the wrong direction (he got fined about a 1000 euro for that but that was all).
Hanninen in Finland after his suspension fix doing over 170 km/h on public roads.

Thing is, once anything happens in a situation like that or it gets reported on extensively by the press, manufacturers might simply pull the plug and leave. Doesn't matter what rallyfans think about it. They can try to explain left and right how "safe" it was, but the series will just end. We have seen that in 1986.

I would encourage FIA to introduce some speed-monitoring similar to what is already done at Dakar. Should be very simple to do.

Tarmop

29th January 2018, 18:50

You have a 4wd rallycar on a slippery surface with wiiiiide tires. It`s hard to drive it "steadily", not like a regular roadcar, especially when slowing down because of a car stopping in a bad place to have a look in front and then gently (this is quite gently in these conditions for that kind of a car) go past him. Worst case scenario would have been understeering into a ditch.:D

Integrale

29th January 2018, 18:50

Isn't this getting too far now? Same thing with Ogier looking at his phone on the liasion. I think there is a point where everything goes just too far and there is a lot of IF's everywhere. Life happens and life would be a tad bit boring thus meaningless if everythin is covered safety-wise (which is unrealistic)...
I couldn't disagree more about the phone. It's a pest.

Rallyper

29th January 2018, 18:52

This had been nothing if Tanak had a car without noice, like an Vauxhall Astra or something. And no revs.

The speed was low and the driver had full control.

The whats and ifs isn´t a motivation for blaiming him either.

the sniper

29th January 2018, 19:02

This is how Jackie Stewart must have felt in the early 1970s when trying to talk reason.

You should give Jackie a call and share the story of your own great struggle...

Is this forum being trolled or has the increased popularity brought F1 darlings out? First we're being asked whether Loeb or Ogier is cutest. Now they're crying because Tanak put on a slow sideways show for some fans and saying he should be banned...

Which was potentially more dangerous. Tanak doing what he did fully in control or any random Tom, Dick or Harry driving 'normally' in those conditions who doesn't have any experience in those conditions? There would have been far more of the latter about causing far more risk without putting on any show... It's a scary world out there!!!Why are people talking about tight road section timing here too? He just got the back out for the boys. If he was in a rush, he wouldn't be pretending he's in a Mk2 Escort.

Questionable stuff occurs on road sections sometimes, with risks, no doubt. This 'incident' was nothing though.

and it just went viral in estonian media with headlines like "Tänak was in dangerous traffic situation!"

so much fuss about nothing.

The price of fame. The attraction of the media vultures. There are some advantages of rallying being positioned as an obscure sport in the UK!

cali

29th January 2018, 19:06

I couldn't disagree more about the phone. It's a pest.I wouldn't go as far as saying it is okay to have your nose in phone while driving but then again today people make a big fuss over small things. Is he worse person now? I'm just utterly annoyed by this morale hypocrisy

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AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 19:10

Why are people talking about tight road section timing here too? He just got the back out for the boys. If he was in a rush, he wouldn't be pretending he's in a Mk2 Escort.

And that's exactly what makes it even more condemnable for me.

And people shouldn't try to justify it with the car and conditions. Is it a lot more fun to drive a WRC car on these conditions like Tänak does on the video? Yes definitely. Is it actually necessary and safer for other road users? No. Besides a modern WRC car has a myriad of engine map settings and diff settings to take advantage of for road driving vs. stage driving all adjustable from the steering wheel.

AnttiL

29th January 2018, 19:12

Is this forum being trolled or has the increased popularity brought F1 darlings out?

I know the original poster from another forum from years back, he's a big rallying fan. I bet many of you have enjoyed his video work on youtube.

Actually outside this thread I have seen motorsport fans mostly reacting negatively to Tänak's drifting.

cali

29th January 2018, 19:18

I know the original poster from another forum from years back, he's a big rallying fan. I bet many of you have enjoyed his video work on youtube.

Actually outside this thread I have seen motorsport fans mostly reacting negatively to Tänak's drifting.That's why human race is doomed. We started as hunters to have something to eat and have come this far...I'm sorry, I feel there is not much hope left for the western civilization. It's just not this but looking how we have "progressed" to come to this.....

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dimviii

29th January 2018, 19:23

seems Tanak has been a pain in ass for Finns

SubaruNorway

29th January 2018, 19:26

what if an avalanche would have cross the road after Tanak's passage? Do you blame the car being too loud and starting the avalanche? Do you blame the guy for parking at the wrong spot? do you blame the authority for not installing avalanche protection? i mean with "what if" we can all stay at home and follow every rule, yet still not be guaranteed to stay safe...

That's probably the most illogical post i have seen in my entire life.
It's not so hard to understand, just don't do it at a rally.
I've had to throw the car in the ditch myself due to rally drivers thinking they are immortal and it's not that much fun.

At least western Europe seem to have more common sense, good thing the rest of the world doesn't have a driving culture like Russia, I've never been so scared in traffic.

cali

29th January 2018, 19:28

seems Tanak has been a pain in ass for FinnsNah I actually get their idea. The thing which bugs me is the western civilization has lived in their own bubble too long. Coming from the other side of idiocy (Soviet Union) I now see different side of progression of stupidity. It's like EU trying to decide what is the right curve of the banana :D

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Tarmop

29th January 2018, 19:29

That's probably the most illogical post i have seen in my entire life.
It's not so hard to understand, just don't do it at a rally.
I've had to throw the car in the ditch myself due to rally drivers thinking they are immortal and it's not that much fun.

At least western Europe seem to have more common sense, good thing the rest of the world doesn't have a driving culture like Russia, I've never been so scared in traffic.

Problems with geography?

cali

29th January 2018, 19:32

Franky

29th January 2018, 19:33

At least western Europe seem to have more common sense, good thing the rest of the world doesn't have a driving culture like Russia, I've never been so scared in traffic.

If Russia scares you, then you haven't seen anything yet.

But on topic. I think that you've blown it out of proportion with this case, Antti.

SubaruNorway

29th January 2018, 19:33

Problems with geography?

I'm not counting Russia as Europe if that's what you are alluding to.

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 19:37

It's nothing to do with nationality. It's nothing to do with Ott as a person. This is about the sport and how it's presented not only to us rally fans, but to people who don't share our passion. If Latvala or Lappi took that bit of road the same way my opinion and words would not be one iota different I can guarantee you that. And maybe they did, who knows? But the fact is here we have video of Ott and I would personally make a warning example out of him as a clear gesture that actions are being started to take against this kind of road driving behavior. Can we stay on topic please and leave out all the silly remarks regarding nationalism, snowflake generation, world being doomed etc.

dimviii

29th January 2018, 19:43

the sniper

29th January 2018, 19:44

And that's exactly what makes it even more condemnable for me.

And people shouldn't try to justify it with the car and conditions. Is it a lot more fun to drive a WRC car on these conditions like Tänak does on the video? Yes definitely. Is it actually necessary and safer for other road users? No. Besides a modern WRC car has a myriad of engine map settings and diff settings to take advantage of for road driving vs. stage driving all adjustable from the steering wheel.

For me the only risk is how close he got to the cars, as theoretically someone could have ran out from between the vehicles. Though I can imagine anyone going up that hill getting similarly close and posing a similar risk. Hanging the back out a bit is rather irrelevant, he'd be in as much or more control of the situation than many other users of that road travelling 'normally'.

I know the original poster from another forum from years back, he's a big rallying fan. I bet many of you have enjoyed his video work on youtube.

Actually outside this thread I have seen motorsport fans mostly reacting negatively to Tänak's drifting.

I've got a lot of respect for his video work, they're masterpieces, if we are indeed talking to Antti Kalhola. But I find it amazing that with everything that has occurred in the WRC over the last couple of years, this is what spurs anyone to start conversing with the forum.

Like I say, dubious stuff goes on on road sections sometimes that is highly questionable and risky, that should be dealt with. This was nothing though and the risk posed above 'normal' driving was marginal if anything, not really worth getting worked up about. Should someone advise Ott to avoid it for PR reasons, sadly yes. Should he be disqualified from the rally? Don't be ridiculous.

Indreq

29th January 2018, 19:44

Nah I actually get their idea. The thing which bugs me is the western civilization has lived in their own bubble too long. Coming from the other side of idiocy (Soviet Union) I now see different side of progression of stupidity. It's like EU trying to decide what is the right curve of the banana :D

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I was waiting for this discussion to get there :D Having also been there, i can see that we are actually walking in circles. First there was communist ideology in some perverted socialist union, where strange things were condemned, then came liberation and perhaps too much freedom, where crime flourished and following law was arbitrary for many people, but where also were more free than they had been in long time, and now we are getting to new kind of controlled culture, time of snowflakes, SJWs, people losing their ability to think and to mind their own business. In principle i agree that everybody has to follow the law and what Tänak did was probably illegal to some degree. But I also support the freedom to break the law in some minor and harmless ways just time-to-time - after all, progress comes from change, many todays laws can be traced back to some people breaking old laws which has led to establishing new ones. Use of common sense should be protected at all times, especially from enforcing excessive punishments for minor breakings of law - like some dude demands disqualifications and stuff here. It like North Korea, where whole families are inprisoned if one member of family picks up rotting potato from roadside. And this is not even to make example - its their law, so is this justified?

cali

29th January 2018, 19:48

I was waiting for this discussion to get there :D Having also been there, i can see that we are actually walking in circles. First there was communist ideology in some perverted socialist union, where strange things were condemned, then came liberation and perhaps too much freedom, where crime flourished and following law was arbitrary for many people, but where also were more free than they had been in long time, and now we are getting to new kind of controlled culture, time of snowflakes, SJWs, people losing their ability to think and to mind their own business. In principle i agree that everybody has to follow the law and what Tänak did was probably illegal to some degree. But I also support the freedom to break the law in some minor and harmless ways just time-to-time - after all, progress comes from change, many todays laws can be traced back to some people breaking old laws which has led to establishing new ones. Use of common sense should be protected at all times, especially from enforcing excessive punishments for minor breakings of law - like some dude demands disqualifications and stuff here. It like North Korea, where whole families are inprisoned if one member of family picks up rotting potato from roadside. And this is not even to make example - its their law, so is this justified?Spot on mate!

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Franky

29th January 2018, 19:51

Can we stay on topic please and leave out all the silly remarks regarding nationalism, snowflake generation, world being doomed etc.

But can you really leave it out? Okay, nationalism isn't on topic. But others? It's like being politically correct? How far are you willing to go to please the system?

It's like having politically correct PR-trained monkeys as drivers who tell no matter what that the car is great, the stage was great, everything is awesome (And the Everything is Awesome song from the Lego Movie becomes the new WRC theme song) and so on.

It's life. Things come and go. And this kind of media attention lasts only as long as people keep clicking. And besides that next Monday I'm sure that 90% of the people who clicked, won't even remember it. Except the rally forums as the damn discussion is a vicious circle.

If you'd want to do have some common sense, then you need to crack down on the massive infringements like the crazy speedings. And if you still want to punish anything that doesn't comply with the system even then, then do it step by step. Or even better, autonomous road mode.

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 20:01

I've got a lot of respect for his video work, they're masterpieces, if we are indeed talking to Antti Kalhola. But I find it amazing that with everything that has occurred in the WRC over the last couple of years, this is what spurs anyone to start conversing with the forum.

Yes admittedly I am not an active forum poster on any forum, but this time I saw a valid point worth raising and did so, but yeah I also knew what to expect when posting it on a motorsport forum. I also raised the same issue on a Finnish forum and surprisingly everyone who commented there agreed with my view, which I thought was surprising. But yes I'm very passionate about rallying, WRC and motorsport in general, but I also believe WRC should keep pushing ahead and not getting stuck or accepting bad habits just because something has always been ok or accepted. And you have to start somewhere if you want to take action against irresponsible road driving and here's the case to kick the campaign off.

ESTR

29th January 2018, 20:01

Guy who post this thread, get over it. I bet you get some fines as well I I bet you didn't like it that much. And then blame all others except yourself. Just get over it. Don't be a kid and grow up...

mknight

29th January 2018, 20:11

see how close Ogier is doing donuts near a marshall.
my suggest is ban from 2018 championsip,and take back his 2017 championship.
we have to protect our sport.

https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2018/photos/rallye_automobile_de_monte_carlo_2018/jdu_20180128-dsc_0583.jpg

*facepalm*

This is totally the same.

Good luck "protecting our sport" once a rallydriver causes a crash on a publlic road while he is doing 170 km/h cause he "has to catch time control"

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 20:12

But can you really leave it out? Okay, nationalism isn't on topic. But others? It's like being politically correct? How far are you willing to go to please the system?

It's like having politically correct PR-trained monkeys as drivers who tell no matter what that the car is great, the stage was great, everything is awesome (And the Everything is Awesome song from the Lego Movie becomes the new WRC theme song) and so on..

It's not about political correctness though really, it's about common sense for me. I like when drivers speak their minds and I'm a big fan of Ogier for that, he hasn't been afraid to say what he thinks and I like that a lot in a champion. So no, I don't want "corporate puppies" driving the cars. But I definitely don't want rally drivers showboating in public roads in liaison sections either. I don't want that kind of "expression of personality".

Tarmop

29th January 2018, 20:15

Well, if You are trying to save the world, then don`t complain about it here. Write to organizers, FIA, Mäkinen, Toyoda, french Police, Tänak...

Augury

29th January 2018, 20:16

NOT being politically correct, people wondering if Loeb actually was a good driver and now this shit. Crazy times.

CahunaKiwi

29th January 2018, 20:18

mknight

29th January 2018, 20:22

Btw. do you remember Daniel Carlsson and the "WRADD" campaign? (Rally drivers against drunk driving).

Was some epic PR when the year after he got stopped by the police driving drunk.

Indreq

29th January 2018, 20:24

Antti do you pretend to not understand or you really dont? Nobody is protecting here going 170kmh on opposite side of road or anything like this. What gets people ticked off is your black or white attitude, comparing this kind of violation to Tänaks harmless fun and demanding excessive punishment for this. If you really cant tell the difference then perhaps its better if you stay home and dont go outside at all. Because guess what - in real world punishment depends on severity of crime. You get one punishment for murder and police may overlook at all if you cross the road in wrong place but dont endanger anybody (including yourself).

Integrale

29th January 2018, 20:24

A lot of tough internet warriors here. This videoclip probably fuels a negative attitude towards motorsport among people who are not passionate about it. So it's perfectly logical to be a fan and at the same time hope this doesn't happen too often.

About the phone: nobody should ever watch his phone while driving. You're driving something that potentially can kill somebody.

dimviii

29th January 2018, 20:26

*facepalm*

This is totally the same.

Good luck "protecting our sport" once a rallydriver causes a crash on a publlic road while he is doing 170 km/h cause he "has to catch time control"

its exactly the same.According to your sceptic this marshall is at possible position for accident.Even the crowd.
Nobody said that speeding with 170km/h at public roads is right.Only you said something like that.
Tanak was inside speed limits,and whatever possible danger could happen to these guys,could happen to everybody public driver with speed inside limits.
Yes Tanak can avoid much better a possible accident to happen,from every public driver out there,even sideways.

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 20:27

The problem with everyone here saying "it was safe, he was in control, it's being blown out of proportion" is that to the general public who know nothing about motorsport and see this happening it reinforces all the negative stereotypes about boy racers and people hooning around in cars. It reflects badly on the sport when competitors drive like this in a public setting (not on closed roads) and tars legitimate motorsport competitors with the same brush.

I have been organising club motorsport events in NZ for over 25 years (and involved in the club longer than that). We have in the past lost the use of public roads because of competitors driving on the touring route in exactly this manner, with residents who saw it putting in complaints to council or the private property owners that prevented us from using the same roads in the future.

Exactly. And that's my main issue here. In my opening post I made it clear that this has nothing to do with Ott not being in control of the situation or danger being created in the video. It's about the image portrayed of the sport. And for me the main issue is that it goes so much against how I as a fan see WRC and just gives the plain wrong image to someone who doesn't understand the sport. In essence, for me Tänak with his behaviour on the video is bringing the sport into disrepute to use the FIA language.

Tarmop

29th January 2018, 20:34

Well yes, but the nonsense about ruining ones season with DSQ and bans from future events is too much. Normal people talk and improve themselves, if not, get a logical punishment...a fine for example.

AnttiL

29th January 2018, 20:42

While I agree with most of what my namesake is saying here, I think a fine and a warning would be enough, issuing bans or taking away points would do harm to the sport itself.

SubaruNorway

29th January 2018, 20:43

A fine would be in place.
If you did this in Norway you would get a minimum of 3 months without license, not a question about it.
If you get caught in a parking lot with nobody around you can get away with it though.

RM98

29th January 2018, 20:44

Why is this controversial? He saw some spectators filming and gave them a bit of a show. All of us would enjoy it if we were there.

cali

29th January 2018, 20:46

While I agree with most of what my namesake is saying here, I think a fine and a warning would be enough, issuing bans or taking away points would do harm to the sport itself.A fine for what? Speeding? The guy was problably under speed limit

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T16

29th January 2018, 20:51

Can anyone say if he could have actually gone much slower and without such sideways motion?
To me it looks a lot like a 400bhp car, incredibly sensitive throttle, on tarmac tyres, potentially without studs, going uphill (more power required) and cornering.... on snow.
Everything happens a lot slower on snow and a slide takes a lot less speed and cornering force than it would have done on gravel or dry tarmac.
Possibly a lot safer like that than if he just tried to cruise up and had potential understeer issues?
Yeah, it may look like he is close to the guy on the corner, but it’s a lot easier to let a car drift away from that chap, who is on the inside of the corner, than it would have been to get the car to make a tighter turn, if the chap was on the outside.
I get it might look quite dramatic, but I really don’t think it is.

Integrale

29th January 2018, 20:51

Why is this controversial? He saw some spectators filming and gave them a bit of a show. All of us would enjoy it if we were there.
Because there exist people who don't like rallysport. Probably most of the politicians in my country would rather have it abolished. Don't give them ammunition, it's not that hard.

CahunaKiwi

29th January 2018, 20:54

Why is this controversial? He saw some spectators filming and gave them a bit of a show. All of us would enjoy it if we were there.

We as enthusiasts enjoy watching that car control. But what if those people parked and filming were not motorsport enthusiasts and were instead filming because they were looking for something controversial? They see a competitor "out of control" on a public road. They record it and send the video to the media. The media latch onto it. Hundreds more people who dislike cars and motorsport start voicing their displeasure. Pressure comes on politicians and council to prevent the event from running next year. Toyota gets negative publicity. Motorsport gets a negative image in the public's mind (because we are all "hoons" out there endangering the public for our own, selfish enjoyment).

It's all about the image being portrayed. Arguably top-level competitors should be held to a higher level of accountability than normal citizens because they represent the sport as a whole to the general public. I don't think anyone should get a ban for doing something like this but they should definitely get a warning at the least. And as I said earlier I think that the organisers should be making sure their time schedules are planned such that competitors don't have to drive like this simply to get to the next time control on time.

Tarmop

29th January 2018, 20:56

Tarmop

29th January 2018, 20:58

We as enthusiasts enjoy watching that car control. But what if those people parked and filming were not motorsport enthusiasts and were instead filming because they were looking for something controversial? They see a competitor "out of control" on a public road. They record it and send the video to the media. The media latch onto it. Hundreds more people who dislike cars and motorsport start voicing their displeasure. Pressure comes on politicians and council to prevent the event from running next year. Toyota gets negative publicity. Motorsport gets a negative image in the public's mind (because we are all "hoons" out there endangering the public for our own, selfish enjoyment).

It's all about the image being portrayed. Arguably top-level competitors should be held to a higher level of accountability than normal citizens because they represent the sport as a whole to the general public. I don't think anyone should get a ban for doing something like this but they should definitely get a warning at the least. And as I said earlier I think that the organisers should be making sure their time schedules are planned such that competitors don't have to drive like this simply to get to the next time control on time.

They shouldn`t stop in a dangerous place then, where it`s tricky to pass because of ice and a 4wd WRC car can get a bit wild. Most definitely they were encouraging fans.

the sniper

29th January 2018, 20:59

And as I said earlier I think that the organisers should be making sure their time schedules are planned such that competitors don't have to drive like this simply to get to the next time control on time.

I don't see why people think this was a factor. Seems clear to me he was just hanging the back out for the fans.

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 21:02

CahunaKiwi

29th January 2018, 21:05

I don't see why people think this was a factor. Seems clear to me he was just hanging the back out for the fans.

I'm raising it as a possible factor, not a definite cause - I don't know as I haven't looked at the time schedule. I do know that in the past unreasonable time schedules have definitely been a factor in this type of behaviour.

mknight

29th January 2018, 21:06

its exactly the same.According to your sceptic this marshall is at possible position for accident.Even the crowd.
Nobody said that speeding with 170km/h at public roads is right.Only you said something like that.
Tanak was inside speed limits,and whatever possible danger could happen to these guys,could happen to everybody public driver with speed inside limits.
Yes Tanak can avoid much better a possible accident to happen,from every public driver out there,even sideways.

Case a) Showing-off in a closed-out parking space for racecars with race-marshalls close and the crowd behind a barrier being watched by the same marshalls.

Case b) "Showing-off" on a public road close to people standing in the open next to a car

Totally the same.

spiderem

29th January 2018, 21:08

few montes back, there was this video of Loeb passing by a gendarme by what it looked like only few centimeters. Everybody went crazy and people said this was very unsafe situation and really bad things could have happened, what if blabla blabla. Few hours later the onboard video came out, turn out that the gendarme was walking away from the racing line, loeb could see him from a fair distance, and he was in total control with nothing unsafe... So i would say that this short clip from Tanak is very much exagerated by the angle, the noise, whatever you name it. And good luck to find any formal offense to the code de la route to give him a fine. Maybe not putting his indicators when over taking the car?

Tarmop

29th January 2018, 21:08

Case a) Showing-off in a closed-out parking space for racecars with race-marshalls close and the crowd behind a barrier being watched by the same marshalls.

Case b) "Showing-off" on a public road close to people standing in the open next to a car

Totally the same.

If you have driven a car and/or know something about physics then you should also know, where the car is being pulled in these kind of situations. Now compare it to where they were standing.

dimviii

29th January 2018, 21:10

the sniper

29th January 2018, 21:20

Case a) Showing-off in a closed-out parking space for racecars with race-marshalls close and the crowd behind a barrier being watched by the same marshalls.

Case b) "Showing-off" on a public road close to people standing in the open next to a car

Totally the same.

I honestly believe Ogier doing donuts on the high street in Llandudno at the end of Rally GB, like in situation A, is far more dangerous than what Ott did here. Yet he's done that in full sight of all the rally officials and Police (road still subject to Road Traffic Act) multiple years and nobody seems to be concerned about punishing him for the blatant risk taken, showing off...

Indreq

29th January 2018, 21:21

I am in favour of a bigger punishment simply because it would mean something then. It would send out a message to other drivers as well as to the public that this kind of road behavior is not tolerated and WRC as a sport does not represent or align itself with this type of road driving. I would at the very least take his points away, no one is sending him to jail.

Oh come on with your message sending. What about those 170kmh-in-public guys then? Life in prison? Perhaps execution? That would definately send message. With this kind of over the top attitude you are not delivering any message. You only create conflict. And this is probably worse to the sport than if this harmless fun goes entirely unpunished.

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 21:29

Oh come on with your message sending. What about those 170kmh-in-public guys then? Life in prison? Perhaps execution? That would definately send message.

No, just a ban from competition for a certain time period and probably also driving license away by simply following the country's road traffic rules where the infringement happened.

Tarmop

29th January 2018, 21:33

Stupid, utterly stupid. How can we know that it wasn`t staged? Videos made by third persons and then discussed by fourth aren`t and shouldn`t be subject to any punishment. Playing police isn`t nice, it`s...

EstWRC

29th January 2018, 21:35

Dude says he is passionate about Motorsport and then wants its competitors to be banned

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 21:39

Dude says he is passionate about Motorsport and then wants its competitors to be banned

Yes, passionate about the sport. And I'd much rather ban individuals involved in the sport if it will prolong the survival of the sport itself.

Tarmop

29th January 2018, 21:40

Still utterly stupid. Passionate about THE sport ( sport in general: competition that shows who is the best, not who is the best theoretically /on paper)??? I mean, making conclusions based on an amateur video and demanding absolutely horrendous punishments to a pilot and team capable of making the series much much more interesting. Like said, reminds N.- Korea.

Try fishing, it`s good to calm oneself (personal experience), winter should also be nice there, also great fun.

E: I believe that driving schools in this region school their pupils to drive safely on winter roads and say that going a bit sideways is nothing to be afraid of.

RM98

29th January 2018, 21:45

No, just a ban from competition for a certain time period and probably also driving license away by simply following the country's road traffic rules where the infringement happened.

This is just ridiculous. He drifted a car in a corner where spectators were filming. He was not even speeding! Are you sure you're a rally fan?

AnttiK7

29th January 2018, 21:50

This is just ridiculous. He drifted a car in a corner where spectators were filming. He was not even speeding! Are you sure you're a rally fan?

I was responding to the 170kph on public roads example with that. In Tänak's case I would take his points away still at the very least for bringing the sport into disrepute and to make a future example out of this case.

CahunaKiwi

29th January 2018, 22:01

For those who think the driving behaviour was reasonable, would your answer be the same if:

* It was some less skilled competitor like Bertelli driving instead of Tanak?
* It was some munter driving a Skyline on steelies, cut springs and a fart-can exhaust instead of Tanak?

To Joe Public who don't like cars and hate motorsport they will see it the same way regardless of who is driving.

dimviii

29th January 2018, 22:04

if if if........

Kaps

29th January 2018, 22:07

My God, what the hell is this world coming to!?

He did absolutely nothing!

CahunaKiwi

29th January 2018, 22:11

if if if........

Just trying to determine whether people are taking a position because of who was doing the driving vs what the driver was doing. To a non-motorsport person who saw this it would make no difference and they are the ones who make life hard for event organisers (like myself) who suddenly can't run events because these non-motorsport people complain and stop councils/property owners from giving us roads to use.

CahunaKiwi

29th January 2018, 22:13

And for the record I think it was a nice, controlled piece of driving that was enjoyable to watch. But I can't condone it on a public road.

danon

29th January 2018, 22:19

Where were your "voice of reason" up until now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asQ8xsF3Yzc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT8pg0xEQ4I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADO5n8LqePU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcqmzSGLx-M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAtfq4z3vx0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaswEGOF7ok

CahunaKiwi

29th January 2018, 22:26

Me? I've never been called a "voice of reason" before, usually quite the opposite... Busy working to pay a mortgage, spending time with family and organising motorsport events (and occasionally being allowed out to compete myself) rather than spending time going out of my way on Youtube looking for examples of poor competitor driving to call out. And for the record I'd personally say all of those examples (except perhaps Kubica) are dangerous and shouldn't be condoned as being acceptable on a public road.

cali

29th January 2018, 22:28

Dude says he is passionate about Motorsport and then wants its competitors to be bannedWait for it.... For not speeding :D It's crazy world we are livin' in LMAO

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CahunaKiwi

29th January 2018, 22:31

Wait for it.... For not speeding :D It's crazy world we are livin' in LMAO

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It is. Here in NZ if the Police saw this he would lose his licence on the spot for "sustained loss of traction" under laws introduced to combat boy racers.

SubaruNorway

29th January 2018, 22:37

Wait for it.... For not speeding :D It's crazy world we are livin' in LMAO

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So everything is allowed as long as you don't speed?
Then i suggest you drive to the nearest police station and do some donuts in the street and let us know the outcome ;)

danon

29th January 2018, 22:38

Me?

NO! - It wasn't addressed to you sir.

Indreq

29th January 2018, 22:46

It is. Here in NZ if the Police saw this he would lose his licence on the spot for "sustained loss of traction" under laws introduced to combat boy racers.

This loss of traction law is kinda hard to enforce on ice. Although i am sure that Tänak did it on purpose to ertentain fans, some other less skilled driver could have done it also involuntary - all those boy racers included. So in winter times you just go around and take everybodys licenses away? I know that there is probably some other law that forbids such driving also in Monte, but i am also sure that in winter times police is way more forgiving on this. As i said in previous post - i am in northern Sweden right now and i see some tail-wagging from other drivers several times a day, every day. After all that, i agree that these days everything can be shared in internet in the argument against the rally too and this might also be used for bad PR against rally. But then there are countless other things that can be used - for example damaged trees roadside where somebody drove off, and that cant be just patched. Or photos of damaged gravel roads before they are repaired, or litter left behind by fans etc etc. If someone is looking for ammo to fight against rally, they find it anyway. This incident is by far not juicy enough to warrant much attention, much less such excessive punishments as were called.

smsgrafica

29th January 2018, 22:51

I'm stunned to read so many absurd comments who don't think there was something wrong with what Tänak did in that video. It's a public road and such driving would get everyone of us the licence suspended, without any doubts.

Anyone who thinks it was safe, just because he's a rally driver, doesn't understand anything about the dangers on the streets.

Anyone who thinks being a rally fan means giving a free pass to rally drivers is just crazy.

I'm shocked, not only by Tänak's reckless driving, but also every other driver in the videos posted on page 10.

Should they be suspended for a rally? My answer is YES, but only if the drivers drive against the law a second time.

Let's have more time to get from a Stage to another, but let's be much harsher with the penalties, should the drivers not behave.

smsgrafica

29th January 2018, 22:54

Oh, one more thing: I love rallying, but I want to remind all of you fan boys, that rallying happens on the Stages, not on the public roads...

AL14

29th January 2018, 22:57

Did you really filled 11 pages for this?

Alex009

29th January 2018, 23:04

Ott should be banned for Sweden. It was so stupid and wrong. You can't do that on public road. It's not rally stage, it has nothing to do with rallying. Stupid Ott, very stupid.

PLuto

29th January 2018, 23:13

I think in most of countries he will loose the licence for smaller "issues" than this. What he did in this place is absolutely nonsense, it is making bad promotion for rallysport. I am sure if this should be reported to stewards, he will give him big penalty (time or cash). And I will agree with them.

T16

29th January 2018, 23:30

Did you really filled 11 pages for this?

You do realise your post also adds to these pages?

I think it has created a really interesting and well structured debate.

stefanvv

30th January 2018, 00:21

Did you really filled 11 pages for this?

Not yet, but my post will do.

the sniper

30th January 2018, 01:16

cali

30th January 2018, 05:07

So everything is allowed as long as you don't speed?
Then i suggest you drive to the nearest police station and do some donuts in the street and let us know the outcome ;)Very hard to do some donuts with modern cars. And yes, I haven't heard that somebody has got a ticket for making a donut in a parking lot

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cali

30th January 2018, 05:07

It is. Here in NZ if the Police saw this he would lose his licence on the spot for "sustained loss of traction" under laws introduced to combat boy racers.Not gonna happen in our country

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janvanvurpa

30th January 2018, 07:58

dupanton

30th January 2018, 08:16

Tarmop

30th January 2018, 08:33

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtsMe_X35XI
Let`s go back and take away his titles. Should be sufficient punishment and on the plus side no-one would want to participate anymore...much easier than handing out 19 min punishments for light batteries and bans for some fan-made clips of a situation no-one actually saw close. Motorsport and internal combustion engines pollute the air and disturb the nature. Let`s ban them. Freedom of movement is overrated too, look what can happen and has happened.

denkimi

30th January 2018, 08:39

I personally don't have a problem with this driving. As said here, I've seen worse on road section.
But problem with this is that it just fuels the discussion for anti rally people. There was a TV debate prior to Monte Carlo Rally with a group that is against the Rally. One of their arguments was road safety.
So behavior like this, that is filmed, is just bad for the public opinion. You can't deny that.

So I think some penalty should be applied. Not a ban, but a fine or maybe a time penalty.
Nobody's opinion is going to change by seeing tanak. The fans like it and will remain fans, and the anti people will always be against rally, no matter what.

The only thing we should do is stop giving attention to any kind of anti-person. For every activity a human can do, there is always somenone who doesn't like it, there doesn't even has to be a reason for it. Some people just like to complain and take pleasure in taking others away.

It is everyone's right to complain, but it is also everyone's right not to pay attention to it.

AnttiK7

30th January 2018, 08:45

Must be a slow news week>> Or an awful ot of the men here have become girly-men>
Wot fa fuq is wrong with everybody? Couldn't anybody see? So goddam mild and people are actually "outraged">>

Tell you all what: You should be more outraged at what the incompetent fool that was orange with some dead animal on his head in Washinton DC is doing to the intra-governmental institutions that much of the civilised world has worked hard to build. Or stupid protectionist duties that can develop into trade war..

This is a chuckle.

So just because the world has far more serious issues than Ott Tänak showing off with his Yaris in the French alps, we shouldn't be discussing about it on a forum dedicated to rallying and we should talk about the US politics on here instead? And I'd prefer if everyone left out all the silly sexist comments as well from the discussion.

Special stages are for fast rally driving and also for showboating for the fans, if you want to do that kind of stuff. You can make big slides all you want or make extra big jumps for the fans all you want on the special stages. Remember Panizzi doing a 360 donut in the middle of a stage on his way to winning Rally Catalunya? But liaison sections are for driving according to the road traffic rules. As simple and clear as that. None of that bullshit what Tänak gives us on the video. If the special stages are not enough for him, then it's time for him to hand in his competition license. For the past few years FIA has being campaigning very heavily on road traffic safety and turning a blind eye to this kind of behavior would be hypocritical in my opinion, as well as damaging for the sport in the long run.

If you are a rally fan standing there when Ott does this, it can be fun to watch for a moment until you realise the repercussions it can have for the whole sport. And even if you are a rally fan and you were driving to opposite direction and coming across Tänak like this, you wouldn't be pleased. Driving a liaison section on a narrow road to an opposite direction of a convoy of WRC competitors coming the other way, is not a fun experience, no matter how big of a fan you are or how passionate you are, I can tell you. So if I as a rally fan am worked up about someone doing that, then what is someone who doesn't care about rallying at all going to think about when coming across this type of antics and showmanship on a public road? All sponsored by Toyota and Microsoft. Not exactly the best publicity for the sport, to say the least. And that is the main issue here.

AnttiL

30th January 2018, 08:54

I'd prefer if everyone left out all the silly sexist comments as well from the discussion.
+1

Allez Andruet

30th January 2018, 08:57

Myrvold

30th January 2018, 09:16

On a rally where hundreds of people form a wall of death on the outside of a slippery 6th gear corner, people are morally outraged by Ott relatively slowly passing a couple of fans on the road section with a bit of opposite lock on.

Don't worry, I'm sure he won't have any fun for fans again.

It's kind of funny that of all the shenanigans and highly dubious practices that have occurred on road sections over the years, this non-event is the one that got people outraged!

Not the same though. If John Doe wants to risk his own life by standing in a dangerous position on a stage, then so be it. Survival of the fittest.
If a rally driver speeds, drifts, do whatever on a road section, causing an incident that injures, or even kill someone on their way home from shopping groceries, that's something completely different.

That wouldn't happen here, and have not happened either. However, were do you draw the line on what rules that are ok to break, and what rules you cannot break.

And of course, there will be a difference in what's actually allowed depending on what country you are driving in.

Tarmop

30th January 2018, 09:22

BUT THERE WAS NOBODY AROUND! Apart from those fans in a safe place.

STI69

30th January 2018, 09:28

Agree with you that Ott shouldn't drive on this particular place like he drove but when I looked to this way more dangerous driving on this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtsMe_X35XI , I'm just wondering why this didn't bring up the safety discussion like we are having now. Because he is multiple World Champion or?

TypeR

30th January 2018, 09:30

Nono.. it was a really-really dangerous situation.. I bet that if Latvala finished 2nd and Tanak 3rd, then many FIN fans wouldn't be so b**theart about it..

Tarmop

30th January 2018, 09:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz-qD-hfCOU
Where were you then?

danon

30th January 2018, 09:35

I see neutral steering on a snowy/icy road.
The safest way through.

Obviously Ott Tanak is a threat to some.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/4de65e44baa672cf39a6dfc2eb181ee7/tumblr_ogtcaldPeE1txeruoo1_r3_540.gif

Marcco

30th January 2018, 09:42

You can talk that it’s safe, just for fun, Ott is a pro, car is set up for this… etc etc etc. But you know this is all bullshit! It’s just bad example, any rally driver should not do this. It does no good to our beloved sport.

TypeR

30th January 2018, 09:46

https://youtu.be/PTk1ocYcBUE?t=2m29s
can you see how close he passes the kids?? opening door while driving on narrow streets? and driving in the middle of road so that other cars have to stop?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT8pg0xEQ4I
this shows that most of the drives are maniacs?!! passing while double lines..

oh my..

smsgrafica

30th January 2018, 10:14

From some of the comments I read, it seems it's completely acceptable to kill one guy just because others have killed thousands in the past and got away with it.

Bad doesn't become good only because there's worse in the world, you know?!?!

And this isn't anything against Tanak in particular, it's against breaking the rules on public road. So all of them should be penalized, not only him.

N.O.T

30th January 2018, 10:26

Politically correct crap for people who failed to go through manhood... tough luck kids.

cali

30th January 2018, 10:26

Watson

30th January 2018, 10:44

+1

+ another 1

Epik

30th January 2018, 11:00

No, just a ban from competition for a certain time period and probably also driving license away by simply following the country's road traffic rules where the infringement happened.

Its illegal to use phone or even hands free in france. Should we take away Ogiers and Mikkelsens driving license aswell then ? Or all the WRC drivers who speaked to the team on the road section ??

Rally Power

30th January 2018, 11:06

If you are a rally fan standing there when Ott does this, it can be fun to watch for a moment until you realise the repercussions it can have for the whole sport.

I’m a huge fan of your rally videos, but you're making a storm in a tea cup. For sure there are some reasonable arguments on your claim, but if the purpose was to bring this subject in order to prevent general public recrimination on rallysport, I’m afraid you may end having the opposite result.

Btw, if the debate keeps going, please let’s stop posting others videos. Like sms wrote before, this isn’t about driver A or B (hope so), and the thread is already messy enough.

Rallyper

30th January 2018, 11:17

Rallyper

30th January 2018, 11:17

I’m a huge fan of your rally videos but you're making a storm in a tea cup. For sure there are some reasonable arguments on your claim, but if the purpose was to bring this subject in order to prevent general public recrimination on rallysport I’m afraid you may end having the opposite result.

Btw, if the debate keeps going, please let’s stop posting others videos. Like sms wrote before, this isn’t about driver A or B, and the thread is already messy enough.

Streisandeffect?

Duvel

30th January 2018, 11:20

I agree that rally drivers shouldnt do those things in between stages. If you want to see a rally car at full speed just see it on stages.
Tanak has everything under control, no doubt about that. But he has to behave as a normal road car at that point.
Ogier showing of in Wales is what fans want to see there, was a closed of space, i'm not saying that was a safe situation, but was not public road.
Use of phones during driving also cant be accepted.

Tarmop

30th January 2018, 11:27

Kestask

30th January 2018, 12:14

interesting to see other crews in this place, maybe all cars drifting a little, because you must warm up brakes temperature before the start.

Rally Power

30th January 2018, 12:35

Streisandeffect?

Not quite. I see it more as digging up dirt on rally; hard to get positive results from it.

Rallyper

30th January 2018, 12:51

Not quite. I see it more as digging up dirt on rally; hard to get positive results from it.

That is kind of Streisandeffect. Inverted.

Watson

30th January 2018, 13:35

That`s the case, it wasn`t rally speed, even not maximum allowed roadspeed. Just a normal situation on a slippery curve, especially when you have a 380bhp rallycar with on/off clutch and throttle, in a setup really not suitable for winter (18/65-18 tyres, stiff) plus have to slow down to assess the situation ("great" place to stop a car indeed). And when a 4wd is already going sideways you push the pedal even more to stear it. Simple physics. Latvala himself compared those roadconditions on Saturday, saying that it`s bad even in a roadcar and much worse for them.

Wales was far more worse, because that fence couldn`t hold a falling 100 kg person, let alone a rallycar having fun, faster than in this episode probably.

Oh come on. As if he didn't know at what speed/throttle-position/steering-lock the car would start to go sideways. That's a miserable excuse, he clearly knew what he was doing. If he was going over or under the speedlimit is not relevant, it was dangerous behavour. Besides, every roadlaw in the world says to adjust the speed to the roadcondition and a bunch of paragraphs considering dangerous manouvers.

To put it simple, had he run someone over and killed that person sliding in that corner he would go to prison for negligent homicide.

Tarmop

30th January 2018, 13:39

AnttiK7

30th January 2018, 13:41

Not quite. I see it more as digging up dirt on rally; hard to get positive results from it.

How is it digging dirt up on rally if I point out an issue in a WRC driver code of conduct, which has a possibility to cause serious problems for rallying in the future? I'm just pointing the dirt and suggesting that the dirt is cleaned up now when it's still small and not left alone. I'd much rather FIA took action now against something like this and not against something much more serious and damaging for the sport in the future which could have been prevented earlier. Because this kind of stuff is completely unnecessary for the sport, it has nothing to do with it.

I am as passionate about rallying as the next guy, but I think that passion must be still controlled somehow and not allowed to cloud common sense altogether. And besides showboating in public roads has nothing to do with passion for rallying to me, not even if I am looking at it only with my rally passion glasses firmly on. Maybe it's also a cultural difference in some cases. I know the story of an Italian spectator who was so happy to have their leg broken by Walter Röhrl in San Remo 1984 and admittedly it's a bit different to my concept of passion towards rallying. And I am afraid the more we have this kind of "passion" for rallying, the sooner the sport will die.

sidrun

30th January 2018, 14:22

My friends, you can all put your black dresses on next rally , take your signs #metoo and go and have a meeting in front of Toyota or FIA. Doesn't help much this whining here!

T16

30th January 2018, 14:23

How is it digging dirt up on rally if I point out an issue in a WRC driver code of conduct, which has a possibility to cause serious problems for rallying in the future? I'm just pointing the dirt and suggesting that the dirt is cleaned up now when it's still small and not left alone. I'd much rather FIA took action now against something like this and not against something much more serious and damaging for the sport in the future which could have been prevented earlier. Because this kind of stuff is completely unnecessary for the sport, it has nothing to do with it.

I am as passionate about rallying as the next guy, but I think that passion must be still controlled somehow and not allowed to cloud common sense altogether. And besides showboating in public roads has nothing to do with passion for rallying to me, not even if I am looking at it only with my rally passion glasses firmly on. Maybe it's also a cultural difference in some cases. I know the story of an Italian spectator who was so happy to have their leg broken by Walter Röhrl in San Remo 1984 and admittedly it's a bit different to my concept of passion towards rallying. And I am afraid the more we have this kind of "passion" for rallying, the sooner the sport will die.

Genuine question pal: have you considered contacting Toyota or the FIA to voice your concerns?
If you really are serious about protecting the sport and you feel driving like this will damage it, then surely you had better aim your views at them, rather than this message board.

Watson

30th January 2018, 15:03

Oh well...
For the tenth time, there was nobody to endanger, he slowed down and assessed the situation before. Ofc he could have gone more slowly, he could have even pushed his car. Every car goes a bit sideways from time to time in these kind of conditions. If you haven`t driven in such conditions i can understand you.

Of course the people were in danger. As you like to point out the road was very slippery. I spend enough time of the year in those weather conditions to know how easy it is to trip over and fall on my face. That could have happened to those people standing behind the stranded car. Or Tanak could've lost control. You see how quickly drivers misjudge a corner by all the slipups and spins in the actual rally.

I think some of you guys think they'd be disloyal to the whole sport if you raised your hand and said 'That is no good'. But it isn't. It puts the sport in a bad light if you persist defending this or any other dangerous behaviour on roadstages.

Watson

30th January 2018, 15:08

My friends, you can all put your black dresses on next rally , take your signs #metoo and go and have a meeting in front of Toyota or FIA. Doesn't help much this whining here!

Nothing that is ever said here makes any change. That's not why we're here. We're here to discuss opinions. Some more civilised than others.

AnttiK7

30th January 2018, 15:23

My friends, you can all put your black dresses on next rally , take your signs #metoo and go and have a meeting in front of Toyota or FIA. Doesn't help much this whining here!

I really don't understand the need to bring up completely different and very serious issues to this topic, while making fun of them. We are here to talk about rallying.

Genuine question pal: have you considered contacting Toyota or the FIA to voice your concerns?
If you really are serious about protecting the sport and you feel driving like this will damage it, then surely you had better aim your views at them, rather than this message board.

Toyota no, but FIA yes definitely. I would love to get a proper FIA clarification on this and how it is in line with their road traffic safety campaigns. And as far as I can see the point of the existence of this forum is to share our opinions and raise discussion about various things related to rallying, so I don't see any problem here whatsoever. Even if nothing happens because of these discussions, now more people are aware of the whole issue and the snowball rolls. It was only because the link was posted on another forum that I even found out about this myself. It more seems like the problem is that I have undesirable views on the matter for some people.

janvanvurpa

30th January 2018, 15:24

So just because the world has far more serious issues than Ott Tänak showing off with his Yaris in the French alps, we shouldn't be discussing about it on a forum dedicated to rallying and we should talk about the US politics on here instead? And I'd prefer if everyone left out all the silly sexist comments as well from the discussion.

I didn't say we shouldn't discuss..Don't twist words and pretend I did then pretend outrage.

I suggested that you are over-reacting in overblown outrage..Like what we call "drama-queens".

Special stages are for fast rally driving and also for showboating for the fans, if you want to do that kind of stuff. You can make big slides all you want or make extra big jumps for the fans all you want on the special stages. Remember Panizzi doing a 360 donut in the middle of a stage on his way to winning Rally Catalunya? But liaison sections are for driving according to the road traffic rules. As simple and clear as that.

Thank you for explaining all that..Excellent job of mansplianing.
:rolleyes:

None of that bullshit what Tänak gives us on the video. If the special stages are not enough for him, then it's time for him to hand in his competition license.

Simple as that... black or white..One thing or the other...just like your exaggeration above

For the past few years FIA has being campaigning very heavily on road traffic safety and turning a blind eye to this kind of behavior would be hypocritical in my opinion, as well as damaging for the sport in the long run.

So if I as a rally fan am worked up about someone doing that, then what is someone who doesn't care about rallying at all going to think about when coming across this type of antics and showmanship on a public road?

I cannot say what a non-rally fan is going think...that is an absurd question. I can say that my experience with non-fans is this : it doesn't matter ANYTHING anybody does...simple logic. They are already anti-rally, and as we see in "real life" almost nothing changes people's minds...The mere presence of a car with a lot of stickers and crackly exhaust probably already "triggers" outrage in them...regardless of what the car does...or doesn't do...people are not particularly rational.

All sponsored by Toyota and Microsoft. Not exactly the best publicity for the sport, to say the least. And that is the main issue here.

Agreed..Not the best publicity..
But hardly anything to get at all excited about....a little squiggle on a hugely wide smooth road..people not even laughing just a little snicker from what we can hear..those present didn't seem upset at all..
Maybe take that as a hint of much you should be reacting...

Rather than jumping up and down writing pages and pages of angry indignation.
Learn from the French. giggle, shrug and get on with life..
(I say this not as a spectator or a fan but as a competitor who spent 2 seasons racing in France. After 7-8 years in a country equally Lutheran to where you live. Things are different in different countries, not better or worse, just different. Learn to roll the eyes back, smile and shrug)0

L555MAT

30th January 2018, 15:45

The WRC needs to do anything it can to attain and keep a positive image. This doesn't help at all.

Franky

30th January 2018, 15:54

Anyone want a drink?

TypeR

30th January 2018, 15:58

Anyone want a drink?

no, it is dangerous and leaves bad image to rally forum

Franky

30th January 2018, 16:02

no, it is dangerous and leaves bad image to rally forum

Okay, no tea for you today.

Jakem

30th January 2018, 16:04

I really don't understand the need to bring up completely different and very serious issues to this topic, while making fun of them. We are here to talk about rallying.

Toyota no, but FIA yes definitely. I would love to get a proper FIA clarification on this and how it is in line with their road traffic safety campaigns. And as far as I can see the point of the existence of this forum is to share our opinions and raise discussion about various things related to rallying, so I don't see any problem here whatsoever. Even if nothing happens because of these discussions, now more people are aware of the whole issue and the snowball rolls. It was only because the link was posted on another forum that I even found out about this myself. It more seems like the problem is that I have undesirable views on the matter for some people.

You talk about road safety campaigns, but why dont you want to put also Ogier as example for others that its not good for sport. Ogier was using his phone while driving and we all saw it in live. This kind of behavour is straitly regulated by law in France and you must give away your driving-license. In Tanaks case we even dont now what law will say about little slide in slippy contitions...
5 time world champion will be much more useful example for others.
Its funny that most of you, who want that only Tanak must be punished are finns(Jari-Matti fans)....smile and life will be much more nicer 😉

AnttiK7

30th January 2018, 16:07

Maybe take that as a hint of much you should be reacting...

Rather than jumping up and down writing pages and pages of angry indignation.
Learn from the French. giggle, shrug and get on with life..
(I say this not as a spectator or a fan but as a competitor who spent 2 seasons racing in France. After 7-8 years in a country equally Lutheran to where you live. Things are different in different countries, not better or worse, just different. Learn to roll the eyes back, smile and shrug)0

I don't use the reactions of other people, rally fans or not, as a guideline on how I should react to things. Also I don't believe in rolling my eyes back, smiling and shrugging at everything in life. If there's something I care about and what means something to me and I disagree with something then no, that's not the way to go nor is it something I would suggest for anyone. And I am yet to jump up and down in anger about this and it's nothing to get a heart attack over, but in the context of WRC it is very much an issue.

spiderem

30th January 2018, 16:08

Tarmop

30th January 2018, 16:14

Only when it`s not their favorite.

PLuto

30th January 2018, 16:15

i would ask people who think it was dangerous and Ott should be banned, do you think the same when you watch the Tour de France and see the team cars passing by spectators very close at speeds over 50kph sometime?

I am not fan of Tour de France, they can do what they want there. But I am fan of rallysport. And I am also part of organisation. I know how people are starting to be against rally everywhere. And behaviour during recce and on liaisons is one of their biggest arguments. Year by year there are problems with approving the stages. We must make picture of rallysport to be more friendly to normal people, who dont like the sport. Dont give them so stupid arguments to be against rallysport.

Rallyper

30th January 2018, 16:18

I am not fan of Tour de France, they can do what they want there. But I am fan of rallysport. And I am also part of organisation. I know how people are starting to be against rally everywhere. And behaviour during recce and on liaisons is one of their biggest arguments. Year by year there are problems with approving the stages. We must make picture of rallysport to be more friendly to normal people, who dont like the sport. Dont give them so stupid arguments to be against rallysport.

However Otts driving is not the example that will get the antirally people yelling hurray. Need to be something else.

Simmi

30th January 2018, 16:30

I wonder what the person who uploaded the video thinks? If it had been me I'd never have uploaded it.

janvanvurpa

30th January 2018, 16:31

Anyone want a drink?

Having a strong cup of great Turkish tea right now. Thanks!

Watson

30th January 2018, 16:32

I am not fan of Tour de France, they can do what they want there. But I am fan of rallysport. And I am also part of organisation. I know how people are starting to be against rally everywhere. And behaviour during recce and on liaisons is one of their biggest arguments. Year by year there are problems with approving the stages. We must make picture of rallysport to be more friendly to normal people, who dont like the sport. Dont give them so stupid arguments to be against rallysport.

Exactly. Don't give the people who are against it valid arguments to make arguments for it stick.

I'm a big fan of Ogier and I have sympathies for Tanak as well. They should both be penalised for breaking traffic rules. I'll leave it up to the local police and government as well as the FIA respectively what that would be in any given case.

cali

30th January 2018, 16:55

Exactly. Don't give the people who are against it valid arguments to make arguments for it stick.

I'm a big fan of Ogier and I have sympathies for Tanak as well. They should both be penalised for breaking traffic rules. I'll leave it up to the local police and government as well as the FIA respectively what that would be in any given case.I haven't still got an answer on what rules Tänak did break? In Ogier case it's clear. Still no answer about a small drift... Can our french friends help?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

T16

30th January 2018, 17:20

Toyota no, but FIA yes definitely. I would love to get a proper FIA clarification on this and how it is in line with their road traffic safety campaigns. And as far as I can see the point of the existence of this forum is to share our opinions and raise discussion about various things related to rallying, so I don't see any problem here whatsoever. Even if nothing happens because of these discussions, now more people are aware of the whole issue and the snowball rolls. It was only because the link was posted on another forum that I even found out about this myself. It more seems like the problem is that I have undesirable views on the matter for some people.[/QUOTE]

Few things:

If you want clarification, you need to ask the FIA then.

I think it has created a great debate and to be honest, I’m now torn 50/50 whether it was acceptable or not.

Don’t worry that there has been opposing reactions... take the sensible ones into account and discount the silly responses.... bit like life itself.

I do think you have created a little bit of a beast and you’ve probably put yourself in pole position to ask the question to the FIA. In my eyes, you need to follow this through properly.

Although his driving may seem irresponsible, I still think a massive fact in this is the surface he was on... kind of bambi on ice as opposed to ‘drifting on tarmac’...

SubaruNorway

30th January 2018, 18:06

I haven't still got an answer on what rules Tänak did break? In Ogier case it's clear. Still no answer about a small drift... Can our french friends help?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

I'm no police officer but i would assume most of these?

*Basic rules for traffic.
Everyone should be careful and be alert and careful so that there is no danger or injury and that other traffic is not unnecessarily obstructed or disturbed.
Driver should also pay attention to those living near or staying on the road."

*Dangerous overtaking: Fine €135 Licence suspension 3 years. (Up to 3 years?)
*Reckless or careless driving. (Which is a pretty international law if I'm not wrong)
*Perturbing or obstructing traffic: Prison 2 years Fine €4,500 License suspension 3 years

Ogier: Using a mobile phone while driving a motor vehicle €135

https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/driving-in-france/driving-offences/

Jakem

30th January 2018, 18:20

I'm no police officer but i would assume most of these?

*Basic rules for traffic.
Everyone should be careful and be alert and careful so that there is no danger or injury and that other traffic is not unnecessarily obstructed or disturbed.
Driver should also pay attention to those living near or staying on the road."

*Dangerous overtaking: Fine €135 Licence suspension 3 years. (Up to 3 years?)
*Reckless or careless driving. (Which is a pretty international law if I'm not wrong)
*Perturbing or obstructing traffic: Prison 2 years Fine €4,500 License suspension 3 years

Ogier: Using a mobile phone while driving a motor vehicle €135

https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/driving-in-france/driving-offences/

In Ogier case you have old law
PHONING AT THE WHEEL BEWARE.... HANDS FREE mobile-phone use is banned in France. The new rule applies to all hands-free phones using a headset, bluetooth or wired. Drivers caught using a mobile phone while on the road in France are liable to an on-the-spot fine of 135 Euros – and 3 penalty points if they have a French driving licence. And from 2018 on immediate suspension of their licence (regardless of nationality). Statistics show that phoning at the wheel increases the risk of accident by a factor of three. The only type of mobile phone now legal to use in France while driving is one that is entirely hands-free and headphone free.

SubaruNorway

30th January 2018, 18:26

So a voice controlled system is the only thing allowed if i understand it right?

Jakem

30th January 2018, 18:29

Yes only voice controlled in car built system.

Tarmop

30th January 2018, 18:38

I'm no police officer but i would assume most of these?

*Basic rules for traffic.
Everyone should be careful and be alert and careful so that there is no danger or injury and that other traffic is not unnecessarily obstructed or disturbed.
Driver should also pay attention to those living near or staying on the road."

*Dangerous overtaking: Fine €135 Licence suspension 3 years. (Up to 3 years?)
*Reckless or careless driving. (Which is a pretty international law if I'm not wrong)
*Perturbing or obstructing traffic: Prison 2 years Fine €4,500 License suspension 3 years

Ogier: Using a mobile phone while driving a motor vehicle €135

https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/driving-in-france/driving-offences/

Overtaking? He was passing a car parked/stopped in a place where it is also forbidden internationally. He slowed down, assessed the situation.
Well, drift on ice can happen to everybody. Just slippier than expected.
What traffic was he obstructing? There was a stopped car obstructing traffic in a forbidden zone (maybe tech. issues or something, not blaming).

Integrale

30th January 2018, 19:45

I find this thread very amusing because it's full of logical errors. Half of it is attacking the person instead of the subject. The other half is trying to prove it's no big deal because there have happened worse things in rallysport.

Indreq

30th January 2018, 19:54

I gave up for some time ago. Clearly there are many fans who dont think any excessive punishment is necessary, and then couple of trolls and simpletons who refuse to understand that world is not black and white after their whims. Some claim that what Ott did was dangerous driving. In some posts there is option that perhaps what he did wasnt dangerous due to his skills and his car, but he is giving bad example. So what is it - dangerous or not? Giving bad example is probably FIA issue (unsportsmanlike conduct etc). But nobody seems to come even to common position what is it exactly that he did. Neglegting Ogiers violation is glaringly obvious by some. Also nationality card is played... What bothers me most that critics here seem to have all of the sudden discovered that this kind of conduct should be condemned and are demanding some public execution. Why couldnt 1st case be warning and fine and if message doesnt get to drivers, then increase punishments? I have had similar dicussions with hard-core vegans about human-animal relations, there is simply no compromise or reasoning possible, no dialogue, just repeating same overblown arguments like broken gramophone.

Watson

30th January 2018, 20:03

I haven't still got an answer on what rules Tänak did break? In Ogier case it's clear. Still no answer about a small drift... Can our french friends help?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

Drifting, powersliding and all sorts of manouvers like that on public roads fall under the broad category of 'dangerous driving' or whatever it may be called in any given country. If you do a drift in front of a cop, he'll pull you over and you'll go to court. Even if there is no other human soul within a square mile you'll get trouble because the judge will argue that you can't predict whether someone will come out of nowhere. While drifting, you have less control over your car and you'll have more difficulty avoiding somebody than if you drive normally, whether you break the speed limit or not; by drifting you show no responsibility for other people on the road - and that's what you will get punished for.

That is the law, you can agree whether that law is just or not, the fact is that it makes rallying look bad in the public eye because laws are being broken.

TypeR

30th January 2018, 21:03

Drifting, powersliding and all sorts of manouvers like that on public roads fall under the broad category of 'dangerous driving' or whatever it may be called in any given country. If you do a drift in front of a cop, he'll pull you over and you'll go to court. Even if there is no other human soul within a square mile you'll get trouble because the judge will argue that you can't predict whether someone will come out of nowhere. While drifting, you have less control over your car and you'll have more difficulty avoiding somebody than if you drive normally, whether you break the speed limit or not; by drifting you show no responsibility for other people on the road - and that's what you will get punished for.

That is the law, you can agree whether that law is just or not, the fact is that it makes rallying look bad in the public eye because laws are being broken.

Go fish... yeah sure, if you slide in snow, you'll go to court :talk: there is no law anywhere that explains drifting or what so ever.. from what angle and speed somebody could say you are drifting or sliding.. Anttti' and other.. b*tthurts, I doubt that you haven't ever gone over speed limits or yellow light or etc... you are also a bad example for everybody else..

Jakem

30th January 2018, 22:06

[url]https://twitter.com/peachaparacing/status/957725243279323137[/url I would make a serious example case out of Mr. Tänak and hand out a heavy penalty, disqualify him from Monte Carlo results and ban him for a couple of events. No fines or warnings or nonsense like that, just give him a good hard penalty. That will teach him and set an example and warning for everyone else.

What are we talking about, this is the reason me and many others want to explain something. You want to make someone example to ohters and punish him like crazy. And ruin his whole season, because of small sideways driving on snowy road. Be real!!! We dont live in year 1900 or as someone allready said in North-Korea, to make examples that other will afraid. I am not against to give Tanak warning and maybe fine and then this happens more maybe time penalty. And I am sure this is not happening any more.
but you can make the claim to FIA and see what they will answer, you have these rights.

smsgrafica

30th January 2018, 23:05

Go fish... yeah sure, if you slide in snow, you'll go to court :talk: there is no law anywhere that explains drifting or what so ever.. from what angle and speed somebody could say you are drifting or sliding.. Anttti' and other.. b*tthurts, I doubt that you haven't ever gone over speed limits or yellow light or etc... you are also a bad example for everybody else..

You are so childish, one has to think you cannot possibly be over 14 years old... and even if you were as young, your comments would still be a shame.

BigWorm

30th January 2018, 23:10

Some quite terrifying reactions on here. Ott is not driving correctly here and he shouldn't be doing it, but this shouldn't just be aimed at Ott but all drivers. Just because they're rally drivers doesn't earn them special privileges on road sections, it's not OK and shouldn't be encouraged. Either make time controls less stressful for drivers or penalize them when driving illegally, but this has been adressed in here by now.

If you are a woman fair enough, if you are a man think a little... life is not all about safety and political correction. If all fathers act like this, in 20 years there will be no rally drivers.

No, life isn't about being politically correct all the time and I agree with you on that. But one can still act responsible and realize what might not be clever to do.

And the generalization in post makes my head ache a bit...

smsgrafica

30th January 2018, 23:12

I haven't still got an answer on what rules Tänak did break? In Ogier case it's clear. Still no answer about a small drift... Can our french friends help?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-legal-to-drift-around-a-corner-if-you-are-in-complete-control-of-your-vehicle-whilst-staying-between-lines-and-below-speed-limits

https://www.google.it/search?q=drifting+against+the+law&oq=drifting+against+the+law&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.5007j1j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

the sniper

31st January 2018, 01:49

Some quite terrifying reactions on here.

About as terrifying as someone applying a small degree of opposite lock while going relatively slowly up an icy road.

Watson

31st January 2018, 02:49

Go fish... yeah sure, if you slide in snow, you'll go to court :talk: there is no law anywhere that explains drifting or what so ever.. from what angle and speed somebody could say you are drifting or sliding.. Anttti' and other.. b*tthurts, I doubt that you haven't ever gone over speed limits or yellow light or etc... you are also a bad example for everybody else..

I happen to know a guy it happened and how the whole thing went down. Hell, even if you do a burnout you can get trouble. But don't take it from me. Next time you see a copcar, pull a slide - under the speedlimit of course - and see what happens for yourself.

salamaja

31st January 2018, 03:45

Wow 18 pages of nonsense. Keep it up :)

GravelBen

31st January 2018, 06:55

I happen to know a guy it happened and how the whole thing went down. Hell, even if you do a burnout you can get trouble. But don't take it from me. Next time you see a copcar, pull a slide - under the speedlimit of course - and see what happens for yourself.

I don't think I've ever seen an NZ cop out in the snow! Even if they were, if you said it was an accidental slide due to the snow they'd have a tough time proving in court that you did it deliberately. ;) ... "I'm sorry your honour, it was slipperier than I realised. After the car slid a little bit I went home even more slowly and carefully than I already was"

I got pulled over for a chat after a cheeky slide around a wet roundabout one night a few years ago... after a (clean) breath test they told me that right in front of the police station wasn't a very clever place to do that, and I should find somewhere more suitable next time. Small town cops are generally more practical and less bureacratic about things.

Watson

31st January 2018, 08:15

I don't think I've ever seen an NZ cop out in the snow! Even if they were, if you said it was an accidental slide due to the snow they'd have a tough time proving in court that you did it deliberately. ;) ... "I'm sorry your honour, it was slipperier than I realised. After the car slid a little bit I went home even more slowly and carefully than I already was"

I got pulled over for a chat after a cheeky slide around a wet roundabout one night a few years ago... after a (clean) breath test they told me that right in front of the police station wasn't a very clever place to do that, and I should find somewhere more suitable next time. Small town cops are generally more practical and less bureacratic about things.

Well fair enough if the cop sees that you were not doing it in a dangerous spot and lets you... ahem, slide. That is just good will on the cops behalf and you can't rely on it.

Still you can't get mad if they don't. As with the cheeky 'it was slippier than I expected' excuse... well yes that will probably bail you out. However, if they have you on camera and there is rear wheel blocking due to handbreak use or heavy acceleration into a corner involved they pretty much have you by the balls.

GravelBen

31st January 2018, 10:17

However, if they have you on camera and there is rear wheel blocking due to handbreak use or heavy acceleration into a corner involved they pretty much have you by the balls.

Yeah I agree with you in that regard, I think there is a big difference (both in appearance and in safety) between a small controlled slide exiting a slow corner and a big dramatic drift with a committed entry/handbrake etc.

In my younger days I was a bit looser but my approach to sideways fun on publics roads now is that there is a time and a place... if there are people around (cops or public) then its probably not a suitable time and place.

To get it back on the original topic - personally I didn't see too much issue with Tanak's little slide on the snow at low speed, though he did look pretty close to the other car at the end. I understand the point about make the sport look irresponsible in the public eye but the people there were clearly encouraging him, not disconnected members of the general public. In that sense its not really any different to other examples given like winners donuts in a carpark with marshalls standing nearby... though I don't know if they're allowed to do that anymore either?

Other cases where drivers are genuinely dangerous in trying to make up time on road sections etc... I definitely agree with the sentiment that appropriate punishments should be given for that.

Mr C1412

31st January 2018, 10:36

[QUOTE=BigWorm;1170626]Some quite terrifying reactions on here. Ott is not driving correctly here and he shouldn't be doing it.

Terrifying...lol. You F1 ladyboys really need to wind your necks in and man the f*ck up, or stick to the roundy roundy stuff.

Mr C1412

31st January 2018, 10:41

If the Gendarmerie saw Ott doing that they would have applauded, given him a police escort and asked for his autograph.

AnttiK7

31st January 2018, 10:44

I do think you have created a little bit of a beast and you’ve probably put yourself in pole position to ask the question to the FIA. In my eyes, you need to follow this through properly.

I have today brought this case to various offices in FIA and offices which are affiliated with FIA, both sporting as well as mobility divisions concerned with road traffic safety. Whether they want to set an example or not is a different case, but the ball is firmly rolling at least, like it should be. My bottom line still remains, I am a great fan of rallying and I don't want to see drivers disrespecting the sport.

Mr C1412

31st January 2018, 10:46

Christ

Mr C1412

31st January 2018, 10:48

And lol at the chumps confusing health and safety with polical correctness. Something like my granny would have done ffs!

Rallyper

31st January 2018, 11:08

I have today brought this case to various offices in FIA and offices which are affiliated with FIA, both sporting as well as mobility divisions concerned with road traffic safety. Whether they want to set an example or not is a different case, but the ball is firmly rolling at least, like it should be. My bottom line still remains, I am a great fan of rallying and I don't want to see drivers disrespecting the sport.

I´m sorry for you. Not even a real fan are you.

rallye-vid

31st January 2018, 11:19

Must be some sad Jari Matti fanboy.

I'm sorry for you dude, Ott is just faster.

swanny

31st January 2018, 11:20

I saw a number of Rally drivers making er.. pit stops before a stage. I chose not to take pictures.

Sometimes things are better left unseen :eek:.

tpt010

31st January 2018, 11:27

Jakem

31st January 2018, 11:29

Must be some sad Jari Matti fanboy.

I'm sorry for you dude, Ott is just faster.

+1

danon

31st January 2018, 11:29

... the ball is firmly rolling...

http://i0.wp.com/www.towleroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/6a00d8341c730253ef01b7c77502e3970b1.gif?resize=195 %2C195

AnttiK7

31st January 2018, 11:36

I´m sorry for you. Not even a real fan are you.

I don't care what other fans think of my views. There are so many rally fans in the world whose concepts of rally fandom I don't agree with and that's fine. Last weekend I spent hours enjoying the spectacle through All Live and I was left with a deep sensation of an era of great new opportunities opening for WRC. Then on Monday I saw the video we are talking about here and now more than perhaps ever before WRC needs to rid itself of extra silly "attractions" like this. I am very well aware of the history of road driving behaviour in WRC and I know this cannot continue. And that is the reason why I have taken further action on it and brought it to the FIA. I care about the sport far more than what some rally fan might or might not think of me. And I suggest that as a healthy attitude for everyone here.

And like I have stated before, this is nothing to do with nationality, person in question, speed on the stages or anything else. If Latvala, Lappi, Ogier or whoever else took the same bit of road the same way, my views and actions would not change. Tänak was the fastest Toyota driver fair and square on the stages but we are not talking about that here at all are we? This is about the sport of rallying and how it is represented. I place the sport above any competitors in it.

cali

31st January 2018, 11:38

I don't care what other fans think of my views. There are so many rally fans in the world whose concepts of rally fandom I don't agree with and that's fine. Last weekend I spent hours enjoying the spectacle through All Live and I was left with a deep sensation of an era of great new opportunities opening for WRC. Then on Monday I saw the video we are talking about here and now more than perhaps ever before WRC needs to rid itself of extra silly "attractions" like this. I am very well aware of the history of road driving behaviour in WRC and I know this cannot continue. And that is the reason why I have taken further action on it and brought it to the FIA. I care about the sport far more than what some rally fan might or might not think of me. And I suggest that as a healthy attitude for everyone here.

And like I have stated before, this is nothing to do with nationality, person in question, speed on the stages or anything else. If Latvala, Lappi, Ogier or whoever else took the same bit of road the same way, my views and actions would not change. Tänak was the fastest Toyota driver fair and square on the stages but we are not talking about that here at all are we? This is about the sport of rallying and how it is represented. I place the sport above any competitors in it.Did you report about Ogier as well?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

AnttiK7

31st January 2018, 11:51

Did you report about Ogier as well?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

No, if you are talking about Monte Carlo then I don't approve of using mobile phones while driving, but I consider a rally driver showing off for the fans on public roads far more damaging for WRC's image. Just look at this forum and see how many people approve of it probably largely because they are fans of Ott Tänak. A professional rally driver has a following and they have publicity and with that also comes responsibility not to disrespect their sport in public.

Colin McRae was my childhood hero and if I as a kid saw him do this kind of stuff during a rally on public roads (which let's be fair is highly likely he did at times), I would have been like "f...yeah that's cool". And I really don't want WRC drivers giving this kind of impressions to their fans today. Let alone the image it gives about rallying to the general public.

cali

31st January 2018, 11:59

No, if you are talking about Monte Carlo then I don't approve of using mobile phones while driving, but I consider a rally driver showing off for the fans on public roads far more damaging for WRC's image. Just look at this forum and see how many people approve of it probably largely because they are fans of Ott Tänak. A professional rally driver has a following and they have publicity and with that also comes responsibility not to disrespect their sport in public.

Colin McRae was my childhood hero and if I as a kid saw him do this kind of stuff during a rally on public roads (which let's be fair is highly likely he did at times), I would have been like "f...yeah that's cool". And I really don't want WRC drivers giving this kind of impressions to their fans today. Let alone the image it gives about rallying to the general public.So you turned a blind eye for the infringement which is very clearly forbidden in France but selected to report another which is debatable. I call it selective whatever your reasons are. I'm not a fanboy although yes I'm crossing my fingers to Tänak and have few other favourites in the WRC. I would react the same if this was happened to Neuville (my villain in WRC). It's just dishonest from your side now :)

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

TypeR

31st January 2018, 11:59

And like I have stated before, this is nothing to do with nationality, person in question, speed on the stages or anything else. If Latvala, Lappi, Ogier or whoever else took the same bit of road the same way, my views and actions would not change.

No, if you are talking about Monte Carlo then I don't approve of using mobile phones while driving, but I consider a rally driver showing off for the fans on public roads far more damaging for WRC's image.

I doubt that it's nothing to do with nationality.. Anyway, how is using mobile ,,safer'' than a little slide and not worth snitching (if using mobile takes your eyes off the road for some time), while sliding on basically empty road with two hands on wheel is?

tpt010

31st January 2018, 12:15

Colin McRae was my childhood hero and if I as a kid saw him do this kind of stuff during a rally on public roads (which let's be fair is highly likely he did at times), I would have been like "f...yeah that's cool". And I really don't want WRC drivers giving this kind of impressions to their fans today. Let alone the image it gives about rallying to the general public.

So you don't want kids to think "f... yeah, that's cool" about the rally anymore? You don't want them to get enthusiastic? Actually I will now show this video to my sons (8 and 11 years old) with whom I was spectating Monte for three days and tell them not to try this on open road after they get driving licenses. At least not with my car and not until they are professional rally drivers. I am sure their enthusiasm about rally won't decrease.

AnttiK7

31st January 2018, 12:25

So you don't want kids to think "f... yeah, that's cool" about the rally anymore? You don't want them to get enthusiastic?

Yes I want kids to be enthusiastic, but about actual rallying on the stages. Not about their heroes showing off on public roads.

maailmameister

31st January 2018, 12:30

I do not usually type anything here, just follow this forum everyday. But this topic has already crossed all boundaries. Send complaints to FIA for such a thing? Why do you have to do such things? It's just sick.

Simmi

31st January 2018, 12:55

Quite an interesting social experiment this thread. The amount of people who have come out of the woodwork to create accounts and comment is pretty staggering. One of the things I dislike most about society these days is the professionally outraged. What's also interesting is how opinion seemingly only falls in the extremes on either side. Or maybe it's just those people who shout the loudest.

onemanband

31st January 2018, 13:13

I know I am a bit late to the party.

Was what Ott did in that clip dangerous? NO.
Could it appear dangerous to the general public? Yes.
Was it a good thing to do? No.
What will happen now? Because of how the incident has been blown up by some countries media (i'm looking at you, Finland), the person responsible for the FIA Road Safety program will show the clip to all the drivers and say: "don't do that anymore, ok". There will NEVER be any reprimand or penalty for it, because Toyota would protest heavily. Maximum thing sending letters to FIA and maybe the organizers could achieve is Ott publishing a formal apology in the WRC.com website (altough that would need hundreds of letters like Antti's).

AnttiL

31st January 2018, 13:15

Because of how the incident has been blown up by some countries media (i'm looking at you, Finland)
I tried to search for news stories about this in Finnish media but couldn't find anything

onemanband

31st January 2018, 13:25

I tried to search for news stories about this in Finnish media but couldn't find anything

I must apologize. I remember first reading about this in a Finnish news story (not being Finnish myself). As I can't find the link myself then let's say I remembered wrong.
Altough this does not mean I think the incident hasn't been blown up by the rally discussion boards (I just assumed the story began from Finnish media)

AnttiL

31st January 2018, 13:26

I must apologize. I remember first reading about this in a Finnish news story (not being Finnish myself). As I can't find the link myself then let's say I remembered wrong.
Altough this does not mean I think the incident hasn't been blown up by the rally discussion boards (I just assumed the story began from Finnish media)

I think EstWRC said Estonian media picked it up, but not before being posted here. Also, I have the impression Tänak is right now more of a celebrity in Estonia than Latvala is in Finland.

onemanband

31st January 2018, 13:28

I think EstWRC said Estonian media picked it up, but not before being posted here. Also, I have the impression Tänak is right now more of a celebrity in Estonia than Latvala is in Finland.

Possibly. Doesn't really matter. Replace the word Finland with the word Estonia in my original post then if you like.

Mr C1412

31st January 2018, 14:01

This forum had turned to ratsh*t with the F1 ladyboys trying to take over.
Reporting top drivers to the FIA for sliding at snales pace...WTF is wrong with you?!

Rallying is not for you mate. Time to cross over to the F1 forum and read all about the generic robots and that imbecile world champion of their’s and why thinks he’s mad because he braided his hair, and stayed up past midnight once and had 2 beers!

Mr C1412

31st January 2018, 14:05

And Jackie Stewart would tell you to man the f*ck up ad rallying is a big boys game!

AL14

31st January 2018, 14:37

This thread has become a David Lynch movie.

Mintexmemory

31st January 2018, 14:46

Possibly. Doesn't really matter. Replace the word Finland with the word Estonia in my original post then if you like.
Either way you can play name 5 famous (insert Finn or Estonian) that aren’t motor sport professionals.😉

bluuford

31st January 2018, 14:53

Holy crap, I just looked the video and the biggest threat to drivers and human life is user AnttiK7 who is spending FIA officials time that can be otherwise used to improve road safety, spectator safety, and competitors safety. Please, get a life. Or do you want to take repsonibility of next unfortunate event to yourself.. you can always think that this might have been avoided if the officald would have had more time to tackle with real problems, not with your letter.

Please, consider this before senidng something to somewhere, always.

If you really want to see really scary situation, then for me it was the start of SS9 when Breen was going to start control, quite fast, very narrowly parked cars. When I drive like this, I am always afraid of someone opening the door and jumping out from the car without looking.

Anyway, case closed for me do not touch s..t, it tends to stink afterwards ;)

SubaruNorway

31st January 2018, 16:05

Same thing with someone jumping out of the car could have happened there, if it wasn't for that i wouldn't be that bothered about it.
Kids for instance are more unpredictable than sheep...

sonnybobiche

31st January 2018, 16:07

Indreq

31st January 2018, 16:08

About legality of sliding car on ice - if you read letter of law, then i am sure that in most countries deliberately driving in a way which leads to loss of traction, is illegal. Now how this law is enforced is all different matter. If car slides a little on ice, then i am sure that in most cases cops look the other way. There is concept - are people for law or law for people? That mean that obeying law blindly is dumb. Dumb laws should be abolished and even smart laws should be enforced smartly. You dont have to punish someone with maximum severity. Actually, quite often officials look deliberately the other way - untile someone like AnttiK starts yelling - then they have no choice but to act somehow. For example, hereduring winter times there are many unofficial ice-tracks where anyone can go and practice their skills or just have fun. Technically they are illegal, but police almost never does anything to punish anyone for driving there. But everybody (including police) knows about them, even newspaper sometimes write about them - but everybody silently accepts them, because there is nothing to win if police suddenly closes them down. But there is much to lose - people have no safe place to practice driving in slippery conditions and youngsters have nowhere (relatively) safe where to vent their adrenaline. Actually, to get drivers license here, as part of the training one has to also practice driving on slippery surface, but these officila training areas are very small and you cant practice there on practical speeds. So practicing on lake or sea is actually better, enables to do it at speeds closer to real life. But of course, if more holier-than-pope and easily offended people come here, then this will change. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBuN0LBeZ18

About this news article in Estonian newspaper - i looked it up, it was titled about as "Did Ott play on fans nerves?". First and most popular comment to this article suggested that reporter should get a life and not write such rubbish. This comment has got 448 upvotes and 8 downvotes. So i guess there is 8 people in Estonia thinking same way as AnttiK.

onemanband

31st January 2018, 16:08

Same thing with someone jumping out of the car could have happened there, if it wasn't for that i wouldn't be that bothered about it.
Kids for instance are more unpredictable than sheep...

Yes, but going sideways don't make kids jump out unpredictably. It would have been 100% if he had gone through there at the same speed without the slide. And if he had done that we would not have been talking about it.

AnttiK7

31st January 2018, 16:22

The thing I find most interesting is that this is actually a fight within all of motorsports. It's a deep philosophical divide between people who fundamentally agree with the AnttiK7s of the world and those who side with the Mr C1412s. Either you actually believe that safety is the number 1 priority and all sporting considerations are slaves to safety, or you believe that motorsport is inherently dangerous and that putting safety ahead of the spectacle is misguided and destructive to the sport.

You can't say "The most important thing is safety" and support Tanak's unnecessary showboating. I know which one I would go with.

I definitely agree about the philosophical divide, but I don't agree that what I have been writing about here falls under that. Anyway we are talking about a WRC driver driving on a public road under road traffic rules. The other people on the road are not taking part in the rally or necessarily even know what rallying is. And 99 times out of 100 you are gonna be danger more to other people than to yourself when you drive a WRC car in road traffic, simply because you are relatively speaking sitting in a tank compared to the safety of a normal road car. And my foremost concern with this case is public image anyway rather than safety, but for some reason that gets twisted here a lot to something else, that is not my opinion anymore.

danon

31st January 2018, 16:34

marx

31st January 2018, 17:02

I definitely agree about the philosophical divide, but I don't agree that what I have been writing about here falls under that. Anyway we are talking about a WRC driver driving on a public road under road traffic rules. The other people on the road are not taking part in the rally or necessarily even know what rallying is. And 99 times out of 100 you are gonna be danger more to other people than to yourself when you drive a WRC car in road traffic, simply because you are relatively speaking sitting in a tank compared to the safety of a normal road car. And my foremost concern with this case is public image anyway rather than safety, but for some reason that gets twisted here a lot to something else, that is not my opinion anymore.

My concern is that you just look into one "case". For example, Ogier did use the phone while driving, which is prohibited by laws, yet you still talk only and only about Tanak and setting an example about this little slide. You just look like you really don't care about others and talking about "danger" and "safety". There are tons of examples on youtube where most of the drivers do more dangerous manoeuvres than Tanak did right there.

In my opinion, you are not a real rally fan and just complaining about a pointless thing, yes he did slide there, I bet he was not the only one. The only dangerous thing in this corner was the parked car. Nothing more and please now, live with it.

AnttiK7

31st January 2018, 18:13

Holy crap, I just looked the video and the biggest threat to drivers and human life is user AnttiK7 who is spending FIA officials time that can be otherwise used to improve road safety, spectator safety, and competitors safety. Please, get a life. Or do you want to take repsonibility of next unfortunate event to yourself.. you can always think that this might have been avoided if the officald would have had more time to tackle with real problems, not with your letter.

Please, consider this before senidng something to somewhere, always.

As far as I understand you are working for Toyota's rally team so I'm not expecting a different reaction from you. But what I do expect are civilised messages and I would appreciate it if you would leave out any personal attacks. You don't know me at all and that type of postings on a public space I consider completely uncalled for. I am not attacking anyone personally on this thread, not even Mr. Tänak, something which I have already made clear a few times here. If you are happy to represent yourself working for Toyota here on this forum, then that type of postings are far worse publicity for them than the case we are talking about here.

dimviii

31st January 2018, 18:19

As far as I understand you are working for Toyota's rally team so I'm not expecting a different reaction from you.

same opinion with bluuford, have plenty of members here,without working for any manufacturer.

AnttiK7

31st January 2018, 18:30

same opinion with bluuford, have plenty of members here,without working for any manufacturer.

My problem wasn't the opinion, but the fact that it was littered with personal insults. That's all.

Tarmop

31st January 2018, 18:35

"It's better to live dangerously 34 years, than to be bored for 84 years"
?

Indreq

31st January 2018, 19:25

As far as I understand you are working for Toyota's rally team so I'm not expecting a different reaction from you. But what I do expect are civilised messages and I would appreciate it if you would leave out any personal attacks. You don't know me at all and that type of postings on a public space I consider completely uncalled for. I am not attacking anyone personally on this thread, not even Mr. Tänak, something which I have already made clear a few times here. If you are happy to represent yourself working for Toyota here on this forum, then that type of postings are far worse publicity for them than the case we are talking about here.

Let me help you by compiling next complaint to FIA and everywhere else: "Toyota team representative is actively supporting breaking law, endangering innocent bystanders and threatening lives and wellbeing of everyone; as Toyota rally team is working under and can be considered subsidiary of Toyota Corp, it means that this is official position of Toyota, and thus OECD, UN, and national institutions should take steps to close Toyota dealerships and fine company for many billions of dollars for this outrageous behaviour. Also Toyota Corp has attacked me per personally by suggesting that i am wasting everybodys time and should get a life. By hinting that i do not have a life, i deduct that Toyota Corp has made threat or direct efforts to kill me and i am still alive only by chance."

janvanvurpa

31st January 2018, 19:37

As far as I understand you are working for Toyota's rally team so I'm not expecting a different reaction from you. But what I do expect are civilised messages and I would appreciate it if you would leave out any personal attacks. You don't know me at all and that type of postings on a public space I consider completely uncalled for. I am not attacking anyone personally on this thread, not even Mr. Tänak, something which I have already made clear a few times here. If you are happy to represent yourself working for Toyota here on this forum, then that type of postings are far worse publicity for them than the case we are talking about here.

Stackars pojke, you are not attacking anyboy with names but you are attacking our intelligence with outageous overblowing of a --what's the word in Angleski? une bagatelle or "making a mountain of a mole hill".

I spent 2 years in France racing.All over the whole country 4 to 6 races per month.. And I have been to Monte Carlo WRC..

NOBODY, rien, nada, niete, zilch, would give a flying f**k about this..
You heard the people there laughing..

Have you yourself seen how the French civilians drive? And how they drive when spectating?? THEY themselves are being silly as f**k any time there is snow---
There's an old saying there: "À Rome, fais comme les Romains. "Next door to you they say
"С волками жить -- по волчьи выть"? Literally: When you're living with wolfs, you're howling like a wolf.
In Brazilian portuguese they also say: " Em Roma, (faça) como os romanos.", meaning exactly "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." That's a very common proverb.

The people there on the spot laugh and giggle.. You should too...

And stop insulting us with this hand-wringing.....makes me think you've turned into a Swede. Or worse an American!

AnttiK7

31st January 2018, 19:45

"It's better to live dangerously 34 years, than to be bored for 84 years"
?

1. To my understanding you are quoting Adelaide Siffert, sister of the late Jo Siffert, those are not my words.
2. I would prefer if you wouldn't draw my videos or me as a person to this discussion at all. Those things have nothing to do with this issue we are talking about. If you want to go that way, in my videos you will find plenty of behavior I don't agree with but it's art, I don't have to personally stand behind every word or act.
3. I am a continuously evolving person like everyone and what I thought at one point in time doesn't mean that will always be the case for eternity. So questioning my views based on a video I did in 2010 seems like a pointless effort to me.

But ok, that's enough off-topic.

danon

31st January 2018, 19:52

My problem...

https://i.imgur.com/zbXUW.gif

AnttiK7

31st January 2018, 19:58

Have you yourself seen how the French civilians drive? And how they drive when spectating?? THEY themselves are being silly as f**k any time there is snow

All the more important that the professionals behave themselves.

TypeR

31st January 2018, 19:59

But ok, that's enough off-topic.
You should have started the whole thread with that...

hannes36

31st January 2018, 20:21

https://youtu.be/5O-INzThaZ0?t=11 you should report some other drives too, seems like sideways is quite popular on road sections.

the sniper

31st January 2018, 20:27

https://youtu.be/5O-INzThaZ0?t=11 you should report some other drives too, seems like sideways is quite popular on road sections.

This sh*t just got real...

Shut it down. Shut it all down!

AnttiK7

31st January 2018, 20:40

https://youtu.be/5O-INzThaZ0?t=11 you should report some other drives too, seems like sideways is quite popular on road sections.

Thanks for the video! This actually only makes it look worse for Tänak unfortunately. Pay attention when Ogier gives some sideways action from 0:20 onwards on a road section. Tänak drives the same bit of road section from 1:20 onwards as if he is on a stage and not on a public road. Yeah I'm not approving of Ogier's driving either, but this just makes it look worse for Tänak. I guess a lot of that is that they want to desperately keep some temperature in the tires and brakes, but it doesn't make it ok. It's good to have more footage though, thanks!

Tarmop

31st January 2018, 20:45

How can you even sleep at night, in this awful world where everything needs repairing?

Lock this thread and let him make his letter to FIA if it grows his...ummm...whatever.

EstWRC

31st January 2018, 20:49

unbelievable, what a coincidence....just right after estonians have joined Toyota, kind of finnish team and performed very well on the first rally, a finnish guy pops out and starts to blame Tänak for making bad reputation for rally even though there is every bit of evidence the other drivers doing the same on the vid hannes posted...yet you still only talk about Tänak.

what a coincidence...

Indreq

31st January 2018, 20:50

Thanks for the video! This actually only makes it look worse for Tänak unfortunately. Pay attention when Ogier gives some sideways action from 0:20 onwards on a road section. Tänak drives the same bit of road section from 1:20 onwards as if he is on a stage and not on a public road. Yeah I'm not approving of Ogier's driving either, but this just makes it look worse for Tänak. I guess a lot of that is that they want to desperately keep some temperature in the tires and brakes, but it doesn't make it ok. It's good to have more footage though, thanks!

wow you really amaze me - somehow now Ogier and Mikkelsen going sideways makes it look worse for Tänak... thats some world class logic. You ***** human being just dont know when to quit, do you?

Epik

31st January 2018, 20:51

Thanks for the video! This actually only makes it look worse for Tänak unfortunately. Pay attention when Ogier gives some sideways action from 0:20 onwards on a road section. Tänak drives the same bit of road section from 1:20 onwards as if he is on a stage and not on a public road. Yeah I'm not approving of Ogier's driving either, but this just makes it look worse for Tänak. I guess a lot of that is that they want to desperately keep some temperature in the tires and brakes, but it doesn't make it ok. It's good to have more footage though, thanks!

How does it make things worse for Tänakr ? Ogier is using phone on road section and drifting aswell :D. You should totally send another email..

dimviii

31st January 2018, 20:54

Thanks for the video! This actually only makes it look worse for Tänak unfortunately. Pay attention when Ogier gives some sideways action from 0:20 onwards on a road section. Tänak drives the same bit of road section from 1:20 onwards as if he is on a stage and not on a public road. Yeah I'm not approving of Ogier's driving either, but this just makes it look worse for Tänak. I guess a lot of that is that they want to desperately keep some temperature in the tires and brakes, but it doesn't make it ok. It's good to have more footage though, thanks!

a member here works for FIA.
search for user ''NOT'',he will help you.

Franky

31st January 2018, 21:02

a member here works for FIA.
search for user ''NOT'',he will help you.

I think he, N.O.T already said something here

TypeR

31st January 2018, 21:04

Thanks for the video! This actually only makes it look worse for Tänak unfortunately. Pay attention when Ogier gives some sideways action from 0:20 onwards on a road section. Tänak drives the same bit of road section from 1:20 onwards as if he is on a stage and not on a public road. Yeah I'm not approving of Ogier's driving either, but this just makes it look worse for Tänak. I guess a lot of that is that they want to desperately keep some temperature in the tires and brakes, but it doesn't make it ok. It's good to have more footage though, thanks!

haha, sorry, but you are a clown.
have you ever driven a car yourself?

dimviii

31st January 2018, 21:04

I think he, N.O.T already said something here

he cant speak free on a open forum due ti his position.
I am sure that if he sent him a pm he will help him.

AnttiK7

31st January 2018, 21:10

AnttiK7

31st January 2018, 21:16

Also if you want to look at it that way it is also a problem in terms of the competition if there's one guy who drives the liaisons like a cowboy warming up tires and brakes every possible chance he can and another who actually follows road traffic rules. The nice guy will have at least a small disadvantage with colder brakes and tires. But that's a different issue.

TypeR

31st January 2018, 21:16

I said I didn't approve of Ogier's driving, especially if the slide was self induced but that's so slow speed that I wouldn't make headlines about it. Tänak on the other hand is setting up his car into the hairpin already as if he is on a stage and just floors it past the camera guy. Perhaps Ogier was just smart enough to slow down immediately when he saw the camera.

And like I have stated before, this is nothing to do with nationality, person in question, speed on the stages or anything else. If Latvala, Lappi, Ogier or whoever else took the same bit of road the same way, my views and actions would not change.

THIS - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOwXTr5bdvc&t=43s means ,floors out'' not what you can see from either videos..
How can you say that it doesn't matter to you, if it was Tanak or not?

the sniper

31st January 2018, 21:22

It's good to have more footage though, thanks!

What are you actually getting out of this thread? I find your 'contribution' to this forum so far utterly bizarre. Of all the things in rallying you could talk about, all the subjects you could have contributed to or joined to discuss, I can't get why any fan would be so solely focused on this subject.

It'd makes more sense if this was some next level trolling exercise by NOT in disguise...

Epik

31st January 2018, 21:26

drive

31st January 2018, 21:32

Ogier slides pas minivan - no problem, other drivers slides - no problem, Ogier using mobile phone while driving - no problem, etc... Ott sliding, and he was faster on actual stages in comparison with some fins - THATS THE PROBLEM, WORD END... cmon Antti, and you are saying you are not nationalistic?
Get a life...

Carbon

31st January 2018, 21:34

Im quite sure that guy forgot to buy bills this month, tomorrow is a new month, hopefully he will get his retirement money and can buy some. Happy good February everyone and that guy is a real idiot. I unsubscribed this true idiot from youtube aswell, nothing to do if he is making fake videos and saying his a fan of motorsport. Haha.

Jakem

31st January 2018, 21:40

I said I didn't approve of Ogier's driving, especially if the slide was self induced but that's so slow speed that I wouldn't make headlines about it. Tänak on the other hand is setting up his car into the hairpin already as if he is on a stage and just floors it past the camera guy. Perhaps Ogier was just smart enough to slow down immediately when he saw the camera.
You are little pissed out girl. So actually you approve Ogiers driving because its for your eyes slower, than Tanaks. So lets say if the drifting speed is for you under 50km/h its ok? And now its much more worse to Tanak because his speed was 51km/h while drifing. And you were there and measured it.
We all see it allready form your first post that you want something happen only with Tanak you allways close your little eyes then its somebody else.
You have made of yourself a good example how stupid and ridicilous can one girl be