Third Fiesta - If you were Malcolm who would you use on which rally ?

[KiwiWRCfan]

Would you like to be a team principle and be faced with their decisions.
Their are several names being linked with possible part seasons driving a third M-Sport Ford World Rally Team Fiesta.
Who would you select for each rally ?

Monte - Bouffier
Sweden - Ostberg
Corsica - Camilli
Mexico - Suninen
Portugal - Suninen
Argentina - Ostberg
Sardegna - Suninen
Finland - Suninen
Deutschland - Camilli
Turkey - Suninen
Wales GB - Suninen
Catalunya - Camilli
Australia - Ostberg

[N.O.T]

the one who pays the most.

[tommeke_B]

Monte - Bouffier
Sweden - Suninen
Corsica - Suninen
Mexico - Suninen
Portugal - Suninen
Argentina - Suninen
Sardegna - Suninen
Finland - Suninen
Deutschland - Suninen
Turkey - Suninen
Wales GB - Suninen
Catalunya - Suninen
Australia - Suninen

[Watson]

Monte - Bouffier
Sweden - Ostberg
Corsica - Camilli
Mexico - Suninen
Portugal - Suninen
Argentina - Ostberg
Sardegna - Suninen
Finland - Suninen
Deutschland - Camilli
Turkey - Suninen
Wales GB - Suninen
Catalunya - Camilli
Australia - Ostberg

That.

Edit: I like tommekes suggestion as well though :D

[Hartusvuori]

On all loose surfaces Suninen would outshine both Camilli and Östberg. On tarmac it'd be between Bouffier and Camilli, give Teemu an R5 to gain more experience, maybe Catalunya for first tarmac event in WRC. For planning future prospects, it'd be Suninen only all the year.

[Watson]

On all loose surfaces Suninen would outshine both Camilli and Östberg. On tarmac it'd be between Bouffier and Camilli, give Teemu an R5 to gain more experience, maybe Catalunya for first tarmac event in WRC. For planning future prospects, it'd be Suninen only all the year.

Good point. Ogier will retire eventually and by that time Suninen could be red hot if he gets a lot of wheeltime now.

I think Østberg could be faster in certain gravel events if he gets the worksteam info on the setup. He does have loads more experience after all.

[BigWorm]

I’d swap Suninen for Camilli in GB

[Simmi]

With Ogier seemingly being a year to year proposition as team leader at M-Sport, like Watson says they do need to think about a succession plan. Tricky one though, as if you're Suninen you've got to be thinking about 2019 - and that next off-season where almost everyone's contract is up for renewal. Maybe only two drivers are contracted through 2019.

Anyway for me I think it would be a huge shame if we never saw Tidemand given a good shot in a WRC. So if I could pick I'd split the rounds between Pontus and Teemu, allowing them also both a chance at the WRC2 title in between. I'm just slightly conscious of promoting Suninen too early, so this would at least give him more chances to increase his experience without constant pressure.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It depends on what M-Sport's priority is... if they are looking short-term to fight for the 2018 titles, or long-term to produce a future WRC winner.

Given they have kept Ogier I think the Drivers' title is the most likely, so they will look long-term for the 3rd car (money-permitting).

[Andre Oliveira]

How many times M-Sport needed Evans’ manufacturers points? 3

Argentina
Evans 22 instead Ogier 14

Finland
Evans 22 instead Ogier 0

Wales
Evans 25 instead Ogier 17

[pantealex]

How many times M-Sport needed Evans’ manufacturers points? 3

Argentina
Evans 22 instead Ogier 14

Finland
Evans 22 instead Ogier 0

Wales
Evans 25 instead Ogier 17

Tänak did bring points everytime ;)

[BigWorm]

How many times M-Sport needed Evans’ manufacturers points? 3

Argentina
Evans 22 instead Ogier 14

Finland
Evans 22 instead Ogier 0

Wales
Evans 25 instead Ogier 17

Wasn't Tänak the one not scoring points for M-Sport in GB? Only time he was the worst placed M-Sport driver when he finished.

[Andre Oliveira]

Wasn't Tänak the one not scoring points for M-Sport in GB? Only time he was the worst placed M-Sport driver when he finished.

Yes. My bad

[Andre Oliveira]

How many times M-Sport needed Evans’ manufacturers points? 3

Argentina
Evans 22 instead Ogier 14

Finland
Evans 22 instead Ogier 0

Wales
Evans 25 instead Tänak 8

Fixed

[Andre Oliveira]

According juwra.com

Ogier, Sebastien: 186
Neuville, Thierry: 184
Tanak, Ott: 171
Latvala, Jari-Matti: 121
Meeke, Kris: 78
Hanninen, Juho: 77
Sordo Castillo, Daniel: 76
Evans, Elfyn: 71
Paddon, Hayden: 67
Breen, Craig: 60
Lappi, Esapekka: 53
Mikkelsen, Andreas: 52
Lefebvre, Stephane: 46

*Drivers that have scored manufacturers points for the team.

[Watson]

Fixed

Not really. Power Stage points don't apply for the manus. Furthermore, Evans scored 10 in Poland after Tanak retired. So Evans scored 71 juicy points that would be all the more valuable if Hyundai fix their suspension issues.

[Andre Oliveira]

Ok but what we can think about 2018? If Ogier and Evans do the normal job, 3rd car is not much important. Only like a backup point scorer. Thats why i like the idea of specialists rally by rally

[Watson]

Ok but what we can think about 2018? If Ogier and Evans do the normal job, 3rd car is not much important. Only like a backup point scorer. Thats why i like the idea of specialists rally by rally

I like it too but I think they can extract more points by using specialists because of road position advantage. I also think that Suninen could be faster than Evans in certain rallys, maybe even faster than Ogier in Finland. Camilli can do solid performances on Asphalt and Bouffier is the one driver outside of WRC/WRC2 you'd want in your car in Monte. Østberg can perform wonderfully if everything comes together as well.

[Mirek]

Would you like to be a team principle and be faced with their decisions.
Their are several names being linked with possible part seasons driving a third M-Sport Ford World Rally Team Fiesta.
Who would you select for each rally ?

Monte - Bouffier
Sweden - Ostberg
Corsica - Camilli
Mexico - Suninen
Portugal - Suninen
Argentina - Ostberg
Sardegna - Suninen
Finland - Suninen
Deutschland - Camilli
Turkey - Suninen
Wales GB - Suninen
Catalunya - Camilli
Australia - Ostberg

It's not likely you can separate one rally from another. The driver needs confidence and a driver which drives full season is for sure better driver than the same one sitting at home and doing three selected events. Therefore I agree with Tommeke - if there is such option why not to give it all to Suninen?

[pantealex]

Remember that rallies are paired, have to use same setup in those.

[Barreis]

to answer the question from the title of the thread: no paying driver

[Fast Eddie WRC]

As I said before, I think the Driver's title will be M-Sport's priority and best chance in 2018.

If so the 3rd car/driver points wont be so important and the other teams drivers' can all take points off each other to help Ogier.

[Watson]

I don't share that view. Ford finally reaches deeper into its pockets, provides more tech support and puts their own name back into the team with minor intentions to see it top of the table at the end of next year? Doesn't sound plausible to me. To not enter a third car is to give up the manus.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I don't share that view. Ford finally reaches deeper into its pockets, provides more tech support and puts their own name back into the team with minor intentions to see it top of the table at the end of next year? Doesn't sound plausible to me. To not enter a third car is to give up the manus.

OK, but even if Ford are back to prioritise the Manu title they are not doing it full-tilt as they are not a full factory team. And even if they did, the other factory teams are even stronger next year with Tanak at Toyota and Mikkelsen at Hyundai...

Ogier for Drivers' is still their best chance of success IMO.

[RAS007]

Monte - Delecour
Sweden - Radstrom
Corsica - Auriol
Mexico - Sainz
Portugal - Biasion
Argentina - Kankkunen
Sardegna - Gronholm
Finland - Kankkunen
Deutschland - Delecour
Turkey - Sainz
Wales GB - Himself
Catalunya - Auriol
Australia - Gronholm

[Watson]

With all due respect, those guys are a bit too old and lack 'match-fitness'. Loeb and Bouffier might not be the youngest but they are constantly competing.

[Andre Oliveira]

Delecour too

[tomhlord]

With all due respect, those guys are a bit too old and lack 'match-fitness'. Loeb and Bouffier might not be the youngest but they are constantly competing.

Ha, I think it's said with some irony.

[tomhlord]

Two decent drivers in the two main cars for every event, then whoever can afford the third seat on a per-round basis. If no one pays, no third car.

Still not a fully-fledged manufacturer team and the car won the drivers and teams titles in 2017, so M-Sport has the right to charge top dollar for anyone who wants a seat. That's how you get some return on investment, especially when M-Sport has only managed to (so far) sell one of the current-spec cars, vs. many of the pre-2017 Fiestas.

[AnttiL]

Monte - Delecour
Sweden - Radstrom
Corsica - Auriol
Mexico - Sainz
Portugal - Biasion
Argentina - Kankkunen
Sardegna - Gronholm
Finland - Kankkunen
Deutschland - Delecour
Turkey - Sainz
Wales GB - Himself
Catalunya - Auriol
Australia - Gronholm

Ragnotti for Corsica, Panizzi for Catalunya, Mikkola for Wales, Blomqvist for Sweden, Alen for Portugal. And I'd switch Kankkunen to Australia and Grönholm to Finland.

[AL14]

I would invest in young guns. The only one worth investment now is Suninen, since all other young guys need R5 experience.

And I don't see the point to give the car to Bouffier in Monte. he is not going to give any value like money or points. Way better if Teemu will get some monte experience instead.

[AnttiL]

And I don't see the point to give the car to Bouffier in Monte. he is not going to give any value like money or points. Way better if Teemu will get some monte experience instead.

I think Suninen couldn't get a budget for the whole season, so the third car is open to anyone else with a bag of cash. Maybe it was planned for Camilli, but he failed to get the budget?

[electroliquid]

I would invest in young guns. The only one worth investment now is Suninen, since all other young guys need R5 experience.

I don't know, if what Malcolm doing could be calling investment - when driver reach winner's level, Malcolm still don't pay properly, so it's that he developing drivers for rival manufacturers, who gonna pay for driving. This third Fiesta's situation remains same as always - who has money get wheel.

[AMSS]

I don't know, if what Malcolm doing could be calling investment - when driver reach winner's level, Malcolm still don't pay properly, so it's that he developing drivers for rival manufacturers, who gonna pay for driving. This third Fiesta's situation remains same as always - who has money get wheel.

We`ll with the deals Malcolm makes with the drivers he will earn money even if the drivers go elsewhere after M-sport learning years.. :)

[Tarmop]

I would invest in young guns. The only one worth investment now is Suninen, since all other young guys need R5 experience.

And I don't see the point to give the car to Bouffier in Monte. he is not going to give any value like money or points. Way better if Teemu will get some monte experience instead.

He has been on the RMC podium in ERC/IRC, WRC2, WRC so i`d say there`s a strong possibility for points there.

[AnttiL]

He has been on the RMC podium in ERC/IRC, WRC2, WRC so i`d say there`s a strong possibility for points there.

Most importantly, he did the event last year.

[AL14]

I don't know, if what Malcolm doing could be calling investment - when driver reach winner's level, Malcolm still don't pay properly, so it's that he developing drivers for rival manufacturers, who gonna pay for driving. This third Fiesta's situation remains same as always - who has money get wheel.

What you say is what Malcom actually does. The investment is what I would do if that would be possible.
Of course it's just pure imagination. Malcom Wilson knows better what's the best thing to do.

[KiwiWRCfan]

With the 8 rounds for Suninen news this is how things appear to be shaping up
Monte - Bouffier t.b.c.
Sweden - Suninen
Corsica - Camilli t.b.c.
Mexico - Suninen
Portugal - Suninen
Argentina - Suninen
Sardegna - Suninen
Finland - Suninen
Deutschland - Camilli t.b.c.
Turkey - Suninen
Wales GB - Suninen
Catalunya - ??
Australia - ??

[Watson]

Possibly Kremer returns again for Deutschland? He wasn't really competitive though.

[AnttiL]

Possibly Kremer returns again for Deutschland? He wasn't really competitive though.

Not for third car

[Watson]

Not for third car
Probably not.

[pantealex]

With the 8 rounds for Suninen news this is how things appear to be shaping up
Monte - Bouffier t.b.c.
Sweden - Suninen
Corsica - Camilli t.b.c.
Mexico - Suninen
Portugal - Suninen
Argentina - Suninen
Sardegna - Suninen
Finland - Suninen
Deutschland - Camilli t.b.c.
Turkey - Suninen
Wales GB - Suninen
Catalunya - ??
Australia - ??

That could be plan for Suninen
If everything goes well, he is fast and reliable, maybe podium place?
He will get to drive last 2 events also. (without paying to Malcolm, I mean)

[AL14]

He has been on the RMC podium in ERC/IRC, WRC2, WRC so i`d say there`s a strong possibility for points there.

ERC/IRC mean nothing. WRC is another sport. He arrived second in 2014 only because he's been lucky with tires.

[Mirek]

ERC/IRC mean nothing. WRC is another sport. He arrived second in 2014 only because he's been lucky with tires.

You have to see it from both sides - he didn't have thousands of kilometers in WRC behind him like the others. It's always kind of amiracle when somebody suceed in such one-off starts.

And by the way speaking about luck on Monte Carlo is ehm... some drivers have always luck, some never. You know what I mean (by the way his IRC victory was also about this "luck" when he and Loix were the only top drivers with somewhat good tyre choice in the critical moment but Loix had a puncture).

[AL14]

You have to see it from both sides - he didn't have thousands of kilometers in WRC behind him like the others. It's always kind of amiracle when somebody suceed in such one-off starts.

And by the way speaking about luck on Monte Carlo is ehm... some drivers have always luck, some never. You know what I mean (by the way his IRC victory was also about this "luck" when he and Loix were the only top drivers with somewhat good tyre choice in the critical moment but Loix had a puncture).

Don't get me wrong Mirek. Or maybe I shuold have explained it better. I think Bouffier is a strong driver and especially in Monte he is very good and has achieved a lot of results. He knows that rally very well and I respect him of course.
Said that if I have to give a third car, he would not be in the top of my list. I tell you why:
He is good at Monte but he is not the fastest. 2014 shows that. He had a huge advantage after the right tire choice in the first days but he was continuously losing time to other WRC drivers (that's why I said IRC is another thing, he wins there, but he has not the pace in WRC).

M-Sport already have Evans and Ogier, two experienced and reliable drivers that most likely will take points. I would rather invest that seat to a young gun and give him experience for the future. Experience is very important, ecpecially in a unique rally like this.
Even better if he pays well.

[Tarmop]

It`s still a tricky rally where everything can happen. Learning in a R5 car makes total sense, learning in a WRC could be just an expensive crash...or when one of the two "works" cars goes off/breaks down. In terms of championship a solid finisher, especially a good place finisher, is more safe.

[Munkvy]

Don't get me wrong Mirek. Or maybe I shuold have explained it better. I think Bouffier is a strong driver and especially in Monte he is very good and has achieved a lot of results. He knows that rally very well and I respect him of course.
Said that if I have to give a third car, he would not be in the top of my list. I tell you why:
He is good at Monte but he is not the fastest. 2014 shows that. He had a huge advantage after the right tire choice in the first days but he was continuously losing time to other WRC drivers (that's why I said IRC is another thing, he wins there, but he has not the pace in WRC).

M-Sport already have Evans and Ogier, two experienced and reliable drivers that most likely will take points. I would rather invest that seat to a young gun and give him experience for the future. Experience is very important, ecpecially in a unique rally like this.
Even better if he pays well.

Or if you were Malcolm Wilson and you wanted to defend your championship with the strongest start to the year possible, it would make sense to find the best "local" driver who knows the event well. Use him to get you points if it works out, and he will no doubt be able to bring local knowledge and resources that can help your whole team on the event too. I think it's a smart choice. Especially when you compare Bouffier having done the event 8 times compared to the 4 times of Evans.

[Myrvold]

Not for third car

If no one else is lined up, why not. If any of the main drivers retire and he finishes there are some points at least. Better than no driver.

[swanny]

And it's.... Bouffier for Monte and Corsica

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/january-2018/bouffier-msport/page/5115--12-12-.html

[RS]

And it's.... Bouffier for Monte and Corsica

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/january-2018/bouffier-msport/page/5115--12-12-.html

Press release makes it very much sound like MSport did 'hire' Bouffier, although of course we can see his sponsors on the car I doubt they are footing the whole bill.

Does this mean Malcolm has given up on Camilli? Or could Bouffier just make a greater financial contribution?

[AnttiL]

Press release makes it very much sound like MSport did 'hire' Bouffier, although of course we can see his sponsors on the car I doubt they are footing the whole bill.

Does this mean Malcolm has given up on Camilli? Or could Bouffier just make a greater financial contribution?

Well at least Bouffier has a whole sponsor livery. Suninen and Camilli drove last year on M-Sport liveries with Suninen just having some extra sponsor decals, Camilli none. Also, would a whole livery cost to Bouffier's sponsors the same amount as it cost to DMack?

[Tarmop]

DMack/Bertelli/Kremer didn`t have any Ford-related logos (maybe small M-Sport somewhere, couldn`t be big for sure) on it, whereas Bouffier`s has several, one being Ford Performance. I`d say the amount is smaller.

[Rallyper]

I think Bouffier will be WDC looking at the way everyone from southern part of Europe talks about him on nearly every topic on WRC forums. ;)

[Rally Power]

Press release makes it very much sound like MSport did 'hire' Bouffier, although of course we can see his sponsors on the car I doubt they are footing the whole bill.
Does this mean Malcolm has given up on Camilli? Or could Bouffier just make a greater financial contribution?

Suninen is reportedly paying for his seat, there’s no doubt Bouffier sponsors are supporting his entries and Camilli was never a paying driver at MSport. No money, no fun; that’s MSport 3rd car motto.