Rally Mexico 2018

[Essaj]

I want to punch Porter, looking at the splits there is no lifting from Loeb, Doubt Mikkelsen is lifting either. Latvala's time is just that good.

[EstWRC]

Tänak and Neuville coming after Ogier so i guess we wont see them.

[er88]

Tänak and Neuville coming after Ogier so i guess we wont see them.Nor should they be shown tbf. Ogier wasn't shown in Sweden

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[mknight]

I want to punch Porter, looking at the splits there is no lifting from Loeb, Doubt Mikkelsen is lifting either. Latvala's time is just that good.

And he keeps on repeating it.... jeez. Loeb was 4s down on Latvala on first split and 4 in the end.

[KKS]

Meeke slower than Loeb.

[steve.mandzij]

Nor should they be shown tbf. Ogier wasn't shown in Sweden

Sent from my SM-G920F using TapatalkFarcical. We won't get to follow their stage live to see how they finish on the PS.

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[A FONDO]

turn off your stupid tapatalk signature already! it's just a tick in checkbox in the main settings!!!

[stefanvv]

if the PS was 15+kms, Meeke wold lose the podium

[N.O.T]

pretty honest interview by meeke.

[noel157]

if the PS was 15+kms, Meeke wold lose the podium

Why? He drove accordingly.

[cali]

Apparently FIA asked teams not to play tactics in PS. Teams disageed...

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[EstWRC]

puncture for Sordo again.

[Simmi]

So Ogier in. Who next? Tanak? Neuville? Greensmith? Heller?

Ogier waited until after the WRC2 podium runners in Sweden for what it's worth.

[KKS]

Never give up Kris! never!

[steve.mandzij]

turn off your stupid tapatalk signature already! it's just a tick in checkbox in the main settings!!!Fair enough. Sorry :(

[EstWRC]

Ogier is pushing

[noel157]

Stupid situation allowed to happen. FIA, do something.


Sent from my washing machine iP73

[steve.mandzij]

Ogier esentially skipping the chicane.

[mknight]

Ogier esentially skipping the chicane.

Yep, and I suppose Neuville will do the same.
In Finland last year they gave penalties for that.

[KKS]

Ogier now cheat in chicane...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nice run Seb O. :)

[noel157]

Ogier now cheat in chicane...

Agree.

Sent from my microwave.

[Essaj]

This stage is a joke...

[HarriK]

Tänäk fastest by 0.4sec

[stefanvv]

Neuville is on the stage btw

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ha, showing Ogier cruising home not the last two.

[ESTR]

Who cares his drive now in city... stpid stupid stupid. There are two fast drivers behind to watch

[AL14]

Why that chicane? What was the reason?

[mknight]

Who cares his drive now in city... stpid stupid stupid. There are two fast drivers behind to watch

But that's the whole point. They mess up the TV show for promoter. So promoter sticks to their set schedule (showing rally winner), and does not show them.

[KKS]

noel157 - good signatures :D

[noel157]

Why that chicane? What was the reason?

TV and safety but mostly TV.

[noel157]

noel157 - good signatures :D

Thanks

Sent from my fridge

[A FONDO]

Fair enough. Sorry :(

Thank you.

I said it in plural by the way...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rally2 runner gaining advantage... even worse.

[noel157]

Load of bollix, disgrace.

[HaCo]

Ogier esentially skipping the chicane.
I remember Mikkelsen being punished for cutting too much, this one is for points...

[dimviii]

Neuville seems lost at last part with cobblestones

[KKS]

Latvala still fastest on 2nd split! I want to see that chicane pass from Ott! Seems like 1 year with Ogier make even smart guy - a moron

[cali]

Tänak fastest at PS. Neuville 4th

[steve.mandzij]

Tänak fastest at PS. Neuville 4thSick dog taking the penalty for nothing.

[KKS]

Split2:
JML +0
TAN +0.8
NEU +0.5

Split3:
JML +0
TAN -0.8
NEU -0.2

Finish:
JML +0
TAN -1.3
NEU +0.1

[eddy707]

Latvala really did a good stage considering his road position. Wasn't far off from winning it.

[wwbroe]

Anyone who has counted the points yet in championship?;)

[BigWorm]

Sick dog taking the penalty for nothing.

Nothing? I believe he got two points for that place.

[EstWRC]

YASSSSSSSSSS, so much joy from a little thing.

he should have been on the podium anyway or even a win i dare to say.

[stefanvv]

Split2:
JML +0
TAN +0.8
NEU +0.5

Split3:
JML +0
TAN -0.8
NEU -0.2

Finish:
JML +0
TAN -1.3
NEU +0.1

Do You really believe cutting a chicane can win 1.6 seconds?

[steve.mandzij]

Nothing? I believe he got two points for that place.Yeah, worded it wrong. I meant that I doubt he got too much of an advantage, like he took the penalty just to say "me too".

Cracking stage from Tanak though.

[steve.mandzij]

Do You really believe cutting a chicane can win 1.6 seconds?I suppose can win you .9

[dimviii]

Anyone who has counted the points yet in championship?;)

havent checked them,copy from French forum

Ogier 60 pts
Neuville 51 pts
Mikkelsen 34 pts
Meeke 32 pts
Latvala 30 pts

Tanak 26 pts

Lappi 23 pts
Breen 20 pts
Sordo 15 pts
Loeb 10 pts
Paddon 10 pts
Evans 8 pts

[Fast Eddie WRC]

In Sweden Ogier had an excuse to try to get consolation PS points... here Rally2 Tanak was taking the piss.

[wwbroe]

havent checked them,copy from French forum

Ogier 60 pts
Neuville 51 pts
Mikkelsen 34 pts
Meeke 32 pts
Latvala 30 pts

Tanak 26 pts

Lappi 23 pts
Breen 20 pts
Sordo 15 pts
Loeb 10 pts
Paddon 10 pts
Evans 8 pts

Thanks Dim:)

[Simmi]

Have to say I really enjoyed that power stage. But now the FIA have a month and a half to get off their backsides before the rule needs changing for Argentina.

[dimviii]

Tanak and Neuville without comments at official site after the power stage

[stefanvv]

In Sweden Ogier had an excuse to try to get consolation PS points... here Rally2 Tanak was taking the piss.

It wasn't because Ogier's tactics, it was against FIA trying to ban their own rules,

[BigWorm]

Yeah, worded it wrong. I meant that I doubt he got too much of an advantage, like he took the penalty just to say "me too".

Cracking stage from Tanak though.

Not the most ideal circumstances for him this rally. Anyway, 10 points in the bag is okay.

The only one so far to extract everything from this new penalty incurring trend is Tänak since Ogier didn't manage to go fastest in Sweden. I get why they are doing it but holy moly was this awful entertainment. Quite agonizing to watch this broadcast.

[A FONDO]

https://i.imgur.com/UNCGdzz.jpg

Hyundai 54 + 30 = 84

Ford 43 + 29 = 72

Citroen 46 + 25 = 71

Toyota 53 + 14 = 67

[AL14]

So Latvala is lead driver. Everybody was concerned but after 3 rallys he is ahead.

What a bad start for toyota though. I think it's a shame that they suffered the same problem as last year. Latvala and Tanak should be angry as Ogier was last year when Fiesta was having reliability problems.

[Simmi]

Nothing? I believe he got two points for that place.

Neuville got two points but Latvala went quicker from his actual start position. Which was one place before Thierry.

[mknight]

Have to say I really enjoyed that power stage. But now the FIA have a month and a half to get off their backsides before the rule needs changing for Argentina.

I mostly didn't tbh. Most was about who was doing what tactics (in the broadcast as well). Reminds me of the "let someone else pass me to clean the road" tactics from Friday/Saturday of the past.

Yes hope FIA changes rules really fast.

[wia5958]

In Sweden Ogier had an excuse to try to get consolation PS points... here Rally2 Tanak was taking the piss.

Wonder if tanak was still in a fiesta would that be your view

[ESTR]

1. Ogier 60
2. Neuville 51
3. Mikkelsen 34
4. Meeke 32
5. Latvala 30
6. Tanak 26
7. Lappi 23
8. Breen 20
9. Sordo 18
10. Loeb 10
= Paddon 10

Manus:
1. Hyundai 84
2. M-Sport 72
3. Citroen 71
4. Toyota 67

[KKS]

Do You really believe cutting a chicane can win 1.6 seconds?
Yep, not 1.6 sec but 0.5sec could be

[steve.mandzij]

So Latvala is lead driver. Everybody was concerned but after 3 rallys he is ahead.

What a bad start for toyota though. I think it's a shame that they suffered the same problem as last year. Latvala and Tanak should be angry as Ogier was last year when Fiesta was having reliability problems.He's the lead driver in points but Tanak is really equal on pace.

The championship is proving difficult for everyone right now. Neuville playing catch-up while Ogier still reigns as the master of capitalizing on the mistakes of others. I'm surprised at Meeke and Mikkelsen's positions, too :D

As for Latvala, he'll need a podium/win in Corsica and good luck for everyone ahead to stay low in the road order and go into Argentina with a smaller gap to the guys ahead.

[Simmi]

In Sweden Ogier had an excuse to try to get consolation PS points... here Rally2 Tanak was taking the piss.

Come on Eddie don't be that guy.

[steve.mandzij]

Also fair to say that Evans' future might be in very very big trouble. Lowest ranked driver bar Suninen (and not counting very occasional participants Ostberg and Bouffier), below Paddon who did only one event, driving the same car as Ogier and with a starting position to die for in the last two rallies. It's looking tough.

[N.O.T]

Come on Eddie don't be that guy.

he is british he cannot help it, his diability always wins...

you probably have some europe into your blood.

[stefanvv]

Yep, not 1.6 sec but 0.5sec could be

oh, I wasn't watching carefully, the gain really is before split3, at the end he actually lost some tenths.

[seb_sh]

PS was nobody's fault except the FIA. After they saw what happened in Sweden they should have taken action, it was bound to happen again given how tight last season was. It can only be described as incompetence, the rules have a clear loophole. This is similar to what was happening in the old days with start order given by rally order. The competitors should not be blamed instead they should make rules that encourage competition and are not so simply exploitable.

IMO the solution should simply be to apply the penalty for checking in late to the stage time, just like the rally2 penalty is applied, instead of directly to the overall. It's a small and simple tweak that reaches it's goal without too many complications. Of course the FIA will instead make some complicated decision that affects too many other things, grab the popcorn...

[mknight]

Also fair to say that Evans' future might be in very very big trouble. Lowest ranked driver bar Suninen (and not counting very occasional participants Ostberg and Bouffier), below Paddon who did only one event, driving the same car as Ogier and with a starting position to die for in the last two rallies. It's looking tough.

Nah, here he actually had pace before the crash. No chance he is getting dropped before end of season. So plenty of rallies to prove himself.

[KKS]

Great final rally recap on wrc+

[steve.mandzij]

Nah, here he actually had pace before the crash. No chance he is getting dropped before end of season. So plenty of rallies to prove himself.I'm not saying before the end, I'm saying for next year. There aren't many drivers in the pipeline (maybe Tidemand but I don't see how he'd be faster than Lappi, for instance) to replace him but he's not doing himself any favors.

[cosmin_sb]

I don't agree that FIA should change the rule in the midle of season. I know that what happened in the last two power stage are not fairplay but they didn't violeted any rules

[stefanvv]

PS was nobody's fault except the FIA. After they saw what happened in Sweden they should have taken action, it was bound to happen again given how tight last season was.

Neuville's pace on PS doesn't justify this circus, I said it before - rerun gravel stage doesn't make such difference as in Sweden.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier: "I'm also very pleased because I think we improved a lot since last year, the car seems faster on gravel. Together with Ford our engineers have done a good job to prepare this rally, at high altitude, now we have to see in Europe if we improved the same. That's good sign anyway!"

[KKS]

IMO the solution should simply be to apply the penalty for checking in late to the stage time, just like the rally2 penalty is applied, instead of directly to the overall. It's a small and simple tweak that reaches it's goal without too many complications. Of course the FIA will instead make some complicated decision that affects too many other things, grab the popcorn...
Really good point! :up:

[SubaruNorway]

Everybody had the chance to do it now, so no reason not to change the rules before Argentina since it's more fair now than if they had done it after Sweden.

[steve.mandzij]

Everybody had the chance to do it now, so no reason not to change the rules before Argentina since it's more fair now than if they had done it after Sweden.Everybody had the chance in Sweden too. Only Ogier had the idea.

[olemann]

Congratulations to ogier ;-)
and for a smart drive to Andreas even if the times did not match the way he is used to.
All in all a nice rally.

[KKS]

Everybody had the chance in Sweden too. Only Ogier had the idea.
Everybody know that trick, only Ogier start play with it (I even don't wonder... only one man in championship who can play dirty games) and he benefited from this and not been penalized. Soooo circus started and all other play this game too.

[focus206]

Really great rally by Ogier, no significant mistakes, everyone else had spins/punctures/technical troubles.
Great performance by Sordo, all in all good rally by Meeke as well. Neuville managed to scrap up some points at least.
Loeb, much faster than I thought he would be, can't wait for next event to see what more he can do.
And Toyota should up their game.

[Ucci]

Some thoughts over this weekend: the star Nb.1 by far Mr.Loeb ! He took away all the attention alreday before the start, but with every stage even his biggest enemies realized, that ''the devil ate the joke''. Nobody expected the he will lead the rally! Period! All attemps from other occasional guests driving new gen.WRC cars were-said gently-unnoticed. The change from former gen is way to big and therefore difficult.....but not for Mr.Perfect. I'm 100% sure, that the permanent WRC drivers will have some sleepless nights until Corsica.
Ok, enough praise for Loeb.
Seb Ogier surprised totally (look at the pickems), even himself. He used the same approach as many times: attacked where all others sufferd problems, drove some advantage & control it. Simple as white bread.....Good to see him back on the first position in the WRC ranking. He deserves it. And even took some points on PS.
Dani Sordo- very good result, he must be excited. This is going to be a huge pressure for his teammate Paddon.
Meeke-his face at the award ceremony tells all. He fuc#&* up the whole event; was very lucky even to finish it.
Mikkelsen-was he driving?? Completely unnoticed, loosing time....I expected much more from him.
Neuville-event to forget. Troubles, every day cleaning the road (welcome in club, Thierry); at the end the 6th place is more than expected after such a terrible event for him.
Toyota boys: even worse performance than 2017. I would expect from village boys to learn something from last year, but they skipped this lesson.
Ok, move to Europa & tarmac.

[BigWorm]

Drivers of the rally were both Sebs and Sordo for me, the Sebastiens were at their own best while Sordo showed some rare proper pace. Hard to tell where Tänak would have ended since he essentially missed the whole second leg but for the two out of three legs he could drive he was very good, so he'll get a positive grade from me.

Meeke got a podium but he could've won, and probably should've, and can only blame himself for not doing so, car was good as well as his pace but ultimately his mistakes were too many. Same old.

[macebig]

Nice win for Ford. Evans and Teemu should step up their game. Another catastrophic event for Toyota. Things looked great for them after Monte, but now with a tarmac event following, they may fall back in the Constructors. Loeb was really competitive. Hats off to the guy. Meeke always flirts with self destruction. Sordo was good. Neuville was killed by the starting order and a few issues. Mikkelsen was unanimous. But that was not necessarily bad. CU at Tour de Corse.

[Tarmop]

Latvala did well in Corsica so unless some unforeseen technical issues, it`s all about the drivers.
They have nowhere to fall anymore, as they are last.:D

[macebig]

Latvala did well in Corsica so unless some unforeseen technical issues, it`s all about the drivers.
They have nowhere to fall anymore, as they are last.:D

I can't see anyone of the Toyota trio being legitimately faster than Ogier/Meeke/Loeb/Neuville and probably Sordo/Mikkelsen on dry tarmac. Of course, things may change due to weather/luck.

[N.O.T]

It was a nice rally ruined by far too many silly mistakes, reliability problems and punctures that lead to a boring 1,5 day.

Now 1 month until the next one but surely the championship is very very interesting this year...

so what you are going to do during this month to satisfy your autism (don't call the FBI please) forum members ? I am going to count how many minutes the month has...

[A FONDO]

It was a nice rally ruined by far too many silly mistakes, reliability problems and punctures that lead to a boring 1,5 day.

Now 1 month until the next one but surely the championship is very very interesting this year...

so what you are going to do during this month to satisfy your autism (don't call the FBI please) forum members ? I am going to count how many minutes the month has...

http://www.easysurf.cc/monthtable.htm

what next?

[EstWRC]

Totally agree with NOT. Would have been amazing rallly and big fight without these punctures and technical problems.

But that’s rallying.

Mikkelsen the most disappointing for me.

Maestro performed exactly like I expected. Maybe took a little more time to settle in

[steve.mandzij]

Totally agree with NOT. Would have been amazing rallly and big fight without these punctures and technical problems.

But that’s rallying.

Mikkelsen the most disappointing for me.

Maestro performed exactly like I expected. Maybe took a little more time to settle inMikkelsen is a huge mystery. He's playing it very safely so far this season and it's working well for him.

[N.O.T]

http://www.easysurf.cc/monthtable.htm

what next?

thank you for the spoiler party crasher....

now i will be forced to cure cancer, but keep it a secret....

[macebig]

Est, since Tanak was out, the rally was over for you, right?

[N.O.T]

Est, since Tanak was out, the rally was over for you, right?

Its his country man so its normal... it is ok to support you countries entries, it gets sad when you get blinded, and it gets really really funny when you become a hopeless case like some finish friends who after years of manager fake dominance in the sport they turned into mice running away from the big mean french cats....

[Simmi]

A bit of hoonage out of final service from Ogier - https://twitter.com/SebOgier/status/972944034053410816

[ESTR]

Why everyone spit on Mikkelsen, he is sitting in 3rd. Maybe he is playing smart and where he can't be fastest he benefits from taking the most he can. Like Ogier always do. And what Tanak do. After Monte he is pushing and do mistakes. And everytime slipping way back. And Latvala too. He struggle too much. Then there is Evans, Teemu - completely off pace, not even interesting to watch. Toyota - complete disaster. Not gonna say anything more.

Most dissappointing thing is that after 3 months and 3 events already, timing and live is still shity as hell. Well at least previous years there was times brought faster and more accurate. Always freezing and technical issues. And it's not worth any money for a full year...

[N.O.T]

Why everyone spit on Mikkelsen, he is sitting in 3rd. Maybe he is playing smart and where he can't be fastest he benefits from taking the most he can. Like Ogier always do. And what Tanak do. After Monte he is pushing and do mistakes. And everytime slipping way back. And Latvala too. He struggle too much. Then there is Evans, Teemu - completely off pace, not even interesting to watch. Toyota - complete disaster. Not gonna say anything more.

because you have to look at the big picture... you would expect someone at the age of Mikkelsen and with his experience to challenge for stage wins constantly and be a championship contender or at least a rally winner and someone that opponents see as a threat.

We have ostberg if we want a hopleless case with a big pocket daddy.

[Tarmop]

What mistakes Tänak has made this season, apart from that misunderstanding with Meeke, where it wasn`t going brilliantly for him anyway?
Teemu has an excuse, being just a rookie, but unless he improves his depressive mentality, it would be hard for him to improve...same with Lappi.

[steve.mandzij]

What mistakes Tänak has made this season, apart from that misunderstanding with Meeke, where it wasn`t going brilliantly for him anyway?
Teemu has an excuse, being just a rookie, but unless he improves his depressive mentality, it would be hard for him to improve...same with Lappi.I agree that Teemu and Lappi are very very negative. It's good that they enjoy pushing themselves and won't be satisfied until they reach the level they desire but it's a dangerous state of mind, especially for Teemu being so young and quick. Latvala has been hard on himself his whole career, but it paid off when his constant search for improvement let him put things behind him (early career) rather than in 2016.

Also, Tanak has been quite unlucky so far. Sweden was his mistake but the road order did him no favors, and his engine issue here definitely put him out of contention for a very possible podium early on.

I'm surprised that Latvala was able to clear his head before Mexico after being so flustered in Sweden when Ott began to beat him regularly.

[Essaj]

Justice happened, Ogier got a 10 second on time penalty on a power stage for hitting the chicane.
Means no power stage points for Ogi and Latvala, Neuville, Mikkelsen and Loeb gain 1 additional point.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYDFai8X4AAm226?format=jpg&name=large

[AndyRAC]

Well Ogier did hit the chicane, so he can't really complain, but seems a harsh punishment. Can't help feeling after Sweden, he's a marked man.

However, who the hell are the stewards? What qualifications have they for sitting? Where did they drag them up from? They sound like the 3 stooges...(Sorry, but I despise officials in all sports; full of their own self importance)

[stefanvv]

Isn't this the same as hitting a side rock a snow bank, how is it any different? Hit it at your own risk, it might damage your car as well. Plain stupid decision. What is the punishment for Meeke hitting plaints?

[sollitt]

Well Ogier did hit the chicane, so he can't really complain, but seems a harsh punishment. Can't help feeling after Sweden, he's a marked man.

However, who the hell are the stewards? What qualifications have they for sitting? Where did they drag them up from? They sound like the 3 stooges...(Sorry, but I despise officials in all sports; full of their own self importance)They're probably 3 well qualified stewards who've given a lifetime of service to the sport.
What, in the above report, suggests that they are "stooges" or that they're full of their own importance? They have an important job to perform without fear or favour. Seems that they have done just that.

[Zeakiwi]

I recall Meeke was given a time penalty for doing some cutting on another event a few years back. Ogi lucky those stewards were not there.
Meeke rally aus 2014 1 min 1 second penalty.
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september/meeke-cutting-corner/page/1762--12-12-.html

https://www.adac-rallye-deutschland.de/uk/artikel/interview-with-waltraud-wuensch-the-next-rally-starts-right-after-the-last-one-140462 (right guy? - secretary Rally Germany)
https://www.fia.com/profile/officers/hugo-mersan (Paraguay - Formula 1 and WRC - long list for the cv)

Carlos Cordero, Director of the FIA NACAM Rally Championship.

[steve.mandzij]

Isn't this the same as hitting a side rock a snow bank, how is it any different? Hit it at your own risk, it might damage your car as well. Plain stupid decision. What is the punishment for Meeke hitting plaints?How can you compare the two? When you hit a snowbank you lose time. When Kris hit the plants he lost time. Ogier hit the empty barricades and pushed them away easily, with no risk of damage, and gained time.

I can't see how you couldn't understand why Ogier got a penalty.

[stefanvv]

How can you compare the two? When you hit a snowbank you lose time. When Kris hit the plants he lost time. Ogier hit the empty barricades and pushed them away easily, with no risk of damage, and gained time.

I can't see how you couldn't understand why Ogier got a penalty.

Ok, let's agree on this stupidity. Why he hadn't penalty on the the previous stage with the same outcome?

[er88]

Isn't this the same as hitting a side rock a snow bank, how is it any different? Hit it at your own risk, it might damage your car as well. Plain stupid decision. What is the punishment for Meeke hitting plaints?

Ofcourse it is different. Ogier gained a small advantage and knew he wasn't going to damage his car doing it. Neuville did it on the first pass as well and he could've/ should've been punished too (although no point as nobody was close to him and it wasn't for power stage pts).

As for Meeke hitting the plant pot, any person with sight and a working brain knows he lost time with that MISTAKE and it was nothing alike to the chicane incident. I really hope you aren't being serious with that, because there's no help for you if you genuinely think Meeke deliberately tried that in an effort to gain a few tenths :D

[steve.mandzij]

Ok, let's agree on this stupidity. Why he hadn't penalty on the the previous stage with the same outcome?If I understand correctly, you mean he nudged the chicane on the first pass too, in which case it's not as serious because extra points are not at stake.

[stefanvv]

If I understand correctly, you mean he nudged the chicane on the first pass too, in which case it's not as serious because extra points are not at stake.

Are You serious?:D

[steve.mandzij]

Are You serious?:DI ask the same :D

[stefanvv]

As for Meeke hitting the plant pot, any person with sight and a working brain knows he lost time with that MISTAKE and it was nothing alike to the chicane incident. I really hope you aren't being serious with that, because there's no help for you if you genuinely think Meeke deliberately tried that in an effort to gain a few tenths :D

I really want to see Your's brain measurement for the time gain/loss in both cases. I'm serious

[stefanvv]

I ask the same :D

And there is no answer, pitty

[steve.mandzij]

And there is no answer, pittyI don't know how much more you want me to say. It's fairly simple really: cutting a chicane made with hollow plastic barriers deliberately after testing their rigidity on the first pass through the stage is penalty worthy because it's a time gaining situation.

How you could argue that hitting a rock or a couple of potted trees gives you and advantage like cutting the chicane makes no sense at all. Because, whereas hitting the chicane makes you go through the obstacles faster by moving them, hitting rocks or solid pots make you slow down because they're hard objects that could also damage your car.

It's a shame you're trying to defend your point at this stage because it really makes no sense. Or at least you haven't made it clear yet. This is as easy as I can make it to understand.

[stefanvv]

How you could argue that hitting a rock or a couple of potted trees gives you and advantage like cutting the chicane makes no sense at all.

A simple question - since when cutting a corner (no matter hitting something or not) or use a snow bank to preserve speed are new to rallying?

[steve.mandzij]

A simple question - since when cutting a corner (no matter hitting something or not) or use a snow bank to preserve speed are new to rallying?Since never.

But cutting excessively receives penalties.

You're never not supposed to cut a corner, as long as you don't completely skip it you're probably fine.

If you're not supposed to cut a chicane and go through it without knocking the obstacle around, why should you not be punished?

If you're doing a race where you're not supposed to knock over cones or you'll get a penalty, why shouldn't you get punished for hitting cones? It's the same principle. You're explicitly not supposed to move the chicane, never explicitly not allowed to have one or two wheels off the road or in a snowbank. You're baffling me.

[stefanvv]

I was little curious about the broken rule, and here it is:

"14.2 ROAD BOOK / ITINERARY
All crews will receive a road book containing a detailed description of the compulsory itinerary which must
be followed. The compulsory itinerary of the rally is defined in the Road Book by the road direction diagrams
and, between the road direction diagrams, by the defined roadway. Furthermore, on the special stages the
organisers may erect barriers or any other hindrances where they believe competitors have deviated from
the roadway during reconnaissance or the first running of the stages.
Any deviation will be reported to the Stewards."

I completely don't understand the reference in this though:

"13.3.4
Attribution of ‘Power Stage’ points
Points will be awarded according to the scale as described in Art. 5.3.2.
For the purpose of allocating points, the Power Stage Classification shall be calculated using the stage time
plus any other time penalty accrued on this stage, including any false start penalty.
To score points, a driver must be classified in the Final Classification of the rally.
If a driver appears in the Power Stage classification but is not classified in the Final Classification of the rally,
the Stewards shall decide whether the next Competitor should be moved up in the Power Stage classification
for the attribution of Power Stage points.
If the Power Stage is definitively stopped before all P1 drivers eligible to start the Power Stage have had the
opportunity to complete the stage, the FIA may decide that no points are awarded for the Power Stage."

Perhaps some lawyer here can explain those?
How much You define deviation from the route in 14.2 - 2 inches? A penalty for the PS time seem to be defined only for false start time - did Ogier broke that rule?

[steve.mandzij]

I was little curious about the broken rule, and here it is:

"14.2 ROAD BOOK / ITINERARY
All crews will receive a road book containing a detailed description of the compulsory itinerary which must
be followed. The compulsory itinerary of the rally is defined in the Road Book by the road direction diagrams
and, between the road direction diagrams, by the defined roadway. Furthermore, on the special stages the
organisers may erect barriers or any other hindrances where they believe competitors have deviated from
the roadway during reconnaissance or the first running of the stages.
Any deviation will be reported to the Stewards."

I completely don't understand the reference in this though:

"13.3.4
Attribution of ‘Power Stage’ points
Points will be awarded according to the scale as described in Art. 5.3.2.
For the purpose of allocating points, the Power Stage Classification shall be calculated using the stage time
plus any other time penalty accrued on this stage, including any false start penalty.
To score points, a driver must be classified in the Final Classification of the rally.
If a driver appears in the Power Stage classification but is not classified in the Final Classification of the rally,
the Stewards shall decide whether the next Competitor should be moved up in the Power Stage classification
for the attribution of Power Stage points.
If the Power Stage is definitively stopped before all P1 drivers eligible to start the Power Stage have had the
opportunity to complete the stage, the FIA may decide that no points are awarded for the Power Stage."

Perhaps some lawyer here can explain those?
How much You define deviation from the route in 14.2 - 2 inches? A penalty for the PS time seem to be defined only for false start time - did Ogier broke that rule?It says that penalties incurred in the stage count towards it's time, including the false start penalty and I suppose any penalty for cutting corners as well. Correct?

[stefanvv]

It says that penalties incurred in the stage count towards it's time, including the false start penalty and I suppose any penalty for cutting corners as well. Correct?

Correct, but on what ground is the time penalty in 14.2 penalized in 13.3.4? It says organizers can raise obstacles if a driver deviates from the route on the first pass. But in the decision doesn't state that, it says the obstacles are exactly in the same position (and what of it? this is only driver's concern)? I'm a bit confused, looks like they've fallen in their own trap.

How much should be penalized Neuville & Mikkelsen going in the banks several times with more than 2 inches deviation?

[dimviii]

https://twitter.com/akikojmlfani/status/973003992514129921


new classification
https://www.ewrc-results.com/season/

[EstWRC]

Est, since Tanak was out, the rally was over for you, right?

No, it was over when Sordo and Loeb had punctures.

Like NOT said, it was fun for 1.5 days but it would have been fun for all 3 days without the troubles.

[AnttiL]

A simple question - since when cutting a corner (no matter hitting something or not) or use a snow bank to preserve speed are new to rallying?

The difference here is that the road book does not contain every single corner - just tells which road to drive, how long, which junction to turn. And of course, anything artificial such as chicanes, and they should not be deviated from.

And a steward’s decision is not automated, it takes a human decision. If Ogier’s time had been slow enough not to get any points in the first place, I doubt the penalty would have been issued.

Stewards are often old professionals, I think Grönholm’s co-driver Timo Rautiainen used to be one.

[Indreq]

To my understanding, thats one of the reasons these stewards exist - to evaluate such situations and assign penalties when unfair advantage is achieved. At least on local level i know that leaving the course is when all 4 wheels are off the road (tarmac or gravel). In most such situations advantage is not achieved, as moving on roads is generally faster than moving on ploughed field or through bushes, but on some occasion it might be faster and then (when sufficient proof is presented) stewards may apply penalty. Also, rally is supposed to happen in environment without deliberately rearranging said environment - so hitting a tree is technically illegal, but when no advantage is gained, no penalty is assigned. But when barriers or cones are pushed away and advantage is achieved, then stewards may assign penalty. As possible variations are endless, quality of proofs varies, then panel of stewards is necessary to weigh each situation. Otherwise clearly defined list of penalties could be sufficient.

[Rallyper]

If these barriers were made of solid concrete Ogier would have been stuck on the place with broken front right wheel. So penalty was fully ok. Understand the forum is agreed on the penalty. (Didn´t read whole thread at the end)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

We've seen loads of driver's nudging and even fully hitting straw bail chicanes over the years and no penalties have been applied.

Why cant Ogier just say he mis-judged his speed and hit the barriers axcidentally ?

[AnttiL]

We've seen loads of driver's nudging and even fully hitting straw bail chicanes over the years and no penalties have been applied.

Can you pinpoint an example where a considerable advantage was gained (ie. gaining a position or winning a power stage)?

[T16]

We've seen loads of driver's nudging and even fully hitting straw bail chicanes over the years and no penalties have been applied.

Why cant Ogier just say he mis-judged his speed and hit the barriers axcidentally ?

Don’t think anyone will believe him.

We may find out though, as M-Sport are going to appeal his penalty.

[RICARDO75]

This could only be a joke

[AnttiL]

This could only be a joke

Neuville could have driven that chicane at 10 km/h making sure he touches nothing.
He could have plowed through and been given a 30 sec penalty
He could have been given the same 10 sec penalty as Ogier

None of that would have changed the end result of the rally (this was not on the power stage)

[cali]

This could only be a jokeFirst pass

[RICARDO75]

It doesn't matter. If a driver is penalised for a reason, and everyone else who did the same, must be equal for all, regardless of whether it makes a difference or not.

[EstWRC]

something for Anttik https://twitter.com/SebOgier/status/972944034053410816

[AnttiL]

It doesn't matter. If a driver is penalised for a reason, and everyone else who did the same, must be equal for all, regardless of whether it makes a difference or not.

You would be happier if Neuville was 9:13.0 from the lead instead of 9:03.0 and 1:31.7 ahead of Tidemand instead of 1:21.7?

Like I said, this is why we have human stewards.

[RICARDO75]

You would be happier if Neuville was 9:13.0 from the lead instead of 9:03.0 and 1:31.7 ahead of Tidemand instead of 1:21.7?

Like I said, this is why we have human stewards.

This type of penalty does not make me happy and I don't have favourite drivers. I just like things to be fair. And those barriers should have water within.

[AnttiL]

Well, if the stewards had acted quick and given Neuville a penalty before the power stage started, I guess Ogier would have taken it easier. So in that way it was not fair.

Regarding that chicane and how it should be built, I don't think it should have been there at all. It was not even necessary for the stage average speed being too high.

[latek]

Loeb also moved the barrier(only on the exit though) on the power stage and didn't get penalty and scored one point.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Thats what I mean... driver's take every cut and advantage they can, those crappy barriers were asking to be clipped.

[kubiczech]

Regarding that chicane and how it should be built, I don't think it should have been there at all. It was not even necessary for the stage average speed being too high.

Theese chicanes are used to slow cars down on the entry to villages or cities, due to improve safety of spectators or citizens just accidentaly passing by. If there was not the chicane, cars would be entering next right corner about 40kph faster, (i guess) and there was a lot of spectators on the outside on the finish straight.

[AnttiL]

Theese chicanes are used to slow cars down on the entry to villages or cities, due to improve safety of spectators or citizens just accidentaly passing by. If there was not the chicane, cars would be entering next right corner about 40kph faster, (i guess) and there was a lot of spectators on the outside on the finish straight.

They could have just put the finish a bit earlier, where tarmac started?

EDIT: Maybe the chicane was indeed to allow a big spectator area in the outside of the last corner...otherwise they wouldn't have had space for a big spectator area.

[Luis Pacheco]

I still do not understand why they insist on this kind of "special".

[Rallyper]

In Ogiers case it was WDC points to fight for. And Ogier gained many tenths of a second doing what he did. So justice were conducted. No fiver for him. That´s fair.

And hey, hai bails won´t be hit hard without severe damage on car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

if the stewards had acted quick and given Neuville a penalty before the power stage started, I guess Ogier would have taken it easier. So in that way it was not fair.


This.

[denkimi]

They could use tractors, like in finland last year. Or metal shipping containers.

When chicanes are heavy and dangerous, people complain, when they are light and safe, other people complain.
It's pretty simple, you're not supposed to hit anything or leave the route. If you do, they can give you a penalty. Its up to the clerk of the course to decide.

[AnttiL]

They could use tractors, like in finland last year.

2016 actually. After complaints it was removed for 2017.

[Mirek]

As I wrote yesterday. The solution is very simple and can be done same way as in our championship. The chicane is of standard proportions given by the rules before the season, it is painted on the ground before the recce, than built on the same ground plan and a steward with an arbitral function is assigned to it. For damaging/braking the chicane there are fixed penalties given by the rules prior the season. If You only move one element of the chicane from its ground plan You get 5 seconds penalty (it must be completely outside of the ground plan), if more You get higher penalty up to 30 seconds if You simpy go straight through.

This has been working here for years. It's clear and fair for everyone.

[mknight]

Well, if the stewards had acted quick and given Neuville a penalty before the power stage started, I guess Ogier would have taken it easier. So in that way it was not fair.


Have you read the decision?



... Competitor, before the running of the stage, was seeking clarification with the Clerk of the Course regarding consqeuences of "nudging the first part out of the way".
The reply given by the Clerk of the Course to the team of all the manufacturers was that any deviation.... will be referred to the stewards for further investigation.


So before PS (and therefore likely after first run and seeing what Neuville did). Ogier asked and was told that it was not ok.
... and then pushed it out (maybe not on purpose but that doesn't matter).

Note how all other cars avoided it prbly also because they got the same info.

Therefore I am 100% fine with the penalty.

[RaunoK]

Jesus, guys, take a moment and read the stewards decision report.

"Competitor, before the running of the stage, was seeking clarification with the Clerk of the Course regarding the consequences of "nudging the first part out of the way". The reply given [...] was that any deviation, "specifically not going around the elements of the chicane [...] will be referred to the stewards for further investigation"."

If this isn't clear proof of intent to win time with that trick, I don't know what is. And he was warned that it will be referred to judges, yet he still did it. How can you justify his action? I haven't seen Neuville's run through that chicane on the previous stage, but unless he also deliberately and as clearly cut the chicane to gain time (for which he had no reason to, as there was no one around him and it wasn't power stage), I don't really see a problem here.

// mknight already pointed the same out while I was typing this post, sorry for doubling. But damn, AnttiL is a proper hypocrite.. :)

[RICARDO75]

Thats what I mean... driver's take every cut and advantage they can, those crappy barriers were asking to be clipped.

...and to have those crappy barriers on a Power Stage is just stupid

[AnttiL]

But damn, AnttiL is a proper hypocrite.. :)

???

What's up with this forum?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/134787/ogier-gets-mexico-penalty-msport-appealing

[AL14]

While I agree with Ogier that 10 seconds is too much since we can't know that he did it on purpose and of course he didn't gain 10 seconds cutting the chicane, I think it's fair that a penalty is applied considering that there are bonus points in the power stage that can be valuable for the championship.

On a side note I think we should have a standard for artificial chicanes. They shuold be built in the same way in every rally and we should have rules for drivers who cut in some way (in those chicanes).
But most important they should be limited as much as possible and the most of the time just for safety reasons...
I think that chicane in the PS was pretty useless...

[mknight]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/134787/ogier-gets-mexico-penalty-msport-appealing


Ogier:
""We are working on this to explain ourselves because it was not deliberate at all," he said."

That's impossible to prove. The fact that they moved it on the other hand is impossible to deny.


Also think it's very unlikely they will give him penalty of 0.8s or something like that based on some detailed video analysis. If anything happens they'd change it to 5s. Which will give him 1 PS point.

[greencroft]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/134787/ogier-gets-mexico-penalty-msport-appealing

No surprise they are appealing this decision given the points at stake that depend on it in what is shaping up to be a very close fought championship. Personally, I think they are going to struggle to get it overturned despite what their data says about the time gain as the time gain from the action is not what is at issue as far as the rules go.

Here in the UK we don't have such problems with chicanes - either they are solid and you respectfully go around them or else they are like these Mexican ones and you just make sure you have a certain BTRDA title winner in front of you. Bingo, no chicane exists by the time you get there!

[EstWRC]

???

What's up with this forum?

im gonna apologize on the behalf of RaunoK because im sure he confused you with Anttik.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'm disappointed this Ogier penalty has also overshadowed Tanak's late PS entry to gain an advantage when he was already a Rally2 runner. No way should this be allowed.

(In fact I dont think Rally2 driver's should be eligible for the extra PS points at all.)

[Indreq]

(In fact I dont think Rally2 driver's should be eligible for the extra PS points at all.)

I am 99% sure that for next rally FIA will change the rules so that this trick no longer works. But if you take away PS points opportunity from Rally2 drivers, then many of them would rather save the car and not start in Rally2 at all, or will retire with several stages to go if there is little chance to get to the points in GC.

[Tarmop]

I'm disappointed this Ogier penalty has also overshadowed Tanak's late PS entry to gain an advantage when he was already a Rally2 runner. No way should this be allowed.

(In fact I dont think Rally2 driver's should be eligible for the extra PS points at all.)

Who opened the precedent? M-Sport and Ogier, also it didn`t end there, Evans stood even for a longer timeperiod, in order to give No. 1 one extra point. Their excuse, with which i agree, was the championship and it isn`t actually forbidden. Tänak and Neuville have the same excuse. You should stop complaining.

[pucky54]

Enjoy!

[steve.mandzij]

They could use tractors, like in finland last year. Or metal shipping containers.

When chicanes are heavy and dangerous, people complain, when they are light and safe, other people complain.
It's pretty simple, you're not supposed to hit anything or leave the route. If you do, they can give you a penalty. Its up to the clerk of the course to decide.Or!

What if they used the barriers how they're supposed to be used and filled them up with sand or water?

[RaunoK]

???

What's up with this forum?

Sorry, mistaken you with AnttiK.

[bluuford]

Guys, remember, this sport is existing only due to spectators followers etc, the show is dedicated to spectators and drivers need to adapt the rules. Ofcourse, rules must be sensible. Without followers there would not be any WRC as we see today.

And this thing that Ogier made in Sweden was really-really bad. And it would be unfair to change it before the end of season. Mexican penalty, however, is well justified and good indication. They are showing that if there is a questionable situation and if team asks if it is OK tho to so and official answer is "no, it is not OK!" then there is a penalty when you still do like this.

I can see that it was a small mistake by team that cost them a lot. Look the decision clearly. They (team) showed photo evidence that it was in different place to original location and organizers showed that, "no", it was exactly like it should have been. Mistake is simple. Someone from the team took the picture when obstacles were in different position due to someone touching them and send it to team. Ogier remembered the new location that was not official and he was in trouble when he discovered that everything was still as it should be.
And I like that this obstacle was not full of water. This is common sense. If you have a wall, you have to go around it. If you make a mistake, you hit the wall and hurt yourself. But if this wall is made of paper, you escape without injury. simple as that.

And reffering to the weather, these were the hottest days in 2018 during Rally Mexico, and I could not find such a high temperatures from my history book before. So, indeed, it was difficult for the cars :)

[steve.mandzij]

I'm disappointed this Ogier penalty has also overshadowed Tanak's late PS entry to gain an advantage when he was already a Rally2 runner. No way should this be allowed.

(In fact I dont think Rally2 driver's should be eligible for the extra PS points at all.)If Ogier were to retire with a mechanical failure I'm sure you'd reconsider your rally2 stance. Also where is your anger at the advantage the Frenchman gained in Sweden?

I disagree that rally2 runners shouldn't be eligible for points because like it was mentioned a little higher up there'd be no point in continuing if it weren't for extra points. Also, it's not like a runner who's not in rally2 will finish below a returning driver in the overall; the only thing that could benefit rally2 most of the time is the PS.

[AnttiL]

Some thoughts on the drivers' performances

I knew Loeb could still do something, but I was still blown away by his pace that could have been enough for a rally win. Also, I was expecting Ogier to be good in these conditions. Also, it was easy to expect Meeke to be fast but prone for errors. One of those spins or his half-roll could have ended worse with less luck.

Evans was disappointing again, although his shakedown pace was promising, especially on the first runs. I'm also disappointed in Suninen's performance, he didn't really get even good stage times down (only 4th in Alfaro where Meeke rolled and many were in tyre save mode). Same goes for Lappi. Also disappointing for the Toyotas to overheat again, although Neuville's fuel pressure problem on a super special was reminiscent of last year's failures.

Mikkelsen was also a bit disappointing, but he was lucky to survive his small off. Sordo did also a good rally, although I knew he could do well in this rally especially with that starting position.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Mexican penalty, however, is well justified and good indication. They are showing that if there is a questionable situation and if team asks if it is OK tho to so and official answer is "no, it is not OK!" then there is a penalty when you still do like this.


Extremely well summarised by Bluuford

[dimviii]

I disagree that rally2 runners shouldn't be eligible for points because like it was mentioned a little higher up there'd be no point in continuing if it weren't for extra points. Also, it's not like a runner who's not in rally2 will finish below a returning driver in the overall; the only thing that could benefit rally2 most of the time is the PS.

about rally 2 runners at power stage,we have to mention that due to missed stages,they have much more tyres at good condition to attack.
example ....if top 3 crews have small gaps at day 2 and 3,they cant cruise,but push till the last stage.Have almost all of their tyres used hard.A rally 2 crew can cruise 2 days,and have almost new tyres at power stage.

[dimviii]

Enjoy!

wow,they are installed, at totally different place among these drivers.
are the photos from same stage run,or from 1st and 2nd pass?

[dimviii]

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_03_2018/post-93-0-11244300-1520845469.jpg
http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_03_2018/post-93-0-48260800-1520845481.jpg
http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_03_2018/post-93-0-26263400-1520845500.jpg
http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_03_2018/post-93-0-24047600-1520845521.jpg

[mknight]

Some thoughts on the drivers' performances

I knew Loeb could still do something, but I was still blown away by his pace that could have been enough for a rally win. Also, I was expecting Ogier to be good in these conditions. Also, it was easy to expect Meeke to be fast but prone for errors. One of those spins or his half-roll could have ended worse with less luck.

Evans was disappointing again, although his shakedown pace was promising, especially on the first runs. I'm also disappointed in Suninen's performance, he didn't really get even good stage times down (only 4th in Alfaro where Meeke rolled and many were in tyre save mode). Same goes for Lappi. Also disappointing for the Toyotas to overheat again, although Neuville's fuel pressure problem on a super special was reminiscent of last year's failures.

Mikkelsen was also a bit disappointing, but he was lucky to survive his small off. Sordo did also a good rally, although I knew he could do well in this rally especially with that starting position.

For once I can't agree with you on multiple points.

Loeb was surprising yes and hats off to him, but I won't say he had rally winning performance. Saturday morning he was clearly slower than Ogier and about same speed as Meeke. And it was at this point under pressure that he got puncture. Friday he was behind Sordo with same starting position.

This was first time since Portugal last year that Ogier actually had dominating rally winning performance on gravel. (and in Portugal Tanak seemed as fast or faster).
Meeke imo showed again what he lacks for WDC, consistency under pressure. 3 or 4? spins, at least 3 times very wide (2 times on the Saturday SS with his carpark) and completely unnecessary off on sunday causing him to also loose PS chances.

Sordo typical good rally for him, fast and all but not enough to charge for win.

Evans actually had quite good performance over the few stages he ran. Way too few for any judgment though.

Sunninen and Lappi were pretty much invisible whole rally yes. Mikkelsen was very disappointing, only performance on "expected" level was Friday afternoon. Don't agree on the severity of the off though, it was one wide corner with some small panel dmg. Discounting Meeke both Neuville and Ogier had at least 2 such moments.

Hard to judge Toyota's much with the issues, but would say Latvala was again consistently behind Tanak in speed.

[mknight]

And this thing that Ogier made in Sweden was really-really bad. And it would be unfair to change it before the end of season.

Can't agree with that. If something is broken then fix it before it get's out of control.

In either case now 3 of the 4 teams misused this. So even more reason to stop it.

[N.O.T]

mexicans... whats their use apart from selling drugs to the US ?

whats the point of having that chicane there is you do not fill the barriers with sand or water or something that will at least show some retention ?

and ogiers penalty is justified... 10 seconds is of course not the amount of time ogier gained but you penalise the infringement, you do not try and do justice.

[dimviii]

For once I can't agree with you on multiple points.

Loeb was surprising yes and hats off to him, but I won't say he had rally winning performance. Saturday morning he was clearly slower than Ogier and about same speed as Meeke. And it was at this point under pressure that he got puncture. Friday he was behind Sordo with same starting position.

This was first time since Portugal last year that Ogier actually had dominating rally winning performance on gravel. (and in Portugal Tanak seemed as fast or faster).
Meeke imo showed again what he lacks for WDC, consistency under pressure. 3 or 4? spins, at least 3 times very wide (2 times on the Saturday SS with his carpark) and completely unnecessary off on sunday causing him to also loose PS chances.

Sordo typical good rally for him, fast and all but not enough to charge for win.

Evans actually had quite good performance over the few stages he ran. Way too few for any judgment though.

Sunninen and Lappi were pretty much invisible whole rally yes. Mikkelsen was very disappointing, only performance on "expected" level was Friday afternoon. Don't agree on the severity of the off though, it was one wide corner with some small panel dmg. Discounting Meeke both Neuville and Ogier had at least 2 such moments.

Hard to judge Toyota's much with the issues, but would say Latvala was again consistently behind Tanak in speed.

agree with all you wrote,except Loeb not winning pace.You cant max the output of these cars at your first rally at just first 6-7 stageswhile you have to drive at gravel 5 years.
Except that we saw how he upped his pace from shakedown to the first stages.
Also his puncture was with a stone at racing line,as he said(same as Sordo)

[denkimi]

While I agree with Ogier that 10 seconds is too much since we can't know that he did it on purpose and of course he didn't gain 10 seconds cutting the chicane, I think it's fair that a penalty is applied considering that there are bonus points in the power stage that can be valuable for the championship.

Penalty's are not supposed to correlate with time gained. They are intended to punish for wrongdoing. A 0,5 seconds false start gives you also 10 seconds penalty.

[dimviii]

mexicans... whats their use apart from selling drugs to the US ?

whats the point of having that chicane there is you do not fill the barriers with sand or water or something that will at least show some retention ?

and ogiers penalty is justified... 10 seconds is of course not the amount of time ogier gained but you penalise the infringement, you do not try and do justice.

while i agree with the penalty,i have a feeling that this penalty had to do with more than this case on moving the obstacles..
also the organisers while they have inform after 1st pass all drivers,they still have at 2nd pass empty without water.

[AL14]

Penalty's are not supposed to correlate with time gained. They are intended to punish for wrongdoing. A 0,5 seconds false start gives you also 10 seconds penalty.

Fair enough. Your reasoning is actually right. I was thinking that cutting for mistake and on purpose could have a different treatment but that would imply a total mess whenever someone do something wrong.

[AL14]

mexicans... whats their use apart from selling drugs to the US ?

whats the point of having that chicane there is you do not fill the barriers with sand or water or something that will at least show some retention ?

and ogiers penalty is justified... 10 seconds is of course not the amount of time ogier gained but you penalise the infringement, you do not try and do justice.

I'm curious: is there a nationality in the world that is not filled of idiots and/or retarded and/or autistic people in your view?

[Franky]

I'm curious: is there a nationality in the world that is not filled of idiots and/or retarded and/or autistic people in your view?

The Republic of N.O.T, population: 1?

[steve.mandzij]

mexicans... whats their use apart from selling drugs to the US ?

whats the point of having that chicane there is you do not fill the barriers with sand or water or something that will at least show some retention ?

and ogiers penalty is justified... 10 seconds is of course not the amount of time ogier gained but you penalise the infringement, you do not try and do justice.Like I said earlier; if the chicanes had had sand or water or something in them to make them sturdy but not dangerous this wouldn't have been so big of an issue. Maybe even concrete blocks or tyre walls could have been better.

[OHL]

Like I said earlier; if the chicanes had had sand or water or something in them to make them sturdy but not dangerous this wouldn't have been so big of an issue. Maybe even concrete blocks or tyre walls could have been better.

Chicanes are always a tricky thing to manage. If you fill them with sand or water in order to try and keep them in place, and then a competitor hits them knocking them out of place, it is impossible to quickly get them back in place. Normally there should be clear penalties listed for hitting chicane elements. Finland did this last year and all of the competitors knew what the penalty was for ignoring an element of the chicane. Ogier asked before stage start what the penalty was for hitting it and it is normal for a driver/team to try and find every advantage and then take it if they think the reward is greater than the penalty. It's also why stewards are present on every event. It's impossible to write a set of rules that covers every possible scenario so when things happen that fall outside a defined area in the rules, then a person must step in and make a ruling on the legality and or punishment for the incident. Every single infraction is different with different outcomes, context, etc. and it requires experienced, knowledgeable people to interpret the situation and make a ruling. Sometimes they get it wrong and there is an appeals process. This is how it should be IMO. I think the organizers could have potentially avoided this situation if they made it more clear by listing penalties for displacing a chicane element but that is water under the bridge now and hindsight is always 20/20.

[er88]

Asked to describe his rally, Meeke told Autosport: "It's been shite. S.H.I.T.E. Too many errors from me this weekend.

"I had the car, I had the road position and the pace to win and I wasn't able to convert it.

"I'm frustrated as hell, but if I'm frustrated as hell with third place that's not a bad sign. I've got no excuses here."

Loeb; Assessing his performance, Loeb said his frontrunning pace had been a "nice surprise".

"I obviously had no certainty about my level, bearing in mind that everyone is fighting over tenths of a second, and that it doesn't take much to find yourself left behind a little bit," said Loeb, who will also contest next month's Tour of Corsica for Citroen.

"So it was a nice surprise to be on the pace! I'm just a bit frustrated that I wasn't able to test myself properly against the others right to the end because of the puncture.

"In any case, it was a very good weekend and that was the initial aim of this comeback.

"I hope I can now go on to get a good result in Corsica, even though I'll still have quite a few things to refamiliarise myself with."



https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/134796/meeke-has-no-excuses-for-mexico-performance

[A FONDO]

Can't believe you have written so much about that. :eek: Chicanes must be respected and 10 seconds is pretty fair penalty. That he loses points is a consequence. Harsh, but next time he (and others) will know it should be avoided.

[N.O.T]

I'm curious: is there a nationality in the world that is not filled of idiots and/or retarded and/or autistic people in your view?

very good question !!! these are the kind of questions i like...

and to answer that.... No, not really. Italians would be nice, if you did not talk too much, weren't that annoying in public, were actually useful to have as an ally in a war, your women shaved more often and you did not dub your movies in italian ( Nothing more anticlimatic and hilarious than Darth vader sounding like supermario).

[AL14]

very good question !!! these are the kind of questions i like...

and to answer that.... No, not really. Italians would be nice, if you did not talk too much, weren't that annoying in public, were actually useful to have as an ally in a war, your women shaved more often and you did not dub your movies in italian ( Nothing more anticlimatic and hilarious than Darth vader sounding like supermario).

haha we can be worse than that sometimes :D but I can agree except for the women, I fear you just made some bad choice with italian women, or maybe they were too old but I respect every taste. :D

[Alex009]

Can't believe you have written so much about that. :eek: Chicanes must be respected and 10 seconds is pretty fair penalty. That he loses points is a consequence. Harsh, but next time he (and others) will know it should be avoided.

Neuville hit chicane on first pass.
Latvala, Loeb, Sordo and Ogier hit chicane on power stage. No video from Tanak or Neville.
Only Ogier got 10 sec penalty.

Its fair?

[N.O.T]

Its fair?

Yes kid, it is.

[A FONDO]

Neuville hit chicane on first pass.
Latvala, Loeb, Sordo and Ogier hit chicane on power stage. No video from Tanak or Neville.
Only Ogier got 10 sec penalty.

Its fair?

Very few things are completely fair in life. I do not want to write and read about that penalty anymore.

[Simmi]

I wonder whether Ogier's big mistake was trying to gain clarification on the issue from the stewards.

It's a good lesson in life. You can't plead ignorance about something if you've already asked whether you're allowed to do it.

[denkimi]

has anyone footage of ogier cutting the chicane? I have seen images of neuville, but can't seem to find any from ogier.

[MartijnS]

https://www.facebook.com/laurent62500/videos/1564741243646958/?permPage=1&ifg=1

https://www.facebook.com/laurent62500/videos/1564745283646554/?permPage=1&ifg=1

[pucky54]

wow,they are installed, at totally different place among these drivers.
are the photos from same stage run,or from 1st and 2nd pass?

first pass of Neuville and second pass of Ogier

[pucky54]

has anyone footage of ogier cutting the chicane? I have seen images of neuville, but can't seem to find any from ogier.

http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?39744-Rally-Mexico-2018&p=1176153&viewfull=1#post1176153

[stefanvv]

has anyone footage of ogier cutting the chicane? I have seen images of neuville, but can't seem to find any from ogier.

Here I crafted some:
1568
1569

I rest my case:
1570

[N.O.T]

Here I crafted some:
1568
1569

I rest my case:
1570

let me just bring the electron microscope out of the garage...

[AL14]

http://i.imgur.com/zee8127.png?fb

[stefanvv]

That was a fun. I'm too lazy to upload the images somewhere and the forum show them in more descent size. If someone is interested PM me the e-mail address to send them.

EDIT: ups, I think I deleted them already from my hard drive not to clutter it.

[stefanvv]

http://i.imgur.com/zee8127.png?fb

On the other hand, this might be some of the stewards on the Rally.

[N.O.T]

I think I deleted them already from my hard drive not to clutter it.

i remember having a 20 mb hard drive as well... it was fun.

[stefanvv]

i remember having a 20 mb hard drive as well... it was fun.

I have several TB in total, but too many bitcoins there man.

[Mk2 RS2000]

mexicans... whats their use apart from selling drugs to the US ?

whats the point of having that chicane there is you do not fill the barriers with sand or water or something that will at least show some retention ?
.

They were the building blocks for "Trumps Wall" and just about as useful

[Fast Eddie WRC]

about rally 2 runners at power stage,we have to mention that due to missed stages,they have much more tyres at good condition to attack.
example ....if top 3 crews have small gaps at day 2 and 3,they cant cruise,but push till the last stage.Have almost all of their tyres used hard.A rally 2 crew can cruise 2 days,and have almost new tyres at power stage.

Good point.

Idea: If Rally2 driver's are to get extra points they should compete against each other for a seperate award on the PS, not take main PS points off those doing the full rally...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If Ogier were to retire with a mechanical failure I'm sure you'd reconsider your rally2 stance. Also where is your anger at the advantage the Frenchman gained in Sweden?

I disagree that rally2 runners shouldn't be eligible for points because like it was mentioned a little higher up there'd be no point in continuing if it weren't for extra points. Also, it's not like a runner who's not in rally2 will finish below a returning driver in the overall; the only thing that could benefit rally2 most of the time is the PS.

Ogier did the full rally in Sweden, Tanak did not in Mexico.

Ogier was chronically disadvantaged by road clearing and Historics in Sweden. Tanak' s car broke in Mexico.

If Ogier was under Rally2 I would still think the same about the PS.

[Tarmop]

You are being ridiculous. Just face it, it`s allowed and M-sport started it, took it even further after the PS with Evans. Tänak did cleaning aswell and was as also disappointed at the time (stage end comment) but now that teams think it is ok and in the end they all want to win and this is what makes competition great. If someone would give up sooner rather than later, we would be having another dull period. It`s something for the FIA to think about, not for fans to look through suitable colored glasses, be it M-Sport/Ogier, Hyundai/Neuville or Toyota/Tänak.

[Rallyper]

You are being ridiculous. Just face it, it`s allowed and M-sport started it, took it even further after the PS with Evans. Tänak did cleaning aswell and was as also disappointed at the time (stage end comment) but now that teams think it is ok and in the end they all want to win and this is what makes competition great. If someone would give up sooner rather than later, we would be having another dull period. It`s something for the FIA to think about, not for fans to look through suitable colored glasses, be it M-Sport/Ogier, Hyundai/Neuville or Toyota/Tänak.

Yes too much detailes discussed. Getting ridicolous eventually. It´s like it is. And up to FIA to change if they like to.

[dimviii]

where is AnttiK when you need him

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_03_2018/post-1072-0-34882500-1520928243.jpg

[pantealex]

I just want to say that Ogier was best driver in Mexico.
Some others were also very good but Ogier was best this time.

[dimviii]

dont remember to have discuss this one.At French forum they said that he had only 6km to stage end,but havent checked it.


Sébastien Loeb admits he made a mistake in stopping to change a puncture when on course for a storybook victory at last weekend’s Rally Guanajuato Mexico.

The 44-year-old Frenchman, driving his first WRC event for more than three years, was leading Dani Sordo when he hit a stone in Saturday afternoon’s second pass of the 30.97km Guanajuatito speed test.
The impact punctured the front left tyre on Loeb’s Citroën C3. He and co-driver Daniel Elena replaced the wheel and dropped almost 2min 30sec, plunging to fifth.
Sordo also punctured in the same stage but drove to the finish. He conceded just 30sec and went on to finish second.
Loeb acknowledged his lack of recent WRC competition meant he underestimated the strength of Michelin’s current tyres.
Asked if he made an error in stopping, he told wrc.com: “Yes. As old as I am, I take some experience. It was a bit stupid, but I think we didn’t speak enough before about that and I took a bad decision.
“Now we have an alarm (in the car) for punctures. I saw the alarm and like in Dakar, alarm, puncture, we stop, we change. But it was a bad decision, I could have lost much less.”

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/march-2018/loeb-tyre/page/5292--12-12-.html

[Franky]

Dimvii, you've got wrong Antti.

[N.O.T]

dont remember to have discuss this one.At French forum they said that he had only 6km to stage end,but havent checked it.


Sébastien Loeb admits he made a mistake in stopping to change a puncture when on course for a storybook victory at last weekend’s Rally Guanajuato Mexico.

The 44-year-old Frenchman, driving his first WRC event for more than three years, was leading Dani Sordo when he hit a stone in Saturday afternoon’s second pass of the 30.97km Guanajuatito speed test.
The impact punctured the front left tyre on Loeb’s Citroën C3. He and co-driver Daniel Elena replaced the wheel and dropped almost 2min 30sec, plunging to fifth.
Sordo also punctured in the same stage but drove to the finish. He conceded just 30sec and went on to finish second.
Loeb acknowledged his lack of recent WRC competition meant he underestimated the strength of Michelin’s current tyres.
Asked if he made an error in stopping, he told wrc.com: “Yes. As old as I am, I take some experience. It was a bit stupid, but I think we didn’t speak enough before about that and I took a bad decision.
“Now we have an alarm (in the car) for punctures. I saw the alarm and like in Dakar, alarm, puncture, we stop, we change. But it was a bad decision, I could have lost much less.”

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/march-2018/loeb-tyre/page/5292--12-12-.html

Another elena mistake....

[dimviii]

redbull day 1
https://www.redbull.tv/video/AP-1TVBV7MA51W11/recap-mexico-day-1?playlist=AP-1TW958CND1W11:live_programs

day 2
https://www.redbull.tv/video/AP-1TVBV6QB91W11/recap-mexico-day-2?playlist=AP-1TW958CND1W11:live_programs

day 3
https://www.redbull.tv/video/AP-1TVBV76EW1W11/recap-mexico-day-3?playlist=AP-1TW958CND1W11:live_programs

[dimviii]

Another elena mistake....

its not only Elenas mistake,Seb has his share too.

[dimviii]

M-Sport is confident Elfyn Evans's co-driver Dan Barritt will be fit in time for the next World Rally Championship round in Corsica after being injured in their Mexico crash.
Barritt was diagnosed with mild concussion and advised not to continue after a sixth-gear roll on the rally's fourth stage last Friday.
He is scheduled to participate in M-Sport's pre-Tour of Corsica test from next Monday, and Autosport understands he is expected to to recover in time for the rally itself - which team principal Malcolm Wilson said was the main focus.
"It goes without saying that the priority is the rally - that's where we need Dan fit," said Wilson.
"I'm not so worried about the test. Let's see how he feels next week."
Evans admitted the accident was one of the biggest of his career.
"The cause of the crash was probably a bit of over-confidence in making the notes over the bumps," Evans told Autosport.
"I should have taken some of the speed off, if we'd come down a gear we'd probably have got away with it, but we flew so far and landed on the next jump.
"These cars deal with things so well now - we'd had a really bad dip on the first stage, I dropped two gears and it felt like nothing."
Evans was running third at the time of the crash. He initially continued before withdrawing at the next service when Barritt's condition was assessed.
"It's a real shame, we were settling in well and the times were there," Evans added.
"I was a little bit disorientated in the crash. We rolled so quickly, I jumped out of the car and ran to slow down the next car.
"When the dust settled I saw the wheels were all still on the car and they were pointing in the right direction - so we jumped in and went.
"If I'd pushed the starter straight away, we might not even have lost 20 seconds."

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/134807/evans-codriver-set-to-be-fit-for-corsica

[N.O.T]

its not only Elenas mistake,Seb has his share too.

disatnces are elenas job.

[Tarmop]

Citroens have a large tripmeter in front of the driver, so not really difficult.

[Rally Power]

I just want to say that Ogier was best driver in Mexico.
Some others were also very good but Ogier was best this time.

Yep, but the real bombshell of this Mexico Rally was Loeb top form. I wasn’t able to follow the rally but after seeing the highlights and look at SS’s times it’s hard not to beg for a full time return of the big champ. It’d be great for Citroen and the WRC!

Btw, it was funny to hear Ogier saying, I believe after leg 1, that he was only worried with Meeke; does anyone doubt his main goal was to pass Loeb and get an undisputed win in order to show he’s the new king? It’ll be nice to follow the second round…maybe the old king will rule again!

[racerx1979]

To me, Ogier was taking a lot more risks in Mexico. I think Loeb had Ogier a little pumped up.

To be honest, it should not even be an issue considering Loebs time away from WRC and his age, but I guess he is that good. Would be nice to see Loeb be ahead of Ogier in Corsica or Spain. I'm not sure if Loeb would have held off Ogier in Mexico, but based on his interviews he said he was not pushing at all. Just driving..

Like Tanak said, "it's like we have not improved at all while he was away" lol.

[sollitt]

... I fear you just made some bad choice with italian women ....Surely you're not suggesting that NOT has actually had an encounter with a real woman?

[Rally Hokkaido]

Surely you're not suggesting that NOT has actually had an encounter with a real woman?

Define 'real'....lol

[dimviii]

excellent photos by Jakub

https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2018/photos/rally_guanajuato_corona_mexico_2018/jpo_0000222-loeb-test.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2018/photos/rally_guanajuato_corona_mexico_2018/jpo_0000889-loeb-test.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2018/photos/rally_guanajuato_corona_mexico_2018/jpo_0000625-suninen-test.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2018/photos/rally_guanajuato_corona_mexico_2018/jpo_0000398-ogier-test.jpg

[dimviii]

https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2018/photos/rally_guanajuato_corona_mexico_2018/jpo_0000356-sordo-test.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2018/photos/rally_guanajuato_corona_mexico_2018/jpo_0000687-tanak-test.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2018/photos/rally_guanajuato_corona_mexico_2018/jpo_0000409-meeke-test.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2018/photos/rally_guanajuato_corona_mexico_2018/jpo_0000876--latvala-test.jpg
https://www.ewrc.cz/images/2018/photos/rally_guanajuato_corona_mexico_2018/jpo_0000408-loeb.jpg

more
https://www.ewrc.cz/foto/44257-rally-guanajuato-mexico-2018/401/

[danon]

The Master - ONBOARD SS17 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQkzFOSv8yc

[Valtter]

It was very interesting rally. What Loeb made was hugely impressive considering his age and absence from world rallying. However, I have to disagree with some comments claiming that Loeb had rally winning pace. It was near to rally winning pace from his starting position. With all things equal Loeb wouldn't have stand chance against Ogier. In Mexico the difference being 2nd or 10th on the road is over 1 minute on day one. During the second day we could talk about 20-30 seconds difference from road position between Ogier and Loeb. When road position deficit is accounted it's evident that Ogier was about 1 minute faster than Loeb at the point when Loeb's tyre gave up.

It's evident that Loeb's appearance made Ogier to put everything on the line.

There is actually interview in wrc.com where Ogier notes that his chances were really low going for rally as he was second on the road and drivers last in the order had 1 second per kilometer advantage.

It's curious that some forumers have been sailing in the forum 15 years but they cannot infer contributions what road positions have.

Next rally in Corsica will be one to watch.

During his career Loeb was absolute killer on asphalt and Citroen is probably one step ahead of others on tarmac (based on last year's performances by Mikkelsen and Meeke). I would say that Loeb will be contender for rally win in his remaining rallies (especially in Spain if they start on gravel and road position is in play).

[Tarmop]

We`ll never know that, but i wouldn`t be so sure he didn`t have anything extra. Started the day with a win, was 4. a 5. (ok, admitted that he would`ve liked to be faster) and then had a flat with not much point to push anymore, just secure points.

[stefanvv]

Well it's no secret Loeb has always been biggest Ogier challenger. And looks like he'll always be. Perhaps the opposite is also true.

[Valtter]

We`ll never know that, but i wouldn`t be so sure he didn`t have anything extra. Started the day with a win, was 4. a 5. (ok, admitted that he would`ve liked to be faster) and then had a flat with not much point to push anymore, just secure points.

Of course he was pushing as hard as he could. That's just plain stupid to suggest that someone would sandbag in a fight for rally win. No championship at stake. If anyone had good reason to push that was Loeb.

[GigiGalliNo1]

My third Rally Mexico and love it! Now have to read back on this thread and post some images. If you haven’t been make sure you get out there to Leon one next! Corse is next.

[N.O.T]

Corse is next.

Had to double check to make sure... after all the stupidity we heard from you regarding the WRC

[AL14]

My third Rally Mexico and love it! Now have to read back on this thread and post some images. If you haven’t been make sure you get out there to Leon one next! Corse is next.

Any news from service park?

[stefanvv]

Any news from service park?

wait several months man.

[er88]

wait several months man.Why would anyone need to wait several months, when GigiGalliNo1 is here to tell us all the news and gossip?

[stefanvv]

Why would anyone need to wait several months, when GigiGalliNo1 is here to tell us all the news and gossip?

until silly season begins:confused: I can tell You a secret right now, even not being there, but that will make the championship boring....

[N.O.T]

Why would anyone need to wait several months, when GigiGalliNo1 is here to tell us all the news and gossip?

are you Scottish or english ?

[er88]

until silly season begins:confused: I can tell You a secret right now, even not being there, but that will make the championship boring....But GigiGalliNo1 is renowned on here for his inside info..., silly season is every season of the year for him. So surely he hasn't come back empty handed with nothing to tell us....

Maybe you could stand in for him with your secret? You'll have to go some to out-do some of GigiGalliNo1's previous scoops though ;)

[stefanvv]

But GigiGalliNo1 is renowned on here for his inside info..., silly season is every season of the year for him. So surely he hasn't come back empty handed with nothing to tell us....

Maybe you could stand in for him with your secret? You'll have to go some to out-do some of GigiGalliNo1's previous scoops though ;)

Nah, I'll leave all the honor to him. It's not even in the category news & rumors though.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You are being ridiculous. Just face it, it`s allowed and M-sport started it, took it even further after the PS with Evans. Tänak did cleaning aswell and was as also disappointed at the time (stage end comment) but now that teams think it is ok and in the end they all want to win and this is what makes competition great. If someone would give up sooner rather than later, we would be having another dull period. It`s something for the FIA to think about, not for fans to look through suitable colored glasses, be it M-Sport/Ogier, Hyundai/Neuville or Toyota/Tänak.

Ogier may have started it but he had good reason as Sweden was an exceptional rally. But the others now doing it on a normal rally (and even worse from Rally 2), THAT is ridiculous.

[N.O.T]

Ogier may have started it but he had good reason as Sweden was an exceptional rally. But the others now doing it on a normal rally

LOL...

come in here kids the fun never stops with this one...

[tommeke_B]

Ogier may have started it but he had good reason as Sweden was an exceptional rally. But the others now doing it on a normal rally (and even worse from Rally 2), THAT is ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous. The fact that it's possible by rules is ridiculous. Maybe all time penalties for being late/early at TC's should be added to the stage-time before or after that TC, in stead of just adding it to the overall time.

[Hartusvuori]

It's not ridiculous. The fact that it's possible by rules is ridiculous. Maybe all time penalties for being late/early at TC's should be added to the stage-time before or after that TC, in stead of just adding it to the overall time.

Is there any explanation, why is that not a practice now or have always been? Simple solution for this.

[AnttiL]

Is there any explanation, why is that not a practice now or have always been? Simple solution for this.

No one has ever thought it would be a problem? Has this happened in the past before?

[Tarmop]

I remember reading, that Hirvonen did it some years back.

[N.O.T]

what happened is no different than when drivers stopped before the stage end to have a better position for the next day or when burns faked a flat tyre and delayed to start the stage in australia....

we can cry like little sick dogs depending on which driver we support or we can accept it...

we can also follow the auti... (oooops FBI warning)... i mean the british method and stir up the subject every now and then to satisfy our mental disabilities...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This whole issue could have started and ended in Sweden.

If the other Teams had accepted that Ogier/M-Sport's action was a one-off due to their desperation to get some points on a rally where they were basically denied through no fault of their own.

The FIA even asked everyone not to behave like this on the Mexico PS.

But no, Hyundai and Toyota had to act like children in Mexico saying, well if they did it we're going to do it. Even though the rally and circumstances were totally different.

[cali]

This whole issue could have started and ended in Sweden.

If the other Teams had accepted that Ogier/M-Sport's action was a one-off due to their desperation to get some points on a rally where they were basically denied through no fault of their own.

The FIA even asked everyone not to behave like this on the Mexico PS.

But no, Hyundai and Toyota had to act like children in Mexico saying, well if they did it we're going to do it. Even though the rally and circumstances were totally different.

So by your statement it is OK that when Ogier who happens to be the lead driver of the team you support is in a desperation to get points, but when competition is trying to exploit this loophole in a desperation for more points they act like children. Really?? I'm starting to believe N.O.T.'s british autism jokes more and more. What a load of BS

[Simmi]

This whole issue could have started and ended in Sweden.

If the other Teams had accepted that Ogier/M-Sport's action was a one-off due to their desperation to get some points on a rally where they were basically denied through no fault of their own.

The FIA even asked everyone not to behave like this on the Mexico PS.

But no, Hyundai and Toyota had to act like children in Mexico saying, well if they did it we're going to do it. Even though the rally and circumstances were totally different.

This is just embarrassing Eddie sorry.

Why should M-Sport be able to get away with something that clearly works and others told they can't do it?

The first line of your post is bang on though. The issue should have started in Sweden with the FIA doing their jobs.

Story in MN yesterday said the WRC Promoter put forward a proposal after Sweden but the FIA didn't act on it. They will discuss it at the next WRC Commission meeting in May! I guess there are a few layers of their own red tape to get through - but I reckon that means we'll have this all again in Argentina next month. Maybe even Portugal if the FIA continue to sit on their hands.

Guarantee you if this was F1 it would have been sorted within a week.

[the sniper]

I'm starting to believe N.O.T.'s british autism jokes more and more. What a load of BS

We're not all in this together!

[cali]

We're not all in this together!I know, just teasing :)

[N.O.T]

This whole issue could have started and ended in Sweden.

If the other Teams had accepted that Ogier/M-Sport's action was a one-off due to their desperation to get some points on a rally where they were basically denied through no fault of their own.

The FIA even asked everyone not to behave like this on the Mexico PS.

But no, Hyundai and Toyota had to act like children in Mexico saying, well if they did it we're going to do it. Even though the rally and circumstances were totally different.

I am living a lie kids....

LOL LOL LOL....

are you for real ? how can someone be such a basic life form ?

[stefanvv]

This whole issue could have started and ended in Sweden.

If the other Teams had accepted that Ogier/M-Sport's action was a one-off due to their desperation to get some points on a rally where they were basically denied through no fault of their own.

The FIA even asked everyone not to behave like this on the Mexico PS.

But no, Hyundai and Toyota had to act like children in Mexico saying, well if they did it we're going to do it. Even though the rally and circumstances were totally different.

The whole think didn't start in Sweden. Starting order games has been in rally for quite some years. Even if FIA imposes some rules over the PS, the teams can just change the game - how about the cars have some technical "issues"? If we go on like this, the circus grows bigger and bigger. Let it be like this, it'll be forgotten in few months. I'm quite sure all of them have been aware of this rule "cheating", just might be little pissed about Ogier using it.

EDIT: Besides these games are not in favor of manufacturers, not showing their lead drivers on the "best show" during the rally, Neuville didn't gain anything on this possibly Tanak too, the only losers were Hyundai & Toyota. I think next time orders to follow the starting order will not come from FIA or Germany, but from South Korea and Japan.

[N.O.T]

The whole think didn't start in Sweden. Starting order games has been in rally for quite some years. Even if FIA imposes some rules over the PS, the teams can just change the game - how about the cars have some technical "issues"? If we go on like this, the circus grows bigger and bigger. Let it be like this, it'll be forgotten in few months. I'm quite sure all of them have been aware of this rule "cheating", just might be little pissed about Ogier using it.

https://i.imgur.com/Lx2wNeA.gif

[Mintexmemory]

No one has ever thought it would be a problem? Has this happened in the past before?

Only an issue with the power stage malarky- make the power stage the first and that solves many problems - only those not in contention will have good road positions on gravel

[Mintexmemory]

I am living a lie kids....

LOL LOL LOL....

are you for real ? how can someone be such a basic life form ?

You should know!

[AL14]

This whole issue could have started and ended in Sweden.

If the other Teams had accepted that Ogier/M-Sport's action was a one-off due to their desperation to get some points on a rally where they were basically denied through no fault of their own.

The FIA even asked everyone not to behave like this on the Mexico PS.

But no, Hyundai and Toyota had to act like children in Mexico saying, well if they did it we're going to do it. Even though the rally and circumstances were totally different.

This put GigiGalliNo1 rumors from servic parks in big shadows and I think it even beats Anttik sending registered mail to FIA.
An oneiric experience.

[OHL]

Only an issue with the power stage malarky- make the power stage the first and that solves many problems - only those not in contention will have good road positions on gravel

This isn't an easy problem to fix. Your suggestion would make the whole point of the power stage null & void. The original idea was to bring some excitement to the last day of the rally. Normally the finishing order is sorted out by Saturday night unless something really crazy happens on Sunday. Sunday was pretty dull and number of viewers and spectators declining. Enter the power stage, now teams have a reason to push and it adds extra excitement to an otherwise dull day. If it is moved to Leg 1 of the rally then we're back to "let's-just-get-through-it-so-it-can-be-over" Sunday.

Additionally, points are points and it does't matter what situation you find yourself in, more points are always better than less. So Ogier was frustrated, he lost a lot of time due to running order and his only hope was to mess with the start order on the power stage so he could get some points. A real tear jerker but absolutely no different than winning the rally, or re-entering under rally 2 and doing the same thing on the power stage to get points. One situation is no more or less justified than the other. As long as the rules allow it and the gain outweighs the penalty then people will do it. They may have considered it and held back as nobody wanted to be the first (cause it is unsporting) but now the dam is broken and the only fix is a rule change or it will keep happening.

[stefanvv]

This isn't an easy problem to fix. Your suggestion would make the whole point of the power stage null & void. The original idea was to bring some excitement to the last day of the rally. Normally the finishing order is sorted out by Saturday night unless something really crazy happens on Sunday. Sunday was pretty dull and number of viewers and spectators declining. Enter the power stage, now teams have a reason to push and it adds extra excitement to an otherwise dull day. If it is moved to Leg 1 of the rally then we're back to "let's-just-get-through-it-so-it-can-be-over" Sunday.

Do You consider the other way around possibility? - Drivers from the back of the field already have some points from the PS and might risk attacking a bit more on Saturday afternoon & Sunday? Hmmmm.....