Who is going to steal the drive at Williams?

[Nitrodaze]

Most of us already have the xmas bird in the freezer and are probably thinking of the different ways to bast the thing for the most supple roast come xmas day. Yet Williams has not publicized their choice of who would be slipping into the seat next to Stroll. The list of who is in the frame depends on whose blog you read. As it stands at the moment, there are five names being thrown around by the media; obviously Kubica and Di Resta, but also Kyvat, Werhlein and Serotkin. So who do you think is most likely to land this very last remaining seat in F1 for the 2018 season?

Kubica - there are obvious doubts
Di Resta - There is very clear doubt otherwise there would not be a list in the first place
Kyvat - Very likely as he is the most experienced of the lot in the Hybrid era and is as fast as Ricciado on his day
Werhlein - Age and experience are more of the problem but very capable and can do an Ocon, Verstapenn, Sainz for Williams
Serotkin - I don't see Williams fielding two rookies in 2018, hence l don't see this happening

[AndyL]

Of those, who has the most financial backing? Kvyat I'm guessing. So that would be another point in his favour.
I guess Wehrlein might come with an engine discount from Mercedes.

[gm99]

Serotkin - I don't see Williams fielding two rookies in 2018, hence l don't see this happening

Stroll won't be a rookie in 2018...
But I agree, a Stroll/Sirotkin pairing is probably the least likely...

[The Black Knight]

Kvyat or Di Resta are the only sensible options to me. Kubica at 90% is not enough. Needs to be 99%. I hope either Kvyat or Paul get the drive. Kubica’s time has come and gone.

[zako85]

I would love to see Kubica come back and stun everyone with solid performance like Raikkonen did in 2012 (2012 was so good to Kimi that he did then better than subsequently at Ferrari).

[Bagwan]

Sirotkin reportedly has 15 million to throw in , but as it's said to be from possibly scary Russians , it comes with risk .

[driveace]

Hope its Kubica or maybe Kvyat .
Dont rate PdR and when a friend of mine congratulated him on coming 2nd after a hard touring car Race in the GermanTC Race he told him to F Off
Rob Smedley will work with anybody the board decide on It would be nice to see Williams up in the top 3 where they should be

[Nitrodaze]

I think it is a toss up between Kyvat and Werhlein. Werhlein got five points this year in an underpowered Sauber, imagine how he would do in a Williams. Kyvat on the other hand is a sure thing. He would match and better Massa in the Williams. He would certainly deliver whatever most people hope to see from Kubica.

Kyvat coming unto the market has really put the spanners into the Kubica hope of getting the drive at Williams.

[AndyL]

When this was debated after Felipe's first retirement, there was talk that Williams' booze sponsor required a driver over 25. Kvyat and Wehrlein are both under 25 still, and the team still has that sponsor.

[Nitrodaze]

When this was debated after Felipe's first retirement, there was talk that Williams' booze sponsor required a driver over 25. Kvyat and Wehrlein are both under 25 still, and the team still has that sponsor.

There was also talk that there is a work around if Williams retain Di Resta who is over 25 as reserve driver and use him for the promotions and marketing of the booze sponsors which would allow an under 25 driver to take the second seat along side Stroll.

[Storm]

Kvyat or Di Resta are the only sensible options to me. Kubica at 90% is not enough. Needs to be 99%. I hope either Kvyat or Paul get the drive. Kubica’s time has come and gone.

Even at under 100% he is probably better than the others. They got chances and didn't really set the world afire. Kubica should be back if only for a few races to see how he goes.

[Nitrodaze]

Even at under 100% he is probably better than the others. They got chances and didn't really set the world afire. Kubica should be back if only for a few races to see how he goes.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you on this one. But this is the heart talking. From the head, Williams have drifted from a strong 3rd place in the constructors championship to 5th over the last two seasons. This must have had some financial impact to this illustrious multi-world champion privateer team. I think their mindset would be to get back to 3rd place again next season or the one after. Hence they don't have the luxury of experimenting with drivers to see if they could deliver or not. They need a guaranteed option of a driver that is definitely a sure thing to deliver strong high point scoring drives every weekend next season and also able to mentor the fast developing Lance Stroll.

When you look at it from this perspective, then it quickly becomes clear that the Kubica option may be shaky with the likes of Kyvat becoming available. I think Williams have looked at Di Resta's simulator data and have seen that they probably need more, so he is not looking like a real option at the moment. Sirotkin and his millions will not guarantee Williams a move back to 3rd place, hence l don't see this happening either. Werhlein with a Mercedes reduction in Engine price etc is a real option, because l think he can perform as well as Ocon, Verstapenn and Sainz in the Williams.

Kyvat is looking like a realistic option, but has he recovered from being dumped by Redbull. His head went into a spin over the last two seasons which resulted in number of crashes. A change of team would be good for him. But his crash record would be a worry for Williams. I think the Williams environment would be ideal for Kyvat, it would calm him down which would allow Williams to get the best that he can offer out of him.

The other very important factor is age. Picking a driver with a longer shelf life gives Williams an opportunity to grow with a consistent driver lineup that could offer Williams a long period of service. Kyvat and Werhlein are in their twenties and the ideal profile for Williams. Di Resta and Kyvat are in their thirties which in recent F1 era, is close to the Use By date for drivers. They only have a very few years in them. In essence, Williams would be swapping one retiring thirty something for another.

To be honest, l think Kubica would show some impressive performances but can he sustain it over a 21 race season. That nobody knows. It is a huge gamble which will be very famous if it happens and succeeds. But the more l think about it, the clearer it become that it most likely would not happen.

[Nitrodaze]

I don't think anyone would disagree with you on this one. But this is the heart talking. From the head, Williams have drifted from a strong 3rd place in the constructors championship to 5th over the last two seasons. This must have had some financial impact to this illustrious multi-world champion privateer team. I think their mindset would be to get back to 3rd place again next season or the one after. Hence they don't have the luxury of experimenting with drivers to see if they could deliver or not. They need a guaranteed option of a driver that is definitely a sure thing to deliver strong high point scoring drives every weekend next season and also able to mentor the fast developing Lance Stroll.

When you look at it from this perspective, then it quickly becomes clear that the Kubica option may be shaky with the likes of Kyvat becoming available. I think Williams have looked at Di Resta's simulator data and have seen that they probably need more, so he is not looking like a real option at the moment. Sirotkin and his millions will not guarantee Williams a move back to 3rd place, hence l don't see this happening either. Werhlein with a Mercedes reduction in Engine price etc is a real option, because l think he can perform as well as Ocon, Verstapenn and Sainz in the Williams.

Kyvat is looking like a realistic option, but has he recovered from being dumped by Redbull. His head went into a spin over the last two seasons which resulted in number of crashes. A change of team would be good for him. But his crash record would be a worry for Williams. I think the Williams environment would be ideal for Kyvat, it would calm him down which would allow Williams to get the best that he can offer out of him.

The other very important factor is age. Picking a driver with a longer shelf life gives Williams an opportunity to grow with a consistent driver lineup that could offer Williams a long period of service. Kyvat and Werhlein are in their twenties and the ideal profile for Williams. Di Resta and Kyvat are in their thirties which in recent F1 era, is close to the Use By date for drivers. They only have a very few years in them. In essence, Williams would be swapping one retiring thirty something for another.

To be honest, l think Kubica would show some impressive performances but can he sustain it over a 21 race season. That nobody knows. It is a huge gamble which will be very famous if it happens and succeeds. But the more l think about it, the clearer it become that it most likely would not happen.


The grapevine is suggesting that Williams is going with Sirotkin afterall. Apparently, he outperformed Kubica during the last test, which is reassuring. But if Mercedes really want to get Werhlein that drive, the postponement of the Williams decision suggest they have a real opportunity to put Werhlein in that seat. The question is, do Mercedes see a future with Werhlein?

[Nitrodaze]

Has anyone heard anything about this seat yet?

[Nitrodaze]

Kyvat has been signed by Ferrari as their development driver. I think Williams has missed a trick here. But l am sure he would rather be racing.

[[RMC]Pip]

It's all but confirmed that Sirotkin will get the drive - at least this what all the media outlets are reporting.
PlanetF1 - http://www.planetf1.com/news/williams-finalising-deal-for-sirotkin-report/
+ with Kvyat as a Ferrari development driver Skysports says:
"But he was still one of the frontrunners for the Williams drive, which is now set to be taken by countryman Sergey Sirotkin. The 22-year-old appears to have beaten off competition from Robert Kubica to replace Felipe Massa."

[truefan72]

Williams have lost the last semblance of a respected F1 team with the signing of a 2nd pay driver. It is sad and shameful.

[Jarek Z]

Has anyone heard anything about this seat yet?

Yes. Sirotkin gets the second seat in Williams.

Robert Kubica signed as Williams reserve and development driver:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2018/1/kubica-signed-as-williams-reserve-driver.html

https://www.facebook.com/WilliamsF1Team/videos/2109776025753040/

http://www.autoklub.pl/news/foto/201801/news20180116_82040h.jpg

[Starter]

Sad and shameful perhaps, but a never ending sign of a team on it's way down and out. I expect a smaller grid in the next few years.

[N4D13]

I'm actually cautiously optimistic about Sirotkin. Since he outperformed Kubica at a Williams test, he can't be all that bad... either that or Robert is past it, but in either case, I believe Williams' decision to be correct. Let's see. :)

[truefan72]

I'm actually cautiously optimistic about Sirotkin. Since he outperformed Kubica at a Williams test, he can't be all that bad... either that or Robert is past it, but in either case, I believe Williams' decision to be correct. Let's see. :)

If they were not going to go with Kubica, then the handsdown best driver out there (and miles better than either sirotkin or stroll) was Wehrlein. I blame Wolf in this as well since, Pascal is a Mercedes driver and Williams are a mercedes vendor. Wehrlein would have produced some decent results for them given the equipment (or at very worst a bit better than what Massa did) But instead they choose 15m and an average pay driver. They don;t get it. Decent results and more WCC points means a lot more in terms of payout and sponsorship money than a cash infusion of 15m and then toiling around at the back with the Saubers. Oh well. Perhpas it was best that Wehrlein didn't join them and hopefully looks prepared for a mercedes or Force India Seat in 2019 ( if ocon moves )

[Bagwan]

So , team Willy now has some money to work with , to create a better car .
That's good , isn't it ?

And , team Willy has Lance , who isn't a rookie any more , starting in the most complicated series , in the most complicated car , on the trickiest tires yet , going into his second year much more confidently .
That's good , isn't it ?

And , Sirotkin showed well enough in testing to make his cash usable , and so they have two young , hungry drivers .
So , that's good , too , isn't it ?

And , then we come to Kubica , who should be ready and able to sub in , should it be needed , but , more importantly , should provide good mentoring to the young lads , along with his set-up skills .
Stability and calmness in the debrief room could be essential with the young pairing .
So , there it is , good , too , so team Willy doesn't seem to be really in such dire straights after all , does it ?

The bagwan's crystal ball sees Willy running over False India this year , so be ready for the shock , y'all .

[Nitrodaze]

So , team Willy now has some money to work with , to create a better car .
That's good , isn't it ?

And , team Willy has Lance , who isn't a rookie any more , starting in the most complicated series , in the most complicated car , on the trickiest tires yet , going into his second year much more confidently .
That's good , isn't it ?

And , Sirotkin showed well enough in testing to make his cash usable , and so they have two young , hungry drivers .
So , that's good , too , isn't it ?

And , then we come to Kubica , who should be ready and able to sub in , should it be needed , but , more importantly , should provide good mentoring to the young lads , along with his set-up skills .
Stability and calmness in the debrief room could be essential with the young pairing .
So , there it is , good , too , so team Willy doesn't seem to be really in such dire straights after all , does it ?

The bagwan's crystal ball sees Willy running over False India this year , so be ready for the shock , y'all .

I wonder how much of that money would be spent on repairing driver error crashes. Force India have a better driver lineup. I would be surprised if they can bother Force India. I see them drifting further down the grid to about 7th or 8th if Sauber with a 2018 Ferrari engine recover their mojo and Ericsson drive as well as he did in 2017. Stroll is still wet around the ears. Williams may well be doing battle with Torro Ross at the back of the grid. Besides the big boys, I think Redbull, Mclaren, Renault and Force India would be ahead of them.

[Nitrodaze]

I'm actually cautiously optimistic about Sirotkin. Since he outperformed Kubica at a Williams test, he can't be all that bad... either that or Robert is past it, but in either case, I believe Williams' decision to be correct. Let's see. :)

I don't envy Sirotkin for his break into a Williams drive. His team clearly have not thought things through properly. He comes into a team like Williams without the benefit of an experienced mentor to help him lay down the foundations for his F1 career. He would be going into the deep end to swim or sink. It is a recipe for a short F1 career. I cannot see how Stroll could help him, Stroll is still trying to get to grips with things but at least got the benefit of one year under the mentoring of Massa.

If this season turns out to be a poor showing for Williams, it could seriously undermine the credibility of the team. I am not sure that is worth $15m.

[Nitrodaze]

If they were not going to go with Kubica, then the handsdown best driver out there (and miles better than either sirotkin or stroll) was Wehrlein. I blame Wolf in this as well since, Pascal is a Mercedes driver and Williams are a mercedes vendor. Wehrlein would have produced some decent results for them given the equipment (or at very worst a bit better than what Massa did) But instead they choose 15m and an average pay driver. They don;t get it. Decent results and more WCC points means a lot more in terms of payout and sponsorship money than a cash infusion of 15m and then toiling around at the back with the Saubers. Oh well. Perhpas it was best that Wehrlein didn't join them and hopefully looks prepared for a mercedes or Force India Seat in 2019 ( if ocon moves )

I agree with you on this. If Williams were serious about getting to the front, l would have thought they would go for Kyvat or Werhlein. But we have seen some really bad decisions taken at Williams in recent years, so this one simply consolidates the view that this is a spent team.

[Bagwan]

No money means no speed , and no driver wants that .

Now , with SMP backing for Sirotkin , and daddy-o for Stroll , they have more money than dog .

[Nitrodaze]

No money means no speed , and no driver wants that .

Now , with SMP backing for Sirotkin , and daddy-o for Stroll , they have more money than dog .

Only a feeder team like Torro Rosso would field two inexperienced drivers. An A Team would field, at least one experienced driver alongside a promising inexperience driver. Speed without an experienced pilot to fully exploit it is a waste and only leads back round the cycle to money drought.

[Bagwan]

Only a feeder team like Torro Rosso would field two inexperienced drivers. An A Team would field, at least one experienced driver alongside a promising inexperience driver. Speed without an experienced pilot to fully exploit it is a waste and only leads back round the cycle to money drought.

Sure , spend big money on a driver , only to put him in a crap car he can do nothing with .
Sounds great .

No , spending money on the machinery , then throwing the dice on the drivers sounds like a better bet to me .
Either driver comes good , and you're in with a chance .

It fits with the age-old philosophy at team Willy , where they have always chosen to spend it on the car when the WDC they created asks for more money .

[Tazio]

Hey Baggie,
What is with the Canadian blabermouth? The dude is tripping me out:


Villeneuve was consistently brutal with his critiques on TV and to anyone else who asked him about his compatriot. And then, even after the fine Montreal and Baku performances, where Stroll scored his first points and podium respectively, Villeneuve kept the screw turned tight.“He wasn’t quick in Montreal, but everybody broke down, he kept his nose clean, he got points, and that took a weight off his shoulders. You could see it [at Baku]. When everybody was banging into each other, he wasn’t, and his teammate broke down as well.
"Yes, he was lucky, but he was also quick, he didn’t do any stupid things, and he got on the podium. Nothing wrong with that.
“You still have to be real. Montreal was helpful and [Baku] was good, but that won’t change what I said earlier in the season.”
He further criticized Stroll by saying: “He did well, but also he’s the only driver who tests between races. That’s a little bit tough to swallow. Money has to have a limit, and that’s pushing it.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lance-stroll-silence-harshest-critic-villeneuve-997101/
What does he mean by the part I emboldened. Surely he is talking about the simulator, which he is not exclusive in that practice....Or have I missed something? :confused:

[Firstgear]

Tazzy, google 'Stroll rents suzuka' or something similar. Here's one result http://en.f1i.com/news/280666-stroll-family-dashes-kubicas-hopes-williams-test.html

It was in the news a while back when Kubica was trying to get up to speed.

[Bagwan]

Hey Baggie,
What is with the Canadian blabermouth? The dude is tripping me out:


What does he mean by the part I emboldened. Surely he is talking about the simulator, which he is not exclusive in that practice....Or have I missed something? :confused:

Nice to "see" you Tazzy , old man .

Firstgear has it right . Daddy has rented a bunch of tracks at different times to help get him up to speed .

JV's just being real here , man . Same as ever .
He was harsh on the lad early on , but that was , in part , because Lance really does deserve a few jealous leers from his fellow rookies for the extra track time , albeit in an older car .

But , notice in those quotes that he does say "but he was also quick" and "didn't do any stupid things" .
Those are huge compliments from JV , obviously countering a leading question about Lucky Lance .

So , yeah , Tazmo , don't be trippin' on my boy's words from way over there outside the loop .
Have a sip of maple syrup and chill .

[Tazio]

:angel: Apparently I'm not the only one not buying what your man is pushing!
http://en.f1i.com/news/289672-stroll-dismisses-villeneuve-always-negative-comments.html

[Bagwan]

:angel: Apparently I'm not the only one not buying what your man is pushing!
http://en.f1i.com/news/289672-stroll-dismisses-villeneuve-always-negative-comments.html

Lance , obviously , also glossed over the compliments made by JV .

That's OK .
He's got everyone around him in his ear saying "don't listen to Jacques" .

He should , though .
And , he absolutely will if he does well , as JV will be the first one they all ask for comment .
He'll listen closely then .

The lad sits firmly behind the eight-ball , as he's "daddy's boy" , but I think he's gonna be alright in the end .
He'll come good , and get his praise from JV as he deserves it .

[Nitrodaze]

Sure , spend big money on a driver , only to put him in a crap car he can do nothing with .
Sounds great .

No , spending money on the machinery , then throwing the dice on the drivers sounds like a better bet to me .
Either driver comes good , and you're in with a chance .

It fits with the age-old philosophy at team Willy , where they have always chosen to spend it on the car when the WDC they created asks for more money .

Baggie, why are you writing off the Williams 2018 car before it is even launched. Why do you think the 2018 car would be crap? I think the 2018 Williams car would be a better car than last year's car because of a number of things:-

1. They had some funding from the Stroll family to ensure they build a great car for 2018.
2. 2018 is the first chance for Paddy Lowe to make an influencing input to the Williams car

For these two reasons alone, l fully expect the 2018 car to be top midfield contender. I can see how Sirotkins money would be usefull to fund development of the car through the season. But the pressure would be squarely on Lance to deliver solid performances from the outset of the season. He would effectively be the lead driver at Wiliiams on account of being the most experienced driver with a race seat in the Williams garage.

Sirotkin would win the heart and minds of the entire F1 grid if he measures up to the more experienced Stroll squarely or better. If Sirotkin performs equally as good or better than Lance Stroll, Villenueve would be justified for his comments about the young Canadian. Hence, this rivalry is one to watch with interest.
Of Course, if Sirotkin turns out to be slower and makes alot of costly mistakes, he be just another useless moneybag driver not deserving of an F1 seat. Somehow, l don't think this would be the case. Sirotkin has more to prove than Lance Stroll who has acquitted himself by obtaining his first podium in F1 last years. To have a future in F1 beyond this season, Sirotkin has to match or beat Lance Stroll, otherwise, it could be adios amigo in 2019 for the Russian moneybag driver.

[Bagwan]

Baggie, why are you writing off the Williams 2018 car before it is even launched. Why do you think the 2018 car would be crap? I think the 2018 Williams car would be a better car than last year's car because of a number of things:-

1. They had some funding from the Stroll family to ensure they build a great car for 2018.
2. 2018 is the first chance for Paddy Lowe to make an influencing input to the Williams car

For these two reasons alone, l fully expect the 2018 car to be top midfield contender. I can see how Sirotkins money would be usefull to fund development of the car through the season. But the pressure would be squarely on Lance to deliver solid performances from the outset of the season. He would effectively be the lead driver at Wiliiams on account of being the most experienced driver with a race seat in the Williams garage.

Sirotkin would win the heart and minds of the entire F1 grid if he measures up to the more experienced Stroll squarely or better. If Sirotkin performs equally as good or better than Lance Stroll, Villenueve would be justified for his comments about the young Canadian. Hence, this rivalry is one to watch with interest.
Of Course, if Sirotkin turns out to be slower and makes alot of costly mistakes, he be just another useless moneybag driver not deserving of an F1 seat. Somehow, l don't think this would be the case. Sirotkin has more to prove than Lance Stroll who has acquitted himself by obtaining his first podium in F1 last years. To have a future in F1 beyond this season, Sirotkin has to match or beat Lance Stroll, otherwise, it could be adios amigo in 2019 for the Russian moneybag driver.

Dazey , I'm not really sure about how you got the idea that I think the team Willy car will be crap next season .
Read my second paragraph once again .
They need the cash right now in order to build a fast one , and the two youngsters will both be tasked with making it meet it's potential .

Lance will have the advantage , at least at first , as they know him well now , so it makes sense that the car will favour his preferred set-up .
But , apparently , Sergey impressed as a fast learner , so I expect him to be up to speed very quickly .

As an aside to all this , I might make one other point .
Many saw Massa as a good mentor for Lance , and he might have started out that way , but as the season went on , it seemed to me that the relationship got a bit strained a few times , and the mentoring became affected by the pout .
But , now they have Kubica in the background , developing the car , and , more importantly , being a really stable , patient mentor for the boys .

Team Willy is in good shape for the coming season as far as I can see .

[Nitrodaze]

Dazey , I'm not really sure about how you got the idea that I think the team Willy car will be crap next season .
Read my second paragraph once again .
They need the cash right now in order to build a fast one , and the two youngsters will both be tasked with making it meet it's potential .

Lance will have the advantage , at least at first , as they know him well now , so it makes sense that the car will favour his preferred set-up .
But , apparently , Sergey impressed as a fast learner , so I expect him to be up to speed very quickly .

As an aside to all this , I might make one other point .
Many saw Massa as a good mentor for Lance , and he might have started out that way , but as the season went on , it seemed to me that the relationship got a bit strained a few times , and the mentoring became affected by the pout .
But , now they have Kubica in the background , developing the car , and , more importantly , being a really stable , patient mentor for the boys .

Team Willy is in good shape for the coming season as far as I can see .

Makes alot of sense now, your post. I have to say l worry for Williams and hope the team comes good in the near future. But it really frustrated me to see them where they were last season. Much as it frustrated me that Mclaren did not find an answer to getting back to the sharp end of the grid. The driver choice will make alot of sense if Lance steps up a gear and deliver as good an outcome has he managed in 2017. Another podium or a regular top five finishes would put all the criticisms well to bed.

[Bagwan]

" Another podium or a regular top five finishes would put all the criticisms well to bed."
Nope , don't think so .
He'll have to live with being "daddy's boy" his whole life , poor thing .

But , even though you might be criticized heavily for it , why the hell not take every step you can to get there .
Jacques might be right that it seems an unfair advantage , trundling around tracks in an older car , but JV , himself , would have taken the same advantage in a heartbeat , had testing been as restricted in his day .
He was 2 seconds down on Hill's time when he was signed and it was only through relentless testing that he got up to speed .

JV gets a lot of the same stick , being he had an easier way into the circus because of his dad , too .
It certainly didn't stop when he got his title , but I'm sure that WDC makes it feel a little less uncomfortable .

[Nitrodaze]

" Another podium or a regular top five finishes would put all the criticisms well to bed."
Nope , don't think so .
He'll have to live with being "daddy's boy" his whole life , poor thing .

But , even though you might be criticized heavily for it , why the hell not take every step you can to get there .
Jacques might be right that it seems an unfair advantage , trundling around tracks in an older car , but JV , himself , would have taken the same advantage in a heartbeat , had testing been as restricted in his day .
He was 2 seconds down on Hill's time when he was signed and it was only through relentless testing that he got up to speed .

JV gets a lot of the same stick , being he had an easier way into the circus because of his dad , too .
It certainly didn't stop when he got his title , but I'm sure that WDC makes it feel a little less uncomfortable .

It is interesting how fathers have become quite prominently visible as instrumental force in bringing about the success of some of the drivers in recent F1 seasons.

It all started with Hamilton and sacrifices his father made to mold a multiple world champion out of his young son. Since then, Verstapen and the towering mentorship of his F1 driver dad promises to produce the next generation of world champion. Similarly, there is Carlos Sainz Jr and his multiple Rally car world champion dad. Damon Hill had to take this journey on his own but l am sure he would had given anything to have his multiple world champion dad in the paddocks when he won his own WDC. Of course there was Jenson Button and his father who was ever present to support his son. Massa saw benefit in this idea and brought his father to as many races as he could. Not to forget Nico Rosberg. Most recently is Lance Stroll.

The Stroll case is quite different from every other cases mentioned. In that, all the others have emerged from financially challenging origins to an earned place on the F1 grid and the hard way. Lance's origin was from the comfort of family riches. The only other driver with such origins was David Coultard. Even David had to earn his place on the grid from his sheer talent and not by paying for his seat. Hence, l can understand the rich boy would endure some daddy stick throughout his career. But l think we have seen enough to say he has talent. How big a talent he can become is yet to be seen. Surely, they cannot buy a WDC, he has to go out there and drive to it.

When we compare him to Verstapen, Sainz, Ocon and Werhlein, you could say he has not set the track alight with performances that suggest big promises. He took a while to really get up to speed with Massa. When he finally did, the Williams had so much issues and Massa suffered most of them, such that Lance appeared to match Massa.

Hence, 2018 is a crucial year for Stroll, as he would be in the limelight, he is not a rookie anymore and the hopes for most of the points for the teams rest with him. It is a huge pressure that would not be helped by the arrival of a rookie fighting for chance of a seat beyond 2018.

[N. Jones]

It's a young lineup that has me wondering if Williams will ever see the top side of the grid on a regular basis.

[Bagwan]

As I suspected , Massa wasn't the mentor he signed up to be , according to Lance .
Massa has responded with a curt "I shouldn't comment" comment .

It might have been a little fault from both sides , but I never got the impression that Felipe wanted the new boy to get too close to him .

Either way , it points out that it was a tougher road than it looked to be from the outside for the young lad .
The way Lance spoke , there seems to have been a fair amount of resentment shown at the mere idea of any mentoring having taken place at all .
That's pretty destabilizing for a new guy , thrown into the deep end with everybody and their uncles saying that they are expecting him to fail because he's just the rich kid .

I think he'll do a lot better without the Mousa pout in the other side of the garage .

[Nitrodaze]

As I suspected , Massa wasn't the mentor he signed up to be , according to Lance .
Massa has responded with a curt "I shouldn't comment" comment .

It might have been a little fault from both sides , but I never got the impression that Felipe wanted the new boy to get too close to him .

Either way , it points out that it was a tougher road than it looked to be from the outside for the young lad .
The way Lance spoke , there seems to have been a fair amount of resentment shown at the mere idea of any mentoring having taken place at all .
That's pretty destabilizing for a new guy , thrown into the deep end with everybody and their uncles saying that they are expecting him to fail because he's just the rich kid .

I think he'll do a lot better without the Mousa pout in the other side of the garage .

It was a hard situation the Massa - Stroll setup. Massa has to mentor while protecting his F1 legacy. Stroll want to make a reputation for himself by beating the veteran F1 driver Massa. I am sure Stroll started out thinking this was going to be an easy enough job until he discovered that Massa was not that slow as most woulkd like to let on. Hence, l can see that there would be some frustration from the Stroll side of the garage. And also from the Massa side which may suggest why the departure of Massa was abit mysterious but expected.

[nealst10]

I see them drifting further down the grid to about 7th or 8th if Sauber with a 2018 Ferrari engine recover their mojo and Ericsson drive as well as he did in 2017. Stroll is still wet around the ears.

[Nitrodaze]

On day two of test two, Serotkin seem to be struggling to get good pace. He is three seconds from Stroll and five seconds of the best time set on the day. We have to see how he gets along on day three and four. At the mo, not looking good for Williams.

[gm99]

The fastest Williams Driver at the moment appears to be Kubica...

[Nitrodaze]

The fastest Williams Driver at the moment appears to be Kubica...

Sirotkin finished as the fastest Williams driver of Test Two. But we know this is not representative of the pecking order between the Williams drivers. But it is comforting to see that he can bang out competitive lap times relative the the other two.

[Bagwan]

It may be Kubica who steals the drive in the end , if you listen to Jacques .
And , though most will say his words are rubbish , he's got a point .
F1 is "dog eat dog" , as they say .

But , more important at this point , would , in fact , be the ultimate wisdom of making entirely sure that he is ready to go because he may get the call-up if the SMP sponsorship of Sirotkin dries up as a result of the sanction problems .

And , not that I have any particular issue with the Russian driver , but it presents as a dark cloud over the team , especially now , being British .
So , dropping him would be a patriotic win , at the same time as picking up the great press for a Kubica comeback .
I would think that when all is said and done , it could refill whatever void is left after an SMP withdrawal .

I'd bet Rosberg is working hard , as I write this , to work out the details to get this done .

As for the car , cooling issues killed it .
Expect new venting all over it , and a much more representative next race .

[Nitrodaze]

It may be Kubica who steals the drive in the end , if you listen to Jacques .
And , though most will say his words are rubbish , he's got a point .
F1 is "dog eat dog" , as they say .

But , more important at this point , would , in fact , be the ultimate wisdom of making entirely sure that he is ready to go because he may get the call-up if the SMP sponsorship of Sirotkin dries up as a result of the sanction problems .

And , not that I have any particular issue with the Russian driver , but it presents as a dark cloud over the team , especially now , being British .
So , dropping him would be a patriotic win , at the same time as picking up the great press for a Kubica comeback .
I would think that when all is said and done , it could refill whatever void is left after an SMP withdrawal .

I'd bet Rosberg is working hard , as I write this , to work out the details to get this done .

As for the car , cooling issues killed it .
Expect new venting all over it , and a much more representative next race .

Whatever the case, it seems to have gone horribly wrong at Williams. Nothing looks right with the team at the moment. The car has issues, the driver pairing is questionable and as much as l like Kubica, it is looking to me like Williams would have benefited from a driver with recent F1 racing experience in the test driver position to help develop the car since their drivers of choice lack the requisite experience.

From Paddy Lowe's perspective, he has failed to deliver by a mile actually. Plum last is not good enough.

[A FONDO]

In qualy, Williams is the only team who was slower this year compared to previous one. And it's not a couple of tenths, it is 1,3 seconds. Something is fundamentally wrong.

[Bagwan]

I'm not so sure we should blame the drivers for being so Lowe in the standings .

[Tazio]

I blame Jacques for strolling into a certain racers head. :angel:

[Bagwan]

To be Frank , it's Claire the car is not Willy good .

[Starter]

To be Frank , it's Claire the car is not Willy good .
Isn't there a Mod around who can ban this kind of behavior? ;):D

[airshifter]

Isn't there a Mod around who can ban this kind of behavior? ;):D

Seconded. These kinds of Lowe blows have no place on the forum. :laugh:



Just dismal from Williams. I was on the fence about their driver options, but for now it doesn't even look like Alonso could hoist those cars up into a solid mid field race. The stress on the faces in the garage leads me to think that right now they have no more clue what is completely wrong than the guesses of those of us watching it.

Maybe it's time to bring back the walrus?

[Bagwan]

Don't worry about Williams .
They're already ahead of the Saubers , right up there , mixing it up with the Hondas .

[Bagwan]

Seconded. These kinds of Lowe blows have no place on the forum. :laugh:



Just dismal from Williams. I was on the fence about their driver options, but for now it doesn't even look like Alonso could hoist those cars up into a solid mid field race. The stress on the faces in the garage leads me to think that right now they have no more clue what is completely wrong than the guesses of those of us watching it.

Maybe it's time to bring back the walrus?

Claire has said that Lewis couldn't drive it .

I've read that the diffuser is stalling badly , which makes the rear end incredibly unstable .
That makes sense , with the spins they've had .

At least they believe they know the issue , so they can set to rectify it .