[WRC] News & Rumours 2018

[Lousada]

Well, endurance racing is actually realtively easy to produce TV production for. The reason is simply that eventhough the Nordschleife and Circuit de la Sarthe (or any other) are very long, the cars always stay in the same place. So you can just place the cameras and leave them there. I always watch those races cause they're interesting and the live broadcast at least in Europe is very good and extensive.

With the WRC or any rally series for that matter the problem is that you'd need loads more cameras and staff to do much live broadcasting.




Of course this is completely not true. The Tour de France and other cycling races travel 200 km a day and they only have fixed cameras at the stage end. Yet every day they manage to make a compelling 6 hour broadcast that is watched by millions. They also have a service park that is equal in size and grandeur to a WRC park, that they build up and demolish every single day without problem.

Rallying is nothing like circuitracing and should never be compared with it. Mahonen Capito and all the others, all they do is look at rally and find how it compares unfavorably with circuit racing. And of course they find millions of things wrong with rallying, because rallying is nothing like circuitracing.

Imagine if the boss of the NBA orders that all the players should now start kicking the ball with their feet. Because you know, football is bigger worldwide than basketball so the sports should be more alike. Completely ridiculous of course, yet this is precisely what current rally bosses are doing.

*end of rant*

[Lousada]

And 1000 Lakes Rally almost went bankrupt those days because the stages were mostly under 10 kms long (https://www.rally-maps.com/Rally-Finland-1986), it just wasn't appealing to anyone :rolleyes:

That was also the time when nobody outside of Scandinavia cared about the 1000 Lakes Rally. A quick scan of the final results of 86 reveils that Malcolm Wilson was the only serious non-Finn or non-Swede on the entrylist.

[rp]

That was also the time when nobody outside of Scandinavia cared about the 1000 Lakes Rally. A quick scan of the final results of 86 reveils that Malcolm Wilson was the only serious non-Finn or non-Swede on the entrylist.

The main reason was that all the top drivers except Röhrl & Biasion were from Finland or Sweden! :)

Walter took two WRC titles, but he never competed in Rally Finland, because he was sure that it was not possible to win. It´s a shame, because he was very talented and after that era the next generation drivers showed that it´s possible...

[AnttiL]

That was also the time when nobody outside of Scandinavia cared about the 1000 Lakes Rally. A quick scan of the final results of 86 reveils that Malcolm Wilson was the only serious non-Finn or non-Swede on the entrylist.

Yeah, it was only Finnish car manufacturers, teams, film crews and spectators. And FISA didn't care either, so it was just a national event. :rolleyes:

Seriously, most of the top drivers back then were Scandinavians. Röhrl never dared to try Finland, whereas Mouton rolled her Audi a couple of times. Saby got through the rally in a Renault 5 Turbo in 1984, but it was not a competitive car on gravel.

[AnttiL]

The Tour de France and other cycling races travel 200 km a day and they only have fixed cameras at the stage end. Yet every day they manage to make a compelling 6 hour broadcast that is watched by millions. They also have a service park that is equal in size and grandeur to a WRC park, that they build up and demolish every single day without problem.

It's easier to follow a single group of cyclists going at 40 km/h on big open roads than 12 rally cars starting at 3 minute intervals, going 120 km/h amid trees and around hairpins.

[Tarmop]

Compare cycling with rallying...well, ok.
Live picture, as said, from a group of cyclists moving on the same road is rather easy to catch with helicopters and cameras on bikes/in cars. Apart from the helicopter, the other part is not an option in rallying.
Bicycle service...well, again, they may look big but compared to equipment necessary for servicing a rally car it`s pretty much nothing. Probably takes one roadcar to fit a cyclist or two with all the necessary equipment. Those days, when a driver pulled over the roadside and smoked a few cigarettes with his mechanics while they were changing a gearbox, are over. Just like you can`t do everything on your modern roadcar with some simple ratchets and logical thinking, whereas its older generations can be easily rebuilt.

[ESTR]

Just excuses all over and over... Nothing is impossible. Why spend on expensive helis if you can have few more drones in the air... And with almost every car equiped with cameras inside they still struggle with live broadcasting... But all action is filmed and then only show a few clips to the world... And bring more different not just one with two repeats... I know it's expensive but if they will invest properly and show more to the the world I think that they could achieve even more and bring even more numbers...

[AnttiL]

Just excuses all over and over... Nothing is impossible. Why spend on expensive helis if you can have few more drones in the air... And with almost every car equiped with cameras inside they still struggle with live broadcasting... But all action is filmed and then only show a few clips to the world... And bring more different not just one with two repeats... I know it's expensive but if they will invest properly and show more to the the world I think that they could achieve even more and bring even more numbers...

Drones have a limited range and won't substitute helicopters in a while. They are used for different things. Drones are more like FX cameras which can get closer to the cars than helicopters.

And the live broadcast is tricky, they have to have an airplane flying around the stage to supply network connection to the cars in order to get live streams from the onboard cameras.

I don't understand the "only a few clips part" or "more different not just one with two repeats" part. I mean, the daily programs can't be 10 hours long, they have to make some editing. Although, I'd love to have complete footage from a filmed corner as a part of WRC+ bonus features, just like the onboards.

[Simmi]

Eurosport showed what is possible with some immersive multi-stage coverage. And that was almost eight years ago. It just comes down to money and desire.

[AndyRAC]

Eurosport showed what is possible with some immersive multi-stage coverage. And that was almost eight years ago. It just comes down to money and desire.

Rallye du Valais was October 2008, and the 2009 Monte was 3 months later; and the events that Eurosport covered live in the IRC are still the benchmark for live Rally coverage.
What Red Bull do with their live Super Stage on the Saturday is very nice; but only 1 live 'free' stage simply isn't good enough in 2017 if you're trying to grow an audience. Rallying is up against other motorsport series who provide free streaming of their events. In an ideal world, there would be free coverage on each day of an event; 1 stage in the morning, and possibly repeated in the afternoon.

Personally, the coverage we now get from Red Bull is what I thought we'd get when they took over - it's taken them 5 years to provide the absolute minimum in regards to coverage.

[mknight]

Eurosport showed what is possible with some immersive multi-stage coverage. And that was almost eight years ago. It just comes down to money and desire.

It also comes down to having an audience.

Quite many people both hear and on other sites refuse to pay anything at all for WRC+. (some saying it's not worth it). Some people even refuse to use the free codes for just about every rally cause "they would have to enter credit card"....

Sure you can turn the model around and say that everything will be free but the teams have to pay higher entry fees so fund the expenses.



-----------------

Rallye du Valais was October 2008, and the 2009 Monte was 3 months later; and the events that Eurosport covered live in the IRC are still the benchmark for live Rally coverage.
What Red Bull do with their live Super Stage on the Saturday is very nice; but only 1 live 'free' stage simply isn't good enough in 2017 if you're trying to grow an audience. Rallying is up against other motorsport series who provide free streaming of their events. In an ideal world, there would be free coverage on each day of an event; 1 stage in the morning, and possibly repeated in the afternoon.

Personally, the coverage we now get from Red Bull is what I thought we'd get when they took over - it's taken them 5 years to provide the absolute minimum in regards to coverage.

Not saying that the current coverage is all that good, but on all rallies there are at least 2 live stages, sometimes 3-4.

What I currently find quite stupid is that often they don't even give live coverage from all the Superspecials where you might need just a few cameras to cover everything and no helicopter.

[Barreis]

eurosport was great

[PLuto]

Ahhh, great memories from Rallye Monte Carlo by Eurosport. I remember when I was in their SNG car in the night on top of Col de Turini watching cars going on their monitor, when car was coming to that area I went out to see the car "live" and then returned back to the car watching the rest. Golden era of live coverage of special stages...

[Gregor-y]

2011 Monte Carlo had a ton of liver coverage and it was all available from their website later when I got home from work after listening to it at work. Getting any kind of TV coverage in the US via the internet was neigh impossible back then and Eurosport pulled it off. Probably forgetting to lock out North America figuring no one would be watching.
Example: 2011 day 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDEkMCKcyWk

Definitely the benchmark I have for live coverage, which admittedly is fairly small. The local redneck sports channel with dirt track sprints, motocross and tractor pulls will sometimes carry live WRC very early in the morning since we're eight hours behind and no one's awake to watch power boats crash on some reservoir in Arizona.

One more addition from 2011 Monte: out of close to nine hours live this hour and a half of the snow on day 2 (even with none of the seven helicopters that were covering the rally that year) is just the stuff of legend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gm2tVfJZ9s&index=2&list=PL0WiURMa5w_-dRpaasxe2KbjDImIaWEg_
Bouffier should have gone with diagonal studs rather than putting them both on the front.

[Allez Andruet]

That was also the time when nobody outside of Scandinavia cared about the 1000 Lakes Rally. A quick scan of the final results of 86 reveils that Malcolm Wilson was the only serious non-Finn or non-Swede on the entrylist.

Yeah, great point! Where were Meeke and Neuville?!?

[ESTR]

About that live coverage. Last year was so much talk about it how it will be even better this year but my opinion is that it wasn't. Maybe because of channel here in my country.. Magazines wasn't on programme until first day almost passed - so on friday evening. Because of delayed stages they just cut live stages and move on to football instead!! Half of the stages wasn't played right on time but delayed a few hours (timing in different world areas) so I accidentaly knew results from Facebook... Then highlights from first and second day wasn't even on... Then thank god for RedBull TV. And again only one stage on saturday and that's it... Well I saw on Eurosport ERC some time ago they played almost 5 times per day. Here is just football all over again.. Well not everyone like some Chinese leagues. I don't know but I think that I critizice too much and maybe I should pay for WRC+ instead.

[Duvel]

Wel i think it got a lot better the last year's. 5 years ago there was no live stage in WRC, now we can watch 2 on sundaymorning. Thats also a good time to sit and watch some rally. Whit some friends or family, watch the short podium after power stage.
We cant expect the whole rally going live do we?

Also Redbull tv is very good, thats bringing rally to a bigger public. Most of the guys i go to rally's whit are no die hards like us. there not going to sit to watch splits, or al lot of live stage's. But they sometimes do watch the redbul tv show, and are more up to date on things that way. I just think the die hard fanbase isn't big enough to justify more live stage's, well maybe 1 or 2 extra in the evening.

I had WRC+ for a wile, but now not anymore. If a rally is running, for me it is enough to have splits/stage/overal times, comments after finish, rally radio and than the forum here. When stage's are action packed thats a lot of fun to follow.

Regarding the idea of more shorter stage's, well i would be fine whit that as long as they leave the other stages the same. Make each loop one stage wider whit a short stage. Gives spectators also more options to plan there rally. (in 2004 rally Germany had 24 stages in 2016 they had 18..)
I get the idea more raly's have less stages than ten years ago, so if they fill up there timing whit some shorter one's, i'm fine whit that.

[AnttiL]

Not saying that the current coverage is all that good, but on all rallies there are at least 2 live stages, sometimes 3-4.

What I currently find quite stupid is that often they don't even give live coverage from all the Superspecials where you might need just a few cameras to cover everything and no helicopter.

I don't really mind, superspecials aren't that interesting, I'd rather invest that effort and money in a proper live stage. Which is probably what they did. It seems like towards the end of the season the Thursday super special was exchanged for a Sunday live stage (first run of the power stage)

[Rally Power]

For once, congrats to David Evans on the MN piece about Makinen/Mahonen 10 kms stages vision. Hearing that other manager’s are against the Finn’s view is great and Ciesla should take notice of it. He could also take notice of the overall opinion on this forum: WRC events individuality must be preserved.

Having PS televised, plus a proper recap of each leg (like RB is doing), always at the same time makes sense, but there’s no need for similar routes and schedules on all events.

[rallyfiend]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/133434/fia-rally-boss-wrc-should-look-at-short-stages

Interesting little line at the bottom now:

This story was updated on December 8 2017 to correct a misquoting of Jarmo Mahonen

[Zeakiwi]

Yeah, it was only Finnish car manufacturers, teams, film crews and spectators. And FISA didn't care either, so it was just a national event. :rolleyes:

Seriously, most of the top drivers back then were Scandinavians. Röhrl never dared to try Finland, whereas Mouton rolled her Audi a couple of times. Saby got through the rally in a Renault 5 Turbo in 1984, but it was not a competitive car on gravel.

Brits won the 1000 Lakes a number of times in that era as co-drivers Richards, Davenport and Liddon. Russell Brookes in the Chevette was 6th in 1982 - against the quattros, asconas, nissan turbos etc
I see the fastest stage in 1973 1000 lakes was an average 147.54 km/h SS32 Kaitainen, that is pretty good for a Mk1.

[AnttiL]

I see the fastest stage in 1973 1000 lakes was an average 147.54 km/h SS32 Kaitainen, that is pretty good for a Mk1.
That's a mistake in the length of the stage. It was shortened in the actual race, but the original length has remained in stats

[AnttiL]

Russell Brookes in the Chevette was 6th in 1982

His Gp4 Chevette lost 5 minutes to the private Gp2 Talbot of Antero Laine. Six of the first ten entries retired, including Alen, Vatanen, Mouton and Toivonen.

[EstWRC]

I come here to read news and rumours, this is page 28. The last real news and rumours i saw in this thread were on page 23, before that page 20...dont you guys wanna take your sweet memories to some other thread?

like here http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?31525-Rally-Discussion-and-Bar-Talk-Thread/page111

[AndyRAC]

Having PS televised, plus a proper recap of each leg (like RB is doing), always at the same time makes sense, but there’s no need for similar routes and schedules on all events.

Agree. But that goes against everything they believe in. Standardisation is king!! It's easy make an event viable with the 'WRC format'.

Personally, I've always been against it - it's fine in theory, and it worked for F1 (and other series), but it goes against what made the WRC unique.

[COD]

Skoda has announced drivers for 2018. Tidemand, Kopecky, Veiby, Rovanperä and Nordgren.
So many drivers, didn’t find info on programs yet

[Mirek]

1) For what do they need five drivers? Even for WRC2/APRC/Czech republic it's more than enough.

2) For what do they need so many young drivers? There is no VAG WRC now but maybe they count with it again in the future?

Not saying it's wrong. There just has to be a reason for so large team.

[ESTR]

1) For what do they need five drivers? Even for WRC2/APRC/Czech republic it's more than enough.

2) For what do they need so many young drivers? There is no VAG WRC now but maybe they count with it again in the future?

Not saying it's wrong. There just has to be a reason for so large team.

maybe ERC too?

[Mirek]

There are no ERC plans mentioned in the press release, only WRC2 which for me means "we need to do all events", "we need to get a lot of data" and "we need to work on new generation of drivers".

[pantealex]

I think many of us have not realized that WRC Wales is before WRC Catalonia next year, so which rally will be title decider ?
Wales? Catalonia? or last one Australia?

[Watson]

I think many of us have not realized that WRC Wales is before WRC Catalonia next year, so which rally will be title decider ?
Wales? Catalonia? or last one Australia?

That's a tough call but Wales is every so often very crucial because the conditions are usually very tricky and it's easy to throw the rally and therefore curcial points away.

[Sub_Skoda]

Skoda has announced drivers for 2018. Tidemand, Kopecky, Veiby, Rovanperä and Nordgren.
So many drivers, didn’t find info on programs yet

Wow! Awesome! Good news. But i'm sad to see that Skoda is not coming back in ERC.

[Andre Oliveira]

Škoda in ERC would kill the championship

[Sub_Skoda]

Škoda in ERC would kill the championship

And boredom will kill ERC... :(

[Rallyper]

Skoda must have something going on that hasn´t been announced yet. That´s my only explanation. Let´s wait and see.

[Reis Eduardo]

Škoda in ERC would kill the championship

Skoda would not kill the ERC, Skoda would not have one a domain as they have in WRC2 are complacently compliant competitions.
In the ERC the local pilots have an importance what neither happens nor does not exist in the WRC2.

[Mirek]

Skoda must have something going on that hasn´t been announced yet. That´s my only explanation. Let´s wait and see.

I smell a green light for the WRC car (2019-2020) but it's just my feeling in the moment...

[RICARDO75]

I smell a green light for the WRC car (2019-2020) but it's just my feeling in the moment...

I have the same feelinf and it's time to have another oficial team on WRC

[Essaj]

I smell a green light for the WRC car (2019-2020) but it's just my feeling in the moment...

Don't WRC regulations change again for 2020? so that would make it the earliest.

[ESTR]

They could easily get Polo WRC 17 and change it to Fabia beast

[Mirek]

They could easily get Polo WRC 17 and change it to Fabia beast

A car developed in 2016 is obsolete in 2019-2020 no matter how good it would be in 2017.

[ESTR]

A car developed in 2016 is obsolete in 2019-2020 no matter how good it would be in 2017.

Yes but they could develop further and just continue what VW start.. Just my thoughts.. It doesn't matter, I think that they will no come in top league for at least for a while. They said it a couple of times already. It's too expensive for them and no point if they keep wining titles in WRC2 year after year.

[Franky]

Yes but they could develop further and just continue what VW start.. Just my thoughts.. It doesn't matter, I think that they will no come in top league for at least for a while. They said it a couple of times already. It's too expensive for them and no point if they keep wining titles in WRC2 year after year.

But keep in mind that VW is entering the R5 category. From a financial point of view there's no point to pour money into two competing development teams (who are competing with each other) in the same corporation.

[ESTR]

But keep in mind that VW is entering the R5 category. From a financial point of view there's no point to pour money into two competing development teams (who are competing with each other) in the same corporation.

VW will not enter in WRC2 with factory backing team. Maybe just couple of events but not the championship - This is for customers only.

[RS]

I smell a green light for the WRC car (2019-2020) but it's just my feeling in the moment...

Also Kopecky went back on his threat to walk. Must be an incentive for that.

[Franky]

VW will not enter in WRC2 with factory backing team. Maybe just couple of events but not the championship - This is for customers only.

No one in the financial department cares about that.

[Mirek]

They said it a couple of times already. It's too expensive for them and no point if they keep wining titles in WRC2 year after year.

I am not aware they said something like that. Škoda is in perfect financial situation, it has a lot of money now. They have record braking numbers every successing month and the trend is still growing. In my opinion if they ever want to do WRC than it's now when they have more than enough money to spend and nothing else to prove in the second league.

Just to support the claim - for first 3/4 of 2017 they had operational profit 1,2 billion Euro (+28%) and the average profit from one car 10% which was second highest in the whole VAG behind Porsche (ahead of Audi).

Besides that their direct rivals on the market are nearly all in WRC...

[Simmi]

Hope you're right Mirek. Again there were quotes earlier this year about Jouhki wanting to place Kalle somewhere where he could run a WRC for testing/experience. He can't do that at Skoda, but like you say maybe they like the look of the manufacturer long term. Plus Skoda do like to market their WRC success and heritage it seems.

Seems like a perfect time. Probably too good to be true but I'd love to see it.

[pantealex]

Kalle Rovanperä has multiple years contract says Jouhki.

[RS]

Kalle Rovanperä has multiple years contract says Jouhki.

Although contracts may be broken, i can't imagine he would sign up for that long without the prospect of a World Rally Car on the horizon.

Fabia4 road car should be due around 2020

[Tarmop]

He is 17 and has a lot to learn, multiple years can mean just 2...

[Tarmop]

No one in the financial department cares about that.

On the contrary, different teams with different opportunities, which would suit more drivers...who bring more money. Otherwise we wouldn`t have this project, because of the financial department.

[SubaruNorway]

Didn't Pontus drive the WRC Fiesta when he was under contract with Skoda?

[Rally Power]

Skoda totally deserves to be on the major series and we all hope for it since VW pull out; if they manage to do it from 2019 it’ll be great for the WRC and for Rovanpera, besides being Jouhki’s most amazing deal ever. Fingers crossed!

[Gregor-y]

I smell a green light for the WRC car (2019-2020) but it's just my feeling in the moment...

I only hope it gets the backing VW gave the Polo. My memory of Skoda in the WRC are all short clips of an Octavia crashing or catching fire on the day-end recaps.

[RS]

Skoda totally deserves to be on the major series and we all hope for it since VW pull out; if they manage to do it from 2019 it’ll be great for the WRC and for Rovanpera, besides being Jouhki’s most amazing deal ever. Fingers crossed!

Would be very surprised if it happens for 2019.. S2000 and R5 I think tested for much longer and they would want to coincide it with new road car.

[Munkvy]

So does anyone know for sure which Skoda drivers will do what? I wonder if Kalle is looking at the WRC2 title to prove his ability, so that he can get into a WRC drive? Although I imagine that he will have to perform extremely well to have a chance against Pontus and Jan - if they are given enough events to be competitive across the championship that is!

[Mirek]

I only hope it gets the backing VW gave the Polo. My memory of Skoda in the WRC are all short clips of an Octavia crashing or catching fire on the day-end recaps.

Sir, they jumped from super simple carburettor-equipped 1300ccm Favorit gr.A into WRC in only 5 years. If You consider the conditions in which Octavia WRC was born (with help from Dave Richards and Prodrive) than the Octavia can't be seen as a fail (at least for me it was not). What was true fail was Fabia WRC in 2004-2005 due to completely messed-up team management.

Anyway the reborn team from 2009 is completely different and moreover today there is way more money than that time. The company is roughly three times larger, it has cca 2000+ R&D staff and is overall on a completely different level in all aspects. Plus I think that the results of Fabia S2000 and R5 speak for themselves.

For Your information - Polo WRC was based on Fabia S2000 not vice versa.

[Gregor-y]

My memories are vivid of that time because it's when I started following rallies.

I loved watching them take over the IRC and the R5s are great. The 1300cc cars have their own special history but the first decade of the 20th century was not kind. If they've got the money it'll be great. I think it was a mistake branding the WRC car as a Polo in the first place given Skoda's history. VW is too fickle as their pull-out illustrated.

[dimviii]

"It comes with a price tag of $240,000 for the arrive and drive aspect of it and then you need to get yourself over there and accommodation and all of that. The whole package is worth around $320,000 to do the championship which is a lot of money but there is a lot involved in it.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rallying/news/article.cfm?c_id=297&objectid=11954363

[BleAivano]

Pontus Tidemand stays with Skoda in WRC2. http://www.pontustidemand.se/sv/tidemand-continues-with-skoda/

[RS]

So does anyone know for sure which Skoda drivers will do what?

This is Skoda, we'll probably find out when the entry lists come out.

[AnttiL]

So does anyone know for sure which Skoda drivers will do what?

Rovanperä does Mexico, Argentina, Finland, Wales and Spain. Also MC and TDC on a private car. Nordgren and Rovanperä will split the APRC season. Tidemand hints slightly he has other plans for the end part of the season.

[electroliquid]

No Australia for Kalle? He did well there this year :)

[BigWorm]

Didn't Pontus drive the WRC Fiesta when he was under contract with Skoda?

No. Last time he drove a Fiesta WRC was 2014 and he joined Skoda 2015.

[Munkvy]

No Australia for Kalle? He did well there this year :)

I am not so sure about that, what was there to compare to? And he did have to Rally2...

[electroliquid]

I am not so sure about that, what was there to compare to? And he did have to Rally2...

I meant that partly as a joke, as he win WRC2 ;) Win is win, you know...

[Tarmop]

This year there will be probably more WRC2 competitiors with the same thought, i think also in Mexico and Argentina.

[AnttiL]

Now there's no more mandatory events so hopefully it means there will be more competition in every event. Now half of everyone's season was fixed to the mandatory events so it was quite easy to pick events with not much opposition.

[electroliquid]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/12/13/kehrt-skoda-in-die-wrc-zurueck/ Some rumours about Škoda and WRC

[Mirek]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2017/12/13/kehrt-skoda-in-die-wrc-zurueck/ Some rumours about Škoda and WRC

You don't build a brand new large motorsport facility if you don't have some serious long time plans. Good.

[ESTR]

https://icdn-2.motor1.com/images/mgl/9Vgxg/s1/2018-skoda-kodiaq-wrc.jpg

maybe this will be real after all.

[Tarmop]

Oh please, not that hideous SUV (in racing context, apart from Dakar).

[ESTR]

Oh please, not that hideous SUV (in racing context, apart from Dakar).

You don't know what types of cars will be used in years, my bet is on SUV-s. On the roads there are more and more thee things. So on marketing point is total sense. Yes it's stupid but hey stupid is also electric technology but it can't be avoided if the world will turn into that direction.

If they will come back that would be awesome, no matter what car they will be using. What matters is that there will be at least 3 new seats available (if everyone remains into the game). And (if) this will happen, Pontus, stay in the team!

[Tarmop]

Well, there were ideas about Mondeo, Passat, C5 and I40 WRC a few years ago...luckily they were abondened. SUVs are popular yes, but they sell themselves hopefully. In rally-mode, especially on tarmac, they would look really silly, like a small estate (another hard thing to bring that car down).

[the sniper]

When is a new or facelifted Fabia due?

[Andre Oliveira]

Love the idea of comeback to segment D. Big cars

[Mirek]

Love the idea of comeback to segment D. Big cars

FYI some of the biggest cars of it's era...

Audi Qattro S1 4,24 m
Mercedes SLC450 4,75 m
Focus WRC 06 4,36 m
Octavia WRC 4,51 m

Now modern stock cars of seg. D...

Opel Insignia 4,90 m
Ford Mondeo 4,87
Škoda Superb 4,86 m

Do You really want those huge things which are about as nimble as the London bus to compete on stages? Also consider that many of those cars are of about same width in stock configuration as the WRC limit or even wider...

[Andre Oliveira]

Biggest, more balance to turn :)

[ESTR]

Biggest, more balance to turn :)

But trickier in tight sections!

[Rallyper]

You don't build a brand new large motorsport facility if you don't have some serious long time plans. Good.

I was thinking around this when it was indicated that Tidemand would maybe stay at Skoda. Polo WRC or Fabia WRC, same, same. Would be fun and interesting!!

[Andre Oliveira]

“soon I hope we can announce Ford as the fourth (manufacter), but I don’t have the power to do that!”

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/ogier-fifth-wrc-title-the-most-satisfying-yet/

[AnttiL]

“soon I hope we can announce Ford as the fourth (manufacter), but I don’t have the power to do that!”

https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/news/rallying-news/wrc/ogier-fifth-wrc-title-the-most-satisfying-yet/

interesting punctuation (or lack of it), I would assume there's more emphasis on the words "I hope".

[Andre Oliveira]

Ford Performance M-Sport WRT sounds good

[AL14]

"Sometimes I have the feeling French people don’t realise this and it becomes normal that the French is winning".

Lol this man has a big problem with how people see him.
Don't worry Seb we are all aware you are a great driver. Give your ego a break sometimes.

[AnttiL]

I think there's a point, especially myself being a Finn, we were used to winning all the time and now we're outragous for not being able to even get to the top 3, although we should be happy for still having the second most championships.

[Rallyper]

You don't build a brand new large motorsport facility if you don't have some serious long time plans. Good.

I was thinking around this when it was indicated that Tidemand would maybe stay at Skoda. Polo WRC or Fabia WRC, same, same. Would be fun and interesting!!

[liposh]

For sure Skoda plans to start new project. That´s undisputable. So now just fingers crossed for WRC. All other possibilities (Dakar, WTCC, TCR) are weird.

[Arwel Davies]

It makes sense logically doesn't it. When VW Motorsport withdrew, it was forced upon them from the board to save face following dieselgate. They have developed the Polo R5 which now sits along side the Fabia R5 but no WRC team but to me, its clear that the VAG group want a team in the WRC. Now with Tidemand staying at Skoda "for now" as he said it strengthens my belief that there will be a VAG team back in the WRC by 2020. Question is, will it be VW or Skoda?

[Andre Oliveira]

"Sometimes I have the feeling French people don’t realise this and it becomes normal that the French is winning".

Lol this man has a big problem with how people see him.
Don't worry Seb we are all aware you are a great driver. Give your ego a break sometimes.

I think he said that frenchs don’t give those dominance the right credit.

[AnttiL]

Now with Tidemand staying at Skoda "for now" as he said

Well, to me it sounded like Tidemand is going to change colors before the end of the season.


Pontus Tidemand is all set to continue the outstanding cooperation with SKODA Motorsport and begins 2018 behind the wheel of their unbeatable Fabia R5.

I’m happy and grateful to continue a while longer as a works driver for SKODA

Pontus and his co-driver Jonas Andersson start their 2018 season together with the Czech team.

We are working hard on the next step so we will see what happens during the upcoming year, but for now we are fully focused on the winter season.
http://www.pontustidemand.se/tidemand-continues-with-skoda/

but yeah, I may be reading into it...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ford Performance M-Sport WRT sounds good

They'll need a bigger car to fit that name on it ! ;)

[er88]

He will probably do events in the Polo R5 when it's ready.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Mirek]

He will probably do events in the Polo R5 when it's ready.

My thoughts exactly.

[dupanton]

"Sometimes I have the feeling French people don’t realise this and it becomes normal that the French is winning".

Lol this man has a big problem with how people see him.
Don't worry Seb we are all aware you are a great driver. Give your ego a break sometimes.

Problem is that the French don't care about Ogier. They don't like him at all. Loeb is still their god.

[Andre Oliveira]

1. Ogier gone against Loeb
2. He don’t drives french make

[Watson]

I'm partly French but I don't get that. They are only happy if it's a French driver in a French car. I think that's still the biggest reason Citroen turned down Mikkelsen and are holding on to Lefebvre eventhough he's clearly not delivering.

[Gregor-y]

Guy Fréquelin should be the real hero for French rallying. Developing a great car while cultivating great local talent is something I don't think any other team has managed to do.

[RS]

You don't build a brand new large motorsport facility if you don't have some serious long time plans. Good.

Where will this new facility be?

Shame to leave the old traditional premises on the one hand but it was rather small.

[electroliquid]

I'm partly French but I don't get that. They are only happy if it's a French driver in a French car. I think that's still the biggest reason Citroen turned down Mikkelsen and are holding on to Lefebvre eventhough he's clearly not delivering.

About Lefebvre is very very plausible, but Citroen need more/better scouts, while another French guy, Camilli driving for M-Sport. Malcolm believed in him, while Citroen doesn't, even he is French.

[AnttiL]

I'm partly French but I don't get that. They are only happy if it's a French driver in a French car. I think that's still the biggest reason Citroen turned down Mikkelsen and are holding on to Lefebvre eventhough he's clearly not delivering.

I believe Mikkelsen just got a better offer from Hyundai, he was talking to them all along and almost joined the team in the spring when he did that test. Also, Hyundai being a better car must have affected his choice, as did the offer to let him drive already the three last events of the season and a full 2018.

[Watson]

About Lefebvre is very very plausible, but Citroen need more/better scouts, while another French guy, Camilli driving for M-Sport. Malcolm believed in him, while Citroen doesn't, even he is French.

Someone here once said that Camilli is at M-Sport because he brings funds from some French sport federation. I really hope he doesn't play a part in M-Sport's third WRC car. He is so mediocre at best. Even in the WRC2 he got usually beaten by much younger drivers.


I believe Mikkelsen just got a better offer from Hyundai, he was talking to them all along and almost joined the team in the spring when he did that test. Also, Hyundai being a better car must have affected his choice, as was the offer to let him drive already the three last events of the season and a full 2018.

Well fair enough but Citroen's management was surely aware of that. Hyundai is a much more competitive package so they should've known that they need to put in a very juicy offer.

[AnttiL]

Someone here once said that Camilli is at M-Sport because he brings funds from some French sport federation.

Seems like everyone knows always something about Camilli's fundings and every time it's a different story. The latest rumor I heard was that he's struggling to get a budget for Monte Carlo.


I really hope he doesn't play a part in M-Sport's third WRC car. He is so mediocre at best. Even in the WRC2 he got usually beaten by much younger drivers.
But in the end he got more WRC2 points than all the younger drivers except Tidemand...he surely improved towards the end of the season, getting many good drives where he wasn't going for WRC2 points (Sardegna, Finland and Catalunya).

It's actually interesting that the biggest screw ups he made were in Monte Carlo and Tour de Corse, which everyone expects to be his strongest rallies

[Watson]

But in the end he got more WRC2 points than all the younger drivers except Tidemand...he surely improved towards the end of the season, getting many good drives where he wasn't going for WRC2 points (Sardegna, Finland and Catalunya).

It's actually interesting that the biggest screw ups he made were in Monte Carlo and Tour de Corse, which everyone expects to be his strongest rallies

Agreed but I think there is a much better driver and infinatly more potential in Suninen. It would also be wise to give him a lot of seat time to make an impression on having faith in him. Then there is Østberg who I think is far more solid and already has a lot of experience in the '17 spec Fiesta. I guess there is an argument for giving Camilli a run out in Monte, Corsica, Germany and Spain as asphalt are the weakpoints of both Suninen and Østberg. But even then I suggest giving Teemu a fourth car would be wise as he needs to get experience there eventually.

[tomhlord]

All this speculation over a third M-Sport car. Who has the most potential, who did the best in WRC2. For the third car, whoever finds the biggest sponsor, gets the drive. Simple.

[AnttiL]

Agreed but I think there is a much better driver and infinatly more potential in Suninen.

I agree as well, but I always want to set the facts straight :)



Then there is Østberg
When Østberg announced a while ago he might be a part of a works team I instantly thought of him being a replacement to Ogier in case of Ogier would retire, and my theory seems confirmed now that he's planning on a WRC2 campaign.

[AnttiL]

All this speculation over a third M-Sport car. Who has the most potential, who did the best in WRC2. For the third car, whoever finds the biggest sponsor, gets the drive. Simple.

Not all that simple, but still a major part in the game.

[tomhlord]

Problem is that the French don't care about Ogier. They don't like him at all. Loeb is still their god.

A shame. Ogier would need to win a title in a Citroen for them to care.

[Simmi]

Seems like everyone knows always something about Camilli's fundings and every time it's a different story. The latest rumor I heard was that he's struggling to get a budget for Monte Carlo.


But in the end he got more WRC2 points than all the younger drivers except Tidemand...he surely improved towards the end of the season, getting many good drives where he wasn't going for WRC2 points (Sardegna, Finland and Catalunya).

It's actually interesting that the biggest screw ups he made were in Monte Carlo and Tour de Corse, which everyone expects to be his strongest rallies

I'd like to see Camilli get a chance in the '17 car, just to see how he has progressed like you say. He's definitely on a decent level. Behind Suninen and Tidemand he's the guy I'd like to see in the car. Again though I think his contract with M-Sport ends Dec 31st - so they aren't obligated to run him.

[AnttiL]

I'd like to see Camilli get a chance in the '17 car, just to see how he has progressed like you say. He's definitely on a decent level. Behind Suninen and Tidemand he's the guy I'd like to see in the car. Again though I think his contract with M-Sport ends Dec 31st - so they aren't obligated to run him.

https://rallysportmag.com/shared-wrc-car-likely-m-sport-2018/


According to Millener, Eric Camilli is odds on to compete at the sport’s top level as well – probably alongside Suninen in a shared car.

He explained that the team at M-Sport have already put two years into Camilli, and do not want the time and money spent to go to waste.

[Rallyper]

But in the end he got more WRC2 points than all the younger drivers except Tidemand...he surely improved towards the end of the season, getting many good drives where he wasn't going for WRC2 points (Sardegna, Finland and Catalunya).

It's actually interesting that the biggest screw ups he made were in Monte Carlo and Tour de Corse, which everyone expects to be his strongest rallies

Makes me think he can´t handle the pressure put on his shoulders. Easier to make good drives when you´re not driving for important points.
I really do hope there´s some sense in the rumours of Skoda WRC. Not for Camilli but for other good drivers.

[Watson]

Makes me think he can´t handle the pressure put on his shoulders. Easier to make good drives when you´re not driving for important points.
I really do hope there´s some sense in the rumours of Skoda WRC. Not for Camilli but for other good drivers.

I'm thinking the same thing. There are a lot of exciting drivers around and to fit them all it would take abother team. Trouble is I think with five teams there is always going to be one team that is gonna look pretty bad and might pull the plug. Already now I don't know what would happen if Citroen can't manage to make amends to the C3, or Hyundai HQ might get impatient if they won't start winning titles soon. Then again it's good to know that there are backup options around.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

A shame. Ogier would need to win a title in a Citroen for them to care.

Ogier has gained a huge number of new fans from everywhere in 2017. Not just for winning the Title with a non-factory team but also with his more humble and friendly approach.

[EstWRC]

David Evans thoughts about Mahonens ridiculous idea https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/columns/mahonen-was-right-but-also-wrong/

[spiderem]

Ogier has gained a huge number of new fans from everywhere in 2017. Not just for winning the Title with a non-factory team but also with his more humble and friendly approach.

And to add, Neuville on the other hand turned out to be a crying baby and lost few fans in my opinion. Ogier remains the same, pressure or not. Neuville seems a lot more fragile...

[Franky]

David Evans thoughts about Mahonens ridiculous idea https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/columns/mahonen-was-right-but-also-wrong/

Can't remember when was the last time I liked reading what he was writing

[janvanvurpa]

Can't remember when was the last time I liked reading what he was writing

Well he makes a lot of seriously clear points:
Standardisation is absolutely necessary in areas like the results service and the tracking of the cars – David Richards was absolutely right about that in the late Nineties – but the standardisation and centralisation of routes is absolutely not necessary. David Richards was absolutely wrong about that in the late Nineties.
cookie cutter events and only thing the background is is scene props? Paaaaaska.

This is the absolute central thing in all racing, its been said sop many times by people doing the sport and analytic fans:

And what does every fan love? Unpredictability.


I think we know that...and what has been the result of a lack of unpredictabilty.....interest waning...and in place of genuine interest?
"Promotion" . made for TV "drama"....

People say "We can't go back to...."..."The cars are too fragile"

The chosen roads, the chosen formats the central service (and the bizarre reset button of "Super-rally" has allowed that...)

He continued:
One of the primary appeals of rallying is the simple fact that it’s not bound by the confines of a circuit. It’s bound by nothing but our imagination (and a degree of commercial realism).
It saddened me to hear Mahonen castigating Rally GB for its long days and lack of time in service. And I genuinely beg to differ when Jarmo talks about service being the place for the show.

That last bit..Good god...if that's the case, why bother with the stages?

This part needs to be chiseled into the foreheads of all the media and promotion fools:
For me, the show is, and always will be, in the stages.

[Franky]

Sorry John, meant it in a positive way this time. I do realise now that my post can be read both ways.

[janvanvurpa]

Sorry John, meant it in a positive way this time. I do realise now that my post can be read both ways.

That's OK I was only a little confused, but that's normal--especially reading bureaucrater opinions on WRC--or rally in general...
Mainly I read the link..
Of course its so crazy you have to wonder was Mahonen clear? Or mildly drunk? Is he serious about "Jarmo talks about service being the place for the show." ???

[BigWorm]

Östberg on Twitter: Travelling from Gardermoen �� to Gatwick �� #business #work #meetings

On his way to meet Malcolm maybe?

[vino_93]

I'm partly French but I don't get that. They are only happy if it's a French driver in a French car. I think that's still the biggest reason Citroen turned down Mikkelsen and are holding on to Lefebvre eventhough he's clearly not delivering.
For me you're wong. Ogier lack of popularity is due to his fight with Loeb mainly, and then to who he is (arrogant, unfriendly, ...). Nobody cares about the manufacturarer.
But things are changing now. Fight with Loeb is far away. He received to win with two manufacturarers, moreover with "small" M-Sport. Media payed more attention to him at the end of this season.


But I'm not that Citroën winning with and outsider would have specific media attention. Fernando Alonso was very popular during his Renault era - still is - but that was formula 1. WRC has less attention and top french contenders. So I guess Meeke, Breen or anyone else World Champion with Citroën wouldn't get as much attention. Only to ask why Ogier isn't in.

[Gregor-y]

For me you're wong. Ogier lack of popularity is due to his fight with Loeb mainly, and then to who he is (arrogant, unfriendly, ...). Nobody cares about the manufacturarer.
But things are changing now. Fight with Loeb is far away. He received to win with two manufacturarers, moreover with "small" M-Sport. Media payed more attention to him at the end of this season.

Over the last thirty years did French fans ignore Auriol and Delecour? Ragnotti and Loeb were exceptional since they stayed with one (and a French) manufacturer for their careers, but that alone wouldn't explain Ogier's lack of popularity, so I think it was a result of fighting with Loeb at Citroen.

And then there's Panizzi...

[EstWRC]

i wonder if there will be any livery changes and if we will see them before the season launch on autosport show on 11th January...although i think they wont change much, maybe m-sport does surprise again with a new one? they have always done that....i hope Toyota improves its livery, they have by faaar the worst one, so messy and that microsoft logo is just out of place. Looks a lot better in plain white testing version.

[Zeakiwi]

Driving Mikkelsen's i20 to the supermarket in Sydney, Aus - yawn
http://www.caradvice.com.au/606796/driving-a-wrc-race-car-through-sydney/

[GravelBen]

Driving Mikkelsen's i20 to the supermarket in Sydney, Aus - yawn
http://www.caradvice.com.au/606796/driving-a-wrc-race-car-through-sydney/

They took Paddon's car through a mcdonalds drivethrough last year didn't they?

[RAS007]

Over the last thirty years did French fans ignore Auriol and Delecour? Ragnotti and Loeb were exceptional since they stayed with one (and a French) manufacturer for their careers, but that alone wouldn't explain Ogier's lack of popularity, so I think it was a result of fighting with Loeb at Citroen.

And then there's Panizzi...


Panizzi was not very well liked.............by anyone really.

[spiderem]

Could it be that Ogier signed a lower deal than what he hoped knowing already something for 2019 (and having no other choices)? ie focus on keeping active for 2018 and have a go at the title but mainly preparing a "come back" with a manufacturer in 2019 (skoda...).

[er88]

Could it be that Ogier signed a lower deal than what he hoped knowing already something for 2019 (and having no other choices)? ie focus on keeping active for 2018 and have a go at the title but mainly preparing a "come back" with a manufacturer in 2019 (skoda...).Possible that Hyundai move for him in 2019 when Sordo and Paddons contracts expire, especially if they go yet another year without a championship win. Can't see Seb at Toyota now at all and if Ford haven't returned as a full manufacturer after this year, I doubt they'll come back next year. Also think 2019 is too early for a Skoda entry. 2020 would seem most likely so they can have ample time to test the car and make sure it's ready (unless they've already been developing a wrc car behind the scenes that nobody knows about).

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Tarmop]

New cars from 2020. I doubt that Škoda would come earlier than that. But is that deal lower...salary should be ok, apart from Toyota, others couldn`t afford him, except maybe already overcrowded Hyundai, which why we know why that didn`t happen. They got more tech. support and money from Ford and developing should continue properly...should be ok.

[rallyfiend]

This current formula of cars are fixed for 5 years, not till 2020.

[Tarmop]

This current formula of cars are fixed for 5 years, not till 2020.

"The World Motor Sport Council also approved new technical and homologation requirements for the 2017-2019 World Rally Championship Cars."

So what does that mean? Plus i also remember that Toyota also aims for a homologation special Yaris to build a new car from in 2019/2020.

[Simmi]

I'm sure it will be published online soon but the big Motorsport News story today was that Chile is close to agreeing terms to join the WRC calendar in 2019. Candidate rally to run just before Argentina next year. Forest-based with nice smooth gravel roads.

Japan also pushing for inclusion in 2019. Croatia seems to be off the table now as they can't make a date work.

More importantly there are new quotes from Ciesla reiterating that we may end up with shorter events, so we can move towards a 15 or 16 round championship in the future.

[RICARDO75]

I'm sure it will be published online soon but the big Motorsport News story today was that Chile is close to agreeing terms to join the WRC calendar in 2019. Candidate rally to run just before Argentina next year. Forest-based with nice smooth gravel roads.

Japan also pushing for inclusion in 2019. Croatia seems to be off the table now as they can't make a date work.

More importantly there are new quotes from Ciesla reiterating that we may end up with shorter events, so we can move towards a 15 or 16 round championship in the future.

At least in Chile, they have more local drivers to compete than in Mexico. If Chile is part of 2019 calendar, Mexico will have to leave. Or not?

[marcusmx]

At least in Chile, they have more local drivers to compete than in Mexico. If Chile is part of 2019 calendar, Mexico will have to leave. Or not?

Well, in other years, it could be argued that Mexico was an important market for the brands involved in the WRC, but now, in the case of Ford, the new Fiesta will no longer be sold in North America and Hyundai does not sell the i20 either, Citroën does not exists in North America, the only one that sells here is the Toyota Yaris.

[AndyRAC]

I'm sure it will be published online soon but the big Motorsport News story today was that Chile is close to agreeing terms to join the WRC calendar in 2019. Candidate rally to run just before Argentina next year. Forest-based with nice smooth gravel roads.

Japan also pushing for inclusion in 2019. Croatia seems to be off the table now as they can't make a date work.

More importantly there are new quotes from Ciesla reiterating that we may end up with shorter events, so we can move towards a 15 or 16 round championship in the future.

Er, what about NZ. They seem determined that they're not going there.....

As for Ciesla, hasn't he learnt from the previous promoter? 15/16 short identikit events isn't the answer. That's a huge financial burden for the teams - and what is the real benefit? The last time we had that many events, look what happened.

Far better to have 8-10 proper, well promoted EVENTS that completely sell the sport. But that doesn't suit their aims....

[ESTR]

If they want new and fresh events in calendar make a few rotate events available, like Australia-New Zealand, Argentina-Chile, Poland-Turkey, Sardegna-Acropolis,... And play smart with final event in Europe.

I'm sure that Citroen will not even be at final probably, they are so poor.

[sonnybobiche]

...what is the point of having more, but shorter, rallies? The cost to the teams is for all intents and purposes the same whether the rally runs for a day or a week. Whose money are they saving? The local organizers'? It's a bunch of different groups spread around the world, not one big pool of money. If they're willing to host a rally have them host a proper rally, not a rally sprint.

This Ciesla guy, I've never liked him. I'm obviously not an insider or anything, but I have a feeling that he just doesn't get it.

[AnttiL]

The cost to the teams is for all intents and purposes the same whether the rally runs for a day or a week.

Not really, but it's way more expensive to do two two-day rallies than one four-day rally.

[Andre Oliveira]

@HartusvuoriWRC:

King @GronholmM says he would drive @RallySweden 2018 if Tommi would offer him a @TGR_WRC car. Marcus turns 50 years on Feb 5th, just before the event.

Would you like to see the old champ back?

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9987838

Interesting

[Hartusvuori]

Interesting

This was rumoured already during Rally Finland when Marcus did those few VIP runs in Yaris WRC. Marcus is known to be quite enigmatic in his plans, and what he says in the Finnish interview is that if Tommi would give him a car as a present, sure he'd drive it in Sweden. It's not said in very serious way, but still there might lie some true interest there.

[BigWorm]

http://www.autohebdo.fr/wrc/actualites/stephane-lefebvre-il-faut-savoir-reculer-pour-mieux-rebondir-191016.html

Lefebvre aims to bounce back in WRC2. Let's hope the C3 R5 is better than the DS3 R5...

[pantealex]

For those who love number trivia:

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/december-2017/wrc-season-in-stats/page/5088--12-12-.html

[RS]

Merry Christmas from Skoda: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CaEQY5N0JPQ

[Eli]

Merry Christmas from Skoda: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CaEQY5N0JPQ

Very nice.

[wwbroe]

Merry Christmas from Skoda: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CaEQY5N0JPQ

Great stuff by Skoda:D

[jacko]

Ford official back in the WRC!

M-Sport Ford World Rally Team (Ford Fiesta WRC)
Hyundai Shell Mobis World Rally Team (Hyundai I20 Coupe WRC)
Toyota Gazoo Racing WRT (Toyota Yaris WRC)
Citroën Total Abu Dhabi WRT (Citroën C3 WRC)

[dimviii]

Camillis interview
https://planeterallyeactus.wordpress.com/2017/12/23/interview-eric-camilli/

[Ralph-Mario]

Merry Christmas from Skoda: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CaEQY5N0JPQ

That seems very familiar to me, at that time only with Ogier in the Polo in Monte Carlo.
Apparently, on the way to the WRC, Skoda also received the marketing folder for the design plans for the Polo WRC :-)

[AnttiL]

Camillis interview
https://planeterallyeactus.wordpress.com/2017/12/23/interview-eric-camilli/

He says he's planning to do a mix of WRC and WRC2 with M-Sport. He also wants to see his supporters in Monte Carlo.

[AnttiL]

https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005502849.html

Let's go crazy once again.

Tommi Mäkinen says he wants rallies to have 250 kms max so a WRC car could do 2 events between full services. Would also help with remote events, the car shipped to another continent could do two events without a full service at headquarters. Also, he wants more action for rallying days, he does not like having 5 hours between a loop of 2-3 stages. He wants to cure that by cutting the length of the rallies from 3 to 2 days.

[PLuto]

They really want to kill the rallysport?

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes, they want

[the sniper]

Tommi must have spent too much time over Christmas in Mahonen sauna, drinking his Kool-Aid...

In a way, you've got to admire that even in successful times for the WRC, prominent figures in this sport are still dreaming up ways in which it can be undermined.

[AnttiL]

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9996617

Kalle Rovanperä probably doing Rally Deutschland, as he may be allowed to drive there. In that case they would skip Tour de Corse.

[denkimi]

https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005502849.html

Let's go crazy once again.

Tommi Mäkinen says he wants rallies to have 250 kms max so a WRC car could do 2 events between full services. Would also help with remote events, the car shipped to another continent could do two events without a full service at headquarters. Also, he wants more action for rallying days, he does not like having 5 hours between a loop of 2-3 stages. He wants to cure that by cutting the length of the rallies from 3 to 2 days.
making it shorter in time seems like a sensible thing. monte is 4 days, with less kilometers per day than on most small local rally's. they could do that on 2 days.

but i don't understand what mäkinen is trying to accomplish with shorter rally's. the works teams will still rebuild the car after each rally, and the privateers will still only rebuild it as much as their budget allows them.

[tc10a]

They really want to kill the rallysport?

Is the standard ERC Format killing the rallysport? No, but those ideas are not much different.

Shakedown and 2 full days of 250 km stages without sometimes 5-6 hours between re runs of stages sounds not too bad. Sunday is mostly boring and useless. If this would enable to add some more rounds, why not.

[tommeke_B]

If they cut the sunday leg, the last loop of saturday will be boring... So then they can shorten it again to 1,5 days... David Richards once said in an interview: "The cost of competing at the top is determined by the teams that invests the biggest amount of money in it, not by the sport itself." I think that's something people from FIA should think about.

[Barreis]

Rally Finland was only two days some years ago. also MC rallye with four days is too much for regular viewer (not for me/us who enjoy this sport more then average follower)

[seb_sh]

He has a point; I don't like days with long breaks and small number of competitive kilometres. In the age of the internet the action can be more focused because it's easier to follow so I wouldn't mind more concentrated rallies - long days with more time spent racing and on proper stages. Also they could keep the endurance aspect by providing only minimal service during a day for example (only tyre change or no more full service at mid day). In the end the sport has to evolve in order to grow and stay relevant, going back to the "old days" when "everything was better" won't solve anything, but what is important is they find a good format that takes the core traits of rally and brings them up to date.

[dimviii]

https://sportowefakty.wp.pl/formula-1/728773/toyota-zainteresowana-powrotem-kimiego-raikkonena-do-wrc

[Allez Andruet]

https://sportowefakty.wp.pl/formula-1/728773/toyota-zainteresowana-powrotem-kimiego-raikkonena-do-wrc

It's probably taken from a Finnish article, where Tommi was asked if he'd be interested in working with Kimi, if he quits F1 after 2018 and wants to WRC another try. Tommi said that sure, but please don't write that Räikkönen is joining TGR just yet (and laughed).

[NickRally]

https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005502849.html

Let's go crazy once again.

Tommi Mäkinen says he wants rallies to have 250 kms max so a WRC car could do 2 events between full services. Would also help with remote events, the car shipped to another continent could do two events without a full service at headquarters. Also, he wants more action for rallying days, he does not like having 5 hours between a loop of 2-3 stages. He wants to cure that by cutting the length of the rallies from 3 to 2 days.

Or he can ask his engineers to extend the full service interval from 500km to 650km :)

[dimviii]

Karlip
��
‏


@Karlip1

INTERVIEW - Tänak to @errsport: "(Asked about not wanting to be a 'Forever 2nd driver') Respect to @sebogier, he still is a 5-time world champion and he has to have a priority. I accepted it this year but it can't be like this forever."

Michel V.
‏@rockollector
At least the difference in Toyota is they have more budget to fit new parts on all the cars maybe, or at least Lat - Tan, but Latvala has made it clear he's the number one in the team. I just hope everyone gets treated equal

@Karlip1
INTERVIEW - Tänak to @errsport: "I'm a bit jealous of Martin Järveoja - he sat into the car and started getting podiums - I wish it came that easy for me! He's the opposite of me - likes to sleep a lot and is very calm - maybe too calm."

INTERVIEW - Tänak to @errsport: "(About the 1-2 driver lineup in @msport this year)When we found upgrades for the car then, because of the budget, the parts were fitted onto Ogier's car first. But - no hard feelings @sebogier!"

NTERVIEW - Tänak to @errsport: "Maybe the criticism (in 2012-2013) was important for me to get back in line with things. (2017) Ogier brought a lot of excitement to @MSportLtd and he stimulated the whole team. His arrival opened up doors locked behind the budget."

[Rally Power]

Is the standard ERC Format killing the rallysport? No, but those ideas are not much different.
Shakedown and 2 full days of 250 km stages without sometimes 5-6 hours between re runs of stages sounds not too bad. Sunday is mostly boring and useless. If this would enable to add some more rounds, why not.

Shouldn’t there be a difference between ERC and WRC events?

250 stage kms in 2 days is 125 kms per day, which is the same we’re getting nowadays on Friday and Saturday WRC legs. Dumping Sunday’s leg will suddenly make events more interesting to follow?

If they want to make exciting 2 day events, they must keep at least 300 to 350 stage kms, increasing each day competitive driving hours; never the opposite. Still, heritage events like MC, GB or ARG (plus NZ) must always be over 2 days and 350 kms.

Anyway, with cars reliability levels rising each day, it’s strange to hear all this nonsense about the need to quit endurance rally spirit (or what is left of it).

[rallyfiend]

It's reasonably well-known within the service park that TMR have have to spend far, far more than expected amounts of money rebuilding their cars after every (gravel) event.

total strip downs, with new floors etc to each chassis.

Combined with the logistical challenge of being based in the middle of nowhere in Finland, it's made it a considerable challenge.

This is Tommi just pushing a self-interested wheelbarrow. Maybe the new Estonian base will help.

although that in itself is proving somewhat of an internal challenge. It's believed to be one of the reasons Lehtinen left the team.

[pantealex]

It's reasonably well-known within the service park that TMR have have to spend far, far more than expected amounts of money rebuilding their cars after every (gravel) event.

total strip downs, with new floors etc to each chassis.

Combined with the logistical challenge of being based in the middle of nowhere in Finland, it's made it a considerable challenge.

This is Tommi just pushing a self-interested wheelbarrow. Maybe the new Estonian base will help.

although that in itself is proving somewhat of an internal challenge. It's believed to be one of the reasons Lehtinen left the team.

Mainly true.

M-Sport is even more middle of nowhere, how does Malcolm handle rebuilds?

[Andre Oliveira]

Homologation joker:

C3 transmission and bodywork
Fiesta transmission x2 and bodywork
Yaris engine (november)
i20 engine

[Watson]

Homologation joker:

C3 transmission and bodywork
Fiesta transmission x2 and bodywork
Yaris engine (november)
i20 engine
That's from Monte onwards?

[Andre Oliveira]

Homologation was in december so it can be added to MC yes

[EstWRC]

so Toyota didnt homologate that new front then? sorry im stupid as hell about this topic.

[Andre Oliveira]

Toyota homologated body work in october. Could be that

[Alex009]

Toyota homologated body work in october. Could be that

Can you tell all homologated parts for all cars made after monte 2017? How many "jokers" teams could have? And how often and when they can do new homologation?

[nafpaktos]

It's reasonably well-known within the service park that TMR have have to spend far, far more than expected amounts of money rebuilding their cars after every (gravel) event.
. Why TMR especially?

[rallyfiend]

Mainly true.

M-Sport is even more middle of nowhere, how does Malcolm handle rebuilds?

It would seem that the Fiesta stands up better to the rigours of a WRC event, and does not need anywhere near as the level of rebuild that the Yaris does.

Perhaps in a cost-sensitive environment like M-Sport (Mr Wilson did not become as wealthy as he is by giving away money...), this was given a greater emphasis in the design phase of the car, as opposed to the hugely time-sensitive environment of TMR?

[nafpaktos]

then it's tommi's problem.the sport must not be fucked in favor of tommi.

[er88]

No wonder Makinen is crying about shortening WRC events. LOL. Should've just built a more robust and reliable car, instead of wanting the whole wrc to change to suit his cars limitations

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[Jarek Z]

Ott Tänak was chosen Sportsman of the Year 2017 in Estonia. Congratulations!!! :)
https://www.facebook.com/otttanakfanpage/photos/pcb.1505381202894277/1505375689561495/?type=3&theater
https://twitter.com/OttTanak/status/946803203517173767

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSO3ihPWsAIOfj8.jpg:small

[Barreis]

about Chile and WRC...

[AndyRAC]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/133712/chile-close-to-securing-wrc-deal

Hmm, I think it might be a good addition - but now 14 events; that close to breaking point regards budgets. (And we know the teams love to complain about cutting costs) And they still won't address the massive bias in favour of gravel....surely Tarmac is more 'Road relevant' for the Manufacturers (sorry to use that dreaded term.)

[ESTR]

That Ciesla... He don't need another tarmac rally.. What he think he is god or what. 13 events. 2 tarmac events 2 mixed events and rest gravel and snow. Well I would rather see that there is another tarmac wherever in the world. This is just stupid... Teams will probably send only two cars or not showing at all there of the costs...

[Eli]

That Ciesla... He don't need another tarmac rally.. What he think he is god or what. 13 events. 2 tarmac events 2 mixed events and rest gravel and snow. Well I would rather see that there is another tarmac wherever in the world. This is just stupid... Teams will probably send only two cars or not showing at all there of the costs...

He isn't going home any time soon is he? Anyhow, a good mix would be imho, 4 proper tarmac events (maybe 5 seeing Monte isn't what you call a normal tarmac rally), another snow maybe 2 if possible & the rest on gravel.

[pantealex]

Many seems to forgot that many countries and continents have no tarmac events, like Finland or Africa. (even less with snow of course but that´s another story...)
Tarmac is mostly middle-south europeans thing and yes some of those are great and suitable for WRC

If we add more tarmac events, those will be in europe, so then we must drop some european gravel events...
Portugal? Never!
Sardinia? Maybe
Finland? Never ever!
Wales? Never!
Turkey? Poland? Acropolis?

Planned China was on tarmac.
New Zealand, Middle-Eeast and Africa will be gravel.

How to make space for those tarmac events?

I´m ready to drop Mexico/Argentina for Chile because those have bad entry, 60 FIA-cars should be minimum (Chile will be under, I know)

[Eli]

Many seems to forgot that many countries and continents have no tarmac events, like Finland or Africa. (even less with snow of course but that´s another story...)
Tarmac is mostly middle-south europeans thing and yes some of those are great and suitable for WRC

If we add more tarmac events, those will be in europe, so then we must drop some european gravel events...
Portugal? Never!
Sardinia? Maybe
Finland? Never ever!
Wales? Never!
Turkey? Poland? Acropolis?

Planned China was on tarmac.
New Zealand, Middle-Eeast and Africa will be gravel.

How to make space for those tarmac events?

I´m ready to drop Mexico/Argentina for Chile because those have bad entry, 60 FIA-cars should be minimum (Chile will be under, I know)

Ireland could be a tarmac event, Spain can go back to being a full tarmac event, you know what? you can go to Japan to have tarmac. It's as you said, all about preferences. I agree, I wouldn't remove Portugal, Finland or Wales, but I would remove Turkey & bring in a tarmac event instead & make Spain a full tarmac event once again and vwolla you have 5 events on the black stuff.

[AnttiL]

San Remo has also been a full tarmac rally, Portugal has had tarmac stages.

[Watson]

Bring back San Remo for Rally Italy, make Spain a full tarmac event again and locate Rally Japan in those glorious fast flowing mountain passes (meaning tarmac). Job done.

The calender has become awfully samey. The only gravel events that are special are Mexico because of the height, Finland because of the speed and Wales because of the weather.

Then you can argue for at least one event (gravel or asphalt) in South America, one in either NZ or Australia, one in Asia and if it was up to me, one in Africa.

[AnttiL]

http://www.rallit.fi/ogierilta-muutosehdotus-saantoihin-otti-kantaa-myos-kuumaan-perunaan/ (in Finnish)

Ogier wants to bring back qualifications. He also thinks that things have been taken out of context concerning the short stage issue. He says the long waits in the countryside could be spent at service marketing the sport and he doesn't think the multi-hour breaks within a day are good for the fans.

[mArvAlcao17]

Bring back San Remo for Rally Italy, make Spain a full tarmac event again and locate Rally Japan in those glorious fast flowing mountain passes (meaning tarmac). Job done.

The calender has become awfully samey. The only gravel events that are special are Mexico because of the height, Finland because of the speed and Wales because of the weather.

Then you can argue for at least one event (gravel or asphalt) in South America, one in either NZ or Australia, one in Asia and if it was up to me, one in Africa.

As i remember, there are previous thread which talking about San Remo. I forget what they said, but it doesn't sounds good (about financial maybe?)

[AndyRAC]

http://www.rallit.fi/ogierilta-muutosehdotus-saantoihin-otti-kantaa-myos-kuumaan-perunaan/ (in Finnish)

Ogier wants to bring back qualifications. He also thinks that things have been taken out of context concerning the short stage issue. He says the long waits in the countryside could be spent at service marketing the sport and he doesn't think the multi-hour breaks within a day are good for the fans.

He's not completely wrong. My issue with the current format and central service park is the gap in the middle of the day when nothing happens. 3/4 stages then a huge gap for liaison/ regroup/ tyre service, etc then the same 3/4 stages and a return to service/ parc ferme.

However, I'm not sure about the marketing the sport at the service park is what is needed. I'd prefer to see the cars in the stages more often.

[Watson]

I hear you Andy but I understant that they want to offer a lot of service park time to the public because that is one of the few things in the nature of the WRC that is more convenient to bring to people close to. In circuit racing the pits are reserved for the rich and famous.

[Rally Hokkaido]

The Autosport article mentioned about Japan, as well as Chile applying for a 2019 WRC Round. Here is a link to an article on Japan's Yomiuri Newspaper website.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/sports/etc/20171231-OYT1T50078.html?from=ytop_main9

I'll let someone try a computer translation of it, however the main points I can decipher are:
1/ There will be a Media Conference this month to announce the detailed plan
2/ Official application will be made this year to host a WRC round in September 2019.
3/ Location may be; in Aichi Prefecture (Toyota City!), in neighbouring Shizuoka Prefecture or even in Fukushima Prefecture

[AndyRAC]

I hear you Andy but I understant that they want to offer a lot of service park time to the public because that is one of the few things in the nature of the WRC that is more convenient to bring to people close to. In circuit racing the pits are reserved for the rich and famous.

Yes, I know - I just think they're misguided in their thinking.....(and it wouldn't be the first time) ;)

[Simmi]

All this talk of more emphasis on the service park is fine in part if fans can gain better access. Ok we arnt going back to servicing in pub car parks like in the old days however unless you are media or a corporate guest who has little or no real interest in being there then you will be behind the barriers and well away from the cars and drivers. Ive seen the village approach work in other sports however WRC is almost F1 in its attempts to exclude the real fans nowadays.

Have to agree. Been to a lot of service parks and they are mostly sh*te.

Not amazing access for fans like you say unless you've got a pass. Just rubbernecking at stationary cars basically. Drivers appear for a few seconds and are gone. Not exactly an abundance of VIPs or anyone else interesting around.

Equally you've got Hyundai in there with trade stands and a few other bits. End of day interview. Not really not a lot to hold the attention though.

[PLuto]

I was in service parks on WRC two times last year. And except I have meet there lot of old friends from other teams, as a spectator it was nothing superb. Always only standing too far away behind fence, big buildings of manufacturers made as representation of money and good only for VIP etc...

[Eli]

Before I begin, Happy New Year!!! May we have a great year of rallying both in the WRC & outside.
Just wanted to ask about the current point scoring system for this year. It stays the same since it was introduced back in 2010, not going to revert itself right?

[KiwiWRCfan]

Before I begin, Happy New Year!!! May we have a great year of rallying both in the WRC & outside.
Just wanted to ask about the current point scoring system for this year. It stays the same since it was introduced back in 2010, not going to revert itself right?

Yes points will again be as per every year since 2010.

For Drivers and Manufacturers
first = 25, second = 18, third = 15, fourth = 12, fifth = 10,
sixth = 8, seventh = 6, eighth =4, ninth = 2, tenth = 1

For Drivers only - Power stage points as used in 2017
first = 5, second = 4, third = 3, fourth = 2, fifth = 1

[Watson]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2018/01/01/maekinen-und-die-idee-von-250-wertungskilometern/

Tommi Makinen is having a serious case of brain diarrhea.

"The WRC calender is supposed to grow from 13 to 16 events [no sources, no mention of the space of time it is supposed to happen]. To lower the costs at the same time it is being discussed whether there will be no Sunday stages anymore and whether the stages should be shortened."

"'We should not exceed 250 km per event', Tommi Makinen says. This would drop the costs and make taking part in the evens easier."

"'We have to or three stages, then it takes forever until something happens again', says Makinen agreeing with Mahonen and Ciesla."

"Makinen goes on to say: 'The world rally cars of today are capable of doing 400 - 500 km. It would be better to do two short events before rebuilding the cars in an extensive fashion. For example, the Rallies in Mexico and Argentina could be combined.'"

[Watson]

So basically what Tommi wants is 250 km two day events. We have entered the discussion of sprint events at least by now.

I also don't get the argument of having to do less extensive rebuilding of the cars if you only have to do it every two events. What if a car meets a tree head on or rolls? I doubt any team would really do that anyway cause they might as well rebuild lots of things after every event to make sure to avoid failures.

I'd prefer to stay with 13 events and making them a bit longer again.

I am not into conspiracies but it sounds to me like someone's built a fragile car and wants to force the regulations in his direction instead of going back to the drawing board with his own car and people in FIA have a bias towards this certain somebody.

[AnttiL]

I think the Mäkinen interview was already discussed elsewhere. Think of it this way, if the rallies were shorter, would more teams join in? And conversely, would we go back to two teams with longer rallies? I also made a poll on twitter about this, 60% would prefer current situation, 30% would prefer more teams with the cost of shorter rallies https://twitter.com/AnttiL_WRC/status/946487375106109441

[electroliquid]

How more rallies effects WRC2? with 7 out of 16 rallies in WRC2 - rivals may never face each other, situation sometimes happening now, if it will be 9 or 10 events, not 7 many privateers couldn't afford it, and WRC2 will be another WRC3 with no real championship left. I think best way would be with some iconic events permanent spot in calendar + "they own rules", like night stages, different rally stages km, different number of days, very long legs in Finland, and etc. what was already discussed before + some rotation events with rules, like now - ~350km of stages, 2 and half days, SSS required number and etc.
It could look like this:
Monte Carlo
Sweden
Mexico/(some Africa event)
TDC
Argentina/Chile
Portugal
Sardinia/Greece
Finland
Germany
Turkey/Poland
New Zealand
Catalonia/Croatia
Australia/Malaysia(other Asian country maybe)
Wales

Or something like that.

[ESTR]

Okay I'm fan of 16 events maybe, but Ciesla's words about not having more tarmac's is stupid. So then there will be 12 gravel rallies, 2 mixed and one snow???

Maybe sample how could they manage it:

1. Monte-Carlo (Mixed Snow-Tarmac)
2. Sweden (Snow)
3. Mexico (Gravel)
4. Tour De Corse (Tarmac)
5. Argentina (Gravel)
6. Chile (Gravel)
7. Portugal (Gravel)
8. San Remo (Tarmac)
9. Acropolis (Gravel)
10. Finland (Gravel)
11. Deutchland (Tarmac)
12. Wales (Gravel)
13. Japan (Tarmac)
14. Catalunya (Mixed Gravel-Tarmac)
15. Australia (Gravel)
16. Croatia (Tarmac)

[rallyfiend]

Okay I'm fan of 16 events maybe, but Ciesla's words about not having more tarmac's is stupid. So then there will be 12 gravel rallies, 2 mixed and one snow???

Maybe sample how could they manage it:

1. Monte-Carlo (Mixed Snow-Tarmac)
2. Sweden (Snow)
3. Mexico (Gravel)
4. Tour De Corse (Tarmac)
5. Argentina (Gravel)
6. Chile (Gravel)
7. Portugal (Gravel)
8. San Remo (Tarmac)
9. Acropolis (Gravel)
10. Finland (Gravel)
11. Deutchland (Tarmac)
12. Wales (Gravel)
13. Japan (Tarmac)
14. Catalunya (Mixed Gravel-Tarmac)
15. Australia (Gravel)
16. Croatia (Tarmac)

Didn't he say 'no more tarmac in Europe' as opposed to no more tarmac at all?

[seb_sh]

Yes I think some people are knee-jerking; he specifically said there are enough tarmac events in Europe not that he doesn't want to add any tarmac events. Also, I think he's right about pushing too much for "classic" events, the calendar should be balanced with new and old events but most importantly it should have good events. No point in going back to san remo (just giving a random example) if you have to cancel half the stages because spectators are out of control.

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/133724/wrc-considers-move-to-twoday-rallies

Ciesla considers shortening the events to two days and then adding 3 events to the calendar.

It's hard for me to see how removing one day from the existing events would cut the expenses enough to allow adding new events. The logistics must be the biggest expense in the events and that won't become any cheaper if there's more events.

[Simmi]

Agreed I don't think those sums will add up in the eyes of the teams.

Let's see what happens. It's funny to me how vital this Chinese event was that has now sunk without trace. It was on tarmac too so could have been a nice solution.

[ESTR]

Well if he don't want tarmac in Europe they are on good way to add more outside.. Really.. Chile? That made me laugh.. Some time ago Abu Dhabi, Canada, Chile, Croatia, India, Japan, Jordan, Korea, Malaysia, New Zealand, Northern Ireland, Russia and Turkey want their place. Turkey got it. I see only Japan and Korea in tarmac specs outside of Europe. Others are gravel so I don't know who are they fooling.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/133724/wrc-considers-move-to-twoday-rallies

Ciesla considers shortening the events to two days and then adding 3 events to the calendar.

It's hard for me to see how removing one day from the existing events would cut the expenses enough to allow adding new events. The logistics must be the biggest expense in the events and that won't become any cheaper if there's more events.

The problem is if promoter wants last stage as midday live TV. So 1,5 days of rally. World Rallysprint Championship.

They don’t need change the rallies. They need understand that they need do what other sports did, a media/internet/tv revolution. Not change rules every time

Rallies should have weekend stages to people who works and can’t go to week stages, but hardcore fans need week stages, need that feel of be free, be different, see something unique.

And no Rally 2 or Rally 2 between sections instead legs?

But if WRC, the WORLD Rally Champion goes to it. What about ERC? One rally in one morning? And national championships? 1 stage? Buhhh lets create a new promoter and a new XWRC, eXtreme Rally Championship :)

What you think about no second runs? Costs more but people don’t be at same time. Imagine 2 days with huge crowd like Fafe... they will be like sheep

[AnttiL]

The problem is if promoter wants last stage as midday live TV. So 1,5 days of rally. World Rallysprint Championship.

Like I said on twitter, this could work:
Friday: Shakedown, ceremonial Start, super special, one leg of night stages
Saturday: 3 legs of stages (instead of 2 like now)
Sunday: Like now.

It would shorten the rally week by one day but keep the stage kms the same.

[AnttiL]

Also, this was said by Colin Clark on twitter


Maybe slightly controversial, but for me the future of rallying lies with the audience at home and not so much with the audience in the stages

[Simmi]

It stings a bit as someone who attends a lot of rallies, but what Colin says is correct there about the audience at home. It's the same with the vast majority of sports. The people in the stages, or in the stadiums, are already converted fans.

[Gregor-y]

That's what Dave Richards was saying fifteen years ago, and what Max Mosley was saying about F1 forty years ago. It's cheaper to set cameras up on a circuit and broadcast than have film crews moving around and sending in a signal from the woods, though. Live coverage, recaps and access to them on TV or online of rally is messier now than a few years ago.

[dupanton]

That's what Dave Richards was saying fifteen years ago, and what Max Mosley was saying about F1 forty years ago. It's cheaper to set cameras up on a circuit and broadcast than have film crews moving around and sending in a signal from the woods, though. Live coverage, recaps and access to them on TV or online of rally is messier now than a few years ago.

Since the IRC broadcasted the whole Monte Carlo live, we know it is possible to do it. But since then (2011?) things only changed for the worst.

[ESTR]

So they have better equipment then and more not lazy people out there, if that is the problem of 2017/2018... Next thing they could shut down is live timing because is too much to work on. And introduce backyard rally and cars could go from real thing to RC ones...

[PLuto]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/133724/wrc-considers-move-to-twoday-rallies

Ciesla considers shortening the events to two days and then adding 3 events to the calendar.

It's hard for me to see how removing one day from the existing events would cut the expenses enough to allow adding new events. The logistics must be the biggest expense in the events and that won't become any cheaper if there's more events.

For sure not. Most expensive on each event is logistics - transport, accomodation, building the manors in service etc. +-100 kms of stages is absolutely nothing in terms of budget. But adding one more event is a huuuuuge... ...problem :)

[JUF]

I don´t like the idea of shortening all the events to two days, maybe just some of them. It could be an option for rallies which take place in (more or less) the same area, for example Argentina/Chile or Corsica/Sardinia. These events could be held on two consecutive weekends. And while these rallies are shorter you could lengthen other rallies like Monte-Carlo and give the double amount of points.

[Simmi]

Some events lend themselves to it more I agree. Colin Clark referenced Ypres in a tweet which I agree with as a good example of a short event that packs in the value. Being held in summer helps the event, but so does the compact nature of the stages.

Trying to pack Rally GB into two days for example doesn't work in the current format. They'd need to move the service park closer to the stages, which then means the service park is less effective. So they need to be careful they don't create issues in other areas.

What I fear is they need to cut days out from all rallies to even get close to the cost-savings required for a couple more flyaway events. Shortening just a couple doesn't work. It really is a case of compromising the sport for the sake of the $$$ that you can get by adding extra rounds.

[Andre Oliveira]

Ypres is good but it is ERC/BRC/ERT event... not a WORLD Rally Championship event

[tommeke_B]

It's ridiculous. Just one year after they changed the regulations (which create more expensive cars) they're already talking about cutting the costs. If they'll make events shorter, teams will just have more money to spend on development, eventually making things even more expensive...

[Rally Power]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/133724/wrc-considers-move-to-twoday-rallies
Ciesla considers shortening the events to two days and then adding 3 events to the calendar.

When will Ciesla realize that WRC popularity can’t be declared by a FIA rule and it’s not measurable by TV audiences or twiter stats? Doesn’t he knows that many previous WRC attempts to extend the series worldwide have failed?

I hope the guy understands it once for all: Rally it’s deeply linked to the passion of the people where the sport was born and got developed. FIA must recognize WRC’s Eurocentric character; otherwise they risk the series future, opening the way for rival alternatives, like it happened with IRC.

Ok, maybe there’s room to improve current events layout, as the 3 stages/60 kms double loop format, run from 9 to 5 with endless liaisons and boring halts, it’s exhausted, still, no matter the kind of shorter WRC rallys they came with, heritage events (MC, GB, NZ or ARG) identity must be respected; like it was said here before (by AndyRAC, I believe), no one would dare to turn LeMans 24H into a 6H race, just to line up with other WEC events...

[fegh]

In Lebanon we have very challenging tarmac stages.... Why not?

Sent from my HTC Desire 10 pro using Tapatalk

[JUF]

In Lebanon we have very challenging tarmac stages.... Why not? Well, I like the idea. I would definitely come to see that event.

[RICARDO75]

How many rallies on final day, were really competitive or with changes between top 3 in 2017?

Just Argentina.

Tänak made mistake in Poland and Latvala in Austrália, losing second position and that's it

[Mirek]

Ypres is good but it is ERC/BRC/ERT event... not a WORLD Rally Championship event

Ypres is wrong example - the only "short edition" in many last years was 2017 (already out of ERC). Otherwise even on ERC level Ypres used to be always the longest event with a total legth around 300 km. What is true is that all the stages are packed in very short time but that's also thanks to geography and extremely dense road network in there.

[PLuto]

Ypres is wrong example - the only "short edition" in many last years was 2017 (already out of ERC). Otherwise even on ERC level Ypres used to be always the longest event with a total legth around 300 km. What is true is that all the stages are packed in very short time but that's also thanks to geography and extremely dense road network in there.

And as another "bad" example I can say Rallye du Valais. In ERC/IRC era it was great event with 250-300 kms of SS. Last year in ERC it was due to regulations only 233 kms and it was worse. But what I have seen during last year, it was quite disaster. Only 200 kms of stages, some of the most beautiful stages were missing (completely stages or northern part of the valley) and the result was really sad...

[AnttiL]

How many rallies on final day, were really competitive or with changes between top 3 in 2017?

Just Argentina.

Tänak made mistake in Poland and Latvala in Austrália, losing second position and that's it

Finland as well.

[AndyRAC]

When will Ciesla realize that WRC popularity can’t be declared by a FIA rule and it’s not measurable by TV audiences or twitter stats? Doesn’t he knows that many previous WRC attempts to extend the series worldwide have failed?

I hope the guy understands it once for all: Rally it’s deeply linked to the passion of the people where the sport was born and got developed. FIA must recognize WRC’s Eurocentric character; otherwise they risk the series future, opening the way for rival alternatives, like it happened with IRC.


All this is proves, is that Ciesla simply has no understanding of the sport. He seems to want to repeat the mistakes of the past. Is the WRC a big enough to support 16 events? I don't think so. It's been tried before.......

Just because F1 has 20+ races, doesn't mean that the WRC can also go bigger. I do still think they look at F1 for ideas - I wish they wouldn't, it's completely different world.

12 events of different character is what my ideal WRC would have. I don't have a problem with a few 2 day sprint events, as long as we get a few 4 day endurance events, plus the 3 day format events. But this is something they just can't/ won't do.

[Tarmop]

How many rallies on final day, were really competitive or with changes between top 3 in 2017?

Just Argentina.

Tänak made mistake in Poland and Latvala in Austrália, losing second position and that's it

RMC: Tänak having techincal issues and had to push beyond the limit on PS, half way through he was 5th i believe...
Sweden: Both Tänak and Ogier had a chance against rally winner Latvala, the gap was just a few seconds.
Mexico: Meeke on PS...but that IS rallying and it went well for him.
Corsica: Just 1.3 seconds between Ogier and Sordo in the end, places 2 and 3.
Argentina: Neuville`s victory that was the closest in history.
Portugal: Can`t remember anything close in the top but it was a fine last day with 2x Fafe.
Sardegna: Pretty much like Portugal but 12 seconds in the end is quite close and no-one lifted their foot for sure.
Poland: Like You mentioned, again just mere seconds between 1. and 2. and it didn`t play out for Tänak, but again that`s rallying at its best.
Finland: Well...i like the end result and RF is RF. E: Also forgot Suninen. :D
Germany: Was pretty much decided, but everything can happen...
Spain: Close between 2. and 3.
GB: Evans was in a different league but theoretically from places 2 to 6 everyone had a chance for a podium when the day started.
Australia: Unlucky Latvala and horrific conditions that played a huge role.

So IMHO most of the time nothing was decided before the finish of PS. If we look beyond podium and places 4-6 then the picture is even more interesting.

[RICARDO75]

Finland as well.

Yes, I forgot Suninen

[RICARDO75]

Rallye Automobile de Monte-Carlo 2017
Day 1 - 1º Neuville; 2º Ogier +45.1; 3º Tänak +45.4
Day 2 - 1º Ogier; 2º Tänak +47.1; 3º Latvala +02:20.6
Day 3 - 1º Ogier; 2º Tänak +02:15.0; 3º Latvala +02:57.8 (4 stages)

Rally Sweden 2017
Day 1 - 1º Neuville; 2º Latvala +28.1; Tänak +49.7
Day 2 - 1º Latvala; 2º Tänak +03.8; 3º Ogier +16.6
Day 3 - 1º Latvala; 2º Tänak +29.2; 3º Ogier +59.5 (3 stages)

Rally Guanajuato Mexico 2017
Day 1 - 1º Meeke; 2º Ogier +20.9; 3º Neuville +56.7
Day 2 - 1º Meeke; 2º Ogier +30.9; 3º Neuville +01:10.5
Day 4 - 1º Meeke; 2º Ogier +13.8; 3º Neuville +02:18.3 (2 stages)

Che Guevara Energy Drink Tour de Corse 2017
Day 1 - 1º Meeke; 2º Ogier +10.3; 3º Neuville +25.8
Day 2 - 1º Neuville; 2º Ogier +38.9; 3º Sordo +57.7
Day 3 - 2º Neuville; 2º Ogier +54.7; 3º Sordo +56.0 (2 stages)

YPF Rally Argentina 2017
Day 1 - 1º Evans; 2º Ostberg +55.7; 3º Neuville +01:00.7
Day 2 - 1º Evans; 2º Neuville +11.5; 3º Tänak +26.8
Day 3 - 1º Neuville; 2º Evans +00.7; 3º Tänak +29.9 (3 stages)

Vodafone Rally de Portugal 2017
Day 1 - 1º Tänak; 2º Sordo +04.6; 3º Ogier +05.0
Day 2 - 1º Ogier; 2º Neuville +16.8; 3º Sordo +51.3
Day 3 - 1º Ogier; 2º Neuville +15.6; 3º Sordo +01:01.7 (4 stages)

Rally Italia Sardegna 2017
Day 1 - 1º Paddon; 2º Neuville +08.2; 3º Tänak +09.5
Day 2 - 1º Tänak; 2º Latvala +24.3; 3º Neuville +01:02.2
Day 3 - 1º Tänak; 2º Latvala +12.3; 3º Neuville +01:07.7 (4 stages)

ORLEN Rally Poland 2017
Day 1 - 1º Neuville; 2º Tänak +01.3; 3º Latvala +06.6
Day 2 - 1º Neuville; 2º Tänak +03.1; 3º Paddon +25.5
Day 3 - 1º Neuville; 2º Paddon +01:23.9; 3º Ogier +02:20.8 (4 stages)

Neste Rally Finland 2017
Day 1 - 1º Lappi; 2º Latvala +04.4; 3º Suninen +19.0
Day 2 - 1º Lappi; 2º Suninen +49.1; 3º Hänninen +53.4
Day 3 - 1º Lappi; 2º Evans +36.0; 3º Hänninen +36.3 (4 stages)

ADAC Rallye Deutschland 2017
Day 1 - 1º Tänak; 2º Mikkelsen +05.7; 3º Neuville +28.2
Day 2 - 1º Tänak; 2º Mikkelsen +21.4; 3º Ogier +29.6
Day 3 - 1º Tänak; 2º Mikkelsen +16.4; 3º Ogier +30.4 (4 stages)

RallyRACC Catalunya - Costa Daurada 2017
Day 1 - 1º Mikkelsen; 2º Ogier +01.4; 3º Meeke +03.0
Day 2 - 1º Meeke; 2º Ogier +13.0; 3º Tänak +14.5
Day 3 - 1º Meeke; 2º Ogier +28.0; 3º Tänak +33.0 (6 stages)

Dayinsure Wales Rally GB 2017
Day 1 - 1º Evans; 2º Tänak +24.6; 3º Ogier +26.8
Day 2 - 1º Evans; 2º Ogier +53.1; 3º Neuville +53.6
Day 3 - 1º Evans; 2º Neuville +37.3; 3º Ogier +45.2 (5 stages)

Kennards Hire Rally Australia 2017
Day 1 - 1º Mikkelsen; 2º Neuville +20.1; 3º Meeke +20.8
Day 2 - 1º Neuville; 2º Latvala +20.1; 3º Tänak +40.6
Day 3 - 1º Neuville; 2º Tänak +22.5; 3º Paddon +02:27.7 (5 stages)

[dimviii]

brievesrallyeschool
‏@brievesrallye
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSitVjGWsAAy9e2.jpg

[AnttiL]

Corsica: Just 1.3 seconds between Ogier and Sordo in the end, places 2 and 3.

And Latvala overtook Breen's fourth place on the power stage by a tenth, also winning the power stage. That was an epic power stage moment for me.

Also in Germany, Evans dropped from 4th to 6th on the final day.

[sonnybobiche]

I just want to highlight this quote from today's Autosport that really sums up the genius of this idea:

"We do not exclude shortening the rallies, but I see it in the bigger strategic context with 14, 15 or 16 rallies. If we are talking about [shortening] one or two rallies, it wouldn't make much difference, but if we shorten them all then this can save 15 or 16 [days] - that's more than two weeks in a hotel. Then we are talking."

Oliver Ciesla, are you seriously trying to suggest that two weeks of room and board for ~50 people is comparable to the cost of traveling to and competing in three additional events around the world? It's not even the same order of magnitude! Are you seriously pretending that this would be a cost saving exercise? It's either unbelievably dishonest or completely economically illiterate. I'm not sure which is worse.

I don't like this guy. I don't think he actually gets rallying, and I don't think he's a good promoter for the sport.

[SubaruNorway]

No idea if this is a stage but this is what most roads around Concepcion in Chile looks like if anyone wants to see.
Like a mix of Australia and Mexico.

https://www.google.no/maps/@-36.8028256,-72.849888,3a,75y,248.08h,83.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s34plyp_OkOaTMuMv5rrxdQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

[COD]

Sundays now are a bit of bore with so little stage km’s. So in that sense, two days would be enough. But the long service breaks are also boring, so a remote service with tyres, fuel and emergency repairs would allow more action per day. So no shorter rallies km wise, but mor packed to two days.
Make a rule that allows only limited overhaul betweeen two consecutive events and the manufacturers are forced to build more robust cars and Tommi’s problem is also solved...

[AndyRAC]

I don't like this guy. I don't think he actually gets rallying, and I don't think he's a good promoter for the sport.

What are his qualifications for the job? He shouldn't be anywhere near the job. He's stealing a living.

[PLuto]

I must say (and I am telling it many times), that I am disappointed what Red Bull Media did as a promoter in WRC. I was expecting much, much more that they have shown. And of course lot of stupid words and crazy future decisions by their boss, lot of them didnt happened, thanks god...

[the sniper]

Sadly I've come to expect that prominent figures in the WRC will only ever make suggestions that completely undermine the integrity of the sport, while doing nothing to enhance it, purely to serve their own lazy personal interests. They're so regularly completely at odds with what a fan of rallying would want, it's sad but predictable. Ciesla though, while not being the most outrageous of these, is probably the biggest failure of the prominent figures. He's taking the sport nowhere. The core rally 'product' is great now, yet he and Red Bull Media seem to have no ambition, ability or vision for developing the main thing the WRC needs, more mainstream reach and exposure. Instead they're buggering about trying to further water down the 'events' we have...

The basic 'world feed' coverage most broadcasters show is quite soulless, the Red Bull TV coverage is better and presents the WRC more like a mainstream sport, but it's on a channel that nobody watches and even many rally fans don't know about. The official You Tube content is largely lacklustre, almost a token gesture. Live stages and onboards are hidden on WRC+, ironically available free most of the time if you're willing to jump through the hoops to get it. Why not make that content freely accessible to all? Make more coverage available live on Facebook, Twitter and You Tube.

The thing I found most annoying about the 10km stage length idea being pushed is that none of the people in the sport seem to acknowledge that the stage length is completely irrelevant to these important kids with their short attention span's, most don't even have access to compelling coverage of the sport in the first place! When amateur videographers on You Tube get 500k to 1m+ views for their rally footage on You Tube, but the official channel regularly fails to reach 100k with most of their videos, surely Red Bull and Ciesla need to be asking more questions about the way they present the sport.

Saying that, I think the idea of a WRC round in Chile is fine. There seems to be a good local rally scene there and a fan base to serve. It's definitely a better proposition than Turkey or Croatia...

[Watson]

I find it funny how people argue that Sundays got boring. You know why they did? Because Sundays got shortened. Towards the end of an event often times drivers aren't willing to throw points away. Well guess what, when Saturday evening is the end of a rally drivers will go conservative by Saturday afternoon. In a few years people will advocate one and a half day events and after that they moan how boring Saturdays are and that therefore they should be dropped. This is just silly.

[AnttiL]

No idea if this is a stage but this is what most roads around Concepcion in Chile looks like if anyone wants to see.
Like a mix of Australia and Mexico.

https://www.google.no/maps/@-36.8028256,-72.849888,3a,75y,248.08h,83.83t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s34plyp_OkOaTMuMv5rrxdQ!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7DbPPgqqvo

I think this video is from the candidate event last year.

[pantealex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7DbPPgqqvo

I think this video is from the candidate event last year.

Very many different cars, I like !

[Hartusvuori]

Very many different cars, I like !

And runki!

[SubaruNorway]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7DbPPgqqvo

I think this video is from the candidate event last year.

It doesn't really bring anything new to the sport like NZ would have does it?
It's just a mix of what we have, even looks a bit like Wales in places.

[AnttiL]

It doesn't really bring anything new to the sport like NZ would have does it?
It's just a mix of what we have, even looks a bit like Wales in places.

Yeh, looks a bit like Wales and NZ. But I thought NZ was totally out of the question financially?

[Hartusvuori]

It doesn't really bring anything new to the sport like NZ would have does it?
It's just a mix of what we have, even looks a bit like Wales in places.

I can't remember the last time WRC stopped by at Chile.

[rallyfiend]

It doesn't really bring anything new to the sport like NZ would have does it?
It's just a mix of what we have, even looks a bit like Wales in places.

Ha ha ha ha.

A new country that has never been in the WRC brings nothing 'new', but a country that was last in the WRC recently does?!

[RICARDO75]

I find it funny how people argue that Sundays got boring. You know why they did? Because Sundays got shortened. Towards the end of an event often times drivers aren't willing to throw points away. Well guess what, when Saturday evening is the end of a rally drivers will go conservative by Saturday afternoon. In a few years people will advocate one and a half day events and after that they moan how boring Saturdays are and that therefore they should be dropped. This is just silly.

Yes, in most rallies Sunday stages is useless, especially on those who have two or three stages. I do not mean that we should delete Sunday, but the way how it is, I don't like it at all, because apart from one fight or two, all the other drivers are just driving to the finish.
I also believe that Power Stage shouldn't be the last stage. Wouldn't be better to have it in the middle of rally, at the start of saturday second loop with new tires and not be required to make management of tires on the final day?

[SubaruNorway]

Ha ha ha ha.

A new country that has never been in the WRC brings nothing 'new', but a country that was last in the WRC recently does?!

I'm talking in terms of road character, tight forests with no view doesn't make for good footage in my view.
I'm sure it will be popular by the locals but for media and TV it probably won't be anything special like you would get from a place like Wanga Coast, that can't be so hard to understand? :)

[Eli]

Sadly I've come to expect that prominent figures in the WRC will only ever make suggestions that completely undermine the integrity of the sport, while doing nothing to enhance it, purely to serve their own lazy personal interests. They're so regularly completely at odds with what a fan of rallying would want, it's sad but predictable. Ciesla though, while not being the most outrageous of these, is probably the biggest failure of the prominent figures. He's taking the sport nowhere. The core rally 'product' is great now, yet he and Red Bull Media seem to have no ambition, ability or vision for developing the main thing the WRC needs, more mainstream reach and exposure. Instead they're buggering about trying to further water down the 'events' we have...

The basic 'world feed' coverage most broadcasters show is quite soulless, the Red Bull TV coverage is better and presents the WRC more like a mainstream sport, but it's on a channel that nobody watches and even many rally fans don't know about. The official You Tube content is largely lacklustre, almost a token gesture. Live stages and onboards are hidden on WRC+, ironically available free most of the time if you're willing to jump through the hoops to get it. Why not make that content freely accessible to all? Make more coverage available live on Facebook, Twitter and You Tube.

The thing I found most annoying about the 10km stage length idea being pushed is that none of the people in the sport seem to acknowledge that the stage length is completely irrelevant to these important kids with their short attention span's, most don't even have access to compelling coverage of the sport in the first place! When amateur videographers on You Tube get 500k to 1m+ views for their rally footage on You Tube, but the official channel regularly fails to reach 100k with most of their videos, surely Red Bull and Ciesla need to be asking more questions about the way they present the sport.

Saying that, I think the idea of a WRC round in Chile is fine. There seems to be a good local rally scene there and a fan base to serve. It's definitely a better proposition than Turkey or Croatia...

Direct to the point...sadly it doesn't seem like anyone up there gives a rat ass about everything you just wrote...perhaps they should do a survey like they did back in 2013/4...

[Gregor-y]

I find it funny how people argue that Sundays got boring. You know why they did? Because Sundays got shortened. Towards the end of an event often times drivers aren't willing to throw points away. Well guess what, when Saturday evening is the end of a rally drivers will go conservative by Saturday afternoon. In a few years people will advocate one and a half day events and after that they moan how boring Saturdays are and that therefore they should be dropped. This is just silly.

I think there's a good psychological reason to end Saturday night. Marshals, volunteers and spectators have Sunday to get home and back to work Monday. If necessary start the event properly on Thursday. It's easier to be absent during one week than parts of two.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Yeh, looks a bit like Wales and NZ. But I thought NZ was totally out of the question financially?
New Zealand had the required funding Ok then someone came along with a whole lot more Euro and brought their way in over the top of NZ

[EstWRC]

speaking about the coverage, i think no one wont use WRC+ anymore now after they made a deal with Rallysafe

here is a video about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY3EmQi3NVU

and you can see how it works from here, https://app.rallysafe.com.au/Event/PublicView/2483

and they have Monte already on upcoming events :) https://app.rallysafe.com.au/Event/EventViewer#upcoming

i didnt know anything about it before they announced the deal to work with WRC but i have only seen good words about it.