International Rally Driver of the Year - 2017 [Archive]

BigWorm

31st October 2017, 16:22

So, Autsport have released their list of nominated drivers for the award. They include:

Elfyn Evans
Jari-Matti Latvala
Kris Meeke
Thierry Neuville
Sébastien Ogier
Ott Tänak

Who's your pick and why?

Tough to pick between the M-Sport boys in my opinion. Ott and Elfyn have delivered the demands of them taking the next step this season in great fashion, while Ogier was incredibly consistent this year. Ogier clinches my vote, but only just. I would be fine with one of the M-Sport drivers getting the award.

Surprised to see Meeke nominated. I think he has done nothing different in 2017, won some and crashed some more, things we already know he was capable of.

electroliquid

31st October 2017, 16:51

I personally would pick Tanak - he's fast, quite reliable, breakthrough year for him - win on gravel and tarmac, few podiums also, he is podium contender on every rally, and can fight for win in most of rallies. But Ogier is champion, so probably he'll win it.

cali

31st October 2017, 17:17

Must be Ogier. Tänak did mistakes that cost him the real chance to fight for the championship, Neuville most of the time blindingly fast and then we saw mysterious drop of speed in the summer + really stupid mistakes. Both guys very fast but still inconsistent. Seb O. was clever and of course all champs need a tiny bit of luck as well :)

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er88

31st October 2017, 17:28

Ogier obviously

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mknight

31st October 2017, 17:46

Ogier - involuntarily new team and car, immediately wins first rally and then the title due to both speed and consistency

The others in just about this order:
Tanak - sure he put himself on the map with 2 wins, but he also was involved with the fiesta from the very start and didn't win the title, now probably also lost 2nd (should have done the award after australia), so barely behind Ogier in my eyes.
Neuville - fastest driver of the year and a real title contender, but showed he still needs some more consistency (Sweden stands out the most)

Latvala - after disastrous 2016 and declining form he was actually both fast and stable in an new car, good job. But he has been driving and winning rallies on this level for quite a while, so nothing totally new.

Evans - really impossible to judge performance both ways, say if DMACK was 0.5s faster in Wales that would mean that on equal tires he could have ended 7th. Similarly maybe DMACK was 0.5 slower on tarmac or other gravel rallies and he had rally winning speed... pretty impossible to judge with only 1 driver on those tires.

Meeke -bad joke from brit. journalists? The only real positive is winning in Spain after crashing/mistakes in 5 consecutive rallies. But as mentioned here he has done that many times before, win something after crashing a lot. Considering he was pointed as main title candidate before the start of the year I can't see how this qualifies for any award. Also Finland and Germany have shown that others can also drive the C3 faster than him.

Mirek

31st October 2017, 18:16

Ogier or Tänak for me.

racerx1979

31st October 2017, 18:20

Latvala, Tanak or Ogier all good for me.

L555MAT

31st October 2017, 19:43

Im a huge Meeke fan but how the hell is he nominated? Evans has had a great year, but I'd have to say Ogier. IMHO I think this seasons title has taken him above Loeb.

Mirek

31st October 2017, 20:46

IMHO I think this seasons title has taken him above Loeb.

Loeb: 9 titles, 78 victories, 116 podiums, 904 stage wins out of 169 starts -> 46,2% win rate, 68,6% podium rate
Ogier: 5 titles, 40 victories, 65 podiums, 498 stage wins out of 122 starts -> 32,8% win rate, 53,3% podium rate

Roy

31st October 2017, 21:05

Im a huge Meeke fan but how the hell is he nominated? Evans has had a great year, but I'd have to say Ogier. IMHO I think this seasons title has taken him above Loeb.

You mean Ogier comes into a new team who's car is not builded for him. And if it is not enough gamble, M-Sport is a half private team with less financial resources.
Ogier is champion with two teams. We saw Makkinen struggle after the switch from Mitsubishi to Subaru. Loeb hasn't make a switch. He stays with the French PSA family.

Number facts about how fast Loeb was are right. The switch to this team make him Champion in the first year at M-sport makes Ogier 'great'. For me he is.

ESTR

31st October 2017, 21:08

Best way to settle this is to see them maybe at ROC some day head to head. Or maybe if Loeb comes back into WRC (and if he will be still competitive for the top times).

Mirek

31st October 2017, 21:16

You mean Ogier comes into a new team who's car is not builded for him. And if it is not enough gamble, M-Sport is a half private team with less financial resources.
Ogier is champion with two teams. We saw Makkinen struggle after the switch from Mitsubishi to Subaru. Loeb hasn't make a switch. He stays with the French PSA family.

Number facts about how fast Loeb was are right. The switch to this team make him Champion in the first year at M-sport makes Ogier 'great'. For me he is.

Nobody switches from winning team for fun. Ogier switched because he had to not because he wanted to. He managed to take the title regardless. Hats off to him but that doesn't downplay Loeb's titles at all.

Best way to settle this is to see them maybe at ROC some day head to head. Or maybe if Loeb comes back into WRC (and if he will be still competitive for the top times).

That's nonsense. First some stupid show event means nothing and second they are different generations. Loeb retired already.

The only way to compare drivers (if somebody really feels the need to do so) is by their achievements. Loeb is and most likely will stay unmached for a long time coming. That's simply a fact.

tommeke_B

31st October 2017, 21:16

Every era has it's own characteristics, and every new generation has learned things from the previous ones. I don't think it makes sense to put the statistics from Ogier against those from Loeb. Many people dislike Loeb as some manufacturers stopped rally-activities during (or due to) his dominance... I think it's fair to say Loeb has changed the sport and opened many eyes. I think people have become much more analytical during those years, even in national events.

But back on topic, best driver of 2017... Hard to argue against Ogier, he was the smartest and most consistent. Neuville was quickest, but a bit too unreliable, both driver and car. You can call it bad luck when a wheel breaks off, but not when it happens on 4 events... Great progress has been seen from Evans and Tänak. Latvala had some bad luck with technical issues, but did a good season as well. Mikkelsen did few events but when he competed, he did a great job. 2018 could be very interesting... :)

L555MAT

31st October 2017, 21:34

Loeb: 9 titles, 78 victories, 116 podiums, 904 stage wins out of 169 starts -> 46,2% win rate, 68,6% podium rate
Ogier: 5 titles, 40 victories, 65 podiums, 498 stage wins out of 122 starts -> 32,8% win rate, 53,3% podium rate

Vettel 4 world driver titles Senna 3. Stats dont always show the full story

L555MAT

31st October 2017, 21:34

macebig

31st October 2017, 21:43

I would vote for Ott. He was the guy that really upped his game this year. If he was able to stay a bit calmer during the final day of Poland, his season would have been nearly flawless. Ogier was excellent but there were so many days this season that he looked vulnerable. Nobody was there to bit him most times, so that should be a plus for him. Neuville had the most pure pace this year but the early costly mistakes and the really bad showing in NORF, undermined his challenge. JML finally managed to mount a consistent campaign for the whole season and without NORF and Poland mechanicals, he would have been even higher. Sadly, Meeke is probably lucky that he still has a contract for 2018...

Mirek

31st October 2017, 21:44

Vettel 4 world driver titles Senna 3. Stats dont always show the full story

That's rather bad example because Senna died as a still active contender.

I really don't understand why rally people tend to downplay what Loeb achieved. There is simply no match to that. He was dominant for a complete decade. His statistics have no match anywhere. He changed the sport and the approach to being a rally driver completely. He sent a whole generation of legends into retirement and he also managed to bring a decade long dominance to a manufacturer who was new to the sport.

L555MAT

31st October 2017, 21:58

That's rather bad example because Senna died as a still active contender.

I really don't understand why rally people tend to downplay what Loeb achieved. There is simply no match to that. He was dominant for a complete decade. His statistics have no match anywhere. He changed the sport and the approach to being a rally driver completely. He sent a whole generation of legends into retirement and he also managed to bring a decade long dominance to a manufacturer who was new to the sport.

Certainly not downplaying...if VW stayed long enough i think ogier would have matched his 9 wdc to make a point. Im saying i think him winning this year in a new car in a privateer team againts 3 full works teams is something special. One hell of a risk to put his reputation and legacy on the line but he did. Im fairly sure Loeb was offered a contract by Ford and even test drove the focus but decided to stay at citroen.

I still think Juha Kannkkunen is better than both and is thr GOAT. But as in my first post, thats my opinion.

ESTR

31st October 2017, 22:02

Real legend: Timo Salonen! we all know why. Group B (Peugeot 205), one hand, Champion 1985... and now spit on me!!!

Adler

31st October 2017, 22:16

Last title for loeb with xsara was actually with Kronos racing... btw he didn't even compete in the last 4 rounds...

GravelBen

31st October 2017, 23:28

I still think Juha Kannkkunen is better than both and is thr GOAT. But as in my first post, thats my opinion.

I'm inclined to agree, the variety of machinery he competed/won with and the length of time he was among the top drivers is quite remarkable.

Very hard to compare between different eras though - truth is we will never know if Loeb would have kept winning in different cars, because he stayed with the same team and the rules stayed more or less the same. And we will never know if Kankkunen would have won more championships if he had the chance to stay in one consistently dominant team and style of car for his whole career.

Regarding this season, I think its Tanak who has impressed me most with his improved speed and consistency over previous years.

wia5958

1st November 2017, 00:01

Has to be tanak for me. He was a different man this year altogether plus that power stage in monte really seals it for me. Closely followed by latvala. Unfortunate mechanical issues and it could of been a diff story. Cant see why meeke or evans are there. N im a fan of both. Maybe meeke for his victories in a problematic car and evans for his win on d macks but not really enough to warrant being on the list

Mirek

1st November 2017, 00:14

Very hard to compare between different eras though - truth is we will never know if Loeb would have kept winning in different cars, because he stayed with the same team and the rules stayed more or less the same. And we will never know if Kankkunen would have won more championships if he had the chance to stay in one consistently dominant team and style of car for his whole career..

Fully active 2.0 WRC cars at Loeb's start were quite a lot different from completely mechanical 1.6 WRC cars with less power and way less torque. It's wrong to say that the rules stayed same all the time. They didn't.

The argument about staying with the same team is pretty lame. He was the one who helped to build the team and get it where it was. When he retired the team suddenly stopped dominating. Before people were crying how he kept winning thanks to his car but strangely other drivers with the same car never managed to be dominant. When he returned from retirement for just one rally in 2015 after just 7 stages of first leg he was already two minutes ahead of his team mate Meeke and nearly three mintes ahead of Ostberg . After nearly two years long pause with the very same car like them! Hirvonen hasn't achieved a single victory with the same car while Loeb from only three starts in the same year scored two victories and one second place (against Ogier in Polo). Out of those three starts Loeb scored more than half of points of No.1 driver Hirvonen in the whole season.

In his first full works season Loeb defeated both his teammates which were none else than Carlos Sainz and Colin McRae. He lost the title with Solberg by 1 point.

Also as Adler pointed out. In 2006 Loeb with semi-works team managed to take the title when he did only 12 events of 16 (due to injury) and scored 8 victories and 4 second places.

steve.mandzij

1st November 2017, 00:32

I'm super impartial, but I'd have to give it to Latvala for driver of the year. The standings don't tell the whole story: his win in Sweden was unprecedented, and there was no denying that he was in a class of his own in Finland. It's sad that the Yaris cost him so many points in Mexico, Argentina, Italy (?), Poland, Finland and Germany (and maybe Spain) because of reliability issues, because he was consistently on the pace for the whole season. I reckon he'd still be in the title fight going into Australia if his car hadn't let him down. Even more remarkable is the context in which this season took place: he bounced back from a crippling career low to become a main title contender for most of the season.

Tanak is a close second, but ultimately he's still growing; not in terms of raw pace, but mentally. He pushed too hard in Poland, slipped off the road in Corsica, lost time during the first night stage in WRGB, etc. He's incredibly quick and a much more worthy title contender than Neuville IMO, but he's not quite complete yet.

Neuville is pretty obviously a bad choice. Even though he was the quickest driver in terms of raw pace, period, he was one of the most mistake prone. He just got lucky many times (rather than unlucky, i.e. Monte or Sweden, which were 100% driver error.). His consistency was what lost him the title...

...unlike the story for Ogier. While he still won the championship, he was only the cleverest driver, not the best. Speedwise, he kept himself moderated: again, smart, but effectively it means he won the title much more from others' mistakes and misfortune other than his own speed.

Meeke is a joke on this list, seriously.

Evans wasn't consistently quick enough to warrant a best driver of the year award at all.

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wrc2017

1st November 2017, 01:20

Your a sad individual.

If we are looking at the DRIVER.. Meeke was walking Corsica. Otherwise we would have 3 wins. He lead most rallys and maybe close to the most stage wins in 2017.

All this while you have got piles sitting infront of your keyboard too long.

He is not going to win it, but if they have to nominate 6.. he is eligable.

Let me know when you make the shortlist for anything on the world stage.

Ogier - involuntarily new team and car, immediately wins first rally and then the title due to both speed and consistency

The others in just about this order:
Tanak - sure he put himself on the map with 2 wins, but he also was involved with the fiesta from the very start and didn't win the title, now probably also lost 2nd (should have done the award after australia), so barely behind Ogier in my eyes.
Neuville - fastest driver of the year and a real title contender, but showed he still needs some more consistency (Sweden stands out the most)

Latvala - after disastrous 2016 and declining form he was actually both fast and stable in an new car, good job. But he has been driving and winning rallies on this level for quite a while, so nothing totally new.

Evans - really impossible to judge performance both ways, say if DMACK was 0.5s faster in Wales that would mean that on equal tires he could have ended 7th. Similarly maybe DMACK was 0.5 slower on tarmac or other gravel rallies and he had rally winning speed... pretty impossible to judge with only 1 driver on those tires.

Meeke -bad joke from brit. journalists? The only real positive is winning in Spain after crashing/mistakes in 5 consecutive rallies. But as mentioned here he has done that many times before, win something after crashing a lot. Considering he was pointed as main title candidate before the start of the year I can't see how this qualifies for any award. Also Finland and Germany have shown that others can also drive the C3 faster than him.

wrc2017

1st November 2017, 01:25

Dont you guys see the heat is now totally off Meeke since an engineering cull within Citroen and Loeb tested the car. Join the dots.
Ogier walks this award.

I would vote for Ott. He was the guy that really upped his game this year. If he was able to stay a bit calmer during the final day of Poland, his season would have been nearly flawless. Ogier was excellent but there were so many days this season that he looked vulnerable. Nobody was there to bit him most times, so that should be a plus for him. Neuville had the most pure pace this year but the early costly mistakes and the really bad showing in NORF, undermined his challenge. JML finally managed to mount a consistent campaign for the whole season and without NORF and Poland mechanicals, he would have been even higher. Sadly, Meeke is probably lucky that he still has a contract for 2018...

N.O.T

1st November 2017, 05:53

How can the world champion not be the driver of the year ??? isn't the championship there to decide that ???

I think the title of the international useless dog of garbage is far more interesting...

the natural born loser potato nobody wins that hands down... Never before in history of the sport a person loses the championship driving the best car by retiring 2 times in in super specials and while leading by about a minute.

cali

1st November 2017, 07:25

Certainly not downplaying...if VW stayed long enough i think ogier would have matched his 9 wdc to make a point. Im saying i think him winning this year in a new car in a privateer team againts 3 full works teams is something special. One hell of a risk to put his reputation and legacy on the line but he did. Im fairly sure Loeb was offered a contract by Ford and even test drove the focus but decided to stay at citroen.

I still think Juha Kannkkunen is better than both and is thr GOAT. But as in my first post, thats my opinion.Kankkunen was crap on tarmac. Not a complete driver IMHO.

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L555MAT

1st November 2017, 11:22

Very good point he was weak on tarmac. Probably one of the few negatives he had

AL14

1st November 2017, 12:07