Austin '17

[Bagwan]

It's back to where it's weird , in the land of tumbleweeds , and , with suitable weirdness , Carlos Sainz has had a bat found hanging in his suspension overnight .
Superstition has it that one can expect major life changes when a bat comes into your house .

It would be weird if he won .

I can't wait to see if the reds can get it together this weekend , because I don't want it to be over yet .

[zako85]

The weather forecast is 77F/25C for Sunday, which should be a comfortable racing temperature. This is the best time of year to visit Texas IMHO, as opposed to July or August when the temperatures usually hit over 100F/37C with plenty of humidity.

[Tazio]

It's back to where it's weird , in the land of tumbleweeds , and , with suitable weirdness , Carlos Sainz has had a bat found hanging in his suspension overnight .
Superstition has it that one can expect major life changes when a bat comes into your house .

It would be weird if he won .

I can't wait to see if the reds can get it together this weekend , because I don't want it to be over yet .

https://www.sourpussclothing.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DRAGULA-VS-MUNSTERKOACH-WEB2.jpg

Sorry :vampire:

[Bagwan]

https://www.sourpussclothing.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/DRAGULA-VS-MUNSTERKOACH-WEB2.jpg

Sorry :vampire:

I said "bat" not "Barris" !
Although , Carlos does have a bit of an "Eddie" look to him . Different haircut , though .

[truefan72]

All drivers with all 4 wheels off at turn 19 should have their laps invalidated.
Its just too annoying. Vettel isn't even trying. he is like a good 2 feet outside the white line.
...and yeah, i see Hamilton is also marginally outside on some laps.

I know last year they said that turn 19 was exempt because you couldn't gain a time advantage, but i beg to differ

[Bagwan]

All drivers with all 4 wheels off at turn 19 should have their laps invalidated.
Its just too annoying. Vettel isn't even trying. he is like a good 2 feet outside the white line.
...and yeah, i see Hamilton is also marginally outside on some laps.

I know last year they said that turn 19 was exempt because you couldn't gain a time advantage, but i beg to differ

This kind of rule needs to be enforced during qualifying with no exceptions for anything , including the fact that it is deemed no advantage to do so .
Limits are limits when rules are as straight forward as this .

Allowing any breach of the limits just makes the stewards look like they don't know the rules .
And , breaching those limits should really be going outside the lines with the outside wheel , not the inside one . That's when they really go outside the track surface .
They seem to be able to do that in Monaco , with no run-off , so why isn't this the standard everywhere ?

[Tazio]

This kind of rule needs to be enforced during qualifying with no exceptions for anything , including the fact that it is deemed no advantage to do so .
Limits are limits when rules are as straight forward as this .

Allowing any breach of the limits just makes the stewards look like they don't know the rules .
And , breaching those limits should really be going outside the lines with the outside wheel , not the inside one . That's when they really go outside the track surface .
They seem to be able to do that in Monaco , with no run-off , so why isn't this the standard everywhere ?The FIA and Charlie are a JOKE...

[Tazio]

Quali Dawgz!
I picked Fred finishing 10th as my upset pick (which have pretty much helped me to p7 so far in the inter-forum pickems). But I have a feeling this one is going to bite me in the ass. :angryfire

[Tazio]

Stroll in for a reprimand. What was he thinking?

[truefan72]

This kind of rule needs to be enforced during qualifying with no exceptions for anything , including the fact that it is deemed no advantage to do so .
Limits are limits when rules are as straight forward as this .

Allowing any breach of the limits just makes the stewards look like they don't know the rules .
And , breaching those limits should really be going outside the lines with the outside wheel , not the inside one . That's when they really go outside the track surface .
They seem to be able to do that in Monaco , with no run-off , so why isn't this the standard everywhere ?

I agree. Everyone was going way wide on turn 19 and a bit on turn 10. Some of Hamilton's best laps had him well outside of turn 19 and others did the same.
They have now issued one of their "special grey area" edicts as to exceeding track limits which has managed to muddle the issue rather than clear it up.
Simple solution. All 4 wheels outside the tracks should be a nullification of said lap. It worked in Austria 2 years ago and the drivers learned. So why not here when the violations are so blatant?
Instead, we might have confusion post race with some drivers getting penalized and others not on the subjective whims of the stewards.
Come on Charlie. smh

[truefan72]

Stroll in for a reprimand. What was he thinking?

add Magnussen to that list. That guy is really not making any friends up and down the paddock

[Tazio]

add Magnussen to that list. That guy is really not making any friends up and down the paddockYes dumb move by KM!

[The Black Knight]

add Magnussen to that list. That guy is really not making any friends up and down the paddock

Wouldn't be too hard on Stroll - it was just one of those situations. Magnussen wasn't told by HaaS that Perez was on a fast lap.

[Tazio]

Wouldn't be too hard on Stroll - it was just one of those situations. Magnussen wasn't told by HaaS that Perez was on a fast lap.
Sounds like pretty much the same situation with Stroll, as Mag.

"Stroll was on a slow lap, Grosjean on a fast lap. Stroll was changing settings under direction of his engineer and got a very late call about Grosjean overtaking.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132553/stroll-penalised-for-grosjean-qualifying-block

Either way they both drop back 3!

[AndyL]

This kind of rule needs to be enforced during qualifying with no exceptions for anything , including the fact that it is deemed no advantage to do so .
Limits are limits when rules are as straight forward as this .

Allowing any breach of the limits just makes the stewards look like they don't know the rules .
And , breaching those limits should really be going outside the lines with the outside wheel , not the inside one . That's when they really go outside the track surface .
They seem to be able to do that in Monaco , with no run-off , so why isn't this the standard everywhere ?

Or they could move the white line. Might be easier. If the stewards say it's OK to drive there, make it part of the track. Problem solved.

[Bagwan]

Or they could move the white line. Might be easier. If the stewards say it's OK to drive there, make it part of the track. Problem solved.

Or , build walls like in Monaco .
Harder than painting lines , but it makes for more ad space , so an easy choice .

[Bagwan]

Sounds like pretty much the same situation with Stroll, as Mag.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/132553/stroll-penalised-for-grosjean-qualifying-block

Either way they both drop back 3!

And , though they both move back , they also move up the grid , with others getting penalized heavier .
Stroll moves up one spot and Mag up two from where they qualified .

[airshifter]

I'm glad I'm not the only one irritated with the track limits enforcement as well as the bonehead impeding thing. The track limits solutions are just so easy, but they seem to pick and choose when they are enforced. If there is no advantage just change the lines, but enforce the lines that are there regardless.

As for the impeding thing, the team should be more involved in warning the drivers, but in both cases the drivers should have known better. That Grosjean/Stroll meeting could have gone very bad quickly.



Other than that, nothing surprising really in qually. I think I like this track more every year.

[Bagwan]

It looks like it was both teams , rather than drivers , that were penalized .
The drivers get no readout on where others are , so rely on the crew to alert them .
That Stroll thing was , indeed , scary . He must have had only moments to react to the call as RoGro approached .

[steveaki13]

Deserved penalties for Qualifying. Both silly moves by drivers/teams

Sainz is doing a brilliant job so far this weekend. Not missed a step.

Hope Vettel gets ahead into turn 1 and gives us a race to remember.

[gm99]

Hamilton was moving at least as far left at the start as Vettel was in Singapore - no calls for the immediate removal of his super license?

[truefan72]

Maybe bottas read my post. Lol.
Finally picking up the pace

[truefan72]

Petez really needs to shut it. There is absolutely no reason to switch places and he cant even hold off sainz. Smh

[truefan72]

Bottas. Jeez. He absolutely has to pass vettel and not allow kimi to overtake. If kimi does he will park the bus and protect vettel. Kimi doing his part. Bottas isn't. So useless

[steveaki13]

Good race this

[AndyL]

I'm surprised to see a penalty for Ericsson, I didn't see him as at fault there.

[truefan72]

Bottas just sucks. Just aweful. And now he shows more fight against verstappen. Idiot

[AndyL]

Right, because on shot tyres he should have been able to resist cars on much newer rubber.

[AndyL]

"Seb is the car behind" presumably the new "Fernando is faster than you."

[truefan72]

Nice job verstappen. Vettel slowed to give kimi drs but he did not deploy.
Congrats to mercedes. 2017 wcc champs

[truefan72]

Damn. Max is getting penalized for a brave pass. Tough. Vettel should have nothing to say since kimi let him waltz bye.

[AndyL]

Well you all got your wish, now they're enforcing track limits, after the race has finished.

[truefan72]

That is a good post race crowd

[steveaki13]

Good race. A shame about Max penalty. I have always been a very hands off penalties person (look at any previous posts over the years) so really hate the stewards and rules being so harsh. I always say and have always said gravel off track (or bumps) means you have to stay on the race track.

Anyway decent race and good effort from Verstappen. 16th to 3rd (4th) is fantastic and he was feisty all day

[truefan72]

I actually do think the penalty for max was unduly harsh. just before he tried to pass bottas and bottas went off the track and came on, necessitating verstappen to reset and pass him later in the lap. nothing was done about that and nothing should have been done with his pass to kimi.

[The Black Knight]

Damn. Max is getting penalized for a brave pass. Tough. Vettel should have nothing to say since kimi let him waltz bye.

Once again idiotic inconsistency by the Stewards and Charlie. Cars running wide all race and nothing done to them, then Max gets a penalty. It's the inconsistency of all this that gets on my tits.

I'll say it again, Charlie needs to go and the whole Stewarding system needs to be rethought out as at the moment it very much is not working.

Congratulations to Mercedes - thoroughly deserved win. Amazing team with one of the best ever drivers at the helm. Hamilton should be WDC by this time next week barring some weird force of nature.

My driver of the day is Sainz. Had a great reault of 7th after an awful start. Bet he'll get a podium before Hulkenberg 😂😂😂

[Duncan]

Impressive drive by Hamilton. Bottas couldn't do anything with the same car...
Vettel stays alive, but barring 3 wins for him and 3 DNFs from Hamilton it's pretty much all over at this point.

Amazing drive from Max, and also from Sainz. Interesting that with all the talk about what a great driver Hulk is, Sainz showed the kind of form he did today in his first outing in the car. Sainz > Hulk >> Palmer. Next season should be interesting if Renault can fix their reliability issues.

[AndyL]

Another tidy job by Ocon, 16 points finishes out of 17 races for him.

Lewis is 66 points ahead with 75 on the table now, all but home and dry.

[airshifter]

Overall a good race, and plenty of good clean side by side stuff as well as some longer term battles through the field.

I'm still not sure why the late stops opted for Super Softs rather than the Ultra Softs, but then again I don't have piles of data when watching. Great charge by Max through the field, it was amazing how quick he was in the top half of the pack. In the end, the penalty was fair, but with another lap or two he would have had Kimi and maybe Seb as well.

Good to see Sainz do so well in the new ride, and I think his potential will show much greater in the Renault. The usual whining by Perez even though he continued after Ocon got by and Kvyatt was hounding him. Bottas is still struggling to keep the pace up on certain tracks, but for a change it looked like Kimi might have actually had pace on Seb over the race distance. Shame for Ricciardo to have the engine let go, as I think he was still in the hunt for a podium possibly.

The power advantage of the Mercedes still seems there, but Lewis is getting a lot more out of the car in the handling. That good start by Seb was really just a delay to the inevitable IMO. Lewis has been on a charge and driving solid, and lately getting more out of the car than it seems like it has in it. Barring any multiple DNF scenario, the title is over with IMO. But Mercedes made the car great again this year, and Lewis pulls everything out when it matters, so good on them both.

[Big Ben]

I'm not that sure Verstappen's penalty was undeserved. In the last 3 corners before overtaking he was more off track than on it. In the last 2 it looked like he went off track with all wheels, and the one before that he was like over 90% off track. I love a sensational finish like everyone else but I don't want it any cost. I agree with the idea that they should just put gravel traps and drivers will make more of an effort to avoid cheating. Right now the temptation to push the boundaries of the track is just too big. On one hand there's the pressure that others might be doing it too and on the other there's no damage going off track

[zako85]

I recall two things from this race. First, Perez is whining on the radio like some kind of a prom queen that the team should let him pass teammate Ocon. In reality, in this race he was not good enough to either pass his teammate or defend from Sainz. Once again Perez is beaten by his teammate. Second, Max Verstappen starting from the back of field and finishing in the 3rd or 4th place (whatever), it was still pretty amazing.

[Bagwan]

I don't like it that they are allowed off track during the race at all , but most of these transgressions had drivers giving back the positions , if position was gained , as far as I saw , so , the stewarding we have been seeing is getting the point across to the drivers , and the self-policing of these situations is pretty common .

However , when the position gained is one on the podium , and one with so much weight in the championship , and , in particular , on the last lap , one needs to take extra care in deciding who was in the right .
Because of the rush of getting drivers in place for the podium , and the last moment replacement of the third place man , it all seemed like there wasn't much thought put in about it all , so the decision got an immediate "knee-jerk" feel , and the roar of "Max was robbed" rang out .

But , this time , I think they got it right because he left the track completely , and , most importantly , on the inside of the corner .
Had he been even 6 inches to the left , he would have had rubber on the track while making that pass for third .
That would have had him keep the place , despite being only two inches still on the track surface .

When they measure the width of a track , do they add double the width of the car minus , let's say , half an inch for each side to represent how much tire might actually be on track ?

[Luijbregts]

Why was 1435 this not penalised then?

[Bagwan]

Why was 1435 this not penalised then?

Did they bring it to the attention of the stewards ?

[Luijbregts]

Yes. It was under investigation. No further action!

[onemanband]

I think the main argument may be that Sainz finished behind Ocon - so that move had no lasting advantage.

[Luijbregts]

That is not the point at all. At that exact moment it is advantage gained. The point is consistency in handing out penalties. And what happened to letting a driver explain himself after the race to the stewards as agreed upon. Also out the window! Hamilton drove to pole with 4 wheels off track, no penalty either. Just 2 examples of gained advantages without consequences. I am just trying to say it is strange, also if the penalty is/was correct or not. I believe firmly that racing needs to be rewarded not punished.

[Jag_Warrior]

By what I've read so far, it wasn't Garry Connelly (the man whose first name starts with "G") who made the call. Did Max have evidence that it was him (this time), or did he just make that assumption based on a past penalty call? And is there some past history between Connelly and the Verstappens that we don't know about?

[Bagwan]

Fair points .

I think , in both cases where the drivers , Max and Carlos , had room enough to be classified as on track , that both should face the same punishment .
In Max's case , five seconds added made for an exchange of those positions .
In Carlos's case , the position was lost anyway , so a warning , which is essentially what an investigation ends up being in this case , should suffice .
Had he not ended up behind Ocon , I would expect him to have copped that five seconds , too .
I'd hope so , anyway .

[driveace]

Thought one of the stewards was Mika Salo ,a Finn and ex Ferrari man
Is this odd ?

[Mia 01]

Nothing wrong with the Stewards decision, Max cut the corner and passed Kimi completely off track.

[COD]

Thought one of the stewards was Mika Salo ,a Finn and ex Ferrari man
Is this odd ?

Also ex-teammate and friend of Jos Verstappen. Curious

[schmenke]

...
However , when the position gained is one on the podium , and one with so much weight in the championship , and , in particular , on the last lap , one needs to take extra care in deciding who was in the right ....


I think this is the reason for the penalty. If the incident would have occurred earlier in the race Verstappen may have gotten away with it, or at worst, been forced to relinquish the position back to Kimi. But this was not possible on the last lap, with only a couple of corners to go.

[Bagwan]

I think this is the reason for the penalty. If the incident would have occurred earlier in the race Verstappen may have gotten away with it, or at worst, been forced to relinquish the position back to Kimi. But this was not possible on the last lap, with only a couple of corners to go.

It certainly looked like Max had no idea he had done anything wrong and was happy to be on the podium , so I'm not so sure that he would have given the position back anyway , at least not without direction from the team , and there was no time for that , as you mentioned .
Kimi didn't look like he was expecting to be on the podium , either , and looked rather embarrassed as Max was escorted out .

They seemed to both think it was just hard racing , with neither expecting that outcome .

But , the protest must have come only moments after the incident , with video evidence , cut and dried , for it to have been decided in such a short time .

Max made a mistake of an inch or two too right , and left the track .
Kimi was right on the left , and never left the track , but was left in fourth when Max left right .
Then , the stewards did right , and gave Max five , Max fourth and Kimi third .

[Warriwa]

Max made a mistake of an inch or two too right , and left the track .
Kimi was right on the left , and never left the track , but was left in fourth when Max left right .
Then , the stewards did right , and gave Max five , Max fourth and Kimi third .


Stop making me laugh. You funny baggy.

[Bagwan]

Stop making me laugh. You funny baggy.

Me funny ha ha .
Me just tellum like it is .