2017 Italian Grand Prix

[AndyL]

Let's start the race thread shall we, first practice is out of the way already. Looks like a classic Monza two-by-two at the moment: Mercedes, then Ferrari, then Red Bull, then Force India. A bit more mixed up after that. McLaren were practicing slipstreaming and Alonso managed to pull Vandoorne to 9th on the timesheets.

I think if Mercedes don't take a 1-2 here, they'll be very disappointed.

[truefan72]

hmm. Vettel keeps running outside the lines in the parabolica

[AAReagles]

hmm. Vettel keeps running outside the lines in the parabolica

Time for another chicane installment.

[truefan72]

come on grosjean. ugh. he needs to stop whining. others made it through ok. oh well. red flag :(

[AndyL]

This could be a long afternoon!

[N4D13]

come on grosjean. ugh. he needs to stop whining. others made it through ok. oh well. red flag :(
Seeing as though he aquaplaned from the middle of a straight into the barriers, I reckon his whining was justified.

[Big Ben]

prima-donna... shouldn't a driver know how to adapt to the weather? He only knows how to push the throttle to the floor?

[truefan72]

this is pathetic by charlie and the FIA
we are missing the best window for qualy
soooooooooo frustrating!

what's the point of wet weather tires if you can't use them.
conditions are drying and the only reason we stopped was due to grosjean not coping with the conditions.

also, I am done with the mercedes safety car. it serves nobody as a measuring stick for F1 cars viability in the conditions
And for a while now, they are a bit too slow for the current f1 cars

They need to use a faster vehicle for safety car needs. an older lemans style car or modified F1 car.
You can still use that amg mercedes for medical/post crash needs and such. But a proper racing car would have informed them that the conditions were more than good enough to get qualy on.

[AndyL]

The TV coverage is reduced to showing replays of Vettel waving to the crowd. :rolleyes:

[AndyL]

come on grosjean. ugh. he needs to stop whining. others made it through ok. oh well. red flag :(

Helmut Marko agrees with you: "If Grosjean falls off, that's no reason to stop a practice session, because we all know Grosjean falls off quite often" :D

[N4D13]

It's quite surprising to see Vandoorne getting the best of Alonso in qualifying for only the second time this season. Then again, I think Alo only left the pits for the last six minutes - hardly the way to go on a wet session. I doubt he cares a lot since he'll be starting last anyway, though.

Edit: he's saying that they used old tyres and the engine in a very conservative setting just for the hell of it. Although he also said that he had engine problems at Belgium, so who knows... :p

[AndyL]

Yes there was no point making a serious qualifying effort for Alonso, given the grid penalty.

The new boys Ocon and Stroll have done an excellent job today.

[N4D13]

What an insane starting grid we'll have tomorrow. Hamilton, Stroll, Ocon and Bottas - whoa. And Ferrari are essentially nowhere at their home race.

[AndyL]

Should make for a very interesting race, if you can ignore Hamilton cruising to an easy victory at the front ;)

[truefan72]

qualy was well worth the wait.
stellar lap from hamilton,
well done red bull drivers.
stroll and ocon were superb.
special shoutout to vandoorne

Ferrari's where embarrassing and are lucky several cars above them are taking penalties to somewhat save their blushes.
the race will be good.

The start will be critical with both stroll and ocon in unfamiliar territory so lets see if they fair and hopefully have clean and good starts.
I got my popcorn ready

they really do have to do something about these penalties because it is robbing us of an epic grid lineup.
what a shame

[truefan72]

what is Diresta talking about?
Hamilton always does "just enough???"
lol, he blew the field away and has had some impressive poles.
seems a little bitter to me

and this was a record breaking pole in tricky wet conditions.
c'mon Paul SMH

[Tazio]

Some quali! A shame the R.B's are going to the back.Well done by Stroll, and Ocon. The Boss did the business, and Seb appeared to run out of talent between q2, and g3 ;)

[truefan72]

Some quali! A shame the R.B's are going to the back.Well done by Stroll, and Ocon. The Boss did the business, and Seb appeared to run out of talent between q2, and g3 ;)

indeed

[Bagwan]

Some quali! A shame the R.B's are going to the back.Well done by Stroll, and Ocon. The Boss did the business, and Seb appeared to run out of talent between q2, and g3 ;)

Yeah , Tazzy , how did the little pay driver do today ?

It's gonna be tough to stay there tomorrow , as it looked like that Willy had more downforce than a lot of the others , but he sure looked confident today .

The reds , on the other hand , look to be trimmed down for a race because they were nowhere today .

Merc may be somewhere in between , so it may not be as easy as it might seem for them to glide to victory tomorrow .


This one could be interesting .

[truefan72]

FIA is really botching things up. now the F2 race is being unnecessarily delay. they won't have enough light for the full distance.
SMH. it is amazing how they simply mess things up. this race could have started 10 minutes ago

[Tazio]

Yeah , Tazzy , how did the little pay driver do today ? I'm starting to warm to the guy!




The reds , on the other hand , look to be trimmed down for a race because they were nowhere today .Possibly, but I don't think so. Mettel looked perplexed when asked for the reason on TV, and said this to the written media:

The German reckoned set-up woes were not a likely cause of the disappointing performance - and dismissed suggestions that other teams could've excelled by setting up their cars for the wet conditions.
"You set up the car to go as fast as you can, and the classic rain set-ups don't exist anymore," he said.
:stareup:




This one could be interesting . agreed!

[Bagwan]

I'm starting to warm to the guy!



Possibly, but I don't think so. Mettel looked perplexed when asked for the reason on TV, and said this to the written media:

:stareup:



agreed!

You just watch . Those red guys will be quick tomorrow .

This is Monza , dude .

[The Black Knight]

Unbelievable lap from Hamilton today. He really has been driver of the season thus far. His qualifying is impeccable and his race performances are better than ever. It would be tragic for F1 if a guy that cheated and used his car as a weapon in Baku won the championship. Over half the season in and Hamilton is the only driver that stands out above the rest.

Ferrari were laughable today. Vettel starts 6th but we all know he is a net 5th with Kimi right in front of him. If he was a true great of F1 he would have at least been able to out qualify a useless Raikkonen.

Engine penalties are getting absurd now. Almost half the grid have penalties. Something needs to be changed in this regard for next year.

Not sure what happened to Bottas. He can't live with Hamilton in general but was miles off again today.

Gonna be an interesting day tomorrow. Barring any first corner incidents and, assuming it's a dry race without any failures, I'd predict Hamilton, Bottas and Vettel top 3 in that order.

Super from Stroll and Ocon as well. Was delighted to see Perez got shown up again today by Ocon given his behaviour in Spa. The gulf in class between the two drivers is really beginning to show now and hopefully the Perez hype train can be stopped now that he is being showm up to be the average driver he really is.

Donkey of qualifying without doubt is Grosjean. It was a lack finesse and skill that crashed him on the main straight. He went offline and aquaplaned, then immediately went on the gas again offline which caused his spin. You wouldn't drive like that in a Corsa in the wet, nevermind a F1 car. He is yet another example of a driver on this grid that shouldn't be in F1. It still amazes me he has been able to keep his seat in F1 given his performances throughout the years.

I see Danny Ricciardo is getting above himself with his 5 race wins stating Vettel and Hamilton are no better than him or Max. In the case of Vettel this is certainly true. I find this an interesting comment overall since Max has actually smashed Danny this year in qualifying and Danny has been super poxed to get the points and win he had in Baku. Had Max not had such an incredible run of bad luck I think he would be 3rd in the championship now and breezed off in the distance ahead of Danny. Danny is a top drawer driver but he isn't the cream of the crop. Max, on the other hand, is probably on Hamilton's level. 2014 showed Vettel isn't even on Danny's level. Without the car Vettel is nowhere really.

[Koz]

Any predictions on where stroll will be after lap 1?

[Tazio]

Oh spank!

[steveaki13]

Mercedes 1-2 pretty quickly.

Max again in the wars

[Tazio]

go ocon baby

[AndyL]

I think Massa will get a penalty for squeezing Max. [Edit: nope, no further action]

Stroll lost his 2nd place by being quite cautious on the brakes into turn 1, but who can blame him for that.

[AndyL]

Raikkonen's doing a good rear-gunner job for Vettel right now. No doubt Red Bull want to pit Ricciardo and give him a chance to chase Vettel on fresh tyres, but Raikkonen is keeping pace with Ricciardo right in his pit window.

[longisland]

Great pass from Ricciardo on Raikkonen. No lock up whatsoever. Equally great driving from Raikkonen for leaving enough space.

[zako85]

I'll be less lenient to Ferrari than the Tifosi who were cheering Vettel on his bottom podium step. This was a stunning loss for Ferrari, not only because Vettel arrived +20 seconds behind the second place Mercedes car, not only because Ferraris did so poorly in qualifying, but also because it all happened in Monza. Come on!

[The Black Knight]

Crushing loss for Ferrari. Love seeing Ferrari getting trounced on their home turf in front of all the Tifosi. Tis superb!

Top drives from Hamilton and Danny. For once Danny earned his position and didn't fluke into it!

Donkey of the race - once again it has to be Raikkonen. Passed by Bottas and his teammate. It's mortifying how bad he is. Surely if Ferrari lose the constructors championships they will be looking to replace him asap.

Great drives from Ocon and Stroll.

Found it funny Alonso complaining about Palmers move give how outrageous his move was on Palmer in Spa. Karma got Palmer but then it got Alonso back. Alonso is miserable at McLaren but tis all his own fault, he alone made his career decisions.

[AndyL]

Donkey of the race - once again it has to be Raikkonen. Passed by Bottas and his teammate. It's mortifying how bad he is. Surely if Ferrari lose the constructors championships they will be looking to replace him asap.


You have a real downer on poor Kimi! I think you're being unfair again here. He was passed by Bottas in a car that was probably a second a lap faster, and by Vettel under team orders.

[Zico]

You have a real downer on poor Kimi! I think you're being unfair again here. He was passed by Bottas in a car that was probably a second a lap faster, and by Vettel under team orders.


I think this is aimed at Mia more than Kimi.. :)

[Warriwa]

Crushing loss for Ferrari. Love seeing Ferrari getting trounced on their home turf in front of all the Tifosi. Tis superb!

Top drives from Hamilton and Danny. For once Danny earned his position and didn't fluke into it!

Donkey of the race - once again it has to be Raikkonen. Passed by Bottas and his teammate. It's mortifying how bad he is. Surely if Ferrari lose the constructors championships they will be looking to replace him asap.

Great drives from Ocon and Stroll.

Found it funny Alonso complaining about Palmers move give how outrageous his move was on Palmer in Spa. Karma got Palmer but then it got Alonso back. Alonso is miserable at McLaren but tis all his own fault, he alone made his career decisions.


I don't think Ricco "flukes" into his positions at all. Quite a few people tend to ignore the fact that a lot of Verstappen's "bad luck" is a result of him making contact with other drivers. He is still very reckless and it is taking much longer than I expected for him to mature.

[Big Ben]

Don't mind TBK. No-one is 100% objective but some have never even tried. He's one of them. In his world everything is black and white. It's all about Hamilton. The rest are all morons, douche-bags and whatever they need to be to make his idol look better. He will trash his team mates, rival teams, rival drivers, even Mercedes, the FIA, members of this forum, the rest of the world. It's nothing but rabid bias. I have no idea what would make someone attach like this to some distant figure like an F1 driver but then I have no training in psychology.

[The Black Knight]

You have a real downer on poor Kimi! I think you're being unfair again here. He was passed by Bottas in a car that was probably a second a lap faster, and by Vettel under team orders.

I'm willing to bet that Vettel wouldn't have been passed by Bottas as easily and if Kimi wasn't so slow he wouldn't have had team orders issued, he could have at least pulled Vettel along with him. He couldn't even pass Stroll and Ocon for half the race. How embarrassing for him. Poor Kimi, he is really being shown up now.

[Bagwan]

go ocon baby

Made me laugh with that one , Tazzy !

I watched an interview before the race with Lance , and he said Lewis wasn't afraid of what he'd do at the first corner at all .
I thought it a little odd at first , but , though carefully worded , I took it as a slightly veiled comment about Ocon being a guy they'd both have to watch .

Again , at the end of the race , he mentioned the two FI guys when asked about the touch with Felipe baby , so I think we can say Ocon has a solid rep for being a bit wild , so I'm not surprised Stroll gave in so easily at the start .
Braking into that much later would have been risking a really big and exceedingly ugly moment with all three , including Lewis , potentially involved . Ocon was never going to back out of it .

He might have been a hero for the tifosi at that moment , but he chose the correct career move in braking early .


Yeah , I was pretty wrong about the reds there .
They were nowhere .

[Tazio]

Made me laugh with that one , Tazzy !

I watched an interview before the race with Lance , and he said Lewis wasn't afraid of what he'd do at the first corner at all .
I thought it a little odd at first , but , though carefully worded , I took it as a slightly veiled comment about Ocon being a guy they'd both have to watch .

Again , at the end of the race , he mentioned the two FI guys when asked about the touch with Felipe baby , so I think we can say Ocon has a solid rep for being a bit wild , so I'm not surprised Stroll gave in so easily at the start .
Braking into that much later would have been risking a really big and exceedingly ugly moment with all three , including Lewis , potentially involved . Ocon was never going to back out of it .

He might have been a hero for the tifosi at that moment , but he chose the correct career move in braking early .


Yeah , I was pretty wrong about the reds there .
They were nowhere .
I was just pulling for Ocon because he is on my fgp ream!

[AndyL]

Made me laugh with that one , Tazzy !

I watched an interview before the race with Lance , and he said Lewis wasn't afraid of what he'd do at the first corner at all .
I thought it a little odd at first , but , though carefully worded , I took it as a slightly veiled comment about Ocon being a guy they'd both have to watch .

Again , at the end of the race , he mentioned the two FI guys when asked about the touch with Felipe baby , so I think we can say Ocon has a solid rep for being a bit wild , so I'm not surprised Stroll gave in so easily at the start .
Braking into that much later would have been risking a really big and exceedingly ugly moment with all three , including Lewis , potentially involved . Ocon was never going to back out of it .

He might have been a hero for the tifosi at that moment , but he chose the correct career move in braking early .

Indeed, Stroll certainly enhanced his career prospects. I still don't think he's a supreme talent like Verstappen, but the combination of performance with the sensible, mature approach that he showed in Monza would be an asset to any mid-field team, especially considering the financial backing he brings as well.

[Jag_Warrior]

Has anyone heard yet what issue Vettel had with his car? If I'm not mistaken, he's up against it with several components on his power unit, including the turbo (which I think he's been on #4 since about June).

So does anyone have the scoop on what the issue may have been, since he claimed that he had to play with engine settings to make it to the end?


T.I.A.

[steveaki13]

Sorry I haven't been around much lately guys. Been crazy busy with work etc.... Life changes without you realising it.

Not the most thrilling of races, but I enjoyed Spa. Two title rival drivers and teams. It is what F1 needs. One thing we have maybe lacked is Hammy & Seb having a wheel to wheel race without DRS involved. I do hope Hamilton & Mercedes dont run off with this now.

F1 needs an epic title.

Its kind of weird for me. Maybe it is the new rules but it still seems the racing is very tough without DRS which is not ideal.

Funny that this constructors fight is going to come down to the second drivers. Sadly cant quite see Kimi beating Bottas this season and so Mercedes should have an easy title. Their 4th in a row. Very impressive.

What will be very interesting is that Singapore you would think would favour Ferrari over Mercedes however Red Bull could be close enough here to get amongst it.

We are definitely in the position that a DNF could ruin the season such is the incredible reliability of the top two teams. Remember in the past championship rivals having 5 or 6 retirements each. Actually that probably made it more likely other teams were in the fight.

In the past the top teams retired because they stressed the cars more than backmarkers that were slow but plodded on and finished. It has now reversed with the top teams being bullet proof.

What do you guys think?

[steveaki13]

As for this race. Mercedes looked mighty and Hamilton looks composed nearly all the way apart from a trip onto the gravel.

Vettel did what he had too. Sadly Kimi had some damage or poor form letting Red Bull beat him. Ricciardo was sensational from further back. That move on Kimi was very good.

Ocon keeps impressing and ran high until the pace of the better cars proved too much. With DRS it is impossible to defend like in the past. Stroll also did well but some how again 2nd to 7th feels disappointing. Even though again these days he has no chance of defending faster cars. That's one art that is sadly missed by me in modern F1.

Massa was good and Max recovered well.

[airshifter]

Sadly Monza is such a power track that nobody really had a chance to touch Mercedes. Though both Lewis and Bottas did their jobs, nothing surprising about a Mercedes 1-2 at this track.

Some good drives farther back in the pack though. Great dive by Ricciardo to make the move on Kimi, and tire strategy that got him up their for the shot at it. Ocon and Stroll both managed really good drives and stayed on a good race pace throughout. Seb had to fight to get the Ferrari up on the podium, but really had no chance at anything better. If anything he was lucky the RB/Ricciardo strategy didn't come closer to him at race end.

Easy points for Mercedes, but I suspect that at Singapore they are going to be harder earned. To be honest, even though I love the history of Monza, it's a boring track and the action is much better at most races. I really only watch hoping a Ferrari can manage a podium, and they did.

[AndyL]

Singapore should favour Ferrari more surely. I just hope this championship doesn't get decided on engine penalties. Apart from Williams and Force India, everyone is on their last one of something or has had penalties already. Ferrari are in slightly better shape than Mercedes on that front right now.

[driveace]

I think Hamilton spoiled Ferrari,s 70th celebrations today Stellar performance from Mercedes in the race at Monza .Just bad sportsmanship on the side of the Tifosi to boo Hamilton on his win I dont think a British crowd would be booing Vettel on a win at Silverstone .Some you win some you lose ,and the Red cars were way off the mark in this race Probably they will come good in the next race,but I hope Hamilton has got the bit between his teeth now and pushes on Why did Vettel not get interviewed by Brundle ,why Jean Alesi ?
Vettel blamed a power loss or fault with his car for under performing ,but he also under performed on qualifying on Saturday too Just feel that Max is reckless and maybe overdrives the car as he feel,s he is in a inferior car but Ricciardo has a better feel for the car

[gm99]

Just bad sportsmanship on the side of the Tifosi to boo Hamilton on his win I dont think a British crowd would be booing Vettel on a win at Silverstone .

Well, the British crowd had no problem booing Rosberg at Silverstone last year, but maybe Vettel is better liked ;)

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/342025/hamilton-unhappy-with-rosberg-booing/

[journeyman racer]

Don't mind TBK. No-one is 100% objective but some have never even tried. He's one of them. In his world everything is black and white. It's all about Hamilton. The rest are all morons, douche-bags and whatever they need to be to make his idol look better. He will trash his team mates, rival teams, rival drivers, even Mercedes, the FIA, members of this forum, the rest of the world. It's nothing but rabid bias. I have no idea what would make someone attach like this to some distant figure like an F1 driver but then I have no training in psychology.

Ricciardo is a threat for the Hamo fanboys. Not for the championship, like Rosberg had been since 14. But for popular opinion that, accounting for the cars they drive, he may be the best driver in F1 atm.