View Full Version : Super Special Stages ?
Let's talk about them in a separate thread, so what's your opinion about them ? You like them ? are they good for rallying, and for rallyfans ? Have you spectated any ? Have you enjoyed ? Should they stay or go ?
Discuss :D
L5->R5/CR
5th May 2007, 07:23
Having a silly stadium thing close to the rall HQ was fine.
Having to transit a couple hundred K on Thursday and Sunday night was OK.
Having to travel HOURS for 2.2km for a pocket fest is just plain stupid.
GO! They have nothing to do with rallysport
gloomyDAY
5th May 2007, 07:47
Go! I caught the SSS in Leon, Gto. The running was impressive but pointless.
amberie
5th May 2007, 08:15
Stay, if they're done right.
I think 1 sss/event would be ok, because it's easy for teams and drivers to bring their sponsors and sponsors guests to there, bur now the amount of sss are too many, and taking the sss many 100 km away from the competition area is plain stupid.
Livewireshock
5th May 2007, 09:09
They do add an extra pizazz when done properly. When it was introduced at the Rally Australia it was beside the service park. To hold it 750km away was just a disaster waiting to happen.
They are necessary to bring the rally action closer to the people but more importantly it brings it closer to the corporate dollar backing the sport.
Staying only out in the forests & rural areas, the sponsors have a harder time showing off the event to their clients & guests.
It should be looked at as just another facet of rallying life. Alot of drivers love them & like the atmosphere at some.
Maui J.
5th May 2007, 09:28
IMO they should stay, but of course in the town or city hosting the rally.
As said above it does bring the crowds in, which is good for the sponsors, car companies, tyre companies and so on. Which of course is good for the sport. Remembering as far as the works teams are concerned this is a marketing tool for their cars, it's this or a painted sign on the edge of a football field or a TV ad. I know what I would rather have.
Side by side racing does give a real instant competitive feel to a sport that relies on stopwatches for its results.
I don't mind one or two SSS per event, just as long as the real rally stays out in the forests/farm roads/back roads etc.
This Argentinian cock-up will hopefully prevent other organisers from trying to do a similar thing. As I said in another thread... Keep It Simple.
AlfaWRC
5th May 2007, 09:29
WRASS - World Rally Against Super Stages!
I don't see the point the super stages bring the action closer to the people. There are less and less people at all the Super Stage from year to year. And the people you meet there you often also meet out there on the Stages in the forests. That's my experience from Rallyes throughout the world....
Furthermore they are seldom shown in the TV....
I am absolutely against them!
Priorat
5th May 2007, 09:42
I don't like them. I've never been to one and never will be.
What I like most is to see rally cars driven fast across beautiful landscapes around the world.
I don't even like spectator areas which are plenty of signs of forbidden and permitted points. They destroy the scenary around the car.
TMorel
5th May 2007, 10:15
The disabled access in a SSS is better than at most regular stages, plus it's nicer for the sponsors in their fancy suits / high heels than plodding through a forest.
If done properly, I've no real objection to an SSS opening/closing the event.
To be honest, I've got more issues with the rest of the event but then I'm probably still wearing my rose tinted glasses and remembering the good ol'days of Ari and Alen etc
Go, SSS have nothing to do with rallying...
Wim_Impreza
5th May 2007, 11:36
Pino said already my opinion.
2 sss per event are ok.....its also a good way for new people to come and meet the sport...
I like the SSSs like NZ had last year and Norway this year - normal stage, just a little shorter and more accessible for spectators. Stadium stages are horrible.
Lousada
5th May 2007, 11:50
Go! It would be cheaper to just rent a bunch of busses, and provide easy transport from every major city nearby, right to the heart of the stages. That way you show people truely what rallying is, and you show them how they can view the rally on their own. Or at least make a simple, short, spectatorstage. You know, closed roads, one car at a time, race against the clock. At least that is rallying. Oh, and only open an event with a Spectator stage, don't close it with a Spectatorstage please.
If you want to watch WRC(-like) cars competing head to head, go watch Rallycross.
Elgin Man
5th May 2007, 11:52
I wouldnt mind them if they were close to Rally HQ and were after the event just as a bit of fun.
ShiftingGears
5th May 2007, 12:45
Get rid of the stadium stages, they're stupid. And if they're built specifically for a rally event I think it's missing the point of rallying.
Up until recently, SSS were ok, they were close to the service park, they weren't in a stadium etc etc. Now, they've gone too far. The idea of a SSS is to give access to people who wouldn't otherwise go into the middle of a forest to watch cars.
FF-fan
5th May 2007, 15:50
Go, they have nothing to do with rallying.
L5->R5/CR
5th May 2007, 16:01
WTF?
23 to 20 to stay?
klm-607
5th May 2007, 16:01
GO! SSS do nothing but "dumb down" the sport, & take away from the overall
point of rallying. It's like "NASCARizing" Rallying. NO THANKS! True Rally fans will trek anywhere & evreywhere to watch the sport, & in any weather!
Go, SSS have nothing to do with rallying...
It depends. If you're talking about rallying 10 years ago, then you're right.
But we are in 2007, rallying needs sponsors and need to go to the "ordinary" people that are not true rally fans, all this effort to give ROI to the sponsors. On this Poit of view the SSS are welcome, but without stupid ideias as the SSS in Buenos Aires 750km away from the HQ. Another dumb ideia would be to have more than 2 or 3 SSS in a rally. Rallying is on the roads, SSS are a kind of extra value to the events.
Micke_VOC
5th May 2007, 19:39
One SSS per leg is ok, if they are near the rally area....
Its good for the sponsors, "new public" and media.
Brother John
5th May 2007, 21:00
GO! They have nothing to do with rallysport!
If you want a SSS It must not be in a stadium!
If you want to see SSS then move to rallycross!
Jaanus
5th May 2007, 21:16
I voted for stay for the same reason many have pointed out. Without sponsors rally would not exist like it does today and many privateers would stay at home. The SS stages are important for sponsors and the casual fans who don't have the possibility to go to the forest. They do not do any harm for the sport and don't blame the Argentina fiasco on SSS, the problem is the organisation and their stupid decision to move everyone 700 kilometers and back again.
2 sss per event are ok.....its also a good way for new people to come and meet the sport...
each leg one. The rest of your quote: :up:
Lousada
5th May 2007, 23:06
Precisely which sponsors are we talking about? Every WRC-car, except Henning Solberg, is sponsored by a car-manufacturer and/or companies that are directly related to cars, for example fuel. These sponsors will sponsor in the WRC no matter what, simply because it's so closely linked to their own business.
Okay, Munchis make ice-cream, but they are selfsponsored so it's not an actual sponsorship. Stobart is a transport company, but they are also not really sponsoring since they set-up their own team. I can't believe they would quit their activities if Superspecials were banned. Now Expert is a little special, they sponsor a driver who doesn't even like Superspecials.
Also how many spectators visit a SSS on average, say 25000. Now many of these are already rallyfans who visit, or would visit a stage anyway, so the actual 'new' spectators is much less. What do you introduce them too? Not rallying, because a Superspecial has little to do with a real rally stage. The rallycars? Well not really, you see them drive, but not at all on their full potential. Tell me, what?
If you really want to introduce people to the sport, try making decent TV-shows that are broadcasted at proper hours on proper channels.
Precisely which sponsors are we talking about? Every WRC-car, except Henning Solberg, is sponsored by a car-manufacturer and/or companies that are directly related to cars, for example fuel. These sponsors will sponsor in the WRC no matter what, simply because it's so closely linked to their own business.
Okay, Munchis make ice-cream, but they are selfsponsored so it's not an actual sponsorship. Stobart is a transport company, but they are also not really sponsoring since they set-up their own team. I can't believe they would quit their activities if Superspecials were banned. Now Expert is a little special, they sponsor a driver who doesn't even like Superspecials.
Spot on :up:
As for my opinion, move SSS.
VAT205
5th May 2007, 23:28
I voted for go, the stadium "ROC-like" SSS are boring and theres no need for codrivers so therefore its not rally. Theres nothing "super" about super specials, you wont impress new peeps with that.
SSS are as exciting as the parc ferme, you see the cars, thats it.
Let them be. Just make sure they aren't held on some crappy stadiums.
People is talking without anu knowledge of what we are talkinga bout.
A SSS is an oportunutu to the teams make the same thing that F1 teams make and bring a lot of sponsors. An SSS near the service park and VIP Village is a way of team bring the VIP people to see the action, the persons who decide if they are in rallying or not! Is very dificult to understand these advantages of SSS?
Did you any time tried to understand why circut races have so much sposnsors? They are less expensive and VIP people that brings money can go there and spent a big day seing the action. Is F1 interetsing? How to explain a lot of yers of boring F1 with so many sponsors? This is explained by the media coverage but also by a lot of actions made on the padock near the action
Rallying needs more spectators, and in a stadium you have more than half of the people that wouldn't go to a montain stage. This persons are public and interesting to sponsors.
The modern rallying as a lot of bad things, but SSS is not the worst. Is better to focus on the really bad things than on the litle bad things.
xavier
6th May 2007, 03:16
The question is kind of baised. Like many thing it's not black or white.
SSS are completly not representing what rally is about. I know we all agree with that. But if i can help making the sport more accesible to people what would not follow the sport otherwise, there is nothing wrong with it.
So for me, SSS are okay as long as they dont require the whole rally to move miles away from the base.
The Buenos Aires one, or the Monaco one are example of ridiculous SSS. in Monte carlos this year, we , or the drivers, lost one full day of competition to drive from Ardeche to MC. that's iditotic. Last year GB SSS is probably the furthest you can get from rally base. It did not prevent a full 2.5 day of competition.
BA SSS was risky because of the weather. it was a gamble and it did not pay. The stadium as allmost empty and we lost 120 knm of competitive stages!
Overall, Keep the SSS as it draws more media attention and make Rally more accesible to some. but keep it to the actual rally location. Enough of these Stadium SSS!
I have been to many SSSs, none of which I have enjoyed :s I'm all for bringing rallying to the people....but lets not change rallying to suit non-rallying people!
GigiGalliNo1
6th May 2007, 05:42
Ok....for you guys.....is an SSS with two car competing against each other? Like Argentina and Rally Australia or one car on a super spec stage against the clock like NZ and Monte Carlo this year?! I'd prefer to see stages like NZ, as it was amazing! One car on stage, so many advantage points to get photos and watch it and no one complains!
WRXedUSA
6th May 2007, 06:07
SSS's create traffic jams and are not competitive and boring to watch. And yes, they have nothing to do with rallying
Bringing the rally to the populous is a good idea (I think), but this does not capture the true spirit of rallying.
jparker
6th May 2007, 07:21
Well guys, why change something based on "I don't like it". If you don't like SSS, don't watch them. Just let other people have some fun. Personally, I don't enjoy them either but I don't mind them stay.
Well guys, why change something based on "I don't like it". If you don't like SSS, don't watch them. Just let other people have some fun.
I didn't say I don't like SSS, just I don't think we should change our fave Motorsport trying to suit non-rallying people (as J4MIE just posted) Rallying should stay as it is, if people don't like that way, too bad for them ! Anyway like J4MIE I've watched severall SSS, never enjoyed a single one...
The question is, exactly how many "non rallyfan" people visit these SSS? And what is the output of the sponsors on those SSS. The incident in Argentina can't have anything else than a negative influence on most of the people.
Let me put a question:
In the last two years, how many SS had live TV broadcasting and how many SSS had live TV broadcasting?
TMorel
6th May 2007, 14:16
I voted to keep them purely from selfish reasons.
Getting my disabled brother to a stage is nigh on impossible.
These stadiums mean we all get a day out - including my mom.
Sure, they know they're not seeing a proper rally (my bother even came out and serviced for me before things became the way they are) but they're there seeing the cars and enjoying themselves.
Now, maybe we should have had a different poll - one that took into account the incompotence of the organising team
GunsofNavarone
6th May 2007, 14:16
Let me put a question:
In the last two years, how many SS had live TV broadcasting and how many SSS had live TV broadcasting?
An even better question would be, 'How many of us (despite your negative stances on SSS) watched the Cordoba broadcast on WRC.com after they offered it for free this weekend?'
GunsofNavarone
6th May 2007, 14:17
An even better question would be, 'How many of you (despite your negative stances on SSS) watched the Cordoba broadcast on WRC.com after they offered it for free this weekend?'
I'll start. I watched it.
jparker
6th May 2007, 15:29
I didn't say I don't like SSS, just I don't think we should change our fave Motorsport trying to suit non-rallying people (as J4MIE just posted) Rallying should stay as it is, if people don't like that way, too bad for them ! Anyway like J4MIE I've watched severall SSS, never enjoyed a single one...
All sports have social aspect, yes SSS may not be true rally but every sport should be somehow accessible for ordinary people.
@ you and J4MIE, why do you guys punish yourself by going to SSS? Normally people who don't like something they don't do it ;)
GunsofNavarone
6th May 2007, 15:37
@ you and J4MIE, why do you guys punish yourself by going to SSS? Normally people who don't like something they don't do it ;)
True, but I still go to my job every day...
Brother John
6th May 2007, 20:05
SSS is for young boys ho never saw a real rally! :eek: ;)
GigiGalliNo1
6th May 2007, 20:08
SSS is for young boys ho never saw a real rally! :eek: ;)
haha true :)
pantealex
6th May 2007, 21:28
Thursdays SSS is better than no rally at all. Like "Killeri" here in Jyväskylä Finland
Will L
7th May 2007, 00:51
Some are good, depends when they are on
Like 2007 argentina, they shouldnt have started with a stage 700km from the next stage.
koko0703
7th May 2007, 00:55
I voted for keeping SSS. As long as SSS won't affect the rest of day, having one extra SSS at the end of the day on top of a proper day of rallying doesn't really hurt anybody. Also I think SSS is good for sponsors/VIP's of the teams/rally.
GigiGalliNo1
7th May 2007, 06:00
Quick question..... is an SSS for you guys two cars competing against each other or one? (like NZ)?
SSS is for young boys ho never saw a real rally! :eek: ;)
Yeah, in the past everything was better.
Old man :) time has changed. Before you watch rally, it was different then in your time.
We live in a dynamic world. So the sport is dynamic too.
Donney
7th May 2007, 11:41
I loved the old special stage in Portugal when they did the Estoril circuit. Other than that I understand the point of SSS but I don't think they are well conceived. They're basically, narrow, short and pointles in terms of competition outcome. Most of the drivers have more to lose than to win in those stages so they don't even really try.
I voted them to go at least the way they are now. Rallying is/was other thing.
GigiGalliNo1
7th May 2007, 12:04
I loved the old special stage in Portugal when they did the Estoril circuit.
3 cars on stage?! :D
Just make them more interesting and there isnt a problem with them. I prefer single file runs over slightly longer (but still short) distances, but a 2car special could be ok if more thought was given to it. In terms of putting them in stadiums I initially thought it was stupid, but taking these things literally as 'shows' its probably the best place for them. I've spectated at the old Silverstone Superspecial and Killeri. At both viewing was completely awful and I can honestly say I would have had more fun in the car park at Killeri 2005. So in that sense a stadium at least allows you to watch the cars and get more people there, sponsors, tv crews, whatever. I hate them because they have got lazy but there is probably a need for them. At least we take them for what they are as well as the drivers who dont try.
They dont convey what rallying 'truely' is to the masses but more and more rallying is shifting away from what it truely was anyway. This past few days has really brought that to our attention.
Thursdays SSS is better than no rally at all. Like "Killeri" here in Jyväskylä Finland
I agree, thursday SSS are OK. That doesn't screw up the rally itself. Of course, a good location is important.
Speedworx
7th May 2007, 12:45
I love watching them on tv. They need to stay. Rally GB used to be so great when it came to Silverstone.
I loved the old special stage in Portugal when they did the Estoril circuit.
The first SS WRC victory for Carlos Sainz in 1987 with the Marlboro Ford Sierra Cosworth.
In Portugal we had an important role in SSS. Estoril, Braga (only 2 years plenty of dust), Lousada, Baltar and now Algarve stadium.
jparker
8th May 2007, 04:54
SSS is for young boys ho never saw a real rally! :eek: ;)
:) It's the other way around Brother, but I'll keep quite now.
AndyRAC
8th May 2007, 10:04
Too many are the same, don't give the drivers a chance to fling the cars about. I'd prefer a short special stage, i.e a lap of a GP circuit, country house stage, small forest stage,etc.
turves
8th May 2007, 10:17
Just put my vote in and its now a tie on 43 a piece...
I think they should go. As read previously, I think out of stadium SSS are better than these crawl around stages at the moment, but I can see why they do them. I've only been to the Silverstone SSS, I don't bother with Cardiff. For disabled spectators they're very good but the only reason they would really do them is for a) attracting sponsors and b) the revenue. Having grown up with rallying though, it belongs in the countryside and not is a stadium.
One per rally to finish off the second leg I think would be acceptable.
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