Watson's failed Toleman comeback

[Jimmy Magnusson]

I found this interview with Murray Walker and John Watson not long ago concerning how Watson missed out for a drive with the Toleman team in 1985.

MURRAY: John, out of Grand Prix racing all last year, but back in the Toleman team this year... we thought. You must be very dissapointed not to be driving at Monaco.
JOHN: Yes, I am, very, because when I joined Toleman I knew the situation of course, but when they finally managed to get their tyres and go motor racing, I found it very dissapointing not to be a part - or not to be the driver - and here coming down to Monaco... It's a dissapointment. Being here as a spectator and not as a driver.
MURRAY: True to say that you've been frozen out by finance?
JOHN: To be truthful I don't know what the reasons are, because I haven't met people who are now involved with Toleman. I'm hoping to do that this weekend and establish some kind of clarification to what my potential involvement will be with the team as it now stands. But so far I haven't been able to do that.

Anyone has any more information about this?

[BDunnell]

I'm afraid I don't know any more about that, but how fascinating! Thanks for posting it. I had no idea about this, but then I was only six at the time. I don't think it's ever been written about in MotorSport or any similar magazine in recent years.

[ArrowsFA1]

I do remember Watson being mentioned as a possible driver for the team in 1985, a slightly unlikely choice as his F1 career seemed to have come to a natural end in 1983.

Toleman missed the first three races of the '85 season as they had had a disagreement with Pirelli who would not supply them with tyres, and Goodyear either couldn't or wouldn't help out! By the time Monaco came around Toleman had managed to buy a supply of Pirellis from Spirit, and had signed a sponsorship deal with Benetton.

My guess is Watson was signed by the original owners of the team, but he was not the choice of Benetton, who initially ran the team with Teo Fabi, and then added Piercarlo Ghinzani as the second driver later in the season.

[ChrisS]

I read in another forum that Watson had an offer to drive for Lotus but he was dating Ronnie Peterson's widow and didn't want to upset her so he signed for Toleman instead.

can anyone confirm this?

[BDunnell]

I read in another forum that Watson had an offer to drive for Lotus but he was dating Ronnie Peterson's widow and didn't want to upset her so he signed for Toleman instead.

can anyone confirm this?

He did certainly go out with Barbro, Peterson's widow, but I don't know whether this had anything to do with it.

[ClarkFan]

I read in another forum that Watson had an offer to drive for Lotus but he was dating Ronnie Peterson's widow and didn't want to upset her so he signed for Toleman instead.

can anyone confirm this?

Seems pretty unlikely for 1985, as Lotus had de Angelis and Senna as drivers that year. Doubt they would trade either one for a comeback on Watson.

ClarkFan

Watson was named as a Toleman driver, but only after a long battle to retain Senna's services had been lost. No other drivers were on the market so late in the year, so Watson, without a drive in 1984, got the call.

At the end of 1984 Michelin had pulled out of F1, and Goodyear became the tyre suppliers for Mclaren & Renault whilst Brabham & Ligier were supplied by Pirelli.

Toleman, the other Michelin team in 1984, was without a supplier despite having had three podiums with Senna.

At the time, it was implied the Goodyear runners put pressure on their tyre suppliers not to supply Toleman, especially Lotus who had just switched over from Pirelli and had been involved in a bitter dispute over Senna with Toleman, although there was never any factual evidence to support this.

The idea was that because Toleman had started to run well, they were seen as a threat to the big teams who closed ranks to squeeze them out of a Goodyear deal.

Toleman had run on Pirelli's in 1983 but had dumped them for Michelin at the end of the 83 season. I could be wrong on this, but I think Pirelli decided to take a year out when Toleman jumped as they had no decent teams to supply. Pirelli, it was suggested at the time, were very unhappy about this and, when the boot was on the other foot, were not interested in helping Toleman.

At the start of 1985, the only tyres that Toleman had were 2 year old Avons. Avon Catalog (https://www.avoncatalog.net) had pulled out of F1 in 1982 and didn't want someone to run on old tyres, claiming that Avon Catalog (https://www.avoncatalog.net) could not guarantee their safety.

For that reason, Toleman were on the sidelines and unable to race, missing the opening 3 or 4 races. Watson was their driver, but couldn't race.

Ted Toleman, probably frustrated by having guided the team into the top echelons only to be side-lined, sold up to the Benetton family, who were sponsors of the Alfa Romeo team (which scored zero points in 85 and hyad scored only 3 points in 84) and had obviously had enough of throwing their money away.

With new ownership in the form of a major Italian company, Pirelli decided to revert their decision and to offer a supply of tyres, allowing Toleman to enter the championship at Monaco.

However, Watson wasn't part of the plans for the new owners and was replaced by Teo Fabi, himself on the side-lines since Brabham replaced him with Francois Hesnault (which turned out to be an utter disaster) at the end of 1984 and, most importantly, an Italian.

Later in the season, Piercarlo Ghinzani was run as a 2nd driver and at the Nurburgring Fabi put the Toleman on pole.

At the end of 1985, the Toleman moniker was dropped and the team was re-named as Benneton.

Watson did race in F1 that year, as a substitute for the injured Niki Lauda at Mclaren, but with no testing and nearly two years out of the car did nothing but show that, as an F1 driver, he was over the hill.

[ChrisS]

Toleman had run on Pirelli's in 1983 but had dumped them for Michelin at the end of the 83 season. I could be wrong on this, but I think Pirelli decided to take a year out when Toleman jumped as they had no decent teams to supply. Pirelli, it was suggested at the time, were very unhappy about this and, when the boot was on the other foot, were not interested in helping Toleman.

Toleman started 84 with Pirelli tyres on the TG183B but switched to Michelin on the TG184 after the San Marino GP (The only time Senna DNQed).

[futuretiger9]

Watson's F1 career really ended at the end of 1983, when he was passed up by McLaren when Prost came on to the market. The one-off outing at Brands in 1985 perhaps indicated that a drive with Toleman would not have been such a good idea...

[BDunnell]

Watson's F1 career really ended at the end of 1983, when he was passed up by McLaren when Prost came on to the market. The one-off outing at Brands in 1985 perhaps indicated that a drive with Toleman would not have been such a good idea...

This was part of what Watson said on the subject of Brands in 1985 to MotorSport a couple or so years ago:

'I had done some sportscar races but I was single-seater rusty. By the time the race finished, if I could have done the GP over again, I'd have done a much better job. I had also gone from aspirated engines to turbos. One of my skills was overtaking, but turbos changed things.'