McLaren Testing Radical Front Wing

[wedge]

Radical upper-wing element design being tested in Barcelona today

http://www.suttonimages.com/fotoweb/posters/itvpreview.asp?DEH0730AP34.JPG

[Big Ben]

First of all, it's hideous. Anyway I hope it will bring some good results.

How far will they let them goo with all those wings? I just hate them. My opinion: they should just forbid them all except the front end and rear wing.

[Garry Walker]

Anyway I hope it will bring some good results.

I dont. LOL

[ioan]

Radical upper-wing element design being tested in Barcelona today

http://www.suttonimages.com/fotoweb/posters/itvpreview.asp?DEH0730AP34.JPG

I wonder how much it flexes! :D

[BobGarage]

not really that radical.

a.j. foyt ran a wing along the same idea in the USAC champ Cars in 1978!

http://members.aol.com/racepix1/ajmi78.jpg

[Viktory]

I wonder how much it flexes! :D

First thing I thought when I saw it :p

[blakebeatty]

not really that radical.


right, the mammoth tusk BMW Williams wing was radical, this this is just a slight tweak on the wing that everyone runs, it's a variation of the williams wing of today.

interesting design post-adrian-newey ...

[Hawkmoon]

First of all, it's hideous. Anyway I hope it will bring some good results.

How far will they let them goo with all those wings? I just hate them. My opinion: they should just forbid them all except the front end and rear wing.

I agree. Except for the results part, ofcourse. ;)

I think there's a point where the FIA will have to say enough is enough. If aerodynamic developments continue to make the cars a handful in anything other than clean air then they will have to be banned.

I don't know what effect this wing element will have on the McLaren. If it proved to make the car even more reliant on clean air then it should be banned now as sooner or later the other teams will copy it and the effect on the racing will be negative.

[DimitraF1]

this is a ''lets hope it works'' idea like bmw sauber last year , and the side tower wings back in 1998..hopeless moves!!!

[Gannex]

I think there's a point where the FIA will have to say enough is enough.

Whatever happened to the FIA proposal that total downforce be limited to a given number of Newtons? It was a brilliant idea, I thought, and the FIA had devised an elegant method of enforcement -- simply putting a scraper board under the car which only touched the track surface when the maximum permitted amount of weight was applied. Why was that proposal never adopted? It would have stopped the "downforce war" dead in its tracks.

[janneppi]

That looks like a re-evolment of Toyotas(?) front wigf nose combo

[Valve Bounce]

I wonder how much it flexes! :D

The upper element forms an arch against the sides of the bottom element, and vice versa. Maybe this will make it a lot less flexible.

[Hawkmoon]

Whatever happened to the FIA proposal that total downforce be limited to a given number of Newtons? It was a brilliant idea, I thought, and the FIA had devised an elegant method of enforcement -- simply putting a scraper board under the car which only touched the track surface when the maximum permitted amount of weight was applied. Why was that proposal never adopted? It would have stopped the "downforce war" dead in its tracks.

I get the feeling that the teams somewhat zealously guard aerodynamics as a way that they can differentiate themselves from their competitors. The F1 regs are pretty tight in most areas and don't leave a lot of room for interpretation much less innovation.

Aero seems to be one area that the teams can still be somewhat innovative and I think the FIA has been a little reluctant to press the teams too hard in this area as the FIA has been restricting them in a lot of other areas.

[Dazz9908]

I like it!
Macca are starting to think outside the box again and are getting good results.
The bull horns and now the Sydney harbor bridge front wing, they'll only keep us guessing of what they'll come with Next. Innovation=F1. Keep that way! :)

[aryan]

Whatever happened to the FIA proposal that total downforce be limited to a given number of Newtons? It was a brilliant idea, I thought, and the FIA had devised an elegant method of enforcement -- simply putting a scraper board under the car which only touched the track surface when the maximum permitted amount of weight was applied. Why was that proposal never adopted? It would have stopped the "downforce war" dead in its tracks.

Aero is the "only" way teams can differenciate themselves now.

Let me see:
Engine: practically fixed, rev limited, and standard ECU
Ground Effect: banned
Movable devices: banned
Tyre: standard

If they fix aero and downforce as well, they can just scrap the whole constructor idea and introduce spec cars. Is that what you think F1 should become?

[wmcot]

I'd rather see the FIA allow ground effects again (a reasonable amount) and leave only simplified front and rear wings to remove some of the aero clutter. I collect the 1:43rd scale models of F1 cars and they look hideous. The MP4-21 model looks like it was made from a bunch of bent-up pieces of a soft drink can! There is none of the grace and beauty of the 1991 Jordan, 1994 Simtek, 1995 Tyrrell, etc. By adding a bit of ground effects, I believe you would also see the cars running in closer proximity and probably more overtaking.

[Valve Bounce]

I'd rather see the FIA allow ground effects again (a reasonable amount) and leave only simplified front and rear wings to remove some of the aero clutter. I collect the 1:43rd scale models of F1 cars and they look hideous. The MP4-21 model looks like it was made from a bunch of bent-up pieces of a soft drink can! There is none of the grace and beauty of the 1991 Jordan, 1994 Simtek, 1995 Tyrrell, etc. By adding a bit of ground effects, I believe you would also see the cars running in closer proximity and probably more overtaking.


Do you have the pre-WWII Auto Union and the Mercedes? I reckon they are really beaut cars.

[Dazz9908]

Aero is the "only" way teams can differenciate themselves now.

Let me see:
Engine: practically fixed, rev limited, and standard ECU
Ground Effect: banned
Movable devices: banned
Tyre: standard

If they fix aero and downforce as well, they can just scrap the whole constructor idea and introduce spec cars. Is that what you think F1 should become?
We have that already That's Champ Car
F1 must be cutting edge and innovative,
MAX, Pull your head in!

[cy bais]

yeap - let F1 be innovative (and expensive too). If someone wants low-cost racing, then perhaps other series outside of F1 should be their option. :)

[jso1985]

I like it!
Macca are starting to think outside the box again and are getting good results.
The bull horns and now the Sydney harbor bridge front wing, they'll only keep us guessing of what they'll come with Next. Innovation=F1. Keep that way! :)


:up: :)
what I don't understand is that some fans complain that f1 is boring, yet when a team tries some innovation, then the car ugly and should be banned,erm then what? :mark:

[Roamy]

not really that radical.

a.j. foyt ran a wing along the same idea in the USAC champ Cars in 1978!

http://members.aol.com/racepix1/ajmi78.jpg

that car must have been quite a "Pusher"

[Sleeper]

Whatever happened to the FIA proposal that total downforce be limited to a given number of Newtons? It was a brilliant idea, I thought, and the FIA had devised an elegant method of enforcement -- simply putting a scraper board under the car which only touched the track surface when the maximum permitted amount of weight was applied. Why was that proposal never adopted? It would have stopped the "downforce war" dead in its tracks.
I dont know what happened to that proposal (in fact, I completely forgot it until you mentioned it) but I think its a great idea. It wont stop the aerodynamic inovation and development but it might intensify it as the teams would be looking to create the smallest possible amount of drag for the same downforce, basically looking for an even more efficient car than now.

[wmcot]

Whatever happened to the FIA proposal that total downforce be limited to a given number of Newtons? It was a brilliant idea, I thought, and the FIA had devised an elegant method of enforcement -- simply putting a scraper board under the car which only touched the track surface when the maximum permitted amount of weight was applied. Why was that proposal never adopted? It would have stopped the "downforce war" dead in its tracks.

Even with the "scraper" it would be difficult to enforce because a car with softer suspension would "scrape" before a stiffer car would. Even lower tire presures would be a problem. I'm not sure you could get an accurate measure of downforce, only ground clearance and that's what the jabroc plank does now. To actually measure downforce at speed, you would need some high tech electronic sensors and a lot of telemetry data.

[Big Ben]

this is a ''lets hope it works'' idea like bmw sauber last year , and the side tower wings back in 1998..hopeless moves!!!

Well said. Now that's been all clarified let's move on! DimitraF1 decided it's not working. what can we add to that????

Now... seriously. I think that F1 should be innovative but they should ban everything that is meant to keep the cars behind at a certain distance. That's catenaccio and it should be banned form F1.

They can still be innovative.... if they have more liberty to design faster cars...