From SPEED: DEI Could Switch Brands Next Year

[Jonesi]

Speed has a report that DEI considering switch to either Ford or Toyota.
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/nextel/nascar/37014/

[BobbyC]

If it happens, Junior won't be back.

[blakebeatty]

If it happens, Junior won't be back.

no no, if Jr. isn't coming back, that's when it will happen (by necessity)

[BenRoethig]

It sure throws a wrench in those contract talks. Personally, I don't think Theresa wants hims back. He represents a threat to her.

[harvick#1]

Jr will be goin to Gibbs, you heard it first from me ;)

[e2mtt]

Jr will be goin to Gibbs, you heard it first from me ;)

This is also what I would predict. (In fact I did last year at one point, so we DIDN'T really hear it from you first. :-))

[RaikkonenRules]

Coudn't imagine Jr. at Gibbs somehow.

[Erki]

4 races a year, Jr is a half Gibbs driver. ;)

[Cindy_AL]

Dale Sr would roll over in his grave if they went with Ford or Toyota. :s hock:

[RaceFanStan]

There is no doubt Ford would LOVE to get DEI with the blue oval.
Talks are currently occuring between RYR & DEI about some sort of a merger ...
it would fit if a merger occurs the nod from DEI would go to Ford ...
Robert Yates has always been a Ford man & he knows the Ford engines very well indeed.

I can understand Teresa not wanting to give-up a big part of DEI because she had a huge hand in making it happen ...
Dale Jr is showing some greed IMO & trying to cash-in on his name-card ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
If Dale Sr was living & Jr demanded 51% or he would walk, Dale Sr would call the movers ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
I think Teresa should do exactly that !
Teresa should tell Dale Jr to get off his high horse & CONCENTRATE on driving the car into the top 12 ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
Currently Dale Jr is 13th & OUT of the Chase for this year. :eek:

IMO Dale Jr has NOTHING to bargain with if he misses the Chase again ...
NASCAR added 2 positions hoping Dale Jr would get in but 1 bad race & Dale Jr is really out of it !

Another thing, Budweiser should look at jumping ship to RCR & get on the #31 car ...
Jeff Burton is currently 2nd in points & he will be a threat to take the Championship ! :eek:
Jeff Burton is a true contender for race wins & a good showing in the points ...
IMO the Cingular/AT&T fiasco would be over if a good sponsor came along.

[RaceFanStan]

Dale Sr would roll over in his grave if they went with Ford or Toyota. :s hock:
Just so you know, Dale Sr started in a Ford. :D
Goodwrench is gone & they used their sponsorship as much as they could. :s

(Just look at what Yates power did for Roush Racing, it could help DEI too.)

[Sparky1329]

Everybody has a price including the powers-that-be at DEI. For the right $$$ anything could happen.

[Alexamateo]

Just so you know, Dale Sr started in a Ford. :D
Goodwrench is gone & they used their sponsorship as much as they could. :s

(Just look at what Yates power did for Roush Racing, it could help DEI too.)

Also, He drove Bud Moore's Ford for a couple of years. After the Osterland/JD Stacy fiasco, Childress got out of his car and put Dale in it, but since he was just one step up from and independent and just starting as an owner, he couldn't afford to keep fixing wrecked race cars, so Ricky Rudd drove for Childress and Dale for Bud Moore for a couple of years until the CHildress team was on more solid ground. They switched in '84, and the rest as they say is history.

Yep, Ricky Rudd was the first to win in a Childress car! :D

[Cindy_AL]

I guess I was thinking that Sr was more of a Chevy man since he had the car dealership & all. But I know little about nascar history... thats why I cant play Muggles trivia game. :p :

[nigelred5]

I guess I was thinking that Sr was more of a Chevy man since he had the car dealership & all. But I know little about nascar history... thats why I cant play Muggles trivia game. :p :

A lot of drivers started with a different brand early in their carreers than they finished or drove for most of their carreers with. That doesn't change what their legacy became. Richard Petty driving and campaining Pontiacs after Chrysler left NASCAR was just never right. Dale was definitely a Chevy man.

Personally either scenario, Dale Jr driving something other than a Chevy, or DEI running anything other than a Chevy would have one HELL of a lot of NASCAR fans in a total uproar that would not go away easily. Dale will go to another Chevy team, taking the budweiser $ along with him before he drives a Toyota or Ford. The two assocaitions are as ingrained in his image as Chevy and Goodwrench were in his father's. I'll be curious to see if the number 8 goes along with him. NASCAR know's the importance of that association as well. Personally, the team was built essentially for him by his father, I think he deserves a substantial stake in it.

[e2mtt]

...Personally either scenario, Dale Jr driving something other than a Chevy, or DEI running anything other than a Chevy would have one HELL of a lot of NASCAR fans in a total uproar that would not go away easily. Dale will go to another Chevy team, taking the Budweiser $ along with him before he drives a Toyota or Ford. The two associations are as ingrained in his image as Chevy and Goodwrench were in his father's. I'll be curious to see if the number 8 goes along with him. NASCAR know's the importance of that association as well. Personally, the team was built essentially for him by his father, I think he deserves a substantial stake in it.

There is a lot more here then just fan associations - major sponsor dollars. There are a lot of dynamics; here are some as I see them.

Budweiser will follow Dale almost anywhere, Jr & Bud is one of the top sports sponsor deal anywhere, and will stay that way unless Dale falls off the map big-time. Budweiser would be fine with any of the big 3, there may be issues with an non-American car (Toyota).

Dale Jr. is more loyal to Chevrolet then DEI. If DEI went to Ford or Toyota, it is unlikely he would go along. (Maybe if the manufacturer really made him their #1 superstar, & built major ad campaigns around him, etc. - still probably not.) Dale is Chevy's top star right now, and the only way I see him leaving them is if Chevy decides to pull back and spend less on advertising due to economics.

I am sure the big Chevy teams: RCR, Gibbs, & Hendricks would all jump at the chance to have Jr. (likelihood in that order) Anyone of them could put him on their team without much trouble. (Hendricks would probably farm Mears out to Haas to stay at 4 cars)

Dale will stay in a Budweiser Chevrolet.

The # 8 is owned by DEI. I imagine DEI would sell it to Dale if he left, but if the price was too high or sticky, RCR owns 3 and has expressed a desire to see Jr. run it.

It would be a shame to see DEI crumbling along without Dale, but as a Jr. fan it is a shame to see him running sub-par cars compared to the top 3 Chevy teams.

[RaceFanStan]

Actually NASCAR owns the numbers & they allow the teams to choose them.
However the ownership of the number remains with NASCAR.
The 3 is available but who has the balls to use it ? :eek:

[jslone]

until it happens,I wont say crap about it.Its just talk to get interest in Nascar I think.Now for his Busch operation I think that likely.Not Cup.

[e2mtt]

Actually NASCAR owns the numbers & they allow the teams to choose them.
However the ownership of the number remains with NASCAR.
The 3 is available but who has the balls to use it ? :eek:

Thanks for the correction. However I know I once heard that Richard Childress still has #3 reserved, and continues to renew it. Suposedly he also told Jr. that anytime he wants to come race with them, it and a car is waiting. A few years ago that would have been a poor sideways move, but it looks like now RCR is elite again.

[Cindy_AL]

You got me curious so I did alittle investigating and found this article quite enlightening.

Here's a piece of it:


Car numbers and where they come from has been somewhat of a grey area for race fans. This is certainly not a secret subject with files being held in an undisclosed location but, as most things in NASCAR there is a need to know system in place. The rule book for Winston Cup covers most of this information but is not available to the general public.
Numbers were instituted in 1948 in an effort to distinguish between cars of similar makes and models. Early attempts at the numbering system were vague with cars displaying different sized numbers and even letters that accompanied the number itself. In this day and age when a new Winston Cup team comes on board and ventures down to Daytona Beach to the NASCAR office they will apply for membership. Upon approval from the sanctioning body the new team will pay a fee of nearly $ 600. This payment will allow the team’s owner to pick a number for the subject car from a pool of available numbers.

Another thought that came to mind during the interview was the issue of who owns the rights to these numbers. The team owner whom has been granted membership in NASCAR owns the rights to how the number itself appears. For example, when you see the No.3 or its likeness on a scaled model of Dale Earnhardt's car it is the design of the number itself that RCR owns. NASCAR owns the actual number but not the designed logo thereof. That has confused some race fans in the past because when you read the fine print on the box you will see that it says “the likeness of the stylized No. 3 design are trademarks of Richard Childress Racing Enterprises Inc. and are used under license. It almost makes you believe that RCR owns the number but that is not the case. An issue that came up recently was the idea that Richard Childress gave the No. 3 to Dale Earnhardt Inc. This could not be the case given the knowledge that NASCAR owns the number itself. RCR could not give the number or even sell the number to anyone.


http://insiderracingnews.com/jf091302.html

[BenRoethig]

There is no doubt Ford would LOVE to get DEI with the blue oval.
Talks are currently occuring between RYR & DEI about some sort of a merger ...
it would fit if a merger occurs the nod from DEI would go to Ford ...
Robert Yates has always been a Ford man & he knows the Ford engines very well indeed.

I can understand Teresa not wanting to give-up a big part of DEI because she had a huge hand in making it happen ...
Dale Jr is showing some greed IMO & trying to cash-in on his name-card ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/rolleyes.gif
If Dale Sr was living & Jr demanded 51% or he would walk, Dale Sr would call the movers ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
I think Teresa should do exactly that !
Teresa should tell Dale Jr to get off his high horse & CONCENTRATE on driving the car into the top 12 ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
Currently Dale Jr is 13th & OUT of the Chase for this year. :eek:

IMO Dale Jr has NOTHING to bargain with if he misses the Chase again ...
NASCAR added 2 positions hoping Dale Jr would get in but 1 bad race & Dale Jr is really out of it !

Another thing, Budweiser should look at jumping ship to RCR & get on the #31 car ...
Jeff Burton is currently 2nd in points & he will be a threat to take the Championship ! :eek:
Jeff Burton is a true contender for race wins & a good showing in the points ...
IMO the Cingular/AT&T fiasco would be over if a good sponsor came along.

If Dale Sr. was alive, DEI wouldn't be at the point it is now. Dale and Theresa had an understanding that he would make all the races decisions while she handled the business end. When he died, she took control of the racing end as well, something she has no clue about. In doing so, she destroyed everything her husband had built. Most of all she turned the relationship between with DEI from family business to strictly employer-employee. In my mind is just trying to restore everything Sr. built. To do that, he has to be able to control all decision on the racing side.

[e2mtt]

Jumping back into this thread & picking on an earlier post by NASCAR official RaceFanStan: :-)


There is no doubt Ford would LOVE to get DEI with the blue oval.
Talks are currently occuring between RYR & DEI about some sort of a merger ...
it would fit if a merger occurs the nod from DEI would go to Ford ...
Robert Yates has always been a Ford man & he knows the Ford engines very well indeed.

This would be a major coup for Ford, but as I said before, I think Jr.'s allegiance to Chevy is a lot stronger then his allegiance to DEI.


I can understand Teresa not wanting to give-up a big part of DEI because she had a huge hand in making it happen ...
Dale Jr is showing some greed IMO & trying to cash-in on his name-card ...
If Dale Sr was living & Jr demanded 51% or he would walk, Dale Sr would call the movers ...
I think Teresa should do exactly that !
Teresa should tell Dale Jr to get off his high horse & CONCENTRATE on driving the car into the top 12 !
Currently Dale Jr is 13th & OUT of the Chase for this year. :eek:

Here is where you are seriously mistaken. Dale has every right to be upset and want better from DEI. It was only 3 seasons ago (2004) that Dale had 6 wins and could have won the first Chase except for a late incident at Atlanta. (Contact with rookie Carl Edwards while running 5th). Teresa then broke his team up, gave his crew chief to Mikey, gave him the inexperienced Pete Rondeau, and the list goes on. Teresa does a fine job managing the souvenir legacy of Dale Earnhardt, but a racing manager she isn't. DEI has been in a slide ever since the 2004 season ended. As was noted here, DEI is now behind on engineering, equipment, and development compared to the top teams. It sure isn't from lack of sponsorship. I see his "greed" as him trying to get the team back to the top, without having to walk away from the team that he helped build and could one day own.


IMO Dale Jr has NOTHING to bargain with if he misses the Chase again ...
NASCAR added 2 positions hoping Dale Jr would get in but 1 bad race & Dale Jr is really out of it !

Nothing to bargain with??? What Dale does have to bargain with is: HE IS THE MOST POPULAR DRIVER IN NASCAR!!! Fans don't assume that his skill has diminished in the last 3 years, while the Hendricks drivers have improved. The fans know that Hendricks & Gibbs & RCR (& Rousch some years) just have better cars then Dale does.


Another thing, Budweiser should look at jumping ship to RCR & get on the #31 car ...
Jeff Burton is currently 2nd in points & he will be a threat to take the Championship ! :eek:
Jeff Burton is a true contender for race wins & a good showing in the points ...
IMO the Cingular/AT&T fiasco would be over if a good sponsor came along.

And here is where you show you also don't understand the sponsorship system. Budweiser sponsors Dale Earnhardt Jr. because he is a great spokesman for their brand, not because he finishes slightly higher in the points then other drivers. They also get extra camera time because Dale Jr. IS popular. Dale lives a lifestyle that works well with beer promotion. Burton is a great guy, a good driver, and a good spokesman for the right product... Burton does commercials for car insurance & safe driving!!! Jeff Burton is NOT a BEER spokesman.

Yeah I'm feeling a bit testy this evening.

[Alexamateo]

Excellent post e2mtt, I agree with everything you said except the part about Theresa breaking up the teams. If everything they said is true Dale Jr. and Tony Jr. were at each others throats and couldn't get along. They probably needed a break to learn how to work with each other.

Anyway, starting late last year, Junior been at the point of breaking out, but hasn't broken through with a win. I'd equate it with Kevin Harvick's slump before he broke out last year. (at least I hope so :D ) That said, I wouldn't mind him going to a different team at least for a while. It does a person good to work for someone other than family for a while, even if that person intends to come back someday. That's true even if the business they work in is racing :)

[Hoss Ghoul]

If Dale Sr was living & Jr demanded 51% or he would walk, Dale Sr would call the movers ... http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

IMO Dale Jr has NOTHING to bargain with if he misses the Chase again ...
NASCAR added 2 positions hoping Dale Jr would get in but 1 bad race & Dale Jr is really out of it !

Another thing, Budweiser should look at jumping ship to RCR & get on the #31 car ...


1. If Earnhardt Sr. was still alive none of this BS would be an issue. Jr. would have the cars and guys he needed to win, not this half-assed effort that DEI has become over the last 5-6years.

2. Disagree. He has just as much as he has now. Name, fans/popularity, etc...that won't go away with a bad year or two, especially if he leaves for another top ride. Also, NASCAR added the two spots because a. they're stupid and b. they're smart. In the last 2 years the sports 3 most popular drivers have missed the chase.

3. You're kidding right? Have Jeff Burton sell beer to 20 and 30 somethings...great plan. Probably the reason Coors Light kept Sterling Marlin too right? Kyle Busch, David Stremme, Dale Earnhardt Jr., Clint Bowyer, Robby Gordon(he's nutty/ballsy)....I see a trend here on the alcohol sponsorships.

[Hoss Ghoul]

OK, after responding to Stan I read the rest of this thread and see some of my comments are redundant.

However, I have not seen the most important point of all made, perhaps a series of points.

1. Why the hell would RYR be the one to force DEI to switch to Fords? For what? Some engine support? Let's be clear here, DEI would be buying RYR out. Perhaps they wouldn't sell, but the leverage is clearly with DEI here.

2. Most important IMO. Why the hell would DEI switch to Fords? They're junk. Anyone check the standings? Chevy owns NASCAR right now, they have the best car, a new engine coming online, etc. Why would you want to run a Ford?

3. Mentioned above by blakebeatty..."no no, if Jr. isn't coming back, that's when it will happen (by necessity)". Exactly. If this deal comes together as in this assinine rumour, then it is because Earnhardt is gone. Otherwise it makes no sense at all, and frankly I can't understand why it has gathered so much steam. Robert Yates is a known hothead and hasn't taken the last few(poor) years too well, his words are measured with grains of salt.

[Hoss Ghoul]

OK, after responding to Stan I read the rest of this thread and see some of my comments are redundant.

However, I have not seen the most important point of all made, perhaps a series of points.

1. Why the hell would RYR be the one to force DEI to switch to Fords? For what? Some engine support? Let's be clear here, DEI would be buying RYR out. Perhaps they wouldn't sell, but the leverage is clearly with DEI here.

2. Most important IMO. Why the hell would DEI switch to Fords? They're junk. Anyone check the standings? Chevy owns NASCAR right now, they have the best car, a new engine coming online, etc. Why would you want to run a Ford?

3. Mentioned above by blakebeatty..."no no, if Jr. isn't coming back, that's when it will happen (by necessity)". Exactly. If this deal comes together as in this assinine rumour, then it is because Earnhardt is gone. Otherwise it makes no sense at all, and frankly I can't understand why it has gathered so much steam. Robert Yates is a known hothead and hasn't taken the last few(poor) years too well, his words are measured with grains of salt.

[Jonesi]

OK, after responding to Stan I read the rest of this thread and see some of my comments are redundant.

However, I have not seen the most important point of all made, perhaps a series of points.

1. Why the hell would RYR be the one to force DEI to switch to Fords? For what? Some engine support? Let's be clear here, DEI would be buying RYR out. Perhaps they wouldn't sell, but the leverage is clearly with DEI here.

2. Most important IMO. Why the hell would DEI switch to Fords? They're junk. Anyone check the standings? Chevy owns NASCAR right now, they have the best car, a new engine coming online, etc. Why would you want to run a Ford?

3. Mentioned above by blakebeatty..."no no, if Jr. isn't coming back, that's when it will happen (by necessity)". Exactly. If this deal comes together as in this assinine rumour, then it is because Earnhardt is gone. Otherwise it makes no sense at all, and frankly I can't understand why it has gathered so much steam. Robert Yates is a known hothead and hasn't taken the last few(poor) years too well, his words are measured with grains of salt.

1. One possible issue, RYR is under contract to Ford though 2009.

2. Is 4th place Chevy any better than a co-number one Ford team? (BTW Chevy is in the 1st year of an updated cylinder head. Ford choose to wait until next year, so there should be a hp increase coming.)

3. Depends on how the deal comes together. Just as single car teams haven't been competitive for years, its clear the two or weak three car teams need to expand or merge to stay at the top.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Well, my rebuttal's to Stan's comments have been said before I got home to rebut Stan's assertions, and I will thank E2mitt and the other's who have pointed out quite rightly Jr. wouldn't be pulling a power play if Dad was alive because he would have the equipment to win with. There is a reason Jr. wants to own DEI from the racing side, and it is because as nice as Teresa is, she doesn't know the racing side and has been the boss while the on track performance has slid. Since Jr. is still a top 10 threat year after year, he isn't the problem. He has won more than enough times to be considered one of the better drivers in NASCAR, but there is NO ONE in the press box who would say the problems at DEI are behind the wheel. They all say the problems are in management.

So Jr. doens't get DEI? He wont be around to stop DEI to go to Ford's and it wont be an Earnhardt in a Ford. At least, not at DEI. Maybe Jr. goes to Roush.....

Here is the reality. He has the leverage because Budweiser knows Jr. is the best thing that ever happened to their NASCAR sponsorship. One only has to remember the lame attention they had with Craven or Dallenbach in the 25 with Hendricks with the Bud logo. NOW they get value for their money, and it is because of the popularity of Jr. Part of that is because his Dad's fans joined him, but part of that is also because Jr. has a charisma on his own, and the wins that say he is more than a fluke. Has he won a championship? No, and he may not. Heck, does anyone say Mark Martin is less a man for not having won one? In NASCAR, being very good is valuable, so Budweiser will ride the Jr. train wherever he goes, and if he went to a Ford team, the earth might wobble on its axis for 10 mins...but life would go on.

Personally, I think DEI will not go to Ford, and they wont if Jr. stays there. I personally think he will get control of DEI, as he should. I also think if anyone thinks he wouldn't be the most valuable free agent out there, they are on glue.

AS for the prediction up there that he is going to Gibb's, that wont happen. Joe is a good Christian and really would NOT want a beer sponsorship on one of his cars. HE once objected to Ed Hinton putting an article on him that would have been in the Swimsuit Issue of SI. I know he is also NOT a drinker, so I suspect if Jr goes anywhere, it will either be to RCR or possibly Hendricks.....I just know wherever Jr. goes, Bud will go....

[call_me_andrew]

AS for the prediction up there that he is going to Gibb's, that wont happen. Joe is a good Christian and really would NOT want a beer sponsorship on one of his cars. HE once objected to Ed Hinton putting an article on him that would have been in the Swimsuit Issue of SI. I know he is also NOT a drinker, so I suspect if Jr goes anywhere, it will either be to RCR or possibly Hendricks.....I just know wherever Jr. goes, Bud will go....

He already has Budweiser on the car as an contingency sponsor.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Andrew, if it is on one of Gibb's cars, it is for contingency reasons yes, but I suspect he wouldn't go for the whole car being Bud. Contigency sponsors cover most cars, and maybe Gibb's cant be bothered kicking up a fuss to keep the Bud off, I don't know. I just know that his pretty strict and forthright views on his personal morality I don't think would work with the Budweiser image. Understand I don't think Gibb's is wacky about this, and probably likes Jr. as a driver a lot, but I suspect he just might not want that Budweiser deal for one of his cars.

[djarumdudley]

Jumping back into this thread & picking on an earlier post by NASCAR official RaceFanStan: :-)





Here is where you are seriously mistaken. Dale has every right to be upset and want better from DEI. It was only 3 seasons ago (2004) that Dale had 6 wins and could have won the first Chase except for a late incident at Atlanta. (Contact with rookie Carl Edwards while running 5th).






tad off topic, but Earnhardt Jr still needs to show he is a championship caliber driver. championship or not he'll be monetarily successful his sponsorship value is astronomical regardless if he wins the title. but in the initial Chase he lost sight of the title going for the race win. the Edwards wreck at Atlanta was his fault, losing view of the bigger picture. it was much how Earnhardt Sr. lost sight at Wilkesboro in '89 when racing Ricky Rudd for the victory. if he backs off takes second he's an eight time champion. no one calls that race out as Sr. has the other titles to fall back on. the Atlanta '04 gaffe br Jr could be huge as he's shown little else for potential championships. at this point one would be enough to seal his legacy, but the rate Earnhardt Jr. is going that's going to be tough to come by.

[Mark in Oshawa]

DJ, I would rather cheer for a guy who busts his @ss trying to win than see a guy cruising for points. His dad won 7 championships, but he always went for the win if he had a car to win with.

Jr. wants to win. Period......it is NASCAR that has a points system that doens't really reward winning that hurts him.....

[djarumdudley]

i do agree i'd rather cheer for a recer than a stroker. hindight is also 20/20 when looking back at 2004.
as far a the points system, save for that 2004 seaxon it would require a lot of tweaks for winning to reward Jr with a title.
this is
Earnhardt's eighth full time season, but he's only been a title contender that one season. that year mainly due to the contrived Chase format. up until this point in his career Earnhardt has been rather mediocre at championship contending.

[Mark in Oshawa]

According to TSN in Canada, the little blurb they have http://www.tsn.ca/auto_racing/news_story/?ID=206550&hubname=

is that Ford admits they are up front about trying to steal DEI and people are interested from the DEI end. The question that has to be asked, is Jr. onside with this idea? The fact remains, Chev hasn't really done much with DEI of late, so you have to wonder what game is being played out, but with the way Ford and Dodge have not done much at all this year, leaving Chev would seem like a bad idea to me....